The Traitors: New Blood Recap | Episodes 3 & 4

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1:05At QVC, fall shopping is more than just checking out. It's discovering the brands you love across beauty, fashion, home and culinary, all in one place. Whether you're getting ready for crisp mornings, cozy nights or everyday moments, QVC has what you need for the season ahead, with brands like Laura Geller, Philosophy, Ninja and so many more. Shop now at QVC.com. This specialist, Phil and Will, are back and today we are recapping episodes number three and four of the traders' new blood. We are two weeks into this show, four hours into this show of all newbies, all civilians. We had a decision made on the accomplice. We had Jay playing chaotic faithfulness. We had a roundtable. We had a couple challenges. We had some tweaks to these challenges, which I think are definitely going to be worth discussing.

2:05Overall, we have a lot and this is our fix because next week I found out, well, it's actually the world or the wild card of the playoffs that is keeping the traders from airing on NBC next week. Because I guess NBC got the rights to the wild card round of the playoffs. So they are airing every wild card series is NBC not TBS as it's been in the past couple of years. So that's why we're not getting traders. So NBC was involved with baseball whatsoever. I think this is the first time ever. Interesting. Yeah, I still don't think Thursday nights a good night. Just don't go against Thursday night football or any sports for that matter. Just because it airs Thursdays on peacock doesn't mean you had to use Thursday, especially with a fall release literally coming out like what was at the second Thursday night football game last week. Yeah. Yeah, I just don't think that was necessary.

3:05Yeah, and you're working on that. So you literally can't watch any of the Thursday night football games with me. I was like, yeah, man, I got to be watching the traders and podcasting like bummer. Next week, the Browns play. That's your chance. They got a win. But yeah, so we have a lot to dive into here Thursday night. I grew to you. It's a little interesting of a choice. We'll get into kind of like that with the fall schedule and how we feel that that's going. But overall, the accomplice was the big storyline coming into this right last week. We are left on the note of Xavier and Katie and you'll never believe this. They both found the things they both found what they needed to and you'll never believe this will. And so Xavier was sitting there when Katie grabbed hers. That was the funniest part of this whole thing to me is that he was sitting there. So there was actually zero drama for Xavier other than were they going to pick her him or were they going to pick her.

4:07And I think kind of what we said last week. It feels like they were setting up Xavier to go home. They did not want him in the game anymore. And so they got rid of who they thought would be a really good faithful and kept Katie around as a trader. That's what it felt like the whole stick was with this. And it is kind of funny because we had the scene of Katie fumbling the book and she had put it behind her shirt and maybe tucking it into her pants. And then who Shane still have a lot from Shane, but Shane was walking in and we see her kind of putting it back. And I'm like, wow, okay, so there could be something here. Maybe there's some suspicion on her in the scene we get where they flash back. You're right. It's like wait, Xavier is in the room. Like I don't remember that ever happening. And then I thought the reveal was a little bit lackluster aware. Okay, they take off the mask that they show. Okay, it's Tamika and it's Joe. And I think that is very fun for the accomplices to finally see who the traders are who has recruited them who has put them up to this task.

5:12Tamika and Joe go have a little private conversation away from them up on the stairs. I think that was all fine. But at that point, and I know you don't like the breakfast, but if we're going to do the breakfast, why is we'll have stakes to it because we didn't have any surprise or stakes going in to breakfast. And so I think what you do is you cut. And then you just go to breakfast and then when you know it's going to be Katie or Xavier. And when Xavier doesn't come in, you can then flash back and they can have him read them reading Xavier. You've been murdered. It's like, I don't know. I felt like we could have like lingered on that most a little bit more. We watched a whole lot of nothing for five minutes there. Like you're 100% right. I'm not huge into the breakfast, but especially here in this moment, we already knew who is dead. So we're just right. That's what I mean. And like we're just watching over people. The breakfast feels repetitive and then knocking on the door. It's like, okay, we get it. And they do ham it up and they have the reaction shots.

6:13And people turning around and it's very like, okay, this is part of the process. But I've always been a defender of it because we are living in some sort of suspense that we don't know who got murdered the night before. And that who does walk through that door should be somewhat of a surprise to us and reveal information to us about what happened the night before. And here it's just like, what do we do it? Yeah. Yeah, because they tell them right off the bat. Now do you think they made the right decision? I personally have no idea because I have so many questions about the decisions that came after this. But I'm curious like, because we watched two episodes. So we now know that they also murder Logan, who was throwing Katie's name around, which seems insanely sloppy. But we'll get into that before without knowing that as you're watching this live, do they make the right decision on Katie being the choice over Xavier. I don't think it's hard to say right or wrong decision because I think the decision was already made. I'm fairly confident that what happened is what you would said earlier already on this podcast.

7:14We talked a lot about last week and it gives the Donna Kelsey secret trader vibe of the short list and essentially gaming the mechanic and saying, okay. We're going to put two people and have them fight head to head in audition. But there really never was an audition. It's like, okay, we're get to pick one person to murder and one person to recruit. And I think that part's probably fine. I'm not thrilled with like the total result of the accomplice because it does feel like Katie is just, she just has an uphill battle, compared to the other two that started as traders. I'm going to make it really sit here and argue that it's unfair for Xavier because they could have just like murdered Xavier. Yeah, he could have died anyway. But that's kind of what would happen. But I guess, yeah, I mean, from the start, it was we want Katie because she was younger. She has a different click. She has different relationships. We'll have access to more information. That all sounds very wise. And then Xavier, it felt like we never really got a clean reason. And that's why we thought, okay, Xavier is probably going to get murdered here.

8:18And that's exactly what happened. He had a very similar demeanor in vibe to Kim, who was previously murdered in their first, as their first victim. So not surprised at all. And I think, yeah, that makes sense. I think Katie does make sense as an addition for them. Yeah, I think Katie does make sense as the decision. I know we're a math. You see here saying doesn't seem to do the right choice. Katie is seemingly getting a lot of heat. Xavier, okay. So we had talked about this last week. Was this the right, like, what would you have done in this situation? I like Xavier's move here of essentially saying to them, if you pick me, I'm safe. And I'll work with you guys. But if you pick Katie, I've already put her name out there to other people. And I know that that was kind of uses the reason air quotes, why they ultimately decide to get rid of him. That was kind of like the only thing we saw from Tameca and from Joe, even though like we said we already think it was determined. But I think that was a good game move from Xavier because you're essentially saying to them, do you want to have this third trader stay a trader?

9:19Because I'm putting her name out there. And if I'm not showing up tomorrow, people are immediately going to be looking at her saying, wait a second. She is endangered. So it's kind of like you're dropping off a bomb on the way out, right? You're like, I want to die anyway. I was going to drop this grenade. And he's laid the groundwork and it's stuck and that all led to this ending. And I know there's so much that happened in the middle, but it goes so hand in hand. It leads to this ending of Joan Tameca throwing murdering Logan when Logan has so blatantly been talking about Katie. And they know that because it came up at the roundtable. And so part of me is almost wondering, did they want to get Xavier out of there because Xavier was dangerous and they also were okay with getting rid of Katie here because Katie nobody will ever suspect that the two of them were working with Katie. Yeah, I think this move from Xavier was quite bad actually. It seemed unnecessary, especially, I mean, they gave the reason of all he's already doing some trader on trader stuff, which that's not fair because you aren't having any idea.

10:29Because you are in a head to head battle. One of you is becoming a trader. One of you is getting murdered. So I appreciate the competitiveness of Xavier and that he even put Katie's name out. I don't even even know if that was necessarily a mistake. But I think showing up there and saying already put Katie's name out and revealing how hard that he's playing. I just think you're going to rub the traders the wrong way in that situation. If I'm Joe and Tamika and even if I'm not thinking it's trader on trader crime, I'm getting okay, this guy is a serious gamer and that he is competitive and that he will do anything to stay in anything to win. And if I'm up there in the turret with him and I get heat on my name, you know, weeks down the line episodes down the line. And he's going to throw me under the bus. He's going to do whatever it takes to win. And when you prove that level of gameplay, I just think you don't need to show your cards. And look, I'm sitting here saying I think Xavier was screwed anyway. I think he's drawing that at this point. I don't know if there was a correct move that, you know, give us your final speeches. It's almost like final tribal council.

11:35Okay, Heather, you give us your final speech or it wasn't. Heather make final three. I was forget. So you make your final speech in Rachel, you make your final speech or, you know, whatever, it's you go in often to final tribal council knowing who's going to win. I think here there's nothing Xavier was going to say that was ever going to change Tamika and Joe's mind. I guess if I'm him, I'm thinking, what do they want me for? Why am I in this position? If it's not to simply just be murdered. It's probably that you have a same way of thinking or a little bit older. You have to similar energy vibes, you're observant and maybe lean into that instead of coming up and like already went after Katie, she's screwed. And also the point you were just making about the whole Logan and we'll get into that. If Xavier's sitting there. So I keep saying Xavier, but it is Xavier. I want to say they were pronouncing the X. I know normally you don't pronounce the X. If anybody's like Phil, why are you saying this? It's because they would call an X for sure. So maybe I'll just call them X and that makes it easier for everybody. But X saying already put heat on Katie. So not only is it what I just mentioned about, okay, maybe you're playing a little aggressively. You're showing that you're competitive and that you have this drive to win do whatever it takes blah, blah, blah.

12:50But it also says, okay, if we take on Katie, that's trader blood that we could offer to the faithful and then we can potentially recruit again with even more information. And we've heard from the start, we heard when they got picked as the two initial traders and they go into turret and Alan comes in and says you're going to recruit two people as a complicit and one will be your trader. One will get added to the squad. They both looked at each other. They said, but it's us two to the end, right? Like we're the we're the two out of three. I think that's the part that I mainly don't like about this twist is that you're giving the initial two traders such a leg up in all of this that they get to form this team. They get to form this a majority. Let alone that they're both from the same part of the country that they're both similar in age. Like this bit they feel like a perfect team. Like they're a partnership and somebody's going to be third willing here. Whether it was Xavier. Whether it was Katie, it almost feels like they don't have a fair crack at it. Yeah, I do understand where you're coming from with all that. I mean, obviously we have seen this happen in the traders before not with the accomplice, but we've seen two traders start and they turn around and they choose a third one to join them and that's blah, blah, blah. That's how it goes.

14:02In this situation, though, I do think the accomplice was overpowered because as Matt, you see us saying here, it's not trader on trader. It's a accomplice on a compost and Ben Rice's king had said what you said, you did that and gave the traders the easiest sacrifice when the faithful get hungry for tradeable. But my thing is, you're giving the traders too much power here because they can actually set up two people for failure. And so you can say you think the move from Xavier was bad. If they were choosing to already take him, I don't think that this move would have changed their mind. I think that it was a move that was essentially saying, hey, like I'm willing to play ball with you guys. I'm willing to throw whatever name you need. I don't think that they would have said, oh, God, this guy's going after traders. We got to get rid of him. I think it already been predetermined. So I don't think this was a good or bad move. But I think the twist itself is so problematic because if you are Joe and Tamika, you just got really two people out that you want and you get the easy access to getting rid of as you and Ben Rice's king over here have said to getting rid of a trader when people are hungry for trade or blood.

15:08Like you're making it almost too easy for the two starting traders, even if they weren't from the same part of the country, even if they didn't have the same lower personalities, like you're all I think this accomplice twist gives too much power to the traders. And then when you turn around and you see throughout the challenges tonight, I will get into this a little bit more, but something along the lines of, hey, something happened in plain sight yesterday. Okay. But it's not that's not so powerful of information. That these people are going to be able to do a lot with it. Whereas this accomplice thing, you're allowing the traders to take more power. And right now, based on especially a rob rouse played it last season, I don't think that we're at a moment where the traders need more power. The traders are earning a situation where one of the traders gets eliminated. You're probably going to recruit another one. It's going to keep going and going and going and going and going and going. So I do feel like the accomplice twist itself is probably one of my least favorite now that I've seen it play out that the traders has done.

16:12Yeah. And I think you bring up some good points there. Like don't regardless of whether they're from the same part of the country and the same age. But I think it's just a little sprinkling of everything. This is all happening at once. So we do have two traders that are clearly going to get along think the same way, have the same vibe, same generation, all that. Plus they get to start just them to and they get to set up two people to fail and they get to murder Kim. And when we get to the information and the challenge, it's not about Joe or Tamika. It's about Katie. That's it's about something that happened in plain sight. And then even Sherry at the round table is saying, well, maybe Xavier was head to head with whoever became trader. And that's why Xavier got murdered because the information and this really did not come up in a lot of the discussion. Two people were up to be traders. They were head to head competing. It does make it seem like two people were aware of this happening. If they were competing for something, you probably know about it.

17:13And so either the other competitor was either or Xavier, sorry, or it's somebody still in the game. And it's like, fast up who are you? You're no longer a trader, but you are competing to be a trader. So yeah, it put all the heat on to Katie and the whole Xavier situation. And so what I'm going to do is I'm going to do what I'm going to do, which again is tied to Katie because Katie and Xavier knew about each other. And I do think this might be the biggest flaw with the twist. And if they are going to do it again, maybe this is a repair to it. And I hate to say this because part of the thought I thought when we watched it take, you know, take place with the death warrant. And even the whole thing of them, you know, and came in a coffin down the river, whatever, like them revealing the mask and looking at each other and being like, oh my gosh, it's you. And then them being head to head and knowing who each other were, like that was fun. There was some suspense. There was some drama. We're kind of in on the secret. We're seeing these two people who know each other try to navigate and do this task and play inside.

18:16That was part of my praise for last week, but I think mechanically it just doesn't work because now you have two people going at each other and whoever now doesn't survive. It's like, oh, well, that player mentioned Xavier mentioned Katie. Yeah. So it's like, and then they draw more attention to it at the challenge. And that's where it felt like, okay, we're really giving Joe and Tamika, like fully free ride here. Like if they were going to give out trader information during a challenge and Phil, I don't know, have we seen this before I know, I feel like in some that the chess match with Carolyn, I remember that was that was the traders answering questions or asking questions. This was fully from the show from production saying here is information about the traders. I don't know if we've seen this, but why did it have to be about Katie? Well, and that's that's what I was going to say. Like I actually like the idea of them saying, hey, we're going to give information. Like you can give up money, but you're going to get information about the traders.

19:18But we didn't get information that was like one of them is from the Northeast. We got we are like, you know, and that would be too revealing you can't do that because then it's just going to be okay, let's vote out everybody from the Northeast. Like you said, to have it be this happened in plain sight, the thing that happened in plain sight, like if you think back to the first time we ever had a murder in plain sight, it was par with the goblet, right? And she's walking around and she gives it to whoever in the person drinks it said, I can sue who drinks it. No, I can sue. I can sue. So I can sue drinks it. Parv is making that happen. The two people who were recruited in this instance were the only ones doing anything like Joe and Tamika didn't have to get their hands dirty in any way, shape or form. So like you're saying this, this wasn't something that was like, hey, one of the traders was holding a yellow book last night. And it's like, oh, shit, who was holding the yellow book? And maybe everybody was holding a yellow book. Maybe Tamika and Joe had to slip the paper in and then put it in and then Katie comes out and has to grab it out of the yellow book.

20:21But this was something that literally only had to do with Katie and with Xavier and Xavier's gone. So if you are able to figure out the the thing that happened in plain sight, which Arissa was doing great cover for Miss Katie here and we'll get into that. But the fact that this this is what it is, there's no way that this will ever in any situation at all ever lead the players to one of the two original traders because they didn't actually do anything at this whole involvement of something happening in plain sight. They didn't do anything. So it's never going to lead them in that direction. That is the flaw here. It can literally only lead to the new trader who didn't even have to interact with the other two. Yeah, I think this is a flaw, a different flaw than the accomplice flaw. I think the accomplice twist can potentially work. But here, yeah, if you're going to reveal information about the traders, you have to, I don't know, it's either got to be about all of them or about the people who didn't have any heat on them or didn't have to do anything.

21:26The past few nights, whereas Katie went through the absolute ringer and then she gets hit with, wow, we're going to reveal information about her after what she just went through. I think the accomplice thing can work and maybe it is as simple as not revealing the accomplices to each other. And that could be kind of fun. And maybe the game is more of a cat and mouse game that you have to catch the other accomplice doing something before they can do it. And you're trying to do the same thing. I don't know. There's probably some fun game where Phil, if you want to call us, I'm in a, I'm in a conference, but we don't know who each other are. And I'm like, I have to do something in the castle, but I know another person is looking out for me. I don't know who it is. I think there's something very fun there. And then you don't have this really easy out of Xavier just being like, I think Katie is acting a little bit funny. And then it just puts, it just puts someone's name out there. And then you know what of them is going. And I know Katie didn't do it to Xavier. And I know not every accomplice twist would work out in this very fashion.

22:29But that's really where this thing falls apart is that now you know somebody who is a potential trader and they're, I don't know, it could backfire like if they didn't pick Xavier. And then Katie gets murdered. And then you get the whole reveal about the head to head thing. Then Xavier is probably screwed here. Well, and I love where your mind's out on this because I always think about with the minion if you're playing werewolf like we did a whole podcast a while ago, we talked about what roles we think they should bring in. And there isn't a compass, right, and where will the minion is the minion is the accomplice. Okay, I couldn't remember if that was if there was another role. So the minion is essentially the accomplice. The minion wins if he gets targeted instead of one of the werewolves, right. And so part of me wonders and it's I love where your mind was going with this of like making it's like its own version of a game rather than them picking between Xavier and Katie. Like you're saying these two people have to figure out who the other recruited accomplice is. And the first one to figure it out wins. And there's different tasks that these two have to complete. And as they're trying to complete them.

23:38The traders are watching this happen, but the traders don't actually have to say in which ones become a trader. Instead it's hey, Alan every night or you know at some point goes Xavier. Have you figured out who the other accomplice is. I think it's Christie incorrect or something like that. And baby maybe it's something where Alan can't say whether you're correct or incorrect because then that's giving away too much information. Maybe that is helping lead towards a trader or not. But at the end of the day you're going to be out of the game no matter what. If you're not the first one to figure it out. And if you are the first one to figure it out, you're going to join the traders anyway. So you're going to know who's faithful and whose traders anyway. So you're not actually giving them too much information here. And they're fighting to become a trader. And maybe they all have like two episodes or something to figure it out. But you make it more of a spiver spy situation rather than a. Oh, like we both did this super simple task. We the other guys had to act and react like, whoa, how'd you do that? And then it's like, yeah, we did it. It was super easy. And now they're just making a decision anyway.

24:45And then the person who does survive is just getting thrown under the bus like it feels it feels half-hearted. And we talked a lot about this like the secret trader going on a Kelsey other elements of the game. This just feels half-assed. I don't know if it's gone out. It's the better way. It's not happening. It's half gone out. I think I think a lot of these ideas are pretty fun and good. Have a lot of merit. Like I just said, I really enjoyed how Xavier and Katie knew who each other were and they did have these weird glances and looks and they're competing and there was some fun to that. And I think if you're doing this for the first time, you can sell yourself on, yeah, they should know who each other are. And this is how it should work. The original traders should nominate two people and then you see it play out once and you go, oh my gosh, the traders just totally gave this. It's like Donna Kelsey. Wow. That short list idea that did not work whatsoever because Donna Kelsey gained it. And I think maybe they're not thinking. They're thinking of, oh, this would be fun. This would be cool if it worked out this certain way.

25:49And not thinking, okay, if you're playing the game optimally, if you are logically thinking through the decisions at hand, what you have an opportunity to accomplish, if you're going to meet in the situation, it's not picked two people who you would like as traders and actually have them compete and actually make a tough decision. Recruit one murder the other. That's the way you would play it rationally. And maybe they haven't, they didn't arrive at that conclusion. We have a comment here from Matthew C. This is talking about our idea of this kind of spy or spy game and they have to compete head to head and they don't know who each other are. I would force them to pick two people they actually want as fellow traders. I think that's a very good point why I'm like this idea even more fill. If you're nominating two people and you're not made, if you don't get to make the next decision that the two people who you nominate, it's in their hands solely and you don't just get to go, oh, after watching you guys, I'm going to pick you. You they have no choice. It's whoever achieves the goal accomplishes the task, whatever they need to do in plain sight that we can cook up. That's much more fun and it's much more in the players hands.

26:59And even if it is where they know each other still, they still know that it's the two of them. And maybe it is a head to head thing of like first one to get X Y or Z. That could be that it definitely could be I think the problem with the knowing who the other person is is that you do what Xavier did and then especially if they're going to put it the info on a challenge again that's kind of adding to this problem with how this accomplishes played out. And also we are acting under the impression as if we think Katie is cooked at this round table that we did not get to tonight. I know we haven't really talked about the first round table or the round table that we ended the episode in the middle of. But it seems like the writing on the wall that Katie is going to get banished here and I'm not sure what she can do to get out of it. Are you ready for your paycheck date to become the most irrelevant date in your life. Let me tell you about earning. Ernan is a non-bang finance app 5 million people and growing the concept is almost annoyingly simple. You earn money you access it up to $150 per day of what you've already worked for up to $1,000 between paychecks tips are optional and standard transfers take one to two business days with no mandatory fees.

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32:02It's progress sign up and get 10% off at better help dot com that's better H.E. L.P. dot com. Oh you just want out fill. I'm out right now. Okay you're back. I was out before I cut before when you were talking and I but I feel like I'm moving with no audio coming out. So I might just be on a little bit of a glitch that my am I on a delay or am I actually can you actually see me at the time you're good you're back. Okay I feel like another thing that you know is is is happening right now with Katie going home in the way that this is set up and everything like that it still feels like again to me and Joe set her up more than anything because the Logan decision is like I mean that's got to be one of the stupidest decisions traders have ever made in the history of the show or trade or or a trade or like they the fact that they said we're going to let the tiny trader do this. Okay he's like okay Logan it's like have you watched the show do you have any idea how this works I understand that maybe it would seem too obvious but you already have heat on you from Xavier and now this it's like getting ready to Xavier and Logan Logan who I actually was enjoying quite a bit and I thought was pretty solid game yeah I thought he was playing a really solid game to go and get rid of like to get rid of Logan after that it's not going to be a lot of fun.

33:26What are you like what are you thinking how do you think that's going to benefit you if you get rid of Sherry you're perfectly setting setting up ABL right because ABL is running around saying Sherry did this or Sherry did that Sherry said three traders which Ben right of ABL is setting up Sherry yes this one saying so Ben yeah Ben Rice is King says can we cancel targeting people as traders for knowing how many traders are in the game like watch the show before coming on absolutely and curiating ABL picked up on Sherry saying hey I think like with whatever with three traders and then she said oh my god she said there's three traders so now if you're going you murder ABL ABL is out of the game and everybody's going to be looking at Sherry go almost she didn't talk at the round table and she's the and she just got rid of this person we're at least going to test the waters because there's no harm that's the other thing in this game if heat is being put on somebody if somebody is being set up maybe get rid of the person who's being set up anyway if they're not actually helping you all that much at the round table or in challenges because there's really no harm in getting them out of the game and I think that's what's about to happen to Katie right here and I think

34:26that's what it could happen to Sherry had they made the right decision of murdering ABL I couldn't believe ABL walked through the breakfast door I was floored yeah you enjoyed your suspense at breakfast I couldn't believe I'm sitting there and I'm like why do I have to wait for a commercial break we all know what's going to happen and then ABL walked through the door I thought ABL is completely toast I do want to push back on this Ben Rice comment here or Ben Rice's king comment throw it up like I think it's the way Sherry set it so confidently that there are three traders and I know you're saying you know watch the show come on but what in season three we started with four traders I think season one was three season two was two plus a recruitment then we went to four then we went back to three there could easily be four traders and so I don't think saying thinking oh I think there's at least three traders or of the brothers probably three Sherry says I all three traders can't be women and I think it's just the way she

35:33said it so matter of factly that I think Abby is right to be a little bit like huh why are you saying that for sure we have seen seasons of this show start with four traders yeah and it's almost like what you have to do is you have to look at them and say you have to you have to always make everybody feel like it's their idea this is what the best survivor players are good at this with the best players of these types of games are good at it's that whole thing of planting the seed right sit there and say Abby how many traders do you think there are probably two or three they can't all be women you're still getting your same point across but you're not the one who is saying how many traders you think there are you're asking I don't know how many traders there are it can be two can't all be women but they're not all women we have to stop voting women out yeah like it was just the way she said it with no doubt in her mind as if it's all hundred percent three traders yeah no I get that but you know and and so then it feels like they should be murdering Abby L it feels like this is a layup Sherry will then get banished at the next roundtable I personally feel like the reason they cut

36:36at the roundtable the way they did is because they didn't want to lose both of the accomplices on the same night I feel like that's what they didn't want to have happened so like great we'll cut it here Jay is on to something which we'll get the Jay's gameplay but Jay is on to something let's let's cut here because Katie's gonna end up going I feel like if it was going to be whoever the alternatives were I feel like they probably would have found a way to fit that in tonight especially with the two weeks I I agree and disagree I think Katie's toast that's where I agree where I disagree is I don't know if that's why we ended the episode where we did we had so much to get to in these four episodes and these are shorter episodes than when we get on peacock and honestly they're shorter by some like 30 minutes yeah no we're yeah we got a 42 minute episode some of those peacock episodes are an hour 10 so that's a huge difference and so to get two challenges a full round table we had this whole accomplished thing we had to open the show we had our train ride which I love the

37:39train right by the way that's pretty good I think it's okay to we're ending in the middle of the round table I don't know why that works going back to what that's Fred and George from Harry Potter that's who the two guys are right yes they did look familiar that occurred to me it's something yeah that's poor Ferguson I know he's been shamed for the the original Weasley's Rachel sat down and watched it tonight she didn't watch first she goes why are Fred and George here yeah I did recognize them eventually but yeah I didn't mean to interrupt your thought but just because no I want to talk more about this Logan murder so I think there's more to it who are the other people on the table that they're talking about they talked about Abby who we thought was the smarter pick mm-hmm but I think we're thinking that's the smarter pick if you're Katie and then we had Mark and Mark is a total nobody that would be random that would just be let's confuse everyone no one would see it coming it's kind of a non-move but a non-move is often a good move because you're

38:42not drawing attention anywhere I think why maybe Abby doesn't go our two reasons one Katie mentions to Tamika that Abby throughout Tamika's name and so if I'm Tamika and I hear that my name's being tossed out by Abby and now this little new trader is coming in saying we should murder Abby I'm going a tiny trader let let mama and papa take care of this for you yeah and I think that was probably Tamika doing some convincing of saying because they both uh Joe and Tamika both did a very good job and this leads me to point number two which is I don't think they want Katie to be in this turret very long I think they are fully okay without offering traders blood we've said that a number of times already tonight but this really cemented that for me because when they're first talking about possible murder candidates Joe even responds to Katie's suggestion of Abby and

39:46says well the only downside is or yes Logan this one they're talking about Logan the only downside is you know he mentioned your name a couple times he brought at the round table and Tamika goes oh but it was so small like it didn't really land they really did brush it right on top of this in Joe it's almost a mess up from Joe if he really is in this with Tamika and this is their whole plan but but Joe says here's the only downside of murdering Logan as it might come back onto you and then when Logan does get murdered and we're at breakfast we flash back to the night before it we get the lower third the night before and then they agree it's Logan and uh and then you hear from Joe he goes there are no downsides to this at all Tamika goes oh this is that there's no downside to this at all in literally minutes earlier Joe had said explicitly here's the only downside it could come back on Katie and then by the end of the night they're saying this is the cleanest murder of

40:48all time it's it's like they totally persuaded her somehow and they even did they did a very good job of this because they said we left the turret with Joe going let's let the little new trader make the decision tonight yeah and clearly I don't think this was in her hands or they did just a magnificent job of concocting this I don't know somehow made her feel comfortable enough to murder Logan which is insane because it puts so much heat onto her now you said mama and papa now I have papa bear in my head from survivor south Pacific because now I'm just gonna see Joe as papa bear from fricking survivor south Pacific those thanks a lot for that but I I do agree with you I think that first of all as somebody who feels that the peacock episodes can run a little long especially as we get later in the season I am noticing the shortness of these episodes 42 minutes feels like a short amount of time to get so much in you have the breakfast you have the challenge you have the round table and you have the strategizing and you have the turret right that should be happening in every episode that's a lot of content to get to in 42 minutes that almost does feel too short

41:53so I do feel like some stuff is being left out of the story right now and maybe things that would have been left in if you're telling like a more thorough story like they do in the peacock version would have been left in maybe there would have been a confessional from Tamika saying she's a tiny trader but she's not my tiny trader I don't care about that I'm ready to get rid of her or Joe's saying I don't know where do I be standing right now even if it's not a lot I mean you can tell me how many confessionals we had of Danielle talking about one in the get rid of Carolyn like we will see confessionals about traders being okay with other traders going home and we could have had that in this moment I push back on that because I don't think the runtime is what determines those interview bites and confessional actually know this to be true as a reality there's no interview bites are confessionals in these episodes I feel like it's so quick we're barely hearing from anybody what I'm saying is if you if it's a big storyline the trader on trader battle when it happens is a

42:54major storyline in any season of the show that's the juiciest thing you got going as a traders producer if you're in poster if you're in the field you're interviewing on it if that's the main core storyline then that's what you will see and when and I'm not saying it's not going to happen this season I think it's already happening behind the scenes but you if that's a story you want to reveal you're revealing that in 42 minutes or you're revealing that in an hour and eight minutes like it doesn't you're not letting the runtime influence that part of your storytelling I think this is more akin to we're just talking about ghost island over on the patreon and it's always we all honestly one of the best parts of ghost island is the irony of Malolow burning their tribe flag because they can't want a challenge and then they finally win a challenge the other tribe goes and they vote up Bradley and then Naviti goes home and you later learn and I I knew this because I was out there but you later learned that dom through the challenge to get rid of Bradley

43:55and that it was not competitive and then bring the flag and then breaking the curse had nothing to do with it didn't actually really compete hard in win fair and square it was just a challenge throw but that story was not told that's not what the producers and storytellers wanted to convey to the audience the more compelling story was that the Malolow tried burned a flag and reversed a curse which was the slogan of the season and that was what they went with and I think that could be happening here and that you might have interview bites of Joe and Tamika saying they've here we're throwing you to the wolves Katie come on board but you're not sticking around for long and you are going to be trader blood we give to the faithful like that could be a bite from Joe but then you're killing all suspense and we don't know how long Katie survives and even if she does go out you know at the onset like the very first part of next episode you still want to be in doubt and that might not have been where they wanted to go with it so if it was a story they wanted to tell they are going to tell it that's all I'm I'm getting at and I think the thing we're missing

44:58the most comparing the peacock version and this new NBC version it seems almost as if we go challenge car ride very short bite of food round table the the things that are being cut we can't cut the turret we cannot cut breakfast of course because everybody loves breakfast or although I think breakfast is probably a spot we can really use to tighten up if we wanted to we got the mission you can't cut the mission you cannot cut the round table that is what makes traders the traders that's everyone's favorite segment so the time that gets cut is the strategizing before the round table and I honestly don't mind it because what I like about the round table is people are very forthright in saying what they actually believe because they want to investigate and eliminate a trader and work together and we're the faithful and we've criticized tribal council so much of being dishonest completely where people don't say what's on their mind people are just lying and putting on this show for Jeff in the audience and who cares and so I'm okay losing this like

46:01secret whispers in the corner and yes that's the strategy that's what we like to break down but I'm not totally like I'm okay with the pacing here I just my biggest concern is we got why we're getting why these people are going home but this I mean you have a massive cast so people are going to go fast right they're going to get out of here I just think about it like from the standpoint of survivor let's just compare this to survivor and then I'll get to the point of you know what's actually happening tonight survivor used to be tribe stuff reward challenge the reward and tribe stuff the immunity challenge build up the tribal tribal six segments the now survivor has decided we're not doing reward challenges so a lot of times it's you know whatever segment of talking at camp they go to every tribe then they'll bounce over and they'll go on some journey or some there be some advantage thing that's in play immunity challenge build up tribal it's more of five segments with the traders right now the way that it's set up the episode really would be

47:06starting if you think because obviously they knew that they were having back to back episodes here so they know what they can get away with but let's think about a normal episode of the traders sure what's the standard hour of this it's 42 minutes looking like it's breakfast conversation about everybody like well what's the strategizing what do you think happened here this doesn't make sense so that's two then it's the challenge then it's the post challenge build up then it's the round table then it's the post round table uh oh what do you think just happen who's gonna get murdered then it's murder it really is seven segments though like it is more it's no it's not five it's seven that the you can go round table to turret pretty quickly though that segment in between isn't always that choose but what i'm also saying though is if you think about the segments here like we're saying breakfast challenge round table turret there are four massive ones that they're not getting rid of and so you're getting rid of the three that are actually building the story whereas in survivor they got rid of the reward so now almost everything is

48:11telling the story with the exception of the immunity challenge traders really is built around set pieces and the four set pieces they have they can't get rid of and so right now i'm okay with it because i don't know these people that well right but i do feel like there's more reason to be getting rid of Logan a rissa she gave everybody gold by going and grabbing the hands of Victor and doing all that like even Victor just constantly being thrown under the bus it almost feels like too much what was the repercussions for Christie after the blowup that she had it doesn't feel like there were any like i feel like there's too much that is getting lost right now because it's set piece set piece set piece set piece and i know that the challenge had some stuff and we'll you know we i mean we're 42 minutes in we got to talk about the j stuff we got to talk about the decisions that were made when they went into the crypts we those are big moments but this episode also benefits from the fact that they knew they were getting two episodes so you could expand this a little bit and you could focus on the things you wanted to now next week when you have to do a 42

49:13minute episode will we are doing round table into turret into breakfast into challenge are we getting another round table and i know this isn't next week it's in two weeks but that's going to all happen in an hour because they no longer have two hours i do worry that once they get to the one hour portion of this we're gonna be losing people and going what just happened and i don't love that because i do feel like the pieces are there but there just might be too much going on and right now i feel like there's about six main characters whereas when you do have regular traders there's always people who get pushed to the side but i feel like you have more characters because they have so much more time to tell the stories of the opposition and everything like that who is the opposition i thought it was Logan Logan's now gone so to me it feels like we don't really have a good feel for the opposition it feels like this is the traders and that's really all we're hearing right now i think a lot of that is fair but i don't know i feel like i got a good grip and

50:18Logan has been the opposition but Logan went home Logan got murdered and that's a huge part of the story like that's a huge part of what is going to probably lead to Katie's banishment at the roundtable next week i think it's good that we had two hours and two hours early because we had that's when you have the most people we started with 21 people but Bill we're gonna start with a roundtable we're gonna lose Katie we're gonna lose Jay i think that's pretty much down to it maybe an outside chance at sherry but then we're down to 15 people and so i think by then by the time we're getting single 42 minute episodes we've really reduced our cast size and i think that helps a lot also just the irony of all this way we're talking no the whole streaming model has allowed shows to not have a strict like ending and starting point to episodes this is really something that netflix brought into the fold that we can end our episode on any cliffhanger when we think it's best when we think the runtime feels right and we don't have to go oh it's

51:20tribal council we vote somebody off we snuff their torch final words next time on boom well we're in we're out and we have this very you know rigid order of the segments of our show um you know the circle on netflix would always just do the craziest cliffhangers and it could be in the middle of a challenge it could be in the middle of just a react like in just a normal conversation um and that's just this streaming flavor that you get across all genres and here i mean peak or peacock with the normal traders really never use that tactic i mean very rarely maybe if we had a chalice or some special segment or murder we would maybe cliffhanger the middle but usually you end on round table turret round table turret and now it seems like the cable for the broadcast on a network is now using the more streaming model where that work cliffhanging in the middle of a round table for weeks is not which is not what you really that's not what you do on a network channel it's more

52:22of a streaming thing and obviously this is going on peacock the next day and i imagine the majority of people who do watch this in the future will be watching this on a streaming network it's still just i find it funny that the format of these shows are kind of flip lock i do i do find that funny as well all right let's let's talk about this challenge and let's talk about jay so that this isn't a two hour podcast so let's talk about the challenge first that i want to talk about um the first one that's the crypt one right okay so let's talk about this crypt challenge so this crypt challenged alan tells them there could be thirty thousand dollars the first people go in it's morgan and it's arissa i believe and they go in and there's just five thousand dollars there's nothing else although somebody does i think it's abby l calls out arissa and says hey it looks like you got something morgan doesn't get anything she comes back they get five thousand the next group goes in and they are presented this was who was the second group because the third one was ben and the second one was uh Clyde and Tamika so Clyde and Tamika go in and there's five thousand or there's

53:24ten thousand but the five thousand comes with one of them getting a shield as well and so Tamika and Clyde decide fine we'll take the shield and the five thousand and Tamika says Clyde you can have the shield so they go out and everybody's like wait a second we only have ten thousand there's only one crypt left what's going on and then the last one is ben and was it jay it was no michael michael michael i'm sorry so ben and michael go is it anything it is ben yeah it was ben and michael and it was five thousand dollars and you get information about the traders or it was fifteen thousand dollars so they come out they do the five thousand this is where we find out about the thing in plain sight so they come out the challenge ends everybody knows they got fifteen instead of thirty Tamika and Clyde do come clean that they did get a shield that and Tamika says Clyde has it and like plays like she kind of plays dumb here and i think it was smart of her to play dumb even if she might have oversolded it but Clyde ends up just being like fine i have it okay whatever

54:24that are you just going to keep recapping the whole thing i want i want to recap this last part because then it's that and then we get to the part where ben and michael both say hey we have information and this is what the information is because they hint at it at the challenge and they ultimately spill to everybody when they get to the round table and a little bit before i know that they were planting the seeds although we didn't really see that because again that's one of the segments they're cutting out what do you think about the way that these shook out is this the way you thought things would happen if you're creating this challenge is this how you think it would go and then what do you think about Clyde and Tamika and and Ben and michael's ultimate dissidents i thought this was one of the best traders challenges we've actually ever seen is it the most visual or fun or their explosions on a boat or is there crazy rigging and stuff no but all of this was very clever decision making and i like it much better than the second challenge because the second challenge well i will get to it but i think the decisions are kind of their less interesting and so here i love that you go in the first two go in and there's just money

55:27and it's only five thousand it really screws those people because you only got five thousand dollars there's only three crypts and there's thirty thousand dollars that's an average of ten thousand dollars per crypt and that you had no choice to make whatsoever it was just five thousand that doesn't sound like the traders and so i i like that it was this building up and you kind of screwed those people who went in and they had to defend themselves and honestly it might be why a rissa was banished and then we we go to what who is it at this time oh it's this is Clyde and this is Tamika yeah and this was another fun one it's like you can have the shield in five thousand or just ten thousand and i think more often than not you're taking the shield because basically if you're getting one shield you're getting two shields because you come out and you just don't say who has the shield and Tamika i here think got very lucky and i don't think anyone caught onto her but this could have gone the other way where it doesn't work in her favor

56:30because what we ended up seeing as she goes and Clyde got it i just want to be honest i want to play it on this game and then people go oh and Clyde is like oh i was gonna say anything because we'd both be protected then she's playing dumb i think she does a very good job of handling it after and playing it up and and again this worked out great for Tamika but the other side of this is and because i think this is what's actually happened i don't think this was pre planned by Tamika that i'm going to reveal that Clyde has the shield and then Clyde will say i wasn't going to say anything and it's gonna make me look like i don't know what i'm talking about and it will make me look like i'm not a gamey smart person and therefore i couldn't be a trader that was in a pre planned thing because what could have happened Bill is if Tamika's like oh yeah and Clyde has it whoa why if you're faithful you take every chance you get to not get murdered and not get managed that's how you're playing obviously you are playing to catch traders and be observant and keep your eye out but at the other day you're trying to stay alive you're it's more

57:31a game of survival when you're faithful and so for a faithful to just give up a free shot to the next round is such a red flag and if i had been out there i'd go oh my gosh that is trader behavior to just announce that Clyde has it out of playing an honest game and i don't think anyone picked up on it and again i think Tamika did a phenomenal job covering and i think she's doing honestly a phenomenal job as a trader but i do think this was quite a slip up and she just did not get caught she just didn't get caught yeah i mean i think that's a fair way to put it to i mean you know because the whole point is they even say when they're in there hey if one of us gets the shield we both get the shield they're never gonna they're never gonna murder either one of us now yeah so for her to be like a free plan thing for her to play dumb i don't think so at all yeah i think what do you think about madam or she doesn't need the shield she's like how can i be more honest and trustworthy i'm gonna say Clyde has it but your goal as a trader is to do anything a faithful would and a faithful would not have done what to me so now what about with Ben and Michael

58:36they ultimately give the information everybody they tell everybody everything and then you know it's easy because it's hey arissa was holding hands with victor and victor's the one that everybody's got their eyes on anyway victor can't get the heat off of him even though madeline went home and now they're saying oh look how quickly through under the bus it's like i mean what the hell is this guy supposed to do at this point so we have victor and arissa and michael and ben bring this up to them and it actually puts a little heat on michael where people are saying well michael you're so good you're this you're that leads to a really good moment between michael and joe i thought in the one room i did think that that was like one of the more heartfelt real moments that we've gotten on the traders i don't feel like we've gotten in a lot of other areas and i really did appreciate that moment a lot um but what did you did you think that they were almost giving away too much information and then it was gonna hurt them like what did you think well yeah i think the information was oh you mean of the players like uh michael and ben yet like to give up the information that they did it no i think they handled it really well i think

59:38michael had a very sound argument like we gave up because what was the option 15,000 or 5,000 in the clue yeah yeah i think you say look we gave up 10,000 but if we use this the other trader we get 15,000 that's a net 5,000 and that's all you really need to say and again i think it's always smart in the traders to just if you can get in any information take it for go the prize money the prize money can all they can always add that 10,000 dollars back in whenever they want or they can sprinkle an extra 3000 or you get a trader this season you get 15 right i mean we still don't know quite if that is adding adding to it or if they're just going to adjust again the whole prize fund really is uh just it feels like a sham so you can get that money later get the information i think this was absolutely the right decision i think hey we're gonna tell people at the round table we're gonna like i like how michael handled it after the challenge and i like how that he told

1:00:40a few people in the car told a few people in the castle and then set it out loud everybody at the round table yeah i think i think that was all done very well and you had every reason to be like yeah anyone would take the clue we need to get a trader that that's more than 10,000 dollars so yeah i totally buy it yeah and then i was i was kind of surprised that michael took so much heat for just like being good at the game and everything after that and people saying we don't know how you survived and didn't get murdered and all that i mean like i feel like michael is playing a pretty solid game so i feel like it was you know i think the issue is saying why aren't you getting murdered it's kind of a funny like you're too smart you're too insightful and observant you like if i were a trader i would murder you so why are you still here yeah yeah in backtrack by mark camera in the past is prologue for a violent criminal with three names rickie lee pink pink has been rotting in jail for years plotting revenge against the man who thwarted his almost perfect theft of five million dollars in diamonds that man Wayne cutter is deceased but his grandson arles is very much

1:01:41alive for now pinking cutter about the collide in a violent confrontation on a floating city in the middle of the water a massive cruise ship traveling around Alaska's inside passage and experienced you as martial arles must move fast but cautiously where he may be the last of the cutter family tree as survivor fans it's not just the strategy and social dynamics that keep us in thrall it's also the idea of man versus wild this concept is at the heart of all mark camera's novels and it's especially prevalent in backtrack it's one of the main reasons i enjoyed this book and as listeners of the specialists i know you will too if you're an outdoor enthusiast fan of wilderness thrillers by author cj box and William Kent Krueger or just love a fast paced action thriller from the likes of jack car make sure to pick up your copy of backtrack today an alaskan resident in texas native with nearly 30 years in law enforcement camera is a master of action and gritty detail he brings explosive authenticity to backtrack as us martial arles cutters man hunt will employ all his skills in knowledge as a member of the us marshall service backtrack by mark camera is available now

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1:03:51at qvc fall shopping is more than just checking out it's discovering the brands you love across beauty fashion home and culinary all in one place whether you're getting ready for crisp mornings cozy nights or everyday moments qvc has what you need for the season ahead with brands like loric eller philosophy ninja and so many more shop now at qvc.com and then we have the second challenge and this is the j show this is j running around putting on a show and being like hey guys i have information i refuse to sit out go ahead can we go back to the first round i guess the only round table we got oh yeah okay so j you have to wait which i know you're not waiting for j because this is this was our cliffhanger in the middle i was that episode one or two they're they're blurring together for me it was indeed epistode one ended with somebody being at the round table saying something and then they just like cut immediately like you're starting

1:04:54a new episode they didn't go to commercial yeah okay that maybe that's why i'm like confused on when this was and especially we didn't recap right after an error you had to drive to the airport so little like fuzzy on which episode it was but i remember the cliffhanger of j being like everybody be quiet listen to me i have information to share i am a body language expert and i know somebody who's a trader and then it goes oh reactions around smash cut boom black commercial we come back it's on j and he goes oh this is too much for me right now i can't and then never says and then never gives a name and that was the cliffhanger that i had there's something i haven't been telling you i'm a body language expert and i've been paying attention i got dirt on somebody that's the cliffhanger and we return from the cliffhanger to have him

1:05:59go oh i don't know i can't handle this it's like what so not only is this absurd behavior from j it is absurd story telling and post-producing for that to be your cliffhanger and then not deliver not pay it off whatsoever i was shalact i was like wait am i going crazy here that was the big moment we left off on and then just never led to anything did you pick up on this this was crazy i did i did remember last night with the survivor recap i was like man i feel like devin is put on a show for us j it's a reality tv show man like my god there are 21 other people on this show i don't know like what including out including out well i actually think there were 22 to start this season i keep thinking 21 because of survivor i mean yeah what's the thing i was running to oh well then we're to 16 of either way doesn't matter it doesn't matter i

1:07:05feel like he is just i want to be a star on tv and this is what i'm going to do and you know what it's your moment this is your chance do what you got to do okay do what you got to do it's so over the top and Ben Rice's king says he's doing this to not get murdered but did he forget you get banished at round tables he's pissing everyone off and i understand he's coming in with a different kind of strategy than we've seen on the traders he's just trying to cause chaos because he thinks that that ultimately he's going to allow him to be like useful to the traders which will keep him in the game but if people get tired of you it's just like any other game if they get annoyed with you they're just going to vote you out and so i feel like for the sake of being good tv and trying to be the main character he has really ostracized himself from the rest of the group at the challenge like this moment was ridiculous i have this big thing just kidding but that'll be a good tv moment like congratulations you got your cliffhanger then he turns around

1:08:08it worth cliffhanger ever but then we go to this challenge and the whole thing is like at every gate you're gonna leave some people behind and he's like i'm not doing it i have information if you let me like that thing i'll tell you the names i'll tell you the names it's like Katie starts screaming at him and i get that then they're like well look Katie was annoyed Katie was this Katie was that give this man a wedgie or something like give me a break dude this is one where where is Brody from survivor to be like dude i'm about to put you in a headlock and make you go to sleep because you're driving everybody crazy and nobody wants to listen to it it was so over the top and frankly and i'm not normally like this but i can't help it it was obnoxious it was so obnoxious and again you're getting your moment we're all gonna be talking about j after this episode for sure so good for j i understand you're on tv you're playing the traders you want to be memorable it's very easy to not be remembered playing the traders because it's so easy to just go

1:09:11out early like poor kim did and that sucks so i get it this just feels so unbelievably performative i mean earlier in the episode we have him like putting his leg up high doing weird like he's just being weird i feel for the sake of being weird and maybe that's his natural personality maybe that's who he is but i feel like he is trying to be as memorable as he can be on this season of the traders and then he turns around and he says here's the three names it's christy it's kate and who is the third name we we mentioned it at the beginning of the podcast who was it i think that was offline chat help us out please because i can't remember the third name there was one third name but in the way it's like finish line well the weird part was i have a name and you have to let me go to the end and then i will tell you the name as if like the name you conjure up is going to be somehow a hundred percent accurate and you have a really nice and and that you are already putting out this aura and energy of i am better at this game than you i'm more observant i'm a better

1:10:16faithful i'm able to read people i am a body language expert as i told you at the last round table and that my thought on who the trader is is more correct than your thoughts and i think that is what pissed a lot of people off like why does the one name that first of all if you're a good faithful you are now withholding information from us if you really think you have it pinned and you really have evidence and have it figured out you should share it with us regardless of whether we give you a shield or whether you are on the short like regardless of any of that like that's what a good faithful would do and then you're also at the same time saying you are like smelling your own fart so you're like i am the only one that could have figured this out i'm the only one that could have pieced together the puzzle and the evidence and i have this name solely and no one else here has any rational thoughts or anything i'm the most important it was very self-important and look it was a tactic and he did get all the way to the end like he's protected from being murdered he did and i actually thought because this this is gonna look bad for Katie and i think a lot of people

1:11:21watch this and be like Katie got way too flustered in this moment and if she does get banished it's like if Katie kept the level ahead she wouldn't have been on anyone's radar that's what you want to do and i just don't really think that's the case because what Katie i think is because if Katie's a trade Katie knows that Jay is a faithful Katie knows that she's a trader she's not as she's not in the dark she has all the information i think this is much more frustrating if you are in the dark and you don't know whether Jay is tying the truth Jay Jay could be a trader for all you know Jay could be incorrect on his thoughts and guesses um you might be the one who who's getting pointed at by Jay like there's all these things that you're a faithful where you are more stress during this you're also at a point where you very much want a shield or you it's basically getting a shield if you don't end up in the cage if you then don't end up on the short list talk about a short list what 10 people is that really a short list if it's 10 people but if you are a faithful that's what

1:12:22your concern is that's what your mind is and so i thought Katie getting frustrated was her feeding off of the faithful energy and actually acting pretty faithful like Jay you are just stop like shut up and you heard a lot of other people just say shut up Jay enough out of you we'll talk about it later what's that at the end when he says the names and victor was the third one when he says the names like we don't care and like one of them's like oh like they're so aggravated by him at the end it doesn't even matter right he's aggravating everybody and i think that's why Katie getting frustrated actually was a good cover for her and then when Jay crosses the finish line they like the fire he goes it's Christie and it wasn't even Katie's name i think Katie came later because there was already heat on Katie from other people and he was trying to be validated that like i have it his main one name was Christie and that is incorrect and then he tried to validate himself by taking thoughts of others which is Katie and is correct but i don't think it was Katie's blow up that really like painted it as Katie because what his response was in the middle

1:13:27of the challenge was you're just saying that because you're a trader so like he had already kind of you're already revealing the information you're pretending to really withholding you know what he's pretty much what what like he wasn't explaining and what the shodan explain is he was pretty much saying i know who the third one is we already know it's we already know it's Victor and Katie i feel like that's kind of the consensus in the the house right now is that those two are traders and so that's why he throws out Christie's name because that's the third person look at me i'm so smart what's funny is one name i have one name yeah i think Christie wants the name because it was the third to add to that group yeah i don't know it feels like he would have said i know who the three traders are i know the three like he keeps repeating i know one name i mean if if Katie goes here hands up looking okay for a second he can't be murdered because he has the the shield along with seven or six others or seven total who have shields so he can't be murdered well they don't have shields they're just not on the short list but yeah yeah it's a short list

1:14:28thing but i'm just gonna call it shields of like they're not there um so he's he's saved there but he has to get through this round table if he gets through the round table great if Katie goes great if it is Christie or Victor hands up looking like an idiot and he just drove anybody crazy there's like maybe look and this happens a lot maybe down the line i'm going wow that decision jay made an episode four was so good and look at how it changed the whole game but right now i'm just seeing like hey i want attention give me screen time hi how's everybody doing screen time screen time screen time screen time screen time screen time screen time screen time screen time like that's what it feels like to me yeah and that's he's crushed time or it could be like he's just really bad at the traders and he's like a quirky guy because they cast quirky people for reality shows and they want loud big personalities and he thinks doing this ultimatum will help him get a shield as you've said even though it's not with the shield and that was his gameplay and it just comes off as a abrasive and annoying and screen grabby when he really isn't thinking about i don't know because the

1:15:30other one would go home but he's just like acting a bit to get screen time when there is some utility game wise in offering an ultimatum for information sitting there though with the one they're sitting there at the one chair and he says i'm going to give you guys information later okay well why don't you give it to us now it's not like can't now like it just it feels like these things that he's doing there's no way they're not keeping this in the edit because it's chaos and that's what they want and i feel like that's why he's doing it maybe i'm wrong but that's how it feels to me yeah no you you could be right i just mean there there are other reasons it could be he's this could be strad me he did also have the strategic reason which Ben Rice and the chat mentioned like he is not going to get murdered likely he could get banished for sure but if you are the traders you want to keep j in the game and that you applied for the traders right and so did i actually and one of the questions was you know do you want to be a trader faithful how

1:16:33would you play the game and if you're saying oh i could be a faithful you know how you can play as a faithful like what strategies are there you have such little information i think one of the interesting ways to play a faithful game that we don't often see is becoming chaotic faithful that can't get murdered and then all you have to do is survive half the game how many in our cast assessment how many people said i want to be a trader because then you can only get banished and not get murdered and that's the only time you can go and that you you increase your odds of survival by 50 percent yes yes we get that's the format of the show if you're a trader they can also or sorry if you're a faithful and you can also guarantee that you aren't getting murdered that's that's hey not for nothing Phil there's some strategic value to that you just have to make sure you survive banishment that's all you need yeah i mean i get that i just feel like what's also going to happen is let's say that j finds himself a final seven or final eight of this nobody

1:17:35wants to split the money with j nobody's going to want him to win so you're going to get rid of j at some point either he's going to be at the end with only traders and he's going to be a faithful and the traders are going to take the money or he's going to get to the end with a bunch of faithfuls who are going to say why don't we just do one more vote real quick and it's going to be like the sander situation of we just have to make sure and they're just going to get rid of j because no but our better better example is whatever CT and trichelle did to whatever her name was mj mj like doing that that's what's going to happen to j because they're not going to want j to win maybe he can be one of the stars of the season but nobody wants him to have the money at the end of this he's driving everybody crazy yeah that's a very good point and maybe there is a way to be a chaotic faithful game where you're not putting yourself at risk for murder in a way or fashion that doesn't prevent you from winning the game maybe I don't know maybe those two things don't work together that if you are so chaotic as a faithful that you're not getting murdered that you also

1:18:36there's that just means there's no way anyone wants you to win that that's possible that for that to be true so next week we have abby benn j katie michael shane and why it who are all safe so who do you think it's going to get banished and then who do you think it's going to get murdered this is two weeks again it's not actually happening next week but katie is likely going to get banished I think she's done and i think they're all going to be fun they got a greater net. but it seems like people are at least buying okay jay is a faithful but he's an annoying faithful and he's going to be somebody everybody's going to be willing to get on board with to vote out katie's names come up a bunch victors names come up a bunch but victors always the guy you can point to if your name comes up katie is somebody where it's like let's just make sure because the Logan Xavier thing that's a lot of heat on that trail yeah and i really don't think this was a lot hurtful i really don't and then who's on the the long list so on the long list and forgive me as

1:19:38I go through this but tamika which obviously she can't go morgan uh nia sherry is christy on there christy is on there abby ell is on there ben is on no ben is not quiet is on there and victor and mark um okay i don't think victor or sherry will go because they have a little bit of heat i don't think anything that goes because we saw tamika build that relationship with Clyde in the uh the second whatever that was the tomb yeah the crypt yeah the crypt um seems like that was the seas were planted for Clyde and tamika to be close and then so i think it's going to be one of these nobody's i don't know mark feels like that's too random it could be morgan i do lean abby here like you you had her on your short list last time she ends up in the cage why not take her

1:20:44i guess tamika could make that same argument i made earlier and that okay abby was kind of peddling tamika's name and if you murder abby it could come back to tamika so this could be like i'm just kind of a morgan sniping i think me morgan or nia or tia i don't even know who me it is so yeah those are the two that i'm looking at saying oh i think it could be one of these two people because we haven't really heard from them um you know there there's no harm in a murder like if you are the traders you let's say katie does go you want to go with somebody who is just so random not going to point any fingers at you now your tamika your joe i haven't seen them talk to nia i haven't seen them talk to uh morgan that's an easy like hey let's get rid of one of them nobody's gonna look at us maybe you get rid of mark because he joe does say he's close with mark and maybe that would take heat off of joe but if there's no heat on joe or tamika anyway get rid of morgan get rid of

1:21:47nia because nobody's really gonna have any idea why they're going anyway yeah i also think from a storytelling perspective if we do start the episode with a roundtable and katie goes that's going to be a big punch a big moment you're back after two weeks you get your trader your first trader of the season is banished everyone's clapping cheering the murder victim doesn't need a land super hard like oh my gosh i'm devastated that we lost x or kim or logon oh my gosh logon felt like a little bit of a gut punch here we had kind of gotten to know him and if it is morgan or near some mood we don't know as well i think that would kind of make sense for where this lands and the schedule yeah i agree i really really really agree with that um anything else i know you had said you wanted to talk about the second challenge did you want to talk about the the mechanics of it and how you don't appreciate it no i mean look the challenge worked because jay worked that's why

1:22:47you had the contentious moments you had the ultimatum like j made this challenge fun to watch and talk quite a bit about it so look the challenge gets a check mark for achieving its goal like any challenge on a show like this should provide story that's the whole point that's why you want decisions you want shields you don't want to just be adding money what i didn't really because we've seen stuff like this before and i just thought the crypt were so much more interesting because you put two people in a private moment where they get to make a decision together and you're inherently creating a secret two people are going to have information that the rest of the group doesn't have it's up to them whether they share it they can lie about it they they also have a decision to actually make um whereas i feel this one that you're just leading a parade through these gates it's like okay four people have to hold the ropes to pull the cage and they're gonna stay behind and and the gate goes up and i'm like yeah but those four people aren't going to be the only four people and then we we talk and i've made a foot of it all night we keep calling it a short list

1:23:50there's ten people on this thing it's not that big of a deal so i understand some people are getting shield some people aren't that's kind of an injury every challenge to spell okay we're gonna do a four people here then two more people then four people it's it's the same decision it's the same beat over and over and whether you went the first time or the second time or the third time there's no difference in it you just ended up in the cage so we never felt like the stakes were changing or rising you should have just read it at the beginning all right nine of you go what's that you should just read it at the beginning nine of you go get in the cage that's what i mean like it's the same decision every time let's just figure it out and i get it you have to make it longer and doing it by piecemeal i isolate some characters and some beats and stuff but it's just not as dynamic or interesting as the first job i get that i totally agree i felt like the second one i was just like waiting for it to end right you're like let's just get to the finish line yeah agree totally great all right anything else about this episode are we good i think we're good it's like pretty good

1:24:52recap of two full i guess not two full hours only 120 minutes of traders we did we did our best 80 minutes with the gap so here we are but um thank you all so much for listening if you haven't checked out our survivor coverage we started it yesterday obviously our recap will also did a short form video yes like four and a half minutes long it is worth checking out it is a lot of fun will will put some sarcasm in there with such a dry tone that i was like did you might almost want to say like psych or something but no we just kept it going part of it to see if people catch on to uh you're gonna get people who are like will that number six is not actually true anyway yeah i think we're gonna play around i think i can make one for the traders i think the tough thing for the traders making a short form video is i don't really know how to get the episodes um so off to just figure that out yeah yeah we'll see what happens but it was fun to try it with

1:25:55the survivor so if you haven't checked out that survivor coverage go ahead and do that uh john and Alex did the challenge tonight so make sure you check out that episode tomorrow Blake and i will be live at some point doing digging deeper we just have to see if Blake is going to be working tomorrow or not hopefully he's not so we can do it earlier in the day if he's not working it'll probably be around like noon pacific time around three eastern time uh and then john and Alex McKenna's at a wedding this weekend so that's why she's not doing all the initial survivor stuff but john and Alex will be doing survivor rewind tomorrow night and then on sunday i got went worth in obry at two p.m pacific five p.m eastern so we are in full swing now it is time to go we have so much going on i'm not gonna sleep nights so nice that i'm living on the west coast now and i'm excited if you win these episodes or an hour and a half so we're not podcasting at 10 30 at night because it doesn't feel any different then just live it on the east coast it's crazy how that works so um this one was my wife's fault because she built the flight but you know here we are um but thank you also much like this video subscribe to the channel patreon.com slash especially if you want more

1:26:57coverage over there uh if you want to participate in our powering he's game for survivor now's the time to sign up so get over there become a top tier patron and all that fun stuff otherwise we'll see you on two weeks if you're only here for traders content or we'll see you a lot for survivor content bye bye a lot nonstop you know what's up it's Ian from couch soup and i'm here to tell you that Michelle and i are continuing our lantern watch along on the watching now podcast no it's not the Ryan Reynolds one get the podcast from wherever you get podcasts from and on youtube with great power comes great responsibility hi i'm Gus i'm a dog at an expert in speed so when it comes to fast internet i know what i'm talking about that's why i recommend optimum fiber powered internet it has fast and reliable

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