Geocache Talk - The Lost Caches Project

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1:03Geocaching challenges out there. Each coin represents a completed loop of the Jasma Challenge marking your journey through the history of Geocaching. Whether you've conquered Loop 1, Loop 2, Loop 3, or gone all the way to Loop 4, there's a coin for you. These stunning Geocones were designed by renowned coin artist Christian Mackie, known for his incredible craftsmanship and attention to detail. And at just $25 each, there must have for any serious cashier. Don't wait. Grab yours today in the Geocache Talk Shop and show the world that you've mastered the Jasma Challenge. Whoa, hey, Gary, are we live? Are we live right now?

2:11We're alive and I'm coughing. He had some of that up to Keela too. That special signature flavor to Keela, you gifted people. I'm trying to shove down Dr. Pepper's when I'm doing right now the zero sugar version. Yeah, Gary, you're not supposed to inhale that just so I know I shouldn't say that. All right, let's get this show started. Let me let me get serious for a moment. Let me do a little solo here and we'll see the boys here in a moment. Yes, here I am. Okay. All right. Big thanks to our new patrons, Huck Retner, and our featured patrons tonight are Laurie, happy feet. The geocaching ninja. Nicole, that guy, he's pretty awesome. He's a great guy. He's a pull. He's a climbing fool. Nicole, Gary B. Sandy and Sharon.

3:16Thanks to all our patrons for keeping all of our shows on the air and I will wrap up that with showing the coin that you get. If you join us, even if you give us just $3 a month, you get a, it's a beefy, it's big, it's big old, thick beefy coin. Just to let our audio listeners know. It's a cool coin. I like it. It's nice. You get that for any, any version of Patreon, patreon.com, forward slash geocache talk. Help us out. Join us, become part of the family. And you get a coin. So, hey, not, not a bad deal at all. All right. I will bring back in the guys. There they are. The team. And there they are. Thank you guys for being here.

4:25And we will get started with several people on tonight, which is fabulous. We got a great group. We got a wild show tonight and we'll get through twig. I promise we won't take too long with twig, but we have some information we need to give on this week in geocaching. And we will be short succinct and to the point and here we go. 11th annual podcast to hope. We raised money for St. Jude. Saturday, December 5th. Mark your calendars. You can go to podcastofhope.com. And you can check that out. Very excited. Another great year. Shot, you know, did the as many years. Shot through the fences and got a couple really great. I mean, all of everyone's great. Don't get me wrong. But sometimes you shoot for the shoot for the moon outside of the geocaching sphere.

5:30And I ran it was able to pull in a couple of notables out in the world that I think are very excited to be on with us. And there'll be a nice compliment to folks like that we that we love like, well, the team and Darrell. I mean, Doug McCrady. Oh, he's tired. He's tired. He's tired. Yeah. But also amazing. His his story, his his amazing cashier and amazing. And a great great story of how Ms. Pacman even came about was amazing. Worldwide cash crews to we'll talk more about that as we do start to get closer. So we're gonna talk about that a lot more about the way that was released on September of next year.

6:34But again, you know, people tell you you don't want to and Charles could tell you he's done a lot of of. Cruises, you don't want to wait too long to get your crews booked. A year out Charles is probably a good time to get a cruise booked. March. Right. And so it is policy for almost every cruise line that you can put a refundable deposit down and they'll let you make old Kmart layaway payments interest-free. Right. It's the easiest way to go on a nice big, expensive vacation like this is to be able to make monthly payments on it interest-free, it holds your room and up until the last day to pay by which is normally like 90 days out from the cruise taking off. All of that money is refundable and depending on the cruise line there's

7:39some nuances in it but it's always best to if you are pretty certain that you may go but you're concerned about the price, put your deposit down, start making monthly payments on it and whatnot. And then as you do that you can then say for plane tickets or you know it gives you time to oh I don't have a passport yet, things like that. So it's the best time to do it is as soon as you know that you want to go. Right. Put your deposit down it holds your room and then you can make interest-free monthly payments until it's time to get on a plane. Makes it manageable absolutely. Quick note on a mega that's going to be in Mexico, there's never been one there so if you want to get

8:39an FTM for Mexico I guess the Rocky Mountain G.A. Randevoo GC B.S. and B.A.X. Ray J. is in what's J? John. John. Okay sorry. John. Eight W. There you go. Well that was a that was a butchering of OGC code but you get the idea of Rocky Mountain G.A. Randevoo it's out there it's in the show notes. Also a quick note I was handed which was the pet photo contest. Post a photo of your pet geocaching in the comments on the original Facebook contest post and like the post entries close on October 26th the 25th. 25th sorry my

9:45eyesight's going. And then what we're going to do then after that it stops on the 25th of October and then public voting will take place through an online survey and a winner of the contest will get a swag track by thanks for giving. Yeah all pets are welcome Ray Geary like pets of any kind. Yes all live pets are welcome. Um. You know anything right now with the stuffed animal versions of that. How about my emotional support pet rock does that count? Uh I will allow that no I can't allow that one. Oh come on Geary my emotional pet support pet rock. For a snake you could add those in there. Okay who cares. So if you have a snake pet snake you're you're good to go. Uh and then um one of my last um second to last one. Sitos across the world finally wrapped up as far as

10:52the page update on the website go to jukashtalk.com go to the Sito across the world and we have the the update on that. Uh big shout out to be biking Brian Erickson for doing all that and um allowing us to post that on the website. Um so personal congratulations to him. Um and uh thank you for bringing everyone together. Um so the people that traveled the law the furthest for the Sito 700 plus miles um was me and don't me and don't with the furthest. We went all the way to Wyoming um but we also went to Gilby so I guess we kind of once I cheated it wasn't all all all altruistic we also cashed through Gilby but uh we did go something tells me though Gary no

11:55geocasher ever travels in a straight line unless unless sir it's an FTF that may be the only time that happens. That's the only time yeah so go to the website go to go to jukashtalk.com forth slash Sito across the world to put a dash between all that and then uh forth slash at the end and you'll get to that and you can see the tons of how much how many tons of trash were done how many people were involved um great fun how many events and um so there you go and then my last item to then pass off to you guys which is uh coin geo coin fest um will um when that occurs both Don and I will be there and she's bringing all of the save the girls purses will be there so if you haven't bought your save the girls purse for all you ladies out there uh men too if they want to buy save the girls purse that's you know

12:58to each his own um so more information coming on that soon um and that is in Romeoville Illinois and there's an actual side event at the july at prison so if you want to come uh um spend the night in prison you're in you can come come to july at and uh enjoy a little um blues brothers so cool and uh so all right over to you guys i'm done okay i gotta i gotta give some shout out quick to some folks in the chat room here including strand in who says hi chef bow yard from nb i'm gonna guess that's new brunswick canada so so thank you for joining us today appreciate that we got um craester king mentioning his uh emotional support snake so you know that that's always a good one to mention and uh top top brotherman reminded me about my emotional support pickle so yeah tom i think i'm gonna submit that as as my pet my

14:01emotional support pickle yeah that makes a lot of sense and i get to give a big shout out too to my friends angel band that who said they got their first earth cash published today so how awesome is that that's awesome yeah congratulations to them on that one and uh i got a few things guys on my twit for this week the first thing i wanted to mention is awesome logs because like i don't know about you guys but to me when i get an awesome log like that just like energizes me gets me going especially one when somebody writes it like you're on an adventure with them and and you're really kind of like you like you know feel like you're there so i got to give a big shout out to uh boxy stevee too who wrote just some awesome logs on all of my cash as i think i great storied every single one i believe that she wrote um and then flowers 22 as well too that was up in beautiful western new york that unfortunately i need to get a chance to see patty um i hope she got some some pickle pizza i'm hoping on that one um but but a few things guys i want to talk about too

15:08is is i got an adventure lab idea um and i never thought i'd do an adventure lab like this one um but i think i'm gonna do a tailor swift adventure lab guys oh boy and i don't consider myself a swifty but one of the things i learned through a log from foxy stevee uh 22 or foxy cv2 excuse me was that there is a strong tailor swift connection to the area where he lived and and in fact kind of like a key question is would tailor swift what would she want exist if it wasn't for like you know this area and then two would tailor swift have actually been successful in your career if it wasn't for this area so so some fun facts i found out guys was that tailor so great great grandparents um we're actually just like born or actually lived about a mile or so down the road from me no they came from bavaria germany came here and actually had a music store believe it or not

16:10so um you know i thought that was kind of interesting and then it was funny a few weeks ago i had a music producer stopped by my office and he told me how a song that was demoed in a building on campus it was by a band called um six pence none the richer i don't know if you guys ever heard of them and it was a song yeah maybe not maybe not but yeah they made a song called kiss me and it was actually just recorded on our campus like the demo so that was neat to kind of hear the story but while i was online doing stuff a short plate of tailor swift and and it turns out that was actually the first song she ever learned to play on guitar no way it or not was that song yeah and then um and then it was interesting a graduate of the college where i work in 2024 actually mastered her album as well too so so i'm like i think with all this guys i got to make a tailor swift adventure lab yeah so so yeah and ansie johnson she's heard of the stuff too so you guys you guys

17:13know that um you know i'm legitimate there you know so um we never dated you oh well thank you Charles i i didn't know if you're just like you were such a big swifty you were just approaching me and kind of like a very cautious careful way you know wow i didn't know i didn't know but you know i'm glad about that and um last thing i want to mention guys this whole week i found one geocache one geocache sir okay but but this was a good one because i filled my 366 calendar and i looked at it i had an adventure lab for today but i did not have a non-adventure lab find so i was like i got to do that i got to do that kind of find one so i did we cashed in the rain mumboi little molly caching crew yesterday we found quite a few but um you know we were we we we did well but

18:13i'm kind of a wimp when it comes to the to the rain so well i mean the one where i had to buck over my head yeah i heard a rumor you melt in the rain gary i don't know if it's true or not okay they were giving me a hard time about that you're like you remember when you put the bucket over your head it's like yes i didn't want the rain you know if i could it didn't help i still got soaked anyway yeah yeah so so Charles see if you can top the Taylor Swiss story in the bucket head story my friend with your twig go for uh you know it was a it was a short week in geocaching for me i only found three caches this week but two of them were first of finds so i got i got a first to find on a on a mystery cache and first to find on a new traditional so uh just three little finds and uh but two first of finds this week cool that is awesome excellent

19:17well i think we're ready then for topic of the evening for this show and um was suggested to me about this was um we call it the lost caches project and so um we can go in different directions with this guy but the idea behind it was or the original idea we can variation this thing tonight but the original idea was um caches go caches get archived and we walk away from it and they're not on the map anymore and we just sort of move on with life and we just ignore them to move on but the question comes up though is like what happened to the actual container so is it still out there did somebody go get it is it now geotrash or what or uh and depending on

20:19the size of it you know is it is it there and it's it's slowly going into you know is it close by and it's just sort of now becoming a lonely not a lonely cache because it's now archived but is there a possibility that's still out there and so my thought was that you could create in your area a lost caches project and you could sort of make it uh you can even make it like a cito out of it so you're gonna pick up trash along the way and you know so you can sort of make a cito type version of this or you could just have a group of people who you know in some places and I know Charles has got some he's gonna bring up they're like the you kind of need to be in a little bit of a good shape to do some of these caches but there's people out there that love that are I wouldn't call them extreme hikers but they could be like advanced hikers that want to go

21:22do something different you know they might want to find some caches but then you might want to do this lost cached project and so we're all the three of us are gonna bring up possibilities I know John's gonna start off he wants to talk about I think a little bit as far as the a little bit of what I just mentioned so take what I what I just mentioned in a mess but clean it up for me. Absolutely and I think for me guys I'm gonna talk about um the first I think archive cache I found and to me it was kind of such a cool experience because I was walking down a trail and and it was like like an old rail trail and it came to this like like culvert and I thought to myself I thought like how cool would that location be for a cache so I hike down there into the culvert went through and I I love culverts I love tunnels I love all of that right

22:23and and I look up and I see this like old decon container like sitting there and and I'm like I'm like what is that you know and I'm like is that is that an old cache because I don't know about you guys if there's like nobody I don't know anybody that's put out like decon containers and like probably like 10 years you know I was gonna say so so I found it and I looked inside in the logbook was there and you know I looked at all those old dates and everything and I was like this is kind of cool you know I mean if one for kind of like my gotten intuition being like I wonder if I could hide a cache there and then that old one being in there but you know to me it kind of made me think I almost felt like I don't know like maybe like a caching archaeologist or like a caching like Indiana Jones just kind of like going and finding these like hidden you know because I mean like who who typically in the right mind looks for these archive caches right you know right and and I got I got to recognize a bird turtles comment on here too he says

23:26he just found 3d concatyspoms house yeah I mean it'd be kind of funny to like put those out there and say like you know cache container from the past you know on that one yeah but yeah I just got such an excitement over that I just kind of like love that experience um so you know since then I found some other archive caches too along the way and to be like I don't know I just love that connection with geocaching history it's kind of like when you find an old cache too and it just like has all those old logs in it as well too from years ago right and especially when people write like some serious stuff in their logs when they just weren't signing them you know right they're actually putting stories and narratives in right so you know to me I kind of thought like it's just such a cool experience and such a cool side game of that in order to do that that I love the concept of the last cache project I really do and I know kind of when we're

24:27talking about the show kind of thinking too if you were to gamify it for your area or even put out events to look for those old caches oh yeah you know I think that could be a blast too but it kind of made me think because um you know I think a question some people may have is okay if you're not stumbling upon them like I did what do you find these old caches you know like like where do you guys go I know I got a few thoughts on this one yeah um I got a project GC project GC will include archive caches if you use the map compare tool there are some options in there for you to include archived caches um and whatnot so in fact here I've got it pulled up yeah that would be great to show everybody how to do it um so here's the so you come up here to tools and the map compare tool

25:33now I'm a premium member on project GC and so there are some features that are only built for premium members so if you're not a premium member I've never not been one what for project GC so I don't know if this tool is a premium member tool or not but if you're a premium member you'll you do have access to it um but you click on the map compare tool um and then you put in your name and who you want to compare it with so this is me compared to my wife um looking for caches that were found by neither of us in the United States in Utah in Washington County and then here's the check mark right here in the middle um for uh include archive caches right um yeah and so um it's uh one of those things and then when you when you go in and submit it'll pull all of the

26:37caches that neither of us have found but it also includes um archived caches right and so there's there are a bunch of these um you know but if you scroll in um you can see all of these that have an x mark on them are all um archived caches and so there are several long strings of of caches that have been out there that neither of us have found um because they got archived long before uh we got here but this is primarily how I go and look for archived caches um I'll go and look for an area and say all right you know I'm looking for this and um this is what I'm looking for and this is where I want to look for um here's um Zion National Park and so you can see a couple of archived uh earth caches and archived virtual um and then a bunch of archived

27:41traditionals right outside um the gate so that's how I look for um archived caches um and especially if you're looking for some um for some old caches um or if you're like no there used to be a cache on the map here do the map compare tool um and that shows you how to um that'll show you all on archived caches so if you know where you're looking for um it'll show up on the map excellent yeah and I like this some many different ways because I mean one to get those archive caches and then I don't know if you guys have ever used the the map compare tool for this reason two for the archived but you're thinking about hiding a cache and and sometimes you're looking like where of caches been hidden in the past right so to see that map compare tool and and I just got to give one to a bit too um especially if you're looking at a location and if you're reading through old logs and people are like hey I give this a favorite point just for the location on this one

28:43it's like if that does not tell you if there's no cache there you should hide a cache there um to be that kind of just screams out like that like hey think about doing that you know yeah and vice versa on that if you go back and look at some of the caches that are archived and look at how many times the cache had to get replaced for maintenance because it went missing you can be like all you know that's a I think that is a a neat spot to go to but apparently a bunch of other people think the same thing and may walk away with your cache container so you can look at both sides of that as well yeah um Tom said um oops sorry Nicole from the group Tom's Tom said I have found a few other archived caches because lots of people thought this is a good this is a great hiding spot yeah right absolutely yeah um but I'll bring the calls up because she did bring it up and I've clicked on it ran to a repurposed

29:48old creative cache that had a ton of favorite points it was just a lack in a lock a lock and yes in the dilapidated box from the post yeah so it's interesting um we was looking at a couple of them that they were they were containers that had basically just got buried over time I mean the it must have had some rain it got mud over it and nobody had found it for a while and the mud turns dirt and it gets packed and then you know and so we sort of we kind of forget about the fact I mean it's out in the it's out in the wild and a container can can kind of go missing from just leaf litter then dirt then mud then a tree fallen I mean there's

30:49a lot of times when um and then people come along and they're like no I can't find it where it's going to you know you get enough people saying eh I'm not really searching that hard for it that causes HQ to go oh well reviewer is like well we've got four or five people who have quote searched for this cash uh didn't really but they sort of got eh can't find it and it gets archived and then it's gone and then the the owner goes well I knew it was out there but you know four DNFs can't be wrong so then you know they don't go out there to get it that's and that's for another show but um oh yeah and I got it out on that one too Gary like how many times you hide your cash and somebody hides it better than you did and I'm saying like better in quotes for audio listeners um because I know that's happened to be in the past we're like I go and I look and I'm just like oh last person couldn't find it and I'm like I didn't hide

31:50that cash there you know and when that you have kind of that cash migration where people keep on hiding in the little further down and down and down you know yeah and then and then and then uh you know somebody who found it in the past goes hey people couldn't find it let me see if I can find they're like yeah wasn't in the spot where it was before you know oh yeah must be missing so there's a lot of those but uh let's I want to switch gears and talk about a couple of them and that Charles and I talked about beforehand and he's got some extras too in this in this topic but and I know John will definitely chime in on this as well but um if you if you do some research and do some do some historical checking on this the project ape caches which were the ap um plan of the apes um promotion which is insane on its own it really needs another whole show but

32:562001 caching a bit around about a year and somehow they got I don't know how the how that whole process goes we'd have to get something on that maybe has all the information but they get this promotion like major production movie production thing to do and they they they publish or they yeah they they hide all these caches um there were 14 correct me if I wrong was there 14 14 original ones there was a 10a and a 10b um so there there's one through 12 but there's a 10a and a 10b so that brings you to 13 and then there was a special planet of the apes premiere in um New York City so that brings you to 14 total right ape caches and as far as I know

34:05correct me if I'm wrong it may need me just more research on this but they were all the large ammo can uh what's the name of those do you remember Charles with the it's not 10 millimeter no no they're they're bigger than the 25 millimeter ammo cans that we used in the army um they're like the ones that held rockets right um and so they're you know they're they're three feet long and then the you know dimensions of a 50 cal ammo can a little bit bigger than that at the top but then they're like three and a half feet long so right I've got I've got two of them in my garage you're right you you have two ape caches in your garage Charles I have two of the same style oh okay okay I was just checking because I was like man this is going to be like one interesting twist

35:05to this lost project for Charles is like yeah I got a couple of the apes there's no big deal no big deal of course now there's there's now two left there was one left for many years the one the one in Brazil and then the one near Seattle near the the tunnel there and uh it was found by basically seems like thing it was a lost cache and they folks went out there and said you know what I bet you this container is still out here and they they did some hunting as a group and they found it and that's that's a good example of a lost caches project is they basically dug this thing out from what do you think a hundred fifty yards Charles you think was it really yeah it got thrown down the hill so if you've ever been to the

36:08mission nine tunnel of light cash you walk through the train tunnel and then you get out there and it's it's an old train trestle train trestle they carved into the side of the mountain and made a flat spot for train tracks and so you know once you get off of that it's a it's a pretty steep drop down to the bottom of that ravine where the interstate 90s and so what they're assuming happened is somebody grabbed that ammo can pulled it out of the jet trestle that it was in and then hooked it off the edge of the road what used to be the train tracks up there they threw off of that and then down into the ravine and so you know they found it you know whatever it was you know 150 yards 200 yards from there but it was like 300 feet in elevation drop run so you know I mean so those people that went looking for it and found it they did some they did

37:12they did exactly what we're talking about here right like we're talking about these really large ammo cans that had to get hiked into somewhere hidden and then are they really going to hike them out knowing the trouble that it took to hike them in and we'll talk about the one that I was researching and whatnot but you know did would you really have spent all that time hiking out there and then pulling it out just to hike it back to your car you know and so you know unfortunately you sit there and think about that and like there's no way somebody that's a very popular bike trail and so I'm sure you know maybe somebody on a bicycle and they were like well I have no way to take this anywhere and so to heck with it and threw it over the edge right and whatnot so I you know uh good on those people who went out searching for it that had the same thought process I do on it

38:16is that now somebody's not going to hike this all the way back through that you know mile of train tunnel and whatnot back to a car you know and plus the chances of you possibly running into somebody along the way that's a geocache or heading out knowing that they're looking for that large ammo can yeah it's not like it's easily just you know hideable yeah and so you know somebody's going to be walking through the train tunnel with a flashlight and see you with this giant ammo can under your arm with a giant ape painted on the side of it and be like hey uh you know and so yeah they just found it and so they just tossed it over the edge and it went down the ravine and some adventurous geocashers went out and found it um you know called John mountain bike who was the the caretaker for that one he's the guy that got published and was taking care of it um called him um I don't know if

39:22he went out to snow call me pass where they were at or if um but anyhow they ended up at HQ with this ammo can um and whatnot and so at some point in time um it ended up back at HQ and I think the original ammo can in the log book or they're in the in the lobby they've replaced it with a new ammo can and a new log book and whatnot um in the same spot that it was and um I've gone back since then to find the so that I could get the icon and um it's heavily chained inside that tree stump and whatnot and I believe somebody may have gone out there and uh concreted it into that tree stump so that it can't come out so um it's it's not going anywhere for a while but uh you know but that's what we're talking about yeah and we'll look at a couple of others that are probably good

40:23examples of that same thing happening to them um just because the chances of somebody you know willing to hike over a mile through some of this terrain that these were hidden in um to get it back to a car and the chances of that are are pretty slim in my opinion yeah especially for 2001 right exactly yeah so quick notes to a cool story from he's he's Texas Dave um uh yeah and um C3 says feel like two miles of train tunnels times two yeah he had to get back out of there afterwards that's very true um and um you know everybody's uh you were mentioning about the you know it was fun and the the the thing about it too that uh you know I would john comment it but um you know finding the the group that found it down the hill you know and brought it back I mean

41:26I've talked to a couple of them and of course they're beaming like you know which is which is what you want they're they're they're like proud poppers of a you know with a new new oh yeah they should be like we found it this is incredibly you know and it is it is an incredible thing and so um we've got a couple I've got a couple candidates uh Charles and he has another candidate too but I've got a couple but john did you want to say something real quick about that yeah I just wanted to say because I mean helping out with the trail group um yeah it's amazing how many things that people will not know is just like right off the trail you know yeah so I mean it's one of those things like you go down a trail the whole time and most people go right down that same trail and even think when you geocache because like a lot of times if you're leaving the trail when you're geocaching going to that cash and coming back um but yeah you'd be surprised what would be right by that trail or even sometimes like not too far away from where you are um so yeah it's it's not unheard of you know

42:29for people to find like certain things like that so you know I think you're right because you know we've had people like try to move things and then they kind of like you know that effort to do that is just not worth their time that they think is funny in the first place so yeah I I think I mean like using that ape cash as an example I mean yeah somebody chucked it down that terrain where nobody was going to go to find it but there's got to be a lot of other old cashers guys that are still out there you know yeah just waiting to be found yeah so I've got a couple I want to mention and then um so in the whole the whole list by the way is are in the show notes so definitely after the show you go check the show notes or you can you can google it or you know uh AI and if you want to try to find the list but I have a couple candidates I want to bring up and tell you kind of why again if you read about every one of them it's a fascinating fascinating history of the

43:33caches of um you like wait we have there was 14 of these things and there's why there's two I mean what happened the other 12s like well each one has a story but um the one in California um devil spoon yeah that's ape cash number one number one gc a four b which is tells you how if you get an idea of gc codes you can tell it's a long time ago that cash um is right off of a trail so I think the problem was that people went down the trail thinking it's at the end of the trail which is where it was supposed to be and they get down there and it's like it's not here so like oh it's gone okay well true but it's a long it's a hike out I mean it's not a it's not a short is this no parking grab I mean they put that thing out there uh and again

44:35my thinking is that it's similar to the same situation different terrain but or well or just unique terrain in that um they people again they went down to the trail they went to it and they go not here and they look around the area you know the work 10 20 feet they're done but I'm wondering if if you were to travel there with a group like for this lost caches project and you go out there even the to this day you could go out there with a group maybe say 20 or 30 people motivated people who are going to do a little search in and you search I don't know what what do you guys think 150 150 yards in every direction maybe 200 yards terrain would dictate but I would look I would look downhill before I looked uphill sure yeah yeah and especially if it was on the way back from where the post-acordinants were

45:38to then towards the trail had thinking did somebody put that effort forward to then pick it up and then start to bring it back right um and so um we uh we had our car broken into at the San Jacinto monument and kids in the wife had um books or a backpack taken from from our car and of course that's you know it was you know whenever you get broken in so it's a disturbing thing but it's like we kind of wanted to get that backpack back you know and we're in my you know I went through the brain the brain went through the process of okay there was no money in it uh there was nothing of value to somebody who didn't want those books the you know the family wanted the books back so I was like okay well let's let's think about what happened they took it they took off and started driving and then they were taking they were going through rifling through the

46:40backpack and said there's nothing in here of value they probably are going to chunk the backpack out the window and so we took the regular trail or the regular road out of San Jacinto but we did it slowly and carefully and methodically going I bet you that backpack is somewhere on that on that road and sure enough we drove a little ways and everybody's really looking you know really looking for this backpack and sure enough there it is and so we were able to retrieve retrieve all that um I'm still out of broken window but you know those were repairable and but they wanted there there was some there was a journal and there was some other info that you know people wanted in there that they were they were so grateful to get back because there's you know personal information personal yeah you know you don't lose so anyway so I think that this I think this idea is plausible the other one I want to mention real quick which was Georgia the cash

47:49for Georgia is called river bearer GC for sorry GC1 to AC and that one isn't an interesting location is next to a river so that's always a little disturbing that somebody chunks it into the river you know it's gonna be you know quite a ways away but the location of it is not a really large park but it's the kind of park that from the pictures I've seen is that there's some fairly serious undergrowth if you're not on the little park trail and so my thinking was again people go down the trail back in the day they're gonna have a trail cash is supposed to be right here

48:55cash is gone you know they look for five to ten minutes you know within 10 15 feet of that location they look a little bit in the woods around it and then they then they they you know they DNF it few DNFs later it's archived and gone but did somebody do the you know drag that big ammo can you know strap to their back out of that park maybe maybe not but the other part to this one the reason why I bring this one up is that a really good CTO setup and you really and in really do some recruiting get 20 30 people there you those people you could all go through that you know well you know carefully you know where you're where your boots and everything else you could sort of span through that thing as a group and you know get you know make sure you stay you know

49:58you know on a in a pattern so everybody checks you know the the area they're supposed to be checking next to each other and I think you could you could you could canvas that area you know not too long but you could my thinking is similar to those that this thing's probably maybe still out there it's in the brush and if you could find and I'll let the guys tell about their the ones they've got thinking but my last thought on this portion of the show is that would it be unbelievable for you to find that and if you were able to find even if the lids gone or whatever if there were happen to be anything left of that container with the like Charles showed the project he looks at the project April he's doing the the thriller by Michael Jackson yeah and you know what that's a

51:02very natural thriller move Charles I just have to say that was like you just float right into that very well sir yeah I I wanted to gear again this one I got to bring up this cash page right it's um so so on this one to bring it up and for our audio listeners I I have like that little thumbnail of the map here and and I'm gonna I'm gonna butcher this with my northern west New York accent there's a river here and I think it's Chad a Ho Chi river is that how you pronounce it okay I'm getting a not from Charles it is it's the Chad a Ho Chi river um yeah there's a country song about the Chad a Ho Chi river right okay okay I'll send you a link to it later you can listen to it I would love to I would love to listen to that for sure yeah but guys when I look at this I see this Abe icon right on the Chad a Ho Chi river yes I'm thinking if somebody really wanted to find this a cool event that they could do is call call it magnet fishing for the for the ape cash

52:07and just everybody goes there like get some magnets goes to that river it's just so close and and then just start magnet fishing you know how cool would that be I mean for one if you find it but then two just as an event calling it magnet fishing for an ape cash like if you lived in that local area how could you not attend an event like that just saying yes is Alan Jackson correct I agree um you know and uh if I was local I'd show up to a magnet fishing event that just you know be like okay what do I need where do I need to buy it from what kind of magnet you know and you know because think about it the rivers right there and and that river has flooded in between but if somebody you know was like here put a couple of rocks in it leave the lid cracked and just toss it out there that thing's sitting at the bottom of this murky muddy rivers and and you know and it's

53:12on the inside of a bend and so fast water channel is on the outside of that and so there's probably good chance that that you you know put it if it didn't get thrown in the river man there's a really good chance that you may find it magnet fishing it just how awesome would that be if you find an ape cash magnet fishing right yeah and it could be I don't know 10 feet out there who knows it's just never yeah yeah it's just to be great and just be great fun but um I know Charles you had one more you think the one San Francisco is it that you were thinking no so the one that I was looking at was this mission one devil spoon right and so um so here let's we want to share while you're pulling that one up if you go read the again some of these are the

54:17create the craziest things um the the I don't want to get off topic but go read the the Japan one I don't think it was there's some that one was never found never had a legitimate find no FTF yeah um it's crazy go ahead so this is mission one devil spoon um and it tells you that you have to park at the Uplands picnic area and that you start your hike from there now since then it looks like the California Harps division has built a couple of additional roads and parking lots that probably didn't exist in 2001 right but that's where it tells you to start from and of course there's no way point there's nothing else on the map that shows you so here's the little um the little thumbnail map that's in the corner with the ape icon and but that's all you got so if you realize that at some point in time they went made a memorial cache that's called the return to

55:24planet of the apes right so this is that um this right here is the return to planet of the apes so I've switched screens I'm looking at a now live map um of active caches now this parking lot does not sound like it existed back in the day right the one that my mouse is going around right over here at the rocks at the rock city park this parking lot is the parking lot that you had to park at right and then you had to walk up this trail and around through here and around and over to this to get to this return to this is the uh location for the original ape cache that was there and so um you know it's that the cache page says that it's a 30 minutes worth of hiking and that it's a got some very steep uphill sections from the parking spot so you figure that somebody's going

56:25to have to walk a fairly steep uphill with an ammo can to get out here and so if you're going to take it and take it home you now have to navigate this trail and the steep downhill sections now trying to carry an ammo can yeah you know um probably not what the case is so I will flip and look at this is that same return to planet of the apes but I've now switched to the photogallery from for this right and so um you know here's a a picture of the terrain that it's in oh wow right and so you can see that it's right on the crest of this ridge line that runs the length of this park they're in chest high you know uh belly button high depending on how vertically inclined you are um but it's it's going to be belly button to mid chest height for most um most people

57:32you can see this character right here is holding the ammo can in his hands yeah and so you know you know how big that thing is and you're going to have to hike all the way back but this brings me back to the thing for the snow qualmy um the uh mission nine if you toss this thing and got a good spin on it and hooked it out into the wild blue yonder and it landed even 50 feet downhill uh it's not going to go far because there are all these bushes but 50 feet downhill and now it's sitting in chest high bushes down slope and that thing could still be there easily yeah you know um we'll see um here's a another picture of the view from GZ and so you know if you're if you're looking downhill at this um you know it's uh let's see there was here's a good

58:37picture so there's the ammo can that comes up to this guy just above the knee and look at what's behind him and so really if somebody really just if the ammo can was for the most part empty minus a log book and they put the handles on it and grab it and they just did a couple of good turns and and hooked it or gave it the good old shop put um right that that one especially um could still be there um you know and because when you come back here and look at it it got found eight times it had two DNFs on it by somebody who now has 514 funds and somebody who now has 67 but probably in 2001 were you know potentially in low double digits or even potentially single digits yeah finds looking for this they two DNFs on it um you know and then there are three right notes on

59:43it um and it just says that hey you know the cash is the project eight person um put a deal on here that you know they were unable to to relocate the cash it seems that authorities uh may have finally traced they did something that kind of made it sound more movie-ish um in their log but they put that hey cash container is missing and then it gets archived and that's it and it just fell off the face of the earth and so you know um so there are two right notes um the one guy added what the spoon looked like um that was in the cash yeah um there were two DNFs and then uh hey the cash is apparently missing um this was before publication and archived logs were things so there's no archive log we don't know when it was archived um it just says that it was locked and is available for viewing so we don't know when it was archived um you know presumably after you know the

1:00:50somewhere around the 1st of September of 2000 well this person added a picture in 2006 but you know you're looking at the beginning of July 2001 so who knows when it got archived um you know uh you know presumably sometime shortly thereafter um and whatnot but that's it that's all you got you got one DNF you got eight fine logs on it um you know and uh and zero pictures but by looking at the the replacement like memorial cash for it from you know it it it doesn't potentially you know like you might I might go in the dry season um if there's no snow up there I go in the dry season with a drone and just zigzag it back and forth if you had a uh a drone that

1:01:55could take um if you had a camera and they're expensive but I saw a guy who showed how he was building one from um parts that he got from like uh from annazon I wanted to say radio shack but nobody knows what radio shack is anymore yeah yeah what centuries is Charles really um but he built he built a lidar camera and fluid back and forth and he's taking some really high res um images of his neighborhood and his property with a lidar and um and his showed hey this is this is how you build it this is what you need these are all the parts this is how to do it um he mounted it to a sub 250 gram uh drone like the one I have so like a DJI mini right and the camera was small enough that he could hoist it with that and then he uploads all that data he brings it back pulls the sb card out

1:03:00plugs it into his computer um has a downloaded a program that will um do all of that and then he looks at the so if you did that the lidar camera can remove all of the vegetation but it can also sit there the lidar can also show you where metallic objects are um because the the waves come back to the camera different from um hard objects underneath the the canopy so you can go in and show houses foundations that are in the forest things like that and so depending on your elevation you could potentially find the ammo can if it's laying flat like this you know it may have a bunch of leaflet around top of it but you should be able to if you had a lidar camera in a drone uh be able to do that uh yeah well and that's a good point to Charles because I mean mounting on a drone would definitely get you a lot better imagery

1:04:04I also wonder too about like public light our data that's available um just to see if there's any sort of anomalies that it detects as well too yeah so there is some um usgs is doing a lot of lidar scans um I know that they have come out to the area that I cover for work and have done a bunch of scans in the area they do it they have some really big cameras and do it from a helicopter um and go through and fly but they found cave entrances that we didn't know about in the in the Arizona strip they found old foundations they have found um things of cultural significance like they'll find old ancient TP rings that are rocks that the Native Americans used to um put around the outsides of their TPs and so they don't take those rocks with them they're just

1:05:08when they move they just we'll find new rocks when we get to wherever we're going so they just move them off of their TPs enough to fold up their stuff and pack it up and so the rocks are left in rings out there in the fields and so when you find you know eight foot to 12 foot diameter rings of these rocks in circles and you have multiple circles you know that that was a place that Native Americans used to um you know used to set up shop at so they found all kinds of cool cultural significant things with them um and so I you know it's yeah if I had a lidar camera and a drone that was capable and you know uh uh uh four-day weekend yeah for sure I'd be out there doing dumb stuff with it absolutely and I'm just sharing right now screen share um if you go to the New York State GIS clearinghouse on here um you can go to uh like the discover app and on here

1:06:14if people just want to play with the lidar you can see on here there's imagery with streets that I'm selecting I can go to uh immigrant image with hillshade and and it's very interesting when you start to do that especially around like Lake Uri because you can actually then start to get a sense of where the old uh glacial lake shores were back in the day right so you know for example given you can kind of see like right around this was one of the lake shores and then right around here was another one um but yeah the lighter data is just takes it all the vegetation for you yeah it takes out all the vegetation you can see like all the land forms on here you can you can see like anomalies you know that are like manmade so yeah great tool for um uh for using for sure quick note uh we do love people have made great comments and like why have they mentioned my great comment because we do put a star on them and we're going to be do them John will go through them here

1:07:15in a few minutes um I do want to get through a couple here because I think there's a lot of uh interest in our lost cashers project um Tom mentioned uh I wouldn't go too far how much do these things weigh yeah that's a good question uh you know the ammo cans that are about that size if they're empty um you know they're going to weigh about eight pounds ten pounds um give or take it they're fairly lightweight they're made out of a pretty thin gauge steel um but they are coated inside and out as long as the military's paint is still on them um they are they're pretty much corrosion resistant um and will last for almost forever um they're not they're awkward to carry um they're you know and you know if you're walking over a mile across uneven terrain with something that's an additional ten pounds but you're talking about something

1:08:18that's going to be three and a half feet long yeah John it's so bulky it's just bulky and an odd it's you know uh burnt hurdles says when do we ride yeah get your lighter drones and magnet fishing gear ready my friend I like yes I like Tom's other comedy he's like we need the the chads the bounce bounce attract Eshes is on our search team and we have this uh this built them built this drone so yeah that's good thanks Tom that was good so anyway uh all right so we're at a point I think you will want to talk about anything any of the other ways or oh how about mine that's what I was that's what I was going to say you've got a really creative way that I hadn't thought about to look for archive caches so you know spill us down this rabbit hole sir sir yes sir yeah so on this one

1:09:20it's um you know I kind of thought because the ape cache made me think right what other historical caches are out there and if there's some combined in a list so I'm gonna I'm gonna drop a link to this bookmark list in the chat and I'm gonna do a screen share and share this um but I think this is a very cool opportunity for people to kind of think about this project and and really kind of start to looking for these old caches so I found this bookmark list um that was created by I'm gonna I'm gonna guess what their name is so if I butcher it don't hate me uh latta bohawk and the name of the list is worlds odys old excuse me worlds oldest by gc code with archived so so when you're looking here guys it's pretty cool right because you can actually see like 001 mics first by mic teague you can go through and see other hides by mic teague is well too which is just uh such a critical figure in our history of geocaching look at gc zero i know i know

1:10:24kid did you imagine if you found that like like like like archived cache gc zero you know yeah i mean you made that up nope nope didn't make it up any of these any of these because if you look through some and and i'd urge people like take this list look through it i mean number one it's cool just to see the history but number two if you see some of these that are close to where you live um you know it's probably worth looking and then number three on that one like Charles mentioned the tribute cache you know for the uh for the ape cache that was missing right if if one of these is archived that location is available this could also be a pretty cool tribute cache you know to connect to the history absolutely because if you're like hey davil marhead you know uh Williams lake here you know um in 2000 so this one is a tribute cache to that part of geocaching history like like i got to tell you guys like if it took me to a cool location tight in that history

1:11:27favorite point right then and they're my friend you know absolutely yeah no it gets up it gets the blue ribbon yeah yeah no doubt so so i i'd encourage people to explore this list and i'm not going to go through you know every single one i'm here but i just think for the historical perspective the opportunity to get a lost cache and like i said to think about like possible tribute cache i'm here too this list is just such an incredible wealth of information so i encourage everybody to check it out because i yeah and thank you for bringing up the show notes link on that one gary because like i got to tell you guys when i start to look through this list it was probably like an hour or two later and i'm like where do the last two hours go like seriously you know seriously yeah yeah it'll be out there right after the show uh it's on the website geocachetalk.com forward slash show dash notes but go there and um these notes will all be there that you can cruise make copy of etc

1:12:29all right and then charge you at some you do you have another item um you mentioned the map oh uh just uh yeah so the map compared to the map compared to will show you um if you when you look at an area it will show you the oldest ones that been were archived first and then go to new so they'll sort them in the list at the bottom underneath the map it sorts them in in uh gc code from from oldest to newest um but if you're living in an area so i'll use the local cashier that um we have here he just archived over 500 geocaches overnight here recently that that must have been a busy night forum getting all those containers so that brings us to the next point i talked to some other local cashiers that were like

1:13:33man we had we had this puzzle solved and now it's gone and i was like what is it it's archived but is it um you know and in that so if you know that there's some people in the area that that may have gone through something uh you know uh unfortunately it all happened it gets to the best of us but geocaches pass away and then they don't do maintenance and it may be at the requests of the family that they say hey we want all their geocaches archived and hq's not going to argue with that they're just going to archive them all yeah but if the cash was still there if the cash container was still there it may very well still be there and so if you know of situations that have happened like that um you know then then you can go and look at their cash profile and be like oh i'm going to go where were all their caches at when you go and look at this local cashier you archive 500 caches overnight and you go back and look at how many are regular size

1:14:38ammo cans or um you know he had a bunch of these pelican cases like this that are you know good quality container you know you could then sit there and reasonably say all right well i know that he hasn't you know things in life have have gone to where i know he's not gone out to this location to pull his ammo cans so i'm going to go you know hunt for that one or you know and you can log archive caches as long as the cash page is not locked um and so if you can find a bookmark list like john presented that showed a bunch of archive caches you can still log them if you can find them um i went just to look and i'm not suggesting anybody do this by any means but in the great off earth cash purges that have happened in the last couple of years uh grounds because gone in and archived all of those caches they have not locked all of those caches and i know that there are

1:15:40multiple people who have put all of those caches that were um set to be archived on a bookmark list and so i know there are these um earth cash purge bookmark lists out there right i mean they got archived because the owners weren't around to respond to your answers right yeah but if you go to the cash location and you fulfill the requirements and you post a photo i mean i'm just i'm just saying i have found numerous archive caches um and most of the ones that i have found were hey so and so has passed away you know all of his caches have been archived by the reviewer but we know i went with a couple of previous finders and we go out and look for them and uh you know and i've found several that way and so um you know it's it's doable yeah yeah what and that's a cool point too because i mean you know we've talked about tribute caches so many times

1:16:41you know either like like tribute back to a cached that used to be there but i mean that that could be a pretty cool thing too right to get a cached container that got archived that way and even at that location make it out of a tribute cached to that cached owner that hit it there and contribute it to your cached and community in the past i mean that could be cool um i have and in fact i have done that the i have a cached in necodotus texas which is the most favoriteed cached in the county um but it is one that we found it is cito event at a state park it was a first aid kit that it just happened to be archived like a couple of weeks prior we went out there cached container was still there so we all signed the logs signed the you know made a found it for the archived cached and then i took that cached home stripped it all down painted it put it in a local fire department um called heroes among us and put it back out there

1:17:42for the caching community and put the history of hey this used to be this container this is where we found it the state park wanted it really so cool man and so you know so and it's it happens to be the most favoriteed cached in the county now in in necodotus texas so it's kind of a neat way to to give back when you find some of these archived containers that are still in good condition all right john you want to go through we got several uh star item we'll go through and we'll answer folks's uh yeah we'll we'll bring them up the first one is from somebody that the name seems familiar guys it's uh tom brotherman seven eight three eight i don't know if i've met seven eight three eight tom brotherman though i got to be honest there um but he says how do you from salmatexas the geowoodstock store is now open oh that's cool so he says now the now is the time to get your credit card that gets your points out and come spend a ton of money on stuff for

1:18:45geowoodstock very cool tom thanks for letting us know hang on a minute all right that breaking news thanks john yeah you're you're welcome here i'm glad i could break something today and it was news um it guys we also got a big shout out from our friend Paul wellston uh from down under so thank you paul from joining us too that's that's very cool man and um he he used in texas dav was saying he ran across an archive cash when he was trying to place a new one yeah it happens it happens man yeah uh i read a letterbox while placing a geocache oh it wasn't a letterbox hybrid oh like letterboxing.org you're saying i got a org yes so i okay wow i did not put my cash there i

1:19:50sluted did a salute did a bow and i moved on to somewhere else to find my cash left the letterbox alone wow wow very cool and you know that made me think of another use for an archive cash you could always leave it there and make it a decoy cash for the you know so it's not your cash you hide your new cash you have a decoy one you know yeah i i don't know about you guys but it's like i don't see many decoy cash is anymore no that's funny yeah um let's see uh tom brotherman also says he got an fTF on an archive cash and it's gc 102 z zero this old house and it was archive before being ever found believe it or not because the cash page coordinates started n28 and the real one started n29 so it was almost 70 miles apart just one little number off yeah yeah what one number and we have a good reminder two from our

1:20:53good friend dawn saying if you enjoyed the show hit the thumbs up button on youtube to let us know and thanks for watching and supporting us we we always appreciate when people do that especially leaving comments as well too and um we have a good comment from uh tomara smith jen three who says that she took the gtn postcard to a postcard event today uh and wind field canzes and several of them discovered it was a great time sending out a whole bunch of postcards so how cool is that guys excellent yeah and and we got a good comment too from our good friend bell on the move saying on an fdf hunt he found an old archive cash first was a little bit confusing he said from that you could you imagine that going out finding a uh uh going for a first to find and then finding someone across you know whatever a peel bottle or a matchstick container and you open it up and there's years worth of people's signatures on the log yeah yeah that log in that logs the

1:22:00decoy log Charles so then you you have no one yeah i guess i'm all about decoys guys yeah and uh our friend jim says new attributes uh so new ideas on here magnet required for like magnet fishing or metal detector required how about those there you go i like those and um our friend c3 on here says they have an archit cash near them uh several dozen dozen people found it before it was archived sadly it was a multi and no one saved the final chords they asked and and they're saying guys can a reviewer provide that how would you answer that one oh god can't i don't know if they can or not do they you know i i don't know if um i don't know if they would be willing to to do that

1:23:01i don't know if they sign a disclosure agreement for what not on that but uh uh yeah i guess into the weeds yeah odds are probably against it my friends yeah and um top brother meant and i think Tom's asking about the list i showed and he said were those numbers added by ground speak when they took already available caches added gc numbers and then put them on the gc website i don't know guys for those little caches do you know how those worked yeah so the first hundred caches were assigned uh uh zero through one hundred and then they went through the alphabet so and then they went from like west coast to east coast in the united states and then went to europe so um it's somehow they went um you know uh one through whatever and then um started in the alphabet at some point because

1:24:05gcd is right there in washton state up near snowcaw me pass oh yeah here i go and so it's the only it is the only surviving three digit cash code geocache in the world is gcd um and it's uh up there on snowcaw me pass um in that general vicinity but yeah head quarters and there's a story that tells how the first um you know hundred and fifty or hundred and seventy five got done and they started in the west coast in um the u.s and west coast to east coast and they started all of the ones that were in europe um africa aja then australia um and then once those were all done the numbering scheme was automated from that point forward right and then two wasn't two uh john charles that the gosh i don't know how many of them were originally just on a bulletin board or uh

1:25:11i mean there was no they were on a like a yahu uh form they were on a form and so and they weren't called geocaches originally they were it was the the great stash hunt and so they were stashes um originally so they were yeah because the the internet wasn't the internet like we know the internet is uh you know we got to think back to those days uh before the internet that we knew existed before the internet that we know uh yeah uh on aol and and and click and hope that you can get connected me na na na na na oh yeah oh yeah oh oh oh oh man yeah you know how many people wouldn't if you're like what do you mean i can't get on the internet because somebody's on the phone they're like look at one point time phones used to be tied to the wall with a cord you know whoa these these things these things used to be just a pipe dream oh yeah now and so yeah

1:26:17get off the phone i'm trying to get on to the internet on to aol aol aol you should say yeah deep do you got bail i mean that's how you find out guys that's how you wrap yeah um yet you know guys and this this makes me think of something too and i and i don't think we covered this so i got to mention this before we forget right if you go to a location and you go to geocaching.com and you find a cache at that location and you don't see it in geocaching.com does that mean it's not listed in another geocaching service no because Garmin at one point in time had an open caching.com and Garmin at one point in time back in the day trying to compete against geocaching.com for this and so you used to be able to list your geocaches on both open caching.com and geocaching.com and i'll open caching.us

1:27:25all right there you go so yeah whoa so somebody has an account too for open caching. I have an account I have an account there too and so the other side to that is like Gary mentioned like you may come across and run across a letterbox like a true legit letterbox and i didn't realize this until i started looking into one that i had found out in a while is that there are there were something like three different letterboxing websites that you could get them listed on um yeah and whatnot so it's uh it's interesting when you come across a container with people's stamps and signatures in a book and you're like uh you know this so yeah yeah and this is one Atlas question and um even uh letterboxing.org on here as well too

1:28:27and i know c3 um mentions on here too uh the uh tera cache one time work. I can't remember tera caching is still still active or not um but i know i just want to mention this because sometimes we may go find a container and it's not listed on geocaching.com and i think that was a great point that you brought up Gary you know in regards to letterbox is sometimes you may want to think do you want to remove that um where i know for me kind of thought process on that one is if i see something that says geocaching.com and then i see a gc code and then i know yes i'm pretty confident at that point then if i go and check the archives status. Definitely but if you find a container that looks like a cache and you and you're like there's not a cache here it may not be an archive cache it may be letterboxing or something else so do your research check it before you swipe it. Absolutely.

1:29:33Oh man i just took a letterbox. All right final thoughts i guess tonight um i'll be quick and i'll let you guys go and that is that i truly think that a it'll be fun to search for some of these um you could also mix in a cito kind of situation where you can people out there you do some some good you know we're clean up clean up the game board as we always say for citos so bring some trash bags and and do some cleanup when you're going out to some of these but also you know do some do some serious searching and you might find even if it's not an ape cache or something but if you you might find a container and you never know if it's a it's a cache you know that was archived you know reuse recycle there you go. Yeah and i'd say um on here just a few comments is just

1:30:44um you know that was really cool for for Charles to show the um the web comparing project GC if you haven't checked that out check that out you know because i mean you can find so many cool locations for caches that'll help you find like archive caches and i know Charles i really appreciate your point too because where i thought you know find a cool location that way but like you said if you find a location that is problematic reading through old logs yeah that can help out a ton because i don't know about you guys but it is such a heartbreaker when you put in so much time into a cache and then you put it out there and it gets muggled so if you can do that homework for you that's pretty cool and um and yeah c3 on here yeah yeah thinks he's almost ready for the new next thing a lidar caching yeah my friend that would be pretty cool for sure ready that would be pretty cool for sure but yeah but i'll toss it to Charles for his thoughts all right so i know it was asked earlier

1:31:45in the chat room and i didn't have an answer for it but um mission nine tunnel of light was published July 18th 2001 it was archived in June of 2011 and then it was discovered in October of 2016 and then reinstated in April of 2017 so it had gone from October of 2016 to April of 2017 until it got um republished and i know at some point gram speak put a a thing out that said hey what would you like to see done with this historic cache and they gave you several options on the website so uh i'll just say that archived caching is a thing um and especially if you know that there are some good caches somewhere um use the map compare tool use old bookmark lists um use um you know uh

1:32:48you know a good google search um you know and uh and get out there and try and find some of this especially if you know that it got archived under i don't want to say questionable reasons right because somebody passing away is a perfectly legitimate reason but we also know that that cachard didn't go out there and pick up their cache container either right and so if you've got some of this stuff um you know hey maybe um you know you get together with some of your local caches and say hey uh i want to you know attempt to do a legitimate search for this you know is anybody willing and then y'all make a date uh to go out and go caching as a group to look for some of these i know that that's something that my local caches and i have talked about for some of these um because his caches go all the way back to like 2006 and like and he didn't he didn't hold he kept a couple

1:33:52very few i think he's got less than 20 published caches now um his um you know his um the one on his front porch is still there he had a virtual reward that's still out um and whatnot but he's got a couple of really old 2005 2006 caches that are still around but everything else is gone and so you know if you're looking to fill in some jazzer squares or something like that and this may not be a bad way to do it especially if you got some that are you know you're struggling to find a cache that that meets those requirements so give archived caching give the you know the um you know the lost caches project um a little light you know maybe bring it up in a at a event in your local area and see if other local caches would like some of that and jump on it and see if you can find some old archived caches absolutely if you do that uh let us know uh

1:34:57send us email send us all your information about your lost caches project at geocache talk at gmail.com and we'll uh mention it in a future show and um do we got anything where we got coming up John yeah good question guys I think there's a Tuesday show coming up right yeah I think that Tom brother min 7 8 3 8 guys involved in that so it's probably going to be sketchy at best yeah oh lord off the fly off the handle and by sketchy you mean really great with puzzles that's right absolutely yeah um yeah so no our uh puzzle talk show is on Tuesday and so if you are a fan of puzzles uh then come on over we're going to be doing a how to solve a visionary cipher visionary ciphers are um we're really some of the harder ones until some of these tools came

1:36:04around but uh Tom has dug into some of the history of it and found out where these visionary ciphers came from has some history dating back to the mid 1500s and so come in and listen to uh professor electric water boy and uh give a give a history lesson on visionary ciphers as we go through the process to show y'all uh how to solve them and uh then by you knowing how to solve them you'll also know how to create them and uh but there are tools out there for all of that and we'll see y'all on Tuesday for that perfect all right perfect well thanks guys was a great show and uh we'll uh be ready for the next one uh next Sunday so good night everybody okay good night everybody you

1:37:10may your fines be many and your DNFs be through mid the terrain and difficulty both be less than two you and whatever it is you're looking for may it find its way to you will you meet again folks we hope you've enjoyed the show tonight please email us your comment at jocashtalkatgmail.com don't forget to follow us on twitter, instagram and facebook the show can be found on apple podcasts stitcher radio public or spotify as well as at the jocashtalk website don't forget to click that subscribe button below and ring that bell notification so that you can see and hear the show on a weekly basis and tell your friends about the show get them involved with us in the chat room and until next week don't just talk about jocashing go jocashing