Chapter 13: The Secret Riddle | Half-Blood Prince

0:00through the Gryffindor is just weeks away and tickets have been added to our previously sold out New York event on September 13th. Tickets otherwise are still available in Boston, DC and Richmond, Hartford and Philly are sold out. Ticket links can be found at supercarlinbothers.com slash events. Come on out for a magical night of trivia, exclusive merch and a live recording of Gryffindor. We hope to see you all so soon. So if you've ever furnished a restaurant, hotel or an office, you know the trail. Five vendors, five invoices, five delivery windows. But there's a better way to do this. Creighton Barrel Contract is a business to business program that covers three brands. Creighton Barrel, CB2 and Creighton Kids with one account, one order, one delivery. They've got durable plates and glasses, contract grade furniture and lighting that looks custom that's built for the wear of busy space actually takes. And the best part is you're not doing it alone. A dedicated rep handles your project end to end from volume orders to design curation. Plus members get 20% off, tax exempt checkout and flexible payment with no minimums.

1:05Learn more at Creightonbarrel.com slash podcast. That's Creightonbarrel.com slash podcast. Do you seek adventure and want to serve your country? The Central Intelligence Agency's Directorate of Operations is hiring. We are looking for individuals with a can-do attitude and a collaborative mindset. If you're looking for a challenge, apply online at CIA.gov slash careers. Welcome dear listener. I'm Jonathan Carlin. And I'm Benjamin Carlin. Can we invite you to join us through the Griffin door, your one-way ticket to the enchanting world of Harry Potter. So grab your wands and dust off your broomsticks and join us as we unlock the potion stain pages of the half-blood prince chapter 13, the secret riddle. Secret, secret, secret riddle.

2:07Do you suppose it's any coincidence that the chapter about Voldemort's like upbringing is chapter 13? No, I don't think that that is a coincidence at all. There is also chapter 13 of Chamber of Secrets, which is the very secret diary, which is also about the Tom Riddle origin story. There is some unluckiness going on there. Absolutely. I don't think there's anything about that. It reminds me of, there was a book series that we read when we were kids that was super whimsical called West Side. No, not West Side Story, West Side Story. And there was no floor 13. There was 19. Okay, you're right. It was like, there were 30 floors, but there was no 19th floor. Yes. I'm doing such a bad job connecting just to the 13. Some hotels don't have a floor 13. That's true. Yeah, and it's like one of those things that, like if you don't notice it, but then it means if you're on floor 14, then you are on floor 13. Right, right. Or I think sometimes like the 13th floor would be like the service floor or something. Maybe that could do. So like, there's no one staying on the 13th floor.

3:08Oh, okay. So like people taking out like one step further in case somebody's outside and they're like, now wait a second. I'm counting the windows vertically. Now hold on one tick here. Also am I in England where the first floor is the lobby and the second floor is the first floor. So confusing. It is incredibly confusing. Anyway, so we're looking at chapter 13, the secret riddle where the chapter art is going to depict almost exactly as described a young, what is supposed to be 11 year old Tom Riddle sitting on his bed at the orphanage, specifically Wolves orphanage, although that is a detail we don't actually get in the books. That's true. It's just the orphanage. It is just the orphanage. I have to admit that I looked at your page and your markups just kind of by accident. Okay. Part of the chapter we have here is a shadow coming across Tom Riddle and it's sort of like depicted on the wall. I highlighted this and said ominous. I'm pretty sure that on your page you said missed opportunity.

4:11I said miss chance at creepy shadow. I'm looking at it and I'm like, I feel like a kind of music. It's kind of got like a pointy bit across the top. It doesn't, I mean, it doesn't, it feels like there's a, there's that famous Phantom Menace poster where it's like little Anakin, but the shadow is Darth Vader. It is one of the greatest movie posters of all time. It's such a great one and it's like, yeah, like I feel like it didn't have to be, you know, that it could look like a little more snake like or something like. It's just like it's a little pointy. Right. Yeah. So then maybe like a little bit too accurate as far as shadows are concerned. Right. But then also he's, I can't help but notice that he's wearing his shoes on the bed. Shoes on the bed. Which one's like what a monster. Yeah. Red flag. Do come on. Take your shoes off. Yeah. You sleep in there. Anyway. I feel like he also looks like it will say that he is like taller than average for 11, but like he looks kind of old for 11. If you told me that this was a drawing of a 16 year old, I would not like blink an eye. Yeah, I'd be like, yeah, that's about right.

5:11Yes, exactly. But no, this is what our canonical depiction of 11 year old Tom Riddle looks like. So we've got that. He does kind of look like he's handsome. He looks well dressed. He's kind of got like a well buttoned up thing going on about him there. Yeah. But anyway, as we dive on into the chapter here, Jay, which I like to kick things off with a particularly long opening first sentence. Very long first sentence. Right. An opening paragraph, if you will. All right. Ready? Katie was removed from St. Mungo's hospital for magical maladies and injuries the following day by which time the news that she had cursed had spread had been cursed had spread all over the school, though the details were confused as nobody other than Harry, Ron, Hermione or Leanne seemed to know that Katie herself had not been the intended target. And then the dragons arrived. Everyone's like, you guys hear about this Katie thing? Like, I don't know. I think someone tried to kill her and it's like, yeah, oh my God, dragons. Right. Maybe they're coming for Leanne. Right.

6:12Yeah. It's like, I was reading this. It was like, I had already forgotten Leanne was present for it. Yeah. And so it's like, nobody else in Harry, Ron, Hermione and who? Who? Who is this chick? Leanne? Yeah. Seemed to know that Katie herself had not been the intended target. So anyway, yeah, I think the dragons are there to finish off Leanne. That's my point. Yeah, that's pretty much it. They're like, you know, we, the dragons set the curtain at the curse necklace to Katie, the trying and getting Leanne. That didn't work. You know what? And you know what I just remembered you guys were dragons. I got you. So why don't we just do it ourselves? We can, we can do this. Yeah. We can, we've over thought it with the whole curse necklace. We've over thought it. Yeah. Anyway, so then we kind of shift back into like one of the running themes throughout the book, which is that Harry will not let go of the belief that it is Draco who is behind it, which he is in fact, correct about. And now. Oh, and Malfoy knows, of course. Yes. And then Harry to Ron Hermione who continued their new policy of feigning deafness to which I was like, you know, it's kind of funny because there's like the Muffliato curse, which is like, it's almost as if they're like casting it upon themselves.

7:14Right. They're like, oh, what was that hair? There's a strange buzzing. I couldn't hear you. I couldn't, couldn't hear you. It's so annoying because Harry is correct about this. And it's like, even his evidence is pretty good. I know. Yes. Yeah. It says that they're feigning deafness whenever Harry mentioned his Malfoy as the death eater theory, which I crossed out and said fact. Right. Because that is in fact, what is going on here? Yep. Although is this not also, I was reading through some theories out of a hat submissions because we recorded the episode of that for Super Carlin Brothers, which in case you're unfamiliar, is just basically like taking bad theories and defending them to the best of our abilities. But one of them is sort of this like age old thought that like Draco has actually received a werewolf spite. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like, what's going on here? Dr Muffliato is werewolf.com. Yes, exactly. Yeah. So, you know, maybe, you know, it's like does he have the dark mark or a werewolf bite on his arm? Maybe it's both. Maybe it's both. Poor Cain and Lose Dose. Yeah, right. You know, you can be two things except not actually usually you can't because Fenrir is

8:14like, I'm a death eater and he's like, actually Fenrir, Fenrir, rated in. You used to look at your arm. You see the dark mark. I didn't think so. That's right. All right. All right. Now go buy some people, all right? On my behalf. On my behalf. So when I rise to power, I will probably persecute you. So what? I'll stop editing that right now. I'll edit that right now, right? I'll edit that right now, right? Are you less than me? Yes. Okay. Do I look down at you also? Yes. Can you ever earn my respect? No. The way that Voldemort is able to lure people into supporting him when he has no interest in supporting them back is absurd. I mean, it is absurd when politicians or leaders convince people to support them based on how they will help them when they have no intent of doing so. Yeah. You're right. Yes. It's kind of unethical and stuff. It is kind of unethical and stuff. Anyway. Anyway. Anyway. Anyway. Anyway. Harry had wondered whether Dumbledore returned from wherever he had been in time from Monday's

9:15night's lesson. But having had no word to the contrary, he presented himself outside of Dumbledore's office at eight o'clock, knocked and was told to end. End of the past word for the door. Right. I came back to this before, which was like, I think in the last meeting, he says like come in. And this time, it's like he says enter. Okay. But I always operated under the belief that he always says enter. So anyway, still need to fact check that better. Okay. All right. The mystery of, is there a secondary command to the door? Right. To be allowed entry. Yep. Remains a mystery. But there's that Dumbledore unusually tired. His hand was as black and burned as ever, but he smiled when he gestured to Harry. Always happy to see Harry. You know, that's, that's right. You have been busy while I was away. Dumbledore said, I believe you witnessed Katie's accident. I wasn't really busy of sort of really convenience. I was walking in the snow and then there was like this curse in front of me. I don't know. I was actually using my designated leisure time to go down to Halter 8 weekend.

10:15Yeah. It was not fun, by the way, like at all. Like, I don't know if you can do something about the weather. I don't believe you if you say you can't. Right. Real cold, real bitter. Watch one of my classmates get attacked by an necklace. So on the whole, not the best day. On the whole. Didn't try to be busy. Just was, okay? Right. Yeah. Where were you? Yeah. Yeah. But then, yeah, we get the kind of explanation as to why, despite the power of this necklace, it doesn't actually kill Katie because it appears that she has brushed it with the smallest possible amount of skin. How very fortunate because had she even held it in her unloved hand, she would have died. It's like, it is amazing that to me that the necklace even has side effects if it's this deadly. Right. Yeah. It feels like, you know, if you, it almost seems like what it's suggesting is that like, if you only got like a tiny bit hit by a vodka daura, like you might not die. You might, you might just like go into some sort of like exorcist, like scenario. Right. You know, be hospitalized for a while, but ultimately be okay.

11:16Right. But then the other kind of thing that if you think is interesting here is that it says that luckily Professor Snape was able to do enough to prevent a rapid spread of the curse, which is, you know, interestingly, like with her sitting in the room with Dumbledore's hand, which Snape also performed a similar brand of magic on. And right away here is going to be like, why him? Why not Madam Pumphrey? And like I actually think Dumbledore's response here is kind of interesting because he says Professor Snape knows much more about the dark arts than Madam Pumphrey. And it's not exactly a compliment. It's just true. It's just a fact, yeah. Right. Yeah. Which is like, you can read it and sort of be like, no, he's like more, he's better than Madam Pumphrey because he knows this like obscure branch of magic. And he's like, not really. He's not happy that Snape knows it. It just is helpful on this occasion. Right. Yeah. And then of course, Finneus and I, Jellis Black has to speak up because I would not have admitted a student to question the way Hogwarts operated in my day. It's like, is this a matter of how Hogwarts is operated?

12:17Right. You know, like it's like Katie got hurt so we helped her. Oh, well, no, I feel like he's responding to the like, why him? Why not Madam Pumphrey? And it's almost as if like I would not have allowed a student to question the way in which we handled a problem. Right. Is that not, was that what you were saying? Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, so really like I would have not permitted a student to question the way Hogwarts. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, this is how to do like school operations. Like she's just been hurt and it's like, oh, like, oh, I don't like the way you're operating the school sending teachers to save students or something. I would just grabbing this differently. I don't know. Who do you think Finneus is talking to? Dumbledore about Harry. Yeah. But isn't it because Harry has questioned him? He is.

13:17I mean, he's questioned him about like, why did you have why to mad at why did Snape do it not Madam Pumphrey? Which doesn't seem like it's like, it doesn't feel like rescuing someone from a curse is like a school operation thing. But like, but the Finneus is saying like, it's not okay for Harry to question Dumbledore's decision about how to do this. Right. So it's not the school operations. It's not the healing somebody who got hurt. It's the like questioning the like Harry's be like double guessing how to do it. Right. Right. So he's double guessing how to do it, not a school operation. And Finneus is saying, he's questioning the way the school is operated. It doesn't really matter. We can just keep over it. Okay. Okay. Yeah. All right. Anyway, just give over all that. Then Harry of course, even though Dumbledore knows everything about what Harry did on his weekend away, Harry has to ask him, where were you this weekend?

14:21And Dumbledore was like, I'd rather just, I'd rather not say, you know? You know, it's funny too because like, I shall tell you and do course. And Harry's like, you will like, said Harry startled. And this is mildly frustrating. I think like, especially if your Harry, Harry is almost like sort of delighted to know that like, there's a myriad of situations like even getting to like go destroy a horcrox. Like Harry's like, can I go with you? And Dumbledore's going to be like, yes. And he's like, really? I didn't know you were going to say yes. I had to ask though. Right. But it's like Dumbledore gets the end of a word of the Phoenix. And he's like, I will finally tell you everything. And then we start half blood prints and he's like, okay. Now I'm going to tell you my guesses. And Harry's like, I know you're going to tell me everything. I was like, yeah, but these are guesses. Yeah. You pulled, Paul. I did it. Also, I said, I would tell you everything up to that point. If I do new things, I'm not required to tell you those cool pinky promise. All right. Yeah. Exactly. It's like, how is it that once again, Dumbledore has secrets.

15:21He's not telling Harry exactly. It's like, come on. Come on. I know. I know. I'd rather not say just now. It's like, I don't even understand why he doesn't tell him. I mean, it's like, where has he been out? So searching for horcruxes, right? Yeah. I mean, I was like, do we just need to reverse this out? Because I mean, I guess it doesn't even seem like it could be the cave. Because when he gets to the cave, he doesn't know how to enter it yet. Right. So it's not like he has already gone through the process of entering the cave and he's like, okay, I found one. You know, he ends up determining the location, but it does seem like he's largely visiting it for the first time with Harry. Right. You know? Yes, it does seem like that. Or else has not gone any further than like the rock they land on when they, when they operate. Right. So where else could he have gone? Because I got me, I guess the other thing would be like collecting memories. Collecting memories? Yeah. I guess that's the other thing he could be doing. But he will tell him in due course. This is also a thing he keeps telling her about his hand, which he does not tell him in due course. You know, you know what?

16:22It could be, he, like, he's possibly like writing his will. Like, dumb, oh. You know, like, I mean, not that it's that big of a deal, but like, he must do it sometime before the cave. Right. Is what comes down to? Yeah. Where were you? I'm just in nothing important. I'll tell you about it later. You'll get it. You know what? There would be, you'll get a letter from the ministry about that. Right. I had a meeting with a notary, you know, and to get the stamp on this, their approval for me to pass on historic artifacts to you, which they will not allow for their clues. Right. Right. Could I give it to you right now? Could I? Yes. Is it even mine to give? No, not mine to give because it is a historical artifact, and therefore I don't have any ownership for it. You could probably be pretty successful to argue that it's not mine to give because you're the one who recovered it. So it's maybe more yours to begin with. I don't even know. Also, it's right there. It's right there. If you just want it right now, like, just take it. Just wrap the invisibility cloak around it. Nobody will ever be able to find it. No, no, no, no. Just don't forget where you put it. Don't forget.

17:23Don't forget. Right. I mean, if you really needed it, it'll like come to you anyway. So. Right. Right. So anyway, maybe he's doing that. He's going to be able to figure it out later. Okay. So then we kind of have Harry like giving further updates about what has happened to the last spoke. I met Mendungus in Hogsmeade and Dumbo was like, ah, yes. I am already aware that Mendungus has been treating your inheritance, but light-fingered contempt. Yeah. He has gone to grounds into a costum outside the three broomsticks. I like the usage of a costed here. Yeah. I mean, he did like hold up against the wall by the throat. Right. But double the same thing in such a matter of fact kind of way. Don't you a costum, you know, that thing that happened over the weekend? That thing, you know, I think he rather dreads facing me. And it's like, do you think? Right. Yeah. You're stealing from his favorite person. Right. Right. Although I really can't believe Dumbo does let it get happened at all to be honest. It just seems like, wow, like I feel like there's no way Dumbo knows all these things that Harry did and doesn't know that like Mendungus is stealing stuff from order headquarters. Right. You know, yes, especially when he's now stealing directly from Harry.

18:26Right. We have a, we have an interjection again from Phidius Nigelus who says, that main geolid half blood has been stealing black family allumes. And I just think this is interesting because Fletcher is not on the, you know, the Mendungus Fletcher. Fletcher is not on the sacred 28, which means that the pure blood side of him must come from his mother side. Like I don't know if there's any ability to ever like sus out. He does have like red hair, which would be potentially like a weasley branch. Or like a prohibit thing. Yeah. So that's the half blood, even, you know, it doesn't have to be that, you know, his parents were pure bloods. You're right. You're right. I guess I'm probably leaning a little too heavily on James being a pure blood and like, Lily being muggle born, right? Doing like 100 plus zero divided by two was 50. Right. You know, but I guess the portions are not always 50. It's not, yeah, I mean, yeah, because the way that like the blood math works in Harry Potter is that like it's not, it doesn't have to be 50, 50.

19:26Or half blood, it either you're 100% pure blood or you are 100% muggle born, but anything else in between is half blood is half blood. Okay. Okay. Fair enough. Okay. Let's see here. Professor did Professor McGonagall tell you what I told her after Katie got hurt about Jacob outfully. And this is again where Dumbledore knows a lot more than he's going to be willing to tell Harry because there is pure validation that he could have perfect. And he's going to be able to provide it right now. Absolutely. Absolutely. She told me of your suspicions, yes. And you say, I shall take all appropriate measures to investigate anyone who might have had a hand in Katie's accident. It's like, what do you mean? What do you mean? What do you mean? Do you already know who did it? Right. Yeah. I mean, this really is like one of those unusual things where it's kind of like Dumbledore. You can't like somebody got hurt. You know, it's like. I mean, this really does become that greater good thing.

20:26It feels like where it's kind of like, you know, it feels like Katie Bell almost died over this. It's almost like you got to do something about Draco. It's like, it's forcing your hand earlier, but it's almost like it is unethical to allow him to just keep trying to create ways to kill you in the school. Right. Like, you may know that you're too clever to be hoodwinked by them. But now somebody else has been like a bystander in that journey. Yes. Like, like you might need to be like regulating a lot more of his movements because we could probably figure out the Rosemurta thing right away. Yeah. Like a lot. I think you could figure this out a lot faster. Absolutely. Yeah. Especially after the wrong thing. Right. Well, in investigate anybody. So it's like, okay, that's the other thing Dumbledore. If you investigated this situation at all, you went down to the three broomsticks and questioned Rosemurta about it. Right. Exactly. Like go to the scene of the crime. Right. I was gone this past weekend. A young girl was attacked. What happened? Right. Do you remember her being in here?

21:26What time was that? Who else was in here? Have you spoken to Draco Malfoy at all recently? Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Like, I mean, this is not hard to figure out. And like, just, you know, undo the imperialist curse or just, yeah, so frustrating. Yeah. So sometimes these are the kinds of lines that I feel like are baked into this story because it's like, if nobody asks it, then we either reader after the factoring and be like, why did this never come up again? Right. I'm going to ask it. I'm going to basically give you like a non-answer, but technically you've asked it. And so now we are all just kind of like satiated as far as that's concerned. It's like, oh, okay. It was on page. Yes, things are back to normal now. We don't know what he did. And it's like, like, to investigate it, the answer is he did nothing to investigate it. He just kind of knows what was going on from the start. Right. And it's just going to kind of let it keep going on, I guess. Right. Yep. But now we get into the lesson where we are picking up from the tale of Lord Voldemort's beginnings, where last we left at the point where the handsome Muggle Tomberdell had abandoned his witchwife, Mirrope, and returned to his family in Little Hangleton.

22:28Yes. Mirrope was left alone in London expecting the baby who would one day become Lord Voldemort. Yes. How do you know she was in London, sir? Because of the evidence of one correctist burq. Said, number door, who by all means, and it's helped found the very shop once came the necklace we have just been discussing. Which at that point, until this point, the origin point of the necklace has been like, they're fairly certain they saw it at Borgon and Berks, but now Dumbledore is like confirming it outright. Right. And then the other kind of little detail that we like to bring up here about what's going on with Borgon and Berks in particular is that every other occasion that we've gone into the shop, it is Borgon, who is there. And even the phrasing of helped founded the very shop almost does seem past tense a little bit like the name Borgon and Berks remains, but correcticus doesn't. Right. And it is correcticus, Berk, who is going to basically like give Mirrope a horrible deal

23:30for the necklace. Yep. 10 gallons. And also it is like we never knew exactly who was killed in the name of the locket Horcrux and it's kind of just thrown away as what? Albanian peasant. Albanian peasant. Yep. However, it's kind of like that's sort of like a throwaway line. It doesn't have any significance, but if it is like if Pomerodle works there, comes to know this person, we know he had close proximity. It is through that relationship that he ultimately discovers Slytherin's locket and the person he holds accountable for taking it from him in the first place, not for like ripping off his mother or anything, but just for taking it in the first place is the person he kills to create the Horcrux. Right. Yeah. So it all feels like it lines up very nicely. It definitely does. Like he's in the right place with the right time with motive. Yeah. Right. Exactly. And the murder weapon or proof, the murder proof. Exactly. But then we get the account of what happened with Caractersburg and Marope.

24:31He says, Oh, we heard that sort of stuff all the time. Oh, this was Merlin's. This was his favorite teapot. But when I looked at it, it had his marks, all right. And a few simple spells were not to tell me the truth. Of course, that made it near enough priceless. She didn't seem to have any idea how much it was worth. Have to get ten gallons. Best bargain we ever made, which my goodness, the absolute slime ball. Yeah. Absolutely. And especially kind of considering like the fact that like she's showing up in the cold, expecting a child and you're looking at it as an opportunity. It's like, dude, have some decency. I know. He's like, what my lucky day? I know. It's like, no, no, man. You know, you could have provided more help. You put a lot of. You should have provided more help. You absolutely could have. Wow. Okay. So yeah. And so even by his own description, just there's some additional context here. He made it near enough priceless. The Opal necklace in question that just cursed Katie Bell, he tells Hermione costs 1500 gallons.

25:32Right. So he gave ten for Slytherin's locket, which he describes as priceless. Yeah. So it's like, you can't even begin to fathom how many gallons it should have been worth. Oh my gosh. Like so much, so much. Right. Because I mean, yeah, and I don't know that it would have helped Merope survive. I mean, it seems like she is just fundamentally defeated. Right. She's really just giving up. She is. So I mean, I don't know that it makes a like enormous difference in the scheme of things. I don't know if it would have given Tom Riddle his own like store of like startup money or something, you know, like through via inheritance. Right. But we also know that he does value Gringot's eventually. That's where he hides the cup. And it is a place that he like maybe himself always wished to have had like a deep, deep, deep vault of which you can only get by being a deep, deep, deep family. Right. Yeah. So there's that. But even Harry is like, what? He'll give her dead gallons, which thank you, Harry. And double doors like, oh, the correctest, the correctest book was not famed for his generosity,

26:32which like, yeah, no kidding. But so we know that near the end of the pregnancy, Merope was loan in London and desperate need of gold, desperate enough to sell her one and only value possession. The locket that was one of Marvolo's treasured family elapsed. But then this sentence just drives me up a wall because Harry's got like, but you could do magic. You could've got food and everything for a supply magic. Yeah. And I'm like, dude, speak for thyself. Speak for literally others. And I was like, go ahead and remember these words in a year's time, Harry. I dare you. I dare you. I dare you when you're when you're eating. You could do magic. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. So could you. Right. So could you. What are they end up eating like boiled mushrooms or something? Yes. Right. Right. And they're like, SEO salmon. Like if I was here, I'd be like, oh, wow. Yeah. Sam fishing. We can. I was a muggle. I overthought it. I thought about I was thinking line and hook. I forgot about magic. I forgot. I forgot. I forgot. It does feel like the kind of thing where I almost were stated the assiopsalmen and like

27:33the salmon salmon. And Harry sort of does like like that face palm. Yeah. He's like, right. Salmon. Salmon. Anyway. But then we, it goes on to say, or Dumbledore is trying to explain what's going on here. And the thing about all of this is actually really good theory fodder in general because we do know that Dumbledore is operating on purely guesswork. And when it like Dumbledore has some reliability to his guesswork and I think that there's something to be said for that. But it can go the other way as well where it's like all he's trying to do is like kind of read the tea leaves. Right. And then A, you know point B and all you can do is sort of like sort of get there. What happened in between. And he even says that here, perhaps you could but it is my belief and I'm guessing again, but I'm sure I'm right that whatever husband abandoned her, my hope stopped using magic. I do not think she wanted to be a witch any longer. Of course, it is also possible that her unrequited love and the the attendant despair sacked her of our powers.

28:34That can happen. Right. Two things going on here. Two things. One is that we've got a talk's situation. That's the loop. And because Tonks also is losing her metamorphmage abilities at the moment. Absolutely. Yep. And I think that's that's just kind of like an interesting like peace and layer of the continuity. I would say that's very good writing that we have like a separate instance that is happening in real time with completely different circumstances that represent this reality. Through the given norisponsored by Quince, guys, confession time, I have a closet. And I'm not sure why because for the most part, I'm constantly reaching for the same three shirts. But you know what? There's no regrets there because they're ridiculously reliable shirts. And to me, this is what Quince does best because also I just fibbed a amendment before I own way more than three shirts. Now, because of Quince, their whole thing is focusing on high quality materials like 100 percent Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton and Marion wool. And the styles are timeless and versatile.

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32:40Kind of thing. So in a way, it may still kill her if you think about it, but continue. Absolutely. Okay. So anyway, Dumbledore knows about obscuris because his younger sister Ariana was one. That's how she died. That's like the big explosion in the end. Right. It kills her mother as well. So we know that Dumbledore is at least moderately familiar with this particular like magical entity. But what is really interesting about this her particular state and when she decides to stop using magic is that if you're watching the fantastic beast movies, like the character of credence is uniquely like extra powerful because he is like the only known case of someone who was able to control the obscuris inside of him. Correct. And to the point where Grindelwald is trying to recruit him from New York City specifically because it would be a way of defeating Albus Dumbledore. Right. So you have somebody who is completely untrained in the state of magic also growing up in an orphanage,

33:45mind you, orphanage that specifically, you know, is against magic. Right. But that means that credence who has no training whatsoever is supposedly more powerful, at least in a volatile capacity than Dumbledore. Yes. So what you have here is Marope who is actively repressing her own magic and is about to give birth to the most dangerous dark wizard who has ever lived. So if you see where we're going here, it is almost as if the obscuris is like directly infused into the DNA and fabric of Voldemort, of Voldemort. Watch as why he is so magically potent and powerful. And the key difference between him and credence is that credence has an obscuris inside of him that he has simply learned to control. Voldemort is like the literal human form of it, like a magical cancer itself walking around in the real world. Correct. And it's like, we know, and we're about to see this like when we talk about the orphanage a little bit, and this is what makes this theory like so powerful as well is like, we

34:46see with Harry when he's a young boy that like he can, you know, he like ends up on top of a chimney when Dudley and his gang have him like cornered and he's like, I thought maybe the wind just blew me up there and it's like that is the worst execution ever. But accidental magic can manifest itself in young children. It's part of the way that they discover whether or not they're magical enough to attend Hogwarts. But like Tom isn't just doing magic. He's doing wandless magic on purpose to meet his like objectives. So he is like, he is literally performing magic like just of his own accord. Yeah. And he's doing it to like inflict pain and like part of the obscure thing is that the, it's sort of like an innately like evil existence. Right. It's like, it's not like a neutral thing. It's like, it is a bad thing. You have done a bad thing repressing the magic and this is like the consequence of it. Right. So it's like, not only is Voldemort born out of like zero love from his parents, but then his mom took it a step further and repressed her magic and like possibly infuse the

35:48obscures with Voldemort. And that's why he is just this like ultimate terror of all people. Right. And so there's a couple other pieces that as well, especially in the, the vein of storytelling is like a lot of times villains are meant to be like relatable in some capacity. Something horrible, some traumatic event happened to them and you know, Thanos is always such a good example. Like his entire populist was destroyed by a lack of resources. And so he takes it upon himself to try to solve the resource problem for all people everywhere in the world. And you know, ultimately once he achieves his ends, he just kind of goes to a planet and does nothing and lives as like weird little humble existence and that's that. Right. You know, like he's, he's not trying to sit atop some type of throne or have whatever power. But like you get that origin story, it helps make him more relatable. That can also make him more compelling. Voldemort and Tom Riddle never has that. Like in this way, if we're correct with this theory, he is in fact born evil. Right. He is always evil. It is just like the fabric of his being is evil.

36:49Right. And it's like even when you're like going to go try, I think Dumbledore one point is like, is it possible you are feeling, you know, sorry for Lord Voldemort or whatever? Um, he says, no, but Janet choice, didn't she? Not like my mother or whatever. And it's like, yeah, it Dumbledore is like, well, one, your mother had a choice too, which great, great return on that one, Dumbledore is like, my mother didn't have a choice. She had to die for me. And it's like, no, no, she did not. She did have a, like I love to hear that it's just like so like she'd have a choice. So that's what you have to do. It's like no, Harry, you don't. That's why it was so powerful. Exactly. Yes. Like, yeah, back it up there. You don't have to walk into the woods one book from now. Right. But you will, but you will. And it's like the thing is like, you might want to be like, oh, you feel bad for Maroap and you're like, but no, no, you can't feel too bad for Maroap though. Can you? Because she also like, you know, forces Tom Riddle. Right. Yes. There's that like you could not like forget that part.

37:52Like you can't. Yeah. It's, it's deeply unsettling. Yeah. It's very like, you know, there, there's such a lack of redeem ability to all players and all players. And the thing about it as well is, I mean, on the flip side, I guess you could say that like, imagine if Maroap just grew up in a completely different environment. Like it does seem like what Dumbledore is suggesting here is like she was greatly weakened by long suffering. And so it's like, you know, she was born into a house that was just cruel and mean and horrible. There's that. You know, it's, I'm not defending her behavior for ultimate clarity. But I, you know, it's in contrast to what we described with like Tom Riddle as a boy born evil. Like I don't think Maroap necessarily was born evil, but the environment poisoned her effectively. I mean, no doubt. Yeah. She doesn't have a good upbringing at all. And then I mean, the entire gaunt, like family line has been corrupted by like the idea

38:53of blood purity. Right. Yes. Also true. Yeah. Also true. I mean, like manifestation of this ideology at the end of the day too. You know, this is making me think though that again, like going back to the founders concept that something must happen somewhere in the story where someone curses Salazar's like bloodline. Mm. You know, like, like in such a way that it's not just misinterpretation. It's like this trickle down effect that like can't get away. Right. Yeah. I've always loved the idea that there was some like prophecy that like the like the the half blood air of Slytherin or whatever would be like the like the darkest wizard ever made or whatever. And so like his response to that is like, well, that's it. Like, oh, you're right. Yes. You're your first half blood child would be the. Yeah. Right. And then it's like, well, that's it. No one in my line is ever, ever, ever marrying like outside of pure blood. He's trying. He's trying to protect.

39:54He's trying to protect. To avoid this ever happening. And then, and then it does. And then it does because it's like a self-fulfilling thing. Right. Oh, I know. This is why we need founders people. We need the founder series. We've said it once. We've said it. I don't know. I've seen so many times. So many times. Yeah. Anyway. So now, yes, Harry, let's, our Harry brings up all the all the points you want him to is like, she wouldn't even say a lie for her son and Dumbledore is like, could you possibly be feeling sorry for Lord Voldemort. And it's no sit hairy quickly. And it's like said hairy quickly. It's like, but yes, but yes, but yes, like he's feeling some remorse. That's like the things like hairy can feel remorse. I think Dumbledore's proud of him in this moment, even though we don't get like one of those like flick mustache twitch, whatever. Because like this is hairy showing compassion. Dumbies very impressed. Yeah, exactly. Yes, yes. He's hairy is showing compassion for literally someone whose entire objective right now is killing him. Right. Who murdered his parents? Yes, yes. So it's a it is a kind of power like we're hairy

40:54eventually be like, yeah, I can love big deal. It's like Dumbledore right now is witnessing the actual power and scope of hairy's ability to love. Yeah, yes. Oh, and then you get the line. Yeah, no, sit there, but she had a choice, didn't she? Not like my mother, your mother had a choice too. Oh, give me some chills. So good. Yes, we're gonna chose death in spite of a son who needed her, but do not judge her too harshly, Harry. She was greatly weakened by long suffering and she never had your mother's courage. And now if you will stand like don't judge it. I mean, I feel like Dumbledore is cutting some slack too. Okay. I don't know. Love potion guys. Love potion. Not cool. Not cool. Yeah. Anyway, now we get into Dumbledore's memory where he's like, we are going to enter my memory. I think you will find it both rich in detail and satisfyingly accurate and quite humble if I might say. Yes, indeed. There is also something that is an interjected here that I feel like is further theory fodder, which is like if Dumbledore is discerning the quality and, you know, like detail accuracy of a memory,

41:55it means that not everything we witness falls quite up to snub. Like I think we can safely assume that Dumbledore's will be the best memories we ever visit. Right. And some of that is gonna, you know, kind of bounce back to us later when we have Slughorn's memory and it's like he's clearly altered it. But I still think that's different. Like to me, this would almost be like the difference between like Bob Ogden's memory and this one. Right. It's possible like some of the details are a little fuzzier in Bob Ogden's than they are here. This would be a great moment for the HBO series, not necessarily to get things wrong, but to almost use like a foggy lens for memories that aren't Dumbledores and then just have them be like very sharp, very, very, very, yeah, it's like you have like this tiny little blurred. It's like maybe it's like just like one or two percent greater on other peoples. Exactly, yes, yes. It's almost like some details could be missing. Maybe the room that we go into is not as like occupied with like small trinkets and details or whatever.

42:55It's very like sparse. And I don't know, I just think that that's kind of like a cool thing just to spend some time with. Anyway, so yes, we fall into Dumbledore's memory. Dumbledore was standing in a bustling old-fashioned London street. This is going to be 1937 for the sake of context. Right. Tom Riddle is born in 1926. And this is now of course 11 years later. So where Dumbledore is at the moment is actively still at war with Geller Grindelwald in a manner of speak. In a manner of speaking. Grindelwald is still at large. Exactly. Of course, if you want to get all like fun and canonical, like last we saw Dumbledore, the closest we've seen Dumbledore to this is at the end of secrets with Dumbledore, where he says quite a short beard, which means basically since then he's been growing that out. You know, right? Yeah, he was like, you know what I'm making a shift. Making a shift. Making a bold choice. Grindelwald always said he liked me clean shafen. So you know what? So you know what? Take that. Break up beard. Nice, nice.

43:55I think I like to think we get some like some Colin Crevy background here. It says there I am, said Dumbledore, brightly pointing ahead of them to a tall figure crossing the road in front of a horse-drawn milk cart. Oh, you know what I mean? I know what you mean. Like a family business. You know what? Actually, I feel like we can come back to that here just a couple of months as well. I've got more on the old milk cart. So I think the Crevies may have like... Crevies? Yeah, yeah, we can get a little... He's a Crevian. He's a milk-bond. Then we get a description of Dumbledore's shirt, which I just think is kind of incredible as a flamboyantly cut plum velvet suit. It's like, no, man, talk about trivia there. Talk about that. I mean, this guy is standing out tall, long-beared plum velvet suit, you know, in the summer, my new velvet in the summer. I've worn velvet on tour before, and I can assure you that if you're watching me on stage in velvet, there are sweat droplets.

44:56Yeah, yeah. And Harry is quickly noticed too. He's like, no, I suit, sir. I'm like, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, yes. I'm like, you know I'm going to say something about this. You know I'm going to say something about this. Exactly. Dumbledore merely chuckled. I love that. Dumbledore could last a little bit. I love Dumbledore. I like to think Dumbledore is staring at himself, and he's like, oh, my, what was I thinking? I bought it right off the rack and everything. I was so sold on it. The salesman, if you could have met him, Harry. Right, right. Yeah. But I wonder if, you know, like we know that the eccentric way of dress never really, like that loop never really closes with Dumbledore. I'm always wearing like the bedazzle. But it does start somewhere because like when you see him and it's like secrets of Dumbledore, he's still dressing like relatively normal. Yeah. You know, at some point he's just like screw it. Okay. You know what? You know what? I'm just going to lean in. I'm leaning in. I'm going to be me. How about that? Right. I'm going to stop trying to impress Geller with everything I do. And I'm just going to be Albus. Who is Albus?

45:56Who you know? I need to find that out. I got to find that out. Did some soul searching. Right. Did Van Life for a while. It's a Van Life, yeah. You know, just discovered he was. Me and Doge, we went around. We bought a van. We lived like Muggles for like a summer. It was great. Right. Yeah. Good stuff. Anyway, so we get into the orphanage, which the name only comes from the film, which is kind of amazing because you see it for like a blink and you miss it moment. Yeah. And yet we have always like latched on to the name Wol's orphanage, which as far as I'm concerned is what is called otherwise. Yeah. That's a great example of like a thing where it's like like I would count it as Canaan. It's like, it's not included in the book, but they added the detail in the movie and it doesn't change anything otherwise. So sure. Yeah. I think that's a perfectly acceptable way to look at it. Like it's not conflicting with anything that we know. Otherwise, it doesn't harm anything. And you know, it feels right. It always felt right. Right. I don't know if there's like something about like the idea of Wol.

46:57It's like scratchy. It's scratchy. It's like irritating. It's a nice material, but also like under refined. It's not that good. And it does feel like that's how the orphanage is going to be described. Like Mrs. Cole seems like a fairly competent person who really just needs more rest. Right. And like she needs like a three more members of staff. Right. And then like, you know, it seems like the kids are like well cared for if not like wearing some like well worn clothes. Right. You know, like it's like it's like tidy, but like it's messy because it's an old house. Right. But it's otherwise like well maintained. Right. And maybe it's like, you know, like the broom has gone across the floor. Right. You know, maybe it hasn't been like refinished if you know what I mean. But yeah. So then we have one of my favorite little moments to quote here from the Jim Dale audio book at least because Donald original say good afternoon. I have an appointment with a Mrs. Cole and the girl who greets him is like, oh, just a mile. Mrs. Cole. Then does quote this all the time. I love it.

47:57Mrs. Cole. Mrs. Cole. The whole place was shabby, but spotlessly clean. There you go. There you go. That's what I was going for. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. Better said than the way I went for it with my broom analogy. Yeah. Then incomes Mrs. Cole who's sort of like a, you know, a different version of opportunity in some way. She had a sharp featured face that appeared more anxious than unkind and she was talking over her shoulder to another apron helper. She walked down towards the double door and take this high down upstairs to Martha. Billy Stubbs has been picking up his scabs in Eric Walley's oozing all over the sheets. Gross. Yeah. Yes indeed. This is just further proof though that Mrs. Cole is just doing her best. Like she knows what's up with each of the kids. She's actively, you know, administering help to each of them with, you know, whatever limited resources they have at their disposal. So it's like, because, you know, if you, if you step outside of the, you know, Harry Potter saga a little bit, there is a critique being made about orphanages. But I think the thing is more like the idea of an orphanage

48:59not the people who run them, not the kids who are there. You know, it's just sort of like, I think that the general idea is that, you know, being inside of like a more standard household is typically going to be better for these kids. Right. Yeah. So anyway, there's that. But obviously the people involved are doing just the very best they could possibly. Right. So it's also going to be said she's going to say that Billy Stubbs and Eric Walley here have got the chicken pox. Like chicken pox on top of everything else. Do you think it's chicken pox or do you think it's Voldemort? I think there's a good possibility that it's Voldemort. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure about that too. Absolutely do. Yeah. He's been, yeah, because it feels like this is like the way that he can like maintain control because it's like these other kids are clearly dealing with things, but he's not, but he's not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's not. But I guess that's like, like wizards don't really get like muggle ailments so much. I guess that's also true. So maybe he just kind of is uniquely positioned there. Yeah. But yeah, good afternoon said to Baudor, holding out his hand. Mrs. Cole simply gaved to which I just put LOL. LOL. Right. Looking as a son of a giraffe, I just crossed her threshold.

50:01Right. So I am fairly certain, reading between the lines here, Numbledore does not actually have an appointment with Mrs. Cole and he's just kind of doing a little bit of like coaxing. Right. It's like when a Jedi mind trick my way into this place. That's right. These are the droids you are looking for. Right. You have an appointment with me. Right. Yeah. Because he says, my name is Abel Stemodore. You very kindly invited me here today. Mrs. Cole blinked, apparently deciding that Numbledore was not a hallucination. Oh, yes. Well, well then, you better come to my room. Yeah, I don't think she believes him just yet. Right. Yes. Yep. I am here as I told you in my letter to discuss Tom Rue, then an entrance for his future. Are you family? Oh, I'm a teacher. I've come to offer a Tom, a place at my school and she said this is where Mrs. Cole's like a little too sharp for Numbledore here. Right. Yes. What school was this then? It is called Hogwarts. And how come you're interested in Tom? He believes he has qualities we are looking for. You mean he's one of scholarship? How could he have done?

51:02He's never been entered for one. Well, his name has been down for our school since birth. Oh, we're just to tell him his parents. This is where it's like she's like, I know what happened. Right. There's no way his parents would have done that. Right. I was here. I was here. I watched your die. Okay. Exactly. Yeah. Also his name being down for our school since birth in case anybody's wondering what that means. Right. And that's what it makes it sound like anyway. Yes. Actually, you know what's funny is that this is the exact same phrase that Hagrid uses to the Dersley's. You're right. He says he's not that different. It's not that different. He's trying to think of the Diagon Alley. Right. It's very much similar thing. Yes. Yes indeed. Taken from the place he was raised as an orphan. Yeah. So we have clear mirroring going on. Clear mirroring happening here.

52:03Right. I got to say I don't super love the way Dumbledore handles the situation myself. Like with the busting out of drink. Well, well, he does two things. He's like, all that's happened is Mrs. Cole has asked perfectly reasonable questions. And Dumbledore's solution is to be witcher and then get her drunk. Yeah. Yeah. Just like, could you not like, I don't know. Yeah. You meant like the smallest hurdle and you're like, that's it. Especially someone getting me my wand. This must not be the most uncommon activity for somebody like Dumbledore to go and do. Right. It's just like, you know, there are kids out there in the world who need to be informed that they're going to be attending Hogwarts. Right. And so it's like, there must be a pro call for this. Right. And so I think that's the way of letting people know like what they're not going to really understand or believe. Naturally for Dumbledore. It's like, you want to have a drink? You want to have a drink with me. It never actually says he takes a sip of it. He doesn't actually have a drink. He gets two glasses out in the bottle of gin and then Mrs. Cole was like, well, can I

53:04offer you some gin as if she got it out? Right. Yes. Yeah. So Mrs. Coles, I slid out a focus and back again as she gazed intently at the blank paper for a moment. So this is Dumbledore's side to piece of paper and is basically like, read this. There's nothing on the paper. This is a real. These are the droids you're looking for a moment. It is. Yes. Absolutely. It seems perfectly in order. No, it doesn't. Right. Yeah. Then her eyes fell upon a bottle of gin. May I offer you a glass of gin? Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Dumbledore beaming. And also, I mean, also just absolutely seems like Dumbledore knows that this woman has a bit of a drinking problem and is using it to his advantage. Maybe a little bit. You know, I mean, that's the thing. It was that she's so, she's so worn out. Like maybe, maybe what she needs is just a moment to like, like step back and do something for herself. Right. Like I feel like Mrs. Coles is like kind of like an underrated character on the whole. Like she's, I don't know, that mean like I never really read it that way in Jim Dale's voice is so like a boy stress. It's almost like she's like a softer version of like Aunt Marge a little bit.

54:06But like as you're reading it, it's like she's not really doing anything wrong. She's just doing her job, man. Exactly. Yeah. She drained her own glass in one gulp, smacking her lips frankly. It's like, ah, she, too much. I'm also like, yeah, who drinks gin like this? You know, I have no idea. I know. Yeah. Strictly a mixer if you ask me. Yeah, yeah, it's very, it's very tiny. Very tiny. Yeah. Junior per. I mean, I don't mind, I don't mind gin, but yeah, I wouldn't drink it like this. Right. Right. Yes. Through with the Gryffindor, sponsored by BetterHelp. Okay. So you know like the tropical island question, like what three things would you bring in the answer is obviously Machete Tarpa and Yo-Yo, right? But here's another. If you can wake up tomorrow and simply be better at one thing, what would it be? For me, it's the past and I know it's actually not as depressing as it sounds. I like my past, but sometimes I have a hard time letting the hard parts go. I know they're far behind me. I know they can no longer hurt me, but still they do. And no matter what your answer to that question is, better is a feeling and it's defined

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57:14from Professor Trellani at one point where she's like, it is clear to me, young Harry, that you were born in midwinter. And with, you know, or whatever. And he's like, no, I was born in July, but like what she's actually detecting is the Horkrux inside of Harry, which was indeed born midwinter. Exactly. Yeah. There's also a little bit of like a end of the month thing going on that we have here where it's like Harry's born on July 31st. His parents were attacked on October 31st and now Baltimore is killed are is born on December 31st. That's all those right? Yeah. I mean, if you want to get into like the 7 and 13 thing as much as you want, like Harry is born as the seventh month dies, obviously. But Baltimore is born as close to being inside of the 13th month as there is possible. Even though there's not a 13th month. Yeah, it's a good point. It's a good point. Yes. And we are here in chapter 13. And we're in chapter 13 to help back to that. That's a very good point. I had never never looked at it that way before. Yeah. But yeah, so Mrs. Cole is kind of her gnawing, Donald Orr, with sort of what unfolded on that particular evening. It seems like Marope is not really somebody that like looks like they're doing that well.

58:20Yeah. I hope it looks like a papa and I won't lie. She was right to hope too because she was no beauty. Yeah. Oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah. He was to be named Tom for his father and Marvolo for her father. Yes, I know. Funny name, isn't it? Would you say at all that I don't know whether or not I would think this, would it confirm that Marvolo and Morphin in therefore maybe Marope do not attend Hogwarts because the name Marvolo would be specific enough that Donald Orr might be like Marvolo. Right. Yeah. You know, he probably like Marvolo is not exactly shy about his like relationship to. Yeah. It's so weird. It's like because they're so proud of their slither and lineage, but it doesn't seem like they've gone to school. Right. You know, but we knew there is it's like canonical anyway that like further up their line, there's a Corvina's gaunt who also opened to the Chamber of Secrets at Hogwarts because he's the one who like updated it forward like the indoor plumbing or something.

59:23The plumbing. Yeah. So other gaunts have discovered the Chamber of Secrets. No one's unleashed the monster in the same way that Baltimore does. Right. Yeah. So there is that like we know there is a history of gaunts going to the school, but it doesn't look at some point. They have just like gotten so in their own way. Like I can see Marvolo being like, I don't need to go to school. I'm still in zone A. You know, whatever, you know. Right. Right. Yes and deed. Yes and deed. But yeah, so we get we get the full origin story for the name. So Tom and also kind of interestingly like not Thomas. Yeah. Just right. Marvolo, I would throw off the anagram, you know. Exactly. Yeah. And then last name of Riddle and she's going to say we wonder whether you'd come from a circus, which again during this exact time period, we know in Crimes of Grindelwald that there is the circus arcana. That's true. You know, which is of a measure of prominence. It doesn't really connect in any other way that we would know off to Marope in her backstory. But it just is the case that the guinea comes from that is that we're in the guinea comes

1:00:24from. That's good point. It's good point. So there, I guess the conversion from the guinea, the person into the guinea, the snake almost shares the same about timeline as Tom Riddle. That's true. Which is kind of fascinating to connect those dots. But anyway, so let's continue here. We named him just as he said and it seems so important to the girl, but no Tom, no Marvolo, no any kind of Riddle ever came looking for him, no one in the family at all. So he said at the orphanage, he's been here. Ever since. No one wanted to me. No one's come to adopt anyone. You think it'd be like, new born baby boy. Right. Yes. Quite the good looking one. Quite the good looking one. Which is saying something. If you're seeing his mother, I say. I say indeed. But yeah, then this is where she's starting to, she has another healthy drink of gin. And then she starts to sort of like reveal some truths. And these are probably things that on the whole Dumbledore is not that unexpected to here. Right. Because she's going to say, he's a funny boy. And Dumbledore's like, yes, I, you know, I thought he might be.

1:01:25Yeah, thought he might be. That's not uncommon. Yes. Go on. Yes. But then she says that he was a funny baby too. He hardly ever cried. Which I actually think is kind of like an interesting detail to include. Because if you can't love, then you can't like, yearn or miss like the closeness of a parent. Sure. You know? Yeah. And he like measured content. Just like angry then. Yeah. Like crying baby. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Or like yeah, like not cutting your way, which feels very tom to be upset about. It does. Yes. But then so he says he was, now she like qualifies a little bit further. Then when he got older, he was odd. And Dumbledore was like, well, I think he's probably still still fishing. Like what kind of magic is this boy performed? You know? Right. But odd in what way? And then she's like, okay, well. Hmm. You're definitely taking me the way, right? It's about to drop some weird things on you. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I don't know why like this particular phrasing. It's like nothing I can say can, nothing I say can change that. Nothing said Dumbledore.

1:02:26You'll be taking him away. Whatever. Whatever. Whatever. Whatever. I like the way that Dumbledore like meets her at her like way of speech. I know. You know, that's a good one. She's squintured, though, is deciding whether or not to trust him. Apparently she decided she could. He scares the other children. Yeah. You mean he's a bully? Yeah. He must be. I think he must be. What interesting phrasing. And I think he must be. But like go back to what we've already seen of Mrs. Cole. Like she's sharp. She pays attention. Yeah. You know? And so it's like the fact that he is getting away with this without her seeing means that like even as like a young boy, he's like aware of how he's watched and when to seize his moments. Right. Like he is already good at like operating in the shadows. And it's like she's like, she'd know it's like she, you know, she's got like some big crazy, beautiful mind board, which is like, it's got to be Tom. Exactly. Everything buts the Tom, but I've never seen him do a thing. That's right. Yep. Yeah.

1:03:27So then to go back to what you said before, we're going to get some of the examples of things that have happened. Like Billy Stubbs is one of the ones who has chicken pox. Yeah. Presently. Yeah. And so sure enough, she's going to say Billy Stubbs Rabbit, which is another one of those things from like, this is already a place that seems like it's limited on resources. And there's a pet. Yeah. Which, that's not, that's not the same thing. It's like, how does he have a rabbit? Right. It's not really my place to have an opinion on this or anything, but like, okay, sure. Sure. But yeah, Tom said he didn't do it. And I don't see how he could have done, but even so, he didn't hang itself from the rafters that hit it. Yeah. But then like, why immediately suspect Tom? I know. Yeah. I shouldn't think so. No. He was like, but I'm jiggered if I know how we got to them to do it. All I know is he and Billy hadn't argued the day before. And then obviously I suspected him of hanging his rabbit from the rafters. I know how these things happened. Like, have you been around kids at all? They argue every single day, you know? Right, right. Yes. And then on a summer outing, we take them out to, you know, once a year, once a year, once.

1:04:27Once. I'm appalled. Well, anyway, Amy Benson and Dennis Bishop. So this is, now I'm back to my milkman theory. Oh, Dennis. Yeah. Dennis. Could be Colin and Dennis's maternal grandfather. Okay. You know, that, I think that that would have to be how it would go. And then the name Dennis is selected for a young Colin Crevy. So do you suppose that Dennis Bishop was adopted by the milkman? That's exactly what I was saying. Exactly. We know that they're in the same place. We know that same time. Yeah. We got milkman profession, guy named Dennis. Right. Muggles. Muggles. Boom. Near magic. Near magic. I mean, if we're not we even a tapestry of their, of their family tree, I don't know what we're doing. I don't know what we're doing. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe, maybe he marries Amy Benson. Who knows? Could be. Maybe that's his like great. I probably just regular grandmother grandmother grandmother. Grandmother. Yeah.

1:05:27Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. We don't need to go that far back. Right. Right. Yes. All we ever got out of them is that they'd gone into a cave with Tom Riddle. He swore they'd just gone exploring, but something happened in there. I'm sure of it. What an earthy thing happened. What's the thing? This is like one of those details where like we talk of the pensive sometimes and this is kind of like another side theory. But like if the drink of despair found inside of the cave is almost like a sibling to the pensive. Right. Because the pensive has this like unusual quality about it that draws people to it. Yeah. Right. So like when it like the cabinet latches itself or unlatches itself when Harry's sitting in there like during to witness like party crouches. Yeah. Try on everything. It's almost as if like it like he's sitting there alone and it's like you need some information like it calls. And then if you even go back to like the founders like what happens is like Rewena has the dream about following the like war. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:06:27Through the woods and they go and retrace those steps and they start digging and they find the pensive. The pensive. So it's like these are things that sort of like speak to you. And so I'd be curious if they're like out at the countryside. It's like what would compel young Tom Riddle to think there's anything to be seen unless this particular brand of like dark magic is in fact calling to right. And then if you go in and especially if you're an orphan, it's like I can't you know obviously speak to what their actual experiences were. But if they were to consume the drink of despair like is it entirely possible that they had to like witness some of their own worst memories, which was possible. Which is like otherwise like the we don't. I wouldn't say I believe that the cave is already full of the in theory. Yeah. I might not even have the lake. It may not have the lake. Yes. So like those obstacles could be things that like Tom does supplement to the eventual obstacle. But probably this because like even the stone wall to enter it has been like it seems like a Baltimore obstacle. It does. Yeah. But I want to say that the basin has carvings around it. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. I think the basin predates.

1:07:28I don't think that's a Baltimore creation. Right. Yes. Yes. How they get in there and what would have caused such trauma. Okay. They drink the drink of despair. They drink the drink of despair. Oh, that would do it. Yeah. Pretty bad. Yep. Because he says there have been a lot of funny things. Something happened in there. I'm sure of it. Yeah. They've never quite right afterwards. Yeah. I'm neither stumbled or I'm sure you what. I'm for hindrings the drink of despair. That's true. Yeah. He kind of dies promptly. He dies promptly. Yeah. Spoilers. Yeah. I don't think many people will be sorry to see the back of him. Then you get a very funny British sentence here because Dumbledore is going to say, like, you understand that you will have to return here. At the very least, every summer. And she says, oh, well, that's better than a whack on the nose with a rusty poker, which I know, like, is it that bad? Well, apparently this phrase is, it's an old British saying, and it just means better than nothing. Okay. So it's actually like, this is not saying, like, oh, that's sexy has to come back.

1:08:29It's just like, okay. At least if he's gone for the school year, that's better than nothing. Okay. I'll take what I can get. Is apparently what that phrase means. But if you are in fact British and know this phrasing and see it differently, just let us know. Okay. But that was what my research came up with because I've always been like, what a phrase. Okay. Okay. So she's saying literally, I've always thought this was like a sarcastic comment. Like, oh, that's better than a whack on the nose with a rusty poker, you know? Right. Like, I'd rather have the poker is what it sounds like. It does seem if it's sarcastic. Right. Like, it's like, you've serious. He has to come back at all. Like, I'm really hoping he's going to be gone. But no, it does in fact seem to mean, okay, we'll take it. That's better than nothing. All right. Okay. That's a different interpretation than that. Okay. That is better, I suppose. Yeah. Let's see. And then they go to see the orphans. Hair is all they're all wearing the same kind of grayish tunic. They look reasonably well cared for. But there was no denying this was a grim place in which to grow up. But still possibly better than hair he's care, you know? I don't know. You know what?

1:09:30The people who work here at least cares for the kids, whereas like, Harry is actively and intentionally harassed for almost his entire life. I know. I think the grayish tunic is interesting because like before Harry is accepted to hog warts, all bettunia is like dying like a bunch of Dudley's old clothes like gray. And it looked like elephant skin. It looked like, yeah, elephant skin. And it's like those kind of the same situation hair he was about to head into. Right. Yep. Tom, you've got a visitor. This is Mr. Dunbaton. Sorry. Dunderball. Dunderball. Yeah. He's come to tell you, well, I'll let him do it. I'm like, I'm going to lay down. Woo. It's the time just like exchanges like Lance with Albus here. And he's like drunk. Drunk again. Bit of a problem. Right. And we funny if that was like the first little exchange. But of course it isn't. Yeah. Yeah. There was no trace of the Gauntz and Tom Riddle's face. Marope had gotten her dying wish. He was his handsome father in miniature, told for 11 years, dark head and pale.

1:10:34His eyes narrowed slightly as he took in Dumbledore's eccentric appearance. There was a moment of silence. How do you do Tom? The boy has a tailed. It's always like already like suspicious. It's just like, do I trust you? What are you doing here? You're new. I don't like you. Right. Yes, indeed. Actually, I had a note here that I wanted to just jump back to very quickly. There was no trace of the Gauntz and Tom Riddle's face. This is kind of interesting because it's almost as if like this is what in time Voldemort will become like his face will become physically gaunt. Right. You're right. You know, so it's like he doesn't look like his heritage on that side of the family, but he will become that. Right. That is very true. Yeah. Anyway, so brief aside there. So Dumbledore introduces himself as Professor Dumbledore to which Tom immediately sort of like latches on to. He's sort of like, is that like, doctor? What are you here for? Dachese and you in to have a look at me. You know, so he's carrying himself very differently from how we know he will in the future. It seems like this kind of like own the room, intimidation factors, how he's gotten by

1:11:37so far. And Dumbledore I think is about to teach him that politeness will get him further than that brand of behavior. Oh, you're right. Yes. Yes. And that is who he ultimately comes while he's at Tom Riddle as like the charming young orphan boy. Yes. One of our favorite quotes here as well where he says, I don't believe you said, Riddle, she wants me looked at. Doesn't she? Town of the truth. Town of the truth. And then it comes out like such a command. Yes. Ringing force. Yes. He was glaring at Dumbledore. And after a few seconds, Riddle stopped glaring though he looked if anything where you're still. Who are you? And so Dumbledore is basically trying to explain, you know, like I'm here to work with you to come to my school. And he's sort of like he's as skeptical as ever. You can't kid me the asylum. That's where you're from, isn't it? Professor, yes, of course. Well, I'm not going to see that I'll catch the one who should be in the asylum. I never did anything to little Amy Benson or Dennis Bishop. You and you can ask them. They'll tell you. Yeah. Wow. One, paranoid. Two. Well, you're lying, of course.

1:12:38Yes. Right. But does he also intimidated Amy and Dennis into not speaking like a million percent? Yeah. Like lying on his behalf. Is that like you can ask him? They'll tell you. They'll tell you. It's like, yeah, because if you tell, I will be worse. Yes, exactly. Yep. Yes. And then Domodo says, I am a teacher. And if you will sit down calmly to which I don't know why he's asking him to like freak out and sit down. Exactly. Yeah. It's like I'm already freaking out. Right. Yeah. I mean, if you would rather not come to the school, nobody will force you. I thought he said them try. It's like, okay, dude, you're 11. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Double door. Double door is not missing a beat here, though. It's like, however these conversations go, this must be like in his mind. Like, somewhat expected. Right. Yeah. Dog versus a school for people with special abilities. I'm not mad. I know you are not mad. Hogwarts is not a school for mad people. It is a school of magic. And right away, this is going to like recalibrate how he's like relating to this conversation. Right.

1:13:38Magic. That's right. It's magic what I can do. What is it you can do? Oh, so what's, I can make things move without touching them. I can make animals do what I want them to do without training them. I can make bad things happen to people who annoy me. I can make them hurt if I want to. Oh, too honest, too fast, Tom. Too honest, too fast. Major miscalculation. Major miscalculation. Major miscalculation. This is what is going to like, Dumbledore being here for this, he knows the real character that lies beneath the surface of the charming riddle. Do you think on the previous page at the bottom it says, riddle it frozen, his face is expressionless, but his eyes were flicking back and forth between Dumbledore as they're trying to catch one of them lying. Do you think he already has some measure of legitimacy? Totally. I didn't catch it, but yes. Yeah. I think that he is probably trying to summon something. It's almost like being like a Metamorph match. It's like he's not like a learned, what you can't learn to be a Metamorph match. But it's not like he's a learned of the Gillamans. It's like he is a Ligilemans. Right.

1:14:38Yeah. I mean, he describes himself as the world's greatest Ligilemans. Right. But if he's a natural, then it's like, oh, everybody else can only learn. I am. Right. Yeah. He just like, I just know how to do it. I've just always done it. Right. Yes, indeed. Let's see here. No, that's a very good catch. But yes, right away though, Tom is sort of going to be like trembling. He's sort of like, okay, okay, something is happening. I knew I was different. I knew I was different. Yes. Well, you know, quite right, said Dumbledore. You are a wizard. Riddle lifted his head. His face was transfigured, which it will be eventually. Yeah. Not the last time. Right. There was a wild happiness upon it. Yet for some reason, he did not make him better looking on the contrary. His finely carved features seem somehow refer. His expression almost beats you. Shadow of the beast within indeed. Yeah. Yeah. The whole I knew I was different. I knew I was special. That basically becomes his motto for the rest of his life. It does. Yeah. Yeah. And it's even interesting as well because like this is actually of all people to compare it to, I think, Lockhart is born into a family.

1:15:41And because he's magical, like for 11 years, he is seen as remarkably special. Right. And then he gets to school only to realize that everyone else there is also special. And the thing that made him different no longer makes him different. And then he has to go to look extraordinary links to make himself stand out. Right. Tom believes he's special. Gustel School realizes everybody's magical and still believes he's special. Oh, he does still stand out. He does still stand out. In a way, the Lockhart does not. That is very true. Yeah. Yeah. But now Tom is completely 180. He's absolutely going to Hogwarts. Yes. Yes. And then you kind of have like one of those pieces of continuity with Dumbledore. That's very good because he's going to say like, prove it. Tell the truth again. And Dumbledore raises his eyebrows. He's going to be like, okay, if you're coming, he's like, yes, of course I'm coming. He's like, then you will address me as Professor. Oh, sir. Right. I love this. Yeah. Riddle's expression hardened for the most fleeting moment before he said an unrecognizably polite voice. I'm sorry, sir. Please Professor, could you show me? Right. His recalibration is so fast.

1:16:42Instantaneous. Yeah. But I think that this could be the origin point of Riddle's charm. Like this is when it begins. Right. He immediately learns like, oh, that's how I get by there. Okay. Good to know. Good to know. I'll do it. Yes. Yeah. And we know that he will use it well. Yes. Yes. Yes. So, but he's like, could you show me some magic? And this is something I also think is kind of interesting because what Dumbledore does is draw his wand from the inside of his pocket. And he lights the wardrobe on fire. I know. This is so great because it's like Dumbledore. It's like, it's like as if Tom thinks that he has been like, like, excused for the way he's been acting so far. And Dumbledore is like, no, I got you. I clocked you. Don't worry. Yeah. I see right through you, sir. Right. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're not going to, you wouldn't be satisfied with me simply making like, you know, a toy levitate. You want something big. Right. Yeah. You want something big. And it's like, yeah, I guess what? I'm going to let your stuff on fire. This is doubly interesting. Is that when Hagrid shows up, lighting the fire is one of the very first things that he does. Yup.

1:17:42The hot of the rock. Yes. Which means that like, it almost makes you wonder, it's like, is this like a common, like, recruitment tactic? Like it's something that like, you, like, somebody believes you couldn't just manifest from fire is like, you know, it sort of has like a magicalness about it, you know, conjuring it from nowhere. Probably feels like a very easy bridge to magic. Right. Yes, indeed. Yep. And Riddle jumped to his feet, but it's, it's not because he cares about all of his worldly possessions inside. It is, I think instead because he is like witnessing like the extent of what power can look like. Oh, you think so. That would be my take. Okay. Yeah. That's true too. And then he's got all of his little trophies in there as well. Also that. Yes. Yeah. And then this is doubly interesting. I think is that like, he's going to ask about a wand and double there's like all a good time. But then he's going to say, I think there was something trying to get out of your wardrobe and sure enough, there was a faint rattling that could be heard inside of it. For the first time, Riddle looked frightened, opened the door, said Dumbledore. And then we go in, we get the bear clothes, a small cardboard box shaking and rattling

1:18:43as though there were several frantic mice trapped inside of it. Do you suppose that this whole ward, like the fact that this happens to specifically a wardrobe is like a lion, which in the wardrobe sort of nod happening? It could be, it wouldn't seem uncommon to me for fantasy authors to specifically like have little wings to one another. Sort of like Tom's entrance into the magical world involves a wardrobe. You're right. Like that feels like very on the nose. It feels if that you're absolutely crafty. I agree. This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. Last year I went through many different life changes. I needed to take a pause and examine how I was feeling in the inside to better show up for the ones who need me to be my best version of myself. When you're navigating life's changes, Talkspace can help. Talkspace is the number one rated online therapy, bringing you professional support from licensed therapists and psychiatry providers that you can access anytime, anywhere. Living a busy life, navigating a long distance relationship, becoming a first step father,

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1:20:49through September 9th. Whether you're refreshing your interior or exterior, we've got the colors to bring your vision to life. And with delivery, getting everything to your door is easier than ever. Shop online to have it delivered or visit your neighborhood Serwen Williams store. Click the banner to learn more. Retail sales only, some exclusions apply. See store for details. Delivery available on qualifying orders. Do you also think that when he is doing this, Dumbledore has a piece of magic because he's not actually burning the wardrobe? Like, is he checking it? Like is there like a scanning? Is there something going on that like reveals? He's stolen trinkets. I think it's on the other page. It says like what we already read, Riddle had frozen his face expressionless, but his eyes were flicking back and forth between each of Dumbledore's as they're trying to catch one at the line. He thinks he's staring into Dumbledore's eyes without concern that Dumbledore is staring right back into his. That would be classic Voldemort as well. Right. I think that he is using a power the opponent doesn't have, but Dumbledore does. Yeah, Dumbledore's just like, yeah, I got it. Right.

1:21:50And Harry says this all the time. Like, he's much more aware of the sensation of being x-rayed. Yeah. I think, I mean, Dumbledore, he's already heard from Mrs. Cole that like he's been kind of mean. He just heard from Tom Riddle himself that I didn't do anything to those kids, which is more or less saying I absolutely did something to those kids. 100% and then he stared directly into his eyes and now Dumbledore was like, I'm going to kind of, I'm going to, I'm going to do the thing where I try and scare you straight like real fast. Real fast. Like, let's just get out ahead of this. I'll forgive you for all of your previous sins, but just so you know, this is how it's going to be. Right. And then we have a hard boundary. Hard boundary. Yes. It won't work. Right. And right away, yes. So is there anything in that box you ought not to have? Yes. I suppose I said. So he's immediately using the sir, you know, like that's already, that's already dropping in. He's picking it up very quickly. Open it to Dumbledore. And so of course, he spills it onto the contents out onto his bed. We have a yo-yo, a silver thimble and a tarnished mouth organ. So trivia.

1:22:51Yeah. And you know, once for you from the box, he's not quivering lay quite still upon the blankets. And basically, Dumbledore is going to say you were going to, you've returned these things. The evening is not tolerated. And that's it. You know, like, and Riddle did not look remotely abashed. He's, I think for him, he's like best cost of admission. No problem. I can do that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to enjoy stealing, but if I have to stop, you know, what's fine? Right. Right. Whatever. Obviously, the trophies are another key piece of Dumbledore's lesson to Harry right now. Right. This is something that he wants him to see very specifically. These are the trophies that he is taking from the people who he has mistreated. He cherishes these like little objects not for what they are, but for what they represent. Right. Which is like, particularly nasty bits of magic. That's right. So, but these are also the horcruxes. Right. I wonder if we could reverse engineer anything with the yo-yo silver thimble and tarnished mouth organ. Just wondering the exact same thing. Yeah. Because we know that he is now, you know, there's at least a handful of kids we could possibly like work with, see why he would have taken these particular objects from them. Right. I mean, it's probably the three kids we've heard of, meaning like Dennis Bishop Amy Benson

1:23:53and Billy Stubbs. I don't even want to say this. You don't suppose that yo-yo could have been in a way the murder weapon, do you? The murder, oh, for the rabbit. Yeah. Oh, could be. Could be. Very much could be. Yeah. I don't want that. Gross. Yeah. That's kind of. That's. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. Well, further thought required, but yeah, we'll jump off there. Okay. Let's see here. I wish you not only to use magic, but to control it. You have inadvertently, I'm sure, we've been using our powers in a way that is neither taught nor tolerated at our school. So this is him again laying a boundary because I think at this point, Dumbledore knows that he is not just doing it inadvertently, but he is like offering him sort of like an outing. Right. Yeah. It's sort of a bone. He's saying like, look, I get it. I get it. You know, you're not, you're not the first. You won't be the last. Right. People do this sometimes, you know, but you got to tighten up. Right. We're not doing that. Yeah. So you're not going to let's see here. We punish lawbreakers still more severely. All new wizards must accept that in entering our world.

1:24:54They abide by our laws, to which I think Tom Riddle is sort of like, fine, I'll just change them later. No big deal. You know, which is what he will do. Right. You're telling me that the only way to do what I want is to abide by the laws. If surfacto, I must make the laws if surfacto, I must be in charge. Right. So it's amazing how this conversation is almost creating a blueprint for like it's almost as if like Dumbledore is like giving him the obstacles. Right. You know, yeah. But like at the same time, like Voldemort is revealing like so many weaknesses and like tendencies to him. Yes. Yes. Then there is the, haven't got any money, but fortunately there's a fun at Hogwarts for those who require assistance, which is, you know, just good to know. Yeah. Riddle asks about where do you buy spell books? Dumbledore's going to explain and die on alley and he's sort of like, I can help you find everything. And Riddle's like, you're coming with me, which at first feels more like a hairy question. Like, oh, that would be so great. Yeah. Like certainly if you, I don't need you. I don't need you. Yeah. It's like, let me stop you right there. I got it. Right. Right.

1:25:54Then he says, I go around London on my own all the time to which I just wrote in box all road. Yeah. Box all road, box all road. You're going to retire or something? Got a diary. You're going to want a box all road. I doubt it. I kind of doubt it myself. Yeah. Right. I know. I agree. Does it feel like all of your, it feels like that would have been one of the possessions we just saw. You're right. You know, yeah. I doubt he's shopping at a muggle shop after finding out he's a wizard. Also, he just says I haven't got any money. Of course, I wouldn't put a pass. I'm just simply steal it. Well, that's true. But he's not shopping one way or another. Not shopping. Yeah. That's Mertel's diary, man. All day. All day. Yeah. The thing she would have on her, it totally makes sense. She's in the bathroom crying. She'd be writing in her diary. It's like, it's not an unbelievable scene to pick. Nope. And then she accidentally dies. Tom doesn't mean to kill her. She's not even the intended target. But then there's an object nearby and he can read the work right? Right. I also said there's like a little thing here where it's like Dumbledore draws out the leather money pouch and Tom just takes it. He just like takes it. And it specifically says without thinking Dumbledore. And it's like, you can immediately see the entitlement in his eyes is like, why would I thank you when this is what's due to me?

1:26:55Right. It's a fun for this. Why am I thanking you? This is why it's here. Exactly. Yeah. This is not your generosity. This is how this is the work. Exactly. That's exactly what this is your generosity. Yeah. Right. Then you get a very telling detail as well because Dumbledore is just sort of like, okay, if you want to go by yourself, no problem. You're going to get a leaky cauldron. You'll be able to see it, although it muggles around you and the non-magical people will not ask for Tom the barman. He's enough for a member as he shares your name. And then right away, it's sort of like, yeah, like Riddle hates this. You just like the name Tom. And it's like, there are lots of Tom's. Tom's. Yes. Yeah. So yeah, this is a very revealing 10 minutes for little, little Voldemort here. Yes. Because it was my father, it was it. He was called Tom Rd. They've told me. Dumbledore was like, I'm afraid I don't know. It just sort of like, it feels like Dumbledore probably would know, you know? Like if a Tom Riddle came through Hogwarts. It does feel like it may it would have come up in some capacity. Yeah. You're right. And maybe that's just like one of those where it's like you can grant a little bit of

1:27:55leniency because like, would you just remember every single student who ever came to the school? I don't know. I don't know. But if you recall, Dumbledore described not earlier in this chapter his own memory as being rich in detail and satisfyingly accurate. Yeah. That was going to come back to get me. Yeah. Right. You know? But then we have another telling thing here, my mother can't have been magic or she wouldn't have died. Oh man. Man. That's his thesis. Yeah. You know, like he is going to use magic to create immortality. Look at that. There it is. It says he is not 10 minutes into knowing he's a wizard and he has factored out that magic should mean immortality. Right. Magic should mean you can't die. Right. But it's also interesting because it's not like he doesn't apply this to anybody else. Like he's like one mother couldn't have been magic because she couldn't have died. But it's also like I don't think any part of him gets the school and he's like, wow, you guys are all immortal. Cool. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's very weird. It must have been him. So when I've got all my stuff, when do I come to this Hogwarts or whatever, then he gives tells me about the train ticket concrustration.

1:28:57Doesn't tell him how to get on the platform. So we'll just assume he figures it out or runs into like, you know, a nice pure blood family that takes them in or whatever. Yeah. I don't think that happens. I don't think that happens either. Not even a little. Yeah. So we get the explanation as to how to how to get to school. And then very last thing he throws in, I could speak just things. I found out when we were on, when we've been to the country on trips, they find me. Maybe that's what they did in the cave. Yeah, just just spooked him to death. He's just like, hey, Amy and Dennis, watch this. And then there's like 100 snakes. They're like, I hate this. I don't like this one bit. Yeah. This is bad. Yep. I probably wouldn't be the same either. It does feel like this could be the moment for Dumbledore to just basically put the pieces together and understand that this makes him the air of Sutheran. Right. You know, it does seem like maybe, especially after the chamber gets opened in a few years here. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. You can speak just things.

1:29:58You know, that's so weird because I was also there to speak just things. This is like one of the odds. How unusual. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Okay. But that is going to basically conclude this portion of the memory. So at this point, we're going to go back to Dumbledore's office where Dumbledore is going to ask Harriet to sit down. Right. And so Harry starts reliving and he says he believed it much quicker than I did. I mean, when you told him he was wizard, I didn't believe Hagrid a fish when he told me. It's like because you're a very humble person, Harry. That's right. This is the exact opposite. Yeah. Riddle on the other hand was perfectly ready to believe that he was almost his word. Special. Special. Yes. But then this is also doubly interesting. Did you know then, Ashterry and Dumbledore is going to interject, did I know that I had just met the most dangerous dog wizard of all time? No, I had no idea. And this is fascinating because when Harry is speaking to Dumbledore in Kings Cross Station and finally getting the information about Dumbledore's backstory and asking about Kaelic Grindelwald, like he will say, did I know?

1:31:00Right. Leads with the same three words. But who Grindelwald truly was in my heart, I think I did. And it's like, that means that at 17, he was able to spot the evil inside of this person he had a very close connection with. But where you might let bias stand in the way, not believe that the person you love is evil, but he saw it. And then on the flip side, this is speaking to a kid who clearly is intense and has been bullying other kids. And he doesn't spot it. Right. I think the phrasing of the like, did I know, like leading into both of these, they feel like little mirrors of each other because Grindelwald is the spiritual predecessor to Tom Riddle. Right. Right. And it's like, he has not defeated Grindelwald yet, either when he is meeting Tom Riddle. Also true. So it's not like, yeah, there's not that. I mean, he's certainly at war with him. But I mean, I guess you could say maybe there's like a part of like Dumbledore recognizing his own like ineptitudes in Grindelwald.

1:32:01It's like, did I know that Grindelwald was like evil and it's like, well, I knew that I was being a bit evil or something. I don't know. Like is he recognizing like his own negativity in another person? You're right. I mean, that feels more like like Dumbledore. Right. It's almost like you were compelling me to do things that I knew weren't correct, but I wanted to do them anyway because you did. You're right. Yeah. That's a good explanation. Yeah. I agree with you though. It is interesting that he's able to like clock it. So interesting like as a 17 year old on another 17 year old, but I mean, I suppose then, yeah, I guess Tom's 11. It's like you want to give kids the benefit of the doubt, you know, you do. I mean, you don't want to walk in and be like, well, that kid is evil. Right. There's probably like the orphanage of it all going on as well. True. Sort of like you have not grown up in the best of circumstances. I'm not terribly surprised that you're not like the most well-adjusted right now. But like, you know, I also know you're coming to a good place. There's going to be good people. You'll have, you know, like whatever. So yeah, I could see where maybe like you could, you could just kind of glaze over that. But it also feels like, you know, he says that return to Hogwarts and tend to keep an eye

1:33:03upon him. Something I should have, I should have done in any case given that he was alone in friendless, but which already I felt I ought to do for others sake as much as his. Yeah. So quite a few red flags. Right. Yes. Yes. His powers as you heard were surprisingly more dependent for such a young wizard. Most interestingly and ominously of all, he aren't discovered that he had some measure of control over them. But like to that end, you'd think most witches and wizards who are born with like wizard or like into a wizarding household might realize that like, I don't know, like if, you know, I'm trying to imagine for myself, like if I'm a wizard and I have a kid, like long before he gets to Hogwarts, I might be like, oh wait, try this, try this. You know, like I see if you can see if you can roll this ball, you know, or whatever. Right. I mean, it's the same excitement we have over like teaching our kids to like, you know, take their first step. Exactly. Or, you know, Harry's riding the toy broomstick, you know? Right. Exactly. You want to like, like these things are not like whimsical like tricks to you.

1:34:07They're a way of life. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, but yeah, then as we kind of scoot forward a little bit, we're kind of getting like the little stories of the strangled rabbit, the young boy and the girl who grew up in the cave were much more suggestive. I can make him hurt if I want to. Yeah. Then Harry interjects and he was a possemouth. Yes, indeed, a rare ability and one supposedly connected with the dark arts. Although we know there are possemouths among the great and good two. This is like vague because it's like, are there? I mean, because he's talking about Harry. He's trying to like play Kate Harry here, but it's like Harry, even Harry, it's like he can talk to snakes, but he loses the ability. Right. It's like, it's not really that Harry can speak to snakes. It's that Harry is a horcrux. Right. So it's like, I feel like this would be a better sentiment if after Harry stopped being a horcrux, he could still talk to snakes. Right. Like it was just sort of like somehow some way he inherited this ability and that's just that. Right.

1:35:07You know, yeah, you're right. But otherwise, it's like, I don't know that we know of anybody other than direct descendants of Salazar Slytherin confirmed descendants who can do it. Yeah. I agree with you on that front. When he says, I can make them hurt if I want to. Like what do you suppose he is doing? Is this like some sort of like, like, just like, wordless, crucial, like, you know, diet version of it? I think so. Yeah. Okay. I mean, because like many spells are like for picking on others, it's like, you know, like locker curse or, you know, jelly legs, jinx or like whatever. It's like a lot of the things are very like funny. Like you could see why they exist because like high schoolers are high schoolers and they're going to put on each other and it's like, you know, it's a way to prank people, but they're not like they don't typically feel like things you would use like in battle. Right. And, you know, then also like if there's like markings, that comes with certain like tells, but the crucial artist curse doesn't leave marks.

1:36:08Right. Yeah. That's true. That's true. So I don't know. I mean, that would be that would be just my general take on it. Right. But the fact that he could do it like wandlessly as a 11 year old is crazy. It is crazy. Yeah. Because Harry, even in the wake of like serious being killed, cannot properly hit Bellatrix with it. I know. Well, it's not even wandlessly, but presumably wordlessly, you know, also that's not going to have to spell. He doesn't have to spell all he, all he can know is the intent. Yeah. He can just direct his intent. Yeah. Yeah. It's what it does seem like though. I feel like the scariest thing just makes too much sense. It makes too much sense. Yeah. It's raw power basically just like in coursing in his veins. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's exactly how he operates then. But then Dumbledore is like, all right. Now that was all that was like it was very interesting. But I want to make sure you're focusing on very specific things because it's going to have to do with horror cruxes later on. So first is that he doesn't like that he shares the name. Tom. He that doesn't like that. So he's invested in resilient YouTube and content for anything that tied him to other

1:37:10people. Anything that made him ordinary so he's basically always alone always, like, and I love where he brings up the decor. And he's like, you were there in his death is claiming they are in his confidence, they are no one close to him even understand him. They are diluted. Voldemort has never had a friend nor Righto. I believe that he ever wanted one. So that is like, it's like remember this Harry. Remember this, he is charming, all of them. right. And I feel like this especially rings true like with Bellatrix because like, you know, like at the beginning of the story, and spinners end when she's like, you know, arguing with Narcissa, she's like, I am most trusted, you know, like, or I'm as most trusted. Oh, sorry, Bellatrix, Larry. Yeah, our Southern Bail, Atrix. But yeah, so you're right. And you've got like Lucius marking his measure of self importance, you know, Draco in many ways, kind of like coming into the school year or less so as it unfolds. But plenty of people, yeah, think that they are adjoining themselves at the hip, you know, to be part of like his cabinet of of powered dark

1:38:15wizards. But it's like, make no mistake, he stands at the top completely and utterly on his own. Right. Yeah. He's just using everybody else. And then of course, he's going to draw his attention to the fact that the young Tomberd, I like to collect trophies. You saw the box of stolen articles he had in his room, souvenirs, if you will, a particularly unpleasant bits of magic bear in mind this particular magpie like tendency for this should be important later. And it's like, yeah, extremely important later. Yeah. So so obvious, you know, observation there is just simply that this is the blue print for core boxes, which I don't think anybody listening to this podcast is lost on them. No, of course, worth mentioning. Yeah. But obviously, it's fun to seeing how Dumbledore does his little theory building on his own. And it was like, okay, all right, this is what I have to go on. This is what I have to go on. Yes. Right. Okay. So this is why if it makes sense, he calls himself Baltimore, didn't like Tom. That makes sense. So we collect things, he collects things. Okay. And collects include their magic. Okay. All right. Yeah. Yeah. You know, there is another line that I also think is kind of interesting as we kind of go through some of this like backstory of

1:39:15Tom Riddle is like, there's the line that you and I kind of go back to a lot in definitely how those were Ron will say to Harry like, you really understand him, you know, and Harry's like pods of him pods of him. Yeah. I only wish I understood Dumbledore as much. Right. And it is fascinating because like they're in all of these lessons and Dumbledore is not even indulging himself at all with telling Harry who he is, right? Using all of the time. So specifically to either like discuss Harry and what Harry's going through to whatever ability he's willing to discuss it and Baltimore. Right. But like Harry is not learning hardly anything about Dumbledore. Right. Yeah. In the process. In the meantime, he basically just trusted Dumbledore implicitly, largely based on reputation. Right. Right. Yeah. I think what in Deadly Allows, Harry, but why didn't I use that time to like ask him old questions? Right. And it's like, well, probably because Dumbledore was going to have no business with that, not at that time. And he loves Harry. I'm sure he wants to share these things with Harry. I know. I know. Right. I mean, it's just like, you

1:40:19wonder so much like what how it might have gone if like Draco's plot doesn't like work out on this particular night because then they can come back from the drinker despair and like if there's no dark mark in the sky, Dumbledore can be like, okay, okay, okay. Here's we've successfully out of Horcrux. Like here's how we destroy it. Here's the sword. This is why the sword works. Right. And he can be like, what happened to you there? What were you reliving? What happened when you drink the potion? He could tell he could tell him a little about Ariana and stuff like that. Right. That's when that stuff could come up. And it's like maybe he did plan. Well, he I don't think he planned on the drinker despair doing what it did. But like there would have been opportunities that could have presented themselves had he not died exactly when he did. Right. Right. Yes indeed. But oh well, he does. In any case, so Harry goes to leave the office and Harry notices that the ring's gone. But you know, I thought you might have the mouth organ or something. And Dumbledore was like, oh, you see what's happening here? All right, all right. It's like very stutteried. Nope, nope. But the mouth organ was only ever a mouth organ.

1:41:22Yeah. Oh, yeah. So this is further fodder that where he has been is the will. Oh, because he would have did he put the stone in the stitch? Because he put the stone in the stitch. Oh, that's true. Because now he's removed it. That's a good point. Yeah. That's a good point. I like that. I like that. Very solid. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But with that, it does bring us to the end of unlucky number chapter 13. Looking forward to chapter 14 Felix Felicis. But before we close out today's episode, Jay, do you have a review for us? I do. This one comes from Jay Litke, who says, no, plattles. Hey, brother, love listening to your show every week. It is a highlight and some of the most fun. I've been listening to you since Maloy is aware of how soon that means mouth boy, but you know, it's all those years ago. Thank you for all the laughs. My question is, and I hope you haven't missed you answering this about the order of the Phoenix picking Harry up and taking him to number 12. Harry was in trouble with the ministry for using magic. And the traces would alert the ministry

1:42:23to any magic performed at number four. And given them an excuse to go after Harry, how was a tongs able to pack help Harry pack using magic without the ministry knowing? So it's a trace problem. It's a trace problem. The trace is just a gigantic mess. Yeah. There is rampant inconsistencies with rampant. And it shows up all the time. So yeah, good, good question. How would tongs be capable of getting away with any magic whatsoever? All you can assume is that because like I don't think is that Kingsley is the head of the order department. He's there too. And that he has pulled some strings at the ministry to make them just look the other way as they do this. Sure. Or maybe, maybe if you're an orr or something and you do magic near an underage person, it just doesn't like, they're like, oh, that was tongs though. So it doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah. I was also just trying to think about the fact that like there have been, you know,

1:43:26wizards watching over Harry at the beginning of this. Yeah. No. Am I getting things mixed? Yes. No, I'm sorry. Yes. Yes. Order the Phoenix says thank you. We know that like there's already been like the demand to our attack, which does fire off a trace related problem. Right. You know, because Harry uses the patronus. Right. But yeah, maybe the Kingsley of it all is a thing because what I was going to say is that like, we know that there have been like wizards like, you know, operating, disaparating over in front of the house. Right. You know, so like it's like, because Umbridge sends the dementors without anybody else knowing. Right. So it's possible that like the ministry does know Harry is being watched. Right. But they are order members watching him. So would they know? Right. I got a man. Maybe not. Maybe not. But I think, I think the best explanation has to be about Kingsley, like his ability to make whoever is watching these things,

1:44:29just like turn the other eye or maybe it's Kingsley's own respect. It's like my father, Hopkirk who sends the letters. So like, I don't know, maybe they like just like, you know, maybe my father is just like the poor recipient of all of Harry and the orders plans, where they're just like constantly knocking around or putting out a commission. So they can go do things. It is who Hermione like transforms into, um, but I don't know whether or not this is the case. But I always think of my father as more of like a like communicator, like sort of like like a administrative assistant kind of individual. I don't know if they give a neutral party. Yeah. Like, you know, she's she's sending the letter because the owl came to her office that said, Hey, this happened. We need you to send this correspondence. And it's like, yep, on it right now. Yeah. And also, it usually reads to me like an automated email. Like she might not even be there. You know, right. Yeah. So from from the desk of from the desk of right like, Oh, got a notification. This is where the form is filled out. And then it folds itself up. And then an owl picks it up. And that's that. That's that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Magic. Yeah. Um, so anyway,

1:45:30I think I think we're going to have to go with the Kingsley, uh, you know, baseline. Yeah. To begin for things because it is otherwise just such a hilarious problem. I know. Like, they put they do so much magic there. Like they do the disillusionment charm on Harry. Like, Tonks, yeah, cleans up his room. Right. Yeah. There's all sorts of nonsense happening. So yeah, the trade should absolutely go be going ballistic with the presence of these exact people. You know, I'm the other thing though with Tonks as an orr could be almost like, um, I'm thinking very like secret agent, you know, like it's kind of like you are like, maybe on behalf of the government sent to do illegal things that the government agrees will be overlooked simply because it's in the name of like government safety, right? Or whatever. Like that's it's a lot of a greater good. Yeah. A little bit of its own because it feels like there's that it feels like that's how like spies work. You know, like they can go pick a lock. They can break in somewhere. They can do things they're not supposed to be able to do because they are like sent on behalf of whoever. So it almost even feels like maybe if you're like an orr part of what your badge does

1:46:31is like keeps you immune from the trace. Right. Because we've kings. Let's see here. The people we see would be Tonks and Mati who are us orers. Yeah. You know, yes, doing magic, which does offer us like at least a little bit of like, continuity attached to what is otherwise the loophole. Yeah. Okay. We'll go about that. Yeah. Okay. That sounds good to me. Okay. Okay. All right. Well, guys, thank you so much for listening today. Um, that is going to bring us to the end of this episode. But just quick reminder, this should be the last episode that goes live before we are live on tour. Yes. Indeed. Yeah. We're going to be hitting the road. Um, we, we do, we do still have tickets available at some locations. We just added a bunch of tickets because the venue in our New York City location reached out to us. They were like, you guys have been sold out for a long time and our big room is open. Do you want it? And we were like, yeah, bring it up. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. That sounds great. Yeah. If you're in the like New York City area and I want to come see us live, like there is still time to get tickets. They are still some available. As is the case for some of our other shows as well. But I am so excited to be on the road doing these shows like in person

1:47:37with you guys. It is going to be an absolute blast. Yes. Indeed. And not to worry. We do have future tours on the horizon as well. So if we're not in your neck of the woods and you're wanting us to be in your neck of the woods, that could still be coming in the coming months. So anyway, guys, thank you so much for tuning in. You can get tickets to our access to all the ticket links at supercarlinbothers.com slash events. Yep. But otherwise, make sure you join us next week for chapter 14 Felix Polisis here on through the Griffin door. Today's episode was edited by Ethan Edgel, Vashon Brandon, does our art. Catherine Stein is our production manager and the show is hosted by me in Jonathan Karlin through the Griffin door is just weeks away and tickets have been added to our previously sold out New York event on September 13th. Tickets otherwise are still available in Boston, DC and Richmond, Hartford and Philly are sold out. Tickets links can be found at supercarlinbothers.com slash events. Come on out for a magical night of trivia, exclusive merch and a live recording of Griffin door. We hope to see you all so soon.

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