Pennsylvania Woodsman - Stop Overthinking Your Western Hunt

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3:09Trading always involves risk, complete loss can occur. The $50 offer is issued as non-withdrawable trading credit for use on the platform. From unforgiving terrain and limited time, on the heartwood ridges of the northeast, real woodsmen are made. This is the Pennsylvania woodsman. A podcast rooted in one of the hardest-hundred regions of the country. We're working people scout after work, hunt when they can, and earn everything that woods give them. Beyond seasons, success, and tradition, what's shaping your pursuit. Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Pennsylvania woodsman. Glad you are joining us here on the final episode of September. And you know what that means. We are full bore this weekend, guys, and I am looking forward to it. The fall is on. It is hard to believe it is here, but you know what? I am thankful that it is. And I'm hoping to squeeze some hunts in myself. I've been trying to

4:10do a couple of lag tag hunts here and there, have not been able to put a deer on the ground. Some of that was self-inflicted. Some of it's just bad luck, but that's okay. I've been having fun. I'm looking forward to Archery Hunt and Man, I've been shooting my bow pretty well. Happy with how that's going. And I am looking forward to trying to put something on the ground here in the world of white tails. And I got a couple of deer on my mind. I'm not going to lie. There's a couple of deer or just areas stand locations in mind that I think of the potential for a buck, but man, I need some deer meat. So, doe is looking good. And the other thing that is super, super exciting for me is I just did my first round of baiting in New Jersey for the bear season. As many of you guys know, if you listen for a while, I have been doing a New Jersey bear hunt for a number of years now. You were legally allowed to bait in that state. You just cannot sit within a hundred yards of the bait location while actively bear hunting. But no harm to foul. I have it set up in a way that I would be

5:17able to get I would be able to get access on the trails leading to the bait with, you know, outside of that hundred yard limit. And within two hours, I had a bear on one of my baits. But within 48 hours, all the baits were hit and some of them had some no doubt shooters on the baits. And I'm thinking what I'm planning on doing is I have a friend I'm taking and man, I just can't justify, you know, having myself sit first to try to get my own bear. I think I'm going to sit with with my buddy Nick for first couple sits and try to film him get his first bear. And then when he is hopefully successful in tags of bear, I am going to shift gears and then I'll try. And I'll probably I'm not sure if I'm going to take my bow or take the muzzle loader. That's still undecided. But regardless man, getting all these bear pictures man, I am jacked up and excited. Hunting season is exciting. And you know, bear was a new thing for me a few

6:23years ago. So far, hunting was hard as I've been and taking a little bit more seriously. And I think it was a little bit of the new species thing that just got me hooked and doing something a little bit different. You know, I think about that all the time of hunting new species and getting outside my comfort zone, doing some new things. And I think it ties really well into this week's episode. This week we are deviating from our eastern type of hunting. This week we live Josh Craig on Josh is a leader of western hunter 101. Now Josh is your typical white tail hunter. He's just like you and me. He's a good dude at a fun conversation with him. But he loves going out and hunting west the western states. Mildere elk you name him. And they've put together something that I think we're going to you're going to enjoy. It's pretty cool. All about trying to take down the complexity, the confusing parts of hunting in the west and how to break it down to make an enjoyable hunt for yourself. If you're an out of stator, but you want to go explore hunting western

7:28game species. And we're going to talk about anything and everything under the sun from getting started to what western hunter 101 is all about. And it's definitely one of those things that you want to keep in your bag backlog. If you decide you're going to be doing a western hunt anytime soon. So thanks again for tuning into this episode. So guys, please check out hunt worth. We are team minus a very, very short amount of time. But you can still get capitalized on a couple of really cool discounts that they have on huntworthgear.com. Some pretty substantial savings. But check out the hunt worth gear. I've been wearing their stuff for a number of years. Warm, comfortable, and all around good for the price. And also check out little mountain outfitters. Little mountain outfitters at Richland, Pennsylvania is a bow shop that is run by fantastic people, experts. And man, the small business, but man, they got anything and everything bow hunting. Check them out

8:28and use the code woodsman10 to check out if you purchase online and you can save yourself 10%. Thanks again for tuning into this week's episode. Guys, I really hope you enjoy it. Take care and have a great week. Hey, here we go again with another one. And this week's guest, I have Josh Craig on the show. Josh, thanks for coming on. What's going on? Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Not much. Just rolling with the heat wave here, Missouri. I was going to say so heat wave. So you're from Missouri and you're saying heat wave. We actually this past week has been one of those weeks where I say, you say, man, why can't the weather be like this all the time? I'm waking up and it's in the upper 40s in the morning. It's bluebird crystal days. You got that cool feeling. There's critters moving. It's been sunny and you know, very high pressure. It's just been beautiful. All right, but I know I'm speaking with some of my friends in text message you throughout the Midwest. And I know parts of the Midwest and like down into Texas and stuff is just riddled with

9:33dry and heat and miserable. So what are you experiencing right now? Yeah, so it's pretty dry. We've had a few pop-up showers this week. I had a mylo food plot that failed this summer. So we just, we read you that and honestly, I wanted to have it in a month ago, but it's just been so dry. Was no point in messing with it. And then like this week, I think we've been right at 102 days in a row. As far as temperature goes, but let's see, I think Sunday morning. No, it might have been Monday morning. woke up and it was about 60 degrees. It was real nice. The first kind of chilly morning we've had. So that was kind of exciting and then it then it jumped way up the next couple days. So Yeah, it's it never makes its mind up. And summer sometimes has its last hurried feels in the month of September. At least here it doesn't pens me. But you know, Josh, we've had

10:34an array of guests over the years. We've had people from the Midwest, the West, but as you can imagine, we talk a lot about the the Easting. You guys approached me and had a great idea for a show that I'm looking forward to recording with you. But why don't we get started? Why don't you introduce yourself and let people know who you are and what you got going on? Okay, sure. Yeah. So I'm Josh. I started Western 101. It's shoot. It's I don't know time passes so fast. I guess it's been three or four years now since we kind of got the idea and got started. And it really is kind of kind of born out of my own experience. So I'm from the Midwest. So I don't live in the West either. You know, I know a lot of guys spend a lot of years dreaming about going out West and hunting out. You know, Elk's kind of the big one. That's the sexy one everybody wants because he's the big

11:37guy. But there's so many of us that don't have that backyard. That's kind of a dream trip for a lot of us. You know, and I spent a lot of years dreaming out of the outdoor channel. And actually when I was a kid, we didn't even have the outdoor channel. It was I think it was TNN had like a Saturday morning show, you know, like in the morning, be like, hey, to noon. So so that's kind of where where I kind of got started. Even even consuming content and a lot of hunting magazines, you know, like where I was in school, especially middle school, I'd check out, you know, like Peter Sintani and all those types of magazines, you know, because we didn't have we didn't have the internet. And at least not like we do now. So yeah, I it's been a lot of years dreaming about it. And actually was when I got out of high school, I was actually supposed to go to hunting guide school. My dad and I

12:37between my junior and senior year, we went to Montana and we visited a couple of different guide schools. And that was kind of my plan. And life happened and I ended up not going to do that. I always kind of regretted it. But I always had that kind of mentality, you know what I mean? Because most of the most of the shows we watch, you know, now that we've got YouTube and things like that, we see a lot more a lot more guys, you know, going out and doing it, you know, they're just hunters. But back then there was a lot of guides involved with that. So I kind of always had that mentality, you know, you had to have a guide to go. And you know, with life and and getting started and having careers and and owning businesses and having kids and money's not always, you know, readily available. And some of those hunts get pretty pricey, you know. So I spent a lot of years dreaming about going, not even realizing that I could just go. And so then

13:43so we actually, my wife and I, we spent a lot of time out west backpacking and hiking and stuff like that, just not actually hunting because again, like I said, it was always that kind of need a guide mentality. And I finally, I don't know, I was about 30, I guess. And I realized I'm not getting any younger, you know, putting these packs on and and hiking and stuff, you know, I just, I know I'm not going to be able to do this forever. If I'm going to do this, I need to, I need to do it. And so I actually planned my first outcome in 30 days. So we were out in September and I ended up going back in October from my first outcome. And of course, it, you know, we didn't kill anything, but it was probably the best one I ever did because it showed me that, hey, I can go do this. And then, you know, from there, I just, I'm one of those guys. I'll get just completely engulfed with something and and I had a lot of time to take in a lot of podcasts and just a lot of hunting content

14:48in general, but as time went on, I wanted to do better and better hunts and without having points and things like that. So I had to learn all of that, you know, kind of along the way. And one thing I realized once I once I got everything figured out and we were rolling really well in that is not really that hard. It's intimidating if you don't know what you're doing. And from there, you know, I started because there's so many groups like Facebook groups and things like that, you know, Colorado, all Connors, you know, whatever, just there's all sorts of them out there. I see a lot of guys asking a lot of questions that and they just, they kind of get beat up in the comments section. You know, and they're, they're guys that are not, it's not that they aren't willing to put in the work. A lot of times, this guy's just don't know what that work is. So you know, I started reaching out to some of those guys and and kind of helping them along and they

15:49just kind of morph into, hey, let's do something where we can actually help people. And so I actually went and I took a course to learn. So this is all over my head. I'm a blue collar guy. I grew up on my family's farm here in the Midwest. I've worked construction. I own construction businesses. You know, I'm just a blue collar guy like everybody else. So all this recording videos and all of this stuff is kind of all new to me. Definitely, definitely out of my comfort zone, you know, with with some of it getting started here. But we've been doing it for a while now. So I'm a little bit over over some of that. But, but yeah, I know I kind of, I took a course to learn how to actually put it together because I want it to be and what I mean by good is I wanted guys to actually be able to take it and and be able to use it to, you know, so they could be confident and getting started. A lot of it, it seems like there's a lot of gatekeepers to it. Even when you consume a lot of

16:53content on YouTube or whatever, you know, they just don't quite give you the answer you need. They give you just enough rope to hang yourself. That's a great point. You know what I mean, they just kind of kind of hold back on something. I'm like, I wanted to I wanted to get past that. And there's a lot of stuff out there for the actual hunt itself, you know, as far as tactical type stuff, you know, as far as like call and elk or, you know, in the field stuff, the fun stuff. But nobody really gets into the the planning of, of, you know, what tags a guy can actually get, you know, how to kind of go about all of that. So that's kind of what I set out to do. And yeah, they just kind of let us to where we are today. It's so funny because I'm hearing two sides of the spectrum when it comes to content and, you know, the information that we can consume and help us as hunters. Because on one hand,

17:55here I am a podcast host that is, you know, interviewing people that we get tactics, we get advice, we get experience, we get information. And you think about me, I mean, I'm a dime. It doesn't. I mean, there's so many shows and good shows out there. And there's so much information via social media. And we're at a day and age where we everybody has everything. And it's almost to the point where there's two things that come them on. So almost to the point where everyone's an expert. And with that, there's so much information. It's so hard to take the complex, massive data set and break it down into something that's not complex, put it into something simple and actionable. And with that, as you were talking about the magazines, you were talking about TNN, the outdoor life and some of that stuff where I vividly remember going to high school and having study halls.

18:55And when I was supposed to be catching up on math or social studies work or doing some kind of assignment that I usually neglected to the last minute, I was reading Bow Hunter magazine. And that was a magazine that reading Cameron Hayes and Dwight Shoe and Kurt Wells and some of those guys and reading those articles and getting this holistic bow hunting experience and Western experiences and stuff like I just ate that up every little bit and I couldn't get enough. And now like, well, we're at the other side of that. And I don't know how to handle it sometimes because I had a little bit of nostalgia as you were talking about that about how good and much I miss that drive of the unknown. Yes, yeah, I agree 100% with that. And I kind of feel like I talked a lot of new guys that they want to go out west. So I get this a lot. And I think we're to a point where there's so much information that we're scared that we don't have

20:00enough. Like we're not, I don't know because it's so readily available, we can just pick up our phone and look up anything we want to look up right now that if it is something that is unknown that we have to figure out, it almost puts fear in the guys. I don't know if that makes any sense, but but I feel like that's, I feel like that's almost turned into a crutch now. Oh, it absolutely has. I mean, you hit the nail on the head there. We have more information now than we ever had as a hunter to make decisions. And yet I'm guilty of this myself at times, but I don't think I'm as bad as other people I've met and I don't mean to be point fingers and comparing and stuff, but the reality of it is with all that information, sometimes it is hard to make a decision. I get in with my day, my line of work, you know, I work with farmers in road crop farmers and trying to drive profitability and yield. And you know, farmers get consumed by

21:03every retailer trying to sell them a product, trying to do all these things. Of course, the weather is what drives the chaos and farming. And there's all these variables and it gets to be this huge, complex thing. And even though I've learned more from my farmers than they've learned from me over the years, at the same time, being decisive is not easy in those environments. And you can flip that over to the hunting world with the information we have. If you're trying to learn something new, if you're trying to, you know, take your stuff to the next level, there's so many opinions, and there's a lot of good information you got to learn context. It's just complex, right? And that's that's obviously where you come in in a lot of senses, right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we just, we just break it down to this is just it's as simple as this. And a lot of times, you know, it almost feels elementary down to some of those levels, like it seems like

22:07there are just things that guys probably already know, or at least I feel like they probably do, but they just don't think about it because they've kind of blown it up into this big thing that it's just it doesn't have to be. And I think if a guy will really just step back and go hunting and learn from what he's doing, I think it's going, I think we almost need to get back to that. I really do. I think there's, I think we're trying to, I think we're trying to get too much off of the internet and off of content. And we're not taking enough practicality of just getting out and doing the thing. And honestly, that's one of the big drivers with with this, or you know, even why I do this is I waited a long time, you know, I wasted a good 10, 12 years of not going when I could have just been going that where I could have actually learned

23:12how to hunt elk, you know, I was already 12 years behind, we were actually learning how to hunt elk just because I was overwhelmed by the information that I needed to know to even get there. And that's, you know, that's a lot of what we do is I just want to break it down real simple, like this is what this is what we need to do, you know, like we start out with tags. I've just, I got my course pulled up here right now. So the very first thing we do is first tag options, you know, a guy with zero points, which is where most guys are and over the counter options. What's even out there? And beyond that, you need to pick a spot and go, you know, like there's only so much you can learn online and we've got a lot more, we've got 13 hours of stuff and we meet every week and we talk, you know, every single week, but you if you don't get out and actually hunt, you're never going to learn how to do it. Oh, that's a great point. And Josh, I've said this on my show before and I think it applies here and it's interesting. I feel because we've

24:20got so much information because we're all connected somehow, some way that makes the pace of life go faster. We jam pack more into things because we're more efficient so there before we can do more. And when you get to the hustle and bustle of it, I think the hustle and bustle is the greatest, it's peaked in my life at this point. And I don't see the, I don't see the bottom from where I'm at in that. And I think that puts this mental thing in like with all the stuff going on my life, I got to get it done. So I got to do everything right. I can't mess up because I want to be successful. And you know, that goes back to, you know, we've had these conversations. A lot of time when we set success successes, we fill a tag and don't get me wrong. That's what all of us are out there for. But if that's the only thing that's going to make the hunt successful, nine times out of 10 for me, I've made it more stressful than it needs to be and I don't make the process fun. And hunting is supposed to be fun. And I think one of the things is with, with

25:27the combined pace of life, I only got five days to do it. I got to make it happen. So therefore, I'm going to drive out and I'm going to be sleep deprived and put myself in situations where I'm physically not where I'm supposed to be. And I'm already not mentally where I'm supposed to, because it's new and I'm consuming too much. And it's a recipe to set yourself up for not the best. But we do it all the time. And I think the pace of life has to happen. So when you start thinking about mindset, you know, what do you communicate to somebody like it? Like Josh, I want to go meal dear hunting. I want to go meal dear hunting with my bow. And I want to kill one. I want to shoot a nice buck with my bow. I don't care the state. And I just want to experience spot and stock in and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'd love to have a meal dear on my wall. What's some of the stuff that you're going to talk to somebody like me who's new? I've never mealed there, hunted. I don't know how to meal dear hunting. Yes, I can bow hunt. I understand you have senses, you know, I've hunted Eastern deer, but there's a lot of nuances. So how are you going to

26:32communicate to me or to anybody that's asking you a question similar? How to set your mindset up? Yeah. So, um, obviously the first thing you got to do is you've got to figure out what tag you're going to put your pocket, whether that's going to be, uh, you know, if you if you just brand new at this, um, you're going to have to be realistic as what that experience is going to be, um, because a lot of these, a lot of these hunts require points to draw tags or they don't, you're going to be dealing with a lot of a lot of company, you know, while you're out there, there's going to be a lot of pressure. Um, and the chances are it's probably not going to be the, the dream hunt that you dream of. Um, and what I relate to a lot of guys, so, uh,

27:34lead back up for a second. So I think where a lot of people kind of confuse me is because we do do a lot of DIY stuff. I mean, that is kind of kind of what we're geared to do. Um, but I'm also absolutely not against a guy using a guide. And, uh, a lot of this all still pertains, um, whether you go DIY or guided, you know, basically the majority of it is going to be the same, um, the same system that you're going to have to go through or the same, I don't know, a system might not be the right word, but the same, uh, or a steps that you're going to have to go through to get there. Um, but I would say, um, you know, first thing is, is you need to, to tag it in real perspective. How, how important is it is you, is it for you to fill that tag versus having the experience? Um, if, if, if filling the tag is what is most important to you, uh, I would say you should probably go with a guide first, um, just because there is such a learning curve to go

28:39in somewhere other than where you're used to hunting. Um, I think a lot of what we do as hunters, as far as our, uh, woodsmanship is relevant, no matter whether you're in Montana, Colorado, Missouri, Pennsylvania, I think, uh, I think as hunters, we all have that capability of understanding the wind, um, you know, understanding animal behavior and, uh, just even with putting a stalk on or anything, you know, we, we all kind of have that understanding, um, other than adult onset hunters, which I do get quite a few of those. Um, but yeah, uh, I would say, uh, you know, the first thing is, figure out what that animal needs. When, when you draw that tag, because there's, so, so we're talking Mule deer, you know, there's so many variations of places they could be. I mean, they could be

29:41out on the desert, um, valley floors, uh, above timber line, you know, there's, there's a wide, there's such a wide variety of places they could be. Um, the biggest thing is learn the animal, what they need, um, and, and what their behavior is. Now that makes perfect sense. And that goes back to woodsman and taking something simple. What are other things? Josh, it come to your mind. What are, what are common? Things got guys screw up on when they get started with trying to do western hunting or a misconception that they have that they have to overcome or learn in order to go to the next step and in being successful in whatever they dub is being a success in this process. Yeah. So one of the biggest mistakes I see most guys is getting wrapped up in gear. Um, that's, that's probably the number one thing I see as far as a, a mistake would be is thinking that any piece of gear is going to

30:44going to make or break your hunt. That that's probably the number one issue that I see with guys is, is, uh, is leaning too hard on gear and less into their, their woodsman chip and just, just hunting. Um, and then from there, I would say probably east counting is next. Um, that's another area that a guy's gets, uh, that I believe a guy gets kind of overly wrapped up in. Um, and it's a little bit different out less than it is for, um, a lot of us, there's probably different and pencil vain you too than even what I'm, um, used to hear Missouri, you know, when you talk about white tails. So like here, you could go sit on about any acre for a week and chances are you could probably kill a deer, you know, you're probably not going to kill a mature buck or a, a, a booner, but you're going to have an opportunity to shoot a deer. They're just so dense, you know, across the landscape where as out west, um, the landscape is much more vast than the animals just

31:45live on so much smaller, um, or they, they consume a much smaller percentage of the landscape. Um, so I think east counting is another place a guy can get overly wrapped up and, and maybe spend a little too much time versus just getting out and, and, uh, you know, putting his eyes on the country and actually hunting it. Hmm. So thinking out loud, you know, let's just use me as an example and, you know, people can derive and relate to that however they will, but mealtere. You know, somebody like myself or I want to archery mealtere hunt and I don't, uh, I don't really have, um, like a, a trophy class. I mean, I'd like to shoot the right buck and I'll know it when I see it kind of deal, but, you know, have it a place where I say I don't know that I want to go on a hunt. I'd love to not be, uh, fighting people, but I know you're going to see people on public land. I understand that, but, um, having a place where the setting isn't as important, you know, you

32:47think about where mealtere live, you know, desert southwest, like you said, uh, parts of the rolling hills in the Midwest, you know, parts of Nebraska and stuff like that. You get into high country mealtere, you get into stuff in the upper part of the country, Montana, you get Missouri river breaks to the Rockies and all kinds of stuff. There's so many different places. And what happens for me is because you've got so many different states, so many different regulations, that's one of the things that overwhelms me. It's time for fall food plots and I encourage you to look no further this year than planning vitalized seeds carbon load. Guys, this is a highly diverse plant mix of greens, grasses, brassicas and legumes that is extremely winter hearty. It gives great tonnage and it's browsed, hollering. This thrives after the nitro boost and it acts as a weed barrier in the springtime and not to mention all the benefits it does for your native wildlife, giving ample tonnage and sequestering nutrients from deep within the soil. Check it out at vitalizedc.com

33:52where you can get your order today and learn more about soil health and providing great tonnage to wildlife this fall. Different point systems, different deadlines and stuff. And I know there's a lot of western hunting resources out there. So talk to me about resources that are out there and talk to me like what you provide. Like what how do I navigate that when it comes to making my decisions to understand opportunity with this, you know, whatever, 10 states that I could go hunting in? Sure. Yeah. So the number one tool I think to use when evaluating that stuff. And I've used them all. There's probably new ones that are coming out that I haven't used yet. So I guess I'm using the word all a little loosely there. But Go Hunts, probably the best one in my opinion. And that's one we

34:58do kind of teach on some is kind of navigating through that. And it's not so much that kind of getting back to what we kind of where we started this conversation with all the extra information that's out there, just the overload of information that's out there is one thing I'm sure you've probably noticed. They kind of speak a different language out there. It's almost it's got its own lingo. And once you kind of get the lingo figured out, you could hop in to Go Hun and you could just it would be a breeze. It's just super easy to understand. The for a guy that's never done it and never used it, even using the best and it's even the simplest tool, you know, in my opinion, it's probably the simplest laid out. I don't know how you could do it any easier than than how they they have it set up. But even for, you know, for a guy that doesn't know what any of that means, it's still pretty confusing. So that's one thing that we do

36:03teach on quite a bit is just how to navigate their website and what that kind of means. And you know, between their filtering tools, their draw on tools and how all that works. Because yeah, you kind of hit the nail on the head there when you talk about all of the different different states and they all have a different set of rules. You know, some use preference points, some use bonus points, some use bold, some use them in a different style in a different different way that each state uses them. So you know, a guy that wants to go, but in my opinion, and this is just my opinion, nothing scientific about it, but I think a guy needs to know that he wants to hunt in first. I think that's probably more important than the species or what what that species actually needs or even what that particular country holds that that, you know, that animal actually needs, you know, that lives there. I think the I think the

37:06setting is, excuse me, I'm taking my throat there, I think the setting is probably the number one most important thing for a new guy. And the reason I say that, you mentioned several different ones, you know, you've got high country, you've got the plains of, you know, Nebraska or the desert Southwest. There's there's a wide variety of topography, vegetation types, you know, whole nine yards. But I the reason I think that's the most important is because one of the hardest things about doing a western hunt is the the mental side of it. You know, there, there's a lot of work involved in a hunt. You're you're away from home, you know, you're you're running low on sleep, you're probably not eaten enough. So just the mental grind of what a western hunt is. And I don't say that to make it sound like it's hard because it's not it's not that it's that hard, but it does wear on you. And

38:06a lot of guys will give up before the hunt's over because it's tough, you know, the opportunities are not or I guess they're they can be few and far in between. You know, getting back to to what I said earlier about that they, you know, they don't have that they're just not as spread out on the landscape is what we're used to. So, you know, the opportunities are a few and there they can be. And can you still hear me? I think your buds just died. I can still hear you and actually, I hear you better. You were cutting in a little bit toward the end there. They must have been them trying to die. I'll just take that out. But yeah, no, so getting back to that. So a lot of guys will kind of kind of give up. And honestly, the end of the hunt, I think your odds are a little higher toward the end of a hunt versus the first day of the hunt. And that's kind of backwards to what a lot of our probably general rule of thumb is or are, you know, the way we've always been taught

39:11or brought up because, you know, there's something special about opening day. You know, the the animals they just, they have had no pressure up until that point. And you're hunting an animal that's, you know, had no pressure, had no, you know, hasn't been pushed around at all. But when it comes to hunting out west, being that far away from home in a completely different place, each day, you're building on your knowledge of that particular place, you know, you're checking off places that maybe don't hold animals or that do. So you're kind of always building on that knowledge of the area that you're in. And you actually have, in my opinion, and from my experience, you have a better chance of success, the further you go into your hunt versus the beginning, especially if it's a place you've never been before. So when I say that I think that the actual place, the terrain, you know, hunting in a spot that looks like what you've always dreamed over,

40:14what you think it should look like, is so important is because it's going to keep you hunting. You know, I've showed up to places that looked absolutely nothing like what I expected them to on the map. And nothing like what I like to hunt. And I know that I do not put in the effort on those hunts that I do when I'm hunting in areas and hunting the way that I like to hunt. That makes a lot of sense. So you establish a setting that you want to hunt in. One thing I've noticed is a lot of people will, well, if you're if you're back east and you're planning a trip, a lot of time people plan to go with with other people, people they've hunted within the past, people that, you know, maybe they're in the same token, maybe they don't hunt with them, you know, on a regular basis, but they want to go, you know, on the same journey they're going on, so they think and they plan it with a group. That can be a really positive experience with hunting buddies. And sometimes that doesn't go that well because when you add adversity to a new

41:15trip and, you know, expectations may not be met in one way, shape or form. You put a new variable and when you put multiple people in there. So walk me through how you think about that and handle that when somebody's saying, hey, yeah, I'm planning on going this hunt, but, you know, I'm going with like three other buddies or three other guys I know from my area. Walk me through the watchouts from your point of view in that. So it's kind of funny. You say that because I just got off the phone last night with a guy. They're planning a Mule deer hunt night of this year. It's going to be the first trip for all of them. I think there were four in the group and he called me last night and they've all backed out on him. They haven't even got there yet. So yeah, it's, it can be a really big deal. And I've hunted with guys that just were not into the hunt the way that I was. And that can be a big, big time

42:16detriment, especially when, especially when you know that you should get somewhere, whether that be a glassy knob that you've picked out, you know, from home in your east counting or something that you've seen while you're there, you know, maybe you've glassed up some deer elk or whatever, you know, on the on the far side of the basin, you know, maybe you got a maybe it's a three mile trip around or something. And when you've got a guy with you, whether it's just a hunting partner or multiple guys, if you're hunting with somebody that's not willing to go there, that's going to be that's going to be such a detriment to, you know, you getting to the places you need to get. And it's going, it's really going to have an effect on your, your drive because, you know, then you're going to start thinking, well, maybe they're right or, you know, and there's a lot of variables to it, you know, before you go, one thing I look at or, or I guess I recommend is look at their home life.

43:24Their spouse is a big deal. And I don't, kind of like you were saying earlier, I don't like the point fingers. I don't like to, I don't want to stir anything up with anybody. But before you even ask them to go with you on a hunt, you know, look at their home life. Does their, does their wife kind of rule the rules? And that, you know, that, that's, that kind of sounds judgmental. But when, when they get there, if their wife's saying, hey, you need to come home and you've rode together, that's good to our wrench in your hunt. So, you know, look at their home life, look at, look at how they, how they kind of handle, handle that stuff. If you work with them or if you just friends with them, how do they handle adversity, you know, or they somebody that gets stressed out pretty easy, are they somebody that gets, gets mad, loses their temper, you know, or they are pretty calm, cool and collected and, you know, any situation, you want somebody that's

44:28solid, you want somebody that's, that's real solid with you. And that's a real tough thing to do. Because number one, I have always struggled to judge character of somebody, not from the sense of noticing when they have it, but, you know, I've always been pretty positive and optimistic with people. And when you get put into situations where you're, you're trying to think the best of somebody you want, it's, it's going to work out, it's going to, it's going to be the way it should. I have noticed that over time where I've hunted with people that were negative and it rubbed off on me to the point where I think back to some of the things I've said and people, you know, friends and hunting buddies have called me out on it to reality check like I am being negative for some stupid reason. And that's not normally like me. And I think back to why would that happen? It's because I'm surrounded or I'm in a situation where I'm around people who are also negative and it affects you greatly. And I have noticed last few years, especially, you always know

45:32this and when hunting because it's with it, but like the people that I hunt with that have a good positive attitude. Those are the people I want to keep going with. The ones that work hard, drive-har have a mindset of being driven. I always want to hunt with people who I think are more driven than me because that motivates me to keep going. And I try not to be the other way and that's, that's really hard to do. Yeah, it's, it's no fun to be the pusher. It's no fun to be the guy that is, you know, trying to push to, to get going that the guy that's trying to keep the morale up. Like you say, it's, it's so much better to hunt with somebody that might even have more drive than you do because then you're trying to keep up with them. And, you know, these hunts, you know, for, for guys like you and me that don't live there, you know, we're traveling to do this. We've got a lot of fuel expense, tag expense, you know, there's a lot, there's a lot invested.

46:34And, yeah, you definitely want to hunt with somebody that is going to, to push you to be better. Talked earlier about equipment and we're in a day and age where there is so much equipment. There's a lot of great equipment. We talk about information overload, we can get equipment overload. And there are pieces that I think you can get marketed into thinking. I mean, I'll give you a perfect example. I have a close, close friend who is currently al-cutting right now. He's in his 50s and his son went with him this year. Now, his son has typically hunted in Pennsylvania with a crossbow. He has, he has some complications physically that he's just chosen to use a crossbow. It's been an easier way for him to hunt and it's legal here. But where they are going hunting, he's required to shoot a compound. And he really wanted to go

47:39al-cutting with his dad. So, he started practicing, practiced with an old bow he had and then when he worked up to it, he decided he's going to buy a bow. And went to the bow shop and didn't pick any bows up, didn't look at anything. He just went, that's the one I want. That's all the accessories I want that come with it. He had no archery experience. He had no idea what all was out there. He just knew that was what he wanted because somebody marketed it to him. And I think about that instance with archery. And there are so many other things in the hunting world, backpacks, gear, clothing, and I'm sure in the camping world there's two. So, how do you take that piece? How do you break that piece down for a hunt like this? And I'm sure there's two sides of it, find, learn the hard way, or how do you work through somebody in those decisions? Sure. And that's kind of hard. That's one of those deals that I really kind of, I try, honestly, I tried to avoid it in the beginning because there's

48:45the biggest reason for that was because I deal with so many people that have such a vast difference in budgets. I've got friends that can literally go buy anything they want and they can buy a brand new, just complete set of everything. And then I've got other people that just don't, you know, they're putting gas in their truck and they're buying a tag and they're just making it with what they got and they're going hunting, you know, and there's everything in between. And so what I did, and that was one thing that always kind of bothered me about the hunting industry is, and I like gear, don't get me wrong. And I kind of, I kind of have to be careful because sometimes I almost sound like I'm beating a drum by saying you don't need all of this stuff to go, you know, I almost feel like I'm beating the cheap guy drum a little bit. But it kind of comes from, it kind of really stems from seeing so much online where guys are asking questions,

49:53especially guys that I can see that are on a budget, things like that. You know, they, for example, they might ask about a, what's a good budget piece of glass, you know, that's one that I see a lot. And I see so many people that will tell them just save your money until you can buy, you know, XYZ, you know, a Swaro, something or another, you know, you can aim off several different options there. But, but I don't like that idea of telling a guy to just save his money until he can buy this because that almost makes it sound like just save your money and stay home if you can't afford, you know, XYZ whatever it is, the KUU Puffy code, you know, Swaro's spotting scope, whatever. You can fill the blank with anything. And so, so I kind of, I kind of have to be a little bit careful here because I always sound like, like I'm saying you don't need this stuff and you do need stuff. I mean, you, you absolutely need some stuff to go. I mean, you need a pack. If you kill an elk, you have to have a way to get that thing back to the truck. You know what I mean? Like,

50:57you do need some stuff. You need a kill kit, you know, you need all, you know, there's definitely things that you do need. But you don't need the best of everything. And so what I do is, is I broke it down into basically kits, you know, like I'll read through them here. I got a kill kit, a tool kit, a fire kit, a water kit, food kit, first aid, charging and power kit, your sleeping kit, your truck kit, your clothes, your boots, your packs, your glass kit. And I go through and I just break that down of what tools you need, not necessarily the brand. Because I, you know, there's there's so many guys that I, and I consume a lot of content, you know, I'm just like anybody else. I like to, I like to consume a lot of hunting content. And I see a lot of guys that'll change what they're pushing, you know, whatever, whatever their sponsor is, they change like they change their underwear. And so which one really is the best, you know, um, the one I'm getting paid for,

52:00right? Exactly. The one I'm getting paid to say is, and that's what I say. There's so many, um, and even getting back to, you know, you mentioned like the whole camping side and stuff, you know, you could even take the, the, the skiing side or the hiking side of things. There's a lot of people that are out in the field. And it doesn't matter if we're talking about the west or the east or anywhere. There's a lot of people that are just out at different times of the year that don't have a clue what Kuyu is or what Swaro is or, you know, and they're out there with their, whatever clothes that they're wearing, you know, um, just say Puffycoats, for example, that's one, um, that we talk about quite a bit. I get a lot of questions about it. And um, you know, I, I, I hunt in a $50 Puffy coat. I'm not spending that much money for one. I don't need it. You know, I just use that for an example. But um, yeah, there's a lot of a lot of the hunting industry, um, is built off of selling

53:02stuff. 100%. I mean, that's marketing and it's finest. And that's in every industry. But the hunting industry, and I've said this one, I've had this conversation before like, you think about the population of the United States. Now that population, what percentage of those are hunters, right? How many, and you break that into license sales? I've always told figure 10%. Now of that 10% of that population, but just a large number, um, how many of those are guys that are consuming content religiously getting very serious. They're buying lots and lots of gear on a regular basis. They're, they're taking their hunting from I go hunting to I'm a hunter. And you know, I'll let you decide where that definition lies and changing for somebody because that part doesn't matter. But you know, um, it's a very small subset when you start breaking it down. Who are the people that are going to be buying it? And there are, there's definitely something to be said. And I've been

54:03guilty of this as a, as a, you know, as a younger person. They hold where I get the more. I've got stuff. I don't need to keep buying something new. I mean, I saw a joke the one day white tail. Uh, it was a, it was like a meme or something of like white tail hunter spending, uh, $500 this year to drop point two pounds to their day pack or their, their, their mobile setup that they have. And like, that's a real reality where we think stats and everything else is better. But you know, I've got some equipment that works for me. And I don't need to keep spending more and more money. But we got to market it to sell it because if we can't sell it, we're not going to make money. And we can't, we can't be profitable. If we can't be profitable, we can't keep a business going. And it's this vicious cycle. And I mean, it's just the way it is. And, and, and in order for us to keep buying gears, we have to make it better because there's a small subset and some of the stuff we're getting works really well. And if I have it once, I don't need to keep getting it. Yeah, yeah, it's definitely a vicious cycle. And, you know, and they do, they have to, they have to

55:07sell stuff and, and the guys that are putting out a lot of really good content, you know, a lot of those guys have sponsors. And they wouldn't be able to put out the content that they do if they didn't have those sponsors. Exactly. You know, so it's, uh, it's, it's definitely, it's definitely one of those love hate relationships. Absolutely. Well, Josh, we've talked about a lot of things that have just been on my mind as somebody coming from the east and going hunting out west and doing some planning. You know, we talk gears and stuff, gear and, uh, tags and, you know, all those sorts of things. And there's a ton more we could talk about here. And, uh, you know, throughout this conversation, you've referenced a lot about Western hunter 101 and you've referenced things through that. So, um, maybe I need to backped a little bit, but I think, because we've been flirting around it. Talk a little bit more about Western hunter 101. You know, you've talked about classes and communicating with people and packages and stuff. So like, what the, what do you have to offer people?

56:07And what else should we be discussing in this conversation when it comes to thinking about planning my first or my next best Western hunt? Sure. Well, let's, um, before I talk about Western hunter, um, let's, let's hit that last thing that you, uh, mentioned there as far as what a guy actually needs. And you know, what, what a guy needs is he needs a tag. He needs a place to go. And the next two biggest things he needs both involve working on himself. I, I don't get it, I, I don't know, I don't really know how to say this. Um, the blunt way is the best way. So we do get into all of this other stuff. Like, you know, in Western hunter 101, I've, I've got 13 hours of free recorded training where we talk about basically everything you need to plan and execute your hunt. But the biggest things are really what you can do for yourself.

57:10Um, and that is getting yourself in the best possible physical shape you can get in. And practicing with your weapon in various field positions. And what I mean is not standing in your backyard, you know, shooting your boat 20, 30, 40 yards flat footed. And I don't mean shooting your rifle off of a bench. Um, because one thing that I have noticed over the years that out of all of my experience is the opportunities that you do get. And I did mention this earlier was their few and they're far in between. And I can assure you I have messed up on way more opportunities because I wasn't ready. Then I have capitalized on like by far. There's no no comparison. And you know, as far as as far as what a guy actually needs is he needs a tag in his pocket. He needs a place to go. And he needs to be in the best physical shape he can get in. And he needs to be

58:10very proficient with his weapon. Other than that, I think the rest of it a lot of times take care of itself. That makes a lot of sense. Um, yeah. I mean, you think about a lot of places. I went on, I went on one western hunt in my life. I went on a guided elk hunt in eastern Montana. Um, I didn't have to do a lot of physical preparation because I was in decent physical shape. And the places that I've hunted in Pennsylvania are more physically demanding than the places I hunted in Montana. Um, so I was at a major advantage to that and I was proficient with my weapon. But there was a lot of nuances of the hunt that I didn't know on us. Thankful that I had a guide to kind of bounce with and have a good experience for. But one of the reasons I chose to go in that region of the country was because I've heard people talk about high country, Rockies, very, very challenging physical hunts,

59:12altitude sickness. And I'm very confident it's something I would be able to do and overcome. It's not that I couldn't do it. It's the fear of the unknown until you get there, right? So I've been in a situation here more recently where feeling prepared is harder to get with everything else going on in my day to day life. So when you think about some of the most extreme western hunting experiences or physically challenging experiences you've had, set the bar set the stage when you think about what gets you prepared. And maybe you can kind of tune out too when you think about people you've worked with or spoken with. Like what's a general sense of when do you know when you're prepared? It's so for me, you know, like you guys have in Pennsylvania, like you just said you've got a lot rougher terrain than what even Eastern Montana has.

1:00:12You know, where I am in Missouri and a lot of guys in more of the Midwest and kind of the plains type area, it's flat. I don't know if we ever truly get prepared. If that makes any sense, I just don't know that you can actually truly get. You just can't reenact that at home. It doesn't matter how many stairs you have to go up and down. There's a lot of things that we can do and that we should do. But as far as setting the bar, you know, just do as much as you can with what you have available to you. And when you get there, the biggest thing is when you get there is don't overdo it. You can always set your pace and just don't push yourself. You know, you mentioned altitude sickness. A few years ago, had a guy in our group,

1:01:15he went home after two days because he got altitude sickness. He just couldn't make it. And he was by far the least physically fit of the group. And he was trying to keep up with the rest of us. And, you know, he just he wasn't, wasn't prepared. He wasn't going at his pace. Had he been going at his pace, he would have been a lot better off and probably would have been able to finish his hunt. But that's a big thing is is is do what you can with what you've got. And then don't don't overdo it when you get there. That's a great piece of advice. You know, as we're closing in on an hour and I want to be mindful of your time, what are a couple of the things you'd like to share with people, whether it's just antics about hunting the west of the things that people don't think of or things more on the western 101 side that you'd like to share with us. Sure. So, yeah, just in western 101, we're we're not super new. You know, we've we have been doing this

1:02:16a couple years, but we've just kind of launched it this year to the to the kind of general public. You know, we've got about 25 guys in our group right now. Most of them have been in for a couple years now. Fairly, fairly successful guys. They've done really well the last couple of years. But yeah, so we we we've kind of we've kind of learned a lot this year just with trying to to figure out marketing and how to actually get in front of people and all that kind of stuff. So we're still very, very new when it comes to that and we've kind of kind of changed around our structures and stuff of how we do stuff. We just now started a monthly membership versus just buying in. And you know, like I said, we do have 13 hour plus hours of the training.

1:03:18I guess I call it training is just pretty recorded information about how to go through basically everything to plan an execute your hunt. But the big thing that we do is once a week, we meet via Zoom and we just answer questions. You know, everybody in there all started in the same place. You know, nobody nobody was born and raised out west and and you know, was basically handed a lot of this, you know, hand me down information in places. You know, everybody in there all all started from the same place that, you know, any new guy that wants to wants to go is. And yeah, it's a it's a it's a really neat kind of, trying to trying to think of the best way to describe this without sounding too mushy, gushy, but you know, we call it the full sin brotherhood and it really is that. It can be as sometimes we'll meet and there'll be six or eight guys on. Sometimes it's just me and one

1:04:20other guy and we can really get into planning their hunt and and kind of have one on one. So it's pretty it can be pretty intimate at times. And yeah, we just we just really really want to see guys get out and and and do it. I love that. I mean, sometimes just a little kick in a rear end is what you need in cases. And I think when you have fellowship and that's one of the things I've noticed about in a lot of aspects of life, going back to my job and going back to making farms profitability. It's so hard to get outside of your head and outside of your little world. And sometimes being vulnerable and collaborating with people, even when it's tough, even when it's vulnerable, I think it opens up opportunity that you wouldn't have otherwise had to ask some ask some maybe dumb questions silly questions and you take that into the world of hunting. You know, I'm I'm a hunter that I was stupid lucky with situations that I was born

1:05:26into. I was born into situations where I had family that hunted on both sides in a in a various amount of success rates and settings too. And was able to cut my teeth and learn from people and kind of formulate stuff. And I've been a fairly successful hunter out east. But I think about the people that I've communicate with since doing the show that have not had that same experience. Late onset hunters or kids, you know, teens, guys in college that are starting to go out on their own and try to figure stuff out. If they don't reach out to me or reach out to whomever they dub the need to gain information from and ask questions that are a little bit silly or maybe seem silly, but they're really not. They're just questions that you need to know because you don't know what you don't know, right? You're never going to be able to overcome that. There's there's that

1:06:29can go in so many ranges of life. Hunting is such an ego thing. So much of what we do in hunting because it's a very masculine thing. I mean, there are a lot of ladies and hats off to those ladies who are active hunter hunters. But because of that masculine, anything, we get ego trips and we the ego in it, I think makes it very, very tough to show your weakness. One example is it got from my point of view, it's Eastern Hunters who are very successful saying I don't know how to go out hunting, but I'm not willing to spend money or I'm not willing to ask the right questions for people who know more than me or experience more than me so it can trade off into success for me. I think that's a failure in my opinion. Absolutely. Yeah, no, I said it earlier.

1:07:33I literally wasted a good 10 or 12 years that I could have been hunting on my own. I just, you don't know what you don't know. Sometimes you don't even know what questions you should be asking. And I'm like, you know, I grew up on a farm. I took a lot for granted and I've realized since venturing out into this, how blessed I truly was. I took a lot for granted. I talked a lot of adult on set hunters. Even guys that have hunted their whole life, but maybe they hunted public land or had just a small piece that they had permission on or whatever the case may be. I mean, when I was a kid, I had a couple of hows and acres that I could light-tail hunt on. We were super successful. And then too, a lot of times the bar gets set pretty high.

1:08:37You've got a lot of these content creators that are, they've got these farms in Iowa or Ohio or you know, and they're killing booners every year, you know, 180, 200-inch box, you know, looking for their next 200. That can really mess with the guy's mind when maybe that potentially isn't even on the property that he's on. And I got into, when I was younger, we would, we run a lot of trail cameras and we had a hit list and we were passing bucks and trying to get the age structure up. And if it wasn't a four and a half year old deer, we weren't shooting it. I've let a lot of good deer walk by me that I should have shot. And when I started hunting out west, that kind of changed for me. Number one, I realized how spoiled I was because it's a whole lot harder than what I was used to. But too, you know, like you're not, you're not hunting that

1:09:43trophy animal per se, you know, you're wanting to fill a tag. And then I became a dad and my daughter's got a little bit older and they were involved with running trail cameras. And I remember that I think my oldest was probably four at the time, four or five. And she was really kind of getting into the trail camera thing that year. And I had this about 125 inch eight pointer come by. We had him so many times on camera. She had him named and she was so excited I was going to shoot that deer. And I'm like, I don't want to shoot that deer. But he come by me that morning and I shot that deer. And I took her with me to go retrieve that deer. And I'm going to tell you right now, there isn't, I mean, I could take it in my living room right now and show you several deer on the wall that mean nothing to me compared to what that little 125 inch eight pointer meant. And that really changed changed my perspective quite a bit. So you you kind of when you were talking about, you know, being blessed, that kind of popped into my head. Oh, absolutely. I think we need

1:10:49to be reminded because I think we live in a society where it's so easy to take it for granted, where we always want the next best thing. And don't get me wrong. I'm not saying to be complacent. I think striving to be the best you can be in many aspects of life, including your hunting life. There is absolutely nothing wrong with improving yourself and being better. But there is something to be said about being able to step back and have a little level of satisfaction with what you have accomplished and where you are at and being thankful that you've been given what you've been given. And sure, we always want more. I mean, it goes back to the whole business thing we were talking about. A business that is complacent and idle is probably going backwards at that point. You've got to be moving forwards and pushing the needle. But thankfully with hunting, we're not out to fill our pockets with that. It's a fulfillment that is not monetary or materialistic. And if it is, it's going to lead

1:11:52to a point where it's not fulfilling. And that's one of the things I've noticed too. So all great points. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's the whole reason that I'm doing what I'm doing is I just, I think everybody that wants to get out west and go should be able to go and not start at the very bottom because you don't have to. It's not that there's there's so much to it that is kind of gate kept a little bit. I guess you could say, but there's a foundation a guy can start from and that doesn't have to be at the very bottom. That's going to really up a success. You know, you don't have to start at the top. But but if you start just a little higher up that learning curve, it's it shaves a lot of years off. And these hunts, they cost so much money, you know, and I've seen guys that, you know, might go once or twice and then get discouraged. And had they had they had

1:12:58just a little bit to go on, you know, they would have they would have had a lot more success getting started. And I don't necessarily mean just filling tags, but yeah. So so for me, you know, I've got that drive where it doesn't matter, you know, whether I kill something or not, I'm going next year, you know, I'm already planning three or four years out, you know, I mean, we're not going to quit. But, you know, there's there's some guys that, you know, maybe don't have that much a driver or maybe they're just smarter than me. But, um, yeah. So so that's that's you hit the nail in the head. It's it's not about monetary by any means. It's it's a fulfilling and being able to help help people be better. This has been a fun conversation, Josh, and I really appreciate your insight to this. And if somebody wants to learn more or reach out and learn more about Western 101, um, hey, where can people follow along and find out more about this and get in contact with you? Yeah. So we're on, you know, all the typical socials Facebook and Instagram,

1:14:02Western 101, um, we got Western 101, the website. Um, so I guess Western 101.com, um, we do have, we do have a YouTube channel. Uh, it's a little thin. I'm I'm not nearly as on top of that as I should be. But, you know, we've all got other things we have to do too. So they all take time as much as we want to do them. 100%. Josh, thank you so much for coming on the show. Yeah, thank you. I really enjoyed this. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Pennsylvania Woodsman. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Pennsylvania Woodsman podcast, or by email at PA Woodsman podcast at gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you. As you head into this week, stay grounded, stay grateful, and we'll meet you right back here next time.

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