N.F.C. - Suburban Bowhunting & Population Control

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1:28Interstate Batteries is a mission driven company fueled by purpose and guided by their values. With the American Express Platinum Card, you can access over $3,500 in annual value with benefits and eligible purchases across travel entertainment and more. There's nothing like Platinum. Learn more at American Express.com slash Explore- Platinum, enrollment requirements, monthly and other limits in terms of supply. At Verbo, we understand that even the best of plans sometimes need a little support. So we plan for the plot twists. Every booking is automatically backed by our Verbo Care Guarantee, giving you confidence from the very start. Whenever you need help, it's ready. Before you're stay through the moments in between and after your trip. Because a great trip starts with peace of mind. And maybe a good playlist. But we've got the peace of mind part covered. All right, everybody. This is the Nine Finger Chronicles podcast. I'm your host, Dan Johnson. And today we have returning guest, Mike Ward from South Eastern Pennsylvania. Mike, what's up, dude?

2:28How you doing, man? Can't complain. Very well. So good start for the season. Good deal. Good deal. One of the last times I had you on, I jet you and your organization that you help run about getting access to hunters. In like suburban and urban areas, that's the gist of it, right? Like that's the organization that you run. Yeah, so we run a population control group for local townships over here. And we do it by archery only, follow them all the state game rules and regs. And it's been a great way to partner with the townships and reduce the deer population in our area. Right. And so we did a, what's the name of that organization, by the way? It's called Thoma. Is it an organization that I'm with? Okay. So first thing I want all the listeners to do is I want you to go back after you listen to this episode.

3:30Go back and listen to the first time Mike was on with his partner. And they had a really good conversation about what they do, how they do it, how many deer you guys take in a year. And I posted a clip and it was like, I don't even know how long it's been since, since you guys were on, but I posted a clip of that and posted on Facebook, posted on social media. And it went viral, right? 400,000 people in like tens of thousands of comments about how many deer you guys take in a given year. How much, how many organizations or how many deer your organization takes in a given year. And it blew the internet's mind. They couldn't handle that, right? And so I believe the magic number was 300 on that particular clip. Is that organization? Are you guys still like shooting that many deer every year? Yeah, we definitely take a lot each year. I don't know if it's in the 300s, but we definitely, we get into the hundreds.

4:40So maybe that year was just a better year or I think what gained traction on that was the, it was the amount of kind of deer per acreage that I took off. So because I don't know if we ever really hit 300, but we might take 15 to 20 deer off of 10 acres. So I think that's where everybody started losing their minds. Yeah, and that is grossly overpopulated deer herd, right? Absolutely. Yeah, so the fact that you guys are at this consistent level of take every single year. And it seems like the deer herd just rebounds and re continues to rebound and continues to rebound to where you guys are consistently killing 100 or more deer throughout the course of a archery season in Southeast Pennsylvania.

5:41What is it about that area where the deer just continue to reproduce and they're continuously overpopulated? I mean, it's the deer density down here. I think it's last, last time I saw a survey it was a couple years ago, but I think it came out to like 160 deer per square mile. And it just doesn't, it never goes down. I mean, they literally just outgird the environment and you can't keep up on them. You know, I mean, there's plenty of farm fields down here, there's plenty of corn and soybeans and mass crop down here, but not like you have in the Midwest. I think it's more of the fact that you're just in an environment. We keep building everything. You have apartment complexes going up left and right. I mean, we're kind of taken from from their environment and you know, push in our population and you have these smaller pockets where you just have a lot of deer and deer are going to stop running.

6:46They're, you know, they're just going to do their thing. So, you know, our, our, you know, gross weight of, of deer is, is down a little bit compared to the Midwest. I mean, if you get a really nice sized doe here, you'll break a hundred pounds. I mean, I know out west you're way over that for, for a mature doe. So, you know, you can have this starvation of the plenty too. Yeah. But what is it? What's strange to me is in an environment like that where there's urban expansion, right? And the, the deer herd doesn't seem to be affected by it. Right? Like apartment complexes go up, but the deer numbers don't go down. That blows my mind. Why do you think that is? I mean, I just think it's, you don't have the amount of hunters that that we have anymore either. You know, I, you know, it's hard to say. I mean, there's not a lot of people in our sport anymore that are getting into it.

7:47But and the deer just seem to do okay in these, these smaller parcels once they get pushed out. So, I guess I don't have an end all be all answer for you. Yeah. But, you know, they're just not manage, you know, how they, you know, by hunting that much. I mean, some of these townships, they bring, they pay a lot of money and bring sharpshooters in. And, you know, they'll set up a back, a backdrop and, you know, they'll, they'll do like a corn thing and they'll do the sharpshooting at mic down here and take out like a hundred. And, you know, in a couple of nights, no problem. And, and the deer hurts just the same the next year. So, it's just trying to just keep it status quo is even the struggle. Where are the deer living? Are they just chilling in people's backyards and are they like small, small pockets of timber where it's just stacked in the, in the night or like in the daytime.

8:47They're all betting. There's like 20 deer and someone's backyard easily. Yeah. Okay. Easily. So, where are backyards? There's been times where they're just in the landscaping that next to the house. But, they're just literally feet from the house. You know, they're, they'll stack in, you know, little thickets where they can and everything. But, you know, and that there's plenty of woods. I mean, there's, we definitely have, you know, our, our ag fields and stuff. So, you know, there's pockets, but, you know, once they come off those ag fields, I mean, they're going through the backyards. I mean, you can almost wash the motion detect there's that night all the time, you know, set the deer off where I live. I live in a developed neighborhood. And I have a big oak tree out front. And, you know, every night they're just out front of my house and they have to walk down the street. So, you know, you, you see them everywhere. So, this is my mind. They're everywhere.

9:49It's crazy because out west you'll see these giant elk in Estus Park, Colorado, or you'll see out somewhere in Utah, or, or in Salt Lake City, or something like that. You see like a giant mule deer just sitting in somebody's front yard or in between their house. And it's crazy, right? So, but yet it seems like there's still big bucks in that area as well. Like you're shooting as many deer as possible, but yet there's, it always seems that there's big antler bucks. And you guys don't pass deer, do you? No. No, you shoot everything. Yeah, I mean, if, yeah, if it's, I mean, listen, I have private properties in this area where I hunt and I definitely pass deer. But, you know, as far as my group, no, we, you know, it's, it's, it's deer management. So it's just deer management 101. So, you know, we have the tags for it and, you know, we take them.

10:51So, what, what happens if your organization doesn't do its thing or they don't hire sharpshooters? What, what does the deer population or the deer herd do? I mean, it would just, it would just multiply and spiral out of control. I mean, they're not going to stop, you know, reproducing, but then it's just not going to be good for the deer herd either because then you're, you're not going to have a real healthy herd. You know, I had one lady, the one night, and you know, she was, she didn't like hunting, she stopped me. And, you know, she started questioning me on like, you know, I don't, I don't like this. I don't support it. And, you know, I was able to spend a couple minutes with her and actually explain to her, you know, what happens if there are too many deer, you know, and then what happens to the undergrowth and that, you know, goes with the rabbits and the squirrels and, you know, and then, you know, these deer starve. And, you know, there's, there's not enough food to really sustain a healthy herd. And, you know, after that, she was like, oh, you know what, I never realized any of that.

11:55You know, thanks for educating me and, and, and that was that. Like she was, yeah, receptive to the information, which was, which was nice. But, yeah, it would just, it would just spiral way out of control. Yeah, man, deer would be starving themselves, like too many mouths to feed, not enough. I was out, actually out west Philadelphia one time driving through a couple neighborhoods that had a, uh, over by Valley Forge Park, national park. You could see the browse line where the deer, where the deer were at. I mean, you could see everything through there. They ate everything from, like, six foot and down was gone. Right. And you could see that browse line. And so when that goes away, then what are they eating? Like are actually quick questions are there? Yeah. Are there a lot of people feeding deer? 100%. I mean, you have a lot of, a lot of people who are against hunting that, that feed deer.

12:55You know, you have people, you know, putting supplements out, you know, the salt lakes or bags of corn, you know, all times a year. You know, there's, it's, it's not common to see deer, bet it under bird feeders. You know, they'll, they'll just go and that, you know, they, the, how to bird feeders all the time. I mean, it's, it's, it's wild. Some of these neighborhoods, they're just in the middle of the day, they're just bet it right there. You know, just, you know, just, not a bird feeders. So, yeah. Yeah. Um, they're just, they're literally going for anything and everything. And, you know, I mean, like, you know, you can talk about, obviously, they're going to prefer your white oaks, but they don't care. They'll go up and devour all the pin oaks too. Um, yeah. What, whatever is, is given to them, they're, they're on it. And they're on it until it's gone. Yeah. Has there ever been a disease outbreak that you're aware of in that area? Where deer just get down. Okay. Um, you know, I know Jersey was, New Jersey was fighting some battles. Um, maybe a couple years ago, or maybe just last year.

14:06Um, you know, they, they had an outbreak and, you know, it took a lot of the deer out. Um, but even then over there, the regulations are still the same. I mean, you basically, and a lot of these zones have unlimited toes over there. I've, I've a couple properties I hunt. Um, over there privately. And it's, it like it, it didn't even almost seem to affect anything. I know it changed some things for a while. You know, some guys are going to disagree with me. You know, on that, but, um, you know, the deer hurts. The bouncing back fine. Man, that's, it's crazy. I, I cannot imagine my neighborhood right now with deer all over it. I just can't, I can't imagine it. Uh, and, but for some reason, they're thriving is a lot of that because it's only a certain amount of people that let you hunt in their yard. And, oh, yeah, control. Yeah. So there's limitations there as well. Uh, yeah. I mean, if you, if you get a piece with 10 acres, you're looking pretty good.

15:07Like, I think you're like, oh, I got 10 acres. Like you can do something there. Um, yeah. You know, the smallest piece I ever hunt was, I think, two acres. Um, you know, we have some pieces where, yeah, it's like more private property we have. Um, you know, it's like 50 or, I think it's 50 or 60 acres. So I mean, we do have some acreage around, but it, but it's all so tight and so small. Um, yeah. Yeah. You know, that, that's all you get. And then you got to get to know the neighbors because, you know, if, if you get a deer, it goes down on their property, you know, somehow get recovery rights or just, you know, you got to really spill it out around here. It's a very touching go. Man, it's crazy. Just cry. Just bloat. It just literally, I'm trying to think of all the scenarios that you have to deal with. And it just, it's crazy. Man blows my mind. But, uh, so you guys are doing, you guys are doing good work out of there. You guys keep me, uh, and you take it to like food pantries as well.

16:07You're to a butcher that participates in a program. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's so the hunters sharing the harvest or hunter's feeding the hungry. I forget exactly the correct version on that. There are our local processors, you know, it's a statewide program and our local processors link up with the state. And then, you know, we can, we can donate the deer. Right. You know, so, so Friday night, I was, I actually shot three does and, you know, donated, you know, those, those all got donated. So, and it all goes to local food banks once it gets butchered up. So, yeah. Yeah. It helps. It definitely helps for the community. What is the most deer you shot in a single year? All right. All you white tail nut jobs. It's hunting season. And that means football is finally back. College kickoff is here. NFL is right around the corner. And my bookie is where I'm placing my action this season. Whether you're in between hunts or just checking lines from the tree stand, my bookie makes it stupid simple to lock in your place.

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18:18Deposit $10 and get $50 to trade instantly. 18 plus C polymarket's terms of service for more information about restrictions and eligibility. The polymarket app is an independent affiliate of polymarket US and not CFTC regulated. Trading always involves risk. Complete loss can occur. The $50 offer is issued as non-metronical trading credit for use on the platform. I'm definitely open the 20s. 20s. Yeah. Like thank God we have a partnership with last, right? Because broad heads would get pretty damn expensive if you're spending twig. That's how I found them. You know, I was at that outdoor show. And I actually had a pack of our broad heads and I was like, all right, I'm like these, you know, these are great. They were they were always price great. And then, you know, I ran into I stopped at their table and spoke to Fred over there and I was like, listen, this is what I'm doing. I'm running through broad heads and you know, he's like, all right. So like that's he's like, let's talk a little bit and then, you know, end up with a really good partnership with them.

19:25And you know, I got nothing, nothing but good things to say about them. So, yeah, absolutely. I love, I love wasp. I love Fred and the whole crew over there. Do you hold the record for most kills in a year or does somebody else hold that? You know, I don't I don't know because we don't like we know what we keep track for in our program, but I hunt a lot of program property. I hunt a lot of private property is what all so my my buddies and I keep track. Actually, my one friend Austin right now him and I, you know, he he shot. I think he shot three deer like almost right off the bat and I had one. So then, you know, I went out Friday night. So I just text him. I'm like three to two. And then like 15 minutes later, I'm like three three. And then like 30 minutes later, I'm like four three and he's like, I'm not proof. You know, so I said. So, you know, so I'm sending photos. So him and I like will come in. You know, we have like healthy competitions, but I you know, I don't think anybody ever really kept score.

20:35Yeah. You know, but I you know, like I think my best year was 23 if I remember. But and that was a combination of, you know, properties in New Jersey properties for my program and private properties I have to. So, you know, so it wasn't just the program. But we have we have people. I was on a property last night. Ladies like, hey, she's like, I have, you know, deer coming through here every night. You know, I just I need some taking out. You know, is one of my friends that, you know, did some work for her. So, you know, that wasn't part of our, you know, program. But, you know, certainly go hunt. Yeah. You know, you only ended up seeing, you know, a bunch of bucks actually, but, you know, nothing, nothing worthy to shoot. There and, you know, no dose came through. So, and we only get one book tagged a year here in PA. So in that then him and I opening day actually filled both our book tags. So, you know, we, nothing to do about box right now.

21:43Yeah. Yeah. So, your program isn't just limitless and anything. You still half the dough tags are limitless, but the butt tags you still have to abide by the one year. Yeah, the book tags abide by one a year. And then in our program, we follow all the PA game commission laws. So, we have to actually go and buy our dough tags. And it does get to a point where in this area, it does eventually sell out. So, you know, you can, I believe that you're allowed 15 dough tags max, but as you use one, if there's more available, you can replace it. So, you know, if you shoot one, you can get one as long as you can still buy them, but, you know, I mean, it's 15 tags is a lot of tags. So, yeah, it becomes, it becomes a full time job. I'm trying to envision dragging out 23 deer in a single season. I feel like it would go, it would go from fun to work at that point.

22:51Sometimes, yeah, it can be, but I just love being outside. I love every aspect of it. You know, you get extremely good at gutting an animal. I mean, I'm probably down to like a minute. So, it's just like, you know, even even Friday night, so Steve who did this podcast with me before, you know, he was only 70 yards from me and I had three down. And, and, you know, the way we were on the way we were set up, my heart wasn't going to affect his and he had his eyes on a pretty nice buck. And I was, he's like, well, we can get down if you want. I'm like, no, you sit tight. Like I might dear, ran, you know, they one ran 30 yards and one way and one ran 30 yards the other and the other one ran 30 yards the other. And one of them ran towards Steve. So, you know, I got down and I was like zip zip zip zip, you know, got him and then start dragging them all up. I got him all mind up and everything. So by the time he was done his hunt.

23:51You know, I was like, all right, I'm like, just back your truck up and you're taking them to the processor to donate. So, you know, you get very efficient very quickly. Yeah. So, this is, you shoot three deer in a, in a property, right? That's three gut piles that you got to find something to do with. Do you, are you responsible for taking the gut piles out or do you just tuck them back somewhere? Yeah. So, for properties that are part of the program, we do have our guys, you know, myself, we do remove the gut piles for our private properties. It really depends on the property and it depends on the homeowner. You know, some owners want it, want it removed, which, which you have to respect. Because if you're on five acres, you're on five acres. I mean, you know, the foxes and stuff. I mean, our fox population down here is crazy too. You know, and turkey vulture is that they could, they could dismantle gut pile extremely quickly, even overnight. Usually the next day, it's not there. But, you know, just to be respectful and courteous of everybody for our program, we will remove the gut piles.

24:58So, I would, I'd hate to be a property owner and be like, hey, yeah, you can come shoot the deer and then not knowing and then going out to mo your yard and there's three gut piles that have just been pulled apart by coyotes and fox all over the back of your, your backyard. Now, I mean, if we do, if they are left, I mean, it's definitely in parts of the property where, you know, the homeowners are going to, I mean, I mean, I, I had fun in in yards, front yards, backyards. You know, I, one guy is like, listen, climb this tree right here in my front yard. When I turn my lawnmower off, the deer are going to come out of the neighborhood. And I'm like, okay. And, you know, I mean, he's a homeowner. He's there all the time. He knows a pattern. And, and sure enough, he went around back, turned his lawnmower off and these deer started to walk him right to his house right through his front yard. And, you know, that, that night, I shot four of them that way. You know, they would scatter and then he would turn his lawnmower on, turn it off again. They come back. It was just that where that's where I was.

25:59It's conditioning. Oh, yeah. Oh, they are. They're conditioned. And I'll tell you what, like I call them urban funnels all the time because you got to know where the houses are. You got to know where people are. You almost have to pattern the people like, okay, when they come home from work, they're going to bump the deer in their yard. Or when they let their dog out, the dogs going to bump them. When they come out the cut their lawn, they're going to bump them. Like, you can almost know where the deer are, but as far as like, you know, urban funnels or houses and just urban patterns through, through deer and humans. It's it's kind of how many how many deer do you shoot from the ground every year? We're just walking into a place. So on private property, we can usually get a couple of year. We're part of our program. We're all elevated. So we do not let anybody shoot from the ground just because it's safety. You know, and we're all of our properties like that. It's I mean, safety is our number one concern because of all the tight everything is.

27:02But I've gotten a couple, you know, from the ground or a lot of times you had just have to go into these areas and bump the deer out. Set up and usually within an hour they will return. So Friday, for an example, was Steve, Steve went down the one side of the house. I was walking down the other side of the house because we were going to split our spots. And he bumped dear to me. They were running full force right into me. Like, they're going to trip me. I was going to trip over them the way they were coming. And they ran past me and then there was another one, a third one behind them. And it was like, oh God. And I was trying to get an arrow out to knock an arrow. And by that time, I mean, she just took off, which is fine. But you know, the crazy thing is, then I, you know, climb up the tree and after an hour, you know, some of the deer started coming back through.

28:05I actually shot shot that first one. Like I said, that ran 30 yards of drops. So then, you know, a half an hour later, what it was, another one started coming through. So I was like, great. But then a fox started coming through and I watched the fox hit my, you know, descent, the blood trail, follow it to the deer. So now I'm looking to my right. I'm watching the fox start to try to rip apart the deer. And I'm looking to my left. I'm waiting for this other dough to turn brawler side so I can shoot her. So then she finally turns brawler side. I shoot her. I climb down real quick. I run over and get the fox off the first deer, dragged that deer back to my climber. So meanwhile, as I'm doing this, I saw my other deer dead. So I was like, all right, I'm not going to go over there just yet. And you know, I was walking back that way and more deer were coming in. I was like, oh God. So my mother buddy has a ladder stand like 15 yards from where where I was hunting the other night. So I was like, so I ran up his ladder stand real quick, waited about 10 minutes.

29:08The other group came in that I saw and I shot one of them. And then I was like, okay, I'm like, I have, you know, three hours and they're all deployed. So yeah. So it was just like wild like it's like I ran back up a tree like I prefer being out on my climber and everything his ladder stand is 20 feet off the ground, which is fine, but it has like the tiny foot platform. And I'm like, there's no like there's no side rails to it. So like you're just sitting. Like it's like I called out the death trap stand, but man is is where it needs to be. So, but it's something unique happens every probably with people probably with you, you maybe some, I don't know why this popped in my head, but you're in your tree stand, you're watching the deer, you can obviously see different houses. Some buddy, some dude steps out his back porch to take a piss and he doesn't know you're there. And you're like, oh, like I don't want to see this.

30:10You see a little bit of that. And my buddy, Todd, he the one time I guess the one house we were at, they had had contractors there working there, whatever. So, you know, I guess when the contract needs to use a bathroom, they didn't want to use their bathroom. So, you know, they just the couple times, he was like, yeah, the whistle at him be like, hey, listen, don't don't do that here. Like I'm right here. You know, it's like, yeah, yes, it's amazing. That's fun. That's fun. Yeah. So, like, hey, you know, I'm standing right here. I mean, the other day I had a lady just come walking through this is a private property. There's a farm next door and a horse farm. And, you know, she just came walking through with her horse and, you know, she's talking to the horse the whole time. And, you know, I'm sitting there. They were at they came to six yards, you know, the horse, you know, poops. And then she's like, oh, she's like such a big poo poo like, oh, good job, horse. And I'm like, and I'm sitting there. I was like, if she only would look up right now. And I didn't want to, you know, like, and I didn't want to like make a noise and mood because I didn't want to scare the horse and have the horse run off or hurt her or whatever.

31:28But, oh, my God, I was like, it's just some of this stuff that just naturally happens, happens. Yeah. That's funny. That's crazy. Yeah. I bet you have to. You got to manage people and deer. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. All right. Before I forget, I do have to do a shout out to the companies of the nine that help support the nine finger chronicles podcast. Obviously, we talked about wasp. If you're looking for a badass broadhead that guys like us trust, go to check out wasparchery.com discount code NFC to zero. Next on the list is Ozonics. I'm a huge fan of the ozone generators that that Ozonics manufacturers. These guys are doing great things. They're units kick out. So, you know, I'm a huge fan of their functionality in the woods downstream of your scent cone and outside of the woods, cleaning your clothes. So go check out Ozonics hunting.com.

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33:39Talk to me a little bit about some of this private land. Like we got a late start today. So we got a shutter down here pretty soon. But you found success on some some land that wasn't part of the program. Correct. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's just it's just any of these smaller properties, you know, ranging from five to 10 20 acres, private properties, but still within southeast, Pennsylvania, it's still grossly overpopulated with deer. You know, a lot of these homeowners are the same thing. I mean, they're they just want the deer taken out. You know, they a lot of times that, you know, they spent thousands of dollars on landscaping and then overnight, it's gone. Yeah. Yeah. So let me ask you this. Is there any similarities to what you're doing hunting in these urban smaller partial acreage type of environments than like what? The person who the people who really made this popular was this guy's from seek one, right? Hunting city box hunting urban box things like that. Is that similar to what you guys are doing?

34:49Yeah. We're basically it's yeah, it's basically the same stuff. You know, it's it's all kind of within city limits and. You know, there's I mean, I know those guys generally get on some real real big box. I mean, some of their content, I like more is their dough days because that's that's basically what we're doing. You know, we don't really get on a buck and stay on a buck, but you know, we're there. It's just, you know, there's those there you're shooting the doors. If a buck comes through a buck comes through. Yeah. You know, but we're not really seeking out something specific. So and but that's why I've always enjoyed their dough day episodes because I'm like, I just want to watch stuff get shot. So yeah. But yeah, now it's it's very similar situations. Are you still using the same tactics as you would let's say in a farm country type buck as well? I mean, are you running trail cameras? You're you're looking for deer movement. I mean, obviously have a butt tag.

35:49You kill enough doves throughout the course of the year. You probably are holding out for we're looking for a top tier buck in that area. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, we we all have I think everybody has trail cameras now. You know, I have them on a couple properties, but you know, they don't ever to me tell the true picture of what's going on there. You know, this property where, you know, I shot that 10 pointer opening day, my buddy shot an 11 pointer. We didn't even have trail cams in there. We didn't even know those bucks were in there. We just went in there to shoot deer. You know, and then I do run some trail cameras, but that's it's very limited. Yeah, chances are if you know of a buck, everybody around you knows of that buck too. So, you know, there is the hunting pressure around here is incredible. And you know, it's just there's a lot of pressure. So, a lot of pressure, but a lot of deer. Yes, but you don't have I mean, yes, a lot of deer, but not a lot of extremely high caliber bucks.

36:57They're in here. Don't get me wrong. And if you're patient enough and and you hunt right and you do the things correctly, you'll be rewarded. But, you know, there's a lot of small young bucks down here. And then just the genetics are the genetics are there, but the nutrition isn't there for for some of the growth to really continue it. Yeah, yeah, I feel that. And so on these on these smaller parcel pieces, it's how much decision making goes into this? Do you just show up and hunt or do you still think about the wind and access and all of the all of the the chest pieces on the board into making a stand location decision? 100% wind is paramount in my book. I will not hunt a bad wind. You know, I mean, you just got to have an idea of, you know, where where the deer are coming from. You still have to pattern on, you know, if it's a small parcel or a big parcel every day, I'm looking at a number of properties I could go to and I'm checking the wind.

38:00And if I don't have the right wind, I don't hunt because the deer are still going to, you know, there's survival instincts are still the same. You know, if you're if they're downwind of you, you're you're getting blown at, you know, you're not you're not going to be that successful with it in my opinion. I've I've always wanted to win and I've you know knock on wood. I've always been very successful when hunting the wind. And I don't do much, you know, we're allowed to bait here. I don't do any baiting, you know, I just I just rely on on wind and deer patterns and and mask crop a lot of times this early season that, you know, I'll you know, rely on the corns and, you know, I think, you know, and but then no one like the feeder tree versus any of tree with a corns. And then as far as going into these properties, yeah, I mean, sometimes you'll just sit back and do a surveillance sit just just to start patterning them and then the next sit going to rule of all, you know, make sure, make sure you have the right wind.

39:00I was out of property last night. I said to to my buddy, I'm like, well, I guess we'll just sit back and see where they are and where they're coming from. And, you know, we, you know, I went there on what we would think is the best win looking at the top of maps and all that. So yeah, those decisions still carry through small or large, you know, you might be able to get away with some scent because the deer are used to it from a house, you know, or sometimes I smoke people's laundry when they're doing their laundry. So, you know, like the dryer scent. So it's like, right. You know, you can probably get away with a little more, but, but yeah, all those tactics apply. Yeah, talk to me a little bit about this bucky shot because that, I mean, I just looked at the picture of it. It looks like a stud stud 10 pointer walk us through where this buck was living. What went down? Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, it was, it was open in day for us here in southeastern Pennsylvania. And like I said earlier, my buddy and I were just going to this property is eight acre property.

40:05And, you know, just to do some, some deer management, homeowner, all summer is like there's way too many deer here. You know, they've they out grew their environment is what he tells us. And we're like, yeah, let's no problem. We'll go there. So, you know, right at I think legal light was 16 for us that morning. And I was getting set up in the dark. Like I like to have, you know, 20, 30 minutes in the dark, you know, before legal light to let things settle because you do bump deer around. And, you know, probably at that six o'clock time, I know I had some deer walking around and just can see any. And then, you know, around six 30, I saw a really nice buck that was 30 yards away. And he was feeding in from, you know, what would be probably a betting area for them. You know, but it was it was pretty thick. So, you know, I was looking at him and I was like, oh, he's a really nice buck, but he was just in a bunch of brush and and thick it and he was feeding on eight corns that were falling into it.

41:13So there was no ethical shot, nothing possible. So he walks down past me and I was like, all right, there's nothing I can do about that. And, you know, my, my buddy was 60 yards away from me on the other side. But I know sometimes that the deer go down that way, they'll funnel back up past him because there's like a kind of a ravine down there. And because we're on top of a ridge. So, so then guys probably 25 minutes later, it was around 7 a.m. I see this buck come walking back up. And I was like, oh, I'm like, all right, I guess something bumped on or something turned them around. So, you know, I'm looking at him and I was like, I don't know if that's the same buck, but I didn't really get a good look at him at 630 because it was still low light. And I'm at any Fed, you know, he's feeding around me for a while and he, he eventually gave me a 40 yard shot, which is something I generally don't take.

42:14You know, a lot of our shots, we can do 20 yards and in. But the way where he was feeding and where he was staying, I knew he wasn't coming any closer. You know, so, so I shot him and then, you know, I was just all, you know, all excited having all the, you know, the fields. And then, you know, I'm sitting there trying to calm myself down and behind me, I swear to God, it sounded like a train wreck behind me crash. I did a big tree just fall or whatever and then I looked down at my buddy's text and he's like, dude, he's like, he's like, I just shot, he's like, I just shot a nice one. I was like, oh my God. So, startled me. And then I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, well, I just shot in nice one. I'm like, wait, there had to be two nice ones in here. So, you know, and, and you know, we gave it a, you know, the time, but obviously we knew his dead, you know, mine, I watched it, it run off about 50 yards and then take that sidestep and then stand there and do the thing. And then like, you know, I'll sometimes we'll do like a quick jolt.

43:15You know, and then you, you know, he, like, did a jolt to the right and, you know, he went down. I just didn't, I couldn't see it. But, you know, he was down, right there. So, so, so we get down. It was just like, we didn't know, I didn't know how big of a block. He shot in a big of a block. I shot. So it was, you know, it was exciting to see that. And, yeah, it was an alignment pointer and mine was a 10 pointer. So there was, there was two nice ones in there. And then the kicker of it all is still another nice big eight pointer in there. So, we had no clue, no clue. So, you know, we were riding that high for a while there and you were still are so. With verbal care, help is always ready before, during and after your stay. We've planned for the plot twists. So support is always available because a great trip starts with peace of mind. Congratulations. Congratulations, dude. Sounds like a fun time. Is that common this time of year in that type of environment to find pockets of bucks that maybe have gone unhunted in like I just, I, I know deer sneak through, right?

44:32I mean, it's a book that you shot. I'm guessing just by the looks of him. He's 145 inch. What was you say three year old or is he four? I mean, I, I, you're, yeah, you're probably right about there as far as like the age. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would not say he's, you know, he's not your five six seven year old deer that you guys are shooting out out west. They're younger. They, they are definitely younger. So I'm saying it's a little older, but yeah, what I'm getting at is like you're hunting small parcels, right? How many acres was this piece eight eight acres had two bucks for sure on it. I'm sure did you see other dose that night as well. Yeah, there was plenty of those. Like I said, there was another eight pointer in there. There was a number of, you know, spikes and why bucks in there. I mean, they were just, they were just, they were running all over in there. And I, and I know it's pressure because, you know, I know the neighbors hunt. So there's definitely pressure in there. But they just, there's something historically this property is pretty good for bucks. But, you know, I mean, like you said, I mean, they're still in their bachelor groups.

45:50It's still in their bachelor groups this time of year too. So, you know, if you, if you're seeing a couple bucks, you know, there's going to be something decent in there. Yeah. What's, what's November like in these areas? What's the rut is it wild? It is, but it's, it's, it's pretty damn challenging because you just, it's just in all out blitz all the time. I mean, you can't even get them to stop sometimes and they're going, they're all over it. You have more deer dead on the side of roads. November by May then. Yeah. And then probably success in the woods. You probably, you know, more success with your car, rather than November. But it's, yeah, the rut is still the rut. I mean, it's, it's crazy. But, you know, they're, they're coming flying through a property and, and that's that. I mean, there are definitely betting areas. You definitely have the bucks sent checking and stuff like that. But when it's on, it's just, you'll have, you know, like four or five bucks on one dough. You know, and it, and it's just like,

46:50relentless, relentless pursuit. And, and like, you're just like, okay, there's a buck. There's another buck. There's this buck. There's a white buck. There's a spike. There's an eight point or six point. You know, it's just like, you know, and you see the dose that are just dog. You know, like they're trying to just, they can't even catch their breath. So what's crazy is I bet you an all day sit where your at would be pretty damn fun. If it's that consistent, you know, throughout the mornings and the afternoons. Is it? Do you sit all day? It's not I, I mean, I don't, I don't have to. You just, I'm going to bump some deer. I'm going to go back and it's just going to kind of resume when I get there. It pretty much. I mean, yeah, I mean, you don't a lot of times and you got to keep in mind we are shooting doses of stuff. So we will at some point get down to care of them. You know, generally at that time of year, you know, we've had a chance to fill our buck tag as well. But you know, I mean, I've done the all day sits and it is entertaining all day. And you know, it's kind of funny. It's like, hey, I just want to take a break from watching deer. You know, go eat and come back and they'll still be here. They generally they can be found again. So

48:00You know, they they do run wild down here. So that's crazy. So no fences. You can't control them. So yeah, for sure. For sure. All right, my friend. Well, great conversation today. Congratulations on a good buck. Congratulations on Basically having a like your success rate is like more than a hundred. It's crazy. It's like you never have to worry about getting scunked. Generally we do see. Yeah, I mean, so I didn't and I got scunked last night, but you know, I saw deer. So it depends on you know, I mean anytime out in the woods to me is a success. But you know, my general rule found my tell guys I'm like, you should probably have shooting in one of three sits. So, you know, you'll be all somewhere in the art or range. As long as you do your homework and you know, you know, where to go and how to how to hunt. You'll definitely get shooting down here. Yeah. Wow. Well, my friend, Mike, I really appreciate you taking time out of your day to hop on and BS and catch up. Good luck. The rest of the season. Hopefully, you guys smoke them.

49:13Your organization smokes him. Hopefully you get what you want and be safe out there. And I appreciate your time. Man. Thanks, Dan. Good luck with you guys too. If you're open or coming right up. So take care. You spend all week digesting injury reports and power rankings. You use your morning to watch personalities debate on talk shows. Now you've convinced yourself everyone else is wrong. It's time to prove how wrong they are on polymarket. Trade your football predictions against other fans and see what the market actually thinks. Then when the game starts, keep trading live as every drive gives you something new to argue about. Eggs that whenever you want or combine multiple trades into one with polymarket combos now live in the app. And once Monday comes, you can start arguing all over again. Download the polymarket app. New customers use promo code rover deposit $10 and get $50 to trade instantly. 18 plus C poly markets terms of service for information about restrictions and eligibility. The polymarket app is an independent affiliate of polymarket US and not CFTC regulated trading always involves risk complete loss can occur.

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