The 'real' secret space program | Reality Check

0:00Get A and Welcome to Reality Check. It's one of the most vexing subjects in the history of UAP mysteries. The subject of the secret space program. Is it real or is it all a fabrication? Canadian filmmaker D'Acy Weir has produced over 20 independent documentary productions. He's joined us, previously on Reality Check, to talk about his work on Puerto Rico's 2013 Agua dealer homeland security UAP incident, some of the most analysed UAP footage ever captured. He also produced another film on the Pascagula 1973 UFO incident where two fishermen reported an encounter that is still unexplained half a century on. In his secret space UFOs documentaries,

1:07he investigates early space age anomalies and UFOs as well as NASA-related UFO encounters in space. We'll be talking to him about that a little bit later in the show. But I want to start today with D'Acy's work investigating the lurid claims of a secret space program. The secret space program, so called, is a subject I get an enormous amount of mail about. I'm often asked by viewers why and I reporting on the claims of Corey Good and David Wilcock. A lot of people believe it's real. In 2024, D'Acy Weir released his two-part documentary film, Dark Alliance, the inside story of a cosmic con. Narrated and co-written with Carrie Lindsay, the film traced how a booming new age UFO and entertainment industry packaged unverifiable,

2:10and quite frankly incredibly dubious sounding claims of a secret alien space program, Mars colonies, covert government ET alliances, and the so-called 20-and-back program. Claims by witnesses that they were part of an off-world fight for freedom against malevolent aliens that conveniently allowed these witnesses to serve 20 years off-world and then be somehow age-regressed and returned to the moment they left. The film explored the story of how Corey Good and David Wilcock rose through the new age, Gaya TV's cosmic disclosure and related programming. How the narrative was built as a product the former Gaya head of production Jay Whidner described shaping Good's on-camera persona, advising a quieter, more humble delivery so audiences

3:12would find him believable. And how David Wilcock had backed Good as vetted. As D'Acy explained, these shows were lucrative for Gaya TV. Its stock price surged Hollywood interest followed. D'Acy's investigative film argued that these extraordinary claims about a secret space program had no hard evidence that the story had become cult-like. Critics of their dramatic claims were painted as a coordinated, dark alliance, while the principal figures and inner circle used litigation and online pressure. His latest film, Dark Alliance, the next generation, is D'Acy's follow-up expose of that specific new age conference circuit secret space program, Mythos. So welcome back D'Acy. As I understand your position, you would say that classified

4:15US space activity and some genuine UAP UFO secrecy almost certainly exists, but that the 20-in-back program, the Dark Fleet, and message to the stars package is unverified storytelling that has frankly become a belief economy. Yeah, thanks for having me back. Essentially, we live in an attention economy with social media and even news. Influencers kind of rule conversation around everything these days. And this whole secret space program Mythos took over the UAP community conversation for many years starting in 2015 to around 2017. It's still lingers today, but recently I've been bullied fraudulent copyright attacks by

5:16Corey Good himself and my cosmic con documentary about this whole story covering public record data and testimony from the people that were on the ground floor of this thing has been taken offline. So what exactly is it that Corey Good is trying to suppress in your documentary? What's he complaining that you somehow caused a legal breach on to try and stop it from being aired? Right. So it looks like he's trying to suppress the deposition videos that were recorded in 2022 via Leon Isaac Kennedy's defense team. So Leon Isaac Kennedy, an African American actor in Hollywood who at one point worked with Corey Good. It's very interesting that all these people that were once allies of Corey Goods have now become enemies and he's had lawsuits against.

6:23Leon was defending himself in this court case and he had a media company come in, record these deposition videos with Linden Webb, his attorney, and Linden asked him all these questions about his tales of being in a secret space program. And in this six hour deposition video, he sets on record, legal record that he had never been to space physically. He had just created this IP intellectual property story well at Gaia TV and that it was maybe a meditative process or something out of body but not physical. And to be clear Darcy previously in interviews, had he given the impression or expressly stated that he was part of a secret space program where he was physically involved in

7:24traveling out of earth and into space and working in a secret space program. Absolutely. On Gaia TV's cosmic disclosure episode one of season one that gave birth to this whole secret space program propaganda. In 2015, he sits across from David Wilcock and professes he had been to space in this quasi-military role fighting with aliens and part of a galactic alliance with these fear beings or something like that. The thing that I found fascinating about all of these allegations over the years was how closely they matched Hollywood movies. One of them involved this idea of 20 and back that you could be sent into space and that you would be somehow caused to have amnesia and to forget this service that that bears an uncanny resemblance to the Arnold Schwarzenegger

8:29total recall film. That's right. And Arnold's character goes to Mars and reclaims his secret identity as like this space spy that's trying to unveil alien technology and change Mars and free them from this kind of like evil corporate human empire that's ruling there and keeping all these sort of hybrid mutant humans under duress. But you know it it treads popular themes with Star Trek where reptilians are an alien negative force that Captain Kirk fought back in the 1960s. You know all of this stuff has been kind of read into popular science fiction for decades now. And in fact

9:29what we cover in Dark Alliance the Next Generation is how this stargate mythos started getting read into all of these invasions that have happened in military history recently. So we cover how Iraq got invaded post 9-11 and we are in September this is the 11th day of September that we're recording today. You know less we forget what happened in New York with the World Trade Center. And there are some strange things like building seven that went down where people still scratch their heads and say what happened there why did that happen if no plane crashed into it. And I think the conspiracy world really opened up at that time post 9-11 to all kinds of rogue theories. In fact you know something actually happened where trillions of dollars went missing

10:36after the 9-11 or just around the time of the 9-11 attacks. And Donald Rumsfeld came forward and said we cannot find these missing trillions of dollars in government military spending. So the conspiracy world took that which I still believe you could spend trillions of dollars on special access programs reverse engineering technology and that type of thing in terms of the UFO question. But people like Michael Salis stepped in and said oh we invaded Iraq for stargate technology like the movie stargate featuring Kurt Russell and David Spader. Or recently we invaded Iran and that is the popular secret space program explanation for why we invaded Iran or even Venezuela that we went there for stargates. And I think it's like

11:40you know the greatest kind of example of operation mocking Mockingbird still existing today. And the UFO community being stupified and believing you know incredible sensational claims with literally no verified data to prove them. Okay so let's work through that. I mean I don't want to discount the possibility of a covert secret space program at all but I'm not talking about a 20 and back program or you know people fighting space aliens way off in the middle of nowhere in the galaxy. There is definitely a covert space program being operated by the United States and other nations. We know for example that the NRO for many years was in existence and its existence wasn't acknowledged by the US and it was operating surveillance satellites unknown to almost everybody on the world. We also know that there was a manned orbital laboratory plan which was an

12:43NRO US Air Force plan for a crude spy station with a huge telescope and there were 17 military astronauts who were trained and selected for this secret space program and they spent about $1.5 billion in 1960 dollars which was an incredible amount of money back then. It was cancelled in 1969 allegedly when uncrewed satellites won the day and it was only declassified about 10 years ago and there was obviously the manned spaceflight engineer program for the space shuttles where they had classified shuttle payloads that's a covert space program and then my favorite is the X37B which is a spacecraft and an acknowledged but payload classified reusable space plane with multiple hundred day missions and this is a secret program of record. It's not a fan fiction story.

13:45There's the Misty and Zirconic still satellites that cost many billions and then Darcy there are the claims of people like Gary McKinnon who I actually have a huge amount of respect for the British hacker who was I think vilified and attacked by the United States quite unfairly because they were stupid enough to leave their computer systems wide open to a hack and he was able to penetrate the NASA and other subcontractor computer systems and on those computer systems Gary's testified I think quite convincingly that he did see evidence of extraordinarily large imagery of spacecraft in Earth orbit that there is allegedly something going on that he's suggesting is known to NASA involving the deployment of non-terrestrial officers which is

14:48a phrase he saw on classified material that he inadvertently came across while sleuthing on the NASA computers that they'd left wide open. Do you exclude the possibility? Do you say it's not possibility that there is some kind of secret space program? I do not. I think there is a secret space program and I think all the things you just mentioned allude to secret space program activities, nuts and bolts that many people have discussed well before you and I even Joseph P. Farrell, Walter Bosley, Richard Dolan, these people were very serious investigators into a nuts and bolts sort of secret space program that's been going on but it's the 20th and back or the invasion of Iran and Iraq and Venezuela for a Stargate sort of secret space program that I feel is this delusionary

15:54live action role playing sort of storytelling that happens in the UFO community and it controls sort of dominates the conversation over the real nuts and bolts you know more elusive secret space program that's probably taking place and I will say Gary McKinnon we featured his testimony in this dark lines the next generation documentary in which Richard Dolan interviewed him about his case and kind of cross examined because for many decades now since Michael Sala has published stories of a dark fleet and solar warden existence of a secret space program online he has alluded that Gary McKinnon's testimony about his hack was exact proof to solar warden and

16:55the dark fleet existing in our solar system this sort of larpy secret space program evidence and Gary says quite adamantly no I never confirmed that but if you go back and look at these books that were published and Corey Good and David Wilcock dark journalist all of these quite famed individuals in this secret space program mythology sort of area of ufology they all profess that Gary confirmed it himself but we go back and we trace the origins of that mention it came from above top secret a message board conspiracy forum and then it got co-opted into Jeffrends.com as well as you know the Corey Good David Wilcock and that whole media empire that was once getting a massive

17:59marketing thrust with the you know backing of Gaia TV when this all took off because I think it needs to be reminded to people just how big Corey Good and David Wilcock were in their day I mean they were the lead acts in a lot of UFO conferences around the United States where people were paying a lot of money to attend and come and listen to these guys as the headline act for a real expose of covert secret US activity and out of space involving aliens you're saying it was almost certainly unsubstantiated and possibly most likely a fabrication I would say so yeah if there's no possible proof to tie to these claims it just sounds like mythology and entertainment and yes they made very large amounts money and had a huge crowd following them at this time when

19:02this became the hot button issue I mean in the deposition video Corey Good says that just over a weekend of doing a webinar David Wilcock was able to attain over $600,000 in a webinar fund you from people buying tickets well that's that's peak investment into a story that's completely unsubstantiated you know you and I get called drifters because we investigate the UAP subject and I can tell you I've never heard of that sort of money in this game frankly it's it's quite a story one example that I am aware of is it's been attributed to Gary McKinnon that he talked about to craft in orbit and that he saw the names of these craft and from memory one of them was called my after my name say Roscoe, Roscoe, Helen Cotta the USS Roscoe, Helen Cotta is it true that Gary McKinnon gave any testimony at all about witnessing a document online when he hacked into

20:07the NASA database referring to the USS Roscoe, Helen Cotta. I have never seen that evidence I've only ever heard of him talk about off-world crew manifests lists that he had seen and the pictures that were coming up on his 56k dial-up modem slowly on his screen showing objects that looked you know anomalous to him didn't look like our typical spacecraft at that time. You know in this line of work I spend most of my time asking who's in charge of the information you're not allowed to see who's guarding those files who's protecting the people who can't protect themselves and it got me thinking about a different kind of cover-up cover-ups that happen after a car accident, a workplace injury or when an insurance company sends their own investigator

21:11to make sure you get as little as possible. That's a bit like putting the fox in charge of guarding the henhouse not at all unlike the defense department looking after UFO transparency. You wouldn't do that that's exactly why we're talking about Morgan and Morgan America's largest injury law firm. For over 35 years they've been fighting for every day people, not the interests of powerful insurance companies. They care about the people. They care about the appliance. A lot. Morgan and Morgan have recovered over 30 billion for their clients and look I've covered enough stories to know when something's being buried it usually takes serious manpower to back it up. The guys at Morgan and Morgan bring over 1,000 lawyers and 100 offices across all 50 states to every case. That's not a guy with a briefcase that's an operation built to get answers.

22:16If you're ever injured because of someone else's negligence you deserve to be compensated and you shouldn't have to go broke in the process. That's why Morgan and Morgan doesn't charge any fees unless they win your case. So if you're ever injured in an accident you can check out Morgan and Morgan. You can start your claim in just a click without even leaving your coach. Check out the link in the description to learn more. So you don't exclude the possibility that the United States is aware of giant potentially non-human, maybe human craft in low earth orbit, consistent with what Gary McKinnon described in his account of what he saw on the NASA database. What you do dispute are the more elaborate probably conflated tales from people like Good and Wilcock. Michael Sala, I believe that they fabricate things that are real. They take something that has

23:21a base in truth and they create this very large, mythical story to add on top of real events or real things that are being found out there. So I don't discount that there is a secret space program that has existed and could still exist. I mean, I even made a documentary about the possibilities of this TR3B which was supposedly something that was used to carry crew and personnel from Earth to space and carry out research and off-world experimentation and stuff. And that would have involved something like a anti-gravity type propulsion. It alluded to that in our documentaries, Secret Space, UFOs, Rise of the TR3B. And there was an individual who, you know, people have done hardcore research off of a guy who retraced back to actually working at Area 51 named Edgar Rothschild

24:31Fouche and Jeremy Reese. He looked into this guy, interviewed him profusely and found him to be the type of person that actually had a background in some kind of special access programs and, you know, advanced research into anti-gravity propulsion type planes. The TR3B might not be the actual official name. It's just what he talked about in the late 90s at conferences and said a lot of these black triangles are human technology that we reverse engineered off of something that may have been from unearthly origin. And you find that a credible possibility. I do find that to be a credible possibility. And I think even with the documentaries I've released in the past about NASA's recording of anomalies in space, you know, right from the inception of NASA,

25:33the NASA's first mission, Secret Space, UFOs in the beginning, we cover X-15 pilot sighting by Joe White and Robert Walker, some of the original astronauts that flew into space on the X-15 missions saw craft up there or objects that were anomalous, that were pacing their craft, that were above the Earth's atmosphere. And this is part of public record during the Gemini missions, during the Mercury missions, astronauts saw things like James McDivitt and Frank Borman. And even in the STS missions, which we cover in Secret Space, UFOs, fast walkers, you have people like Johnny Blaha being recorded during his STS missions saying we have an alien spacecraft under observance. I want to get to that a little bit later, so I just want to deal quickly though

26:36with tying an aboe the issue of the Secret Space Program claims made by Corey Gooden, David Wilcock. One of the issues I think that bolstered, if you like, their credibility, if they had any, were the fact that there were people like a guy called Tony Rodriguez who came public and he claimed he was taken as a child into a 20-in-back program and that he worked as a drug courier, a sex slave, that he was a slave labor on a German run, dark fleet merchant ship. I mean, I have to admit, when I heard all this, I thought this is just crazy sci-fi nonsense, but these people appeared at UFO conferences, didn't they? Another one was Chris O'Connor. He had similar 20-in-back framing, but a slightly more pleasant version and he claimed multiple tours in the 20-in-back and there was a Randy Kramer who claimed to be a super soldier, a Mars-based protector narrative. He

27:38talked about med beds that healed cancer and reversed aging and I think also he's the guy who claimed that Obama was part of the super soldier, a secret soldier program. I'll get to that. How do you explain these people? Where did they come from? Well, I think my opinion, my perspective of them, is that they all believe what happened to them and I believe experiencers like Calvin Parker and Charlie Hickson when they say they were abducted or Mario Woods. But when you kind of expand and fabricate to a point where it reads like a sci-fi novel with this 20-in-back story, they all prescribed to this serving for 20 years in a space program and coming back. And actually Randy Kramer was the very probably one of the pioneers of this and actually did have an air force background. Many of them don't have any military credentials.

28:44They all kind of talk about this thing and then when it comes to coming back from that service, it's like their Benjamin buttoned back to their original body as a young teenager and live out their life here on earth or their cloned. It changes. It has its own flavor per person that's telling the story and when you don't have that consistency of continuity, especially with the UFO UFO ephology and the history of actual verified UFO events that have happened, there's a consistency to stories and that's where my beliefs tend to go towards something actually happened. But these people all have their own variation and it's akin to what I think is like live action role playing where you have people that go out and re-enact a civil war in a field and they take on an alternate

29:47personality, a character and they re-enact a battle from famous civil war days. A lot of those people believe that that is their alter ego and I feel like that's what we're seeing with this secret space program group of people. Well, I'll kind of go, oh yeah, I was part of the secret space program too and I remember you and you know it just feet off of each other and it's got an entertainment aspect and I think it has a bit of that live action role playing aspect to it. So you're not stating categorically that these people are by necessity liars, it's just it's unverified, it's unverifiable, there's no evidence to corroborate these claims and we should be skeptical. And my documentaries show that, you know, that's all, it's public record information, it's legally licensed information and I think the more malicious people that come from

30:51that like Corey Good want this to be taken so seriously so they can consistently market this as it's completely real and you know anybody who says it's not I'm going to go after legally. Is it true that Corey Good has the IP has asserted copyright over the 20 and back title? Well, he's trying to contest that in court with Guy at TV right now and as far as I know he's been found under a perjury in that case he's got fines racked up, he's been delaying this case for five years. I feel bad for Guy at TV because they supported such an individual and got behind him, made him famous and now they are being punished for it. I've been following that it's still to be seen whether he can claim IP on that because there were other people like Randy Kramer that appeared on project Camelot well before Corey Good talking about the secret space program.

31:59I mean how could you how could how could he assert intellectual property on a program? I mean it would be like saying I own the Apollo space program intellectual property. I mean it's absurd. Yeah and it's absurd what he's doing to my films because he's filed a late copyright in December of 2025 asserting that depositions recorded by Leon Isaac Kennedy in 2022 are his copyright. It makes no sense it's literally just a tactic to try and control narrative. And crucially it's in that deposition where he's essentially admitting that he never went to space that the whole thing is essentially in his mind. And an intellectual property for him to sell. So let's talk about the specific claims that I did mention that came up with Randy Kramer I think. You know he talked about something called a med bed and the the reason I raised that one is

33:02because even President Trump himself at one stage and maybe we should put a copy of the tweet up here at one stage President Trump temporarily posted a tweet about a med bed asserting that this new technology would be brought into American hospitals. What do you know about this? Is there anything to the med bed story? Hey it's Kelly Rowland you may not know this but I have Exema so I get how it can still your time but why let Exema take over when you can talk to your doctor about Epglyce. Epglyce, lubricism ab LBKZ, a 250 milligram per 2 milliliter injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe axima. Also called a topic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. Epglyce can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you are allergic to Epglyce. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. I problems can occur. Tell your doctor

34:05if you have newer worsening eye problems you should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglyce. Before starting Epglyce tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Pay partnership with Lily. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about Epglyce and visit Epglyce.com or call 1-800-LilyRX or 1-800-545-5979. I think again this is lived in sci-fi for a long time. In Star Trek there has been bio beds where people can get healed and rest and repair. In Elysium a famous film by Neil Blumcomp. The rich live on a ring in space and they consider an amed bed and it immediately zaps any cancers out of them and makes them young again. I think everybody would love for this technology to actually exist. In the secret space program mythology that existed for decades. Even Randy Kramer raised

35:08money to produce a med bed which he said put his body back together more than a dozen times that his limbs were blown off in his space wars. Is he the guy who says that Obama was a super soldier as well on Mars? I think it was probably Andrew Basiago who created project. He's also among the secret space program people. He said he was a time travel. He went back to the days of Abraham Lincoln and was in a photo from there. Jesse Ventura confronted him on his conspiracy TV show on True TV back in the day and caught him in a lie about where he was growing up because they went to his home and the lady that walked out front was like our family's own this house for over 100 years. This guy's never lived here. It makes you wonder how far these people will go to trying to claim something that's untrue and and convince people like the UFO public. But yeah,

36:13the med beds it's a bit of a scary thing because when Trump tweeted about this in 2025 on Truth Social he claimed that they were going to roll out med bed hospitals with these kind of like gold cards certifications that people could enroll go and get treatments. It was quickly scrubbed from his Truth Social posting. What I've noticed with the investigation of this sort of secret space program audience is that they're heavily involved with QAnon. They're heavily involved with the same figures and they are adamant levers of the SSP sort of propaganda. And unfortunately I feel like a lot of this is brainwash that these people have fallen ill too. Could it be deliberate disinformation? Is it possible that some of these people making these

37:14grandiose lurid claims about a secret space program are in fact part of a deliberate official attempt to try and disinform the public so that the whole idea of a covert space program is immediately discredited? Yeah, you hit the nail on the head there. I mean, if you have something out there that's so delusional and unproven but people are touting it as absolute truth and then they have to go to a court of law and explain that to a judge and try to fight this case with Guy at TV, it gets thrown out where people like there's no proof. And if it's unverified, it just makes a mockery of everything else that people are trying to seriously investigate in the UFO community. My hat's off to people like Jesse Michaels for looking at Thomas Brown. Thomas Townsend Brown, TTV. Thomas Townsend Brown, right? And the

38:18anti-gravity research that was early on after the Manhattan Project going on. I think there's a very true reality to that stuff existing and scientists quietly sequestering their talents and the reverse engineering exploits to that type of stuff behind closed doors. But then the main conversation is about mythology instead of that type of stuff. And I think it's exactly what you would want if you were an intelligence agency trying to flood the the zone with disinformation. It would be the perfect way of poo-pooing any idea of any kind of covert space program to encourage these people that come out and make these completely grandiose claims. They're conflating a reality. I mean even David Wilcock in recent months has been declared to be a missing scientist

39:22when that whole thing was going down. And it's mind-boggling to me because the history of David Wilcock was he was born in 1973 in Roderding, Roderding, Damn, New York. He came from a regular family early on. He took interest in UFOs and esoteric information. He soon wrote about the dreams and sort of metaphysical theories he had. It came loosely famous for saying he was the reincarnation of Edgar Casey who you know was a prominent psychic and predictor of the future. And then he made predictions about the Mayan calendar ending 2012. And he got wrapped up in Gaia TV. He created the disclosure program with Jay Weidner. And then it's when cosmic disclosure

40:29took off with this whole 20-in-back thing that I think he became slightly diluted and he believed everything that this so-called insider was telling him, Corey Good. And I do... I just want to say nothing should detract here from the fact that for Mr Wilcock's family, it was an enormous tragedy that he took his own life earlier in the year. And my heart goes out to his family and they have my deepest sympathies. But that shouldn't stop rigorous scrutiny of the claims that he made. Just so I'm clear though, Darcy, as I understand Wilcock never made the assertion himself that he had had these experiences in the Secret Space program. He was always someone reporting on the claims made by good and others. Yeah. He was a frontman for the idea of the Secret Space program in the way that Corey, Michael Kramer and all of these guys coming out

41:33a guy at TV were claiming, even Emory Smith. So he was a powerful orator. He was a very interesting intellectual. He challenged the mainstream by discussing fringe theories of UFOs and metaphysical science. And I applaud him for that. In fact, I've even said before I kind of got into the UFO subject from seeing a lecture that he was doing at like a Hilton as a younger man. I think it was the earlier 2000s talking about this kind of whistleblower rogue scientist guy named Dan Burish that had encounters with an alien named J. Rod and so on and so forth. Loved it was sucked into that story. He was really good at telling stories. And I think in my opinion, he kind of lost his way. And actually, I do have a letter I wanted to read. There

42:35was near the end of his life here. He did get involved with a corporation called Stavati Aerospace. And this individual named Chris Baskar became his close friend who's the CEO of that company. Now, there's a lot of allegations around maybe this guy Hoodwink David Wilcock because David, we do have on record transferred over two million dollars of his personal life savings to this company Stavati Aerospace because he believed in what they were doing. They were building possible advanced fighter craft and all kinds of maybe UFO type objects that he was interested in. But shall I read this letter? I'd love to hear it. Yeah. All right. So this was published by Stavati. It's a statement on the passing of director David Wilcock. So

43:37David joined the company as a director after leaving Gaia after all of this sort of snafu with Corey Good and such. And I'll just jump to two important paragraphs. It's a four-page statement. People can find this online. David has been categorized as a UFO researcher as stated within his author bio. David has been professionally recognized as an author, professional filmmaker, and researcher of ancient civilizations, consciousness science, and new paradigms of matter and energy. The New York Times best-selling author of the Source Field Investigations, the Synchronicity Key, and the Ascension Mysteries. David served as a consulting producer and regular contributor for the history channels Ancient Aliens appearing in more than 600 television episodes,

44:37as well as millions of views through YouTube's videos and articles. At one point during his early days with Stavati, David shared with me a three-view drawing of a vehicle that he was told was a space fighter by a person close to him, with whom he had worked many times on air in the past. He will remain unidentified, but the insider was not very good at differentiating between a space fighter and a canceled Navy attack aircraft. The insider was attempting to convince David that he had super-secret knowledge by sharing with David a line drawing of the A12 Avenger 2, with its carrier landing hook deployed. David was highly suspicious of the drawing and information, but at the time he was not

45:37an aviation expert. I swiftly identified the aircraft for David and shared with him the history of the A12 program. At that point, David realized beyond any shadow of doubt that the insider had been misinforming him for many years and did not have the secret information he claimed, especially regarding alleged off-planet experiences and fabled interfaces with a secret space alliance. David continued to break ties with that individual, shifting his attention and focus while discovering the real history of breakthrough aviation along with the canceled A12 Avenger 2. This was one of the many eye-opening discoveries for David as his career and understanding of the world evolved. What a tragedy. Very tragic. It sounds like he's talking about

46:39Corey Good. What a tragedy though. Obviously, the poor man was very confronted by the fact that a lot of what he'd been saying was based on allegedly untrue claims made by a person. Yeah, one of his best friends growing up did a live stream, YouTube video. People can check this out after David's passing. His name is Jude. When all these people were saying that David was a missing scientist and that somebody lacked him and all that stuff, Jude went forward with the family of David Wilcox and said, this was a suicide. There was a suicide letter. There are police and ambulance transcript records of the phone call he made in distress, mental distress, discussing his financial

47:40situation and his mental health and physical health deteriorated. My heart goes out to his family. I would never want this to happen to him or anyone else. It's really sad. So let's move on, Darcy. The thing that you alluded to earlier was the fact that there is an abundance of evidence, quite a huge amount of evidence from even the very early NASA missions of anomalous objects in Earth orbit that have been seen and reported and recorded by NASA astronauts. And a lot of the work that you've done, one of the films that you did focused on what are called Sky, Sky, Fast Walkers. For at least half a century, we know American astronauts, highly sophisticated US military space surveillance systems have encountered objects in Earth orbit that were and often still are unidentified. And we know from work that's been done notably by John Greenwald

48:46with his excellent black vault FOIs, he obtained evidence about the Fast Walker database that was operated by the US Air Force. And this is something that you've gone into. And there are a number of key events that are talked about in the films that you've made where there is quite obviously a anomalous phenomena that potentially is intelligently controlled that was acknowledged and recorded by NASA astronauts. And my personal favorite from your film is the Skylab 3, the 20th of September 1973 incident. And I think this is potentially the most important NASA orbital UAP case in your films. Alan Beam, Jack Luisma, Owen Garriott, they're near the end of their 59 day Skylab 3 mission. And on Mission Day 55, Luisma looks out the window and notices an unusually reddish, bright

49:52object outside Skylab's wardrobe window. I mean that'd be pretty cool if you're an astronaut and you look out of the window and you see something that is clearly anomalous. Yeah, that case was first brought to me by a friend who I partnered with on a lot of this stuff named Luna Cognita, Carrie Martin. He's also a fellow Canadian. And that incident happened right after the Apollo manned missions had finished. So Apollo 17 had came and went. Many astronauts had seen stuff that was anomalous during those missions. In fact, one of the biggest proponents for UFO disclosure was Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell. But I digress. So Luisma and Alan Beam, these guys see an object outside this port window on a space station. So again, real space station,

50:55in history, real UFO sighting. And this video, this isn't there, this photographs of this. There's photographs. There's still imagery that was recovered from old archives. And then the transcripts post mission where the astronauts were debriefed and discussing this encounter they had. Well, this they were drifting over Africa. The object kept pace with them. It kind of stayed along with them, which no satellite had really demonstrated characteristics of at that time. Remember, this is with the early 1970s or yeah, late 1970s, I think. So you've got these anomalies in characteristics. Its color is red. It seems to have a roundish sort of disc shape to the top of it. And they were spooked. They had never seen anything like this. Never

51:57seen a satellite or anything else in their space flight history. And you got to remember people like Alan Beam had been on the Apollo manned missions. So they had been on the moon. They had seen things that no other man had seen before. I note that the crew never reacquired the object. They never saw it again. And they were still asking for its identification in the technical debrief they had when they were back on Earth. Did they ever get an answer? Never gotten answer. And I think something we even discuss with the X-15 missions that happened in early space history in pretty much 60 to 62 where Robert White and Joe Walker were looking at these objects keeping pace with them in space. There was wing camera footage.

53:02And images that NASA had in their archive in which many researchers had written to NASA to try and get them to release to the public or at least to them as researchers to further understand. And we show in NASA's first missions that after all of this profuse writing that happened from decades and decades of UFO researchers trying to get this stuff released. Their end result was they were told by NASA and the Air Force at the time. You do not have a need to know. Yes, we have this footage. Yes, there is images that exist out there. But you do not have the need to know. And we cannot give you the actual motion picture, DAC motion picture footage that would have shown them. So you are in little D

54:03is holding back on the full extent of what it actually knows about anomalous objects in Earth orbit. 100% and it is funny to hear Neil the Grass Tyson recently say why would we not trust NASA? He hasn't looked at the history of NASA's proclamations about the UFO existence or events because they have often been considered the top scientific agency in the world to give answers of substance regarding this mystery. And even James Fox spoke to the former administrator for NASA after that administrator said in public record that he spoke to the pilots that saw the tic-tacs and stuff and he believed that we weren't alone in the universe and he believed their testimony but then said to James Fox, you know, I don't believe in little green

55:08men basically. This constant sort of flip flopping has happened from NASA. I don't know how we can trust them especially with so many cases throughout history where even their own astronauts said I saw something that can't be explained. Now as your film reveals from around about 1973 onwards after that Skylab story there was what's called the Fast Walker's database compiled by the US Air Force and there's a thesis that actually acknowledges this written by a captain in the US Air Force it was published in 1989 and interestingly enough declassified and it explained that overhead platforms are operating around the geostationary belt where satellites sit in geostationary orbit encountered objects reflecting sunlight through their sensors. These objects known as Fast Walkers and their detection created suspicion quote that uncatalog objects might exist.

56:11And therefore Norrad the North American Air Defense Command tasked the foreign technology division of the CIA's flight performance division to analyse these tracks lasting 15 to 30 minutes and to try and identify the objects and the database proved Fast Walkers are real. The detections were real sensor events. Some detections failed normal catalogue correlation they couldn't be explained and essentially there was a confirmation that there was something anomalous there that could not be explained and they're not saying that it's synonymous with alien spacecraft it was just an unexplained and has that Fast Walkers database ever been released in its entirety Darcy? No and in fact I feel like people that are in the know or have been exposed to deep space data

57:14satellite photography and video videography from space-based platforms have alluded to this type of information being kept from the public namely Christopher Mellon talking about the plethora of 4k quality data that he's seen from space of objects coming and going from Earth that seemed to be anomalous there's apparently a trove of that that's not been released and then you've got people like Matthew Brown who talk about the immaculate constellation which is a unified you know system of planet-based and space-based monitoring systems that are looking for objects coming and going. I think that you know what we examined in Fast Walkers in the documentary is just the idea that even back in the 1960s and 70s you know the Air Force and the military had

58:20deployed the DSP Defense Satellite Program to look for stuff that was being launched by our adversaries from Earth just satellites sitting in space looking back at Earth and even then there were DSP moments in history confirmed by Ron Regare a guy who worked for the company that was busy monitoring the data from the DSP system and one of these incursions where an object came within view of the DSP system was synchronized with the Iranian Tehran UFO encounter that happened in 1976 which is almost exactly 50 years ago at the time we're speaking it's fascinating half a century ago your documentary asserts that there was a correlation between what Ron Regare reports a DSP satellite recorded something anomalous and this event on the ground in Tehran.

59:28Yeah so it would allude to the idea that maybe there is an extraterrestrial visitation theory that's possible here that things are coming from deep space because they're coming from you know off-world sources like alien visitors to Earth. I know that there's been a lot of investigation into our oceans recently but the oldest remaining theory with uphologies what Stan Friedman was championing which is the extraterrestrial visitation hypothesis and I think the sort of space-based stuff could be proof of that and you know even the STS mission 48 where we see what looks like an object approaching Earth and then something firing upon that object in the foreground and then we see to what looks like cylinder type objects could be missiles

1:00:31could be proof of like a possible alien spacecraft capture attempt you know to shoot down. Now the STS 48 case is a case I'm personally very interested in because it involves the weird looks like beams or some kind of targeted perhaps missiles I don't know what they are that you see beams of light coming towards the object and it flits away. We've covered this previously on reality check and I'm interested in it because the alleged source of those beams of light is northwest Australia and it has been suggested to me that it might have some correlation to a base called the Harold Holt Naval Communications Station where I do believe there were activities ongoing there when it was an American controlled base until 1991 where the Americans were using potentially experimental technology and it's interesting because there's never been an

1:01:33explanation for the STS 48 incident. I know James Oberg the noted debunker has tried to suggest they were ice crystals what do you think of that explanation ice crystals being pushed by a thruster from the shuttle. I think it's very possible that there are water dumps and ice crystals floating in space that get highlighted by the sun and look anomalous especially in the far looking forward looking ultraviolet cameras that they're using there which also look like fleer video technology but I don't think it's all space ice or debris and and junk like James Oberg has alluded to in every single post on these types of videos that have gone public from NASA's space cameras. There's another case that Ron Raguer the arrow jet subcontractor told you

1:02:34about in your first Walker's film. Fifth of May 1984, defense satellite program Flight 7 which is probably the pivotal fast walker case and it described a DSP satellite detecting an object that approached to within approximately three kilometers which in space is nothing with the encounter lasting nine minutes and Raguer basically described it as having a 9000 kilowatt infrared intensity and says that the star tracker on the satellite first detected it approaching from deep space. So this is an apparently intelligently controlled object navigating to very very close to a human satellite and being recorded by that satellite. Do you have any prosaic explanation for what that could be? Does I mean my logic would tell me that that's either a non-human spacecraft

1:03:37or examples of our space technology capturing possibly a secret space program sort of object that is off record and you know maybe NASA has also captured evidence of that when they have had UFO encounters in space but it's an example of like a black budget or off the record project being captured by a public research administration right. But crucially just to underline what Mr. Raguer said the implications of what he's saying are that an object originated in deep space past exactly three kilometers from the earth-based satellite that it maneuvered it changed course. Yes. It then returned to deep space. It had a full nine minute trajectory that was recorded by the satellite and analysts exhausted all conventional explanations they just couldn't come up with a prosaic

1:04:43explanation for whatever that object was. Yeah so something possibly came and checked out the planet and left. I mean how do we know that's not going on all the time? We're just not the public's not privy to that data. It really Ron Raguer leaked that data from the company that he was working for. Did it cause him grief in his career? As far as I can tell no he did it in a way that it couldn't like he took it. It was not classified information so he was smart about it. You mentioned earlier the STS-29 March 1989 incident where there was a shuttle transmission, a radio transmission from the shuttle and it was rendered in transcript as saying Houston we still have an alien spacecraft under observance and this is in your film. Do you believe that

1:05:48sentence did pass the lips of a crew on that shuttle STS-29? Yeah so at the time the astronaut that's fabled to have said that was John E. Blaha and one of the cool scientists I got to work with on this documentary was Jack Cashier who is a professor emeritus out of Omaha State University for physics and he had been contracting for NASA when this information came out. So he wrote to people within NASA and presented this data to them. They said that that was not John Blaha because you need at the time you needed 13 words to complete a full voice analysis in comparison. I'm sure with AI and everything now today you probably only need like three words but NASA denied that that

1:06:50was John Blaha. He never said that he said it but I think that that's just part of the game. Some astronauts won't talk about this I mean even we're lucky in 2005 that Leroy Chow said he saw these lights while he was doing a spacewalk that looked like a triangle formation that went over his head and off into space. There is another one of these cases STS-73 by shuttle mission 73 is more interesting linguistically because it seems pretty clear that an astronaut called Katie Coleman is heard saying quote we have an unidentified flying object. Has NASA disputed that she said that? Yes they have they just say that was not from our flight mission you know they never admit to these things taking place. Sure as hell sounds like who's saying it. Yeah

1:07:54definitely does and that likewise with John Blaha I mean if you compare his voice to all of his public speaking events right up to you know that proclaiming that they have an alien spacecraft under observance it's the same voice. Your film actually notes that the communications then disappeared on the public system and you suggested that the discussion may very well have been switched onto an encrypted department of defense communications channel. We do know don't we that those DOD comms channels existed on the shuttle missions. 100% and even going back to the Apollomand missions there was a encrypted channel that was not the public channel which they would broadcast for PR and you know marketing of this amazing space race that was going on. That was the medical channel and John Surnin discusses that in last man his book because at the time during

1:09:02Apollo 17 just before he took off I think it was black September it was a terrorist group that said they wanted to kill John Surnin and his family. So he talks in that book about how they would switch to the medical encrypted channel to speak with his family back on earth when he wanted to check in with them via deak slate and another astronaut that was you know doing his position supporting the mission from the ground. So they've always had encrypted channels that the military and Capcom or NASA had access to but the public didn't. So I think we're building a case here Darcy from the films that you've done not just about the cosmic corners you say the people who make grandiose claims about a secret space program. I think we are building a case that there's certainly a cover up going on inside the civilian space mission NASA and the Department of Defense about

1:10:02the full extent of what they know is going on in space. Would that be a fair summary? I would say that's a fair summary. I would say even if you look at the way NASA has interfaced with the UAP subject in recent years post-2017, their panels have been full of experts and scientists that just want to debunk prevalent UAP videos that have gone public. And that tends to be their stance even going back to 1959 when NASA was first formed. Now I want to go out with one of the final cases that you talk about, STS-80 November, December 1996. And I actually think this case deserves more attention than most of the shuttle imagery. The documentary you made shows several sequences where there are luminous objects, apparent formations of these objects, and they're appearing above

1:11:03thunderstorms. And basically it looks visibly like their behavior is incompatible with the normal explanation, which is ice particles, those incredible ice particles. They just get everywhere. The gremlins. Again, the main scientific obstacle here is that they're at a distance, but it's impossible without stereo imaging, parallax, focus range information, or independent tracking to distinguish what they were exactly. But I just wanted to leave our viewers with the thought of having looked at what you cite here in the documentary. There is an important 2026 development. The current US government pursue release includes three NASA files explicitly entitled STS-80 Unidentified Object Image 1, Image 2, and Image 3. And it lists the location as low earth

1:12:04orbit. I think that's worth highlighting. It doesn't mean NASA has authenticated an extraordinary vehicle, but it does mean that imagery long discussed in the UFO literature is now explicitly being curated in a US government UAP disclosure system as unidentified object imagery. Dasey, we thank you so much for joining us here on Reality Check. It's been fun. Yeah, it's been great. Catching up with you Ross. I really appreciate having me on. I will just mention people can watch all that stuff that we've discussed on YouTube movies for free. The secret space UFOs, docs that I've got on there. Unfortunately, Dark Alliance got taken off of 2B for free. It is still available on Amazon Prime. If people want to go watch it there, leave a

1:13:04review. Please support my work. And I have a new film out now called The Drifting Files, which you can find on Apple TV. And we discuss with comedies some interesting stuff regarding the NASCA mom these cases. But yeah, definitely I'm very independent. I appreciate people support, comments, feedback. You can find me on Amazon Prime, 2BTV, YouTube movies to name a few. Dasey, we're thank you so much for joining Reality Check. Thank you. And of course, if any of you want to ask us questions, you can send your questions to realitycheck at newsnationnow.com. And of course, you can listen to our shows now on all good audio platforms, including audible and Spotify, because too much reality check is barely enough. Thank you

1:14:04very much.