On the Sheet: NHL Player Agent Ian Pulver

0:00Customers shouldn't have to start from scratch every time they meet help. That's why we built FEM. Fin answers questions, helps buyers find what they need, and remembers the context from one conversation to the next. Learn more at fin.ai Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like, and that's exactly what growth therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments, you just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the US, offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends.

1:03You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability, and you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as $0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com. In the meantime, it is a pleasure welcome to the program Ian Pulver, from the Will Sports Group to talk about, among other things, the latest Tristan Leno massive deal, six years 7.2 is the AAV on this one. I'd be smiling too, Agent Pulver, I would be smiling too. First of all, congratulations on the deal. I want to do the Coivan and deal as well. Like Will Sports Group was really hitting a stride here early in the season. How did this one come together with Leno?

2:04Because the first thing the people looked at and said, they said, 14 games. Look at this number. Well, first, hi, Jeffrey, thanks for coming on the sheet. My pleasure. We go, just for everybody, we go back to the old days of Bob Goodnow and Ian Pulver, setting up free agency in July, where this guy is going to sign, and that guy is going to sign, it was like a domino effect going through the NHL. That doesn't happen anymore, but it is feeling once again now, like this is the error of player empowerment, Ian. Yeah, it's really an odd time, I must say. It really has changed the landscapes, changing faster than anybody, I believe, anticipated or forecasted. I often wonder, where did all the money come from? You know, it's like all of a sudden it's here. You know, where was it?

3:06I got the players were paying back money from the COVID years, but it's exploded exponentially, and we'll continue to explode. And I think that teams are, certain teams are conducting businesses a certain way. And other teams kind of were out in front of it, and locked guys up. And now it's very odd. The locker rooms are going to be really, really odd if, you know, when guys get signed. Let me pause on that because listen, this is a conversation that you and I had back in 2005. And that is the idea that one of the byproducts of a salary cap is, it pits player versus player. Right? It's like what the old carny saying, but we gain on the roundabout. We lose on the swings. So for every Leo Carlson dollar, that's one less dollar that someone else on the Anaheim

4:09docs has the ability to get one of the things I think that we're all wondering about here is, what is or is there even going to be a middle class in the NHL anymore? Well, I mean, the middle class could very well get squeezed out as we forecasted back in 2005. And it completely hasn't been. You know, we were partially wrong. I mean, from time to time, you see, you know, players cast the Lamarello Island. As we saw it early, you know, in the salary cap era, where you see big contracts put in the miners. But going forward, it's going to be fascinating to watch. What happens with the middle class? And will the top eight, nine, eight guys on the team take all the money? And then you got to remember the NHL PAs done a good job banging up the NHL minimum,

5:12which will soon be a million dollars. And so, you know, that's good money. So it's going to be interesting to see how that comes about. What's going to be really fascinating is to watch when the Montreal Canadians may determine to jump into the pool of unrestricted free agency and bring in a player like Marchenko, okay? Yep. Who they may commit to pay higher than Hudson and higher than Suzuki. And the Leafs didn't have that problem with Neelander or Matthews. He kind of fit in. And what the locker room will be like when that happens. I would imagine the players being the players will accept it because they want to win and understand that that's how markets move. But that's where it's going to be important how the proper veterans in the room.

6:15And, you know, coaches and management dealing with it. Isn't it different though? Like aren't players wired differently? Like I can remember, geez, I remember, listen, I remember when Brett Lindross with the islanders made his money. And I think that was, I think it was five million dollars was the total. It was a different era obviously. It was five million dollars in the total contract. And there were a lot of veterans who were like, what is this? Like five million dollars. Like this is a joke for this player hasn't played in the NHL. But like it seems to me like players now are like they don't have that higher key. I know players always want to make you know one dollar more than the next guy. And I get all that. But I don't know what you're playing. It was the old Brett ski Lemieux. Well, there's that too. And honestly, like there's the, I still remember when in Toronto when Jason Allison signed for 1.5 million. And then like a couple of days later, Eric Lindross signed for a 1.5, 5 million just to get that like a little bit more than the player just to.

7:20But it seems to me now, Ian, and you represent a lot of these players. You're closer to it than I am. It seems now that players are of the mind that, hey, you got your bag? That's great. I'm going to try to get mine. Yeah, I think so. I mean, you know, it's so different now. I mean, back in the early 90s when a player went on the board, the other players were genuinely happy for that player because that meant they would get more. Okay. And so like that used to be the culture of the 94 Rangers as a 92 Hawks. I remember having player meetings with Steve Larimer and Chris Chelios and David's at Danny Savard and whatnot and all the teams. And everybody was rooting for each other because the salaries were exploding. The average league salary was 271, 271,000 back in 91. And so it was a different time, a different era now. Yeah, I think everybody just moves on, you know, like the power of this phone and real time

8:26information, connecting them to each other and in the industry and then the other sports. An entertainment world and the world in general has conditioned everybody one to get one to be looking after themselves a little bit more and two kind of water rolling off the dock's back until it impacts them. And then when it impacts them, they're not happy. Okay. Let me go back to the beginning then. How did we get to the Tristan Leno number? And did Zeve Boyam specifically, did that contract change everything for defenseman or was it, was it not necessarily the Zeve Boyam, but maybe the Pavl Minchikov number that changed things? Like how did we get to a place where your client is making a very healthy salary here?

9:30It is a just we have it is a six year contract 7.2 is the AAV. How did we get there? You know, before I get there, I will, it triggers memories of Eric Lindros coming into the league, never having played and signing that monster contract that paid him more, I believe, than I don't want to say it in the neighborhood of Gratz and Lemieux and he didn't ever play. How did we get there? First let me say Tristan Luno is a really really good hockey player. Who spent two years in San Diego and they had the Truba, they had the Goudus, they had the John Carlson on the right side last year. There was more or less a block. They wanted Tristan playing a lot of hockey. And then especially when Carlson came in and so the right side was locked. They had the Lekome Minchikov on the left side.

10:37They knew the player, they drafted the player, they had no one he's capable of. Management, I've talked to management now about Tristan Luno for three or four years, along with my associates. So he's a year away from a free being a restricted free agent who could hit the market and possibly be offered cheated, right shot defenseman and they kind of wanted to hedge their bet and saw the value of Tristan Luno and saw the value of a long-term deal. The Minchikov situation plus the Leo Carlson situation kind of maybe made them do their business a little bit differently.

11:37Yeah, the B.M. deal, you know, we play a full year and maybe we're offered cheated or maybe we're in the B.M. situation. And so we have been talking about Tristan Luno for quite some time and it made a whole lot of sense for both parties to strike a deal because I truly believe they know what he's all about and Tristan knows what he's all about too. Did was it you guys that wanted to initiate the conversation now or was it Anaheim? If we go into January and he's lining it up and first pair this and points that maybe the numbers higher, like how did the dynamic work? It's conversational like Tristan would have been fine playing through the year.

12:40Anaheim probably would have been okay with that but you know it's a series of conversations. Hey listen, I know Pop for B for 35 years, right? Like, and you know another management team, they got Scott Neeter Meyer there and they got Whitey Stapleton there and you know there's constant conversations about Luno, Seneca, different players that they made draft and things like that and just checking in on the players and their training is what I'm saying. And so it just kind of was conversational and it just got triggered that way. You know I think I'm going to change the name of this show from the sheet to the offer sheet considering how much I end up talking about it here on the program but why is it called the sheet by the way? I just wanted something sort of generic like game sheet like this is this sort of rapid the night. I used to do a blog called the sheet which sort of satisfied that condition and it kind of worked for

13:42this one that it was. She device. Just do something. How many times do you hear how many times you ever heard or said to your clients just get on the sheet? Just get on the sheet, right? Just get on the sheet. Do something. Jump over the board so I get a goal. Do something. Get on the sheet. You don't want to have like you don't want to have like Cheerio's beside your name every every game. You got to do something. Get on the sheet. Donuts, bagels, Cheerio's. All of it. You don't want to cheer you. You got to do something. You got to do something. You got to do something. So here then it becomes a question. I've always maintained that it isn't the fight in hockey that curbs behavior as much as it is the threat of the fight that curbs behavior. Is the threat of an offer sheet the new fighting major for agents and general managers? It's the threat of the offer sheet that gets things. Yeah, which is really incredible. I mean, you know, I one of the first things I ever did at the NHL Players Association was hand deliver an offer sheet to Brendan Shanahan who was living out on the Queen's way.

14:50Back in I want to say circa 1991 he was offered sheeted by the St. Louis Blues when he was a New Jersey devil. And there was that whole Stephen Shanahan history. And I mean, you know, lo and behold, the offer sheets were far and few between over the years. I believe the fact there was a federal offer sheet. Oh, that was an massive one. Yeah, that was that was Carmono's in Ilech. There was more than just what met the eye with that offer sheet. That was that was almost personal. I mean, we used to we used to negotiate 92 94 2004 the offer sheet chart what happened. Like everybody would be like, there's never going to be any opportunity like him. We're negotiating these numbers and the drop a conference compensation. And like everybody was like, they're never going to do that to each other. Maybe one, you know, and now it's very

15:53real because only one team can win. And it's very competitive. And I find the sense of urgency out there for teams to make the playoffs and win rounds. And you know, and that's why I think some of these owners don't want expansion because it's going to be even harder to make the playoffs. Yeah, I want to see I'm with there are and some significant ones who do not want to who do and that's why I think the NHL right now is as much as Bill daily did this sort of summer rounds and talked about expansion, not just in North America, but in Europe as well. All of a sudden now everyone's kind of pumping the pump and the breaks on it with our for sure. So yeah, there's there's there is a leverage play with the offer sheet from teams perspective agents perspective, but really, you know, we're hoping we're hoping and Tristan Luno would acknowledge it. Like we're hoping by the end of this contract or through this contract that Anaheim has a great deal.

17:00Like, yeah, it's okay, right? And it proves to be a good business decision for Anaheim and also Tristan and he's an unrestricted free agent at 29 and you revisit it again, but, you know, that's what we're all hoping. And it looks like Anaheim's going to be headed into another here and we'll see how the season goes, but last season was a banana, banana for Beckett, Sennaka. That's another one. Like this, this all seems to be sort of colliding here with with the Anaheim ducks, whether it's Carlson, whether it's Luno, whether it's Kutter Goche on the Pavel Minchikov on the horizon, Beckett, Sennaka here. How's Beckett feeling? Oh, Beckett, Beckett's a wonderful personality. I mean, Beckett's feeling like if you see his interviews, Beckett likes to have fun. He wants to be great. He's a very competitive individual,

18:04but what makes him special is his demeanor and character to want to have joy in the game and, you know, hopefully win. And he's put on weight. He looks great. Let me ask you about another one of your clients because the last two contracts by the Will Sports Groups Will Sports Group has really raised some eyebrows. Tristan Luno yesterday before that, Ville Coivinant, who I really do need to mention. That game against Philadelphia Flyers, that line with Hollander and Hendrix looked outstanding. Look at Philadelphia Flyers. It looked really good. How did that one come together? Because everyone looked at that one too and said, whoa, eight years, four million AAV for a player who hasn't been in the league here very long. How is, I mean, is this similar to the Leno conversations with Kyle Dubas?

19:05A little bit. I mean, that was more of this conversation with Dubas. And these are long conversations, talking about players, evolution. Coivinant was a little bit different. You know, I will say this in Ville Coivinant's defense. It's really hard to get on the power play in Pittsburgh. Okay. When you have Latang, you have Carlson, you have a guy named Crosby and Jenny Malkin. Yeah. You know, Kyle's planning for the future because they cannot play forever. So Kyle's always been a creative mind. And those conversations hatched with Vookie and Kyle a while ago. And it made a whole lot of sense. And Kyle came out and said, he's betting it. And Kyle, both contracts have the

20:06one third buyout to protect the team if this doesn't work. Having said that, we're all hoping you know, it works. And over time, you may not see the real Ville Coivinant's skilled individual who you know, is very competitive. One day will be a great power play guy in the national league. But like I said, it's hard to get power play time in Pittsburgh. But yeah, conversations again, Kyle sees where the markets are going. Kyle has other players, younger players on that team that will either go similar to Kyle Ville, more than Ville, or less than Ville. So he stuck a peg in the ground and we'll see where it plays out.

21:11Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what growth therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works covered by insurance. Sessions average $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the US, offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as $0 for therapy in

22:14seconds at growtherapy.com slash start now. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. Growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. This is the story of the one. As a shipping manager, he's running the dock, stocking supplies, and making sure every order goes out on time. And Granger helps him stay prepared. From shipping supplies to PPE to hand tools, he counts on Granger to keep products moving and trucks rolling. So his operation runs smoothly, no matter the shift. Call 1-800-GRAGER. Click ranger.com or just out by Granger for the ones who get it done. I want to wrap on this one here really quickly and I know you're busy. So I want to get you one thought on someone who reminded me today that you were a student of his at UBC law and that's Brian Burke, who goes into the hockey hall of fame this year. Do you ever

23:19thought I'm Birke? You're old teacher? Oh yeah, I mean, you know, Birke is, I'm indebted to Brian Burke. I mean, I scratched and clawed and grinded my way into his class at UBC. Brian was around circa 88. I was in second year. They started a sports law class and for 30 years, I could talk for hours on Birke, but I'm indebted to Brian Burke. I found someone that inspired me back in my law school days and you know, I'll never forget he gave an opening lecture to the law 200 people in the auditorium he was in the front. It was before we went into the class and people came in and listened and he talked about knowing or whether you knew or you thought you knew and

24:23you know, he had this big speech and he goes, you know, everybody here wants to think that they know about sports and the business and how many of you in this auditorium have read the USA Today Sports section today and every day and lo and behold, I was sitting there and I had a routine in Vancouver every morning to go and buy the USA today and had the sports section sitting in front of in the auditorium and no one else did and at that moment I knew that I was onto something and over the years, Birke, he's a legend. Birke, we faced off against each other at the end. Oh yes, he did. Yes, he did. Yep. And God bless Birke. I mean like he, I'm indebted to him and we'll never forget. Here's what what people tend to forget about Brian because we focused so much

25:25on Brian whether it's his work with the league or whether it's his work as a as a general manager in the NHL people tend to forget he was an agent, right? When Brian started he was an agent, right? And I think she's Joel Otto, I think was one of him the big story. Yeah, I was in the Calgary Plains. Yeah, and then I know it was Joel Otto and then Bob Goodnow took over his practice and through Birke, Bob got connected to Brett Hall and one thing led to another for Bob who then eventually gave up his practice and went and ran the NHLP at. Wow. But Jeff, Jeff the boss is right here. It's funny too. Okay, you know what I'll tell you what and this is a pet grape of mine. So if you look at because a lot of us are doing all these hits and shows from home, this is like this was the lesson of COVID that taught us that we don't have to be in studios to do these things. We have the technology all to be at home like you are right now. And it's funny. If you look at

26:30all the bookshelves that people have themselves in front of on all of these hits, Birke's law is on all of them. And what it does, he and it underscores something that I've been moaned for a long time. And that is we get books from players all the time. We get books from coaches. We get books from referees. Well, we don't get books from our general managers. The people that make the decisions that actually change the game. The people that know all the secrets, know all the moves and the moves that didn't happen and all those things that charted the course of history, the cascade behind them as they leave. They don't write books about it or they don't talk about it, right? It goes to the crematorium. And we talked about doing the right thing for hockey. I don't know what, I don't know what tell people what to do. But I think there should be a sort of, you should carry yourself with an obligation of when I'm done and all the people that influence are out of the game, I can write about it or tell those stories. So history has more links to it. Yeah, we can

27:36understand. Does that resonate with you, Ian? Does that make sense to you? Yeah, I mean, yeah, of course. You know, Bob Goodnell passed away and yes, you never got to write his book. It would have been a hell of a book. That's for sure. But some people, you know, feel when they're really close involved in everything, they don't want to tell the real story. Well, one day, even though, and I really enjoyed when Bob led the players association, even, you know, maybe one day there's an Ian Pulver that wants to write about the big one in 0405 and tell all of those stories. You never know. Maybe Ian. Maybe we'll collaborate on something to offer you. Looking for a ghost writer. All right, thanks. Congratulations on the Leno Deal. Thanks. Thanks for having me on. Have a good day.

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