"Press passes restored"

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1:06O'Pill is a daily birth control pill that's FDA approved, full prescription strength, and estrogen-free, plus there's no prescription needed. Finally, the days of needing a prescription for birth control are over. Take control of your health and your reproductive journey. Find O'Pill online and at most major retailers. Hi there, everyone. Big Dave News. It's 4 o'clock in New York. After walking right up to the line of outright defiance of a court order and a potential constitutional crisis, the Trump White House today restored the press passes for our colleagues at MSNOW, along with White House units from CNN and Politico. Those journalists should have been let back into the White House in early morning to do their jobs covering Donald Trump. After Judge Timothy Kelly ordered the immediate restoration of their access overnight. But as you can see here on your screen, our White House reporter Laura Burone Lopez was repeatedly barred from entering the White House grounds,

2:10as were journalists from the other outlets. After lawyers for the news outlets requested an emergency hearing on what they called noncompliance by the Trump administration, the White House's director of operations then filed a declaration. That declaration says the White House began the process of restoring badges at 7.25 in the morning. The U.S. Secret Service says that the badges were back online at 9.07 a.m., and that they began searching for the confiscated badges. The badges were delivered to White House operations at 9.45 a.m., and the White House press office dropped the badges off at 9.55 a.m. The problem with that timeline is that it doesn't square up with the fact that the journalists from all three of the band outlets were not let back onto the White House grounds until noon today. With access now restored for at least the next 14 days and the legal challenge to Trump's press band proceeding, Judge Kelly, who happens to be a Trump appointee,

3:10finds that the news outlets are, quote, likely to succeed in showing that their hard passes were revoked without constitutionally adequate due process. And on the grounds that quote, the general rule is that individuals must receive notice and an opportunity to be heard before the government deprives them of a constitutionally protected interest. Judge Kelly also weighed in on the White House's national security justification for Donald Trump's attack on the free press. The Judge pouring cold water on it by writing this quote, for one thing, nothing in the record that predates this suit suggests that the revocation of plaintiffs hard passes was motivated by national security concerns. Certainly that is not what President Trump said when he announced that he was banning plaintiffs from the White House. Instead, he focused on the alleged lack of truthfulness and negativity of plaintiffs reporting. Ted Butrose, who's the attorney for the news outlets, welcomed the order from Judge Kelly, calling it a, quote, strong ruling, vindicating freedom of the press, due process, and the rule of law.

4:19Ted Butrose joins us right now for his first interview since this morning's order. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me, Nicole. And thank you for what you do. I mean, thank you for protecting our right to do this. I wonder if with your vast experience, you could tell us how this case in this battle compares to previous ones. We fed Jim Acosta on all weeks since this has happened, and that seems like the right parallel. But in a lot of ways, this was a lot more journalism at stake, a lot more journalists and a lot more outlets. It was very gratifying to represent journalists in the press because you're really representing the public too. So I'm so glad to be involved in this case. This really is the Acosta case times at least 78 because we had 78 journalists whose hard passes were taken away for with no notice based on the content of their reporting. Plus three major news organizations banished from the White House complex. So it's like nothing we've ever seen before. And in Jim Acosta's case, they weren't as explicit that they were doing because the president didn't like the reporting.

5:31And here that was the basis that President Trump thought reporting was too negative, purposely negative. So it's really unprecedented. And Judge Kelly got exactly right. So we're very pleased with that order. What is the sort of after the fact attempt to wrap this or cloak this in national security concerns? Portent. What does that say to you that they might do next? They're going to try to come up with some rationale. National security was their first stab. I imagine no keep pushing that as we go to the next stage of this litigation, the preliminary and junction stage and try to flesh it out somehow, but it'll be impossible for them to do it because the president over and over again stated that the reason for this ban was his antipathy towards the content of the reporting and the view editorial viewpoints of the networks and political and the journalists. So I think it's going to be very difficult for them, but the president Trump, the administration have been invoking national security over and over again to try to justify actions. But as Judge Kelly said, there has to be evidence.

6:40There has to be proof and this is what the courts call the classic post-hoc rationalization a pretext. This wasn't about national security. And I mean, the point yesterday in the hearing journalism about national security is really one of the most important types of journalism because it's allowing the people in the press to hold government officials accountable on one of the most important things to the country and that's national security war and those sorts of things. So I don't think it's going to fly. It's just it's contrary to the record. I know you are laser focused on on the clients in the case, but do you ever step back and and have any sort of, oh my god, moments that this is happening in America? I do. I really can't believe it because one of the rationals and the government's brief that they filed basically was that there shouldn't be a free press that journalists shouldn't be able to gather information about the government that the government doesn't want to see the light of day.

7:45I mean, I think it's going to be a great deal to have a right critical stories. And it's really shocking that that's the position in the United States government. And so it is really not something I ever expected to see. And today was a feel good moment for the First Amendment and for democracy when I saw the MSNBC reporters back in White House and on the White House grounds and CNN reporters and political and everybody else in the cameras. I felt really good about our country. And I think journalism. People are going to understand again how important journalism is to the country and to democracy because it gets people the information they need. So they can decide how to govern themselves, how to vote, who to vote for. What is your council in terms of navigating a White House that won't stop here? I mean, they'll come up with something else. There may be other consequences. If they couldn't kick them out, they may treat them differently.

8:52I mean, what is your just from sitting at this sort of intersection of the press and the law? What is your council for anyone trying to cover Trump fairly and aggressively? Keep reporting, keep digging, keep reporting the truth. And then I think fighting these legal battles, I think that that's part of it, that journalists don't want to go into court. They want to be reporting. But when something like this happens, laying down a marker, asserting the First Amendment rights to the Constitution gives to the American people. And we try to anticipate some of the things that they might the government might try to do to get around these First Amendment and do process protections. So we're ready to go. I was very happy that today they ultimately did adhere and follow the order and now reporters are back there. But I think just fighting the battle and keep reporting. And you know, reports don't like to be part of the story, but sometimes you are when you are, you just need to sort of do two things at the same time.

9:56A certain First Amendment rights, your due process rights, and keep doing great journalism. What do you understand have happened this morning? Is it overstating it to say that look like they might have been ignoring the order or does it look like they may have just had a lack of urgency and restoring the past? I mean, do you have any insights into the events of the morning? I really don't. We had a very busy morning because we got the order at 1 a.m. and that was a pretty long period of time for them to comply. And so at first we thought they're going to violate the order. And so we went to the judge and we went to the Justice Department. So I don't know. And I don't want to sort of try to figure it out at this point because I'm so glad that they ultimately have complied with the order. And really it is an extraordinary thing for the judge to say, no, this due process is likely violated.

10:58I'm ordering you to allow these reporters back into the White House. It was exactly right under the law. But you know, in every minute counts in journalism, that's one of the things that the judge held in finding a reputable harm. So that time lag did have an effect. And you saw Laura Baron Lopez trying to get in and she was persistent and the reporter from CNN and the same thing, Politico. That's kind of an example of what you were asking about. Keep going. Keep going back. Keep trying to get access and keep reporting. Do you allow yourself to think about the sort of war beyond the battles? I mean, you look at the Pentagon and they successfully barred outlets. A lot of them from the Pentagon at a time of war. You look at the five subpoenas for New York Times journalists that ultimately either fell apart in court or the government walked them back. I don't remember which happened first. What would what do you say to people outside of our country who ask you how on earth you could be fighting these battles in this country when you when you take all their actions against suppress as a whole.

12:11It is a multi front battle. I'm hoping this isn't anomaly that it flows from present Trump's approach to dealing with journalists and dealing with free speech and that that we're going to get through this. But holding the line is so important. I'm involved in the Pentagon case too. And there kind of goes back again to the point you were making about will they try to come up with some other way to get around what the judges are ordered. And you know, at the end of the day, it's not good for them for the government in the Pentagon case. We had declarations from former press secretaries and communications people at the Pentagon saying that this having reporters there is good for the government. It's good for the Pentagon. It's good for the White House because they can get their points out to the people too. So I feel we're going to get through this, but we do need to keep fighting on all these fronts.

13:11What fight could happen in 14 days? Like what are the we're obviously able to exhale and and do our jobs for 14 days, but what happens at that juncture? So the next step will be this expedited briefing on the preliminary injunction, which can be there's no time limit. So here there's a 14 day limit on the temper restraining order. So we will put in our briefs. I think they're doing now to Monday busy weekend coming and potentially more declarations. The government will respond. I imagine they will somehow try to justify and shore up this based looks national security argument. They came up with after the fact that as I said earlier, I don't think they're going to be able to do it. And then the judge will look at all the issues in the case. We have in addition to the due process argument that the court ruled gave us a right to a temporary restraining order. Really strong first amendment arguments that this ban is President Trump called it ban on the free press was meant as retaliation for speech that he and the administration doesn't like.

14:18And also that is viewpoint discrimination, which is one of the most egregious types of first amendment violations. So those issues about come front and center in a more full some way over the next couple weeks. You know, I looked at all of the stories that the government put. I guess in that first filing that was argued yesterday and a lot of them, or I think the vast majority of them are about the war in Iran. It is really clear that they're trying to sort of close close ranks or or or stifle honest reporting about what's happening there. What do you think what do you anticipate they will do on that front? It's really interesting. They they've saved classified information was of all alike. And the judge found in his order that these were routine stories. And some of them there's been reporting these for government sources that were the source of the information. And so I think they're going to just keep hammering classified information national security information.

15:21But you can't just say those words. You have to back it up. Number one, and number two journalists are entitled to report on all information classified national security sensitive information that they lawfully obtain. And so it's that's part of the push and pull between the press and the government for the Constitution and shrines in the first amendment. It's meant to have exactly that sort of contest. You know that from your days in the White House that that is the process. It's healthy for democracy. So what they're attacking is really the essence of journalism and freedom of the press. I don't think the courts are going to agree with them on those arguments. Trump has taken some things that we just shouldn't have to white knuckle like birthright citizenship. Like the idea that no one's against the law and rolled the dice on the Supreme Court. Is there any nightmare scenario in your mind that he somehow gets this to the Supreme Court and we're white knuckling the outcome?

16:22We definitely think ahead. So we think ahead to the DC circuit, which is the court of appeals. And the Supreme Court, the arguments we're making are so fundamental for that they're just basic doctrine. Do process that you have fair notice of what conduct will subject to punishment and how big a punishment. Viewpoint discrimination, including in what's called a non public forum like the White House, where speakers are allowed in for speech activities. The government can regulate that, but what the government can't do is viewpoint discrimination. And the Supreme Court has been very strong on those those points. In the case a couple of years ago, Courthel, that the role of the government is not to unbiased speech that it thinks is biased. It's the market and it's the people who make those determinations. So I think that looking ahead to the Supreme Court, we have by far the better the arguments on basic fundamental due process and first amendment law.

17:27But no question, we think about all those things and we're ready for whatever comes. I mean, it strikes me as an extra public and that the arguments are usually made on the other side. It's usually the right arguing about their first amendment, prerogatives, and to see the government under control of a Republican arguing against access to the White House feels like such a turnaround. Do you ever sort of ponder the, I don't know if hypocrisy is the right word, but the irony of this White House and these actors arguing the things they're arguing with actual people standing in the White House. Are there any people standing in court before judges making arguments that they've argued against for decades? I do, I do ponder that in an essay that what is going on here, you know, that executive order in favor of free speech and then you see what's happening. But the good news is that there have been so many really strong first amendment cases over the last 10 or 15 years that have come from oftentimes what we would call conservative, the conservative side of the equation.

18:37And what's beautiful about the first amendment is that those principles apply no matter what the content of the speech or the viewpoint or the content of the reporting. So there's a really strong body of law that's that's been developed that should protect these journalists and MSN and CNN and political in all these organizations from this kind of behavior from the government. What do you see when you look at the 10 year project of Trump's to describe reporters as the enemy of the people in his earliest rallies, he would have his supporters turn around and look at the journalists in the back on the podium, extending through this case right now, this specific case in these specific facts. When people look back at this period, what is what is what is clear to you in terms of what Trump is trying to do? It's really interesting because I think because everyone talks about President Trump seems to like to be talking to journalists and to be in the public eye and like yet his strategy has been to bash journalism and say they're the journalists and say they're the enemy of the people.

19:55And I think the lesson though that I see is it doesn't work because journalists have been continuing to do tremendous work and and and keep digging for the truth and not let it get in the way of honest fact based independent reporting. But at the end of the day, I think we're going to be where we have been all along with government officials can attack the press, they can say whatever they want journalists can report the truth and keep digging and express their views and that's the way it's supposed to function. I think I think we're going to end up stronger because of this and that this tactic of just attacking the press attacking individual journalists and like is going to be discredited. As an outsider, but obviously a stakeholder, I find it interesting and perhaps helpful in the court of public opinion that the judge is a Trump appointee. Does that matter to you or the facts in your view and the law so clear?

20:59To me, it really gives you faith in the rule of law and I try not to look at judges based on who appointed them. But Judge Kelly was also the judge and the accost to case and CNN case and I handle that case and I remember when he we drew him, we all just said the law is the law. We have this very strong, you see circuit case share over this night and if the judge applies the law, we will win and that's exactly what he did there. That's what he did here at the TRO stage. And so I think as lawyers, my view is always just make your best arguments under the law and best arguments under the facts and the judges who are fulfilling their obligations will rule in a way that is meant to be under the law and the facts and that's what happened here. So we really, you know, the judge acted swiftly, which we really appreciated and the law is just very clearly on our side here. So we're ready for the next step here.

22:00Tebbetras, thank you for what you do for us as journalists and for the country, which ultimately is the consumer of any of our reporting. Thank you so much for your time today. We're really grateful. Thanks so much for having me. Thank you so much. When we come back, we'll bring our reporter colleague Laura Burrell Lopez, who, Ted and I just talked about into the conversation. She is, as we've reported, back on the grounds of the White House doing her job after being denied access to the White House complex earlier this morning. We'll talk to her about the day that she has had one for the history books. Also ahead, today's ruling against Donald Trump is the latest reminder of how the courts have emerged as the primary, the central check on Donald Trump in this White House. One of the lead constitutional law experts on Capitol Hill, Congress and Jamie Raskin will be here. And later in the broadcast, while the Trump administration may have been playing games this morning with the American press and the First Amendment, Trump was also making a show at the very same time of praising China's state-run media.

23:03That's what he's into. We'll look at how all of his actions to rule our country like an autocrat is endangering US national security when Deadland White House continues. After a quick break, don't go anywhere. Chevy is called the heartbeat of America for a reason, with SUVs made to move with your rhythm. The versatile equinox tackles your entire day. The spacious traverse fits your crew and your whole weekend, and tracks spring style with value you can count on. All infused with tech that has your back. So your drive always hits the right cord. Adventure awaits in a new Chevy. Right now, get $500 bonus cash on select Chevy Tracks models. Plus, get 2.9% financing on all 2026 Tracks models. Together, let's drive at your Southern California Chevy dealers.

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25:05Promotion pricing may be lower than your pricing. Thanks to our last guest, Ted Butrose, and Judge Ruling on the facts and the law, we are happy to report to you that the White House press from MSNOW, CNN, and Politico, are right now back on the grounds of the White House, having their press credentials restored and doing their jobs. This morning though, was a different story. It wasn't clear initially when or if that would happen today. One of our reporters, Laura Burone Lopez, tried many times today to get into the complex and go back to work. Her efforts were captured by cameras outside the White House. Laura Burone Lopez joins us now. I'm also here at the table with former Undersecretary of State for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs during the Obama administration, the former managing editor of Time Magazine, political analyst Rick Stangle. Laura, tell us about your day. It's been a long day, Nicole, but I'm really glad to be back here on the White House grounds and to be able to join you from the White House grounds.

26:06I'm on Pipple Beach where so many of us often are when we talked to you when we joy-denly White House. And it was the third attempt. I tried three times this morning, and on the third attempt I was able to get into the White House, get my badge back because it was confiscated earlier this morning when I first tried to enter the White House. To enter the White House with the badge that I had because it was not taken from me when I left the White House on Friday evening. After being here all day and after the president had initially announced his ban that came very suddenly with no notice. And so I arrived around 8.19 a.m. to attempt to enter because the judge overnight restored our access aim that the White House needed to immediately restore our access to the White House grounds. And I was denied access and my badge was taken this morning from me when I attempted to get into the White House. And I was told by the Secret Service that the badge was still disabled. So when I tried a second time I was again told that I was not in the system.

27:09And we were trying to get answers from the White House from the U.S. Secret Service about what exactly was happening, why there appeared to be such a long delay given that they had hours since the judge ruled around the White House. And we weren't getting any answers and we didn't receive any answers Nicole until just moments ago from the White House. And they sent over a link to my producer Lindsey Papia that was a filing from a White House aid who handles logistics. And it was a filing to the court saying laying out their timeline of events claiming that they had restored access in the 7 a.m. hour and that people had been notified. But their timeline doesn't match up with the timeline that I experienced or the timeline that the CNN reporters and political reporters experienced either. We are back now. Here there is still the additional step though that the pool has not the TV pool has not necessarily been restored.

28:11They have not lifted their suspension because of the fact that they are waiting to see if the White House is going to grant CNN access to the pool. Because if not, then the TV networks are not going to resume their coverage of the president through the TV pool. And on this day of all days when the Chinese President Xi Jinping was here at the White House throughout the day meeting with the President and bilateral meetings. And just to paint the contrast, Nicole, Chinese state media was allowed to be on the grounds throughout the day covering that. Well, there was no American TV footage captured of the President throughout this summit today. Let me ask you something that I've wondered through this whole process. I worked in the White House Communications Office. Sometimes there were journalists that traveled in with a governor. Did the White House press office ever offer to waive you guys in for the day since the judge had ruled that you had a right to be there?

29:15No, not necessarily. When I called a Wrangler, those are, as you know, Nicole, Jr. Press, Assistance. And they handle a lot of the logistics for reporters here at the White House, including the pool. When I called one, they were a bit dismissive with me. And they simply said that I had to resubmit forms. They're called waive forms here in order to regain my access. We had done that. And yet still, we were having difficulty getting our access restored to the White House. There was at no time for us. And I don't believe for me for myself. And I do not believe at any point where my colleagues, a Kayla Gardner or Jake Trailer, offered any kind of escort or from one of the press officials. None of them called us to say that they would be willing to waive us in, Nicole. How do you feel being back there after being targeted by Trump? The whole experience has been surreal. It is an important moment, though. And so what I've been focused on is that, yes, the president attacked R3 outlets, attacked MSNOW, CNN, and Politico, and targeted us and didn't really provide much explanation for that targeting other than he wasn't happy with the coverage in the White House.

30:33And he believed that it was negative, but only later, days later, did he offer a national security explanation. But still, what we have been focused on, what I've been focused on, is trying to continue to report on this White House. And whether it's about the press band, or whether it's about other issues facing this White House and the country, the Iran War, we were, I was just up in New York, covering the United Nations. And then again, we just had a story about the president's pet projects and how administration officials were circulating a list of government sites that they think that they may want to add the president's name to. And one of the historic landmarks that has come up in discussions amongst administration officials in terms of potentially attaching the president's name to is the Ford's Theatre, where President Abraham Lincoln was assassinated in 1865. So, and I've been continuing to do my job, the best that I could do it, continuing to talk to sources without the access that we had here on the White House grounds.

31:42But of course, that access is important because we missed at least the beginning of today, with Xi Jinping's arrival, the Chinese president's arrival. And there are obviously other important reasons for being on the grounds, access to administration officials when they come out to Pebble Beach, when they come out to the North on, and they are willing to talk to press and to be able to ask them tough but fair questions. And so that's why it's so critical to be here right now. It is so central to, and I don't think this is a partisan statement, I know it isn't, to the public's right to understand what their leaders are doing in their name that the press be allowed to work inside the building. And I cannot believe that this is sort of where we are, just two years in, and that the substance of it and the defense of something that they had to have known was unconstitutional, was national security.

32:45To me, that that pertains more bumpy time to head. Yes, I mean, I was thinking about this while Mr. Bucharest was talking. I mean, this has been an issue throughout the history of the Republic, the Sedition Act of 1798. Clearly unconstitutional, made criticism of the government a crime. The Sedition Act of 1918 during World War I, same thing also unconstitutional. But this has mostly happened during times of war that Quays-A-Warrit France, that civil war, World War II, the Vietnam War. The reason Trump is such an anomaly is, as you said, from the moment he got into office, he started attacking the press, not in a time of war, just at a time when he wanted a press that was as easily cowed as the Chinese press. He said, look, they have to ask permission of Xi Jinping to ask questions. There's absolutely no press freedom there. So his lack of understanding of freedom of the press, to him freedom of the press means press that he likes, and he can press that he doesn't.

33:52Such a fundamental lack of understanding to what you talked about as a fundamental value of the American Republic. Laura Buron-Lope has an incredible journalist and our eyes and ears. Thank you for being there today and every day. We're really grateful to get to talk to you. Rick sticks around a little bit longer. When we come back, one of the most prominent legal and constitutional counters to Trump in Congress will be here. On Trump's repeated attempts to dismantle our democracy. Jamie Raskin joins us next. So don't go anywhere. Shavey is called the heartbeat of America for a reason, with SUVs made to move with your rhythm. The versatile equinox tackles your entire day. The spacious traverse fits your crew and your whole weekend, and tracks spring style with value you can count on. All infused with tech that has your back. So your drive always hits the right cord.

34:59Adventure awaits in a new Chevy. Right now, get $500 bonus cash on select Chevy Tracks Models. Plus, get 2.9% financing on all 2026 Tracks Models. Together, let's drive at your Southern California Chevy dealers. Bonus cash is available on 2026 Chevy Tracks LT and active trims only. 2.9% APR for 36 months. Monthly payment is $2904 for every 1000 new finance. Example them payment 11%. Some customers may not qualify, not available with police and some of their offers. Take your retail delivery by 93026. Do you remember in school when your teacher had a favorite of everything? A favorite marker, a favorite element, and yes, even a favorite student? Who wasn't me, so let's move on. I want to talk about their real favorite thing. According to teacher lists, Kleenex is the number one facial tissue trusted by teachers. They're silky soft, help prevent skin irritation. And now, with Kleenex snap and go, you can take them anywhere. Stock up on the ultimate classroom favorite. For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex.

36:14It is one of the most essential things for us to take in this afternoon. The Donald Trump's full on assault on a free press collided today with his full on assault with the courts. Today, at least the courts held firm to the rule of law that is despite a years long effort to chip away at the judiciary from attacks on individual judges and threats to their safety and their reputations. To a hand pick remaking of the federal judiciary. And yet, despite all that, Trump lost in court today in front of a judge he appointed. Much in the same way his justice department has now lost 25 straight times. For instance, in a nationwide campaign to four states to hand over unredacted voter registration data on all of this. I want to bring in Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin of Maryland. He's the ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee. He's a former professor of constitutional law. We think of you in every news cycle, but particularly this one. And I wonder all of your thoughts on what isn't over yet. This will not be Trump's last attempt to rein in or cow the free press.

37:27He keeps slashing away at the basic freedoms contained in the First Amendment, the freedom of speech, the freedom of press, the right to petition government for redress of grievances, the right to assemble, the religion clauses. And I got to say I was very impressed by the way that the White House press corps stuck together across whatever ideological lines exist and across whatever competitive business dynamics there are. And that's a recipe for success. I mean, when the different domains of society have been under attack, the ones that have stuck together have feared much better. But when you saw like the law firms under attack with absolutely unconstitutional and outrageous assaults by the president, a lot of them folded early. And the ones who hung top and went to court ended up winning. But now you've got the president collecting hundreds of millions of dollars worth of free pro bono aid from these poor young legal associates at these law firms who got traded away at the beginning.

38:31And then the first thing happened with the universities. I mean hundreds of millions of dollars from the university endowments had to be turned over to the federal government for no reason or very, very little reason at all. I think what we just saw from the White House press corps is a great demonstration of how solidarity has got to be the watch word in defense of our liberties against this utterly lawless and reckless administration. It's such an important point because it strikes me that you were issuing warnings from a vice president, Kamala Harris, was issuing warnings anywhere that cover Trump is issuing warnings about what Trump would do. And he's done all that and then some. But I think what surprised me was the immediate capitulation of story liberal law firms like Paul Weiss, which I think was the first law firm to go to Trump to ask for the meeting and then capitulate universities long associated with free speech and freedom of thought capitulating.

39:37I wonder as we sort of start to sift through the damage that Trump has done, how would you assess the amount of damage the capitulation and the practice and the normalization of capitulation? How much damage do you see that having done? Oh, it's pervasive and it's wretched and it's going to take America many years to dig our way out of the wreckage. I mean, just look at what he's done to the Department of Justice, which is much better described as a Department of Injustice today. It's just an instrument of the president's political vengeance and the president's political will to attack his enemies and you think about the number of people who've been falsely accused, falsely investigated, falsely prosecuted, you know, James Comey, Latisha, James Adam, Schiff, Maggie Goodland or Jason Crowe, it just goes on and on. And those are just the names you know, I mean, think about my constituent, Davey Hurn, who they actually tried to set up for the reflecting pool job.

40:39When, of course, it was Donald Trump and his pool guy from Mar-a-Lago who got the insider no bid contract for $15 million to change the color of the reflecting pool to something more to the liking of the king. And then, of course, they turned it into an algae farm and then wanted to blame their own negligence on an innocent U.S. citizen. So, I mean, what we're talking about, serious demolition of major parts of the government and the justice system. I mean, look at the federal agencies that have been torn down, USAID, and that has literally caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people across the world who don't have the benefit of the state of the state. The benefit of America's anti-Hunger campaign, anti-Malaria campaign, anti-HIV AIDS campaign and so on. So, it's going to be a very tall order for us. But the great thing, Nicole, is that everywhere I go in the country and I've been now to more than half of the state's campaigning, the country is turning against all of the authoritarianism and the wallessness.

41:46And that stiffens the resolve of the courts even more, including judges that were nominated at the bench by Trump himself. One of the things that feels like it's broken through along with the incredibly distressing reality of high gas prices, high grocery prices, high prices on just about everything a family needs to buy is that it's coupled with Trump's brazen corruption. But what he disclosed, what we know about is that he made, I don't know, over $2 billion, his first 15 months back in office, his sons who've never really been savants, have made hundreds of millions of dollars, and still have islands bought for them or rented out by Russian oligarchs. I mean, the grift is so ostentatious, it's so in your face. And I wonder how you begin to get justice for the American people for what has been stolen from them or profits that have been made in their name if Democrats take control of Congress.

42:47Well, discouragement is going to be a critical word and a critical concept as we move forward. But as you say, corruption is an essential component of authoritarianism. Authoritarianism is just government in the interests of a very small minority. And of course, that minority of people wants to enrich themselves. And what we've seen here is an operating principle of government where all it does is to serve as an instrument for the self enrichment of the president. And his sons and his family and his close friends and their businesses. He admits to having made more than $2 billion from these utterly crooked crypto deals. And of course, they were dropping investigations against crypto culprits. They were pardoning crypto criminals and so on. But if you do the math on $2 billion, the president has been making more than $2 billion. And he's been making more than $1 million in an hour since he took office.

43:48A million dollars an hour on the theory of, cheertably speaking, a 40-hour work week. So if you assume he's working 40 hours, in addition to the money he draws from his handsome White House salary of $400,000, he was making more than double that each hour that he's been in office since he took office. This is corruption on an immense scale, unlike anything we've ever seen before in U.S. history. And of course, they're going to try to use all of this money in the remaining weeks of the campaign, somehow to pull the wool over the eyes of the American people who have woken up to the outrageous inflation to the illegal, unconstitutional catastrophic war in Iran, which closed the strait of war mose. And to the corruption, which as you say, has utterly saturated the government of the United States. That figure is amazing, a million dollars an hour. It isn't enough though. He also wants his name on everything.

44:49How do we protect our landmarks and our monuments from him slapping his name on all of them? Yeah, well, every dictator wants to control the capital city and every dictator and despot wants to place the imprint of their own narcissistic self-image on the capital city. And so we've seen this in the reflecting pool, which we call the Strait of Warm Use, we've seen it with the Kennedy Center. Now, his threat to tear down the Kennedy Center, if he can't slap his name on it as a legal scoff-log graffiti, he'll just knock it down. We saw it in terms of the demolition of the East Wing of the White House. I mean, if you can bulldoze the East Wing, then obviously you can bulldoze the West Wing. There's nothing in the Constitution about the East Wing or the West Wing. So you can just demolish the whole thing. You could burn it down. Like this is the war of 1812 and you're the British. He wants an arch that is objected to by veterans groups, community groups in Washington, D.C. by the airport authorities who are trying to have safe flight passage there.

45:56And he says when it's objected that there's a code problem, he says, I am the code. Leitas, say moi. So now he's talking about Ford's theater, which is just obscene, obviously the site of the assassination of Abraham Lincoln by John Wilkes Booth. But there would be a kind of fitting symmetry to it because Abraham Lincoln created the Republican Party and Donald Trump has destroyed it. And so I can see maybe why he wants his name up there with Abraham Lincoln because that is the beginning and the end of the Republican Party. There's no way he knows any of those words in French and there's no way he understands the symmetry. But I appreciate the point very much. I'm Congressman Jamie Roskin. Thank you so much for being here today. We'll pull Rick into all of this on the other side of a very short break. Don't go anywhere. For back with Rick Stingle, I mean, Rick, if I learn anything in a decade of covering Trump, it's that we cannot rest on the sort of righteousness of our arguments or the victories in court because they'll come up with something more maniacal tomorrow.

47:08Yes. As as eloquent as Congressman Roskin was about all the damage that he's doing and how long it will take. I'm much more worried about the damage he could do in the next month, the next six weeks, approaching the midterms. So just the way he disregards the first amendment in terms of freedom of the press. He disregards every constitutional amendment and he disregards the rule of law and he tests against it. So what I fear is with the midterms that he will not abide by the rule of law. The fact that he talks about the nationalization of elections is an unconstitutional idea. It's constitution says that states run it. So and it's not so much that he wants to actually steal the election. He wants to create chaos in a kind of put nest way turn America into a failed state. So he becomes a strong man. That story in the Atlantic about the potential of declaring martial law using the insurrection act. He operates on on whims and that one day that whim is so strong he can do that. That's what I really worry about.

48:10What do you make of him being with she today and acting as though we're already an on a credit society? Just such a fundamental misunderstanding of what America stands for. I mean he's campaigning against communists of whom there about seven in the whole country and then he treats a communist with the with a full sum hug and and and with envy. I mean we've never had a president like Covets what she has. Covets that authoritarian authority. We've never had an American president who's done that before. Where do we go from here? We have to secure the election. We have to elect the Democratic House and Senate. We have to begin to turn back these things. But you know we can't declare that America is back the instant back inside baby all fine. Yes. No. There's a lot of work to do. Thank you so much for right here. Thank you so much coming up next for us. How Trump's attacks on the press could be endangering press all over the world.

49:11Our dear friends Sue Warden joins us next. I think we should have an open relationship. Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Let's definitely do that. With our cars. Oh Flex car. Yeah that's what I meant too. Flex car is the first and only month to month carlies. Swing from a Wrangler one month to a Prius the next. Flex car. You drive everything.