Rings & Rituals - Season 2 Preview with Marilyn R. Pukkila

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1:03Welcome to the Lorehounds. I'm your host David. And on this episode, we are talking with our favorite Tolkien scholar and Lorehounds co-host Marilyn Arpequilla. Marilyn, how are you? Hey, David. I'm doing great. How about yourself? Good. Thanks. It's been a minute since we've had a chance to podcast you and I. Yes, it has. So much going on. So many different properties popping up all the place. Exactly. It'll be fun when we finally get the old bang gang back together again for rings of power season three. Very much looking forward to it. I was feeling guilty the other night because I'm trying to catch up on silo. Oh, good. I was thinking that I really need to start my rings of power rewatch so that I'm sort of refreshed on what's going on in the world of middle earth.

2:05But fortunately, we have the rings and rituals podcast to help us and keep us company. So the idea today was just for you and I did to chit chat a little bit about season two to make sure folks are aware of it. And we can talk a little bit about your plans for rings and rituals and then our plans for for season three rings of power coverage. But I'm just curious. How is it to be back into the full episode planning and all the work that it takes to actually put together the kind of podcast that you and Sarah are doing? Well, you know, the initial outlining process on the page is great. It's when you have to start tidying it up and putting spell correct back from Muriel to Muriel with sometimes I miss all those kinds of little details. And I will confess I was I was a tad nervous for the first episode. I don't think it really showed that much.

3:05But I feel like I'm definitely back into full swing now and having a great time and David, we're getting feedback. Amazing. Fantastic. I have this lengthy discursive analysis on orcs from one David more hand. Sorry. We have a lot of fun with that. No, no, no, no, don't be sorry. No, I would have liked to have been able to do the whole thing. But we I think we pulled out the salient points. You can tell me when it drops. And I really hope that you're going to do a blog for that because I think it's definitely blog material. That's interesting. I thought that far into it and when I was refining and just for folks to know, I was actually previewing episode one even before it went out. And I was in my yard doing some yard work as you do. And you were in Sarah. We're talking about how the south rons were branded as part of, you know, their sort of secret order or thing. And why orcs weren't being branded, but were humans were.

4:07And so I had this whole thought and I jotted down a whole bunch of notes. And I actually had written the email, but it sent it to the wrong email address. Like I had a wrong email address, my auto pop up thing. And so it balanced back. And then I read it and I was like, oh, thank goodness, it didn't send that original one. It was just ridiculous voice to text as I was in the yard because I was so like, oh, I have to say something. And so then as I'm writing it, I'm like, well, I need to like pick up on that angle. And I need to illuminate over this because the whole question around orcs and race and bio essentialism, there's some nuance in there. And there's some, there's a duty of care when we're talking about race and racism around the shows that we are watching. And so I wanted to be very careful. So I ended up being a much longer email. And then I had to throw in some like actual, you know, examples. And I had to have my examples, right? Because I'm writing an email to Marilyn and Sarah. Like God forbid, I get some, you know, details wrong. So yeah, I'm a little bit longer than I meant it to be.

5:10But I'm glad you were happy with it. So. Well, welcome to my world when it comes to voice dictation. Yes, exactly. Right? Especially with token in middle earth and, yeah, pronunciations and things like that. And I think I saw another fresh email coming today. I think Peter O'Hill sent in. Yes, yes, yes. So that is now in the outline for episode four, I think. Fabulous. Where should people send feedback if they have feedback for you and Sarah? Yes. Well, the email is ringsandritualsatthalorehounds.com. Great. You can go to the world, lorehounds page and there's a voice mail. So we could get voice mail as you could hear yourself on here, if you like. Right. And people can also just send in voice memos from their phone to that same email address. That works as well. Yeah. It's really simple and straightforward. And then there's also our discord channel, which is part of the lorehounds discord. I don't do you call it. You don't call it a story. It's a community. It's a server. Yeah, but it's the community. That's the word. Yeah, it's the community space. We kind of hold it.

6:10We kind of manage it and trust for the community, I guess, is a way that we could relate to it. Mm-hmm. So lots of possible ways to do that there. Right. And there's a whole channel set up just for ringsandrituals there. I see Philip is another content creator and he's been engaged a lot there, talking about that music and everybody's really been gaking out on his stuff. So that's very cool as well. Yes. Philip is podcasting via YouTube. I don't know what you call that too, podcasting or something now. I know. I know. I think it's just one extra layer in a bridge too far for me because podcasts are for when I have to cook. Exactly. You know, to my stretches and exercises. And I can't be bothered with images and that context. He is an excellent musician. He comes to us through Sigmund and he has a show. I'm going to get the name wrong. I believe it's the world and music of rings of power. And I like his analysis so that his method and we have exchanged messages of, yeah, it would be cool if you came on ringsandrituals, but it hasn't gotten any further than that.

7:12So stay tuned, folks. Right. Are you planning on any other guests this season? Well, you know, you and I had talked about you coming on and doing a sort of analytical framework around the difference between pain and the case vision of Middle Earth and Peter Jackson's vision of Middle Earth. You know who we should really talk to about that speaking of Sigmund again? Is it Amy? Who I did a course with. Sure. She did one on breaking down the visual language that you're seeing on stuff. I did a space. I went to space. Yes. I love space. I'm not going to space anymore. They had to ever learn now. It's called ever learning. No. Yeah. I'm not going to space. I'm sorry. They decided they had to shift it yet again. Okay. Well, anyway, and for people who don't know, Sigmund University is an accredited, is it an operates like an accredited institution? They have, do they have postdoc or they have master's level, master's levels? I don't, I think they want to do PhD.

8:13I don't know where they are in that process, but certainly they have been in the process. They're getting a accreditation for a couple of years now. Got it. You can take a full course with credits and with tutors and people to help review your writing, or you can just take a month-long course on any particular topic. They have dozens and dozens of faculty who are teaching in all areas, not just Tolkien. You know, Sigmund is more broad. I mean, they're about the literature of fantasy and imagination. So they cover the full range and it's worthwhile if you're interested in hopping onto their catalog and just seeing, you'll see a lot of familiar names there offering courses. And there might be something there that you didn't even know existed. If you would like to learn how to speak Anglo-Saxon, there are courses on Anglo-Saxon and other historical languages. So it's pretty wide-ranging. Yeah. It's very cool. I did a course earlier. I'm trying to find, yeah, it's called Ever Learn Now.

9:15And of course, you know, all the internet searching that was like, it's all very confusing. And it's not Amy. It was. I didn't think so. Maggie, isn't it? Yes. Yes, it was. Thank you. It was Maggie. And we talk. And her whole course was on how to read cinema. Yeah. And yeah, after Maggie Park. And she'd be, and she and I had talked about maybe where could we collaborate on some stuff. But I think the thing to point out, bringing it back to rings of rituals is that it's this is where Dr. Sarah Brown works and what she heard teaching work is centered around the signal as well. That's right. That's right. And this is your co-host. And again, the idea of this particular episode, sorry, everybody, we keep going on little rabbit holes and tangents here, but that's normal for the war rounds. That's what we do, David. Exactly. It was funny because the dungeon didn't do eggs, guys, we're talking about how that maybe they should name their show called tangents because they keep going on fun tangents. It's like, oh, you know, we should be called dungeons. You don't have, you haven't coined the market on tangents. No, no, no, no, sorry.

10:16But your co-host, Dr. Sarah Brown, a faculty at Signum and does a lot of work on Tolkien as well as other literature stuff. I don't know if you want to talk about Sarah real quick. So let people know who, if they, if they drop in on rings and rituals, who are they going to hear with you? They will hear Dr. Sarah Brown. Thank you. A very gifted scholar. She's widely known and loved throughout many Tolkien circles. She's given papers and keynotes at oxen moot, at west moot. The leads, a medieval conference, she has edited books. She's in the process of editing one collection and writing another book. So I mean, I don't know when she sleeps and the answer is not very often. Or a time to podcast with a, with a, with a, with a, with a, with a, with a, with a, thing. I'm so thrilled that an addition to her crazy teaching schedule, she agreed, she not

11:17only agreed to do this with me, but she said, oh, yes, this is very important. I definitely want to do this. So wow, did I ever feel shiny for a while? And we should mention to your background really quick, your retired librarian or your librarian emeritus or how do you, how are you addressed in your professional circles? I am a research librarian emerita. There you go. And I taught a course on Tolkien's sources at Colby College for 35 years. Often on, I, I only taught in Jan plan. So I had to do only one course a year. And I have the, the time I retired, I had a, a stable of four courses, all of them dealing with fantasy literature, very tights, but also religious, like religious responses to her hip hopter and the religion of contemporary witchcraft. And you're sort of one of within the lore house community besides being a Tolkien expert, we're going to give that, we're going to give you that. You're also one of our general history persons as well as mythology and witchcraft and

12:18yeah, global mythology from around the world, from what little you do, no here and there, which is quite a lot. But you are often bringing a lot of wonderful insights into both modern history and to mytho history, I guess we could say, the history of mythology and how it affects us and how it plays a part in our in the human condition, I guess. Well, you can't see me, but I'm blushing. I think you, I, I, I, it's so much fun to be able to, you know, bring to both the properties that I love, like Star Wars and Star Trek, but also ones that are new to me, like Green Lanterns. Yes. To bring these different perspectives and say, well, here's another way to look at this. And I find it particularly useful for, useful for Tolkien's works because it's so challenging sometimes to have a conversation about adaptations of Tolkien without getting into wrangling. Right. Sarah and I are not Wranglers.

13:19We're not interested in that. And I felt that ritual was a good lens through which to enter into pain in McKee's vision to see what are they telling us? You know, good, bad or different, agree, disagree, whatever. But what are they telling us and how are they telling it? And can I pause you really quick there? Sure. And to orient the listeners a little bit, the framework or entry point for the podcast brings in rituals and what you and Sarah are doing is analyzing the on-screen rituals and then taking that out and beyond, both within the world of Tolkien. But then you actually oftentimes will bring it into our primary earth world and talk about how we as human beings are using similar rituals or things like that. So I just wanted to make sure that folks were understanding like, this is the orientation of the show. If they come to rings and rituals, this is what they're going to hear you and Sarah

14:23talking about. Yes. The entry point is ritual, both Sarah and I are humans and therefore... You are? Yes. Last time I checked, I definitely presented as human beings. Okay. Great. All right. Just making sure. Yeah. Okay. So what comes from is the perspective of our human experience and what we know of other humans' experience as put down in mythology and text and all the rest of it. So we have to view pork rituals through a human lens because that's what we got. And it remarkably brings up, I'll call it, a level of humanity for the Udrucks that I sure wasn't expecting. Now I'll be really interested to see where they go from this given the developments in the final episode of season two. But you're looking at an all ritual on screen of the seasons, not just orcs or just elves or just humans, but ritual in every sense of the word.

15:28Brushing your teeth is a ritual. Precisely. We're talking about any action which is repeated that is intended to convey meaning or to bring about change, which is why brushing your teeth fits in. Well, you know, otherwise I can't really say that brushing your teeth is a ritual, but because of bringing about the change of healthier teeth and you do it every day, that's qualifies in our catalog if you will. Right. Definition in the zone of. But I think it's an important insight in that we human beings surround ourselves with ritual that we don't, Jay, doesn't have to have incense and incantations and mystery. It can be any number of things you cut the carrots the same way or you get your coffee from the same shop every day or when you see your relatives, you go through certain ritualistic greetings, you know, and you joke about sort of the same things. It creates context and framework for our experience and our shared experience.

16:28I would even assert a little bit. Oh, absolutely. We are communal beings. We have to have that shared experience as a community as well as our individual experience. And that's where a lot of our rituals grow from. It's a sense of this is who we are and we remind ourselves. This is who we are. And so this is how we do this thing. Although I got to say my most mundane example of a ritual I engage in regularly is I always put my left socks on first. I can't tell you why, but I would be really unsettled if I started with the right foot. Now I hope listeners will have suddenly pop into their mind similar examples of things that they do a certain way. It can really have very little meaning at all. But we like the assurance of repetitive things because it creates a container. It's familiar. We don't have to be constantly looking around and saying, oh, what's happening now?

17:31Obviously, there are plenty of other things like that in the world. But by knowing that, okay, this is who I am. This is how I do this. It just gives a sense of comfort in a way. But you come upon a universal experience like death. Well, whole boy, that's when the range really reaches out. And we have now looked at three separate rituals of remembrance, major rituals of remembrance from three different cultures. And we'll be seeing more of that in a personal way. So it is an excellent, I hadn't realized at the time when I first conceived of this. I didn't realize what an excellent marker it is because it is a universal experience. All I wanted to do is to tell the world that no, the harfots are not social darkness. They are a migratory culture and they have certain constraints on themselves. And this is a familiar thing in this world too.

18:32There are plenty of migratory cultures who do need to leave their dead behind, but not without ritual. Which goes, that goes into season one where I think a lot of people had reactions to individual family units, sorry, minor spoilers if you haven't caught up to season one of rings of power. But individual family units were self-contained and they needed to be self-contained. The whole couldn't look after every single wagon as it were. And so some people were like, oh, that's kind of harsh, like leaving behind people who are not able to fully function and keep up. And there was a lot of conversation. And so I'm assuming that that's where the genesis of rings of rituals, your podcast, sort of came that not only that incident, but on the show, but of how the harfots are operating writ large. Absolutely. Because I instantly recognized the ritual that they did as, well, that would call a

19:33sour ritual, morning and remembering, our beloved dead. So it was so immediate and personal to me that I just didn't understand where these people were calling them hypocrites. You know, you left it in a die. Now you're saying, we will wait for you. So what's up with that? Well, sometimes you'll have these ritual statements that carry meaning for the culture, that maybe people outside the culture just can't get. And when we actually see Sadduk at the end of the first season die, he says, the missus will be waiting for me. And so that's just amazing connection between those who have lost someone and that someone who was going on, but not too far. Right. It's interesting. I, the topic of death and grief has come up in my life, some extended family stuff, but also some local community things and talking with a therapist recently in a family

20:37context. We're talking about the question of grief. And of course, I'm thinking of like you and Nicole, who's one of the co-hosts that never mind the music. Yes. And this really interesting, I was talking with talking through some things with my daughter. And we were talking about grief and death rituals in a modern American content in our, in today's lived experience. And how little ritual we have around death other than the funeral itself in certain ethnic and religious cultures have some things that they do. But I was trying to talk to my daughter a little bit about it like, oh, well, like maybe in the past or in another culture, a wife of a husband, if you know, if the husband dies, he would wear black for a period of time and people would do certain thing. Like there was, there's just a lot more layers. And we've stripped a lot of those layers away.

21:40And I was, I got me really thinking about the whole question of what rituals do we have besides brushing teeth or putting our socks on on the left foot first in modern Western culture, where we really are helping to create an object out of an experience or an emotion so that our brain, our brains are kind of object oriented. Oh, here's a glass. Here's a microphone. Here's a computer, right? There's a thing that I know how to interact with because it has a kind of form and function to it. And I was thinking about does, does ritual help us create an object out of this experience so that we can actually work with it and engage with it and move with it, right? Because grief is non-linear, right? It's grief is going to do what grief does. And if we, if we don't have some ritual around it, it can really affect us in surprising ways, that we're not expecting. And part of ritual is a teaching, you know, the remembrance, the mapping, the song that

22:46they sing turns out to be a map itself. That was part of a ritual. So rituals mapping pathways for us to move through the world to confront and manage the experiences that we have so that they're not surprising. And like, what is this experience that I'm having? I don't understand this feeling. Well, maybe there's a ritual somewhere that would help you process that or orient to it. A ritual creates a container for those things that are not obviously containable. Right. Exactly. Because they are, fortunately, in the example of death, they're not an everyday experience. And I think perhaps one of the reasons why your question rises of, well, what do we do now is because we are not as communal physically as we have been. Sure. I actually went to a memorial service by a zoom back in the early days of COVID.

23:52And was that a physical experience? Well, I was physically present watching it. I don't know how physically present. Your electrons were mingling with the other electrons. And I don't know how much other people experienced me as being present in it. But the ones who sent the invitation, the family who was grieving, they knew. And that coming together becomes very important. But in so far as our communities, we talk about paris social communities when we're podcasting. And I think this is another example here. Within our Lorehounds community, we have created a paris social space for grieving. And it's called into the West. Yes. Yes. I hadn't even thought about that. Uh-huh. And the nominal host of that show. Well, I was the one who named it. So you are. You were. And you were on the inaugural episode as well. You helped us set the frame for into the West.

24:54It was it was a lovely. And you have an open invitation. I know Brian and Lisa would be more than happy to have you join us anytime. Sadly, someone passes away and you want to talk about that. You are you have an open invitation. Well, thank you. And it really has a lot to do with how well you know, have I seen them a lot of course. Of course, but I'm just saying yee. Yeah. I'll tell you what though. On that very sad day when we no longer have John Williams with us in the flesh, I will be there on that episode. Understood. See reserved. I mean, we can also have Mark from Nevermind Music if you like, but I will be there. Yeah. Yeah. We can have multiple conversations. There we go. Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. The idea that that that ritual creates can take an object so that then we can we can work through it. Is there anything? So you are now three episodes into season two in recording.

25:57Yes. In recording. And just to remind folks outside of any other side things that we would do like this conversation or bonus conversations with other people I know last year you talked with John, one of the main Lorhounds co-hosts about music and hopefully you'll talk with Philip and maybe some other people this year will see your episodes, your and Sarah's episodes are one for one for the original season one and now season two, your season two, three episodes in. And you're doing a kind of a scene by scene ritual by ritual deconstruction. This is what happens on screen and then this is what we're interpreting and reading which is a very lore houndy thing to do, right? Like let's lift up the carpet and see what's underneath here, like what's dig down into the soil a couple of inches and I'll dig in the soil. I don't want to lift the carpet. Yeah. Leave the carpet alone. Yeah. Go out and touch some grass and do some gardening.

26:57And so you're doing that and I'm so people should go and not only subscribe but also there's three episodes ready for you to for season two in your prep for season three of the main show in season two. I'm curious what because you've done your outlining and everything like that and you've done your major prep. What is, I always say one, what are one or are other rituals that you saw in season two of rings of power that you're really, you're ready to talk about. Like you need to, that you're excited to dig into like I guess entice folks to come and check out an episode like what, like what's really got you above? Well, I have to say I had not really tweaked the fact of how many rituals we get from the new man audience. A lot. They are spectacular. And season two gave us one of the most spectacular of all, which was the judgment of Queen

28:02Miria. I really need to start my rewind. Quite dramatic. Okay. Occurring on the coast is as appropriate with the sea people. Right. And it involves a certain creature that we've seen before. Hmm. So I'm really looking forward to digging into that a lot. What episode is that number? Do you remember off top of your head? Oh, you had to put me in the spot. Sorry. I'm guessing it's either five or six. Okay. Well, that's just, you know, that's just the secret way of getting people. They have to listen to five and six. Listen, it's my job to be unabashedly promoting the network and like all of the wonderful people we have within the Lorhounds community. So, you know, again, you can't see me doing that. Stop, stop saying like holding up one hand on them, I'm vickening it on with the other. So you've got eight episodes, you're three in. We have a phone, let's talk a little bit about rings of power. I know you've seen some of the trailers and I think you've been tracking some of what

29:04we're to be expecting. Without being, let's avoid spoilers just so that we don't get in trouble. Let's talk about the general big storylines, the Numenorians, Harfwoods, South Ron, Elves. Are there any particular storylines that you're especially looking forward to in season three? Well, it seems as though Saarron is going to be the big feature for this whole season. Okay. And I've already heard some, shall we say, interesting things that he might be undertaking as part of his process. Are you going to go invented interesting things or lore inspired or lore? That's kind of an interesting idea, but we're going to go 180 degrees in the opposite direction. Or... Well, you know, when I first heard this one, I thought, are you kidding me? And once I had sat back and thought about it and heard one or two other commentators

30:05said, I thought, yeah, okay, sure. Why not? Let's see what they do with it. Cool. And the podcast that people could listen to to with that conversation. We will. Bob. There might be. There just might be. But you have Bob is here behind the scene. He's on the camera and he's almost spit in his water when I did that. So interesting Saarron storylines got it. Yeah. One thing I'm sad about, I don't know if I can say this or not. Well, let me just say that one of the various people that we've been following is going to be completely absent. Apparently. I think Jonas going to be crushed. Well, I'm kind of crushed to, to be honest, but we'll see. Okay. Maybe that was, you know, one of those false trailers. Yeah. The internet is full of rumors. Well, this one, I believe, came directly from the sources, but they said a lot of things and showed a lot of things, of course, at San Diego Comic Con. And I was not there, but I've processed the intention.

31:07Yeah. And I'm on the same discussion list as a bunch of people who did. Right. So. Also, we are, we know for sure, apologies that people think this is a spoiler, but we are going to see El Ross and El Ron. So Robert Arameo is going to have a lot of fun playing himself and just twin brother. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I think I'm really looking forward to that. And the one still that they have showed this person can act just the two of them sitting there and the difference between the two of them at first class, I didn't think it was the same actor. And then I said, wait, wait, no, it is. Look at that. So that will be fun to see the whole topic of creation and craft and the crafter and how much is skill, how much is power and so forth. I think that's going to be one of the underlying themes, I'm speculating here of course, but

32:09again, from some tidbits that I've heard. Yeah, finding your power and figuring out how to use it and what source do you go to to learn about how to use your power the way you want to. That covers a couple of threats. Oh, I'm so good. I should podcast about this. It's interesting because one of the topics that you yourself, Marilyn, have brought into the Lorehound's community is the question of power power power with power over empowerment. I'm actually doing some prep to have a conversation with do 71 about the anniversary of aliens, the second movie. And I've been doing some analysis. This one definitely wind up probably as a blog post, but it's interesting how Ripley crosses all the lines of power power with power over empowerment. There's one other power that I forget off top of my head, but it's interesting.

33:10So you've very much affected a lot of you've been to a lot of the conversations around this question of power. And I think rings of power. I mean, it's in the name. Right. And the one ring to rule them all is the this ultimate question of power over and dominated using your willpower to dominate, which I think I hope you're having fun with lanterns because willpower in a ring right in expressing your will through a ring is very coded as well. But it's interesting to reflect on I mean Tolkien's rings did come first. And yet every time I hear you and Jean talk about the ring, I think what? Oh, not that one. Not that one. Yeah. Mostly I've just been so absorbed in following the plot because I know nothing about the war for this for this. You're not supposed to. And that's kind of what's cool about the show is that you can ride along without worrying about it. Yeah. No, I feel fine.

34:10And every so often I'll post a question on the Green Lanterns general channel and say, you know, I don't know from Guardians. Can anybody tell me did these creatures have limitations? Because if they don't, I'm sorry. That's kind of a poor construction. Right. Right. For a story, everything has to have some kind of limitation or weakness or whatever, or they just become, you know, the big bads that swallow the world. Right. And everything there's no stakes and there's no drawing. There's no dramatic tension tension and release. That's drama, right? But it's interesting. You mentioned this idea of willpower. I would say that the Green Lantern Ring is entirely power over. Hmm. Now, I want to know more about the whole spectrum of colors. Yeah. Well, because there is a ring that there is a ring coded for empathy, I believe. Right. That's my sauce. Yeah. That's where I'm really at home. And I would love to know more about how that one works. Well, if Connor M who's been a friend of the pod and writing in all kinds of stuff for our podcast coverage of Connor, if you're listening to this and you hear this,

35:13send in some material for Marilyn on empathy rings. Anyway, I just stopped listening to Connor's Lord Up from the episode that I'm currently on because I don't want to be spoiled. And some of the stuff he was getting into, I thought, I think that's more information than I want. So I just stopped and I'll wait till the end after I've seen them all. And we've now, we're breaking out the feedback into, we're putting it at the ends of the episodes. And in this week, in fact, tonight, you're on and I are recording a whole separate feedback because we got enough feedback that it actually needs to be in its own podcast. Yeah. Yeah. And so we're putting a lot of that comic deeper lore stuff at the ends of the podcast so you can get through the front end without being spoiled. So. So David, what are you looking forward to most for season three, A Vrins of Power? You know, it's funny. I haven't thought about it from a condense standpoint because we've been trying to just deal with the administration and management standpoint because they're doing this goofy

36:14for episode one week, two followed by two episodes, one the next second week and then two episodes the third week. And then they're dropping a whole other show, all eight episodes on that same day that they released the last two. And so we've been sort of like, oh, how are we going to do this and whatnot? And I'll just quickly note for the listeners, yes, our plan. However it, you know, however things roll out, but we would not be the, we would not be the podcast who we are and how we started if we did not have an episode for ever, one podcast episode for each individual episode of the show. So good headings. Yes, particularly with three of us. Yeah, we're not going to compress or combine to try to match. We do take, I don't want to say penalty, but you know, you don't get as much down load. You lose a little bit on, on your reach if things are a little bit less timely, but in

37:16the absence of certain knowledge of screeners, we just have to take that hit and just say, okay, we're going to put it out there because we know that our community wants that and we would not be the podcast that we are if we did not serve the Lord of the Rings because that's our origin story. Well, and I have to say, yeah, at Laura. Absolutely, absolutely. I have to think that most podcasters are going to take that same approach. I think some will compress and combine it. Everybody's going to make their own decisions. Everybody's going to make their own decisions, but I find myself now speaking of the poor creators who are podcasters who are trying desperately to keep up with things. And now I'm thinking about a certain character standing in a gateway saying, isn't that just the way, you know, the poor creators come up with their best, you know, they work their knuckles raw. And then they never hear from the people they're working for again. Yeah. So anyway, we're going to, you know, by hook or by crook, we'll have a individual podcast

38:18out for every single episode, a full breakdown as we've done in years past. The screener gods are fickle, so we're making the appropriate sacrifices. We're doing the appropriate vocalizations and movements. We're doing the appropriate rituals. We need Disa here to sing to the mountain for us. And we will hope for that. And if not, we will have a one for one. What I'm interested in personally, I, what if it clerk on screen to me is like, wow, I could watch, I could watch them act all day. I'd put her up there for me and I'll be happy. And so I'm really curious to see where, am I going to pronounce it right? Because I got trouble before gladrale. Did I get that right? Yes. Okay. You are so correct. I'm blushing right now because I was so nervous. I want to see. Well, because I'm like, you know, people, it's very important to people.

39:20I want to know where gladrale is going to end up and where she's going to go. I'm also very excited to see El Ron. And, or, or, or my, I've got to get everybody's names reloaded into the short term memory. Roberta, I'm a, I'm a, thank you. He's, he's lovely as well. I'm really excited to see him. So I think those are, I think those are the characters I'm most interested in. Well, you're going to get a two for on that one. Yes, that's exciting as well. So, and I, I will start my, my rewatch very soon and catch up to that. But otherwise, anything else that listener should know about rings and rituals or anything else that you're working on? Mostly just we really love having feedback. Okay. And that can include suggestions and questions and, well, why did you do this or that or whatever? Mm-hmm. Because they're starting to come in earlier this season and in greater numbers. So I mean, that's, that's very exciting.

40:21You're very good at it. Yeah, and I would just encourage everyone to, to, to now worry about typos or, or being, you know, you don't, you don't need to write a small blog post as a, as a feedback. Send them in short or, or talk it through just to a voice memo or use the, the, the voicemail app on the, on the website. As a podcaster, it is, and especially a community oriented podcast because going back to the power question, the lorehounds really does see themselves as a power with community. Yeah, we hit, we're on the microphones. Yeah, we're the ones doing the talking, but we're not talking at you or down to you community. We're trying to talk with you. Mm-hmm. And we can't talk with you unless we have feedback. And yeah, the, the, the discord is a great place where we're all talking together. That's awesome. And we actually want to bring your voices onto the podcast and incorporate it into everything that we do because we're doing this with you, you know, otherwise we're just podcasting

41:21into the void. And so feedback really is meaningful. And it's not even about patting us on the back or anything like that, but it's like we know folks are having insights and thoughts and are reacting to things. And I would rather have folks just pause for a moment, speak to text and get that bad email and send it immediately and don't worry about it because we'd rather have your, your point of view and your insights to carry with us and to incorporate into the story as opposed to not having it. Absolutely. And let me also add, for those of you who might have been burned in other Tolkien communities, there can be a lot of contentiousness swirling around this amazing author and adaptations of the work. Sarah and I don't do that. Right. We're not into hating. Sarah saves her snark for a different podcast and that's fine. It's not that we don't have it, but that's not what rings and rituals is for. We're trying to look at the program from the perspective of the content creators themselves.

42:29What are they trying to tell us and so forth? And by doing so, I think I've often come to the realization that they really do know their lore. And I think for a lot of people, if you've only seen the films or the films in the books, but you've never gone into the 12 volume set of histories of mental earth, and why would you unless you really want to spend an awful lot of your life and the great part of your bookshelf on it, but they're doing that. And these things show up and every once in a while, you know, all season, you say, well, that's not real. And then somebody else will say, actually, no, it is real. From only there was a podcast that would help you decode some of that information. Well, you know, I think there might be one or two. And there certainly one. There's certainly one rings and rituals where it's delivered in a non-judgmental and a non-pretentious way that's actually accessible for you to enjoy and to participate in.

43:33Thank you for those kind words. Yeah. And I think that's a really important part of the lore house community, what we're trying to foster and what we're trying to create. Definitely. Yes, we're personalities and we're big personalities talking and we are a community, we form an intentional community. Definitely. And we don't want people to feel coming into this community that we're, there's a gatekeeping or there's a hierarchy of knowledge or information, but we want to appreciate and listen to and engage with other points of view on, on equal footing. And please, if you ever feel like we've stumbled or we've said something that really didn't work well for you, tell us. Let us know. We want those kinds of messages too because that's how we all learn. I am learning so much from listening to Jean's commentary about the lanterns. And an African American man raising African American children, the whole societal thing and of course woman because the mother has a lot to do in that show too.

44:35And we need to hear from all of community, not just the ones that look like us and talk like us and sound like us. Cool. So by the time I think we'll put this out next week right around the same time that episode three drops, we're dropping on Wednesdays. Yes. We're on a good cadence now. We had to double up a little bit at the beginning there. And then we're going to have an episode, a rings and rituals episode for you every week right up to the week before rings of power season three drops. So we were this is sort of you can use the scaffolding of the podcast as your season two rewatch. Right. And sort of bring you up to this. And another thing that obviously there's lots of ways to support the podcast, but one of the best ways that you can support the podcast. If you really like what Sarah and Marilyn, whatever your name is, hi, Marilyn, this person over there.

45:36Hi, David. Hi. Are working on share it with other people. You know that would enjoy it because the more that people are interacting with the podcast that higher goes up and then the algorithms, the great algorithm in the sky will shine favor upon their podcast and help bring it bring it forth into the into the realms of for your you page for your your your FYP. So the internet is just full of weird human ritual stuff, right? It's like it's all there. And some mechanical ritual. Yes. And all kinds of ways. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to talk with me today. Anything else that you want to let folks know about for the podcast or anything else? We wouldn't be here if you weren't there. So thank you very much. And thank you for our recorder Bob and for our producers. Yep. David and John. And again, thanks to all of you listening because you're the ones are doing this for and

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