On the Sheet: Adam Copeland

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1:00See if you could pay as little as $0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash start now. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. Growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Guessing is for game shows, not your business. Workday is the Enterprise AI platform for HR, Finance, and IT. With AI grounded in your context to get work done and done right, it's a new workday. Okay, so Adam, first of all, thanks so much for stopping by here today. Really appreciate it. I know it's a busy time. Tomorrow's going to be a wonderful day. But before we get to our conversation, spot quiz, I'm going to show you two pictures. Okay. And I'm going to ask you, what do they both have in common here? Okay. Now, on the left, that is Carlos Roca.

2:00This would have been an match, probably with the chic because they wrestled three or four times and sold out the place. And then there's the Burrill Burrill Co. picture from 1951. What do these two pictures have in common? I mean, if you don't see that ramp and understand that that's Maple Leaf Gardens, and if you don't know the story of Bill Burrill Co. And from to be a lease fan, then I mean... See, I think that that Bill Burrill Co. picture is the greatest sports picture ever taken. And here's why. If you look at the fan, like the puck is about to go in. You can see it over Jerry McNeil's right on. But it's the moment before the moment. All the fans are sitting. It hasn't happened yet. Pre-explosion. It's right there. It's at that set. Right before the place explodes and the Maple Leafs win this Dan Leica, that to me, like, you know that moment right before like the first lock up where all the fans go. It's that breath in. Yeah. And the Bobby Or is just after. Yes. Because he's celebrating. Yes. And the Olympic Card with the trip. But I love the moment right before the moment is also the reason we bring up Maple Leaf

3:04Gardens is, Matamea Athletics Center formerly Maple Leaf Gardens. This is a big box for you to check. And you've checked some big ones recently. By the way, I was so happy for you at Wembley and the Singalong and the Mattik. All of it was so great. But you've had a big box checking time recently. Yeah. Yeah. It really, you know, at this stage of my career, this deep into it to still have things to go after, I think, is kind of what keeps you young and keeps you invigorated and keeps you lit up. Because that's one thing I'll get off. And it's like, how are you still so lit up about this? And I'm like, well, if I wasn't lit up about it, I wouldn't be doing it. This is supposed to be fun. And getting to perform in these venues that I never thought could happen, especially when I was retired. Let alone coming back, I come back with WWE, well, it's not going to, I'm not going to get a Rena Mexico. I'm not going to get Wendy. Yeah. I'm not going to get Maple Leaf Gardens. I'm not going to get those. Okay. Well, in moving to AEW, then suddenly that became a possibility.

4:07And now within one calendar month to be able to check off Rena Mexico, to be able to check off Wembley Stadium and now to be able to do Maple Leaf Gardens. That for me is just, it's amazing. And it is what keeps me lit up as these experiences and to be able to get them this deep in is just, it still kind of blows my mind. You know, I learned something about broadcasting that has always stuck with me. It's from an interview with Paul Heyman about a million years ago where he talked about, whenever he mentions a venue, he pauses and says it slowly. Tonight at Maple Leaf Gardens or Madison Square, you draw it out and you make it big as a boy just, oh yeah, tonight it mad at me, I thought it was an exciting moment. You make the venue seem big. It matters a lot for athletes. Why does it matter so much? Have you thought about why venues matter so much? I really need to work here. I need to be, I need to have, you know, check the box, you mentioned a Rena Mexico.

5:09Like, why do venues matter so much? I think because if you find yourself in a position or if you've chosen this career, whatever that career is and if it's in sporting or entertainment, chances are part of the reason you fell in love with it is where it happened. Bingo. And for me, the first wrestling show I saw live was at Maple Leaf Gardens. And when I would try and go as many times as I could, it was Maple Leaf Gardens. And then I was also watching the Leafs and Maple Leaf Gardens. So Maple Leaf Gardens became the thread that stitched the quilt of what my childhood was together. Okay. This is this sweet spot of the bat. Okay, so here's, because I like you, like you and I have a lot in common. We both have like beautiful long blonde hair, rugged, good look, torn out like a bad pork. Gotta go with rugged now for sure. You know, we're torn out like a bad report card, about 235 pounds each. No, but we both grew up going to Maple Leaf Gardens for hockey and for wrestling.

6:13And my family would go, my dad would always take us to the Globe Trotters when they would come through and ice cupades and circuit. But like, we went there a lot. And it took me until I was in my adult years to figure out why I loved Maple Leaf Gardens so much. And it's because like venues make your fan base. Venues can transform a fan base. And I've always maintained, like you look in Buffalo, a key bank, they have an atrium. Okay, I love, if I was making our own arena, it would have to have an atrium. And you look at Maple Leaf Gardens, everybody came in in the same place. Everybody came in those three or four doors at the front of Maple Leaf Gardens. Everybody came in, it didn't matter like your socio-economic class, you rich, you're poor, it doesn't matter where you're from. Everybody comes in together and everybody leaves together. Like that makes a sense of community. And that's why those becomes more communal.

7:13100%. And that's why atrium do that. That's why Buffalo Sabers fans are like so together. Right? And I think like the venue makes that and Maple Leaf Gardens made that. Everybody went in the same way. There was like that one door on Wood Street at the back of it. So like there wasn't anywhere to go. That's where the wrestlers and the athletes left. That's where we would go after the show. For a lot of shows to try and catch the guys. I remember going to me, I remember, I was hilarious because the Westbury Hotel was right behind it. And the heels would all check in at the same time. And then the baby faces would all check in. And then it was self-hosted. Never mix. Never mix. But like does that resonate with you? Like the building makes the, like that was what I looked back on now, and see that's why it was so special because everybody was there together. Absolutely. And I also think the buildings start to collect the memories. Oh for sure. You know, the Beatles have played there. Yep. Elvis has played there. No matter what changes or renovations are this, that and the other, the bones of it.

8:16At the very base of this thing is all of those experiences and all of those, those highs have happened there. You can't tell me that something doesn't rub off. Oh yeah. You can just feel it when you walk in certain rooms, when you can walk in certain places. It can be a concert venue. It could be the El Macombo. You know, take your great record. Oh, street creds with a roof now for Copeland. But you know what I mean? I feel like they start to take on a life of their own. And for me, I'm a bit of a romanticist, you know. Yeah. I still enjoy those aspects. I still enjoy history. You know, to me, George Armstrong is still Mr. Maple Leaf. You know, it's, it's, I wasn't alive during that time frame. I've just seen the tapes, but to hear the stories, read the stories of what he brought. Yeah. So, so I'm that guy. And I think because of that, it takes on extra meaning for someone like me. Okay.

9:16I, I've spent my life in hockey trying to find professional wrestling moments. Okay. I'm just going to sound kind of weird, but I'm always looking for moments where it's like, and I, I think I know where you're going. I've always, I've always wondered like I've always tried to encourage sports to like, at least my marketing point of view, like at least have a look at what wrestling does. Yeah. Because this translates. Sure. You know, what can wrestling teach you? So I want to show you something here. So this is from 2008. Let me frame it this way. This is a fight between Brad May and Chris Barch. Now these two were like Flare Steamboat. They had a number of Matt fights. And they were all great. Now the setup to this one was these two always had the number one fight on hockeyfights.com. And there was another fight. I think it was Sean Thornton and Riley Coate had a beauty and it took over the number one spot. So before the game, these two at center ice agreed they were going to throw and they were going to get that number one spot back right there. That's Chris Barch. By the way, telling me they don't quit. Keep hitting me. Keep hitting me. We got to get to number one on hockey. And so it was an agreement that they were going to throw.

10:20And it was again, here comes the word. It was a cooperative fight. So here. And remember, Mady told me the story. It's like, yeah, Barchee's yelling at me. No, Mady, don't stop. Don't tie it up. Keep going. Keep hitting me. Because a couple times you can see 24 sort of slowing down a little bit and Barchee's cheering them on. And then they get to the penalty box and apparently Barch is like banging on the glass. Like, Mady, we did it. We're going to be number one at hockey fights. So here's my question to you. That was a cooperative moment in hockey. Okay. Was that professional wrestling, that fight? Oh, wow. Was that pro wrestling? Two guys agreeing to do this. It was cooperative and it had a goal of getting to number one on hockeyfights.com. I mean, was that pro wrestling? Not far removed from some Mojo and Necro butchered. Right? And there's a wonderful dark side of the ring about that. You know, or two guys that have the idea, okay, we're going to go in and we're going to go.

11:21Yep. And that happens. And it's not even go from a, I don't like you. It's just like, no, let's feel this tonight. I mean, you can say it because I've said it. That's a member of Mady. It's always like, Mady, that's pro wrestling. I mean, they're drilling each other in the face. But again, you will get some guys and girls that want to get in there. And just, all right, let's get physical tonight. Yeah. And it's already physical as it is. But I mean, just really, really dial in. You know, so you're on my side of this one that that was pro wrestling. That fight was pretty pro wrestling. They were, they were hitting each other with like sandwich grabbers, like right in the face. And to get a reaction from the audience. To get a reaction from the crowd and get number one on hockeyfights.com. I mean, that was pro wrestling. I'm going to, yeah, I think it's okay with me. That's pro wrestling. Um, what I'm always curious to hear. By the way, those laughs by May, I was to sit there and do an interview with them the other night.

12:21That's what your, the funnilators game, yeah. But you can still see that, that, that sparkle in the eye. Yeah. It's there. And it'll always be there. The thing about Brad too is, and this is why I always love Brad. There are some guys that are like this Brad, he didn't win, you know, you don't run the table like nobody wins all the fights. But the thing about when you fought Brad May, he always got a little piece of you. Yeah. You're trying to fly. Always knew that you were in a fight. And he would take on all the commerce. But there was like some fights, okay, like easy, you know, two punch and the guys like out of the fights we do the slip on the banana and go down like, okay, like this thing's over. I don't want to take a beating. But May would stay in there. Yeah. I always, I always do. I swear to him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

14:41Com slash audio. And use code audio for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash audio. One purchase equals one donated. Always. How do you, I once heard a quote about acting. And it's my friends. It's always stuck with me. And I remember I think it was, I think it was an interview with you a million years ago where you talked about you make your money with your face and professional wrestling like your facial expressions. And there's an old quote about acting. And it's like goes this, acting is like carrying a 500 pound feather. It's so heavy and so light all at the same time. And there's so many different cues and reads that you have to be processing at every single moment that it's both delicate and overwhelming at the same time. A, does that resonate with you? And B, how do you describe?

15:42I mean, it does resonate. I think with acting, unless it's theater, you still have a little bit of a net because it's not live. And you can yell cut. And you can, you know, any live element. The difference in terms of all the different plates that you have to keep spinning in the air becomes more because it's live. So if those plates start to drop, everything's falling apart. If everything falls apart on set, well, you can just put it back together and go for another kick of the can. There isn't that with wrestling or maybe stand up or a concert. And I think that's why those are things that I really gravitate to because of that instant feedback, that kind of instant gratification of what is working and isn't working. I love that tap dance. I love acting too. And it is, it can be a delicate balance. And but it was truly acting that taught me what exactly actually sells in professional

16:48wrestling. And that is this. And it's these two things right here. And if you can let people in, chances are they're along for the ride for your career. It really is fascinating too. And I'm sure that that takes a long time to figure out and master. And you're probably, since audiences change and people you work with change too, you talk to really about how do you still stay fresh and stay curious and involved. Like with everything constantly changing, the one sport that constantly changes and insists on change is professional wrestling. As a lot of other sports will chase heritage and tradition. I always make the joke that tradition is just peer pressure from dead people. That wrestling is always just change, change of all, of all, of all that. I've always wondered when you understand that because the one thing that I've gleaned from my career is the idea of being ready. I'll talk to young students about broadcasting and when do I think I'm ready? When do you think you're ready? Here's the deal.

17:49Being ready is a myth. Being ready is always a myth. You start, you suck, you get better, you figure it out. I think that's too of a quit. Or you quit. But if you do it, that's the way it works. You start, you suck, you get better, you figure it out. And when do you realize that I can work out in the gym and I can look great and I can do all these things, but my face is making me money? I think honestly it was probably the program with Matt Hardy is when I started to put together what exactly was going to move me beyond where I was at. And that was taking my time and making sure that that camera can get that truck and giving the camera that extra time and giving the producer and the truck that extra time to be able to cut to it. And I know, okay, we're live, okay. Now I can hit them with the look. They saw where I'm at. They changed the camera angle. Here we go. Let's get the shot. That to me is super fun.

18:50Now I start thinking more like a director as opposed to a wrestler. And now I'm thinking of shots because shots become moments. And moments are what actually stay and resonate with an audience. They don't remember, oh, there was that poison rana. No. They may remember a spear off of a ladder because of the spectacle of it and the flash bulbs in the background when there's still cameras and disposable cameras. But to me, it's, movies are great, but it's all about making a connection. I would rather that people be chanting, you know, Copeland than ECW or whatever company you're into me. That means you've made the connection now. Or this is awesome. Those are all great and everything. But I want to make that connection. Now it's like Pavlov's dog. Everybody's just trained to do the, oh, this is awesome. You know, that kind of thing, right? But when you truly start to make strides and when you truly start to get over,

19:52yeah, is when they connect to you. There were beautiful moments in this funny talk about connections. There was a beautiful moments in the tragically hip final tour at the end of every show where Gord Downey would stand on stage and just find people in the audience and look at them and make eye to eye and then move and go eye to eye. And we just stand there making that connection. When you're working, are you conscious of that and trying to make, whether you're not, you're not going maybe going eye to eye with someone, but you're like, I need to, because it's got to be difficult too, because you have to play like to the front row in the back row at the same time. Yeah. Like that's what makes it like really, really difficult here. There's like a lot of different ways you can connect with people and you can't just stand there and do what Gord Downey did and go eye to eye with everybody. Not with everybody, no. But what I've tried to do, especially in this second act, is find the kid. When I see that kid and I see those saucers and this weird moment like the puck about

20:59to go in where he, I turn, we connect here, she is like, and there's that breath. Is he mad at me? Is he angry or is he, oh, he's smiling. And then to see you come onto their face, I'm like, that's what it's about. It's not about moves, it's not about championships or props and the props. It's just bunched in. What's real and what I've realized in the second act and taking wrestling less self-deprecatingly now too is somewhere along the way, I guess I forgot what it can mean to that kid because hey, we're jumping around in spandex. But I still remember how Brad Hart affected me. I still remember how Hulk Hogan affected me. I wouldn't be sitting here having this interview if they didn't affect me in that way. So for me to be able to have those connections with people now and more than anything man, it's the greatest compliment I can get. I can't tell you if I'm out in public how many times during the day I have grown men come

21:59up to me and go, thank you for the childhood memories. I mean, come on. If you're a part of that and it happens so much and it's never lost on me, it's always so cool to hear that. Or to then have that guy with his son or daughter come up and go, hey, so we got them in and they love you and they're catching up on all your stuff. Yeah. Three generations in a front row. You know, and to see grandpa, son and grandson. Yeah. Come on. Or granddaughter or and I hate that I always say grandson. Like it's so much, I guess it's rewarding, you know, and just to know that you can be a part of some of the same kind of memories that lit you up as a kid. I think that there are a lot of, like I've always felt this way. I read a quote years and years ago about boxing, about the spiritual lessons about boxing. And there's one thing that always stuck with me, which is when you take a punch, the first

23:02thing that gets hit is your ego. And it's a great spiritual lesson to try to ignore your ego. Because if you follow your ego, you're dead. You're dead. Your ego will control you and the fights over. You're going to make mistakes. There's a spiritual lesson there about ignoring your ego. I know the sport is cooperative, but is there an element of ego and trying to ignore your ego as you work? I think so. I think there has to be. I think you can't take certain things personally. It's the code of the babyface. He'll see the one person who isn't cheering for him instead of the 52,000 that are. It's the musician who sees the one person yawning. Early exit. It's that. So I do think you have to get ego out of it. But then there has to be ego in it too, because you're half naked.

24:06You're standing there exposed. Finally something else that exposes you quite like standing in the middle of a pro wrestling ring and spandex. Yeah. Well, it's funny too. I remember having a dinner with Lance Storm when he was working at WCW and we're at a restaurant and I was having a steak and a beer and he was having chicken, plain, broccoli and the DLUC. You've seen it. I've been there for a lot of those meals. I'm like, don't you ever want to have a steak? Let me ask you a question. Do you go to work and you're underwear? I'm like, no, he goes, I do. Great answer. It's so true. It's so true. I'll always get that, especially for my mother-in-law. She's like, come on, come on. I'm like, Grace, I got to go wear spandex in front of 50,000 people next week. That's 20 extra minutes on the treadmill right there. Tell me about Steve McClendon. I like him a lot. You two have never worked together before. What goes into it? I know he's really excited about it and really thrilled to be working with you two.

25:09How do you go about putting something like that together? I'm thinking about tomorrow a lot, Adam, and I'm thinking it's going to be emotional. It's going to be dramatic and there's probably also going to be times where you want to fight the third monkey on the york when it starts raining. Right? It's going to happen. Didn't see that word covered. That was good. Yeah. Here's another thing I've learned in coming back this time is to not fight emotions. Just let them happen. Yeah. Let them happen. They're there. They're real. So use them. And by doing that, I feel like I let the audience in that much more because they're truly seeing as much of Adam Copeland as you're going to get in terms of performance within a wrestling ring. Not that far removed now. Obviously, I don't body slam people on the street, but in terms of like experiencing things and taking it in, I'm still going to be a little kid out there.

26:11I'm not going to lose that. I don't want to lose that ever. I still want to be that wide-eyed kid that walks into me, belief gardens tomorrow night and is blown away by it. And thinks about all of the things that have happened there and then adding my little piece of that into that, the fabric of that man. How aware are you or how aware will you be that that audience cheering for you at Maple Leaf Gardens, no matter my Athletic Center, Maple Leaf Gardens on Pay Per View, how aware will you be that that audience wants to be part of that moment for you? It sounds so cliche, but it's humbling. You know, for something to feel important to me and then for people to feel like I've got to get there to be there for them. Yeah. I don't get why necessarily, except other than a little bit.

27:12And they're going on the ride with me. You know, I think any long standing band, any long standing actor, any form of entertainment or how it can be a picture. I think you start to gain, it becomes a team thing. I don't know how else to put it, except that you don't feel like you're going out there by yourself. That's a really cool place to navigate from. For sure, when you're out there. And then in terms of Maclin, man, I've always appreciated what he brings to the table and his story too. And at this stage of my career, I look to who I'm going to wrestle. And when the role call of opponents, I was like, Maclin. He's talked about how appreciative he is. And I didn't know any of the other things. I didn't know that when he played wrestling as he was growing up, when he played as himself,

28:16it was my action figure. Yeah, I didn't know any of that stuff. Before I kind of said, okay, that's my guy there. Because I really, I love the idea of having that NWA title match, that sweaty grinding, that kind of style, that funk brisco kind of thing. And I see here and I go, I can do that with that guy. Yeah, that's hitting me where I live. Before I let you go, I was busy media day, I've always felt that. Like Hall of Fame's always put people in. And it's wonderful. And we saw it, whether it's hockey or pro wrestling. I've always felt that games should be in the Hall of Fame as well. Certain pivotal moments and matches as well. If you were like sitting down and thinking like, okay, what are Adam Copeland's Hall of Fame matches? Either yourself or matches that you've seen.

29:18Is there like a couple that come to mind and feel, and again, it doesn't have, when you think Hall of Fame, it's like moments that change the sport. Like I look at hockey, for example, in 1972, Canadians want to focus on game eight, Canada and Henderson scores. Game one was more important because that was, that was the Soviet Union saying, we just beat Canada. We're here. That's the beginning of international, the beginning of international hockey was game one in Montreal. That game, for me, belongs in the Hall of Fame. Everyone assumed NHL is going to clear the deck, right? Not even a brick of sweat. Oh, wait, that's not the case. They won't even need the warm towels at none. And you're right, that changed the landscape. It changed the hockey going forward. Yes. Yeah. Oh gosh. Oh, man. So I'm going to name three that just came off the top of my perfect. They all involve Hulk Hogan. Hogan Andre. Yep. Which one? Mania three. I had an idea. D-1, you know. Yeah. Hogan Warrior.

30:18That was your first, wasn't it? That was WrestleMania six. I'd been to wrestling a bunch at that point, but that was my first WrestleMania that night at the dome man. There was just something in the air. Like I've said it before, like you can almost see it crackling. It was just, it's just there, man. And then Hogan Rock. Also in the dome. That was such a weird one. Weird, but that was such a weird match. But, but to me, it was, it crystallizes what pro wrestling can be because none of that was supposed to go the way it went. And I'm sure that Rock wasn't too thrilled that it went the way that it did. But still. But being an absolute pro and understanding. That's it. And throwing ego back to that. That's a spiritual ego out the door. That is the spiritual lesson of that moment. Okay, I'm reading this crowd and this is what they want. And if you don't give them what they want because of your ego. Yes. That's an issue. For that reason, I will agree with you a million, a million percent.

31:19And to be honest with you, I'm embarrassed that I never thought about it like that. That's from here for you. I just looked at that and we're like, it's not the way it was. I'm just supposed to go. Have a lot of fun. I know it's going to be a big night for you. I'll be there. I'll be cheering you on. It's going to be a lot of fun. I can't wait to get there tomorrow. I'm glad we got to do this. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks so much, Adam. Thank you.

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