The Owlery Special Part 5!

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1:03dealer. You've probably seen athletes using those inflatable compression boots after games. Those are normatec from Hyperice. The massage gun everyone's carrying? That's Hypervolt. The heated vibration wraps for sore knees, backs and shoulders. That's venom. Together, they help athletes and active people recover, move better and get ready for what's next. Whether you're training hard or simply trying to feel your best every day, Hyperice has a recovery solution built for you. Visit hyperice.com today. That's h-y-p-e-r-i-c-e.com. Hyperice. Recovery trusted by the world's best. Welcome, dear listeners. I'm Jonathan Carlin. And I'm Benjamin Carlin. And we invite you to a special episode of Through the Gryffindor, also known as the Aulri, where we answer real questions

2:08delivered by a real novel. Yeah, so this is an available perk that we make every single week after each episode, each recording. We have people right in really, really good questions about the greater wizarding world. So it's not necessarily even just something related to the specific chapter that we've just covered, but they often go on to be really good inspiration for what if videos that we've done over on the Super Carlin Brothers channel, as well as just different ways to look at the series. This is really what I like to think of as the think tank for the Harry Potter world. It's like a concentrated spot where everybody has thought about it in such a different, unique way. And we work with you guys basically to come up with answers. Right. So what we're doing in this episode is that we have taken three of our favorite Aulri episodes from the past. And we just sort of compiled them here into one. So if you are not a member of the Aulri or a member of our Patreon, you can get a feel for what it's like. And if you've ever watched the show like on YouTube

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4:16Sarah says, hey, bruh, bruh. I have been thinking about the unbreakable vow. We never see someone suffer the ultimate consequence. It seems like a check-offs gun. And if you could choose a point where a vow is made, but goes unfulfilled, who? What? When? And why? Oh, this is a great one because yes, you're right. We see snake making unbreakable vow with bellatrix. Right. Does not come to pass. Right? Because the vows fulfilled. The vow is fulfilled. We also in crimes of Grindelwald see use if believe he is suffering the effects of an unbreakable vow. But in fact, he just has a parasite in his eye in his eye. And it's like, got him out of you. Got him out of you. That is what Kowalsky says in response to the weird little, I like to think it kind of looks like a serpent starfish. Yeah. Not to be confused with the brittle starfish. Right. Yeah. So the only

5:19the only thing to draw from that is like whether or not he believes he's suffering it because that is the kind of way it would work. Yeah. That's a really good question because like we don't we don't have. I mean, I actually really like the reference to check-offs gun there because it's like it feels like if you're going to introduce us to this plot device, then we should see it come to pass which almost basically wonder it's like are there any unexplained deaths in the series where it's like, oh, I wonder if an unbreakable vow was at play. Oh, it took place. So place, yes, yes. Or like, you know, at the battle of Hogwarts, like is, you know, is there anybody who you can make the argument that they didn't die in battle? But instead they like were killed by a broken unbreakable vow, something to do with like whatever their their combat was or something. I guess I'm like immediately trying to like think about Bellatrix in this way. Like if she like like in a way

6:22that like the unbreakable vow is what kills her not Molly, but like the act of Molly striking her in battle is what breaks the vow. Oh, oh, that I mean, that's really interesting because Bellatrix is directly involved. She is the bonder of the unbreakable out between our systems, Nate, obviously. And so like the idea that she is also like the victim like like almost as if Voldemort said like you will not fail me in battle or something like. And in that case, Molly has bested her. But like one of the things we've always felt about Molly killing Bellatrix, like, you know, we love that moment. It's amazing. But like there is a huge theme, especially like in those final two installments of series about like what it does to your soul to commit like that act. Right. And like both Draco and Harry extensive links are gone to to prevent innocence from committing murder. Right. And you know, there is a difference between murder and being in war. Right. And it's like she steps

7:25in in front of Ginny. So is it like, is it more a case of like protection than murder or something? Yes. Right. Correct. So then I have a couple of other different thoughts here. Just in terms of like if we look at the use of comma situation from Fantastic Beasts because like that is almost a situation where like, Nate is able to suss out that he is not actually dying, but that he has a parasite. But the question is whether or not the parasite would have killed him in time if that makes sense. Oh, so and all I really mean there because the other thing is that he believes the person that he is supposed to destroy is Corvus Lestrange and Credence's true identity is not Corvus Lestrange. Right. Like unbeknownst to you, Sif, the person he's supposed to like kill was killed by natural causes. Was already dead. Right. Yes. And in fact, I'm trying to remember whether or not he, yeah, no, he would have made the vow before the twins crossed, not the twins, the two babies crossed the

8:31Atlantic to go to New York, right? Right. Okay. Okay. Because I was going to say what wouldn't be crazy if he made the vow after Corvus Lestrange was already. Oh, man, that would be wild. Yeah. That would be wild. Okay. So but my point there and I feel like I've kind of caught myself off on my own tracks because I was going to say like, would the parasite have eventually killed him? Because then you could almost make the argument that like you were destined to die. If you break the unbreakable vow, like it's, it's not necessarily. Right. Like the parasite in fact was the unbreakable vow then acting itself. The parasite would be the manifestation. But like because what I was going to say there is like, reguluses death comes at the hands of essentially betraying Lord Voldemort. And I was going to say, do you see what I mean here? Like when you become a death eater, you, I mean, especially because the brand is made on your arm. Right. It feels like the kind of thing where you could have joined hands. And that's part of how like the dark mark appears on your

9:34person. Yes. But then this is what then Snape should have died from it a long time ago though. Right. If that was the case. Well, well, it's an interesting thought. He maintains his position all the way up to his death. He maintains his position, but he has betrayed him the moment he goes the Dumbledore. Plus, plus the silver hand, this is the effect of the silver hand. You're right. The silver hand does do this. That's what happens to wormtail is that wormtail is given a right hand back. And it would have killed Carcarov too. Well, Carcarov does end up dying. He does die. Yes. So I mean, it's okay. Okay. I think that the examples I'm trying to give the precedent that exists is probably a little too feeble to fully stack that. Sure. It just would not seem beyond the range of Voldemort to basically enact this amongst his followers because then it's a aggressively fear based reason to ensure the fortitude

10:40of his followership in perpetuity. I mean, I agree with you. It doesn't seem beyond him. And the regularist one I actually still like because like creature is able to escape. Like he tells him to like go home or whatever. Right. But it is abundantly clear that creature could have side-alonged regulus. That's true. Yes. Like creature not side-alonged regulus. Yes. Why doesn't he side-alonged regulus? Or why doesn't regulus tell him to bring him with him? Right. You know, like the reason could be because he knows that he has now broken the vow. And that there's no there's no saving him. And that there's no saving him. Right. So it's like it doesn't matter whether you bring me or not save yourself. I'm doomed. Right. Kind of thing. So with the thought here, just a clear clear maybe some pieces of it up is that like maybe not the dark mark in particular being an act of commitment to the outbreak of the vow. But maybe regulus in particular wasn't tangled in one. Yes. Okay. Okay. I think that makes sense. Right. I think that makes sense because

11:45yeah. But we also get a description of the inferior dragging him below the lake. Yep. Right. We do. So then you could argue that like we know that would happen either way because obviously Harry's not, you know, like they approach they do that when Dumbledore and Harry are there. So you could argue that it is the vow enacting itself or it's like I'm going to die because of the vow either way. But before the vow takes him the inferior, he just pull him under any way. Oh yeah. True. Right. True. Yeah. Basically, he's just like resigned himself. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, and I'm trying to remember the exact wording of a regular list's note. I think it says, I know I will be long dead before you read this. Right. It does say that. Which means that like he knew he was going to die. He knew he was going to die. Yeah. And not specifically because the note is meant

12:45for Voldemort. Right. The note is meant for Voldemort. And if it says, I know I will be long dead before you read this like would I'm trying to think of that matters. Right. Like he wrote down. I will be dead before you read this. Exactly. Like knowing that this was a deadly mission. What which I mean, in and of itself, it just certainly is. I mean, he's taking enormous risk. But like even having this is this is probably like getting way too granular in terms of like what would have happened. But like this would even suggest that Regulus would find the locket. He would consumed the drink of despair. Right. Yep. And then before collecting water from the edge, he would have written a note in the replica. I think he has the note ready to go before he leaves.

13:49You think he does. Yeah. But how would he know that whatever he was finding would would kill him would could tell. Does he know what's the locket itself? He because otherwise like, you know, if it was the cup, what are you going to do? Just like kind of stuff. I know, right. He's like, I messed it. Regulus made a copy of the locket. Right. Well, but he knows it's a locket because creature tells him because Voldemort brings creature with him first. True. Season, but the locket in. Right. So he knows there will be a locket. Yep. Right. Okay. Okay. Okay. That helps. Right. So he goes in knowing that there's the potential to do exactly this. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. That's interesting. So then the other example that I would want to bring up is the gallant of fire because it seems like this is the other magically binding contract. Yeah. That does seem to be invoked where it's sort of like one of these things. It's like, well, why does Harry have to participate? Like, why not just basically like fire the cannon for the dragon. Harry throws up a white flag and he just fails.

14:51Right. Because like for some comparison, say, you could look at the second task and say, that's pretty much what happens to Flur. Like, she, she doesn't complete it. Right. You know, so it's like, you could just say that that's the same as Harry not completing. Right. Like, yeah, is that the same or is that like, no, if it's planned, then that's like, it's intentionally against the spirit of the competition or something. Exactly. Yeah. So it's like, you could go in, try your best and fail. And that's a lot different from not trying at all. Right. To having a pre-play and surrender. Exactly. Right. Exactly. So and this is like what Dumbledore and I guess Moody are saying in that like chamber off the Great Hall where like Moody sort of times in a really barricaded dinner and he's like, it's like Dumbledore says magically binding contract. And it's kind of like, is that right or is that just like party crouched juniors trying to be like, yeah, of course he has to participate. Didn't didn't think about the world where maybe he just like doesn't do it. Right. Yeah. But basically what we've always said is that we believe if Harry did not participate in the games and in the tournament, he would die.

15:57Right. And yeah. And that's kind of like what has happened by way of being selected. Is that now, now you're in. Now you're in. Now you have to do it. Which almost makes me think that the piece of paper party crouched juniors uses almost had to come off of like Harry's homework or something. Well, which of course you could easily get. Which you could easily get us as professor, but it occurs to me that Harry almost had to write his own name. That might be the case. Because otherwise he has not entered entered. Right. Yeah. I knew we could just write anyone's name. Exactly. Right. Yeah. That's no good. I mean, it'd be easy. Yeah, you're right though. It'd be easy enough for him to just have Harry's name written on a piece of parchment rip it off the top. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. After paper potter. Sorry about that. Right. Of course he adds another school, but I guess maybe it doesn't matter if Harry wrote his own name. So true. Yeah. Yeah. What fourth school does he add? I know. That's a good question. It's like in my head. It's just like a lower one. Over one. Probably feels like it have to be. Although why the why the cup we even has the ability to suss out. It's like there've been, I forget how many tournaments like 120 or

17:01something. Yeah. I feel like Hogwarts is 164 and Bobaton 63 and right. Strings never won. Drums Drinks never won. Right. But it's like you have this like ancient cup. It's like why does it not know? That they just enjoy it. It's confunded then. It's confunded. Yeah, exactly. You have to be a very powerful wizard to confund such a large effect. But it creates a magical. Yeah. You're right. That does seem like another sort of um, unbreakable vow that they are stuck in. So this is just a just a question. And I bet there's nothing that before I say it that actually I feel like supports this idea, but just for the sake of throwing it out there. Cedric is a participant, which means his name came out of the goblet of fire. Is there any argument that could be made that like somehow some way Cedric agreeing to share the cup as the rightful winner of the tournament with Harry out of nothing but kindness is failing to do your best to

18:01win the game. And therefore, Cedric is now destined. Cedric, Cedric, the unbreakable vow kills him because he doesn't because of that. Well, because think about it. Like if you were to go into the lake, like Flora is not dinged. She's not killed on the spot. Yeah. For failing the second task, she went in did as good as did as well as she could as far as the cup is concerned to win the to win the tournament. Right. She failed in the process, but it doesn't mean she didn't do the best she could in the objective of winning the tournament. She's what I mean. So by extending to Harry, the option to tie when he got there first, right means that he has broken the spirit of the tournament. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. In the eyes of the cup, which is the cup or the goblet route. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the eyes of the goblet. Yeah, because they're reaching for the cup. So I'm reaching for the cup. It's the goblet that kills. Right. Yeah,

19:04presumably, presumably. Yeah. But I mean, I don't know. Like there's, I mean, that's that's sleep. That's slippery. That's slippery. It best. Yeah. That's that doesn't feel great. I mean, yeah, or you could be like, well, he, you know, I was going to say like he's breaking the rules because he leaves the tournament or something. Like he escapes the tournament, you know, sure. But they have the Harry too. So yeah, he doesn't die. He doesn't die. They'll not for a lack of being a hot dog. Or a lack of try. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. The goblet of fire is back in his chest. He's like, I tried so hard to kill that kid. That's right. No one, no one's going to point a finger at me. Okay. I did what I was supposed to do. I do. I put the kid in front of Lord Voldemort, right? Like, he tried to escape. That's the good rules. I launched a million spells. I don't know how he did it. Okay. Okay. Let me back up just a second. I don't think that this is exactly correct. But is it not the case that they stopped doing the try wizard tournament for like a hundred years because the last time the event was held, someone died. Right. Was it a contestant? I know the like

20:09charging chimera goes at the judges table. Right. I don't even know if that was that was just was that the last one was the chimera? Let me, let me see. I feel like I just want to take a quick look because I would like to get this detail right because I might help or hurt the argument. Why was the try wizard tournament canceled. Because I drink that. The try wizard tournament was originally discontinued in 1792 because of the exceptionally dangerous task resulted in unacceptably high death toll. It was briefly revived in 1994 with new safety restrictions, but was permanently canceled again after Hogwarts Damian Sedgert Degree was murdered and Lord Voldemort was resurrected during the final task. So like, I mean, that's a let's see here. I really want to get the chimera thing when they're when they're trying to find cases for buckbeak

21:10and they're like, oh, this is a chimera that got off and it was like, oh, it's because all the all the people were too afraid of it or something. Maybe you're right. I'm so sorry here. I got these websites have so many ads on them. Let's see if I can just search for chimera. The heads of the participating schools are always on the panel because all three of them were injured during the tournament of 1792. When a cockatrice, the champions were supposed to be catching went on a rampage. It's all in Hogwarts history. So cockatrice. Cockatrice. Yeah. So different creature. But the death toll is also interesting because I feel like it puts into consideration that like the spirit of the tournament in its very nature aside from the tasks themselves are the spirit of the tournament is in itself deadly. Oh, I like, do you see what I mean?

22:14Any circumstance for any participant in a previous games had they ever not like ex-perform to the best of their own ability. Right. Then they could have died. Then they may violate the contract. They may violate the contract. And that's the problem. The cup is like, it's like there's been too strict about this. It's being too strict. It's too literal. I mean, I know it sounds crazy, but there are a few other instances of this. You've got the room for requirement where you have to be very specific about what you ask it for. The house elves, you have to be very specific about how you give them direction as to like close necessary loopholes. And Gali, I feel like there's like one more of these that falls into the same branch of magic. I mean, I guess you could say like flu powder. You know, you must be very clear. Clearly, right. Get where you're going. Right. Right. Right. I mean, magic is imperfect. I mean, there's also just sort of like if you perform a spell wrong, maybe I'm thinking too much about

23:15Shamus in the movie, like with the exploding. Oh, yeah. Like whatever. I don't know. I mean, I'm kind of being silly here. Obviously. I don't genuinely think that like, saidric dies. Yeah. Because he's a fair human being. Right. Yeah. That doesn't seem right. It does not seem right. Right. It's like it's like a discredit to his death if he's killed by himself agreeing to be a good person instead of Lord Voldemort being evil. Well, and I think the two would go aggressively hand in hand with one another. I mean, I think because it's still like basically what I'm trying to suggest here really isn't even the saidric example. What I'm trying to suggest is that like do you just simply drop dead of your own accord? If you break an unbreakable vow or do you explode into cornflakes? Allah, infinity war or like, well, no, I feel like, yeah, you would, yeah, it's something like that. I feel like you would, to me, it feels like you would drop dead like immediately.

24:16That is how I've always interpreted it. Yeah. Because when Harry asks Ron, like, well, what does happen if you break an unbreakable vow and Ron's just like you die? And it's just like, that's all he says. Like that's, that's the whole of it. Yeah. But I mean, that's where it's also like, this is Ron who may know enough to know that's what happens in an unbreakable vow, but it's not like coming from like a textbook or even, you know, Hermione or something who might have like a more, right? Yeah, like a better answer. Who you might like even just like trust. Yeah. I mean, there's a like, when you make the vow, there's like those fiery ropes that like entwine your hands or whatever. Yeah. So I, to me, I like, I imagine like the fire like being like, you know, yes, yes, yes, that's true. That's true. I think we even compare the fiery ropes to like what, what Dumbledore uses against Lord Voldemort in the Battle of the Department of Mysteries because he like, lasso is him with like a fiery rope. Right. Yes. Like, is he trying to like, trap him in some

25:16sort of like deadly like like, and all right. Now we agree that you're going to be a good person from now on. Exactly. Yeah. Like crap. Yeah. Got me. Yeah. I heard me go to your die. Whoops. Oh, no. Yeah, that would be a fair. That would be a good one. That'd be a good one. Although would that even work then the being the Horcrux is still just anchoring him. Right. Right. Or wouldn't or would it just be like, nope, this affected all of them now would be unbelievable. Master stroke master. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. So it was the other part of their question just to see if I can't circle back one last time. Is there anything, any instance where we wish it had happened? Like, somebody who would be like a good victim of this. Right. Yes. Yeah. Like where, where would we put it in the story if someone like died from the unbreakable valve? Where would we put it? I could see like Ludo Bagman dying like that. Like if like, like when he made a bet with the Goblins, he made like a

26:16valve. Like I'll pay you back by the end of the year. You've got my word. I'll make them breakable valve or whatever. Oh. Yeah. Cause like Ludo doesn't really come up again ever. So it's like, you could have easily been like, whoops. And he's dead. Yeah. We just killed him off page. Killed him off page. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, honestly, that that feels like it's just likely. Yeah. Right. You know, how are you doing there? It even feels like kind of like terms, like like, you know, the Goblins kind of having like their very aggressive, like what it means to engage in negotiation with them is is like the interpretations are just fundamentally different. Right. So it wouldn't even surprise me. Of course, I do think it's a wand based piece of magic, which Goblins are not allowed to carry. True. But I suppose he could have had a third party wizard do it. He could have a third party wizard do it. That's true. I don't see the reason why that couldn't be the case. Right. Okay. Here's another weird one. Dumbledore requiring Petunia to treat Harry

27:17with care. Oh, that would have been great. That have been great. It's like you must make the unbreakable. Wow. Right. Yeah. It's like, be nice or you die or you die. Or you die. Or you die. It's so not Dumbledore. Right. Right. Well, you know what else is kind of interesting is the unbreakable. Wow. Like I think we've talked before about, or maybe maybe we haven't compared it this way before. So we talk about the Phadalius charm being a magic of trust and how it's like the opposite of like what the death eaters may do. Yeah. Because the whole idea is to trust one another. Right. I think we were comparing like Occlomancy and the Phadalius charm. Occlomancy and the Phadalius charm. That's exactly it. Yeah. That's exactly it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Never mind. Okay. Scratch my final thoughts. Got it. Yeah. Okay. All right. No, I think that's interesting. I think that's interesting. Basically what we need to feed back on as far as I'm concerned is the Cedric thing. Is the Cedric thing? Did Cedric betray the spirit of the tri wizard tournament? Right. Which demands a victor. Which demands a victor? Even though

28:21they had a victor and then he just got out of the tournament. Yeah. What do you mean? Victor Crumb. That was good. Thank you. That was really good. I was like, what? Oh man. My mom went to Hunger Games. Yeah. All right. The Cedric. The Cedric demands a victor. And it demands you want the victor. And if you don't, it'll kill you via Ratman. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Through the gripping nor response, I'm by Quince. Guys, confession time. I have a closet. And I'm not sure why because for the most part, I'm constantly reaching for the same three shirts. But you know what? There's no regrets there because they're ridiculously reliable shirts. And to me, this is what Quince does best because also I just fibbed a amendment before I own way more than three shirts. Now, because of Quince, their whole thing is focusing on high quality materials, like 100% Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and Marion wool. And the styles are timeless and versatile. And they cut out the middleman and work directly with ethical factory. So you're not

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32:04He's only gotten better at what he does. You know I think it's like the growth curve has been onward and upward and also upward. Right as birds often are. Yes. They are nothing but up. They are well I mean until they come down. They'll they come down. Which usually and hopefully is not because their batteries ran out. Right. Yeah. Well you sometimes see they got a they got a land so we can change the batteries you know. What do you think federal holidays are actually about? Exactly. Have to go change the batteries and all the birds. Wouldn't it be unbelievable this is real tinfoil cap territory? Certainly not what we're looking for here on through the GRIFFIN DORS ALORIES section but like if there was like an underground populist that we don't know about because that's like one of the things about government secrets is like how would nobody have ever just like spilled the beans? Right. Like what if you grew up in like a silo situation and you know nothing more than exchanging batteries and people believed to be birds? Right. Yeah. I think you come up and you're like birds have batteries which change them all the time.

33:06Which is like no they don't they're just wild animals. We're taught this in elementary school. We're taught this you know. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway but no I don't actually think that at all. I think birds are just living creatures. Yeah me too. Yeah. I've seen their innards. Not actually their innards but sometimes these things happen. Right. Maybe they twat. We had a cat growing up. We did and I swear sometimes it brought back some stuff where it was like you won this fight. Good for you. Good for you. I think. Good for you I think man we had I say we had a cat we had two cats and they were both very proud of their hunting exploits. Yeah Sony and cycle. Sony and cycle. It feels wrong to say it that way. Cyclone Sony. Cyclone's it. Sony and cycle. Cyclone Sony. That means cycle. Anyway. It doesn't matter. Whatever. Yeah so let's go into it. What do we have today? All right. Today's comes from Owen. Owen Weston. Westonny. Probably from Westeros. Yeah. Owen Westeros. Owen of House Westeros. There you go.

34:07It's from a whole different fandom. Hey brother what a serious picked up Voldemort's wand at the Potter's House wreckage would it change anything in the graveyard would love to hear your assaults. All right so serious gets there and he's like oh man. Wormtail really messed this thing up. He really put the dust in the bin as they say. This is bad news. That is Harry. All right. What could have happened? Well, wand. Better go ahead. Go ahead and pocket that. Leave Harry. The small child. He is my godson after all. I'm sure Hagrid will be here any moment. Any Dumbledore certainly trust him more than me. Yeah exactly. I'll leave him my motorbike. That will help. Yep. No doubt no doubt no doubt. Okay so no this is like one of those details. We made an entire video about like how did Voldemort get his wand back because obviously after he after the backfire and spell all you can imagine is that like he is reduced to nothing more than vapor.

35:10He certainly doesn't take it with him. So it probably is just left in the wreckage of Gatrix Hollow. So serious shows up. Do we know of serious is the first person there? Sirius I think is first there than Hagrid. Okay. Sirius is first there in Hagrid. Or is it because Hagrid's holding him and Sirius says give Harry to me. I know but I had my order from Dumbledore. No maybe this Hagrid first then. Okay. Okay. All right. Fair enough. But yeah so maybe even after Hagrid takes off. I mean you have to imagine this is a pretty emotional moment for Sirius. Yeah. You're probably just going to spend some time inside of that wreckage before it goes on to like try to obliterate Peter for his betrayal. Right. So he picks up the wand and then it's I guess in possession of like the order of the Phoenix or even the ministry I guess if Sirius then is quickly taken in for trial and sent to Askeban without not even taken in for trial. He's brought in and sent to Askeban without a trial. Right.

36:10So yeah I guess um yeah because he'd go confront Peter and he would lose the confrontation and he probably not doesn't use Voldemort's wand in that confrontation. Probably not. Yeah. Probably not. But so then I mean largely what we'd have to come to. So I think the real route of the question here is like if we get to the graveyard and priority in contatum isn't in play like the the brother wands aren't in play then does Voldemort just win. Right. That might be a bit of an issue. Let's see um we get to the graveyard Voldemort has had his own wand. Voldemort wouldn't have his wand but Harry would still have the Phoenix wand. Harry would still have the Phoenix wand. But it doesn't really matter because it's the twin corps that is the thing. Right and it's not until after the graveyard duel that some of Voldemort's own power is like stored within Harry's wand. Right. So that that like the golden flames that we see wouldn't happen yet.

37:12So it's not like Harry's wand of its own accord would just sort of like come to life and produce magic that he doesn't know he's capable of producing. Right. That is that is purely because of the duel. So best we could say well maybe maybe because Voldemort then probably has a wand that he's not like technically master of or whatever. He's probably using like warm hails wander. You know something like that. Right. So I guess I guess you could have a situation where maybe it's a little bit closer matched in terms of just like you know magical ability or something. So maybe like you know the the spells collide in midair but Harry being the master of his own wand. And Voldemort not being a master of his like it still disarms him or something. Sure. But okay so here's another question that could be kind of curious is that like it's even a levander in shell cottage basically says that like Tom Brittle Voldemort never really sought out another wand. Like he'd he'd always been happy with the wand that a levander had originally made for him.

38:12And so it's not until the realization of the twin course that Voldemort really needs to go and find like a secondary solution and seek out the elder wand. Right. So but we also know that when push comes to shove that Voldemort will abduct a levander in the name of gaining information in that particular pursuit. So let's just say that you're in a situation where worm tail has gotten Voldemort back to the like rudimentary body through you know the guidance of Voldemort. Is it more likely sooner that like an attempt on a levander may be set in place whether it's through Barty Couch Jr. or some other means Peter Petter grew himself. And the idea being that like the prophecy in play would almost like mandate the creation of a wand that would like have brother cores. Mm-hmm. You know like I mean it's a weird one and realistically the material would be there is where my

39:15mind then goes too quickly is that Fox has only ever provided two feathers. Right. Well it's not the prophecy doesn't mention the twin cores at all so it's not necessarily like core to the prophecy. It just works out that way. Okay. So then but the here's where the prophecy if you have to examine that for the purposes of this conversation. Yeah. Voldemort wins that night is the prophecy fulfilled because like the one with the power of the vinkish the dark lord approaches born to those who have thrice defied him as the seventh one dies. Right. Those are the underlying conditions. You know the dark lord will mark him as is equal. That is a portion of it that like is semi required. Yeah. You know like the the equality and maybe that's where like the usage of wormcails wand may come into play is that like you know I think when it really comes down to it like Voldemort you know if you if you were to take them into like a combine for example like you know if you're if you're

40:17auditioning for the NFL you go and put your skills on display so the various teams can decide whether or not they want you. If you could put Harry and Voldemort into a test of their magical abilities. Voldemort outclasses him and it's not even close. Right. He's a far superior like he's far more superierly capable of channeling magic to do a myriad of different things. Harry otherwise at this point in time especially as 14 and he's just mastered the summoning charm like eight months ago. Right. You know so it's not it's not like Harry is exactly even close to being on par with what Voldemort can do but if he has been marked as is equal then that needs to be true in this particular moment as well. True. I see what you mean. Yeah if he's been marked as is equal so like but then but then are you saying that because Voldemort wouldn't have it like they're like the the cores are part of what makes them equal. I'm not saying that I think that's specifically what does make them equal like I don't think that the subtext of the prophecy suggests that I think in the graveyard it just ends up being true.

41:22Yeah. Like and and that is like what sort of allows Harry to escape in that particular moment. Yeah. Okay. Because otherwise being marked as is equal it's like I mean if you just want to say it's purely Voldemort try to kill him as baby and Harry survived and it's like that's the equality but the marking doesn't happen until that happens so it's a you got like a real order of operations problem happening. Right. Yeah. How that needs to play out. Yeah I see what you mean. Well let's see so let's just assume though that like okay they don't have the twin cores so Voldemort is more talented and the vodka dog or expel the armist boom of vodka dog or unblockable blast right through it hits Harry. Oh no. Now what? You're right. Right. Okay. Um so without the protection or the golden fire or anything like that then the problem for Voldemort is going to be that he just took Harry's blood into himself. Oh. So the love crux is still active right away right away so it just is immediately gonna especially because

42:22like the other thing Dumbledore says is that like Harry meant to die or whatever. Yeah. And like when Harry comes back around from the tombstone he's like he was not going to you know so Cower like a you know behind this tombstone he was going to die upright like his father or whatever. Exactly. Yep. He fully intends to die when he turns around you know. He absolutely does. Yeah. You're right. You're right. So he is not necessarily sacrificing himself for the betterment of being kind but he is basically having a nobility of character that would suggest that like I'm going to like I'm not I'm just not going to huddle you know that's not how that's not how I'm going out. Right. I'm going out on my own terms. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. So I think he means to die and the love crux is in play. So at the very least the bit of soul inside of Harry will get destroyed by Voldemort in this moment. Yes it will. Right. Yep. Harry will end up at King's Cross who knows who he's going to talk to in there probably his parents I guess this time. Almost still see his parents that night. Hill. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah which is really special. Yeah. So he would end up seeing James and Lily and said.

43:22Patrick. Yes. Harry. Hey buddy old pal take my body back. I'm quite excited where I'm going to go yet. Like probably moving on they're telling me I can fill out a survey for a ghost. I don't know. I mean it's just like you know the fat fria certainly good. You know give me plenty of guidance over the years has good real underneath him. However I am. So do you agree a bit of a bad look if I come back as a ghost but this is going to be a rush rock to my dad you know why don't you bring my body back we good then he'll have some closure all right. I outboard the train. I'll pull I'm going to I'm going to move on he'll understand he'll understand he won't have it like a weird freak out and cause a whole time to a situation in the future or anything it's fine. But maybe maybe Cedric's party is like instead of King's Cross it's just climbing the tree again. Yeah. It's just up with the tree from God what a fire it's like you could climb a tree. It's a climb a tree. Where would it take me? Yeah. Oh. It's a really really tall tree. I'm climbing to the heavens. Yeah. That's how tall it is. James and Harry James and the little they're talking to Harry said we're going to look like

44:24hey Harry look look at me look at me watch this Harry look I'm hanging from my legs. Look at twig falls down like way into like James's hair and he's like oh God. This guy. This guy. Breach cracks. I'm okay. I'm okay. Everything is fine. Thanks fine. For Gold State Cedric. Imagine you have clothes on already. Bees. That I like to imagine you ran into bees. Oh God. In limbo. In limbo. It's like climbing his tree is stung to death again. Right. He's so fair. He doesn't even let like limbo be a situation where everything's like totally fine. It's like no the fair thing is that nature is the same. If I fall I could die again in limbo Harry. I'm so noble. Okay. Sorry. Harry talks to James and Lily. Right. In limbo and they're like we're so proud of you son. Right.

45:24Yes. So the big thing too is that Voldemort would also fall in that moment because that's what happens in the forest. Right. You know, so he's he's in there. Right. He's in there as well. But like less yeah less specific guidance. Is there anything that James and Lily could tell Harry in this moment because normally Dumbledore is sort of able to arrive with like all the answers. But James and Lily would have died before they even knew that like Voldemort failed in killing him as a baby. Right. You know, like so what what do they know? I guess they know now they've watched everything since then probably from like above. Yeah, from like above. Okay. Yeah. In the floor of heaven. Something like that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. All the floors of heaven. Yeah. I mean, they could tell him like you can go back, you know, you can grab the cup. It'll take you home or whatever. Sure. So they're like take my body. Oh no, Cedric. He can't give up the moment of surprise. It's really like his only thing right now. Okay.

46:24Yeah, right. We're going to have to leave the body behind Cedric. No problem. Oh, climate tree. That's fine. Fine. Come back. It's not fine. I need you to get the body, Harry. It's it's not. I thought it could be okay. It could be okay. I don't think I am. No. Okay. So. So the key thing here though is that I think from there, Harry would be able to return act quickly. Someone the cup gets Cedric and depart. And depart. Which means that he would return no longer a horcrux. And that does change rather significant portions of the story going forward. It absolutely changes things. It changes things a lot. Because Harry can no longer talk to snakes and he'll no longer like like he won't see Mr. Weasley get attacked the following year.

47:25Nope. He won't be drawn to the Department of Mysteries. Right. Well, who knows, Baltimore might try a different tack on that particular front. I mean to be fair and gobbled a fire, he literally enlists like a psychopath to go in and manipulate a game and teach Harry pretty well in order to get him to the middle of a maze and ride the graveyard via pork key. How much I can get him there in some other means? Right. But you know, if we just keep things as equal, you know, Harry did so then maybe Mr. Weasley dies though, I suppose. It's a little bit scary to think yeah, what those implications could be. That probably does happen. It probably does. Do you feel like there could be a scenario? And now I'm just kind of spitballing and shooting from the hip here. But do you think this is a scenario where like serious arrives with Voldemort's wand? I'm just thinking because like that's part of the premise here. No, that's part of the premise here. Yeah. Would be almost that like serious is dueling Voldemort directly with Voldemort's original wand. Interesting. Interesting.

48:27What? Well, okay, alternatively does Harry win mastery of Voldemort's wand as a baby? Oh, because it like backfires on him? Because it backfires. Right. Like the wand will work for him. You use my own wand against me. Right. Yeah. Let me say, yeah, you're right. I forgot that was the premise is that yeah, Voldemort doesn't have his own wand. Right. Right. Which could be, I mean, that could be like very interesting because I mean, the final duel as it is in Deathly Hallows Voldemort's holding the elder wand, believing himself to be the master while Harry is basically telling him wrong, I am the master. Right. And so if you can enact a duel, which I feel like Harry'd be charged about if Arthur's dead. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Of course, maybe Arthur's not guarding the Hall of Prophecy, but maybe he is. Maybe he is because Voldemort still wants the prophecy. He would still want, you're right. Especially now, like you tried to kill Harry and Harry came back.

49:28Exactly. Yeah. It'd be like, what is going on? Right. Right. Yeah. But then also Dumbledore. So we always talk, I feel like I'm jumping all over the place, but it's because details are funneling into my brain all at once. Normally, we talk about the single most important line in all of Harry Potter is it happens after the graveyard scene and it's Dumbledore's like gleam of triumph. Right. It's like a fleeting moment where basically Harry has explained to him that Voldemort took his own blood within him and therefore Harry is, you know, protected by what would be like the Love Crocs or whatever. Right. But this time, it would be a little bit different because he would basically be explaining like Harry is no longer a horcrox. Like, he doesn't necessarily, like, he's already done and without knowing that he was going to ever have to do it in the first place, he's already effectively died. Right. He's done that part of it already. Right. So then it's like, would like Dumbledore even like rely on Harry so much for the horcroxes to go hunt them down?

50:32You know, like, because part of why Harry is like raising these like, he saw the like the elegance of it, like, have Harry hunt them all down and then die himself and it's like all a neat little bow or whatever. True. Yeah. Right. Okay. Well, so if we're trading scenes, so this is just for the sake of symmetry and for, you know, again, kind of like rattling off, like if ordinarily you have the graveyard scene with priority and contatum, but we've swapped that scene with the forest again at the end of Deathly Hallows where Harry goes to die, then it almost stands the reason that we need a world where Voldemort wins back his own wand. Yeah. Because then you can have priority and contatum happen as the final duel. As the final duel. Right. And that's probably where it would come down to like, Harry is able to muster a lot of strength in the graveyard and force the bead back. Bees? Oh, bead. Sorry. Sorry, that was a trick. That was a trick. No, he's able to force the bead back to Voldemort, which is like what wins, right?

51:36Yeah. So it almost feels like what would end up happening is the brother wands would be the thing that starts to become more monumentally tying them together than either of them fully realizes. And it would kind of be interesting too because then it's Phoenix core feathers and both of them have returned from the dead. Oh, right. Yeah. That's interesting. It's kind of like a cool foil. Yeah. So I don't hate the idea of serious, collected the wand and he has it and there's like whatever altercation occurs and he like, thinks it'll be, I don't know, he tries to defeat Voldemort with his own, with Voldemort's own wand or something. Right. You know, you can see where that would be. Or maybe he's using it. I don't know. Maybe we get more like situation where it's like, yeah, they took serious his wand and they broke it or whatever, but serious had this now he's using this wand because it's the one he had. It's the one he had. Yeah. So you would need a scenario for that. And I mean, just even as I was kind of like, you know, trudging through it in my mind, it feels like there's a world where maybe like, because Bellatrix basically just gets

52:39the best of him, you know, in the duel. So you could have a scenario where if the duel is not happening right in front of the freaking veil, that Bellatrix does successfully like disarm him, which forces him to use. Oh, yeah. The other wand or something like that. Yeah. And you can see where like maybe, I don't know, like where maybe the way serious dies this time is that he's fighting Voldemort and Voldemort just kills him. That's exactly what I was going to say. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think I think for the premise to have like the full weight, you need serious, being in possession of Voldemort's wand to be a factor eventually. Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah, that's sort of the, the crux of the, this what if. Right. And maybe that's the kind of thing too where like you get back from the graveyard and they're talking with Dumbledore and Harry's sort of like, or in Dumbledore could be explaining like, well, the key thing that really made you, because serious is normally there in the office for this meeting. Yeah. So it could be the case that like as they're like describing the information series is like, like Dumbledore could say, well, the only reason like nobody ever knew what happened

53:41to his wand, but like the reason that you were able to go toe to toe with Lord Voldemort on this evening is because like, you know, he's weakened by not having his original wand and then serious is like, I have his original wand. Right. And it's sort of like a holy crap moment. Right. Got me. There would be some special things that could happen. Yeah. That could be cool. It could be cool. Serious was still die. Voldemort would be like, you can imagine Voldemort not even knowing what happened to his wand. Yeah. Like he'll like, kill someone walks over and it's just like, oh my God. You know, right. Right. Right. But then it's the kind of thing where it's sort of like we have the upper hand, like he doesn't have his own wand. And so then the big thing to like for Harry to be defending against would be any world where he received it. And then normally like when, you know, you get to the end of Deathly Hallows part one, you see Voldemort take the wand from Dumbledore's grave and shoot lightning into the sky. You're like, we're screwed. Right. You know, that's the Empire Strikes Back moment. It's like, how on earth are we going to defeat him with the most powerful wand in the world?

54:43Right. You know, but now it's almost like he gets back his, his own wand and you're like, the only reason Harry was even able to, to survive the graveyard is because he didn't have it. But now he does have it. Right. Yeah. So then, then Twin Cores. Then Twin Cores at the end. Right. Yeah. And then, yeah, prior to him, but, right. But we know Harry can win that. We know Harry wins that because he does that. That's probably where Dumbledore comes to him. Oh, yeah. That's where Dumbledore comes. You think? Well, I was just thinking in the wand. Yeah. Well, again, if we're trading the scenarios, then, then, yeah, then, then Voldemort's going to have had to have killed Dumbledore himself with his own wand. But there's probably enough different things happening that that could be arranged. I know this, this is where I feel like we have some really quality plot turns that I almost feel like we need like a big, long timeline and be like, we want this to happen. We want this to happen. We want this to happen. Now we need to figure out the middle ground from how to get from where we are. Right. We have to have Dumbledore come out to the wand at the end. Yeah, it's exactly the way Jesus had of Voldemort. Exactly.

55:43Exactly. The only one he ever feared. The only one he ever feared is back, exactly. Right. And in that moment too, Harry would have the bolstering phoenix song and all that. That probably means that that has to have been like one of the last spells he cast. So maybe Dumbledore just dies right at the Battle of Hogwarts. Oh, I mean, yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. That's crazy. Right. Like could that be something that Dumbledore foresees is necessary? You know, like, because I mean, Dumbledore would normally die obviously, obviously anyway. But like, could it be the type of thing where he's like the only way for Harry to overcome this circumstances to give him like extra firepower when the moment happens? Because normally seeing Lillian James is pretty in the graveyard. It's pretty darn powerful. I mean, for sure it is. But now we've already had like a really nice Lillian James moment that feels like the bow has been tied upon. Right. Well, but like, he already won the battle with the beads for Dumbledore to be coming out.

56:46He'll have already won the battle with the beads for Dumbledore. Yeah. I guess that's true. I guess that's true. This is just a total aside. But what would you think about a world where the usage of the resurrection stone is almost like to bring back the Marauders and Lillie and they almost come like rushing out of the castle as ghosts and they can battle for a moment to turn the tides. I'm thinking of like, you know how like Errorgorn summons the army of the dead to win. You know, it would almost be like as if Harry could use the resurrection stone in that moment more offensively. Oh, interesting. That'd be a very different, you're right. It's very Errorgorn then. It absolutely is. I'm 100% stealing from Lord of the Rings here. Right. It's like, they can't actually do anything, but just the site is so frightening that the death theater is like sleigh. Oh, that could be. That could be, yes. Like the first order. Oh, man, the first order. Oh, yeah. Now we're stealing from Star Wars. Oh, man. But the first order is the first order of the Phoenix, obviously. So you've got like, you could even have like all of them for turn.

57:48Right. You know, like it's, and that's what you need. Because I mean, every good lengthy battle needs a couple tide turns. You know, like you need to see like everyone losing and told the Millennium Falcon shows back up. Like, you know, it's, it's, it's good. Yeah, you got to have the, the cavalry show up at some point. That's right. That's right. Okay. Okay. I, I don't know that we can cover all the Mnusha, those kinds of things that when we're writing proper would take us hours and hours. Yeah. To develop there. But hopefully this answers the question. That's a fun one though. I do really enjoy that. It's a neat way to like we've never what ift with by changing those, those major variables. Yeah. Very open school one. Yeah. What if serious collected Baltimore's wand? Boom. Okay. So you know like the tropical island question like what three things would you bring in the answer is obviously Meshetti Tarpen, yo yo, right? But here's another. If you can wake up tomorrow and simply be better at one thing, what would it be? For me, it's the past and I know it's, it's actually not as depressing as it sounds. I like my past, but sometimes I have a hard time letting the hard parts go.

58:51I know they're far behind me. I know they can no longer hurt me, but still they do. And no matter what your answer to that question is, better is a feeling and it's defined by you. Maybe you don't hold on to grudges from freshman year, but would love to be better at keeping a potted plant alive. That is an acceptable better. And these are the kind of steps that therapy helps you take. The world tries really hard to define what it means to be better. And even if it's just finding out what it truly means to you, it can make a huge difference. So if you're thinking about therapy, look at BetterHelp. Turn up and get 10% off at BetterHelp.com. That's better, h-e-l-p-dot-com. This podcast is supported by your Southern California key of dealers. Living in Southern California, your SUV needs to do a little bit of everything. From the daily commute to weekends at the beach, road trips to Palm Springs and family adventures in Big Bear. That's why having the right SUV matters. Kia has an SUV built to fit just about every lifestyle, with traditional gas, hybrid,

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1:00:54what you need for the season ahead, with brands like Lori Geller, Philosophy, Ninja, and so many more. Shop now at QVC.com. There we go. Hello and welcome everyone to the houry. This is your Oriental Real Questions delivered by my phone this week because gumplines on vacation, okay? You get the breaks. I mean, just don't pay attention to the fact that he's like right there. Don't pay attention to that, all right? He's not. It's more of a staycation. We can't make him work, you know? Exactly. Sometimes you got to give him a day off. They got to be able to rest. You know, it's a difficult job playing across the room once a week. Exactly, all right? You know, he's earned it. He's earned it. So here we go. Today's question comes from Kat Founded. Who says, hey, brother, I had a few questions about Peter Pettigrew. Ben mentioned to even after his supposed to death, his dueling skills are looked down upon. And if Peter became an enamaegus, frame serious from murder, hit under Dumbledore for years, helped RuPaulage's potion and brewed Voldemort's resurrection potion, and if he did Maddie Moody alongside Barty Carchunia, my question is, how powerful of a wizard

1:01:56do you think Peter is? Could he have become an enamaegus by himself, be maddie by himself, and why didn't Dumbledore know that Peter was the traitor in the first Wizarding War if he can narrow it down to the Marauders? Thanks. I don't think he can narrow it down to the Marauders. But... Well, let's see here. Does anybody know other than serious that the secret keeper situation has changed? No. No. Okay. So I guess that's kind of like the big deal there is that, because I mean, even Dumbledore admits that he believed serious to be guilty. Right. Yeah. As the loopen, you know, Peter, that's kind of the beauty of the twist is that Peter is believed to be dead. Right. Like, everything really fits. There's not like an obvious grounds for suspicion in that particular department. But all of that being said, Peter is an unusual character because it does seem like even when you go back to like the snake's horse memory and the OWL, so whatever.

1:02:58It's like they're walking out and talking about like the ways in which you can identify a werewolf. And, you know, loopen's kind of got the like, he's wearing my clothes, he's sitting in my chair, he's wearing his loopen, like whatever. You know, and he's like obviously being silly about it. But then Peter is sort of like, I couldn't get past the, I knew the snout and the tail, but I couldn't remember anything else. And it's like, Peter, how thick can you get? You run around with the werewolf once a month. Right. You know, and it's like, it's like, but for real. Right. You know, like how could you possibly be in such close proximity to a so anept? Right. To a real one. And you know, so then I guess like when we talk about the anime, guess a lot of times, the way that we, you know, I think even the way it's delivered is basically that like with the help of James and serious Peter was eventually able to like cross that threshold and be able to get there. And I mean, the anime gas is sort of like, call me call me a little bit if you look at it because you also have like Rita Skeeter, who has an, yeah, who has an amegis. So I'm trying to think if there's like a real world comparison where it's like, yes,

1:04:04you can become qualified to do this thing. If you're willing to do like a very lengthy amount of work, right? For an amegis, you mean? Well, I mean, yes, for an amegis, but like are there things in the real world where you could go and spend enough time that you can get like an accreditation or a license to do a thing? Right. Like, maybe fly a plane. Like if you wanted to like, you know, like there's, I mean, there's expense obviously involved with flying a plane. But like you have to get like hundreds of like supported hours, you know, with like a trainer and stuff like that in order to like fly solo. So it's like, it's a, the only thing I'm bringing into question here is whether or not it's magical talent or commitment. Right. You know, that for how he's able to do these things, how he's able to get the amegis at least. Okay. Yeah. So we're just going to start with that detail in particular. Mm-hmm. I don't think you could do it without James and Syrias because it, I mean, big, I mean,

1:05:05it's specifically stated that with their help he accomplishes it. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't even think that that's as much. I feel like I'm, I'm flitting between which side of the argument I'm existing on. But even that, I think as an amount of reason, a reason, a boldness to it, which is even like, you know, Harry, Ron and Hermione use polygious potion to some measure of effect to get information from Malfoy and Chamber of Secrets. But like Harry and Ron never do that without Hermione. Right. Also true. Plain and simple. So it's like, we offer the accolade to the trio as if they all did it, but Hermione did it. Yeah. Yeah. And then the other two just went from there. And maybe that's even part of the balancing act a little bit was that like Hermione's transformation goes wrong. Right. So it's like, well, she made the potion, but those two had to take the risk with it. Exactly. But like the only way to like, to balance that out was to have something go wrong on Hermione

1:06:06send of the spectrum. But yeah. So then like the other thing with Peter that obviously makes him stand out is what he is capable of doing in that fateful duel with Syrias where he can blast open a city street, kill a dozen muggles in the process and basically like have enough gump shunt to cut off his own finger, transform, get away and use the circumstance effectively to frame Syrias for, you know, the trail. Peter's real absolute skill more than anything else is his ability to be a very fast thinker. Yes. You see it, especially after he's been revealed in the shrieking shack and he's able to like make appeals to every single person in the room because he tries every single person he tends every single person he turns to he is able to attack at a new angle with and they all feel like you can see where it might catch somebody right, right? And like eventually like Harry does spare him, but it's like he so quickly rationalizes

1:07:11like like what is your motivation? Why would you help me right now and like turns it against you like on a dime? Right. James want you to kill, he wouldn't want you to kill me. Yeah. And it's sort of like it's like you're playing on the fact that Harry wants to be in line with James' own values. Right. You know, like, and I forget if it's just the movie or the books as well with how he appeals like Ron, for example, like I was your pet, you know, and it's sort of like, yeah. And I mean to be fair, like Ron has been really upset with Hermione and Crookshanks for the entire year. Yeah. Because Crookshanks has been wanting to eat scabbers. Right. You know, we're as suspicious of scabbers. Right. He's trying to like tell Ron like you wouldn't be the kind of person who murders your own pet would you? Right. It's like, yeah, but you're not a pet. Right. Yeah. It's like you're like a really creepy old dude. Right. Right. And then I think with Jane, with a serious and lupin, it's much more like, you know, I didn't mean to. Right. You know, no idea.

1:08:11The dog load. What would you have done serious? I would have died to protect my friends. Yes. Yeah. Good points, here is we know. We know. We know we've heard. We've heard. And you do. Yeah. So good job. Good job. Yeah. But okay. So then from there, you've also got Peter going, finding the dark lord and he is once again, like it's, it's almost a commitment thing because Lucius would have the resources to go to Albania and seek out. Right. Voldemort. So full of it. Like when he gets out, there's that there even been a whisper of your way about how to bend their ninson. It's like they're absolutely whispers. Like everyone seems to know that Albania is the place. It's one hundred percent. Yes. It's like there's, there's no two ways about it. Yeah. That just is like at least at least at very least Lucius, your best argument could have been like, I came into the forest of Albania. I spent weeks searching for you, my lord. Right. You know, like, now the high door.

1:09:12Yeah. You're right. Right. Just gaslight them. Just, just, just, just, Voldemort's like, well, on that particular occasion, I decided to go to a nice pool in the middle of the forest and relax. Have a little staycation myself. Stacation is a really, really quite a bit of suffering. Willing myself to exist for 13 years, you know. I took the form of a nice, bunny rabbit in eight carrots. Eight carrots. I don't like vegetables very much, but, and two of the rabbits mouth, it was sweet and crunchy. I had not enjoyed a crunch for many years at that point. That rabbit only lasted three minutes before he died. Best carrot. I have a best carrot. Best carrot, Lucius. You have no idea. You don't eat carrots, do you? Let me see your freaking nails. Let me see them. You're low on carrot and... Your eyesight must be miserable. You need to invest in some multivitamins I know can afford it.

1:10:12Yeah. So anyway, that's another one, though, where I think Peter finds himself, and this is, I guess, maybe like the other way that he has no shame is really the other massive factor that's contributing to it, because the big thing that he does is he always goes to the biggest bully in the school yard. We see that. Even with the marauders, from that matter, they have their faults. They're at school. I don't think anybody would question that alignment, sort of the way that they carried themselves a little bit. So for Peter to fall in with that, on some level, yeah, I meant that he got this really great group of tight-knit friends, but this sort of had an unusual way of going about things. But for the purposes of being at school, it probably protected Peter in many ways from being on the receiving end of ridicule. Yeah, that's true. And then once you enter the real world, it's like, yo, okay, I'm being recruited to the order of the Phoenix and all my buddies are doing it. So I feel like I should probably do it as well. Probably should. They were losing pretty bad.

1:11:12I really don't want to do it. It's like, why would I stick with this team when the other team's clearly winning? Exactly. Yeah. So then he's just going to let over there. And I mean, let that take him as far as he does. And then when it comes to pleading with Sirius and Lupin, it's almost like, well, maybe I can get back in their good graces. Maybe they'll understand why I had to do what I had to do. Why James had to die and everything. But of course, they are not going to take that bait. And the only thing that he has left to do, because Sirius and Lupin are going to kill him otherwise. Right. You know, like, I feel like they were like, all right, we'll give you a chance. A chance ruined. Yeah. You know, no good. Yeah, no good. And so then it's like, you have no choice but to go back to Baltimore, which they ends up doing. And I think Baltimore even says, like, some spells of my own invention and help from warm tail, which makes me think that like basically, warm tail was like effectively receiving coaching directly from free life coaching with Baltimore.

1:12:14Exactly. Right. Are you wondering how to unlock your greatest wizard potential? Right. Come down to sweet sea at the Strip Mall, where I will be giving one-on-one tutorials. Yes. To teach you how you can recruit three other people and teach them how they can make money for and how it will work. And they'll each create three people and they'll tell them how to make money and they'll pay it up to ladder and you'll pay me, of course. It's like the, it's like a pyramid scheme, but like the, the, like, definitely halos is like the shape of the pyramid. Yeah. Baltimore just running up pyramid scheme. Warm tail. He's just selling motivational wizard speaks. Yeah. We're up tail over there. Well, I've successfully recruited Bertha Jorkins, you killed her. And then there was, there was Boti Kouda Jr. got him and not sure if you're taking half credit for that one. Do I get to count one and a half recruitments, my lord? Right.

1:13:15Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly what he's doing. It's like, my lord, I'm reading through the speeches we're giving. It seems like we're not really saying anything. It's like, you're selling them on an idea, an idea, warm tail. Yeah. Oh, no context, only good vibes, you know? They should be feeling motivated, but not how to, not what to do with the motivation. We don't really give them any action items. Now, help me load all these knives to the back of this call. That's right. It's just running in MLM. Nice. Nice. Okay. So what, what question are we supposed to be answering? I feel like we have gotten a little off track. I feel like we've gotten off track. Is he, it's like just how powerful do we think Peter is? Like, could he have done some of the things by himself? Because like, he overpowers Moody with the help of Bartikart's Jr. He like makes the potion for Voldemort with the help of Voldemort. Yeah. What else did he do here that was mentioned here?

1:14:18He'll, does the Polygyz potion with Voldemort defeats Matt Imoody alongside Bartikart's Jr. And becomes an end of Vegas with the help of others. So it's like, he's extremely coachable, you know? He is very coachable. It's true. You know, it seems like you're right. Like it does feel like the key accolade that was just uniquely his and his alone, well, I mean, I guess, I guess like coaxing Berthor�ans maybe counts for something. Right. Voldemort actually seems to give him some credit for that. Yeah. But otherwise, I feel like it's really the interaction with Sirius where he blows up the city block. And it does seem like an explosive amount of magic that he is like exuding in that moment. Yeah. So like what is that? Like or is that more just like sheer desperation fighting for your life? Like, you know, you hear about mothers lifting cars off of, you know, children or whatever. It's like sometimes like when it comes down to it, like you could just find it in yourself.

1:15:18Like, I mean, I don't doubt that like Voldemort like trained him a little bit in terms of like big explosive magic and stuff. Sure. And like, and I think it comes down to like all the quick thinking, like all serious is thinking about in that moment is kill Peter for killing million James. But Peter is thinking like he has recognized the situation and he has quickly assessed that if that I can frame Sirius for murder and kill a bunch of people and disappear and don't know. Right. Right. That's that quick thinking you're talking about. Yeah. That really is like his superpower. Yeah. And you know, put together a pretty ambitious plan all in one fell swoop with like, you know, what what do they say? Like everyone has a plan until they get hit in the face. Right. You know, and then it's sort of like things change when you've been hit in the face. Hit in the face. Yeah. You can't think as clearly it turns out. Right. Yeah. So, you know, that's that's maybe like a piece of what's going on here is like actually being able to like think in the face of danger.

1:16:18And I mean, you, even that's something I feel like you can sometimes see like my wife house and I just recently watched the Dungeons & Dragons movies movie rather with like Chris Pine. And they keep talking about like what, like what do you bring to the table? Like she's good at fighting and like he can do magic and she can shape shift. Like what do you do? And he's like I'm the planner. I'm a plans. Yeah. And it's like what's the plan fails? And we make a new plan. Right. And it's like like on some level, it almost feels like that could be Peter's role. Right. It's like, you know, in the face of certain nature, it's like not to worry. Well, thing is something. Yeah. I got it. I got you, man. Don't worry. Right. Yeah. He's also good at getting people to do the coaching, I guess. You know, it's like I think it is real weaknesses. And I guess it's pretty obvious is that he's like he has zero self esteem. Like he has no faith in himself at all. Right. You know, he doesn't believe he is brave enough or strong enough to do the things himself. So he seeks shelter from others. But once the others like lean back into him and are like, no, you got this man. Like look, just do this. Then it turns out he is very capable.

1:17:20Right. He just doesn't believe in himself. He needs others to believe in him. Right. Right. Yes. Very low self esteem and it really reflects basically in just like a willingness to say or do anything that is required to win the approval of the person that he's in front of. And I feel like a lot of times that probably comes like appealing to like admit. I mean, there is like a layer of manipulation there where it's like, what does this person need to hear in order for like for them to want me on their side, for them to appreciate like my ongoing praise of their excellence. Right. Right. Because like do you think Dumbledore like another part of this question was why couldn't Dumbledore susomount as the spy or whatever. And it's like, do you think Dumbledore thought like, I guess we don't know, but like Dumbledore could have had like a relationship with Peter such that it was like similar to Snape. It was like, yes, I know we have a mole.

1:18:20As I ever said, who's the mole or whatever. And it's like, Dumbledore is like, I know it's Peter because I'm the one who has to give him the information to give to Voldemort because we have to give him something or he's not an effective mole. You know, okay. Like, like maybe Dumbledore knew that Peter is like spying in the other camp because he's like, but he thinks he's doing it for the order and doesn't realize he's flipped. Right. Yeah. I mean, I could see a world where that's going on with the first quarter of the Phoenix. We're like, basically Dumbledore is like kind of having like overly loud conversations. Like, oh, yes, we're going to be moving the object on the 15th. That's Tuesday, the 15th of August. Right. You know, and then you know, Peter is able to go back and be like, yeah, on the 15th of August, they're going to be moving the thing. But then the switcher row with serious is non-disclosed. Can't is a secret that basically can't get out or has no other reason to get out.

1:19:21Right. And then even the event just simply in the city block where it's believed that like serious killed 12 muggles is probably enough for Dumbledore to be like, yeah, you're not on our team anymore. Right. You know, so like, as of Dumbledore thinks that Peter is working for him as a spy in Voldemort's camp and then Andy thinks that serious is the secret keeper. Then when Peter apparently dies challenging serious, then that all just makes sense. Yeah. You know, like he might not ever realize that Peter is the one who turned on him because we know he doesn't. Yeah. We just don't know if he was actually working as a spy for the order in the meantime. Like was it intentional or did or like, or did Dumbledore just sort of like figure it out on his own and was like sending false information? I mean, that kind of thing would happen in wartime all the time. Yeah. You know, like this idea of like sending like a false intention or false a false plan. Right. The false plans out there and then the enemy acts on you know, they're listening in on you exactly. Right. Yes. Yes.

1:20:21And that, I mean, you know, that probably could have been even just an underlying objective that Dumbledore was trying to get to the bottom of. Well, but no, but I mean like was did was Dumbledore working specifically with Peter, like as his spy to tell him to like go to Voldemort's camp. That's where that's where I feel like it's like too much credit to Peter. Yeah. Like that's where it's almost like I think Peter, it Peter going to the other camp is exactly what Peter would do. Like it fits. It's the bigger bully. Right. You know, like he's he's going to the greatest source of power. What he, which he believes will provide in the most amount of safety. But if he was doing it on Dumbledore's orders, that would require a degree of bravery that I don't think that Peter possesses. Sure. I think, I think more of the case that maybe they knew there was a mole somewhere within the order of the Phoenix would probably happen when what should have been secret plans were intercepted. And then from there, Dumbledore maybe is starting to like offer false plans in front of people to figure out who it is that he could speak in front of that would ultimately yield a result. Right. So you could, I mean, with such a small group of people, you could, I mean, if you're

1:21:22smart enough, you could probably figure that out. Yeah. I guess though we know he doesn't because eventually he thinks he knows what happened. Yeah. Eventually he thinks he knows what. Yeah. Like after, after the Potter, like eventually he thinks it just was serious. Right. It was the mole. True. Like so even if he was working on it and he was like, Nope. I figured out which piece of information got out. It was about the potters. I see what you mean. I see what you mean. Yeah. Right. Like at that point in time, it would be like, Oh, I was, I was really on to Peter and then all of a sudden it seems like serious. The person they placed their trust in is the one who must have betrayed them because I offered to be the seagrower and they insisted upon seeing being serious. And that's as far as seeing there's the last thing that happened. Right. Yeah. He doesn't know what got switched again. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's a wild wacky weaving piece of the narrative. And if anything, I think you just further reinforces Peter's own cunning in order to manipulate the events in such a very specific way. Yes. And have it work out so successfully.

1:22:22Yeah. He's pretty cunning. There's no doubt about that. Right. Yeah. And I think it's a bit more like magical ability. It's like, yeah, I think it kind of comes back to that like coach ability. Like I don't think he's getting there on his own, but he does keep being in the room with the people who are asking for highly like implicated implicated. Is that even a word like in the room with high implications in a room with high implications Yeah. Is the is what I'm going for there. Yeah. And in that very nature, it's almost like sometimes it's less the the the the the like power required and maybe just the opportunity to do something important. Right. Yeah. True. So I guess he's probably more powerful than you think, but I think his real power is just being in the right place of the right time. There you go. There you go. So fantastic question. Peter always a mysterious character, but he's it's also interesting like with the likes of Peter because he's just like one of those characters that's so easy to hate. Yeah. And it's like I feel like there's like a way in which you can talk about Peter that

1:23:24I would never talk about any like actual real life human, but he's like a bizarre outlet for like frustration. Oh, yeah. Where it's sort of like a more hate Peter. There's a lot. There's really no redeeming qualities to him. I don't think that there's anyone out there who's like Peter pedagrous my favorite Harry Potter character. No. No. Like that's such a weird choice. It's a weird take, man. Yeah. Like you don't want to be you don't run that one back. Yeah. It's like can you explain to even make a funk opop of Peter pedagrous? I mean, the answer is yes. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. But still that being said, I watched a movie recently and goodness gracious. This would be better if I remember the name of it. You could easily go into like the IMDB, but it was a movie where the actor who plays Peter pedagrous who is like a like perfect casting for Peter is just like a nice person. And it was so weird how quickly I was sold on him being a nice person after I've ever known him as Peter pedagrous. Right. And it was like, wow, this is crazy. The movie was a good actor. I know. Yeah. Yeah. And the British actors just are.

1:24:25But the movie in case you're wondering is about almost like a kid who is living in a house and he is like time traveling to speak to former residents of the home to like put together like a greater picture of like what has happened there. Okay. Yeah. So but Peter pedagrous or the actor of Peter pedagrous in it. All right. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Anyway, but I think that's going to do it for today. As always, please continue to ask your questions and we will do our very best to continue to answer them. Until next time. Bye. Guys, just want to say thank you so much again for tuning into this week's episode of the houry. We hope that you've enjoyed it and sort of like the different version kind of conversation that we have kind of behind the scenes. J and I like kind of theory crafting right off the cuff. If you'd like to sign up for yourself, you can just go to patreon.com slash through the Gryffindor and select the houry tier. Yeah. But make sure you tune in next week when we're church about regular programming here on through the Gryffindor. Today's episode was edited by Isabelle Chris Lee, Vashon Branden, Does Our Art, Catherine Stein is our production manager and the show was hosted by me in Jonathan Carlin.

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