LED Lights are a Danger to Humanity | Jerm Warfare

0:00Oh My name is Jim. This is Jim Wolfe, the battle of ideas. Oh, it's been a few years. Nisa Khan, thank you for joining me again in the trenches. It's my pleasure, Jeremy. Yes, it has been a few years, so looking forward to refreshing the conversation. I've had a number of requests actually, asking to have you back on, because very, very few people discuss the dangers of LED lighting. And it's everywhere. I was recently in China. And it's everywhere. It's everywhere, everywhere, everywhere.

1:07Yes, it is everywhere. China is a place where they are overdoing it. But every other big city, almost the same story. It gets getting extremely difficult to drive. People have given up driving at night. Myself included during the day, because I am sensitive to light activities, which is a very tricky thing, because just about everything in existence is related to a light activity, which is both a spatial concept and a light activity. And a time, transient or temporal concept, and they work together. So the mathematics of it is very difficult, and people just simplify it, but the reality is they work together. And this is the way human beings relate to everything that happens around us.

2:10So whether we can do the mathematics or not, we are humans, and we are experiencing light the way, you know, the natural way, and there's nothing we can do about it. So there are more sensitive people who see these light activities, and there are people who don't, and lucky for them, because those of us who do are going a little bit crazy. So just for those who don't know, you're a physicist and an electrical engineer, founder of IEM, IEM, LED lighting technologies, if I remember correctly. And also you authored a book called Understanding LED Illumination, I think back in 2013, is that right? That is correct. So that, when I wrote the book, there were a few novel things explaining the basic problem of LED lighting. And it was interesting that it did somehow pass the review. Some people objected to it, but I then came up with a very strong rebuttal.

3:15And the book was published by the world's largest scientific and outside of scientific publisher Taylor and Francis. Their scientific arm is called CRC Press, which goes back over 100 years. So it was very nice of the main editor of CRC Press to pick up on what I was saying. So she supported me, and she understood what I was saying. So the book, although it was peer reviewed, complained by a few people because they didn't want something's published. We did get it published. And so the good news is just about 99% of the book is mainstream. So it is a very popular book around the world now used in many, many big universities around the world, including Japan, India, Europe, Europe that includes Germany, France, in the US.

4:23There is about something like 800 universities, Canada, and Australia. So the good news is, you know, many people are benefiting because I speak their peer reviewed language most of the time with, you know, one caveat that basically says that flat light is a problem. And I actually prove it. And then in 2024, I wrote another book. And by 2024, I am now out of mainstream. And that is by choice. And I have decided to not publish anything through this mainstream peer review. So I went and published a book in 2024 on my own through Amazon. It's self publishing. And it's called blinding LED headlights, the biggest blunder of modern science. So in that book, I explained more thoroughly, what is the root problem in math and physics and engineering that people are missing and the outcome is that you people, people don't recognize what they're measuring is really not what's really happening.

5:44And what, as I said before, what humans are experiencing. So in order to bring in the reality of what humans are experiencing, you really need to solve a 3D problem and not a 2D problem. And we discussed that last time because you are a wonderful cartoonist. And of course, our tunes are fun. But at the same time, there are 2D. So, you know, 2D has its uses applications. But at the same time, what we experience is in 3D dimensional reality. And that 3D managed to reality has to use a more comprehensive realistic math and physics. So that's why explain in the book. Yeah. So you said that you can speak in peer-reviewed language. My hope is that you will not do that with me and that you'll speak on on peasant level language. Because this is quite a complicated, it's quite a complicated topic to wrap your head around. But your, your, your core argument is it's unique.

6:50I think everybody kind of knows. We kind of feel that there's something different and something perhaps wrong about LED lights. We can't quite pin it. One of the common arguments is that, well, that's the blue light. We must just remove that. But it's not actually that that you arguing. You're saying that LEDs themselves are flat radiators. They're very, very small flat chips. And the sun or candle light or even an old incandescent light bulb doesn't operate like that. Exactly, exactly. So you are 100% correct in all year saying. And, and I, I find it a little bit of humor in all of this because nature seems to be nature has a sense of humor. So if you, if light comes out of a three dimensional rounded structure, the illumination that it produces happens to be flat.

7:53On the other hand, if light is generated from a flat generator, the illumination it produces in three dimensional space is not flat. It is vibrating bizarre and it is not stable. And that is what's messing up people's minds and eyes and so on. It's the whole experience is bad. So it's really interesting that on one hand, a flat radiator produces a three dimensional bizarre activity of light occurrences in space time. And a spherical source or any source that has a curved exit where light comes out of like an incandescent light is actually a coil. So it is, it is not flat. So in, in the coil, then the light that comes out is is really quite uniform in 3D dimension.

8:56And it's, it's very calm and it, this is where calculus becomes important. I know people dread that word, but calculus basically is just natural mathematics. So natural mathematics kind of shows you that this averaging effect coming out of curved surfaces is a really calm situation in terms of the illumination that it produces. And, and that is why in nature, you will not find a flat radiator. They're all man made. And we need to be careful and this is this is actually ancient knowledge that Archimedes put ships on fire using flat mirrors. So he would take the sunlight collected, concentrated, shoot it at a ship, at a ship far away. And then that concentrated light, then we'll put the ship on fire. You can do the same thing with the magnifying glass actually from the sun. And you can, you can put a piece of paper on fire. It's the same thing. So once you start concentrating.

10:13Electromagnetic radiation or light activity on in a in a small concentrated region, then this is something nature doesn't do. But only man can do that. And it needs to be careful. So obviously in front of me, as you can probably guess, I've got an LED shining on my face because I'm in a dark room. Now, I can't sit here for more than an hour because my eyes start getting sore yet put me in front of a fire. And I can look at that fire for the entire night. Exactly. Exactly. So this is this is nature and nature created us naturally. And we are used to what nature naturally has around us. And if we mess with that, because we think we're smarter than nature or something. And we can go do this because it's more efficient. And we can go make this gadget, that gadget.

11:17By all means, this is why fiber optics makes a lot of sense. If you're going to make something efficient coming out of flat things, keep it contained and keep it far away from our eyes, keep it in the pipe. Let me not see it. But if you let it out, like LED lighting and wireless radiation, you know, wireless radiation is the same thing. It's not visible because there's only a visible region where we see electromagnetic radiation. But if it's in the microwave region or some such thing, you know, that's, again, peer, peer reviewed type of language, but be that as it may. Microwave radiation, we don't see, but there are people who feel it and they get sick. You know that. And that's happening all around the world. You know, it's just like, okay, I don't see it, but I feel horrible and I'm getting sick. It's happening to people around the world. I know a number of people who are suffering.

12:21You know, a lot of podcasts and other things have been, you know, generated based on based on this truth in the last many years. Yeah, so I mean, on a slightly more technical level, because I've been thinking about this ever since you and I spoke last. You explained to me last time that LED lighting because it's, it's, it's little chips that are all put together. The spectrum is different at the intensity is different. And it works at, at very unnatural angles. Is that correct? That is correct. So the concept of angle is actually a three dimensional concept. Now, if you again do cartoon science, it, it looks like, you know, angle is just on a flat sheet of paper. You draw a circle and all angles is over 360 degrees. Well, in 3D, you don't have 360 degrees. You actually have something a concept called solid angle.

13:32And people who know a little bit more sophisticated math know that in solid angle in 3D, they all add up to what we call four pieced radian. Now, let's just say that and not go there. But the idea is that you have a solid cone and it goes all around and it covers all the angles in three dimensional space. Now, within this angle now, if again, electromagnetic radiation or light is generated from a flat surface over this angle, there is a bizarre space, your temporal light activity going on. And that is so unnatural that if your brain picks it up, if your, if your biological system picks it up in any way, you are going to start shaking and feeling very, very sick and unnatural.

14:34It doesn't happen to everybody. That's, that is the other interesting thing in nature that it turns out at this point in time, two thirds of the people in short term are not feeling it. But the long term, you better believe everybody is getting affected. Because long term is what aggregates and it adds up. Which also explains why a fire or a candle like a missile relaxing and an LED light puts you on edge. That is exactly, that is exactly the reason you've, you've summarized it extremely well. So again, nature is not creating these flat radiators at all. It will never do that. When it does that, for example, sometimes it can do that temporarily.

15:36And it is local. Sometimes when you go look at the ripples in a stream and the sun is shining on it, you can see this dazzle on a, an a stream. And that can start to bother some people. So what you need to do is just look away and not focus on it. But it's, it's temporary. And anyway, it's any local flat surface, flat enough, it has to be bigger than just a real tiny, you know, localized. It has to be a little bigger than so sometimes the wave ripples are flat enough and large enough that this dazzle can, can really create an uncomfortable feeling. So yeah, nature does it once in a while, but it is really temporary and you can take care of it by just moving away and whatnot.

16:43But other than that, it is really what the type of light activity, you know, spatial temporal light behavior that nature produces is exactly like the fire, candle and sunlight and so on and so forth. And, and, you know, we are all happy with all of that we have been. So the, the underlying issue here is that LED is 2D and real light would be 3D. And again, I'm with a certain incandescent light bulb because that is a 3D light and an LED light is based on chips. Is there a way to, I don't know, ask the question, is there a way to simulate 3D with 2D or is there a way to evolve 2D into 3D? In other words, can LED ever get close to real light?

17:43The answer is no. And, and the reason has to do with another peer review technical term that... Go for it. It's, it's, it's called the Fourier transform. And of course, Fourier had nothing to do with it. It's just called a Fourier transform. And, and what in essence it does, it, it, it, it relates a local phenomena with a global phenomena. So a light activity, an, an occurrence, spatial temporal, spatial temporal occurrence. Locally, you can take the, the Fourier transform of it and find out globally how it behaves. So if you can do that mathematics and if you understand how that works, which I can, I can teach and I can demonstrate, you know, I can demonstrate not just with arguments, but actually desktop demonstration and, and actual practical demonstration.

19:00Showing that how it works actually then shows that once you generate this flat light behavior, there is nothing you can do to change it. And that, that is something that I have been pushing for a very long time. And I think in, in my first book that I published in 2013, it's also written there that once you generate this thing, you're doomed. So that, that is very natural mathematics and that is the three-dimensional real natural mathematics. And it's important for, for our community around the world to learn it. If, if the technicality is too difficult, it can certainly be taught practically to see how it all works. And I think that that is something that everybody is going to find very interesting of people of all ages are going to say, oh, wow, you know, just just look at how this works.

20:11And, and I think that if we can improve our education system, it would be very, very useful. I'm thinking of like this. If, if somebody is playing a guitar and it's out of tune and they keep playing an out of tune guitar, it will bother me immensely. But not necessarily harm me. What you are arguing is that Eddie D can actually harm you. Yes. So, sound basically is also the same thing as light because it is a special temporal occurrence. It just happens to be defined by the average size of another peer review term, but they sometimes use wavelength and whatnot. You are welcome, by the way. Sorry, you're all welcome to, to, to use, to use technical language, but I might have to ask you a few questions if you do. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So, I have a, I'm lucky to have a very wonderful companion colleague, if you will, Dr. Alan Rainer, who is a natural scientist. He's based out of the UK.

21:28He was a full professor at University of Baths. And so he had to leave mainstream after he recognized that there is natural occurrence. And then there is what people are insisting out there that he didn't agree with. But having said that, basically, light sound, they are all natural occurrences that happens like this. Okay. So, the energy is moving like this. So, the one, the energy is moving like this locally. You take that energy and you average it based on how much of it is, makes sense within the averaging in a particular situation. So, because sound, sound just has a, a, a different size of this thing versus light.

22:43Okay. So, sound is a little bigger and light is faster. Okay. So, that is the difference. But the, the entire thing is cannot be separated. They're together happening continuously in space. Now, when we average it out for a particular situation, then we end up with a different average value. And that different average value then sort of determines gives us an idea that the average, the average activity, the average light activity average power flow, if you will, whatever the term, whether abstract or real doesn't matter, it's, it just our experiences are different.

23:45So, going back to the sound, then if you create a bad sound with your guitar, you are, you're going to recognize it. You're going to recognize it and say, oh, you know, it, it, it kind of sounds too sharp and, and, and this that the other. But is it, is it overall bad? And, and the question is, yes, it can be. But at the same time, basically, then if, if your brain is averaging it out, it is not as, it is not as fast acting situation as, as light happens to be. So, whenever things are fast, we don't have too much control over it.

24:50So, when, when light activities is fast and it is unnatural like the, the LED light, a flat light thrown out in open air, it's something that will bother us more than, as you said, the sound will. But it can also give you a headache, but it can also give you a headache as a result because it's coming through your eyes. That, that, that's exactly right. This is very, very important what you said because the eyes again are very precious. The way the eyes work for, for us. It is very, very sensitive and it, it includes all of what's going on. It doesn't leave anything behind. It, it, it includes in an analog fashion. Okay, it, it, it is not, it has any gaps or anything. It includes everything. And when it includes everything, then your brain knows, oh my God.

25:59This is unstable. This, this is something that, that is really bothersome. That speed that you're talking about of LED is that why LED car lights can blind you at night. And whereas the older lights, what are the halogen lights wouldn't blind you nearly as much. Exactly, exactly. So the LED headlights again because of its huge size. And, and, and the thing is LED headlights are aggregated by a whole bunch of flat chips together. And then what happens is that when you add up all of these flat chips on, on a flat plane, the result, the, the energy flow, the analog energy flow is huge.

27:00So it's big and it is vibrating like crazy. It's fast and, and, and, you know, it's, it, it feels a lot worse than, than sound just because of how fast and big it is. But also worse than the old school halogen headlights. That's right. So halogen again is because halogen does not have any flat surface. It's all 3D and, and the illumination or, or the light activity it produces in, in space time together is, is, is, is calm and it is, it is, it is actually flat. That's, that's that, and nature's sense of humor, you know, flat light produces really unstable, jittery activity. And then curved light produces calm, flat activity.

28:14Yeah, I mean, if I were to imagine what you're saying, if I were to draw it, I would draw just like an S shape, like a curve, which would represent a natural light, like a fire or a candle, and a very sharp sort of up down vector that looks like maybe a V or a W to represent LED, which would have unnatural points at each, at each end. Is that, is that kind of in the right direction? No, it's not. Okay. All right. No, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll back off. No problem. It is very, very tricky and it took me some time to figure this out myself. So, this is what, what I've been calling is, is a lamb lamb version. Okay. So this lamb version, the lamb lamb version light distribution is actually a sphere.

29:25Oh, which is why my S idea doesn't work. I understand. Okay. Exactly. All right. And this sphere is not the same sphere as the Sun. Because the Sun, the illumination is flat. The illumination from a lamb version, which I have published quite a few times. It is in, in the new book in 2024 with, with color and everything on it. And it is tricky to figure out what those colors are representing. You will see it's, it's a, it's a rainbow color type of lamb version. If you go in the 2024 book, it's all in color. So, and that rainbow color distribution is this bizarre light distribution in, in space time.

30:28That is actually representing more than 3D. It's actually in a wave 4D. Because it's, it's space-yotemporal. And that gets to be really kind of confusing. But at the same time, if, if we sort of break it down, what it all means, then we can see that how such a light distribution can really freak us out. Something else I was thinking about, Nisa, is if I light a match, that little flame, it naturally creates a full light spectrum. LED would create an artificial light spectrum. Am I correct? That is correct. So, it's interesting. It's, it's, it's artificial, but it's artificial in the sense that nature doesn't do it.

31:36But at the same time, nature, nature includes the possibility. Okay, so that's, that's the interesting part that this, this bizarre electromagnetic or light distribution in a ball that at every angle, at every solid angle, it is showing a distinct behavior, space-yotemporally. And your mind picks it up all, all of it. There's nothing you can do about it. Your mind picks up all of these infinitesimal or infinitely many different ways of jitter and instability, all of that, from this bizarre lambersian ball.

32:38Okay, so the only thing that we need to do responsibly is to not create it in the first place. And ancient knowledge included that thou shall not create this thing. Everybody knew that. But in modern era, we've decided that, you know, we, we're going to do it for whatever reason. So, how does LED affect nature? Oh, it's bothering the heck out of them. It, you know, animals do not like it. And animals are similar to human beings in terms of capturing just about every distinct behavior of light or electromagnetic activity in space-time.

33:43So, animals are very, very bothered by it, plants are bothered by it. Every natural entity is bothered by it. All of it. And again, it is something that we, thou shall not do it. It is something that our ancient ancestors, they knew it very, very well. Just don't go there. Regulators, like the FDA and NHTSA, I think, and many others all over the world will argue that there's no harm. Sure. I mean, might is right, you know, and they are more popular. And they are obviously claiming that EI and everything else is just what they say are the way to go.

34:49And, you know, they're more popular and they're going to do it anyway. And it is political. And so, you know, we, this is what we're facing right now. So, we're outnumbered. We're outnumbered, but... Never outgunned. No, we're not outgunned. And they know darn well what they're doing also. You know, if they want to expedite the extinction of humanity, or whatever the goal is, you know, if nature... Nature means... I mean, it's supposed to get all destroyed and recreated anyway. But do we, as human beings, get to decide that? And I do not agree with it, but, you know, we will face whatever the fate comes.

35:54It's obviously a very difficult battle to fight because everything around us now is LED. I was recently in the UK and I was joking with my friends about having incandescent light bulbs. And they said they cannot buy them there. Now, I can still buy those light bulbs fairly easily here in South Africa. Yeah. So, we're lucky in the US. We can still buy them. It's lower wattage and so forth. So, I just use many of them. So, yeah, I mean, in some places they are available and other places they have completely banned it. So, you're stuck with using LED lights. But, you know, it's a difficult situation. So, there's no question about it.

36:55What, what in your opinion would be that slow cumulative damage caused by LEDs? It's over 25 years or even 50 years. That's, that's a good question. I am not sure if I, if I really know the answer to that. It's hard to know. It's hard to know what our sensory perception and the way we experience light. And what's happening with all of that in sort of an aggregate way. So, whether or not we can get used to it in this that the other, I really don't know.

37:56I mean, I think that in the long run, because we human beings do not miss anything. We really, you know, include all of the light activity, spatial temporal activity. It's all, we are experiencing, it's all part of us. So, whether or not some artificial activity put in there in certain amounts, what that's doing to us in the long run and how it's changing us. I don't know. I mean. But would you, but would you say that, but would you say that LEDs are aiding in the collapse of humanity? I think so, I think so, because ultimately what will happen is that there is resurgence of humanity and creation.

39:13So, and this is very important, what's what nature and at the helm of nature is it's actually all physical. And that's, that's something that again, Dr. Alan Rainer and I recognized that it is actually a physical phenomena. What's what what this natural reality is. Okay, so at the helm of physical phenomena is this really interesting concept called space. And this space is also physical, but it has a very special property. And this space is the source of creating what comes after as as as as nature.

40:23Okay, so what happens is that you have the source, which is physical, a particular very very special physical property, if you will. And then that physical entity then uses an energy circulation, combines it and creates what what Alan calls capital nature with a capital and. Okay, so that nature with the capital and after it lives through its period gets destroyed and goes back to this physical entity call very special space itself.

41:23And it goes back and forth and and and this is how the nature as well as the source of nature works together. And and that is something I recently figured out and it was just amazingly illuminating and I had to I had to use the one. It was it is it is very funny actually it is extremely funny and and I am just amazed how right Alan has been all along and in his in his language and in description and everything and and the whole world has been ignoring him and by working with him. There wasn't epiphany where I caught on and and he was so happy that I caught on and then and then what happened in in in more recent days is that I went back to this basic description that exists in a particular.

42:49Book if you will and and that book happens to be believe it or not the Quran and it's very interesting what Muhammad said that the Quran is the basic truth you need but do not forget you will not find everything in it. Your job is to take the basic and find through your own living a servicing life. The remainder of the truth yeah and for that you need to go east. And for that he encouraged people to go to India. And that is all in the Quran but people misunderstand it and and and it is again humanity is so interesting or the artificial humanity is so interesting Hindus believe they've got it all and they do.

44:08But they don't have the basic right they have the recipes right and they don't care because the recipes work. And it is such a vast amount of knowledge all the Ayurveda you name it it is it actually works and it is actually extremely useful and they don't really care why it works they just say it's it's our knowledge it's our everything will there you are making a mistake. You need to get the basics from the Quran and you need to recognize what is actually said in the Quran not what mainstream Islam has made it out to be say you know Quran has everything. I think what you what you arguing is also something that pop culture entirely ignores and that is ancient wisdom ancient knowledge right right so.

45:11The biggest the biggest thing we can do to ourselves is is to drop the arrogance and to to even recognize that we need to drop the arrogance is the lifetime work. Because I've been there. I think a lot of I think a lot of people need to be there and by the way just at this point we still got a few minutes to go but I want to thank you for taking the time to simplify what is otherwise room you know an incredibly complicated conversation I know that your focus is very much in the mathematics and the science. The average person obviously cannot follow that and I appreciate appreciate the grand effort that you be putting into this but going back to the comment I made earlier about you know incandescent light bulbs and so people struggling to get them in various countries on a real day today basis people can actually get away from LEDs in their homes in various ways you can actually actually understand.

46:20And that sounds city but you can use candles you can still find incandescent light bulbs we for example have got a fireplace inside and you know in winter when you like the fire it actually lights up the lounge beautifully. It sure does it sure does we we do the same thing at home. I love candles and I love the fireplace fire and you know we we just keep the. You know we we turn off the LED lights whatever there happens to be you know there are in appliances is it's everywhere so the other thing I do I have created these very very thin. You know plastic. I can put over the appliances to turn horribly white LED light into something more of an amber you know and I'm still be able to see it so I'm doing this at home and I'm having fun with it all but yeah we we can avoid LED light at home by doing our own things with candles and fire and so forth.

47:43Nisa so a question that will invariably come up is okay but then are you saying that. You know on our cell phones and laptops and so on when we you know they've got these apps that turn off blue light etc. Even though it's not really dealing with the root cause is it still better than nothing. You mean when when a warmer. You is used in in the laptop rather than the the bluish look is it yeah and it gets that sort of like yellowy orangey color there people do this all the time now on their cell phones. Yeah well it just makes a difference really that what you're saying. I think it feels better. I think it feels better and again you know it's it's it's the brain brain activity when it comes to light if you can calm that down.

48:50I think that you know at least we feel better. I think it is it is in a way beneficial but at the same time if it is if it is you know emitted from from a flat source then you know we we have a problem we have an inherent problem. So you know we we should just try to see whether it's helping us by just you know with warmer color it's it's probably better than nothing. But as you say the root cause is still the LED itself. So you know these these flat laptops and things like that. It's it's it's it's an issue you know it's it's it's something that if we can get around. We would be better off.

49:54So way to now because it seems like this is excuse the pun but you know is there light at the end of the tunnel. Well light is everywhere there's nothing you can do about it. And if if bad light is kept in a tunnel. Then it's it's it's a responsible way of of going about it. And this is this is why you know five fiber optics. Keeping keeping flat light in pipes is a better idea than letting it out like LED lighting out in in 3D and wireless radiation out in 3D. So yeah I mean naturally light is everywhere and and there's nothing you could we can do about it.

51:00We're going to experience it. It's there. It's it's it's who we are. We are we are light beings and you know it's it's all continuous analogous. You know there's nothing digital about it. So this is just the way nature is. So anything we can do to stay away from creating flat lights and and then throwing it out in 3D. We would be better off and and there is something called doing things in moderation as well. I think we're going crazy sitting in front of a laptop the whole day. And using our cell phones the whole day and things like that we we really don't you know it feels much better to sit with a friend and and go out in nature or make your own food.

52:01You know I mean sure we can we can learn this this that the other but doing things in in moderation is is something that humanity should should embrace. I mentioned to you earlier that I was in China last year and I traveled extensively across the country and. At night time the city's light up a quality imagine that being a good thing. Yeah I'm amazed by their tolerance of it. I really am. It is super harmful. There's no question about it. How they can they can tolerate it and embrace it like this is you know it's it's very very surprising. There are a few who are hating this but I there they're not the majority there there have been some really wise older Chinese people I have known years ago they warned this is really bad lighting we should not go there.

53:16I remember working with those people but they are outnumbered for sure. Okay so Nisa this is a fairly dark conversation 10 15 maybe 20 years from now people will look at your work. This is the this is the nature of being ahead of the curve but for now how how can people follow your work. Yes thank thank you for asking that question so right now there is three of us that I have often mentioned in public media. Dr Alan Rainer I already mentioned the other gentleman is professor C. K. Raju. And he is based out of India and he also used to be mainstream and then decided to dump mainstream.

54:16I think he was perhaps earlier than even Alan and me so he has dumped mainstream. So if I were to guess more than 20 years ago and so I am in in touch with him and occasionally you know correspond with him talk with him and he says the same thing that he feels responsible and he's also ahead as you mentioned that I am an Alan is. And so he feels responsible because he has been fortunate to to recognize this that he needs to leave enough work behind so that people can pick it up when they are ready.

55:16So he has been writing many books and he has had lectures that you can find in YouTube and in his own website and Alan is is very very active doing the same thing and Alan and I are offering workshops every other month so there is six there is six a year where we go live and we have a live audience. And we conduct the workshop with live discussions, demonstrations, reasoning and all of that and people have been finding it very very useful and I have a website where people can get the recordings of these things anytime they want. So these are some of the things that we are working very hard to first of all do and make things available as recordings for the future for people to be able to go and fetch them and use them as they find useful.

56:25Thank you for joining me in the trenches. Thank you.