The Grand UFO Deception

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2:05Milo's pro rewards members save more with member volume discounts on eligible orders through a quote of $2,000 or more plus save time with job site delivery and select purchases. Not a member, join for free today. Exclusions, more terms and restrictions apply can be combined with any other discount, including but not limited to contract and or special price loyalty program subject to terms and conditions details at lows.com slash terms subject to change. This is an Alien UFO podcast classic episode and I'm your host Simon Bound. There are a number of UFO episodes that I released on the podcast a few years ago that fill of great information and I thought it would be a good idea to share them for listeners who may have missed them the first time around. This week I'm talking to Philip Kinsella about his book, You, The Public Deceived, The Grand UFO Deception. Philip Kinsella is an author, a UFO researcher, an abduction

3:07experiencer and he has a psychic medium and clairvoyant. He co-hosts a radio show with his twin on the paranormal UK radio network. It's called Twin Souls and it is broadcast monthly. Hi Philip, thanks a lot for coming on the podcast. Thank you very much Simon for inviting me on board. It's wonderful. Thank you. Now your book, You, The Public Deceived, The Grand UFO Deception. Basically what do you mean by the grand UFO Deception? Well first of all I will state for the record that I didn't want anything to do with ufology or studying UFOs or indeed aliens as we call them. But event in 1989 triggered something of monumental importance and trying to connect the dots with so-called alien abductions. The book itself that was published to the esteemed Philip Mentals Flying Dispressed, Philip is a mentor to myself and my twin brother. The title itself,

4:07The Public Deceived, what we have been deceived and I think that on a majority of the cases that we've dealt with in the past and very good cases, a system that we serve as termists said, no they're not interested, it's all a load of rubbish. But I also believe that now that things are progressing especially with the admittance through the Pentagon as of late, I think the phenomena itself also deceives the public. So we've not only got the system that we serve that's been deceiving us into untruths and telling us that we're all barking up the wrong tree, but we also have the phenomena itself that is elusive, that we can't catch, that seems to hide in the shadows. And so I wanted to address most of these events and the way it is in this book that I wrote a few years ago now. And so it's not like a conspiracy theory book where it's all about government deceiving the public because you're talking about the phenomena's deceptive.

5:10Yeah, I mean the government have deceived us, I mean for the uofologist, the dedicated uofologist, it's like walking through a swamp, we've got to be careful as well too because we do have some people that like us about certain experiences or UFO encounters as well as the system telling us, no, they don't exist, turn the other way, you know, pay taxes, do as told, and then die. And also the phenomena. So I wanted to integrate part of a theoretical model that I created near the end of the book to try to show people that it's not as simple as we first thought, especially going back into the late 1940s and the 50s and 60s where a lot of the general public assumed through media interpretation that we were dealing with spacecrafts coming from physical planets, I'm not disputing that. But the more that this phenomena evolves, the more complex it becomes. And especially with regards to the abduction of phenomena and most notably by what

6:12have known as the grays, as which are very famous now within the annals of uphology, especially within the advent of the ex files and so forth. So that's primarily why I wanted to kind of like get my foot in the door by acknowledging the UFO field investigations, but also trying to take my research into a slightly different area to show people that, you know, let's look at this or let's look at that because for so long we haven't made any real advancement towards what we're dealing with. You have a lot of information in your book about grays and they seem because there are reports that they're kind of robotic in a way and almost like they're just genetically engineered biological robots. But then I hear about tall grays as well that maybe they're the original aliens. Well, you know, some uphologists have it all worked out. They'll tell you how it is. But the reality of the situation is we don't know. We still have a blank page, but we can at least theorize. And I have to say it in this world today, having an idea or an

7:15opinion can be very dangerous grounds. But my idea of the grays, I mean, I had an experience that was a very negative experience back in the winch of 1989 at that point. I cannot document the experience that it happened because I had no way of knowing that anyone would be interested or that I would go to anyone about it. But the experience itself actually demonstrated two parts to the phenomena. One appeared on a physical level and the other happened on a non-physical level, even though I was still in what I considered to be in a conscious state. And I thought, well, is this how the abduction occurs? And if this is how the abduction itself occurs, whoever or whatever is behind it, then it clearly demonstrates that, you know, the what where we were once in believing that you people were kidnapped in physical spaceships now is brought into question. And this is where a lot of the research I've done

8:18about near-death experience and how also the abduction phenomena seems to mirror that event, although they're separate, and perhaps how the grays are able to integrate themselves into our reality. As for them being robots, they well could be robots. We're told by some people that they're us from the future. We're told that they're evil spirits, the gin, and he goes on. But, you know, my understanding of a species that themselves cannot create and they're interested in some type of hybridization program, that's suspect to me. And I started looking into that, especially after the advent of that what they call alien abduction back in 1989. And that's literally how I started to try to put some of the dots together with regards to what we may or may not be dealing with. Well, there's a question that comes up that I think about. I don't think I've ever asked somebody this. Is this idea that if you and me went to another planet and say that the oxygen was fine,

9:24the gravity was fine, the air pressure was fine. But when the second we stay about the space graph, there's all kinds of alien diseases and viruses and we die pretty quickly. So how is it that we hear these reports of these ET's and they could be Nordics or reptilians or grays? They seem to be walking around Earth just fine. Yes, well, you know, that is a very interesting speculation. And this is something that my brother and another researcher had a little chat about, not that long ago. And the way that I see it is that if you think about these UFOs or UAPs now and I identified aerial phenomena, same thing in my books, they've just tried to make it more scientific within its approach. That they seem to come into our dimension very easily and then go out so someone's turned out to light. And I am under the opinion that perhaps we may be dealing with instrumental entities. Now, let me give an example of what that means. If you take your mobile

10:30phone that you have as an example, you have the physical embodiment of the mechanism, you can hold it, you can touch it. The phone is powered by a little bit of energy to give it, you know, it boost and it also has a signal that is sent through to the device that carries information. And that information that's moving through the ether and connecting with your device, you know, cannot be destroyed, cannot be burned or bent or captured in any way. And I think as human beings that we, there are two elements to us rather like there is to a mobile phone, you've got the physical hardware and the non-physical piece that connects through to it. The same with us as being a biological, you know, mechanism here as humans. And we have consciousness that seems to work through us or in my idea is consciousness is filtering through this body through a temporary blank canvas to record memory, to record experiences. And my understanding is without getting involved

11:32with the religious ideologies, it's quite simple as that when we finished collating or building these experiences, when we die, that that information is sent back to the core essence of what we're all part of. And that core essence may actually expand upon the process of creation. We don't know, it's just a theory, but it makes a whole lot of sense to me. Now, other people can actually, with your phone, your mobile phone integrate with that or into link with it without you even knowing. And I think that it's possible that certain aspects of the phenomena that we call the supernatural, paranormal, uophology are able to interlink with us in much the same way in the sense that they can interlock within our consciousness and then connect with us that way. Because within uophology, what you find is that when UFOs come into an area, there is a distortion of time and sometimes space. People report not seeing cars or there's no people. It feels as though like

12:38the air feels empty or as like it's just snowed. And I feel what's happening is that the object in that sense of the word is integrating into our reality and bringing the personal person's into that vibration frequency as this is occurring. Where reductions happen, it seems that the phenomena seems to operate on a much deeper level of conscious integration and thereby overriding the reality and sense of time for the individual as this is occurring. What's interesting, we just spoke briefly about what you do, Simon, in your work and going into retrieving memory. A lot of people who have abductions find it very difficult to recall the experience. I'm not saying that occurs with everyone, but it could be possible that because the person has been temporarily removed from its normal time space locale, that when it's removed from that, that anything that occurs

13:38within the interim is very hard for the individual to recall. And then until they come back again, and then of course the whole experience comes in fits and parts within the mind. That's held within the deep levels of the subconscious mind. So, although it sounds a bit complicated, I believe that there is an interdimensional hypothesis, a link here with regards to most of this phenomena. And if we also look at other areas of the paranormal, especially within and not only limited to the national parks in America, where we hear all these strange disappearances and people going missing and found the most gruesome circumstances, we hear a lot about a sass squash and we hear a lot about the dogman, the werewolves. And of course, park rangers are not allowed to speak about most of what goes on there in the numerous occasions that these strange things happen. But again,

14:42we're told that those that you go through these experiences, those that survive better is, I'm not alarming anyone. I'm not stopping people from going to the national parks, but because most of the time people are okay. But a lot of research from other researchers has indicated that when they feel the presence of something around them, they feel like they're being watched, it feels like nature starts to stop. They can't hear sounds and they're normally smells associated with this. And occasionally the person or persons who are being targeted, I would call targeted, then seem to go off in a world of their own. So it's interesting, isn't it? We said before, where are these reptilians? Where are the grays? Where are the tall grays? Where are they? The Yeti, sass squash, or the werewolves dogman, where are they? And it's clear to see from our current understanding that perhaps they could be coming through portals. Because for so many decades,

15:44I was under the impression that we were dealing with actual physical creatures, and they are physical when they come into our reality, and when they go out, they become a wave. So this is where I understand it. And there's that thing that they're all humanoid. It seems weird. If we evolved on this planet, two arms, two legs ahead in the body, and then we see these ET's that are pretty much the same. It's almost like they're copying us. Maybe they choose to present themselves like that. Exactly. And that opens another question. And sorry, I seem to miss a little bit of what you said about diseases. Absolutely. Because if they were biological entities that came from another star system, unless they knew about the inhumanity to that, they'd all might have some illness or disease that we carry or we from them. But that doesn't seem to happen. And I think that's very interesting to speculate with regards to why do they appear like us? Two legs, two arms.

16:50I've spoken to other researchers about this, most notably Paul Sinclair here in England, a marvellous researcher and author. And he's been doing a lot of research into the air of Benton, not only into the light phenomena, UFOs, but also with the cryptids. And one of the things that we thought about, and he thought about, and we've heard a lot about, is that most of these locations that carry these portals where these beings appear, some of these locations have very odd names. So in effect, we have to also look at the fact that perhaps have we created the phenomena through spell or spelling. And I think that the phenomena is much older, much, much older than we ourselves are. And yet the phenomena seems to morph continuously as though evolving on a more modern or technologically advanced look or

17:51feel to it. And I always think of, I know it sounds crazy, but Stephen King, we all know is the most amazing horror writer. I always think of his it because my brother and I had a discussion once about it as Stephen King's it. Have you seen the films Simon? From kick off to the final whistle, trade the biggest moments in football on Koushi, America's number one prediction market platform. Detroit is currently trading at 58% to beat Carolina, meaning a $100 trade pays out $167 if they win. Download Koushi, use code Hoops to get $25 when you trade $25 KALSHI. Koushi, trade what's next? 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Event contract trading and volsaurus can may not be suitable for all investors. Koushi products are not available in all jurisdictions. Prices, values and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information see koushi.com slash regulatory. By the time I have actually, well in the film and most notably in his book, basically there is

18:54this clown that appears and children go missing and the clown entices the children, gets them on their own. But the clown can also morph into the child's worst nightmare because the clown feeds from the children. But what they find later on through the book is that it's not the clown. The clown is million extension but some extraterrestrial force that's ancient and been hiding in a wake every 40 years to feed. So I kind of like said to my brother, I said, oh, we're dealing with one force in its entirety that's creating all of these images, all of these beings that present themselves to us individually in varied forms. Or are we actually dealing with werewolves and with Sasquosh and with Gray Aliens? It's something that is open to debate. And as I said before, unfortunately, and it has to be said within the annals of your apology, we have to be very open and also very careful. I certainly don't have anything worked out. I

19:57have a few theories of my own. But as I said before, you'll get those who will tell you what it is and how it is. But every single time that we look for the evidence that we look for the proof to categorically state or confirm that yes, the Gray Aliens are real, the reptilians are real, the Sasquosh and the dogman werewolves are real. There's nothing. They leave physical marks, sometimes traces, and certainly in very rare cases, raw evidence of where people have been murdered. I'm talking about the werewolves and the dogman within the national parks as unbelievable as that is. But as to them, they seem to just disappear as though they're smoke. And going back to what you said about the phenomena kind of evolving over time, if we look back in the forties and it seems like the technology, like say if we talk about the

21:01contact ease, which I think was the fifties, if they were real and these people weren't hoaxing, they kind of had technology that was almost recognizable that was just out of reach of human level. And then Betty and Barney Hill, they technology was a bit further from them and it's kind of like the theater of the abduction where you're being presented of technology that you can almost kind of recognize. Yes, absolutely, like architects of the mind. I think this is a fascinating subject, but also very tedious in trying to determine what it is that we're actually dealing with. And because we have separated each a phenomena into varied boxes, most people believe that werewolves are one of their own and that Sasquosh is one of its own and that the grays are coming from another planet or wherever, hyperspace or interventionally. But I'm not so sure because when you have an

22:03experience, when you've I had an abduction, what they call an abduction back in 1989, there may have been several others, but I can only document what I recall. I won't add or subtract anything. When I had that experience back in 1989, there were two parts to it. And the abduction itself was where I found myself being taken through the doors, the glass doors to the house. Now that's almost that is almost impossible. And then you have people telling you, well, it's because the grays are using some type of teleportation technology. Well, fine. If that's the case, why can't they just take you straight up to their ship instead of dragging you through places. And why in a lot of instances did the grays have to be in close proximity to the individual where the abduction is being initiated? Now, where let's take the grays, for example, without composing matters with all the other cryptids that we've spoken about. If we take the UFO

23:05Department of Study and certainly with regards to the grays, my understanding is that what they may be doing is that they may have upped their abduction program. You mentioned Betty and Barney Hill. And yes, the encounter in New Hampshire in 1961 with regards to this sweet couple who had seen a physical UFO come down. And I like the way you describe that Simon in terms of like slightly more modern and acceptable to what we could understand as a flying machine or a spacecraft of some kind. But there again, you see there was another part to their experience where after the beeps were heard on their car, they couldn't recall anything. So, extensively, their abduction, they couldn't remember until they started coming through in dream state, which means that the grays themselves, or we have to be careful because it wasn't exactly the grays that had abducted Betty and Barney country to popular belief. Betty Hill was, you know, saw them in a better light than that.

24:11But whatever they were, they were able to secrete themselves some of the deep recesses of human mind, so they're covering the experience itself. And most people say always because they don't want to, you know, there's this ruling that they're not allowed to interfere. Well, rubbish, they've already done that. And if you think about it, those beings that came for Betty and Barney, when they showed Betty the star map, that she recalled and that Marjorie fish had brilliantly constructed through beads before they found the star system Zeta reticuli. I doubt very much that those aliens had traveled all that way from Zeta reticuli just to abduct a dear sweet Mary coupled. I find that very hard to believe. And one of the other interesting parts to that experience with Betty and Barney Hill was when they were having their medical examination. And Barney, of course, was separated from Betty being examined separately and after Betty had had her examination. And one of the examiners came in and tried to take a teeth out because they found

25:16that Barney had false teeth and they couldn't understand why someone was wearing, you know, false teeth and Betty had to explain to them, you know, some people they have false teeth because they are the lucid teeth. And so that was very curious because this may have been the first time that these beings had abducted a couple, one of which Barney was wearing dendoshes. So, you know, they obviously weren't aware too much of our physiology at that stage. And I think back in the 1950s, certainly in the 50s and 60s, it was far easier for these intelligences to abduct someone because a lot of the places where, you know, we didn't have mobile phones to film things or cameras. It was very hard to get hold of a big camera to film. But now in the event that we have evolved technologically, Simon, I think that the phenomena has realized that, you know, it may be a little bit difficult for us now. So we're going to have to up the program.

26:17Let's do it now so that we can actually take the people through walls and doors, that we can bring them into our space and to our time. So, you know, I think that the way that we see this is from the 1940s, which you correctly stated, you know, and going even further back, the UFOs appeared as derigables. And then there's ghost rockets. And there's flying sources. And then there's triangles. I mean, as we advance as a species technologically, what next is on the agenda? We don't know. Yeah, maybe like something that's invisible, that declokes, and it's some weird, weird shape. Hmm, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, we, you know, this is why, I think, and you've got to give it to, you know, the world's best researchers or the world's best thinkers with regards to this subject matter is that, you know, all of us, even those of us that, you know, are trying to dig for our own answers. And we have the help of those wonderful minds within the world as well.

27:19You know, it was scratching our heads because we're like, well, this doesn't seem to make any sense. And when we do try to make sense of it, it changes again. So, you know, are we dealing with a force which is perhaps moving us or deliberately wanting us to move us into and away from the ways that we had been where we, you know, found it very difficult to advance into an age where we can advance now. Now, I, there's a lot of talk about the grays being AI material. That would not surprise me either. Because, you know, if we were on the other side of the universe somewhere, the best thing that we could do is send out space probes or robots to go look for life. But the only problem with that is that we hear that these AI grays are interested in the human soul. So, how far does that technology go in terms of intelligence where it's looking for a human soul? I have a hard time dealing with that, but not so much another area of research that we can

28:24contemplate with regards to what the grays could ultimately represent and why it is that they have this interest in human reproduction, i.e. in terms of the hybridization program. Now, when I was abducted, I didn't see any hybrids. None of that was shown to me. It was more of an examination than anything. It was very intrusive. But we do hear reports of these hybrids, you know, that are seen onboard these so-called crafts and that the human females who have, you know, once were pregnant when they were abducted and then they lose the child, then find themselves having to bond with the hybrid. Well, that's very strange because it's almost as if the grays are one trying to create a new genus and that they want a human to show this hybrid affection. The grays, I feel, don't have any understanding of time, of color, of taste, of smell, of love. It feels as though

29:25they are robots, but I think they're much more than robots, in my opinion, with regards to that question. Maybe that the hybrids are just part of a program that's been going for thousands of years and that we are, as we are now, we're hybrids in a way and that they've controlled evolution of mankind right from the beginning and we're only halfway through the program. Absolutely. Again, I am open to all forms of speculation. That is another area that we have to look at in terms of human genus, our creation. And I do believe, like many others, that the Sunday school version that we've been given is not the correct version of events. And if the grays were our architects, they were creating a new species, perhaps as a human race. When you look at us as humans, we've never got on and people raise their arms up in shock and horror saying, how a day you say that, but we're not a nice species.

30:27People don't know how to treat one another or we're almost people are interested in this power position and control. And also, we haven't done very well in looking after the planet. So is it possible that the grays are creating a new species that is able to survive in another part of another hyper dimension or dimensional or another universe? We don't know. There is that to speculate. But my own opinion is that the grays appear to come across as rather nefarious in nature and they don't seem to know how to treat us even if they were the creators as their livestock, you know, or as their creation as it were. They're not very understanding of what we are. It wouldn't surprise me at all if in reality we have been created by another form of extraterrestrial intelligence and that grays themselves are or seem very interested in this process of replication which they themselves cannot do in the biological sense

31:31because we as humans create through impregnation and you know, a child is born and I believe that on a spiritual level, if I dare use that word, my understanding is that we all come from source. We've had past lives, maybe not just here, but elsewhere. And as we come in as the soul comes into the birthing cycle, it carries memories from its original location from the other side that are like your mobile phone dormant. You don't have access to them because as we're born into this life and we move through this life, we create new memory, a new canvas of experience. And when we pass over, perhaps all of those memories from past present and future are all joined together. Now, can I give an example here Simon, what I mean about the grays? Oh yeah, yeah. If I cloned you Simon in a laboratory, let's say I made 10 copies of you,

32:35literally done it and those copies didn't come through the normal birthing process of you as you have. When you pass over, you're not going to go anywhere yet, I hope. But when you pass over, you will carry the sum total of all that you've been and ever will be because you've been brought through the birthing cycle and the natural way. Your clones, we can theorize, will only have the memory of one single physical incarnation. So that when they die, their signature, their spark of awareness, their soul for one's of a better word, may not be strong enough to enter where you've gone. Now, if the grays have replicated themselves on this enormous level of cloning, then it could be possible that they have a spark of awareness and just that and that they want something more, they want to be part of creation again. And is it possible that they're finding this or doing this through the hybridization program secretly? Now, there are a number of researchers who

33:40have their own opinion. I did meet Dr. David Jacobs many years ago, a charming man. And his research is very interesting about when he deals with the regression and what a lot of his clients bring through and his belief is that they are here among us and living among us that we wouldn't detect them and the idea is that they're wanting to take over the world. Now, I respect that totally completely. Then you have other researchers who, when they regress their clients, they kind of like come out with a different story. So my idea is, is the phenomena itself working through the regressionist and the people in order for them to bring out these conflicting stories so that no one will be able to nail what and who they are and where they come from. So this is another area of deep contemplation that I've kind of looked at and discovered I'm writing about at the

34:44moment with regards to this, you know, slight contradiction. The phenomena is real. It occurs, it happens. The regressionist is doing only what they're doing to better aid the individual who's had the abduction. But it's interesting how researchers seem to be locked into their own belief systems of what they believe is going on and then even then if they're regressionists, the person starting to link with one after another after another of this whole agenda plan that's very different from someone else. Do you see what I mean Simon? Yeah, and I also wonder about the questions they ask. I heard that Bad Hopkins, if the client said anything at all that was remotely spiritual, his reaction was, I don't know, we're not going there, well, I'll take you down this other path, ask your other questions. And so they might come up with their different conclusions because they have different beliefs in the first place and the way they question them.

35:44Absolutely, and this is the problem and they're doing everything right from their ends, they're doing what they feel is right. No criticism to them whatsoever. There were brilliant people amazing, amazing souls, but this is the problem. And I found that back in 1996, I was very proud, Simon has punched to have had my very first article published. So from 1989 through to 1996, I kept working out of trying to puzzle over how it was. I was the grace were able to take me through solid matter or I assumed where the grace they were on board, what I call a ship or a craft. I couldn't work out what it was, what how they did it. And I remembered very clearly that in the early part of 1996, I was at work and I was at work more times than not, you're doing a job you don't really want to do. Just doing it because you've got to do it. I mean, lovely to find a job you really love and get paid for it. But I was just doing my and then all of a sudden it was

36:49as if the only way I can explain it is the only time it's ever happened, but it felt like my mind had opened and that the answer that I was looking for was there. And you know, I heard people saying, oh, they've had this download or that download and years before I'm ashamed to say, I used to think it was all a load of our rubbish. But when you've had the experience, it opened something to me and I remembered it was about the grace and about what they were doing and the program and I wrote it all down. I got the whole thing down on the piece of paper. I was accelerated and I couldn't wait to get home and I typed the whole thing up. I think it took several reruns with it. But then I submitted it to a magazine here in England, a well-known one at the time called Alien Encounters and they published it in was it September, October of 1996. I can't remember. Anyway, they called it Spirits in a Material World. And I don't know how people found it. They called it Revolution

37:51with Inspeculation, but I don't think many of you have followed just at that point. We're really interested or looking into the spiritual aspects of the phenomena. But I think it's a very crucial aspect to what we're dealing with because we as human beings don't at this present time know for a fact of what we really are, where we really come from. And the question of God and the afterlife also comes into this equation. And when you look within our human history and in varied culture's traditions, they have variations of a story they're saying that kind of like takes us down a road of like some kind of supernatural activity that occurred, but it's been changed through writings and belief through the times. So we don't really know what we represent. But my understanding is that before we start looking into the air of the abductions, we haven't even found enough answers about what we are. And why it is that these so-called

38:56extraterrestrial intelligences are so interested in us as a productive species. Now their agenda as well, the Graze agenda, we go back to the Graze here, is kept secret. They don't want their the abductees or the contactees to know what's really going on. And if they do, and it's been proven that more times than not, they lie to the person, especially where prophecy is concerned or in terms of making the individual feel very important. And this is very disturbing territory. So a lot of people believe that the Graze are love and light. I'm not disputing that it could be different or very factions of Graze, but I can only talk from experience. And what we're seeing here is an example of something that's hidden. And then you go into areas of why it is the system we serve

39:57within our best interest apparently. They have been silent about it. So are we being protected by something that the system knows but doesn't want us to know so to speak? That is a very interesting speculation indeed. And I think that's another area that will have to be addressed and have to be opened when and if the system we serve is willing to open up all that it knows about the phenomena itself. Not just what it's learned secretly from other researchers in these UFO conferences and all the, you know, the things we're going to the past, it still happens but what they know what's really going on. Now that would be interesting when they're people talk about disclosure a lot. And I've always wondered whether it's actually the it's the ETs that are in charge of disclosure and they've told the governments don't you dare disclose this. Otherwise we're going to do something really bad. You wouldn't like

40:57yes absolutely. And why not? I mean, you know, we are left with conspiracies and conspiracies are absolutely brilliant for those higher echelons in command because it covers all their tracks. You know, conspiracy is a bit is merely a way of, you know, deflecting attention, of turning the finger and of doubt upon the inquiring mind, making the believe it's not true. It's rather like Chris Carter's the ex files. He did a brilliant job in those I think. Every time Molderen Scully was so near to the truth, they ended up they were left with nothing and they were told as much as well. And I think that, you know, in a tug-and-cheek fashion, conspiracy certainly works for the system because they're able to do anything they want. And that's how they like it. They like things to be mixed up. They don't want any clarity in a situation none at all. They like the waters to be muddy. Did it happen? Didn't it? What about this? We'll throw that in there as well too. Let them have that. So they haven't helped the situation or the cause at all. And now certainly within the pentagons, kind of like tongue-in-cheeked

42:03mittens that we may be dealing with something that is an aerial phenomena and has told every research on the planet that it's real. And this is what we've been saying for countless years, for decades. But no, now they're coming forward and saying, oh, there may be something to it. We'll look into it. Rubbish. They've been looking into it already. I'm not saying the government because they're puppets to their masters. But certainly very most certainly secret military industrial complex units, which are perhaps be more interested in this and research it far more than we are aware of. So that's my take on that. Disclosure. You know, why can they come forward and say, yes, ladies and gentlemen, UFOs or UAPs are real. We don't know what they are. We don't know where they come from. Forget this whole thing about foreign technology being involved like China or whoever. Well, that's a full-gone conclusion because if one of those states was really in the

43:08hands of this superb technology, which appears like magic, they would have conquered the world by now. So, you know, all this rubbish that we're being fed and told, I don't think disclosure is going to come in the way that we expected to. And I certainly feel it's going to be a very painful experience for us to walk through ourselves. Yeah, I think it's something that Whitley Striever said. Nothing. Might have got it from somewhere else that if disclosure happens, it won't be stranger than you imagine. It will be stranger than you can imagine. Well, Whitley Striever is himself a brilliant man, an amazing author, written the most amazing books and, you know, contributed to a lot of film work. So, what he says goes, you know, in terms of that, he's the person that would know more than a lot of people because he has his contacts. I've never spoken to the gentleman himself, but I certainly am aware of all of his work, a brilliant man. But I think that, you know, the more we look into this, it does turn out to be like magic. And I think that as a species ourselves as a human species,

44:13we haven't evolved to the point where we're supposed to evolve to. There's always something that's holding us back. And I think it's our very own people that's doing that. And perhaps there is a force of intelligence that's coming in and saying, hang on just a minute, you know, we're going to wake you up. You need to be waking up as a young developing species. You know, you've got to stop playing with your matches and you need to wake up. Now, that could be coming from, you know, the higher levels of contact that some people have within the uapology. I'm not talking about the other lower levels because there is a big huge gap within uapology. As I said before, I mentioned those that are love and light and those that are on the negative end of the spectrum. And I was unfortunately at one point many years ago, you're laugh at this. I was invited on a radio program. I didn't really want to go on because I wasn't really into super soldiers or anything like that. And I was put on this show. And thankfully, it was hitting air. And there was

45:19an American couple, a couple lovely. And they had everything worked out. The lady was being abducted every night of the week. And the gentleman had everything sorted with regards to her. Evolutionally, it all worked out. And the other guy from England was battling off-world reptilians. And I was standing in the middle thinking, oh my lord, you've got the good and bad. And they said, we're getting good and bad with each other. And I had to disappear from the show. It's like, oh my lord, I didn't know how to take it. But the guy, the American guy said to me, you know why you're negative? I said, I'm not negative. He said, do you know why you had a negative experience back in 1989? I said, he's a cajure negative person. And I said, hang on a minute, I'm the least negative person around. I'm just trying to understand what happened to me in still to this day. So I think I owe it, you know, although I say it very lightly, it wasn't until the advent of the 1989 event, the abduction that seriously got me involved with research. And then with the UFO group and they're

46:22meeting some extraordinary and amazing people. But then, you know, going further out and connecting with wonderful brilliant minds in the world to try and battle the big question, find the answer to the big question more looking for. So, you know, but there are people who will tell you how it is and what it is and that you're wrong. So it's something we just have to live with and of course your work suffers because of it because they want you to write what they believe. But this is the problem. Human belief system is so segmented. It's shattered. And you can't force someone else to believe in something if they don't want to believe in it. And this is the problem I think we're dealing with at the moment, especially where religion was concerned. A very touching, very difficult subject to address. But it's true with religious religion, religion and its ideologies. And I'm all for anyone believing anything. As long as that belief doesn't harm controller destroy people,

47:24I'm right behind there. But I think even now within the UFO movement, someone said I think it's like a religion. And I'm like, well, I don't kind of like subscribe to that entirely. But I know where they're coming from and what they mean. So it's a really taxing subject to deal with. But one that we're really excited to be looking into and formulating new conclusions, new theories, new ideas. And we now have to look outside the box of conventional thinking because I don't think we're dealing with actual physical matter in terms of the reality of this phenomena. I think it shapes itself, it molds itself in our in our reality. And then we translate it as we see it. And then it goes out again. So, you know, and I think that when it comes in, I suppose they can crash and then it, you know, whatever it is, whatever it's represented as as, it will physically integrate with our world. It has to temporarily before it goes out again. I've always thought with Roswell.

48:27And I do think something really happened there with some kind of craft. It just seems weird to me that they would crash. I kind of think that perhaps the craft, when we see those small discs or shaped ones that they might be like scout craft from a mother ship, the technology must be much better than ours. And it seems weird to me that one were crashing the desert near Roswell. And then they say there were alien bodies there and maybe one alive. And they were there for a few days. And I think, well, if they crash, doesn't the ETs have their own kind of ambulance service? Didn't they realize they crashed straight away and they could send another scout ship down? Absolutely. And very, very well constructed in your thinking, someone, I've got to say there because my brother has kind of like come up with a little theory with that in his book, The Digital Dean. Now Roswell, 1947, okay, with they're not quite specific about the date because they don't know how long the object was in the desert for. What I considered first of all was the fact that, you know,

49:33if this had been a top secret mogul weather balloon, as was stated, and not the original version of events because the army had admitted that they had in their possession a flying disc. And then they changed it, they retracted the whole news feature and said that, you know, it was a secret weather balloon, so secret in fact. But they weren't even out monitoring all cared where it was. You know, it took a rancher, Mac Brasel, a sheep farmer, bless him, who found pieces of the debris on his land. And it was only when he took it in to town and the show, the sheriff, the sheriff decided to contact the Ive department, who then went in and had a good look. Now, interesting. However, whatever happened, I myself believe that a craft of unknown origin and not from this world could have been interventional, I don't know, did crash. And interesting, we always

50:35thought that there would be a rescue mission or that another author, Don Schmidt, who's written many books, he's one of the leading authorities on Roswell, among with some other authors, wrote that he believed that another part of the main craft came away. And what you saw, there were two, they thought were two crashes was actually the actual UFO itself, the big craft, the mother ship, as you'd call it. And then the other part they found was the escape part with the the dead bodies and one living entity that was apparently discovered and taken back to base. And then taken away by the military. He states that in his research, a pound, he said that there was some kind of rescue attempt because other ranchers had seen these strange flashing blue lights across the desert land as they were looking for something. So I agree with you why it didn't happen because the craft was there for some time. Some of the bodies were very badly decomposed,

51:39which means they were out in the elements for some time. And one of them had survived. We don't know how long that entity had survived for. But interesting. So, I think that my opinion is you hit these other stories saying all the army shot the UFO down. Well, even if they had, again, it wouldn't have been left. They would have gone straight in for the kill to get what they wanted and end a story, but they didn't. So did the beings themselves, as my brother has speculated, deliberately come down in the event that the army would eventually find it and take the debris and resources back for examination. Perhaps he thinks that's my brother, Ronald, to advance with our human achievements in terms of technology. Because if you look and see where we are now, Philip, major Philip Corsow wrote a book the day after Roswell and in that he amazingly,

52:42incredibly states that his department of inquiry were responsible for back engineering a lot of the stuff that was on board the craft they found on the Roswell craft that had helped towards our technological age. So, you know, it's very interesting. Was it used as a decoy by these intelligences to kind of like get their claws in into us and propel us as a species much quicker into an AI age? That's his opinion. But we still don't know. We've talked about so much stuff and we haven't even got to your abduction experience yet. I wanted to ask you about that. I've got a lot of questions, but was it a thing you got home from work? Yes, right. You're in the kitchen with your brother and sister and something happened. Yeah, yeah. I what happened was that it was winter. I didn't make a note of the time or the date. Unfortunately, because I'd gone through a lot of turmoil trying to get my head around what

53:42happened and wanted to forget it. But then of course another part of me wants to find out what happened. But literally I come back from work. I worked in town. So we lived in the village of mastermortaine then. We lived in a small cul-de-sac in quite a large house in a corner. And I'd had to get the train back because of that point I didn't drive. I do now those to get the train back from bed for Timilbrook at El Rickertial station. You had to walk a mile or so in some field across some fields to get to the village and then I got in. I got in. It must have been roughly about quarter past seven, ten past seven, quarter past past seven. And I walked up the driveway, walked in the house. We got glass, frosted glass, windows to the all the front, walked through the hall into the kitchen. And my brother was there to greet me along with our dog Benji and my sister. And I walked into the kitchen and lay back behind the kitchen bar. And the kitchen door was open so I could see out to the hall. And the hall is where I just come from

54:46where the frosted glass was. Now downstairs my brother and I straight ahead of the door should come in. If you keep moving forward, that was my brother's study stroke bedroom. We had a downstairs study stroke bedroom and a joining shower room, bathroom, and then of course the other bedrooms and everything were upstairs. So and there's a reason why I'm saying this. So I lay back against the cupboard. And my brother was standing in front of me in the dining area. So he couldn't have a view of the hall. He was looking at me and the dog was in front of the breakfast bar. My sister was to my far left by the conservatory. I don't know. We were talking about something getting a coffee and all of a sudden the atmosphere changed to so it became electric. I remember the hairs on my arm started to stand on end. And it was really weird. And the dog started to react to this. Benji started to growl. And you know when you get that spooked feeling like there's definitely something's happened but you can't explain what it is. Well my brother in front of me

55:48seemed to stiffen. And as this was happening it was all very quick. There was this light that came up from the driveway that I just come from. And it was coming towards the doors to the house. I just come through and I thought that my mom had finished her shift early and that she'd come up in the car the driveway. But then I realized the light was getting brighter and the dog started to even more. And my brother suddenly raised his head up to the ceiling and it looked like he was in a trance. I'm looking thinking what on earth is going on? And he said there's going to be an earthquake or grandma's going to die. Well there was certainly no earthquake and I'm a terminal grandmother then at that point was still very much alive. And as I'm looking the light is coming up to the door is seeming to incredibly bend the glass as though the glass has become rather like jelly. You know that when there's cartoons where you see something bending back

56:48and forwards that's what it was like. The dog was going crazy and in an instant there was this being it was like a small child like being it was very thin very diminutive it was all clad in black and it wore on its head. What I thought was a motorcycle helmet. Now it wasn't a motorcycle helmet in the sense that we would know I said motorcycle helmet. It's just the head was large it looked like it got something around its head and it was all black. I couldn't see any seams. I couldn't see any markings on it. It just came through the glass. The glass then return back to its normal normal state and the being ran ahead and disappeared into our study stroke bedroom. And I could see this through the hole and the dog was going mad and my brother snapped out of his trance and my sister was to my far left. I don't know what happened to her. She hadn't seen anything. My brother hadn't seen anything. The dog had and I did get a lot of

57:50loss on you know a television program about that but I'm sorry but the dog did. And then I said there's an intruder in the house and then I reached behind me to get the largest knife I could find and I screamed there's an intruder in the house. And when I looked to cross to the hall this thing whatever it was then ran from from the far left from the hall from our room across the hall and up the stairs and disappeared. Well we made a search of the house and we could find nothing absolutely nothing. And I remembered in the solace of that moment I sat down and I cried because I couldn't understand what happened. I didn't understand what that thing was. Why it came through the door? Where the light came from? Why the atmosphere changed? Why my brother went into a trance? It just didn't make any sense to me. And at this point within my life I was vaguely interested with UFOs because of another experience that happened with a maternal grandmother where my brother and I were 13 in middle sex, felt in middle sex when we stayed with them on a vacation period

58:56we used to save them all the time. They were like second parents to me and my brother. We're just about around a half time and we were going to be talking about your book, you, the public deceived the grand neurofod deception and we kind of went off track a bit. It's been great talking to you. Oh thank you. I've been very honoured and I'm so passionate about the subject and I have a lot of my peers, those within your apology to thank. I'm not boastful but there's a lot of top people out there that my brother and I are so warmed within our hearts to be enveloped within there. They're kind of like groups, their connections and it's so lovely to have their support as well in what we're looking for in the truth. People can get your book on Amazon. Oh yes. You have a new book. Is it going to be published this year? No it will be published next year. I have to complete it by, I want to get it completed by November. We're not doing too bad at the moment but that is about the grays and the darker side to

59:59the production phenomena which I'm looking into and also addresses set another fields of inquiry within the paranormal. So that will be out next year. Philip will decide what he wants to release, what date he wants to release that at that point. Fantastic and thanks again for coming on the podcast. Thank you very much Simon. It's been absolutely wonderful. Thank you. And that was an interview with Philip Kinseller about his book, You, The Public Deceived, The Grand UFO Deception. And if you want to hear Philip's full intense abduction experience, you'll need to sign up to Patreon for the extended episode. Just go to patreon.com forward slash alien UFO podcast. If you enjoy this podcast be sure to leave a review and be sure to subscribe and Apple podcasts, Spotify, or via your favourite podcast app to make sure that you don't miss out on any episodes. And thanks for listening.