Why do we get the ‘ick’?

0:00Monk Reef, on News Talk. So you're going out with someone, and it's all going fine, but then they do something. It could be small, a gesture, or a word, or an item of clothing, and suddenly you get the intense egg. It's all over then. What's wrong with them? Or you? The sex therapist Emily Power Smith joins us to explain afternoon, Emily. Good afternoon. Nice to talk to you. Is this some sort of evolutionary adaptation that we know this is the wrong person? Is TikTok an evolutionary adaptation? I mean, I know. It isn't that. I think it isn't evolutionary because, yes, there are certain things that we might be attracted to that would be based from that. In other words, who makes a good mate, who's going to be a good mate? But they're more usually physical characteristics and strength, and that kind of thing, as opposed to behaviors like or wearing the wrong socks. That is not going to tell you that the person

1:04you mate with is going to give you good babies. That wasn't even around. That didn't even count. People didn't even wear socks when we came up with the idea of choosing a good mate, so that we have good children. And as the article that we're referring to speaks about, that doesn't work for so many people who are dating, people who are in same-sex relationships, people who aren't looking to have children. Men, it's more that is a very narrow reason that a person might choose their partner, unless and less relevant as time goes on. Okay, so do you suspect this is more socially informed? People getting it. I think it's socially uninformed. I get a bit of a B in my barnet I have to say about people who have no education, no life experience, and probably very little actual confidence themselves, preaching to other people about how the world works and how relationships work.

2:08That gets on my nerves, I have to say, and that's what this is to me. Yeah, and because it's usually depicted as suddenly and they're completely surprised by this, they get an intense feeling of disgust for a person. I mean, yeah, listen, we all have our things, right? And I think there's conditioning, what we're brought up with, what are table manners, what are, how does a person dress? All those things are, you know, bet into us, maybe not literally anymore, about what a person should be like and what's good and what's acceptable. And that's fine, but to get an actual feeling of disgust, I think the word is probably misused. I think that's a very different thing. Disgust is very different to going, oh, I don't like that. But we use very dramatic language more and more particularly on, you know, when we're trying to get clicks or we're trying to get followers, we want to be dramatic. I'm not, I shouldn't say

3:09because I have no interest in any of this myself. You know, I think it's more about that than anything real. Yeah. It's okay to not like somebody's socks or it's okay that you saw your your person pick their nose and we all do it. We try not to be caught, hopefully. You know, something, it's okay that somebody might have a table manner that really isn't your, your thing. Is that a reason to kick them to the curb? I think in this day and age, you're going to end up alone if you do that because it's just, we're also varied these days. And who wants to stick to those rules that you have to be a certain way in order to be engaged as a good or bad person? I think it's, it's coming from patriarchy, it's coming from the olden days when it was all about class. And I think it's, it's not a good way to judge whether a person is worth being with or not. Yeah. I guess I would imagine also it changes from decade to decade in the sense that, you know, you might start dating somebody and then you realize that they smoke and that gives you the egg. But if it had been 50 years ago, that wouldn't have

4:13given you the egg because that was completely normal. Yeah, there's that. Yeah. Yeah. Now we are more inclined, some of us are more inclined to notice an alcoholic and decide they don't to date them. Whereas when I was growing up, I mean, who, what, you know, we'd very different language about it, very different understanding. So there's definitely that. But again, using the word disgust, I think, is it, it makes it really dramatic. It polarizes people. There's no need for it. You can just have your own tastes and you can be led by them or you can choose to soften them or let go of some of them because you're with a really good person who just won't close their mouth when they chew. Yeah. Who knows? You know, if they're really good in every other way, you make it personal choices to whether that's something you can live with. I mean, what I'm getting for you, Emily, is that this is kind of a symptom of the age we live in. Wherever everyone's a bit too judgy and everyone's a bit too perfectionist in other people, but not in themselves, of course. You know, it keeps me so busy perfectionism is one of the most

5:18toxic things because if you're looking to the at your person for their perfection, A, you are not looking at yourself to see where you could improve and B, you are setting everyone up to fail because nobody is perfect and perfection is completely subjective. So your perfect could be my nightmare. Who's right? So these people got, you know, on TikTok going on, you know, profitising about and they know what's right and what's wrong and what's disgusting and why you should have it in a way, they don't know anything because you can't say that kind of thing about anyone else. It is so subjective. Yeah. Is it in your experience, is this tend to be a female thing or a male thing or does, can anyone experience this? Anyone can experience it. I have met all genders and all orientations, people from all of genders and all orientations who have had issues with things that others might consider to be quite small things but are really, really big for them.

6:22And then you might need to look if they're willing, you might need to look at what it is, why they would do that, why they would make those judgments and cut people out of their lives. And that's the interesting work. But this stuff of just, you know, it's okay to do this and, you know, it's, yeah, he's disgusting and then it's, it's, it's, it's based in nonsense. It's just nonsense. It's just a waste. Wouldn't we be better off spending time talking about how to communicate well, how to be authentic, how to really be honourable and to feel proud of ourselves in how we conduct our relationships rather than this toxic attack on people for the most stupid, shallow, unimportant things? I may be feeling quite passionate about it. You are. You are. Well, actually, also, I mean, there, I mean, someone's just texting to say, preach, which I seem to mean, they're agreeing with you. Is it also kind of a function of living in an age when someone's

7:23opinion is deemed to be equal to a fact? Oh, this is new, this is coming into my therapy room now. I'd say in the last, only in the last year or so, where I have had, I have been a position to, to show people really substantial research on a topic. Let's say the importance of communication for, for, to have, you know, how important communication is if you want to have great sex. And I will have somebody in front of me go, yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear you, but I think that if they loved me enough, they should just know. So I'd like to work from there, please. Yeah. And I'm just looking at them going, I actually don't know what to do with that. Absolute nonsense. That's numpty talk. I mean, yes, opinions are useful, but they're really only useful if they are based in some kind of, of, of knowledge or experience or research. Otherwise, they can be really wrong

8:27and really damaging. And because everyone is a platform now and everybody can spout their opinions and get loads of followers and whatever it is on TikTok and in, and social media, they are somehow we are now believing that their opinions are as important as professional opinions. And it's just not the case. It isn't Emily. Yeah, you're a rocket sense. Thanks, Malia, for talking to us today. That was the clinical sexologist Emily Power Smith there. One Texas says the, the, the Ick works the other way around to the start of a relationship when you're mad about the person and don't see a million annoying things looking back. You can't see how you missed it. Indeed, but then to my mind, that's kind of the more normal way of things rather than or so judgy at the start nowadays. It's another Texas says it's just a continuum of thought where people end up at a conclusion after weeks or years of a continuum. They can understand their own thoughts. I agree

9:27entirely with your guest. Just thoughtfully or don't think at all. Think thoughtfully or don't think at all. Just switch off if you're not tracking and owning your thoughts. Monk Reef weekdays at two on News Talk. Conversation that counts.