October 24, 1993: UFO Investigations - George Knapp

0:00This program introduces our listeners to the scientific approach to discussion of two particular subjects, UFOs and near-death and after-death experiences. To contact the Bigelow Foundation during the work week, call Angela Thompson between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. at Area Code 702-456-1606. That's Angela Thompson at Area Code 702-456-1606. And now, Area 2000. Good evening everybody. Welcome to Area 2000. Good evening, I'm Mark Bell. We're going to have a fun night tonight. We're going to have our usual report from Angela Thompson and we're going to reverse order this evening. Because our guest for the entire evening is going to be George Napp. And I've very much been looking forward to this. He of course provides us with a regular report at the beginning of most of the area. 2000 shows he's been investigating the UFO phenomenon now for years.

1:09And actually is considered to be one of the, in fact, I guess he is considered to be the leading journalist who's been looking into the UFO phenomenon. So, I wish you I bid you all a good evening, the half of the Bigelow Foundation. And let's go all the way to Philadelphia for a glimpse at yet another reality. Here from Philadelphia is Linda Howell. Good evening, Linda. Hi. Hi. Well, tonight I thought what I do. I would be to give you an update on animal mutilation before you go into the whole interview with George, the Pacific Run. I have a very interesting mutilation update from a place called Vendor Arkham style, which is about 50 miles southeast of Newarkis Springs. On Wednesday, September 1, about a month and a half ago, cattle farmer Mark Ewing checked all his cows and they were well, including one of his two-year-old pregnant cows.

2:12The next day on September 2, Ewing, an individual to feed the herd and the cows ran away from him as it flew by something that he could not see. That night there was a huge thunderstorm and Mr. Ewing's daughter, Kathy Royce, who lived about 400 yards from her father's farmhouse, so that she heard a very strange sound like the roar of an ocean in that storm. Then on Saturday morning September 4, Mr. Ewing found 20 feet of his electrical wire missing from the fence that he kept around his cattle in the cattle pasture. While trying to find the missing wire, he could see that his pregnant-trior old cow was lying in an odd manner with her right leg folded under her and her left leg sticking straight out, he said, as if something dropped her straight down in her tract. Mr. Ewing has six dogs with him that ran a head to the cow before he got there and they began sniffing her body.

3:16Suddenly, all six dogs began barking and yelping as if frightened by something Mr. Ewing could not see. All six dogs ran from the cow back to the house 200 yards away and remained agitated for the next three days. I saw him in the chair at the southern England when I was there in August that I reported earlier in the area 2000 where he had two fear medallations and a couple of days in and around those medallations his cows went into a panic and stampeted against him and scared the English climber. Mr. Ewing said that before he could get to the cow with the dogs running past him that he felt suddenly like he should not go to where the animal was and he turned around and he went back home without investigating the cow and said he didn't really understand his own actions. He took him about three and a half hours to decide that he had to go and look at the cow.

4:16So about 6.30 or 7 o'clock in the evening on Saturday, September 4, he did go and he was shocked at what he found. The first thing that he noticed was that the unborn calf, a portion of his face, was protruding and interciled from out of the vagina but he could see that the cow and the calf were both dead. There was a very similar case in Alabama earlier this year in January where the vice police department and others investigated a cow that was dead and mutilated the other was removed and the calf was also partially out of the vaginal opening and also getting mutilated. Mr. Ewing, when he further checked to see the critical, the jaw had been stripped on the left side and the horizontal hole of strange knuckles underneath the vaginal opening.

5:18And in spite of the shell surface, when the breath is removed now, they have been stripped and in the depth of that there is an unborn calf. The breath was re-sourced and he was looking at past with dark instruments on an animal in which they fell underneath the vaginal opening. Mr. Ewing was surprised that it had changed shape from the 94 because it had been round and flour and when the deputy came it was square and larger and they discovered that the calf was now completely removed and yet they could find no evidence of the embryo staff, the umbilical cord, the calf. There was no fluid, there was nothing and the pregnant cow was now systemic with flat abnormally so. The deputy officially listed this as cut with a sharp instrument cut that were smooth and the deputy noted that there was an absence of blood in these exesions.

6:25Now they did check for boats or stab wounds, they did not find any and while they were looking they discovered that the tongue was removed in the throat but the eyes and ears were completely in place. There were no signs of struggle around the cow even though the ground was damp from the rain or it was as if the animal had simply dropped in her track. One interesting thing that happened after they had found this animal was that Mr. Ewing's son-in-law Mr. Roy to live nearby a few nights later had come home and saw a huge unidentified, he said, ball of light that was lighting up the entire side of a mountain near their home. From it he could see two beams of light coming from the huge ball of light as if they were search light searching the ground from a approximately tree top level.

7:25The son-in-law said that the light he saw it around 1 a.m. on September 19th and that he watched it for at least 10 to 15 minutes but no one else in his family was there to see this large light with these beams coming out of it. Investigators in that Arkansas area have now checked with other neighbors that if anyone had any other mutilation reports or heard or saw anything unusual that first week or two in September and so far no one has outside of the son-in-law and then Mr. Ewing's mutilation case. But that's the point to this. There has been now a report apparently of a dog mutilation in that area and investigators are trying to see if they can get some photographs and I bring this up for any of the listeners in your own local areas who may have heard about any unusual happenings with animals.

8:25I appreciate being notified either through our cell in area 2000 or directly to my address because this is the kind of phenomenon that you don't hear about in national news in this case is very unusual story that has so many factors to it would not have reached me or anyone if one reporter in a very small newspaper did a two or three lines about the fact that Mr. Ewing had lost his town. And then when the case was investigated it turns out that it has all of these highly strange facets to it. So this is the only way we can keep up with this strange phenomenon. Linda, you know, if you push aside the UFO connection for just a moment with all of these mutilations and you simply try to consider what to rest real phenomenon or motive or persons might be doing this. What are you able to produce in terms of ideas about what might be doing this if it's not UFO related?

9:30Well, this goes back to the documentary I did 14 years ago with Strange Harvest and which I talked with law enforcement about all sorts of things ranging from the satanic cult hypothesis to the possibility of the government carrying on some kind of an environmental contamination experiment. Exactly. Do any of those stand up? No, they have never stood up when you get down to the fact that in the pathology examinations of tissues on now over 30 animals that we've been able to look at under a microscope and you find that the hemoglobin has been cooked at the physician site. You know automatically you're separating out the cases from disease and from predator and when it comes to the issue of satanic cult why would a satanic cult and even how would they have the resources to carry on a global, this is a worldwide phenomenon for 30 years at least going back to the 60s being able to get in and out of sandy sand bars and snow and wet ground without leaving a track and leave these animals in the strange bizarre fashion that I just described that happened in Arkansas and September and do so with some kind of equipment that could exercise culture with high teeth.

10:52The smell of sport of a brother flying across the world. and those people the other way, but in what percentage of the animal medilation cases gives their connections to some unidentified object? The rise from the very beginning of that force in southern Colorado that made the newspapers globally as nippy's, the worse, and in fact it was a female horse named Lady. The reporter got the name wrong and the best one was not that. There have been so many sightings of strange light around this male, deafy wings, things that people said looked like little tiny airplanes zooming around in the standalone style of southern Colorado, but they didn't know what they were. That when this horse was found, it's the flesh from the neck out, and no claps around it.

11:56In the 70s, southern Colorado ground in September of 67, and that the clolestack to the horse's body were about 100 yards away, where the horse itself, if you could see that they cropped, had gone, cramping around in some kind of a frantic circle, and there was evidence of heat on one of the bushes near this horse's body. Everything was highly strange, never explained, and they had lines from south that quote unquote, did AUFOs zap this horse in Colorado? So right from the beginning, there was an association with odd things in the sky and these strange animal deaths, and throughout the decades, there has always been some kind of a connection to orange lights or bizarre lights, or what a lot of people have said look like, the search lights from helicopters coming down in pastures with a later found mutilated animal. All right, fascinating, fascinating, so there is a better connection to the UFO phenomenon

13:00than there is to the possibility of some terrestrial, something or another. So when I began as a TV reporter working on this story 14 years ago and doing a documentary about it, I first, I was not thinking in terms of the UFO phenomenon or anything that was non-terrestrial at the time. I began as the idea that I was getting into some kind of an environmental contamination story. So that, in other words, it is not something that you tried from the beginning to connect, but rather a connection that you found. No, I had no association with any of this high-strangeness material at all in my life. I was a focused entirely in science and medicine and environmental issues, which I thought this was one issue, but it was the interview with the sheriffs and the deputies and the fellow journalists and the few veterinarians who would talk with me off the record, who told me off the record, all of their encounters with these bizarre strange lights that... So then, Linda, this is actually how you came to this topic in the first place.

14:07Right, which is as an environmental story. I see. That lends a lot of credibility to it. Well, that's some story, Linda, and... And when we talk on, again, I think on November 7th, I can go into that in more depth for you, but I was a journalist working in science medicine the environment long before I did a strange harvest. And a strange harvest was a documentary that I did 14 years ago. In Since then, I have done many other documentaries and done many other investigations on issues that have related to all kinds of other subjects, but I think to feed the phenomenon of animal mutilations and human adoptions and the cross-circle phenomenon, all of this that I'm calling glimpses of other realities are something that we should be paying a great deal of more attention to because the implications for our planet could be something in the future that we have underestimated. Well, I'm sure glad we've got you out there looking into this. Well, I'm trying. All right, Linda. Thank you. Keep up the good work.

15:09Yep, and talk to you next Sunday. Take care. That's Linda Howe and her glimpses into another reality. And isn't that something I never realized that Linda came to her present field of interest and its relationship to UFOs through other scientific research. And as I said, that I think that lends more credibility to what she's doing. All right, onward George NAP is an award-winning investigative reporter whose previous documentaries on the UFO topic are considered to be among the best ever produced. His UFO investigations have been honored by UPI, that's United Press International, Associated Press, and the Fund for UFO Research. In 1989, NAP first broadcast allegations by controversial physicist Bob Lazar concerning secret programs in the Nevada Desert, those allegations attracted worldwide attention. NAP earned a master's degree in communications from the University of the Pacific,

16:12where he also taught public speaking and coached the debate team. He's taught communications and journalism at other colleges, including the University of California at Berkeley, Cal Poly, Loyola University, and UNLV. Currently, George is Senior Vice President at Althamira Communications in Las Vegas, Nevada, where he is producing a multi-part comprehensive UFO documentary series, including research obtained from his March 1993 back-finding trip to Russia. You all know him. He does a report here weekly, and it's high time that we had him as a guest. And yes, you will be able to ask George questions very shortly. So let us go. And strangely enough, I had to come from Perump Nevada to Las Vegas to do the program. George has gone from Las Vegas to where he's spending, I guess, the night in Perump, Nevada. So to Perump, Nevada, and George NAP. Hi, George. Hey, how you doing?

17:19It is kind of a cross we've made here. What kind of weird? Yeah, but it's a real life. Oh, it's beautiful and broad. And as a matter of fact, keep your eyes open out there. Well, I know. I've heard some very prominent broadcast personalities and things, and it just brings out here. It's so it has been reported. All right, where to start with you, George, I think, since we've got you for a greater period of time, let's find out a little bit about your history. I know that you were a very traditional and I guess still our journalist. You worked for Las Vegas television. Give us a little idea of where your career is then. Well, it's jumped all over the map before I got into journalism as you mentioned. I did some teaching and debate coaching and things of that nature ended up in Las Vegas almost in a whim. And we used my way into television and into news. Traditional, that would be a good way to describe my approach to news. I mean, I did all the stories that investigative reporters do, worked a lot on organized crime stuff, a lot of critical corruption and political coverage, the legislature, all of those sorts of things. So I was very much grounded in the basics of

18:23journalism and had never really given any thought to UFOs until 1977. George, I had always thought of you as the heir apparent here in Las Vegas to reporting on mob activities. Oh, sure. Because my mentor, in essence, was a guy named Ed Dach, who, you know, he taught me a lot of what I know and taught me the basics about the ethics of journalism. And I learned a lot from him. And then it was coincidental is that because Ned was not interested in UFOs is why I did get interested in 1987, a guy named John Lear came walking into the TV station. And John had been an important source of Ned on a story of up-stalk technology. Ned broke that story before any other reporter in the country had it. And I think John was partially responsible for the information that led to the story. Well, John came into the station with the NJ-12 documents and a pile of other UFO related material and was trying to sell Ned on getting interested in it. Ned was having no parts of it. I, of course, was even dropping as always. And John was heading out the door.

19:26Said just one moment. Yeah, I suppose that's how it happened. So you stopped him and said, wait a minute, I want to look at that stuff. Exactly. Sure, let me take a look at this stuff. And I think, you know, I have the same kind of attitude that most people have about UFOs in those days. I mean, it's interesting what to show me something. The NJ-12 documents were intriguing at that point. I didn't know if they were real or not. The other material that John opened up to me was even more interesting. I'll have to say this at this point that John and I park ways on a great number of issues and controversies in the UFO area. He believes a lot of stuff that I don't necessarily think is affordable, but he was definitely instrumental in getting me going into the field, opened up this file. And for that reason, I guess I'll own a debt of gratitude. Anyway, it didn't take very long. It didn't take long at all to realize after reviewing some of the material that was available, some of the books, some of the documents, some of the really credible people who were out there working on it, that there really is a body of information concerning

20:32UFOs in the alien presence, the alien for one lack of a better term, indicates that it's real. And I just couldn't believe after seeing some of the material that other mainstream journalists have not taken a fair and serious look at the topic. I have a very good copy at home of UFOs, the best evidence. And it certainly is without a doubt, I think, the best thing ever produced in the area. And so I guess your interest then while you were still there in television, local television, culminated in that, didn't it? Sure, Daddy. It started with having John come on this little public affairs program I did call on the record. It's a show that you have a politician one week and somebody trying to sell a book the next week and assume, if you really know one watches, you know, it's a very small, dedicated audience. Well, John came on and all of a sudden my phone started lighting up. I had him on again and the public response was incredible. People were obviously hungry for this sort of information. And it occurred to me that there seems to touch something with the public's fault. And the more I did on it, the more response I got from the public.

21:34Which also made it curious to me why a mainstream, other mainstream journalist would not take a fair look at it because after all ratings are part of the business. Oh, there's no question about it. But you're also right, it really touches something in the public. And this is something I've observed doing shows on it over the years, George. There is more interest in this than I think the average person can imagine. Surely the anchors who laugh it off as the final story generally in a newscast if there's something to be said, I don't think they understand how much real interest, significant interest, mainstream interest. There is out there. Oh, they wouldn't unless they did something serious on it because, you know, I travel around all over the world and there is an innate sense among regular people everywhere that this is real. Now they don't fully understand what it is, but they know something's going on. Something's going on with the planet. There's some kind of other intelligence that's interacting with us. It's almost a subconscious kind of an understanding.

22:34And people in the public eye with the news anchors who stop, they're going to have to get the message sooner or later because it's real without there and regular people all over the world. How much damage, George, was there to your mainstream journalistic career in your opinion when you began doing this? Certainly prior to, just prior to and definitely after best evidence. Your name became connected with the UFO phenomenon. And how did that affect your career? I guess there was quite a bit of damage in one sense. The damage to be with my colleagues and I've talked to Linda Howell about this before as well. You know, you can do all the stories in the world about organized crime and corruption and things like that and when this award gets this person fired and do whatever, but when you tackle something like this suddenly you're not the same person anymore and it's hard to figure out why. With my colleagues, I think there was a lot of damage, but with the people that

23:39counted the viewing audience, the general public, it was a big problem. There were a lot of night comment made at the newspapers here in Las Vegas. Those are still going on. I've seen them executed a couple of editorial cartoons that are very funny and that's part of the territory. I don't want it. Some of the shots are generally fascinating. I do arcade and people that get random go out and out and out and out and out and out and out and out and out and out and out. So, let me quickly like these situations George. We'll be right back. Good evening everybody. You're listening to Area 2000. From Jackie Gunn's Poise at Down Town. This is Katie WN Las Vegas.

24:51Good evening from Las Vegas. We will in a bit have the lines open. You'll be able to ask George Napa question. He's a man who has in a way sacrificed a mainstream career to begin looking into something that all of you I know find fascinating in the world of UFOs. And toward that end, George, are you still there? Perfect. Good. With all of the investigation you've done. From then when you began until now, are you and I ask everybody this? Are you convinced, absolutely convinced, that we are being visited? Yes. I would have to say yes. I don't understand these cosmic implications of it. I think Linda has a much better grasp on that. There are certain people who have a much deeper thinkers than I am in terms of what these beings are, where they're from or why they could be here, but there are definitely some interactions, there's intelligence.

25:52I don't understand the big picture. As a reporter, I'm more interested in the government's response to the phenomenon and the phenomena itself, but it in my mind is definitely real. In your mind, George, is it benign or malevolent? I would have to say benign. Perhaps even the technology demonstrated is too powerful. It's going to be benevolent. They could certainly help us. If they were going to be more benevolent, they could certainly hurt us. It doesn't appear that they've been willing to do either. They seem to be whatever it is. They seem to be more interested in helping themselves, something that we have that they need. That's not true. I can put it in. Let's back up a little bit. Really, you're the fellow who broke the whole bizarre business. Bob Lazar has been a hot topic and still is his story. You've had a lot of time to digest it. Plenty of time to talk to Bob Lazar and look into his story. What have you

26:56concluded? I think Bob is throwing the truth. Whether that is absolute truth, that everything that he said that he saw is real and true. And out there, I don't know. I mean, even Bob will admit that there were some games played with his mind by these people that the folks who are running this program are experts in this information, that they may have ulterior motives in dealing with it. But I know that the story that Bob told me the first time I met him is the same story he's telling today. A lot of it checks out. Now, there are gaps. There's no question about it. Things which cannot be documented. There are things in his story which do not make sense. But there is too much information, too much circumstantial, too much corroborative information about what he said that checked out. He just simply dismisses it. I guess the fun thing, the cool thing to say, in UFO circles, these days is that it's all some sort of a different information. And a lot of people believe that Bob is part of that plot. I can tell you flat out categorically that that is not the case. Bob may have been used to some extent. But I believe that he is telling the truth about what he saw out there.

28:01That's basically the bottom line. How are the publications, the various UFO publications, treating the Lazar story? People are like, in general, it's like I said, it got cool to say it's all disinformation. There was one very prominent UFO publication that sent some people out to the Rachel get together a couple of months ago. And the article generally focused on Bob. The fact that he drove up in the Corvette and that he was wearing a white turtle neck and he had his latest female flame on his arm and he had a Hollywood hairdo. Those sorts of things. Of course, the mainstream press has been even nastier. It's amazing to me. After we had did our stories, the series in 1989, everyone took pot shots at it. But none of the other media here in Nevada were willing to send a reporter eight miles up the road to check this stuff out. Now this is the heck of a big story. It's a heck of a big story. If it's true, it's a very interesting story. It's not true. That just plain doesn't make any sense. It'll make any sense, especially the RJ, which has been the most vehement critic about this stuff. The first time I ever heard or read

29:05the rumors about alien technology at Area 51, it was reported just as that. A rumor in an RJ story about the military land seizure around Rume Lake. It's interesting to me that they felt it was sufficiently interesting to throw it into a story that there's a rumor about alien technology, but what didn't find it sufficiently interesting to actually assign a reporter to it? Check it out. Well, that just doesn't make sense. As you know, I live out there where you are at the moment. And I have my own little sighting, a fairly serious sighting, George. And the newspaper in front of a printed story, the week after I had my sighting, talking about a classified C-130 mission. I couldn't believe it. A C-130 is insulting this gigantic triangular thing floated slowly and silently above me, and they try to tell me it's a C-130. Is that typical? Certainly is. I remember the story about the flight of a Japan airline flight

30:05flight between Japan and Alaska. The pilot, not just this gigantic wall-match-hate object, quite a size of a battleship, followed their plane. This thing was picked up on an airport radar. It was picked up on ground radars, the pilots themselves, followed them for a long period of time. They later denied the radar, didn't they? Oh, I think so, but they're all kinds of pressures and the broads of air on at these. Are they tried to say that it was planet Venus right off the path before those... Excuse me, Jupiter. Jupiter? Jupiter. Twice the size of a battleship. Well, that's been close to the pilots, you know. That's been slightly given to one comment that Jupiter does not look like a giant flying wall-match. That kind of stuff goes on half a time. Yeah, after I read this article in the paper that a lady was kind enough to send me, send me. I just was flat angry. I was my whole face flushed. I was so angry, I couldn't believe it. However, on the other side, it was very good. You know, I subscribed to something. There's a little bulletin called the secrecy in government bulletin that comes out, it's published by the Federation of American Scientists. And they don't feel that the USO topic

31:08is much but they do deal with that. They come together in secrecy issues and flenable things in different countries. But if you remove in certain concretions issues, it does tick. They don't feel the idea. Well, let's justitous conversation between what action is going forward speaking things I would like to see, tell the audience, again, if you would please, about a picture that you had possession of for a while here. Let me set it up this way, is that Bob Lizar for those who don't know, has said that he worked at an area designated S4 on the Hapu's Dry Lake bed, which is just a few miles south of the groom's Dry Lake bed. He said that there were hangers built into the side of a mountain adjacent to this Dry Lake bed that, inside these hangers, were alien sausage discs, one of which he saw fly.

32:13Nine of them, nine of them. And Bob is a pretty bright guy. He says that the physics involved in the propulsion system is not of Earth's origin. And it's been one heck of a struggle to try to prove that what Bob is saying is true. I can tell you this, two people that I know with high level security clearances have been to the Hapu's area in the last three months. And both say that they flew over this area, there are no hangers, there are no saucers, there are no indications there has ever been anything there. If what Bob is saying is true. Is that still restricted airspace? It is restricted airspace, that the whole area, area 51, groom-like Hapu's very highly restricted so they took their chances then. They, the Nellers pilots refer to it as the BAC because if you fly into that area, your butt is in trouble. Anyway, it's been difficult to prove that there was anything ever going on there. One of my sources who was out there was told there had never been any programs at Hapu's

33:13and in fact that the dry lake bed was still so contaminated from radioactive test years ago that nothing could go on there, which is just an absolute pack of alone. There aren't that many hot spots still out at the Matic test site. And I now have documentation to prove that. Anyway, the company in California associated with a movie studio, so once to produce a story about Bob, those other life experiences at Hapu's, is strong for Soviet satellite photos. And they went back to Lincoln, N.D. Yig, bought this photo and it's fairly exorbitant price to zero in on the Hapu's lake area to see what they could see. The photo that I was shown shows that it's a flying saucer art. I mean, there's no other way to describe it. It's a big, fat flying saucer struck in the air, flying over Hapu's lake. That is in the initialized by the folks who formerly worked for NASA. I am told that as additional analysis is being done on the photos, additional photos are trying to be obtained.

34:13And that not only this disc is caught in the air, but that there are roads leading into the area where Bob was art that hangers were, that black buses are parked outside and whatever it would suggest is, Bob would tell them the truth and somebody has destroyed the hangers, moved the equipment and tried to cover it up. George, I've heard a lot about photographic analysis. I've had some experts say that in this day of digital technology, just about anything can be faked. How well these photos are, are they going to be able to nail down the authenticity of this photograph? Oh, the people who I've been told are working on this are just about as good as you can. And if it's a fake, they should be able to tell us. Because again, there's a company that bought the photos. It's other people, independent people. And I'll see. So the origin of the photos is well known. They're Russian. And I guess the Russians sell just about anything these days. Exactly right. And I suspect that if the photos had been touched up, and somebody wanted to prove that,

35:13it's a very simple matter because I know the date of the photo was taken. And anybody could go to the Russians if they want to pony up the box. And get their own copy and see if it was with pony. It's interesting to know it also. Do you know the satellite that took them? Because that might be another way to confirm, George. You could literally, if you have the name of the satellite, the Russian satellite that took the photograph, you could look at orbital tracks and determine that on that day and that time it was in that area. It is known to the people who bought the photo. I don't know what off hand, but yes, it is known. So that would be another good way to check. It is interesting also that the Russians were taking regular photos of that area out there, on-going basis, before May of 1989. They do one a month, two a month, something like that. After May of 1989, all of sudden, the Russians started taking photos like crazy. Now, along with the photos, they will give you a list of all the photos that they have all the time and dates of when they took snapshots of that area.

36:14And before the May of 1989, they take one or two here and there. After May of 1989, they were taking them basically every day. What happened in May of 1989 is that was Bob Rar's first appearance on TV. That's the coincidence. Maybe not. Maybe they saw that technology flying about and threw up their hands and said that's it, we quit. OK, Dave, but Bob suggested that the Russians were in on that program at one point. And that then kind of a discovery was made at some point that at least that's what he was told, and the Russians who pulled it out. Wow, I thought it was. Well, of course, we have Ronald Reagan back. The best point is saying that we were going to share the Star Wars technology within the years. I certainly do. That was the exact same case. Where there are a lot of interesting connections for the Star Wars. So Bob has found that Bob has been using photos of many of the incredible out of that program in order to fund the cross-year research. I learned a lot about the same thing in Russia, about a connection to the Star Wars program over there.

37:15That's why we should get into that trap a little bit later. All right, what about the whole aspect of government cover up? You say you're sure they are here. That means, surely, that our government knows, perhaps they're playing about some of the technology I can imagine. That which I saw out there could have used that sort of technology. I can't imagine what else would have done it at any rate. So the government knows they've been keeping its secret all this time. This is a standard government cover up question, George. How can they keep its secret? Well, as Linda Howell has said to me in interviews, you have to have a context in which to view this story, people talk, documents, leaks, books are written. But unless you have the proper context to evaluate it, it doesn't mean anything in a person's day to day life. This is a non-secret secret. I mean, enough people have talked about it. There's enough information out there. For example, a journalist like myself who wants to take the time to look at it, I can't help but come away, persuaded that this is really going on,

38:15that there really is a cover up on it. Yeah, but isn't it a little like the Kennedy conspiracy in the sense that there actually is so much that's been said about it, so much that if the truth suddenly came out, if George and I have the truth in his hand and he came out and had a big press conference and told the world, it would be just one more theory on the pile of theories that it'd be lost. That's exactly true. And you know, when we did the documentary, that's the best evidence in this theory is actually the lead to the documentary. It sort of brought things home for the local audience in a way that I don't think like, for example, a national expose I could do. People see this stuff on television all the time. They see the ex-files, they see unsolved mysteries, and they can, too, I think, equate some of these kinds of revelations with the movie of the week. Well, that's very interesting. And then go back to it to wait up for Letterman or something. The fact that they saw this on local news with personalities and reporters involved who were known to them, who had been in their living rooms and that they knew lived among them sort of made a difference.

39:15And I think that had a lot to deal with the why that program had such an impact here. You know, that program, George, should have been national. Did you make any attempt or did anybody ever approach you about that? At several inquiries from producers that wanted to go national. I talked to CBS for a while. They had seen the bizarre material where it sounded. They said, hey, we'll get our conversation. If they didn't know whether to give it to 60 minutes or the evening news, and then nothing happened. Nothing happened. I know that there have been a lot of inquiries from the tabloids I've shown. I was going to suggest Fox. It seems to me that something they might like. Oh, yeah, it's entirely possible. I think a lot of these material in that is, I don't want to say past day, it's delicious thing, but as so much as going under the bridge in San, it has so much change and so much new information. It comes to light. All right, that brings us to the new information. And I know that you're working on something very serious right now. What are you doing?

40:17A year, I worked for the company called Alpamera. And they basically give me the green light to produce what I hope will be. The most comprehensive series of these UFO documentaries every theft ever done. I mean, suit did not be beginning with an overview of the whole phenomenon, all the different aspects of it. Zeroing in on the cover-up issue in a more comprehensive way that's ever been done. Anywhere, abductions would be its own separate topic that crops are full. The whole wall of wax, all in one big theory. How long will it be? I outline 10 programs already. How long is each one? approximately an hour to an hour and a half. Oh, this is significant. Yeah, we are currently editing the third of those programs. And I think it's about the best stuff I've ever done on this topic and maybe on anything. It's important to put it in a format that people will take seriously. We poke fun at some of the aspects of it as well.

41:18And I think that's only natural. I'm really, really jazzed about this. We've been working really hard. We've been traveling all over, have interviews with basically all of the knowledgeable people in this field. Try to separate the wheat from the chaff. We're leaving out some of the crazy zanies, the conspiracy buffs and the zealots. And getting down to the heart of the matter. What are your intentions for this series? Where would you like to see it? We're looking at going directly to home video. We're going to market it on television and as well as through a couple of other venues that main these three television. We're constructing the programs in a way that if there was broadcast interest and there already has been some, it wouldn't be hard to put it into that sort of a format. But mainly to go directly into the home. Because I think it's the kind of thing that people should have in their home. It's that important. It shouldn't be the kind of thing that you switch the channel and that you don't think about anymore. And then the things are so packed like your show are. I mean, it's so packed, you gotta listen to it more than once.

42:19Be sure of that. All right, let's cover a few aspects of this larger phenomenon. One that I know that you know a lot about and I want to ask you about is remote viewing. Almost everybody that I talk to keeps touching on this remote viewing thing. And I know that you've investigated this a little bit. It's a little off topic, but I want my audience to understand what remote viewing is and what you know about it. Oh, I guess we would have called it basically psychic research years ago. All of a sudden the remote viewing term started coming into popular use a few years ago. My own interest in it was really deep with the trip to Russia. You know, like I said, I'm more of a nuts than both guys show me a document, show me a witness. That's sure the thing, show me a rap and try to stay away from more of the encepheric topics, channeling automatic writing those things because it didn't always see the direct connection to UFOs until this Russia trip. We dealt with a general over there who reports directly to the Russian equivalent of colon

43:24pal. His boss is the number one guy in the Russian ministry of the sent and he runs a program that for once of a better term it deals with remote viewing. He prefers the term enhanced human potential. It's kind of around about way until it gets hooked up to UFOs, but he and I said, teachers, regular people, it says everyone has this ability to some extent. Teachers, regular people to tap into a universal country, call it the force if you want, if you're a fan of George Lucas. But it's tapping into this thing. You get into contact with, say, E-claim and his disciples claim on a regular basis from sort of alien intelligence. You also enhance your own intelligence and human intelligence. I saw a train film used by the Russian ministry of defense, by the Russian military, by Russia's KGB and police agencies in which these techniques are applied and it'll just not be sought to. For example, they now say they would take some Navy cadets down because the bottom of the ship,

44:25they leave them there for a couple of days, a window, bring them up to a map room and then say locate all the targets located within 50 miles a year and they would do it, with 70 percent accuracy. We take Air Force cadets, put them in a plane, hide them over these fields where targets are camouflaged. They find the targets and tell us what's under the camouflage. They would put them in a room and have them target practice with handguns, they do that nature, turn off all the lights and then let them fill the getting the target. Okay, I had no idea George that there was a connection to an alien intelligence at all. I'd never heard that with remote fueling. Oh, that's what they're saying. That's what the Russian saying is that as part of this enhanced human conscious capability, you tap into this universal consciousness that other beings are tapped into as well. The memory gets very, very strange and I have trouble in dealing with some of it, but I have to keep reminding myself just who I am dealing with there. This is a top, top, Russian general who reports directly to the top of their military.

45:27They take it seriously, they're training their troops and officers with these techniques. And it was just flat amazing. Now, we have a program like that as well that is not as far along. I know this because the man who had access overseas this project to defend the mind and it's a important contact of mine. I use also somebody that's very interested in U.S. modes. The remote viewers that we have, employees by the United States government working on 10-A-GOT program, have also encountered a failure of being tapped into the case. That other kind of entities as well, so that our and the council have the best time to defend human capabilities for the projected consciousness around the world, and people, people, people, now, people, people, and people, and it's just so hard to support them. That's incredible. Well, do you know what? This ability to tell people things that have, isn't very hard to be, right? I've never had a heart attack on a board. So, I've been trying to have more capacity than we have to know about it.

46:29But now the connection with the front does absolutely incredible. And I wonder if it might be true that the condition that you put yourself in to be able to remotely view is the same condition that opens you to the possibility of this contact. I suppose so. I know there is a physical regimen involved in that they would say what if the Russians at least don't want their subjects to eat meat but have currently, once you get involved in this training, you don't want to be eating meat anyway, there's no alcohol, no cigarettes, no drugs, there's any sort of confusion. But I guess after you're into it for a while, you don't want to do any of that stuff. Anyway, I know that the difference between the American program and the Russian program is the Americans are feeling with people who already had demonstrated psychic abilities. Whereas the Russians specifically went out and found average people who had no such experience. None they'd ever demonstrated before. In essence, they want to prove that it's possible for everyone to do it. And I'll tell you this, when we got back from Russia, I told my friend in

47:30Washington about my Russian contact. He knew that the program existed but had no access to it. We set up a meeting between Washington and their friends in Moscow. And now they have reached the agreement to have joint research on this program. So that the Russians can share with us what we know and we can share with them what you got there. Yeah, I do. I know that the Russians, since the end of communism, have gone kind of bonkers on this kind of thing. And I think on there, just before their evening newscast every night, they have a faith healer that comes on. Did you see a lot of that kind of thing? Is there much of it going on as has been reported? Well, there is a lot of it, but you've got to realize what they're coming out of. You know, some of those, the ultimate debunkers over here in America, have already been setting themselves up so they can dismiss anything that comes out of Russia by saying, well, those Russians are crazy. They're all under, they're all just like it's stuff and jokes. You can't believe anything. They say you can't believe them. Well, they can't believe the Americans.

48:30What do you have to say about the amazing Randy? You know, is that a thing, the amazing Randy or whatever you've said? Um, he, uh, he's a people, too. See, he's an amazing guy. He's got a great, great job. He's got a great job. He's got a great job. He's got a great job. He can bounce this, this, this, this, and he actually wants to rush a, and uh, he bumped a button from a bunch of Russians. So we're explaining a remote viewing capability and, uh, uh, I think it was one Russian in frame, but it's raised. It's about pressure, a heartbeat, uh, of an individual or change that into visual brain waves. And, uh, and as I watched that, I thought, you know, it is pretty simple to debunk. It's easier to debunk if you didn't see almost anything else. Well, that's true. Uh, and it's sad, like I said, that these people with these blankets, these are missing anything that might come out of Russia before they even know what it is, but that's exactly what they're doing. It's too bad that they have stolen the word skeptics and skepticism,

49:31because it means a lot something much different from, from how it's been twisted. It's not that disputes don't believe. Uh, they refuse to believe, and it doesn't matter what happened in Chikachoa. All right, let me quickly win them a lot of times to put the top of the hour. I want to jump to abduction, because a lot of the guests that I've had on the program have said, you know, we know the UFOs are there. There are so many reports that it's almost not even interesting, unless one, you know, wants to land on the White House long, or something. Otherwise, I think they say it's a step. They're here. What we're now interested in are these abductions, and they are probably the best thing to look at for proof. Would you agree with that? Oh, I think that's where the phenomenon is heading, you know, and dealing with people like Black Hawkins and Linda and Dr. John McAfarriti. That seems to be where it is heading. It seems like there's other intelligence, whatever it is, wherever it's from. Keeps raising the stakes. Used to be just like this guy, and then it was crashed, and then crashed, and landed, and then Cuban-oys like teachers and so on. No, it's been, we started having interaction,

50:32reported on sporadic faces, like Freddy and Farne Hill. Male, the stakes have been up. This is happening to a lot of people, a lot of people who are not making this step up. A lot of people who really are physically missing, who have physical indications that something really happened to them, who's lives are messed up by what happens to them, and who tell their stories a great personal way. I really do believe that that is where the phenomenon is heading. It's not our choice, it's the choice of whoever's on the other side, calling the shots. Um, you've produced documents, which were also said in this. Now in 1993, if you had to say what you thought felt evident, what you think was evident. What would you say? What is that statement? Right, I'm just talking about it. What about the other statement? All right, because I've already listened an awful lot about it. I'm going to have to think about it before or with that. I wonder, for example, if it's your current baby, these pictures of the fifth, uh, after...

51:32I don't know, because until I get my own independent evaluation of the pictures, I would be reluctant to say that I hope that that ruins out to be. But I suspect that as you suggest this, when we first started talking about these, is that with such incredible technology these days, to do this and that with graphics and computer technology, I'm not sure any picture of any nature would convince people. All right. Hypnotic regression as a tool. I think it's very valuable. A couple of points that Bud always makes is, you know, 25 to 30% of the cases he deals with, these people remember this information. Without hypnotic regression, obviously there have been abuses over the years, but I sat in on a couple of these sessions. John Carpenter came out to Nevada, and I would be asked several months ago, and did some work with an Nevada family that's been going through absolute hell, with some kind of an alien presence for a long time. I watched his technique, and although the critics will say that

52:33Hypnotic, Hypnotic, Hypnotherapists lead the witnesses to certain conclusions. Right. They're completely the opposite of what Carpenter did. He would, for example, use questions about assuming that if he had said disc-shaped craft, he would ask the people, look around in the corners, tell me what to see in the corners, as they're under hypnosis. Well, that's a genuine confabulation incident. If somebody was making this stuff up in their head, they would make something up that they would see in the corner. The UFOs at that team, who is in a disc-shaped craft, gets a puzzle, look on their face, look around and can't see any corners. That's sort of a thing. Every step that he took, at least in the eight sessions that I sat in, led the witnesses away from the standard scenario of an affection, as opposed to leading them toward it. And I suppose the mainstream journalist in you looks very carefully for exactly that sort of thing. Well, absolutely. You don't want to be part of a story that's going to turn out to be bogus and blow up in your face. I mean, the key is for people like you and Linda and others is personal credibility.

53:35So, once you blow it, it's gone. That's a fact. George, we're up to a newscast here at the top of the hour. So, relax for five minutes. We'll come back and open the lines, all right? All right, stay right there. If you want to start stacking up on the lines for George Naff, this will be your opportunity. We'll get the numbers out, as soon as we come back from the news. This is Area 2000. From Jackie Guns, Plaza Downtown, this is KDWN Gloss Vegas. Good evening. Welcome back to Area 2000. I'm Arthel. My guest is George Naff. Most of you know him. Those that don't dwell soon. He is a journalist. He's a reporter on this program on a weekly basis. And he's respected throughout the entire UFO community.

54:36If you would like to speak with George Naff, this is going to be your opportunity. Let me give you the relevant telephone numbers. In the metropolitan area of Las Vegas, the metric number is 383-8255-383-882-55. Outside the state, toll free. It's 1-800-338-8255-183-382-582-555. Then we have the wild card lines. It area codes 702-385-7214-7214-14. And then finally, first time callers at area code 702-385-7213-7213. And now back to George Naff. George? Good. One last area and then we'll take phone calls. And the last area I want to cover with you is crop circles.

55:39How much connection I asked Linda, of course, about this, with respect to crop circles and the animal mutilations? We might as well try and cover both. There seems to be more of a connection to the UFOs than not. Is that an opinion you share or what is your thinking in this area? Yes, it is an opinion I share. I mean, there's far too many witnesses who have seen anomalous aerial phenomena in association with the formation of these things. In addition, the kind of changes that are occurring in the plants and the soil are things that I'm not quite sure we have the technology to do. I also know from speaking with other researchers who are far more involved with this topic than I am, at least as far as crop circles go, that there is intense government intelligence agency interest in the subject. Several of these researchers have been approached, have been offered, have been threatened, and essence by people who want to be able to control the flow of information about the crop circles.

56:40It seems like whatever intelligence is behind this phenomenon is sending a message that can't be easily brushed away by government intelligence agencies. They're trying to send a message to, I don't think we understand exactly what it is yet, perhaps it's some sort of a subconscious level that can't be swept away like a document can or a witness can. It'd be like trying to sweep away the crap nebula. All right, it's been a long time since I think you've been directly in contact with the public. All right, let's do it. Lots of calls. Wild card line 3, good evening. You're on the air with George now. Yes. Hello. Yes, sir, you're on the air. Go ahead. George, when I was a kid driving by, he's flying. There's something wrong with your phone lines, sir. It's got a big hum on it. All right, that's better. That enough? Yeah, that's better. Go ahead again, please. Driving back from Florida, in Georgia, we stopped in a gas station and went to sleep. We woke up. There was a light like daylight all around, so we jumped up and we got,

57:44you know, we just got out of there. Now, going back to New York, we almost got killed twice. Once we're going up on the Chosey Taipei, for more and better than reason, we're on the side going up when cars are coming down. And we switched, how we switched over, how we even got there. And then coming in from Arizona one time with me, my wife, and my children with two cars, they just went better at the same point. And then the background on the mountains, we seen some, you know, strange shape objects. And the water cars came by. You know, it's a funny situation. I just can't understand. Well, I'm pretty familiar with a lot of the cases that people like Bredhawk and have been digging up, but what you are describing, sounds very close to a missing time experience for one minute here somewhere in the next minute, here somewhere else. A lot of times, these happening cars where people suddenly find themselves that their destination, either really late or really early. And don't remember how they got there. Also, what you're

58:45describing is, you know, more than one experience, which as we're learning more about this phenomenon, seems to be how it goes. It's not chance encounters that people have. People are followed. Families are often for generations by whatever intelligence we're dealing with. I sympathize with the weirdness of your experience. The only consolation I can give you is that there are a lot of other people who have gone through the same thing. Well, I mean, it's really don't bother me what happens. You know, I'm starting to think about this new world border and all. You know, I think that, you know, I'm starting to think that maybe they're trying to change our mind in order for these people to go over the university and build a lot of times because they got plenty of time to don't mean them. They may not happen. Now, I tell you, where are you calling from? A Vegas. Well, Vegas. All right, thank you. George, you know, there are a number of UFO researchers and I won't name them, who seem to have almost branched out from the UFO phenomenon, perhaps through the cover-up aspect of it,

59:47into the new world order business. Why are they making that connection? Well, I put it this way. I try to keep an open mind on just about everything. I don't want to just just shut something out just because it sounds weird. Why they make the connection in a lot of cases is because they're profitiers or because they're right-winged, financial types who are trying to draw attention to themselves, or they have a religious agenda that they want to pursue or they just want attention. I have seen no compelling evidence of it kind of a new world order threat. I'm open to it if someone's got it. You know, there's the trial laterals and the Council of Foreign Relations and the builder burgers and the Illuminati on the Jason Society and you've got any number of conspiracy theories that some, at least a few of these researchers have tried to tile them into, you know, the mother of all conspiracy theories and they're all involved with the alien. I just don't see a compelling case to that. Now, there may be some other political agenda that's going on. I certainly believe that there is corrupt

1:00:50collaboration between certain governments on a ULCOVERUP, but I don't see any positives. There's have to new world orders, the one-world governments, but it's always time to create a camp door and I'm just thinking of something that the evidence suggests is the treaties with aliens. There may have been communication at an end point. I find that entirely possible. But aliens, if that's what you want to call them, don't need our permission. For example, to go ahead and abduct people because we couldn't stop them if they wanted to. All right, let's come to people as tomorrow. All right. Good evening. You're on the air with George Naff from Jackie Gorn Flasso Hotel. Where are you calling from? San Diego. San Diego. Okay, go ahead. How can you get a non-believer to become a believer? Well, that's a tough one. I think it has to be a relatively slow process. You don't try to convert them like you would convert to someone religiously. You just show them some of the best information. I would start with a couple of books. Any of the book by Jacques Valais, Timothy Good's book about top secret is a good place to start and let them delve into it themselves.

1:01:54I mean, people have to reach this conclusion on their own. I think most people would reach the same conclusion that I've reached if they take the time to do it, but it's not something that happens overnight. By the way, where does your career go from here? When you're finished producing this long series that you're now doing, what do you see ahead for George Naff? Okay, that's a good question, Arden. It's a scary question, and I'm not quite sure. I mean, I'd like to see this out until the final resolution to this question is reached. Whether or not that's going to happen in my lifetime, I don't know. It could happen next week, and then I'd be looking for something else to do. But I have a lot of different kinds of interest. It just happens to be the dominant interest at the moment. Understood. I frequently asked my guest this, and I will ask it of you because it's such a good question. If you had conclusive and contravertible evidence that they are here, and you could prove it, I mean, you just could go on television and lay it out and prove it. Would you do it? I don't think there's any question I would do it. I mean, I have had those goals, no same kind of

1:02:58full searching sessions. I've had those conversations with other researchers. I've actually gone back and forth on that occasion, late because you realize that the world is going to be very different. There are going to be profound effects. I'm not sure people would panic in the street, but there would be some who would panic. There would be profound economic effects. It would have a dramatic impact on the world as we know it. But it goes back to net day. What net day had taught me, that the journalist Frito, the ethical imperative is get the story, get it right, and tell us it matters who it helps or who it hurts. When journalists start employing self-censorship, then they're not doing what they're paid to. But are there not George occasionally times? I mean, if you had this evidence, and the government came to you and said, look, we know you're about to blow this, but listen, here are the reasons why you should and lay down some no doubt national security matters, or lay down several studies to you that would show that psychologically,

1:04:03the American public would not be ready for it and it would cause great social disruption. Would it stop you? I guess it would. Oh, I don't know. I mean, I don't want to say absolutely, because there are few absolute rights I can't say that they would have to be gone. The government's going to have a high couple of other credibility with me or with a lot of other people to begin with. It's not to be an awfully persuasive case. I would not say absolutely that with not going along with it. Oh, no. All right. Lion one good evening. You're on the air with George and that's a very interesting night. A couple of things with the abduction that are going on, it reminds me of what we do with research, with animal research and in what sense? The same way as I was watching a thing on television the other day, where they were working with gorillas and stuff like this and with lines and going in and taking samples and doing stuff like

1:05:09this and it might be the same way that they're just doing a zoological research on us as another entity. But the other part was you were talking about most viewing. What do you know about this guy by the name of Al Beelik that was talking about a lot of the same things that you're talking about. Oh yes. All right, sir. Thank you. Al Beelik and the Philadelphia. No, I know of Al Beelik. I've come close to meeting him a couple of times. I don't know a great deal about the Philadelphia Experiment or the Montauk Project at just tangential information. I think it's an interesting topic and it certainly has a UFO connection. But if you're asking me, is Al Beelik a credible guy? I have no indication of otherwise whether or not the Montauk Project is real or the Philadelphia Experiment really happened. I really would be reluctant to say. It's probably the abduction question the comparison to animal research, but the fear comparison because what a lot of the affecties are reporting is the taking of physical samples, the scoops of flesh,

1:06:10sperm and ovum samples and that's the sort of thing that we do with the left intelligence feedings. After speaking to folks like David Jacobson, but Hopkins and John Mc, it seems to be something else that they're looking for, some sort of an interaction with our species. Something that we have that they can't duplicate in laboratory and a lot of people with John Kupner included and suggested that that's something to do with the human soul. That's the the affecties, a lot of them that are reporting having hybrid. George, that's something that John lear has been talking about for some time. Is it soul? Yes, yes. I think John has picked up that tidbits here and there from Bob Lagarde and others and maybe has gone his own way with it, but the discussion of the interest in the soul is not only new with John, it's with the streamer has suggested that he felt the visitors were interested in the soul. Dr. John Mc, has said something similar that we have something that they need and they want some sort of an

1:07:11ongoing relationship perhaps even they are hoping that if we're going to kill ourselves, blow ourselves up or poison up planet that something human or humanoid, human like will survive. George, we touched on Al Bielick and that's kind of an almost a time travel story and I've always it's been a personal fascination for me, the possibility of time travel. A, is anybody working on time travel that you know of? I am right now reading a fascinating book by Ganym Mark Davenport, it's called Visitors from Time, the Secrets of the UFOs in which this guy analyzes UFO sightings, UFO phenomenon over the years and it's a very persuasive case that the technology being exhibited by these these crafts is a time travel technology as opposed to just what we would call a propulsion system. That's also fully consistent with what Bob Luzar has said that part of the research that was going on out there was dealing with time travel. All right, I interviewed John

1:08:15Lear not long ago and Bob Luzar also came on the program on my syndicated program and a lot of people seem to think or there is a rumor going about that Bob Luzar might be working on some sort of time travel apparatus and I asked Bob and he said no I'm not. I said well, Bob if you were would you tell me and he paused for a long moment said no. What a physical classic Bob. Hey I talked to Bob on a fairly regular basis and I think I probably would have caught some wind up if he was working on a time machine of some sort. I think he may have learned enough to where he might be able to work on something like that in the future, learned enough in other words from his experiences at four bucks. A less to my knowledge he's not doing that now. This book anyway by Mark Davenport it's really a persuasive case that's what the technology being exhibited is time travel and you might be an interesting guest. That's a good idea. Well maybe Angela Thompson and

1:09:17I can try to set that up. All right, mention it to Angela please. Good evening on the Wild Cloudline 2 I guess it is. You're on the air with George Nath. That's good evening off and the good evening Mr. Nath. Good evening. I was very reluctant to undergo hypnosis but I had an occurrence which had to terminate his recurring dreams and I would warn the undergoer to see what's a my interpretation was right. Once I ever had a time when I put my religion in the entire state. Most of the ever economy here on air for the accounts that you have listened to upon occasion which was abandoned and there are descendants on the earth here and now of that original colony from an extraterrestrial and that they are now a returning and warning of certain people of a coming catastrophe. Have you heard that at any time? I heard it again and again and again. But Hopkins refers to these kinds of apocalyptic visions as alien editorial.

1:10:25He's not entirely convinced that what they alien are describing or in many cases graphically illustrating to the abductees is actually going to happen as opposed to they're trying to give us a message that you better clean up your act. As for the ancient civilization, of course that version I wish I could answer your question about whether it's true or not because it would answer a lot of the things that you can't understand. I just don't know. I experience the atmosphere of now half thousand and there be suited when they come back but nothing like three thousand out of an astronaut or an underwater anything like that. Well you know what we've been hearing and I think what I've discussed last week is that again and again there seems to be some kind of a growing sense of urgency of a travel around the country and speaking not only to researchers but just members of general public. Abductees are getting messages. Regular people have got a real uneasy sense that something is happening. Clearly there are changes occurring in a planet. The crop circles, people like hollamandrus who are doing research on that feel that

1:11:31something or another. I've watched further information. I assume it was male, that he's clearly keeping with me. Only the visor across the eyes. Only a very narrow from temple to temple. It seemed to be an energy emanating from them. But there was no time. You had to communicate with others and that was it. I'll hang up and listen to you. All right. Thank you. That something George is imminent. Do you have that feeling too? Do you have any sense of something around? It's hard to separate it because again I try to be that the blanks wait and listen to what people say and try to separate the truth from fiction that. But I keep hearing it over and over again from people who's opinions I really respect. So whether or not I feel it myself or whether I've just heard it so many times. I don't know. I'm reluctant to give too much credence to these predictions because as you and I have spoken many times, we hear them over and over again and it doesn't seem like any of them come through. But what about the proposition George so that they're getting us ready for this information that all these programs on television and they're abundant these days about the sort

1:12:35of thing are preparing us mentally. Oh, I find that completely credible. I don't know. When you human mind is trained to look for patterns in these sorts of things. Certainly over the last 40 years our attitudes about aliens have changed a lot. Our attitudes about space travel have changed a lot. What we think is possible from the getting elsewhere. And certainly, you know, what the movies that used to show aliens here to eat us have changed. Now there's our thinking keys, our space residents. We've got mainstream shows on television now that that clearly takes the subject seriously. Anyone who's got a television has been exposed to this stuff again and again. I think it is a program of conditioning. It has worked. And if it is not, it has the same effect. All right, let's keep going. From Jackie Gondzlava hotel, you're on the air with George Nap, did evening wear. Are you calling something? Barack, California. All right. So right ahead. On in search of us watching the crop circle section and they said that they caught one being made. I think the way she looked into that

1:13:37they said that they were researching the tape. Well, I know that there have been a couple of times when they have seen these odd aerial things flying over the circle. Whether or not they've seen one actually made, I haven't seen that tape. I know I've seen it. Yeah, look into the crop circle segments that they have in search of and that's toward the end there. They said that they caught one being made and that's their analyzing the film, the film footage. Did they suggest what what had made it? And no, they didn't suggest because they didn't want to say anything until they knew for sure. Also, you were asking earlier about what UFOs and the new world government had in common. Yes. Well, this is just a theory. I don't know for sure, but that supposedly a lot of people believe that that price came from. So the Virgin Mary was, they think she was implanted and by an alien and since the new world government is supposed to be just before the recumbing of Christ. So I think there is something there. All right.

1:14:42All right. I appreciate the call, Sarah. Thank you. So there is a connection, I suppose. And also George, that kind of talk, that kind of discussion brings on a lot of anger, boy, I'll tell you what, if you have some religious folk out there and they hear that, they just boil right over and generally you get it on the air and believe me, I've had it. So I know through, you know, but I dealt with a lot of religious folks over the years, religious leaders. In fact, earlier this year I went to Nashville, Tennessee to help produce a series on UFOs and they realized this is the Bible belt here. I better find out where I would stand in terms of a nasty public reaction. So one of the first people I thought out was one of the primary leaders in the Baptist community in Nashville and I laid it out to him, what if this is real? What if these aliens have been messing with us for a long time? And here's how the attitude was refreshing in its simplicity. He said, well, if they're out there, you know, God created them too and we have a message to give to them. In other words, he was ready to start converting them and having them sit in the pews. The next Sunday. Well, presumably though, if they are the ones

1:15:47who created us and God created them, that wouldn't be necessary. Oh, I guess that's true. I also spoke to some Mormon, some folks in the Mormon community here in Nevada, those Mormons are very conservative as you know. They see alien reality, they have no problem with it. In fact, much of their teaching suggests that we came from other planets. We were in essence seated here. So I think the idea that people with panic, that religions with crumble is probably exaggerated on the basis of those kinds of countries. I know, but I'll tell you right now, George, if the saucer came down and they walked out and they weren't in front of the White House or some other relatively safe area, somebody would fill them for a lift. Well, there's no doubt about that because it's happened enough times already with people. Shout out to them for their own rock. Exactly. Line two that evening you're on the Earth with George now. A good evening, George. I just want to ask my question, I just want to say here, that Elf Sela's in my opinion is a total collapse and he has created his own fantasies. Now, to the question,

1:16:48George, have you ever considered or have you been approached to make a documentary on the Philly Maya context case and what is your opinion about the Maya case? I have never been approached to make a documentary on it. I did include a segment on the Philly Maya case in the original UFOs the best evidence. I'm intrigued by the case. I think I look at some of the photos that occurred at the latter stages of Maya's experiences and they look completely phony. I look at some of the photos that were taken in the beginning. Some photos that are supported by multiple independent witnesses that they saw these things too and I'm very intrigued. I suspect it's like a lot of other UFO cases. Billi Maya might have been on to something with getting some genuine information, had some genuine contact, started drawing attention and drew the attention of intelligent agencies or others who wanted to discredit. We heard over and over again this story about a model that was found in a barn. I don't know that anyone has actually ever seen that model but you heard the story over and over again. Now, both of the defectors from the group and how can a one-on-one treat all those four-five different variations of UFOs, blessing us in those days,

1:17:54a millimeter footage. I mean, the man is honest. Of course, the map is going to fly in the UFO, we such a safe when the time comes because the millions of miles is not going to go away and eventually a worldwide distribution of information will come forward. All right, Sarah. Thank you. So that is a case you find intriguing for us. I find it intriguing. Like I said, I think somebody got to them or infiltrated this camp. He had all kinds of people that were living with him and staying with him and acting like his disciples. After a while, the attention may have gone to his head for a while. It's like anything else in this field. Everything is controversial as soon as there's almost nothing that even you follow just going to agree on. You know, the Gulf breeze case, tremendous photographs. A lot of corroborative evidence. No question about it. George, hold on just one sec while I ID. You're listening to Area 2000 from Las Vegas. I'm Mark Bell. My guest, George Napp. From Tanki Guns Plaza downtown. This is KVWN Las Vegas. Good evening. We're going right back to it.

1:18:57There's one local line that just popped open. That's it. That's all that's available. That number of course, 383, 8255, 8255. George, good. All right, back to a lot of people here, George. While card line two, you're on the air with George and App. Good evening. Well, this is Manurva. Manurva, where are you? You're in the California. You're in the Ureca, all right? I'd like to give you some information about a different kind of time traveling. This is a mental time traveling. It's a new book, a public last year about Nostradamus prediction, which is quite good. Written by Marie Sleuth, eight, let's cut. C-A-S-S-E. The concept of 1990's, but it's called Nostradamus, the voice of the echo through time. And he says, the third anti-cursed is Sodom, his name. And he's penned twice as a particular time, this is future interest, and that is the

1:20:02March in April of 1996. And I'm a amateur study of astrology. So I looked that up and it is very interesting. All right, so a different kind of time. It's not all that different, really, because there have been a number of things done on time travel that can actually be achieved with mind. And it again is a fascinating area for me, George. Do you have any comment on that? I just a little out of my area, like I said, I tried to keep an open mind about all of it, but it's not something I've been to, to any extent. All right, line three, good evening, you're on the air with George Naff. Well, hello. Yeah, I, yes. Hey, I had the two things, first of all, I was once and saw Al-B, and I spoke with him personally, and I felt like that for your last call. You think he's fantasized it? Well, yeah, it's got a good story, but he won't look at me.

1:21:03Well, no, no, I don't know if that's fair. I listened to the man for several hours. I don't know whether you heard the show I did with him or not, but he was pretty convincing, pretty credible. I don't know what he's like in person. That's why I had the problem. And there was rest credible everything that you did. Yeah, but there are people, you know, who... I'm not the last facial one, anything, but the other thing I want to talk to you about is that I saw something two years ago down at the Salt and Sea, and it was right where they had their bombing area down there, and we were out camping out there for about four or five days, and at night time we saw these two objects go through the sky so slowly, and there was no, there was no sound of an engine or anything, and we could see like a light on them, that appeared like there was some kind of windows or something, and you know, I saw it first, and I quoted it out to these other friends of our camping, and we watched this thing for about 15 minutes, and there was just two of them, and they just went slowly across the sky, and it was close enough where we... there was no wind, so we should have been able to hear their engine

1:22:07or something. And I thought that maybe that was something like a juice rod, but I would... That's why I chuckled, it sounded a little like what I saw. And that's the only experience that I ever had. That's a great show tonight. All right, appreciate it. Thank you. There's just another report. There are so many of them, George. I wonder really to how many there are. We hear people call this program like this, where nobody's going to laugh at them, but I would think that the great majority of UFO reports, or even abductions or experiences of that sort, would be not reported. I think the figure is 9 out of 10. It's an interesting dichotomy that even you follow, just let's admit that 9 out of 10 UFO sightings are probably miss identification, of explainable phenomenon, but it's also true that 9 out of 10 UFOs are never reported at all. And the simple fact is that there's no one to report them to. Of course, UFO organizations will take those reports, but there's not a majority of people even here in America,

1:23:11or not part of those organizations. There wouldn't be any contact one if they wanted to. Police agencies don't take the reports. The Air Force claims that it stopped in 1969, taking reports, so you can call your airport, and they'll keep you on the line to find out if you're not, but they don't take down the information. So it's just an essence. Most of that information is lost forever. All right, onward, good evening. You're on the air with George Knap. Where are you calling from, please? I'm calling from St. Louis, Missouri. Am? Yes, sir. Swaring, how many Democrats are freeing back from the election? How they got away? I'll tell you what. I know what you're doing. You're listening to my syndicated program in St. Louis, aren't you? Sam. All right, we are doing a different program on the air right now. What if it would have been? We'll be back, we're doing a program on UFOs, and we'll be back on the syndicated show live on Tuesday morning early. All right. All right. You're on the phone. Right. Have nothing to contribute on that, Doc. Well, in that case, good hearing from St. Louis anyway. Thank you, sir. Bye-bye.

1:24:13Line one, good evening. You're on the air with George Knap. Yes, I was wondering if you could give me some information on number one, Project Blue Book, exactly what it is, how it contains to the government, and number two. What it was? But it was? No, I don't know. They glowed at the... Oh, yes. And number two, it's a key call, something like the Moth Names Prophecy. Is that I think key all reported on it? George, do you know about that? I do a little bit. The first question, Blue Book was the name of the third official, at least publicly known, studied, launched by US military and the U.F.O. mystery. Although study is probably not a good term, used for Blue Book in essence, and everyone associated with it, including its first director, said that it was little more than the public relations exercise aimed at dismissing or explaining away U.F.O. sightings. The first two projects, which preceded Blue Book Project Sign and Project Grudge, were a little bit different. Project Sign was conducted in total secrecy. It concluded that the U.F.O.s were real

1:25:14and probably extra terrestrial. That recommendation was rejected by the head of the Air Force. Project Grudge then concluded U.F.O.s weren't worth studying. That was followed by Project Blue Book. In 1969, Project Blue Book ended when the military in essence announced that because of studies that it's done, there appeared to be no threat from U.F.O.s and that further study would be a waste of time. We also know for a fact, because of the Air Force's own internal documents, that there was an ongoing study that was even underway at the time of Project Blue Book. In any cases involving national security, like U.F.O.s over ICBM bases, went somewhere else. That's somewhere else, is still unknown to us, but it's probably still going on in that way. As for the Mothman prophecies, I haven't read up. There's a guy named John Keel who wrote it. It's about some incredible experiences. I'm trying to remember the tale. It's a tale back east, Virginia, what's Virginia, somewhere like that, that was basically inundated with U.F.O. sightings,

1:26:14with strange aerial phenomenon, with people reporting seeing humanoid type figures with wings flying around. As I said, I have not read it. It's certainly as well known in U.F.O. circles, but that's about it all I know about it. How's that, Thomas? All right, thank you. I'm with both of those atoms. What's the hype about all that? That's nice. Thank you. Good evening. Out of state, you're on the air from Jackie Gondz, Plas O'Holotel, George Napp, or are you calling from please? I'm calling from Riverside, California. Good evening, Mr. Bill, and Mr. Napp. To say thank you for having a show like this, I think more information should be brought out to the general public. I have a question for Mr. Napp. In all my readings, instead of that I've done on the subject, I probably started on the Betty and Bernie Hill situation or another production, but back in the 1950s, and worked my way recently to about 25, 30 books in the last two years. However, the question is getting back to the human spirit and

1:27:18the soul. What I've gathered is that they've asked a lot of a bet piece that one of the things they admire about the human races are individuality. Could you come in on that, Mr. Napp? All right, yes, it's a good question. George, do these aliens have some sort of collective mentality? It seems like it can let's been described by the various witnesses. It's almost like a high mentality. I'm not sure that at the alien, what we perceive to be aliens, what's most commonly reported in America, it says the aliens are the real aliens. It's the dog guys big headed graves that are reported most often. Almost in a lot of ways seem to be androids or some kind of theme that are directed by other intelligence, often humanoid type intelligence that looks just like that. Perhaps a race of androids type creatures left in the area to keep track of or to view

1:28:24the dirty works to go down and collect the samples and how these interactions will be factored because that's not something that these others think. The individuality point is significant and a lot of the stories told by the FBI, obviously we have something to tell. No, while card line 2 is that even you're on the over-jewelk match. I'm calling from Reno. Reno, yes, ma'am. George? Yes. I've been wanting to say to you, so, try to well how much I appreciate your report this week. And we'd really miss them.

1:29:27They want to say, we're in just two. We're going to use a guest on and you don't get a chance to do. Thank you for your contribution. Thank you. You've been quoted on that on the game. Israel and the PLO signed their papers. As I've gated it here in a field. Has any testing of the grain been done on that information? Not for my knowledge. That's my fault for not following it up. I can make a note of that now and try to have some information on this for next week. Oh, that's great. It's been so easily man-made that it would be interesting if it wasn't. Does anyone know a public comprehensive list of UFO related conferences and events? I know we have quite a few of them to just go and then one in April and Los Angeles. Several publications that move on UFO journal keep up with not only the conferences. I always have a monthly list of them as well as pretty serious, incredible research going on in the field.

1:30:29UFO Magazine, published at L.A. Always keep up with that stuff. They're very credible as well. There's a service called the UFO news clipping service that not only written for a lot of conferences but also gives you a news from around the world relating to UFOs and other related topics. Except from newspapers all over the world reported to mainstream press. I'd recommend any of those. Where are they? They're okay. Well, I don't have the addresses here. So how do you tell me how do we arrange to get this lady to the address? Well, we might bring it to the program next week. Great. All right. All right, ma'am. How's your ass? All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. And just make a couple of notes George and we'll try to get that information out next week. All right. Good evening. You're on the air with George Napp and Las Vegas. Hello, there. Hi. Where are you from? Well, I'm from the source from Malachiav to here right this moment. All right.

1:31:30I'd like to talk George if he's aware of the disappearing, sure as he was, the disappearing, bars of the overdraft? Sure. Oh, yes. You were aware of the sudden misoperation of now the photo-crowp for your equipment when he landed on the move. That doesn't ring a bell. All right. But your first question, sir, is a good one. And George, what do you hear? Everything is buzzing with rumors and thoughts and attempts to turn the Mars explorer back on and all the rest of it. What do you hear about that? Is it your judgment that it's a simple malfunction? That's true as it's some sort of cover. If it's a mixed bag, I tried to call Richard Hoagland today because he seems to be tuned into this as much or if not more than anyone. It was unable to get a hold of him to get the latest on that. He has some very high level sources within NASA.

1:32:30And I think I mentioned last week, he is convinced that this thing is going to turn itself back on January or February. That it's still out there that he's in that picture. The other side of the coin, you've got people like a game. The guy who had predicted this big event in New Mexico that we talked about several times. Who has just received an issue of the New Mexico move on these as an incentive interview with James who said that whatever happened up there to the Mars server, what's directly related to the event that he's predicted would happen. That has now been delayed. That the Martians or whoever is living up there, or the actually alive, the JAPID project is going to be an accident. I've had a lot of people like them say, people like us, and of course, if any of us were up, I really don't know, I was just back from dealing personally with NASA. That it is not out of the question that this sabotage could have been on purpose. That's not by NASA itself, but perhaps people within NASA who did not want the Spadonia region photographed, or if it was going to be photographed, didn't want the photographs made public.

1:33:31I know it for a fact. In dealing with them, they want nothing to do with anything that sounds like they are looking for Martians or EPs. That's one of the reasons they changed the name of SETI to Hermi. I know that they are uncooperative with researchers who are looking into the UFO angle. I know that although a lot of them are very much interested in the face on Mars, the Spadonia region, they just don't want to admit it because they don't want to seem like lack of it. Haven't they had their funding cut for SETI? Yeah. SETI is gone. In fact, the news that I hear is that the House and Senate Conference Committee that killed it has given it $1 million in FM2 faces self-out, which is an absolute tragedy. Well, that in the Super Collider, which gets about 600 or $670 or $80 million to do the same thing, fill the whole back up and forget it. Exactly. You know, it's just it's politicians trying to throw the public a bone to show that they're cutting government waste

1:34:34when in essence they're spending so much money on other ridiculous projects that's throwing a little bit of of money to answer the fundamental questions of where we are in the universe, whether or not we're alone. I mean, which even somebody by Carl Fagan would admit is that the most fundamental question of our time in which which with these biggest scientific discovery in human history is the contact wherever it may. It's a small price to pay for such big possible returns and really positive buy. Well, if all this comes to be true and you're still part of it when it comes down George, maybe that'll be worse on the drug addicts. A war. In money, I don't know about that. I just know it was a cancer movie from Holy Hound with this movie. Okay, I'll cut it. Okay, don't want to get even your own ear with George. I'll hire you doing fine. But another great show you've got to get this thing a little longer if you can. You know what I mean? Okay. Okay.

1:35:34Huh? Yeah, we'll do what we can. You know, I was really expressive to the super collider with cancer, I think that's a great crap in the face to any future we have as far as. That was super colliderous cancel. You just heard George talk about the study program going down the drain and I think they're cutting back on the space station bit by bit. There's got to be some reason for that, that they're not telling us. I think it's just pinheadedness. I mean, it's pinheadedness taking to the pinnacle. It's, you know, we are going through tough times. We do have a deficit to deal with. People don't want to pay higher taxes, but this is a problem. If you're talking about the budget, we're talking about the budget. It's so easy for the government to cut 20 million to buzz and you're something, you know. I don't even want to get into that. I think it's important to have fundamental, fine, terrific research going on. That's what I feel. Yeah. We are. Oh man, what's they going to say? I don't know sir. Yeah. Oh, John Lair always says it worth 30 years ahead of where we are.

1:36:38I firmly believe that. I've all listened off the air like George Naps' opinion on that. All right, thank you that we're actually at least 30 years ahead scientifically of where we apparently seem to be George. Oh, as I alluded to earlier in the program, John, John has a lot of opinions which I do not share and I've seen no indication that that is okay. Although you admit that we may possess technology that could have been shared by aliens that we don't know about right. Sure, but I suspect that if we do have that technology that 30 years is far from an accurate figure. Okay. On a wild cut line, too, good evening. You're on the air with George Naps. Beating. George, I was wondering if you ever heard of a book called Matrix 2? Yes. You have. What is, how accurate is it, do you think? Well, yeah, that's just a put together by some people here in Nevada that I had some brief contact with. There's a lot of stuff in there. It's a big book. It's very lengthy, yes.

1:37:39I think it's like a lot of other things in the UFO field that there is. It's a mixture of stuff that can be supported and stuff that's a lot of speculation and it's important for the reader to know the difference between the two. I can't tell you a page for page. What's true and what's not so that I don't know. I have access to all that information. But was there a place called Paradox in Nevada? Not that I know of. Not you know of. And what about the various Assyrian males and Assyrian females and the Orion group? Again, that gets a little far afield from what I know to be supportable. It's just a such a crazy field and people can print what they want and very difficult to prove that it is either accurate or inaccurate. And a lot of folks here in this field make money a lot of them into it for this information first, because there is a lot of them just one attention. Fire beware. Do you think this thing could have a lot of that information in it? I'm not sure I want to give it that label.

1:38:41I know that the guy who puts this stuff out, he's an interesting man who has a extensive military contact. I'll just leave it at that. Okay. All right, thank you, Collar. And good evening. Line 3. Hello there. Kedon, line 3. You're on the air with George Napp. Okay. I have a little quote here for you. There is no proof. There are no authorities. Whatever. No president, academy, court of law, congressor, senate on this earth has the power of the knowledge to decide what will be the knowledge of tomorrow. That was a real homework. You were talking about a case of evidence for extraterrestrial. I think a lot of people have to get an idea of perspective of their place in our universe. By sheer numbers, for example, our galaxy, the Milky Way galaxy, is just a couple hundred thousand light years in diameter.

1:39:43And we're in what they call a local group of galaxies, which is 300 million light years in diameter. Now, outside of this local group of galaxies, which is about 20 galaxies, there's a big void of space. But then you come across these galaxy clusters, which are clusters of the galaxy, like the Virgo cluster. That has a thousand galaxies in it. All right. You're doing a call second to us. Where are you headed here? Well, I'm hearing here is this. And at one time, the people believe that the earth was flat. And there's probably a good case. You probably still prove today that the earth was flat, because actually, you can't actually see the evidence of the world not being flat. Yes, you can. Well, you can, but there's always a counter-argument for the world being more or not one that makes sense. I mean, we have spacecraft that clearly show us the world is not flat. Yeah, that's true. But still, when you think about the perspective and the shape of it is here,

1:40:45and if you put it on a flat screen, it looks loud, but actually that's flat. But I'm just going to give you a good way to mess. I think what happens is that people who lose their perspective of our Earth and the universe are sheer numbers, because all of us are just from, it's not even the focus of the source of the Earth. And the Milky Way Galaxy is on the suburbs of our local group. And our front is in the suburbs of the Milky Way Galaxy. So by sheer numbers, there has to be trillion and trillion, and trillion stars out there. So by sheer numbers alone, the evidence is overwhelming. And do you think that the galactic voice, do you think that there's like an area that you come to towards to like you have all these other galaxy clusters? Do you think there's a finite, you know, in other words,

1:41:46once you step out of the realm of these galaxy clusters and any that there's an end to like the universe? No, I thank you. I have a long trip to get there. In other words, George, is there an end to it all? Something like a question my son has. Oh yeah, and I'm sure you were, we used to get that question as I am. I had no idea. I guess. But what is this way is, that it's off, that we show you here the most of you of our circle. There's so many planets so many galaxies that can be light, which we call. When do we change our angle to see the Universe? If we see the planet Tywin, Mozart! If we 뭔edom drone Ok, next thing I'm going to try to move out to the dyno pickles itself. We're going to switch up the thug. Thug is on it. Sure.

1:43:04So I can keep on coming where I'm nowhere any time or no time. So to get there merely extra craft real I think is missing the larger picture which I hope and believe is going to come up. So I hope to be far more wondrous than we could imagine at this point. Excellent. Boy you've been a good guest George. Good evening Wal-Krondlein II you're on the air with George NAP. So hard and George. Where are you pulling from? I'm right here in Las Vegas. Alright go ahead. And George I don't know if you still live here I know you didn't the past and I have a number of questions but I'll limit it to one this week. George if you've been on I think it's Highway 93 on the way towards search flights from Vegas and they've got this. I believe it's called an ELF extremely low frequency transmitter that a bandtown system that communicates with submarines.

1:44:11Right. Yeah. Okay. My question concerns is you have both sightings, light and always seems to be the common denominator of course. For the Internet to sight something you've got to have light. Have you ever investigated or heard anything about why that ELF station you've probably seen it when it was strobing at night over like a mile long? Why those strobes were there on that system that's really designed to communicate with submarines underwater, you know, thousands of miles away? That's really my question. What's the light factor? Why does it strobe thing? Alright alright thank you. I know something about the ELF transmitter George but I didn't know anything about a light frequency source. I've seen them out there and I've seen something similar up to Area 51. I've got three or four videos that people have captured of something weird like a strobe effect, flipping around some of them or light and I'm not going to read.

1:45:12I don't know the connection. I have had the same thoughts. You know the basic question I have is why that's the facility that's out there in the first place is this strange place to have something that's, you know, keeping in contact with submarines that the middle of the desert. If you have some information on that I'd like to hear it out. No there's, I know that the main ELF transmitter I think is up in the upper Midwest somewhere isn't it? That's unknown to me. Okay yes it is. It's miles and miles of underground transmission line. Line three you're going to be about our last caller this evening. Good evening you're on the air with George and App. Good evening. Yes sir, good evening. I'm glad you're there. I tuned in a little late and I heard George talking about when he was back in the Midwest and he wanted to get his bearings straight on what the local opinion might be, you know, regarding the religion and everything. And I'm not here to preach or anything else but I would just think it would be mighty dangerous thing to have a world without religion. Indeed. There's something to think about. All right thank you.

1:46:12I guess it would be wouldn't it? I can't argue with that and I don't think anything that we're talking about is inconsistent with religion. I think a lot of what's the aliens or these visitors have communicated to App.P's and others that have communicated with. Is that they, their own religious beliefs are not all that consistent with them. All right George we're out of time. We're out of time. We're out of time. I have no choice. I wish we could go on for hours but we can't. You've been a wonderful guest. I'm going to have you back as a guest. I'm here. All right. All right. George thank you. George and App our guests that's it area two thousands over because there's no more time. Remember if you have something that you want investigated. You have comments on the show. You're welcome to make them to the big little foundation. Angela Thompson is your contact Angela Thompson area code 702 456 1606 back next Sunday at about same time. Good morning everybody. Make that good evening. Take care. See you next week.

1:47:12The preceding program was made possible by a dream from the big low foundation. This has been area 2000 a program that introduces our listeners to design his approach for discussion of two particular subjects. UFOs and near death and after death experience. The content of the big low foundation. The next day. There is a lot of time. We're going to have to end of the time. That area code 702 456 1606. And he will this next Sunday evening at eight. For another edition of area 2000.