ITB Week 4 Pregame Show With Greg Cosell: Philadelphia Eagles Vs. Los Angeles Rams

0:00Hello, welcome to the inside the birds pre game show. I'm Jeff Mosher. I got Adam Kaplan with me. And of course, we have Greg Kosell, who's going to help give us a tape based preview of this week for game in South Philly at the link between the Eagles and the Rams. Now, this is just a one o'clock game, even though these teams are expected to be very good going into the year. And yet somehow the Rams are one and two coming off a loss to Denver, the Eagles two and one, but coming off a major 20 point blowout to the Bears on Monday and I football short turn around for them. And when you often have short turnarounds, what you see, Adam Kaplan is injured players who do not get ready in time to play and both teams are facing some major injuries. We'll start with the Eagles, Adam. No Dallas got hurt. He continues to be out with the knee, no land in Dickerson, but then it gets worse.

1:03No Devonte Smith and Zach Bond Smith with a hamstring issue and bond with a concussion. It just seems to get worse for this team injury wise. Yeah, it's just with Devonte Smith, let's not forget folks. This is the third month he's had a injury. It started in early August, all September. And now in October and it's not going to get better if he keeps playing on it. So he didn't practice this week. No surprise. And this with Hollywood Brown out, I mean, they're really down at receiver. It doesn't matter if fact, the only receiver, and if you want to call them one, that they have a practice squad as Xavier Gibson, who's a returner. So it's not good. They're in a tough spot right now. In fact, and we'll get in the matchups in McCuy Lemon. But a lot of more now is going to have to get more reps in you normally would play because they just don't have anybody else. Yeah, I mean, we've talked about Darius Cooper, who's no matter how good of a training camp he had, it wasn't going to be, it wasn't going to matter unless there are injuries. Well, now there's injuries. Yeah, as you mentioned now.

2:05So it looks like the top three are Don Tavian, Wix, McCuy Lemon, and either Elijah Moore or Cooper's definitely had of them. Yeah, there's no question. Greg, as we sent it over to you and you look at these matchups, how do you handle this as a coach? Like personnel and we'll get it got it out again. What kind of personnel groupings? What could they do with this group here to be able to move? Well, it becomes schematic. Obviously, you don't have receivers that you feel comfortable just lining up and saying, we're going to win one on one. Now obviously, Jalen Watson is also out for the Rams. I'm sure you're going to get to the Rams injuries. There's others as well. But Jalen Watson is out for the Rams. So, but they don't have the receivers now that you just line up and play. So now it becomes schematic. It becomes use of formations. It becomes use of motions. You have to create opportunities based on tactics and schematics as opposed to let's just line up and play. They don't have that guy right now. So that's ultimately what you have to do.

3:05And then look, we can sit here and say, Sean Manion, obviously, last week, struggled a bit against Dennis Allen, but he's been around the league. I'm sure he's a smart young guy. Nick Suryani is still there. He's been around the league. Now you have to figure that kind of stuff out from a schematic standpoint. Right. Right. Let's also, let's be even more real about the situation. There comes a time in any ball game where no matter how well you scheme it up, the defense gets paid to. And sometimes you just need great players to make great plays. And we have seen a couple of times this year, Jalen Hertz really just say this ball is going to Devante, whether it's no question. They don't, and we've liked what we've seen from Don Tavion Wicks for sure. And other guys will get opportunities. But I don't know that they have somebody that can go just get the ball down the sideline, which is the best ball Jalen likes to throw. So this is not just scheming different. This is now a comfort zone issue for your quarterback for the pass he loves to play them.

4:07That's a great point, Jeff. If I could just add to that, someone a lot smarter in the past game than I, Kurt Warner, has talked about that a lot. That when you have, let's say, a true boundary, which obviously they do not have, it's good as Devante Smith is. He's not a true boundary ex. Right. It's just a total security blanket. I mean, look at a team like Cincinnati with Joe Burrow. When he sees one-on-one based on the coverage, either Higgins or Chase, he's going to throw him the ball. Yeah. AJ Brown and people can, you know, be unhappy about all that in any way they want. But AJ Brown was that guy. And how many times did we see that over the last, what, three, four years where, hey, critical situations, you go to one-on-one with AJ Brown. And you know, you feel the thing is it's a quarterback comfort level. You know, he knows, hey, I got my guy. I can throw him the ball. And I feel pretty good that he's going to win. So now they don't really have that. So your point is 100% correct. So Jeff, on your question, what can they do? Greg was talking about certain things from, from Nationally.

5:09This is our stack releases, bunches. Yeah. You're trying to give them anything you can to free these up. Our old friend John D. Flipov did this in 2015 when he had Andrew Hawkins as his ex-receiver, John told me. He did all sorts of stuff. He said, I got to be creative because he's, they're not going to win on their own. For sure. If I send it back to you, Jeff, Greg brought it. You're going to have to find out, you're going to have to find some things that you know they can do. But you're also going to have to help them. And you've got to do all you can to free them up. It's going to be hard. But this is a major challenge, major. Yeah. There's one more injury on offense that I want to, we talked about it last week and I don't want to gloss this over because the Eagles got away with it. Good for them. Maybe they have a plan. But Fred Johnson will be out again. He is their backup left tackle. All right. We know Mark Hillbell is a right tackle by trade. He did cross train a little bit of a left tackle during the spring. I mean, and training camp. But they did not elevate an offensive tackle, which we thought that they would do last week.

6:12I'm guessing they're not going to do it again because they didn't do it last week. Why would they do it again? I think they're playing with fire a little bit. If Jordan Milada gets hurt, Stubbs is told, has to come out. Who knows? Goes to the medical tent like Jaylin, hurts how to do just for a series. I just don't understand what they do at left tackle that they're comfortable enough with against a good defense like the Rams. So that's just always something to watch. I would back his bell with a college left tackle. I'm sure that in practice these last two weeks that he took a ton of reps at left. No, John O'Jeeh who is the guy you're talking about who was a big surprise who started a couple games at right tackle for the Titans a couple years ago. He had the pectoral injury, but he's fine. He was clear. He's on the practice squad. But you're right. They don't have a choice. So it's. They don't have much of a choice here. It's a tough deal like you're right. I mean, the Fred Johnson one. I didn't get hurt in practice. I think they added them. Yes, one of those pop up injuries that happened in practice, right? Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. All right.

7:12Let's flip it to the defense for the Eagles big loss. Obviously, Zach Bond concussion. He's going to be out. So obviously Jeremiah Truett, Trotter Jr. We'll get in there. We have talked a lot about Trotter Jr. How much how impressive he's been when he's had to play. I will say if there was one game where I wouldn't want to have to see him sort of get in there and play against the start. It's against the kind of the offense that the Rams have with all their multiple fronts and tight ends who can catch the ball and receivers that go over the middle. Because we know Trotter is more of an instinct player than a great athlete. And so I'm sure this is music to Sean McVase ears. However, this is the situation that they're delk Gregg. And you have now, Jihad Campbell, who, as you mentioned, on our show inside the tape and with our pitcher and group, he's still learning. He and the diagnosing is still coming to him. And now you have to put a guy next to him who is not an all pro linebacker. Just complicates it more for the Eagles. And I think where it really plays out is probably in past coverage. Because Bond's one of the best past coverage linebackers in the league. And I know through conversations that I've had

8:13that they can do a lot of things in their zone concepts because of Zach Bond. So you'd have to assume they won't be able to do exactly the same things. And I like Jeremiah Truett Jr. a lot. And I really liked him coming out of college at Clemson. But I don't know if he could, well, we know he can't do exactly the same things as Zach Bond. So what we don't know is how that impacts how the financial game plans and calls the game. That's what we don't know. Right. I guess it's possible we could see more dime coverage. We're one linebacker and maybe more defensive backs, whether it's Marcus Epps on the field, although he's a little... Marcus Epps, I believe, he doesn't round out. He's out. I meant Michael Carter, Jr. But again, it complicates it if you wanted to play dime because you don't have Marcus Epps. Yeah, I mean, I assume Michael Carter gets the start at safety now. You're good, but does he not? Yes, he is. Hopefully so. I mean, who else would there be in the secondary if they wanted to play dime? It's a great question. I know everybody's going to say, well, what about Kenny Moore? But I mean, you heard Vic Fangio say, Kenny Moore is weeks away from being weeks away

9:16from understanding how to play defense. Now, could he get on the field and play some nickel in interior slot? Maybe he can play some dime. I'm sure there are coverage that he's played a long time that if you're going to say, hey, we're going to play a basic quarters coverage or a basic cover three, Kenny Moore certainly knows how to do that. He does not probably know all the subtleties and nuances of a Vic Fangio defense. But this is what you deal with when you're a coach and you lose people. It changes your playbook. Absolutely. So this will have to be a big challenge for the Eagles defensive backfield against this Rams. Offense already a little bit, obviously a little bit underman. I suppose Adam, maybe Macric Williams can get himself on the field. It's really difficult. Yeah, John Jones would be the guy who's, who's, who's, that's a good point. That's a good point. He has played both inside and outside in his career. He has. By the way, he did get added to the Interport Friday but he got cleared. Right. He's now 33 years old. No, it is what it is.

10:16Yeah, that's all part of the complication. Not great for the Eagles. Not the type of offense you want to be facing when you're that beat up at the secondary and line backer level. Let's talk about the Rams though, because they have injuries as well. Yeah. Yeah. Now, the good news for them, at least, is that Puka, Nakuwa will, is expected to play. That is, you know, he has, I think he's had a hip injury for the first two weeks. He hasn't played. So this will be his first game. It'll be interesting to see how, if he's 100%, if he's 85%, but he will be able to play. Or how much he plays. Or how much he plays, right? So he comes back, but out for them is their tight end. Terrence Ferguson. He's been dealing with an injury, although they do have about six million other tight ends. That's a big one though, because from a matchup stamp, what he's the one true athlete, they have the group. Right. And that does change a little bit of what you can do. Yes, they've David Salon, our guy, Tyler Higby, who's just continues to get it done, but Ferguson's a matchup guy. Mark and Cinnon, they have Max Claire, who they drafted in the second round.

11:17So I bet they still have four tight ends up. For sure. How has Max Claire, I feel like Max Claire would be a good, maybe I'll let you describe it Greg. I mean, he caught passes at Purdue, and then a little bit at Ohio State. But is he a guy that can be a two-way tight end? Why for them? I think he can. I like Max Claire coming out. He just does not an explosive. I mean, Ferguson, Adam's right. Ferguson is their most explosive mover at the tight end position. He's almost another one of those guys. He's not quite in the coast and loveling category, but he's more like that than a true attached tight end. And that's the way they deploy him a good part of the time. So he's there. He's sort of their intermediate vertical to mention at the tight end position. They don't really have another guy exactly like that. But they will dress for tight ends, and they're still going to play at a 13-person out. Claire, Dress last week, but the only plan on special seems only for now. So now he's going to get some stamps at the end on opponents. But from a matchup standpoint, this does impact him

12:18not having Ferguson. Absolutely. It sure does. And then on defense, they're without some serious firepower. They've already been without Miles Garrett, who's on injured reserve. They will not have Aaron Donald, who had made his come back two weeks ago. He is out with a back injury. So he won't play in this game. And Jalen Watson. Yeah, thank you. Jalen Watson, the cornerback they signed over from the Chiefs who's a Super Bowl champion also out. What does that do to their defensive backfield, Greg? Well, Watson's a start in corner, obviously. So I mean, they'll have Forbes. Yeah, I mean, I would assume it's next man up. I mean, they're a big dime team. So that's we'll get into that. They placed them last week. But they're the Emmanuel Forbes. Because they don't really have another outside corner that is on the roster right now. No, it's as wash-wall as can play outside. But he plays more nickel or inside? Yeah, he plays more. Well, it's interesting because do we know it?

13:21Is Cameron Kitchens? Yeah, he's expected to play. Yeah, he's. Well, that makes Quentin Lake the nickel. OK. So what'll happen is Forbes will play on the outside. Got it. All right. So that is a, it's not ideal for the Rams either. They would love to have those guys, especially there. They would love to have their Garrett Donald tandem. That's what this defense was going to be feast on. But they will have to make do without him. Now, if this were a year's past, we would talk about Emmanuel Forbes starting and say what an advantage because AJ Brown would own him. They don't have AJ Brown anymore. So we'll have to see what that matchup is like. And that brings us to the first part of the show where we get into the matchups. Eagles offense against Rams defense. All right. I've been thinking about this guys for a little bit. You know, in some ways, Portugal and Manion entering his fourth game ever is basically have to coach with his hand tied behind his back, but no Devante Smith, no Dallas Goddard. He's already got Drew Kendall at center, a backup, and then Jürgen's playing out of position at left guard.

14:23But you know, he got the job for a reason. He impressed himself upon this coaching staff, upon ownership. They liked him. They thought he was bright. Greg, you were kind of looting this to this before. It's your job to come up with some kind of schematic way of working around your deficiencies and catering to your strength. So where does that begin for the Eagles? Well, I mean, it's some of what we talked about. You know, obviously the run game becomes a big factor here, because you need a way to control the pace and tempo of this game. And you're not necessarily going to do that by throwing the ball all over the yard. So the question is, you know, how do they see their run game? I mean, up to this point in the season, outside zone has clearly been their defining and their foundational run. So, in a second or third in the league, in terms of the number, the percentage of outside zone runs through three weeks. So that's been their foundation. And that's something that they're going to have to lean on and be able to do in this game.

15:25You know, the thing is, even without Aaron Donald, and we know Miles Garrett is out, he's been out for a couple of weeks. But this is still a difficult Pest Rush team because they are one of the highest percentages stunt defensive lines in the league. And when you have a center who's making what is third start, is it or second start, third start? And Jurgans, you know, playing a new position, they're going to test that for sure with their stunting. And, you know, they're very, very good at it. And they still have some juice up front. You know, Fisk is good. Young is a good Russia. I mean, it's not as if they don't have to Kobe Turner is a low to handle. So it's not as if they don't have any players at all. And, you know, this is a team that often plays in their dime, a five, six dime. In other words, five defensive lineman and six defensive backs. And Jalen McCullough is a very good player for them. Plays a lot of snaps as their dime safety. So, you know, it's still not an easy defense to play against.

16:27So, again, the run game to me becomes absolutely critical in this game. And if you're being honest, they did a really nice job last week through the first half and the first two runs of the third quarter. And then they stopped running. I guess the game kind of got away from them. Because I think, as Adam, you mentioned, they only had two more carries after that for Barclay. But, you know, you have to find a way to stay on the field, have the run game be sustaining. Maybe Barclay can break one. And then, and every coach says this, but it's probably more true this week to be in manageable third down situations, where you can scheme up, you know, completions. You know, when it's third and fourth, third and five, you can scheme up completions more so than when it's third and nine or third and 10. One more thing I'll add, another injury that came up Friday for the Rams. Josiah Stewart, who I guess is one of the starting entrustures. Oh, yeah. He wouldn't, he didn't practice. So, he's got a great injury.

17:27He was added to the injury report. So, it'll be a game. That's big. Yeah, wanted to make sure I met. If he can't go. And I guess he hasn't been ruled out though. As we're speaking, he's questionable. But if he can't go, that's big, because he's actually a very good player. And he is a major part of that five, six defense that they play. And the Eagles of Michigan. Go ahead. The Eagles have in the past always been able to run the ball well against the Rams because the Rams have always been lighter up front. And now they continue to be light. There's no Aaron Donald. There's no Miles Garrett. There's no as Greg just meant. Well, there might not be a Josiah St. It will see, but he might be playing hurt. It's small. Yeah. Enter the pipe. Well, they've got some inside, even though they're not big. Poon of Fords always been a very good run defender. Tyler Davis from Clemson is a very good run defender as well. Yeah. Those guys are not past rushers, but they're run defenders. Right. But if you're going to run the ball of the edges, like the Eagles have done well against the Rams. And yeah, then it'll be interesting to see how

18:30Chris Schu will, you know, handles that if Stewart can't go. Adam, I would say it's very important in a game like this that a guy like Tank Bigsby makes the most of the opportunities and doesn't put the ball on the ground. Because he basically got put in the doghouse after he fumbled deep in their own territory against the bears. But he can't afford to know. I feel like if the Eagles are really going to do this thing, it's not about 40 carries for sake one. It's about really hitting them with a variety of running backs and keeping control of the chains. It would help, but also to add to what you just said with Tank Bigsby. Rain is expected on Sunday. I know. I'm sorry to bring it up. So he played Jacksonville. He should be used to that. What's that? He should be used. He played in Jacksonville. It's always rain. Oh, yeah. That's true. It gets humid there. But yeah, Bigsby's a guy that had a great training camp. Andrew and I were there. You were there. He looks great. He fits the scheme very well. We were pretty impressive way looked. Has it been the factor yet that we thought he would be?

19:31You and I talked about this. They don't. They don't need to overwork Barclay. That's the thing. Go ahead, Greg. Do you need, do you guys know Adam? Do they? Have there been any elevations for the Rams? No, that's unsaturday until no, neither team will make it. They basically don't make them this early. Yeah. Yeah. Greg, we spent a lot of time in the last two weeks talking about Blitz pick up some sake one Barclay struggles with it. How would you evaluate Will Shipley in that department? And because I imagine he'll be important. And well, let me ask you this. How would you evaluate that? Plus the Rams approach. Do you expect them to come after Jalen Hertz? Do you expect them to show like they are and drop? Like we saw with the Bears? Did occasionally, what are you thinking from Khrushula? Well, it's almost too early to say what a team exactly is. But they've not been a high percentage Blitz team through three games by NFL standards. Now, again, could that change?

20:31Of course it could. I mean, because they could feel that with Kendall at center and Jurgons at left guard. And depending on who's in the back field, if it is Barclay, they may want to challenge that. Cam Kirl has always been a pretty good blitzer going back to his commander days. So we'll see. That's something they could do. We don't know the answer to that. Because look, the Rams need a win. Just like I'm sure Eagles fans believe the Eagles need a win. But the Rams need a win. So sometimes coaches, I don't want to say they step out of who they are. But they might hit a certain part of the playbook a little more, feeling like, hey, we need to step out of a tendency, so to speak, when sure something a little different. So that's something you don't know the answer to. And they may also feel, even without Watson, Forbes has played a lot of football. Has he been the player that was expected when he was, I believe, the 16th pick in a draft in the first round? No. But it's not as if he can't play. He's improved since that first year when he clearly got torched a couple of times.

21:34You could line up and play with him in corner. It's not like he can't play. And they may feel with who the Eagles put out a receiver that they're OK on the back end. I would have to think this would be another heavy 11 personal game for the Eagles. Even without Devante Smith, you still don't have any depth of tight ends. And if you want to run the ball, you're probably going to run the ball out of 11 with Mont as your inline blocker. And you could. Yeah. Now it's up to your slot receiver to be a decent blocker, whether that's lemon or wicks or whoever they're going to put out there. This is Adam, again, why you're right to say, don't forget about Darius Cooper. He's ahead of Elijah Moore. And he is someone that they have used in the slot as a big, dirty work type of receiver. And he's good. He's strong. Greg, you've mentioned that he almost has the same frame as AJ Brown. He's a strong guy. Yeah. I mean, again, you never never know when a guy then gets more snaps. That's what you don't know. I've always equated it to baseball, where when a team signs a free agent who vets seventh through a team and hits 30 home runs, and then they think, well, we're going to make

22:35our number three hitter because his numbers at batting seventh are really good. You never know how that works. So I like Cooper. But if he ends up playing 60 snaps or 50 snaps, whatever the number is beyond what he's far beyond what he's played up to this point is the production the same. You just don't know that. Yeah, it's kind of like permanent average in the NBA when you these guys, oh, the he averages per six minutes. Right, right. And then when he becomes a starter, he's not the same player because he's not playing the same minute. Yeah. So you don't know. Cooper does have inside outside capability. And he's strong. And what I did notice in training camp wasn't just Wix. Hertz trusted Cooper. They were starting to develop some chemistry. But this is a big deal here. There's nowhere else to turn. They don't have any like their death of being severely tested. That's we started the season saying, wow, they're deaf. It's not the best talent. They have depth. Well, now now it's severely being tested. Yeah, because don't forget Hollywood Brown is out too. Yep, right. Yeah, right.

23:35Last thing I want to mention on offense, I know it's not a big part of the Shanahan McVeah style of offense that Sean Mann has brought here. But this has to be a career low for Jill and Hertz and rushing yards after, you know, first three or four weeks. He is now just not a part of the rushing offense the way he was earlier. And anything is of scramble. And he doesn't even, I think Greg pointed this out too. The way teams are stunting up the middle, they're clogging it. They're not even giving him those lanes to run. Would it benefit this offense if they did try to get him involved in more design runs? Is that an element that they need now that they're so under manned and in personnel? They might. I mean, you go. Every game is different every Sunday. We all know that. So this might be a game where in order to sustain offense, they need to add in some zone read concepts, some design runs. You know, it's not a matter of him running for 30 yards. It's a matter of staying on the field and trying to control the pace and tempo of the game.

24:35I mean, that's ultimately what you're trying to do. So, I mean, again, you know, it would not surprise me in this game if they added that to the equation. Now, again, that doesn't mean you're coming out within first and 10. And I don't know about. I mean, you're going to have situations where the design run game can be a factor. I would say as a change up, right? Because they were not understanding very much less with you could be under center a little bit more. It's Greg talked about design runs, which they're still not quite there like we were hoping they would be because we haven't really seen it as much as we thought we would. There are, you got when you're down in a past target group, tight end of receiver, you got to find inventive ways, man, to create offerings. So, Greg let off with that, I thought he's right, and just talking to coaches over the years when you're challenged. It's not only showing the defense something different, you got to come up with something different because you don't have the other guys. Yeah. And they know their personnel like, what does Darius Cooper do really well? We haven't really talked about that very much. Right.

25:35What does Elijah Moore do very well? He's going to have to play. They have nowhere else to go here. What does Wix do? Like Wix has been there, they'll take a couple of shop plays with him. Okay, we know he could line up inside. And then it's tight end. I don't know what they have. Right. You have to create things. You have to do misdirection. You have to do, not gimmicks. gimmicks, you know, yeah, could there be a gimmick play? Sure. But you like the Niners did on the first series, you know, last Sunday when they did that, you know, lateral. You know, and again, that got the multiple good start, obviously, but that's not something you do seven times in a game. But you can't have misdirection elements in your offerings. You can't have those kinds of things. And Adam mentioned it stacks bunches, things that create, you're trying to create completions. That's what you're trying to do. Right. I do wonder, you know, if our discourse after this game and going forward will continue to be about, is everybody being put in the best position to succeed? That is the number one job of a coach is to put your players in position to succeed, maximize their strength,

26:37minimize their weaknesses. They've thrown about six screens. I think all six have been blown up this year. Four of them have been just because of bad blocks in front of them, whether it's Goddard, Erts had one, Son, Devon, they Smith had one. They're not a good screen team. They continue to try to pop one or two, and it's been hurting them. That was the second play they ran from scrimmage against the Bears in the third quarter, right? After a nice, Sequon, Barclay, seven-year-old run, and it immediately put them behind the sticks. So if there's anything I think that you really have to do when you're facing this Rams team and this Rams, and you're trying to control the ball, keep the ball away from their offense, is move the chains and do it in the best way that's catered to your personnel. You know, maybe going back to more inside running. You can run zone inside. Eagles do it all the time, but they've been trying to run to the outside. You don't have great blockers on the outside, a tight end or wider receiver. So I'll be very interested to see if there's been some organizational exhibition this week, and to try to balance it. It's been an interesting three weeks, because they're trying to establish,

27:39as all good offenses do, have some kind of defined identity. The first two weeks, it was tough, because they couldn't run the ball at all. And when one half of your offense, you run game past game being the two halves, let's say, and one half doesn't really function effectively, it's difficult to develop some kind of rhythm and continuity and identity to your offense. Now, they were able to win both those games. Jaylen Hertz played very well in both those games. This past week, they actually came out and ran the ball well, but the past game, for reasons we discussed when we evaluated the game earlier in the week, the past game did not do really anything in the game. So that half of the offense did not function well. So therefore, they played three games in which it does not seem as if there's a true identity yet to their offense. Would you, is that a fair statement, guys? Absolutely fair. Absolutely fair. So they're striving for that, because every offense strives for that. And at this point, we're just being honest based on what the tape shows,

28:40we don't know exactly how that's going to play out. Now, they're obviously going to strive for it. I mean, that's what all teams do, but it hasn't quite happened yet the way they would like it to. Off that, what Greg just said, I would take this to another level. If they had got it in Smith, you kind of know, because you saw in week one, they could turn to the passing game, they would have these good past targets. Without them, it's kind of like, okay, if Barclay doesn't get the job done, what can they do? It's like, who could kind of stand out? No, Wix may want to be in the top pass target this game. It can't handle maybe 10 to 12 pass targets, if it calls on it. That's what you don't know. He hasn't been that guy. Greg is outlining our shows. What he looked like at UVA, there was before this final season, but there's some talent there, and he's looked good so far. But you're going to ask, so it's going to have to be a big past or two guys. You got to win outside the margins a little bit this week. Yeah, absolutely. Fascinating. I look at this game,

29:40and obviously there's many variables. So I don't want to make it seem like this is the only variable, but I think first down is a fascinating balance in this game. Because you come out, let's say you do feel that you have to run the ball, which I think they have to, but does that mean you come out on most first downs and run it? Or because first down is normally the best down to throw as well, do you, what's the balance there? I don't have an answer for that, so I'm not going to pretend I'm swerved enough to have an answer for that, but that's something they've got to kind of figure out. Because if you're not running well, and we don't know until they try it, the last thing you won is to get caught up in second and nine all the time. Because then that just changes the whole feel of a possession. Football is finally back, and price picks is bringing out their best offer yet. New users who sign up will get $150 in lineups if you win your first $5 lineup. That's right. If you win your first $5 lineup, you get $150 in lineups.

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32:44at the fairest prices. So whether you're stocking up for the tailgate, the watch party, or celebrating a big win, you know you're getting the good stuff without overpaying. They even show love to the community with specials for fans, students, service members, and healthcare pros. Camden Apothecary, top quality cannabis, great prices, and an experience made for Philly fans 21 and up. All right, let's flip it. Let's talk now about this Ram's offense against his Eagles defense. Obviously, no Zach Bond. That's going to impact him on a lot of levels, right, Craig? Because Gordon wears the green dot. He is the communicator. And when you're hearing Vic Fangio talk about Jihad Campbell as a work in progress, still learning, you mentioned the key in diagnosing. That still comes along. I mean, there's no read blank chip anymore who also used to be a traffic cop for the best into the defense. It does make me wonder from a communication standpoint, which was an issue already last week against the Bears, right?

33:45Who is the guy? Who is the glue guy from the linebacker to the corner to the safety level that can get this whole defense aligned correctly? That's a hard question for us to answer. Yeah, they'll have an answer. I think Sean McVeigh wants to find that out. That question himself. On the other thing too is we always talk about the Ram's and think passing game, but the Ram's run the ball well. And they almost have two different run games with two different backs because Kyron Williams is a shoulder squared run downhill. So one run they feature. And again, this is where Jeremiah Trotter Jr. comes in is one run that is featured with Kyron Williams's duo. And you get those two double teams and then you work up to the linebackers. Now, Bonn was phenomenal at recognizing the timing of when to then shoot that gap if Carter or Davis or Joe Moe were double teamed. He was a master at that. And that's just a feel. Now, I like Trotter, but he hasn't played really a full game in a meaningful game.

34:46So I can't answer that question, but he's going to have to deal with that because they're going to run duo. And then they've got Choram, who is a little more of an outside runner. They'll get him on the perimeter because he's got a little more juiced than Williams. So they have, I don't want to say two distinct run games, but they do they do use both backs a little bit differently in their run game. Our mission is 24, 7 access to fresh food for all. This is Hota Kotby from Joy 101 with Hota Kotby. And that was Jaleia Hemings. She and her husband created nourish and bloom market. When we decided to open this 24, 7 AI grocery store, people thought we were crazy, but our first store was completely community funded. And when your family and your friends bet on you, it hits a little differently. And the city of Atlanta took notice and decided to be part of the change, but the city actually put dollars behind that change. And so that the big box stores won't come will build our own. One community funded store became several, but eradicating food deserts across the country takes more than a village.

35:48We won the AT&T small business contest ramp. And that was what we needed to open the first AI power shipping container grocery store in the country. Having a powerhouse like AT&T stand behind you, takes it to a whole new level, connecting changes everything AT&T. And I would add this, Jeff, I know it didn't. It wasn't great last week, but bond is actually talked from the people I spoke with, one of the better coverage linebackers. Oh, yeah, that's what we said. Yeah, not having his length. Yeah, and truck juniors like three or four inches shorter. Maybe three inches. That matters. I mean, it's a big deal. Yeah, experience. Yeah, this, this, you're missing a lot here. Well, I mean, and you're facing an offense, as Greg mentioned, that they're one of the few teams that doesn't mind killing you by a thousand slight. You know, they don't have to throw it over the top over you. They will march down the field, like Greg said, running duo with Kyron Williams running the outside. And they throw the flats really well, and they use play action well. And when you looked at the Eagles Monday night, not only did they have communication issues,

36:48but it seemed like Ben Johnson did a good job of finding those voids in the flats that are open again zone. And then having the guys who catch the ball be able to turn up field, I think that that's where I would have my biggest concern right now, especially now, with a less athletic guy like Trotter in there, is will they be worn out in the flats and over, you know, on the play action, especially, and just little death by cuts that move the ball up and down the field for the Rams. Well, and here's a question which you haven't addressed. And we don't know the answer to when they line up in 13 personnel, will the Eagles be in base with the Jean at safety, or will the Eagles go nickel? That's a great question. You know, Vic wants to be a nickel, because he's even countered that with nickel. But if he does that, then you got Michael Carter at safety who's still learning the position. I know you're leaving yourself vulnerable one way or another. So I don't know the answer, I'm just, but I think, you know, they obviously have been working on it all week, you know, they have their plan right now, you know,

37:51so we don't know what that is, but it'll be interesting, because even without Terence Ferguson, the Rams still will dress for tight ends. They're still gonna play 13 personnel. Now, the question, which we don't know either, depending on Pukinacua's health, is how much Pukinacua plays, because when they play 13 personnel, my guess is he will not be the wide receiver. It'll be Devonte Adams, who's off by the way to a terrific start. Right. So, you know, what are the Rams going to do? What's going to be their balance between 13 personnel, 12 personnel, and 11 personnel? And Jeff, one more thing I want to add, so you brought up sort of like the Eagles backs of coverage and what could the Rams do? Carbon Williams had a great game catch in the football last week, six for 70. Corm is also on the field, a call to a couple passes, so they're backs and catch the football. There's a lot they can do here, and we even got the Stafford yet, so. And another thing, another player that is coming on a bit

38:52as a receiver and he is mumphored, you know, a mumphial, to choose me, you know, remember him, hit big physical receiver, not a burner per se, but, you know, he's, there are a lot of people that like him coming out of pit, they knew what he was, you know, he wasn't going to be like a number one, but he's one of those guys that, you know, could end up being in the league for 10 years and he's just a solid receiver. I think in the past, we used to be able to look at this match up and say, from a defensive standpoint, you could always rely on the Eagles to come away with a few turnovers, especially when they play the Rams. They've been able to make Matthew Stafford uncomfortable with their pass rush. They have. Last year we mentioned, I don't think Stafford got sacked, but he threw a bunch of passes that were not Stafford like because you could just tell he was rushing his clutch. He was afraid of the pass rush. And then of course they get the field goal blocked. But it still took the block field goal to win the game. It's not like they held the Rams to 13 points. Right, and that's where I come, the turnovers become so crucial in close tight games

39:55because they flipped the field. The Eagles are minus five in turnover differential. They have, I don't think they have a turn, take away. This year. Yeah, which is, some of that to me is an anomaly because they come in bunches. It's surprising to me, but if they can't get a turnover in this game, and if they can't limit Rams' possessions, then I think they're in for a really long afternoon. And by the way, I think it's where Gernard comes into play too. Because he played 18 snaps last week, I would assume that number's gonna go up. Is that fair Adam from where you're going to be? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You should know that he practiced more of this than he did last week. So I mean, he's probably gonna play 40 snaps, give or take. And he's obviously, he looked good in his 18 snaps last week. He had some strong pass rushes, and he's truly a pass rusher. And they don't really have another one. So he's going to play. So we'll see how that impact Stafford when it comes to passing situations. Did you know the Rams are an under center play action pass team?

40:55And it really fits well with the run. And they marry the two of those things together, as well as any team in the league. Detroit does that as well. Chicago does that as well. The Rams are very good at that. The Seahawks are very good at that. These teams that are under center play action pass teams are very good at marrying run looks and the passing game. Did you notice which side Gernard was lined up on? Any chance? Most of the right, I believe. Yeah, go just over left tackle. Over left tackle. Over left tackle. Yeah, I'm asking you here on the right. Because our all Fred Warren McLean is the right tackle. And he goes ahead and some fun with him over the years. He's gotten better since being a better guy. He's gotten better. He's gotten better. Yeah. Greg, is the reason why the Rams do so much under. I mean, just foundationally, I know that's what Sean McVeigh likes to do. But I mean, we always talk about their offensive line not being individually very good or elite and having great pass protection guys. But I mean, are they alleviated by the style of offense that the Rams run?

41:56Yes, playing under center does a lot of things for you. Number one, it helps pass protection. And number two, it impacts. When you can marry your run game with your play action game, it puts second level defenders in conflict. Much more so than if you're in shotgun play action. Where they can see almost instantaneously, whether it's runner pass. So, and it also then gives you much more of a misdirection element to your pass game. Because if you run an outside zone element in your run game and then have outside zone run action, it also gives you the boot element opposite. So, it just gives you so many more elements with an under center of play action pass game than a shotgun play action pass game. Right. And see, this is a good, for Eagles fans, especially, are trying to understand this transition. For two straight weeks, you're going to see these are trying to do, by the way. Right. For two straight weeks, you're going to see the opponent not only run and offense, but sort of foundationally build their philosophy and their scouting

42:56and their player procurement approach around that. If you, all three of those tight ends that the bears put on the field on Monday night can block and catch. Maybe not all of the same level, but good enough. All three or four of the Rams tight ends can also block and catch at the same level. The Eagles right now, not only do they not have a lot of tight ends who are healthy, but they have some, too many, I guess, one-dimensional players who don't give you, because as you're mentioning, Greg, the whole point is to be able to run either a run or a pass out of the same identical formation that you did the other one from so that the defense is confused. Oh, I can tell. Certainly have the action of the old line and the back field action be the same. The wide receiver. The wide receiver splits can be different, obviously. Right. But those guys are in line. And they look like it might be a run, but then they can release and run some kind of receiver routes, whereas I don't know that anybody looks at Johnny Munt and says, God, go run a receiver. Well, that's why those passing teams can work the middle of the field so effectively,

43:59because they end up creating more distance between the second level of the defense and the third level of the defense because of the run action. So teams like the Lions, the Rams, the Seahawks, the Bears with a lot of those between the numbers throws can work the middle of the field more effectively, because that's what you're looking to do, to create more space between the second and the third level. I would love for this show to not be 13 more weeks after this. We'll see the Eagles really don't have the personnel to do what they're trying to do, but they're trying to do it because this is what they bought into the game. Yeah, but they do have the personnel, because they do have Barclay. And I'm sure teams still think that Barclay's the number one guy you've got to stop. There's no question defenses are going into a game against the Eagles thinking that, no question. No matter what he's done in the past, there's no way they want Barclay to control the game. Either with 7, 8, 9, 14 yard runs or to break a 60 yard touchdown. As the Rams go. Right, he needs what the Bears and the Bears, the he needs the blocking scheme to work.

45:00Well, you're right. They have the big course. Of course, but that is a related but separate question. The Eagles are still going to run outside zone. They were very successful running it last week. They're going to run it. So you don't need, if you can do that effectively, Jeff. And it's an if we all understand that right now. Then on a certain level, not 100%, but on a certain level, then you don't need big time number one receivers, because you're creating space. And then if you're creating space, Dante Wicks, who's a big body, can work between the numbers. A Cooper who's a big body can work between the numbers. You're creating space for them. It's not a matter of winning one on one. Jeff, remember what again, we brought this up a lot, but what the Niners did to the Eagles in the playoff game with DeMarcus Robinson, Joanne Jennings, running game with whoever was back there

46:01that helped them but by schematics and space that they create with that scheme, it gets them open. So it'd be great if Barclay did well. Obviously, that's it needs to start with the run any game, even if they had a lot their Pest Heart group there. But these guys, like Sean Manning is, he's got to do a good job here. Like this is a, I hate to say this, but I'm gonna say it anyway, this is Sean Manning week. I've been thinking it all week Adam. I agree with you. You know what? Well, and the other thing too is, and I'm not disagreeing Adam, but they have other players on the staff. I'm Syrionny's an offensive guy. I don't know the whole offensive staff off the top of my head, but it's not like they're gonna put Sean Manning in a room with a straight check and then say, you better come out with a plan or else, you know. No, I mean, he's the offensive coordinator obviously. So, you know, what's the game starts, you know, you don't have time for lengthy discussions and he's gonna have to call the plays. But as you work through this week, he's not the only guy being tasked with coming up with a plan. That's true.

47:02Ryan Mahapi, his friend, and that's why he's there. He was the Titans coach of run game quarter. They were both a Green Bay. Jamal Singleton. Yeah. There's a lot of parts to this during the week. Yeah, sure. I've been fortunate enough to be with teams in training camp and there's almost every offensive coach is tasked with a certain element of the offense. You know, one coach is saying, he's gonna go through all the third downs. Another is going through all the first downs. Another one's going through all the red zone. You know, and then they come together and then they work it out. And then obviously Sean Manning calls it during the game. But it's not just Sean Manning who does all of this by himself. Sure, but on game day, it's happening. I agree on game day. Yeah, but it's a big, it's good point. Well, here's a great point. I hope people understand that because it's easy to rip Sean Manning and I'm sure Philly fans did that after Monday night's game. And I'm not saying that, look, I'm not saying that during the game, you know, look, I think he got a little outclassed

48:03because he was in his third game as a coordinator and he went against a 30 year defensive coach in the league. But people really need to understand that in the preparation, it's not just Sean Manning. And if you know, so you have to really understand that because that's not the way teams work. Give you guys a great example. I wrote a story about this for Philly Voices week. It's mind of being ironic because Aaron Donald is not going to play. But he is, the Eagles of play against the Rams with Aaron Donald five times. And I went back and looked at footage. They always had a great plan for how to block him that involved a number of things. Slide protections, double teams, sometimes triple teams, moving away, running away from him, quick game, RPO, they've, Aaron Donald is the only team that the Eagles of play three times or more and has no sacks against, okay? Jeff Stoutlin has been the offensive line coach for every single one of those games. And Doug Peterson or Nick Sireon, whoever's calling plays in any of those five games, they couldn't call those plays if Aaron Donald was wrecking them. So what Jeff Stoutlin was doing up front

49:03from a blocking scheme standpoint was very important, right? So to your point, Greg, position coaches, blocking. Yes, that's huge. They all are a part of that. And just so people understand that, the game calls are our spaniard, no question. Right, again, we're trying to be clear here and have people understand how this stuff works, that it's easy because of game day to rip the offensive coordinator. And again, I'm sure there are times it's, you know, it's a dessert, but during the week it's not all Sean Manion by any stretch of the imagination. I'll take it a step further and what Greg was talking about on game day, because there's a lot of, you don't have a lot of time, but the communication between all the coaches, because he's not gonna be able to see it all, although I guess he's upstairs, but he's concentrating trying to call the game. And this is why communication is so key because this is only his fourth game calling plays. He doesn't have his top two pass targets. This comes with creativity during the week, coaches, game plans, there'll be a run game plan,

50:06there'll be tight end game plan, there'll be run court air game plan, they gotta, this is just fascinating to see how this is gonna come about because being this shorthanded on a short week, let's not forget they played last Monday, so they have almost two fewer days to do this. It's gonna be hard. I mean, keep in mind they have Josh, is the grizzar of his art. His art, Josh grizzar. His art, so he was in Tampa in the two years that Baker Mayfield had really good seasons. So I mean, he's another guy, he's gonna be brought in and whatever he's asked to do, a lot of people are involved in the weekly preparation for a game. All right, last thing Greg, Matthew Stafford through three weeks, how's he looking to you, different, same numbers aren't, go ahead. He looks the same, I mean, he threw the pick return for a touchdown last week was just an inaccurate throw. You know, everyone, look, he threw the ball 55 times, give or take in that game, which again, he's capable of doing that, but you don't want him to do that. You know, I mean,

51:07McVeigh is not going into a game saying, let's have Stafford drop back 55 times. But Stafford obviously is just an elite throw over the football, one of the best we've seen over the last many decades. And, you know, he's one of the few guys, and I remember having this conversation with Phil Simge years ago, where the physical has remained and the mental is at the highest level. You know, not many quarterbacks can maintain the physical, with the mental being what it is, because the body just starts not to work the same way. So, is he going to, you know, force some balls on occasion because he's always been an aggressive mindset thrower? Yes he is. And there's no question that if you get bodies around him, we've won in the game in Australia. The 49ers had no sacks, but they had bodies around him all the time. He was throwing out of a hole. You know, as Adam might remember, Ron George used to use that term all the time, throwing out of a hole. And, you know, that's what you need to try to do with Stafford, try to get him throwing out of a hole.

52:07Awesome. All right, let's do what we do best. Eagles are three and a half point underdogs at home. I do not remember the last time. Eagles were three and a half point dogs at home, it's probably been quite a while, but that's the situation they're in. Adam, give us the winner and the player of the game. I've got Rams 24 Eagles 13. Wow. Yeah, yeah, it's just, I just had this feeling earlier in the week that Smitty wouldn't play because he's had this injury, as I said, you're going back to early August, not good. It's, it's, they're just, it's going to be hard for them to score. It's a tough challenge for Manion. It's, it's kind of unfair, but it is what it is. This is what he's got to do the best job he can and see what happens. But my player of the game would be Devante Adams. I really do. I know it might rain, so we'll have to see how well they could throw the ball, but he is, as Greg said, is off to a phenomenal start. And that the Rams coaches know reek will and real well. And I'm sure they'll try to get some matchups on him.

53:09It's a great point. I didn't think about that. Very good point. Devante Adams, a Hall of Famer. It's getting close. I got to look at the numbers. I'll see this seesaw in what we used to call us in baseball, the almost Hall of Fame, at a minimum, at a minimum. He's absolutely the conversation. That's a great question. Well, the thing, he's about 33, 34, and he's still doing it. Yeah. The level's pretty incredible. He's just a compiler, Adam. No. He's pretty good. I'll get me started with that. Go ahead. Go ahead, Greg. You know, the thing about picking games, and just in general, I mean, obviously we do this and we have fun with it. And I'm sure people think that if we're wrong, we're ready, it's, but, you know, all we have is what, or the way I can think about is what I've seen on film up to this point. I can't predict, you know, something dramatic changes this week. You know, and that can happen, by the way, in an NFL game, as we know, you know. But based on what I've seen, I would agree with Adam that it's hard for me to look at this Eagles offense in this given game and say, man, they're going to explode.

54:10You know, and, because I'm somewhere along the lines with Adam, I'm looking at the Rams 23 and the Eagles 16, you know, somewhere along like that, that kind of game. Now, again, there's no way to know about an individual big play or a special team's play. There's no way to predict any of those things. But just looking at the game as to what we've seen through three weeks, you know, and three weeks is not a large enough sample to say, this is the season, but, you know, you know what I'm saying. I think you guys would agree with me. And I don't know your... On paper right now, it looks to you like the Rams are 23, 16 better. On paper. And if I had a pick, you know, no, I mean, I'm just going to pick Matthew Stafford because, you know, I don't know who else to pick. Quick release, quick release, eight that last week. That's fair. So I don't like to make different picks on different platforms. So earlier in the week, I didn't realize that the Rams were going to be without Aaron Donald too.

55:11But I just felt in general that if you look at the Eagles last few years when they lose a game, especially when they have a bad defensive effort, they pretty frequently snap back defensively the next week. It's very rare that Vic shows you two bad games on defense. I think their defense will play a lot better in this game and they will force some turnovers for the first time this year. So I think this game is going to be close and I do think, say, Quan Parque Lee has a habit of having a very good game against this. And I just have this feeling that the Eagles, when everybody is counting them out, are going to wind up winning a game like this, then probably losing a game. Everybody thinks they're going to win either Jacksonville or down the road. But I'm actually going to go with the Eagles in this game. I'm going to pick them to win 27 to 23. That's a very good score. I've got to hear why. I mean, but I said I, because I believe the, I believe the Eagles defense will force turnovers, maybe even score a touchdown like they did last year or a special team said, I just think in general,

56:14they will bounce back. And I think that they're just going to catch the Rams. I mean, it's just a pick. I'm wrong sometimes. So everybody beats me over the head when I pick the eagle when I pick against them. I know they love to have that. But nobody ever gives me the right way. When I pick them to win. You could wall be right. I mean, I, you know, we're at the point in the season where it's so hard to know if a team is what they are or if they're still a work in progress. Clearly, when you have new coaches, that's what's so hard. We don't know that for a fact right now. I mean, I heard somebody say today that, you know, follows this closely that, well, Sean Manning's just going to be on your coordinator on his out of here. And I'm thinking, you know, can you say that after three games? I mean, you know, come on. I mean, again, who knows the answer to that? You know, right? Right. Right. You can't say that. But then you also can't say it won't because you never know. Right. Right. I mean, for that to happen, Barclay's got to be a major factor. We're talking 150, one 20. Well, that's why I picked him. I think he might have a huge game with two or three touchdowns. I mean, I think of it this way.

57:14And then we'll finish up, you know, think of the game Monday night. It was 10, 7 at the half, meaning that there was no need to change anything you were doing offensively, correct? Right. And Barclay had 11 for 72. And he had 3, 10 plus yard runs. I'm sure there are a lot of people watching that game. Unfortunately, I fell asleep. But there are a lot of people watching that game that might have felt that Barclay was on his way to run for 150, you know? And obviously it didn't play out that way. So, you know, it looked pretty good in the run game through the first half. Yep. That blown up screen on second and three on the second play of the second half after a Barclay 7. It almost, if I were to pick a turning point, it would be that. It just completely put behind the limit. What's that? Is that the screen to lemon? Yep. Yes. The first play they run is Barclay plus 7 to the right. They're in second and three. They're ahead of the sticks. And then they run this screen that has failed them time and time again. And then the next thing, you know, it's third and seven.

58:15And then hearts gets pressured, throws it away, and then away we go. You know, I mean, it was just, I hate to call a blown screen a turning point, but it really was. Yeah. And then they had the, starting with that series, they had three consecutive series, two punts and then I'm just going down. Three straight three. Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, it's, it's, I hope people understand this when we talk, you know, it's so hard to know after three games with new, new members on a staff and new systems put in. It's just so hard to know. By the way, weren't the Eagles two and two in 2024? They were and they looked this bad in the first four weeks. They looked terrible. You know, they always played the bucks week four. Remember, and they'd always lose. Yeah. Yeah. And then they would always play. They always played, they was falling. Right. They played Kirk Cousins in week three and the break in week four. That's the way it was. Yeah. And this guy was always falling after they lost to the bucks. So, so in week four, that was the game that you brought up. They got apps. Now, remember, they got smoked 33, 60. Remember, that was the game. Did I think AJ Brown? Who, who, they were a bunch of players out in that game.

59:17Oh, yeah. It was the Super Bowl year. OK, two years ago. OK. Week three, they struggled like hell to beat the Saints. And Barclays hit a 60 yard touchdown run. And they beat the Saints like 1310. No, no. Oh, well, yes, but the big play was the Dallas Goddard's mesh play. Yes, but I'm saying. Yeah, they didn't score a lot of points. Right. Everybody was still saying this offense, what the hell is this offense? Then they go, the next week and lose to the bucks as I recall. And then they have a ride. And the sky was falling and feeling alphia. Right. By the way, the next two games after the buy was an ugly win over the browns and an ugly win over the Jags. They were early weren't right until week 1010. Yeah. It was an ugly win. I remember the browns very well because I was actually in my grandson's birthday party because his birthday is October 13th. And they had the game on at the event. So I could at least watch it. And it was very, very ugly. Next, Cleveland game. That was so bad. Infield. Yeah, so bad. Yeah. All right. That was fun. Good show. And of course, William Adam and I will wrap it up on the inside

1:00:20the birds post game show after the game. That's going to do it for the inside the birds pregame show. Big thanks as always to Greg Cossill for joining us for Adam Kaplan. I'm Jeff Mosher. You've been watching the inside the birds pregame show on inside the birds.