Hunting Gear Podcast - Made In The U.S.A.

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1:23www.americanexpress.com slash explore.com Enrollment requirements monthly and other limits in terms of apply. For more information visit JamesHearty.com slash heartybacker. Hey everybody welcome back. This is the Hunting Gear Podcast and I'm your host Ann Johnson and today we're going to be talking about made in America. Today's guest Jacob Coons is a returning guest myself.

2:29We're going to talk about what that means to us. We're going to talk about if made in America actually means that a product is better. We're going to talk about some stereotypes from the made in America stigma that back in the day. If it was made in China it was junk. But now I feel like technology is starting to catch up with the manufacturing processes and the technology is making it is closing the quality gap. Hunting products and the hunting culture for a lot of people being made in America is a huge influence on how they choose their hunting gear and equipment and on others it's more price driven. So that's what today's conversation is about. It's about a lot of categories.

3:29We talk about made overseas. Maybe made overseas doesn't necessarily mean it's the worst thing possible. But it's just an open conversation about two guys. I personally love when a product is made in America. But there are times when I'm not going to buy an American made product if it's on the market. Just because it could potentially be outside of my budget. And so there's a lot that goes into it and that's what we talk about today. I know you guys are going to enjoy it. Before we get into the conversation though I got to talk about code blue sensor real quick. Now the hunting season is almost here and actually the 9 finger chronicles podcast within the next I'm going to say three weeks I'm going to try to get Troy pottinger on. And he's going to talk about mock scrape setups. And ultimately that's what I'm going to be using from code blue. I'm going to be using some of their other stuff. There are other sense. But I'm really looking forward to using their rope a dope.

4:34Little I guess it's the rope a dope mock scrape kit. And I feel like if I do it right I can get deer in front of trail cameras and within shooting range. And it's just something that I'm very interested in. So here's what I'm going to say I'm going to say go to code blue sense dot com read up on all the different sent elimination sprays they have the both real deer. Tarsal like real deer Tarsal lands real deer urine. And they also have synthetics they have laundry detergent deodorant so when it comes to scent and whether you're trying to block yours or use theirs to get deer closer they have it. And I do have a discount code and it is NFC 204 20% off. So if you have any questions about code blue or the discount code hit me up on Instagram. And I say we cut it short and let's get right into today's hunting gear podcast with Jacob Coons.

5:38Three two one. All right ladies and gentlemen welcome back to the hunting gear podcast and I am joined today by returning guest Mr Jacob Coons Jacob man how we doing. Dan I'm doing great it's August the countdown is on and it's exciting here in Kentucky we start dear season in about 30 days. You know I got a tip of a hat I got a tip of a hat to the guys that come to Kentucky for the September of deer because it's like the Amazon out there. I mean I do it a little bit but it's not a lot of fun because it's just it's not that October or late you know that November rut stuff but yeah it's exciting I'm excited and I'm excited about you know some out of state stuff and it's going to be a good it's going to be a good season regardless of what happened. Yeah what do you got going on this fall I mean what out of state hunts you going on. So I drew a general L tag for Wyoming I'm going to go out there for about two weeks in September I'm going to go solo I've gone out west before and I hunt solo here for deer but it's a different animal when you're you're bivy hunting out of your backpack and you're you know you're 1500 miles from home and if something goes bad it's really can go bad so yeah I'm a little excited and nervous at the same time but I think

7:06you know sometimes you know we just try to do things that are difficult to just test ourselves and I think this will be a fun test so I'll tell you what man you mentioned you're going to Wyoming for now right. Yeah and how long are you going to be going for that one how many weeks you know it's it's always that's funny because I may just go for 30 days and get fired and divorced and not have a home when I get back. Because I think that that's how a lot of us think but technically it's supposed to be like 10 days I may stretch that into two weeks. Yeah I'll be completely honest with you there are days where I I wouldn't give a shit if I come back home and the doors are locked in the keys are changed I'd be like at least I went on a least I went on an elk hunt like I don't like I don't care if you're going to leave me because I hunt I went on a hunt and not because I'm an alcoholic or I'm going to be a little bit more I'm an alcoholic or I'm a drug addict or I'm abusive or you fill in the blanks there that's I feel like there's other there's got to there's always some other problems attached like your wife left you because you were hunting too much right did he pay the bills yeah did he did

8:24I have a good job yeah was he nice yeah was he a good dad yeah oh so you left him why again like that just doesn't make such they just bitch for a while and then just let him bitch but you know then I tell you what if that happens to one of us let's commit to doing drugs together something really really you know wild and crazy we'll go exactly we'll just go on some vendors and it really make people question us yeah question our sanity I know a couple guys who have probably come with us so it's all good man but that's the thing like I've I've been collecting preference points in Wyoming now for I'm going to say like eight years okay and so when I eventually go to do that hunt I'm going to do it big and there's not like I'm going to communicate with my wife I'm going to set expectations but the expectation is that I want to do it by myself but I'm going to go for longer than eight days like I do like because usually I leave on a Saturday morning on my South Dakota hunts and I'm back the following Sunday alright so you know two days of travel

9:43and six six to eight days to hunt alright this is going to be a different story because I've collected this many points all you know the whole way through and so I'm going to I'm going to do it right I'm going to do it big and it's like a once in a lifetime deal especially when you have you've dedicated that much time to collecting preference points well I mean one of the things that doesn't get talked about enough Dan is when we go on these out of state trips is like you have to get every duck in a row at the house yep and a few years ago I went to Montana and our refrigerator was acting up and I just had screw it we're buying a new refrigerator and it was it was a really high in nice refrigerator but I was like I don't need this nonsense like first of all I don't need my wife buying a fridge while I'm going because who knows what that would look like but two I don't it would look like a new husband is what it would look like I don't want to think about it I don't want to get some exactly say oh the fridge is dead you know we don't have any room for our food blah blah blah blah so there's so much I mean we talk about gear and all that other stuff I mean you got to get your house pranks I mean you got to get every freaking thing lined up

11:03so that it works like clockwork just like when you're there so yeah it's and yet I still get calls and I still get text messages like I can remember one year I went on and out of state hunt and I was like I'm like I will be back at this date all right and so I scheduled an eight days and they're basically two days of driving on the one on the front one on the back and it was like two maybe three days and it's like when are you coming back the kids are going crazy I'm like a listen you just got to deal with it you just got to deal with it because yeah you know you're an adult and I've this is what I this is what I do I don't do anything else this is what I do so deal with it yeah so sometimes they don't like to hear that it's I'm not going to say anymore because she's right behind you hey dude blink if you need help blink if you need help no man was on the podcast let's listen to that

12:05exactly I'm really looking forward to this coming season I know I know you are I don't have I don't have a single trail camera out and I bet you I've been saying that for about six weeks now I need to get trail cameras out I need to get trail cameras out and I don't have one trail camera out right now I put my now in like February and March when I'm freaking going nuts and I mean there's you know I don't first of all you better have lithium ion batteries and you better hope that you lock it because of turkey hunters and you better hope that you don't get brush that grows over it and like I you know here can tuck you like I said it's like the freaking Amazon so I'm guessing the cameras I have out probably are just getting pictures of weeds but I just don't like getting out and some of this stuff I mean I will probably go out in the next two or three weeks and pull some of that just to look at that data but I tend to cover ground in January February March so I can see you know the rub sign the trails everything's dead of course and into me that helps me set up for this coming season plus it gets me sort of scratches that it's but you know I don't know I mean I know there's not a single trail in that

13:18it sort of scratches that itch, but you know, I don't know. I mean, I know there's something to be said about shifting food and shifting patterns and you know, the data that I get, I mean, who knows if those cameras are still live, I might be missing out on a bunch of data, but that's generally how I do it. Yeah. All right, hunting gear podcast talk. And this is something that I don't talk about, like in detail. I've mentioned it before, but we're going to get into detail, to a big detail today, hopefully about it. And that is made in America products versus not made in America products. And I think I honestly think there's a lot to talk to talk about. And you, you kind of brought it up in a message to me or when we were talking in the last hunting gear podcast that you were on. And so I think what I'd like to do is I just want to start vague and

14:22get real detailed. How important is made in America, that little tag on any product you buy that says made in America. How important is that to you? So I want to back up here because I just, I want to put some context around it. I mean, let's first of all, Dan, let's admit that we all own a billion products that are not made in America. I mean, our, you know, our appliances, like I was just referring to, you know, TVs, the computers that we're on right now, but I know you don't have an iPhone. We talked about that last time, but probably your Android was, was, and my iPhone, my car, my clothing, a lot of our hunting equipment. And so, you know, a lot of stuff that we're buying. And Dan, you're the CEO of your household, right? And you've got to, you've got to make decisions. You have revenue and you have an expenses and you have to make decisions based on, you know, you need to have a profit at the end of the year, right?

15:25That's a good one. That's a good one. I guess it depends on who you're talking to, but, yes, that's the ultimate goal is to put some money in savings. Okay, so there you go. I mean, and so I think anytime we buy USA goods, it's a good thing. I mean, it's employing our neighbors, it's raising our tax base, it's helping our school systems, there's a trickle down effect. And honestly, it's better that I like the idea of us being independent from a, you know, as a country, not dependent on China and Southeast Asia for, you know, our goods and services. So, but I recently had an interaction with a CEO of a hunting company, a regarding one of their products. And they, you know, there, there's a lot of these platforms out there that are creating a store for their, for their audience or their tribe or whatever. And so like Go Hunt used to just do tag

16:35stats, you know, or draw stats, but now they have an online store and Black Ovis is an online store. And media are, media are right. Yeah, yeah, media leaders. That's a, that's a perfect one. Media dear. I think hunting fool, it's also is another like sort of tag company. They have gearful now. Yep. A lot of, a lot of places. Go wild is, you know, that, that online app, they have a gear store. And so a lot of these companies are selling products. And one of them, which will remain nameless, was co-promoting a product that they sort of partnered with on a different, with a different company. And it was, it was a backpack. It was, you know, I took a good hard look at it. I really wanted, I was like, oh, this looks interesting. So it was a backpack. And it was about 26 liters. So this is a little bit bigger than your kids back, school backpack. It was Camel. It has some Molly looping

17:38on it. And, um, and then it opens up and it has a sleeve for your laptop. So this, there was no, you know, there's no frame, expandable frame. It wasn't designed for saddle hunting or anything specific. It was just a basic backpack. And so, you know, I, I was really surprised by the sticker price on it. And, and so, you know, I was, I mean, if you, you know, think about conceptually, what I just described then, like it was a basic backpack, but it was Camel, Molly paneling. And let's just assume that it's made better than, well, it was made in the USA and it's better known. So I'm just going to put that on there. It was made in the USA and it was, it is better known. Made in USA. Better known. Yeah. All right. And so, you know, those are good things, good things. But, um, I'm going to share with you some pricing on a comparable backpack that's not made in the USA,

18:40but, but I, I happen to use, I've used it for three, four years now. I just beat the, the hell out of it. But what do you think would be the, I mean, it's just a average backpack. What do you think would be the sticker price on something like that? But made in the USA and better known. My day kicks off with the refreshing Celsius energy drink, then straight to the gym. Pre-get pick up, back home to meal prep, time for my fire station shift. One more Celsius kind of keep the lights on. When the three alarm hits, I'm ready. Celsius, live, fit, go. Grab a cold refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate now at Celsius.com. All right. All you white tail nut jobs. It's hunting season. And that means football is finally back. College kickoff is here. NFL is right around the corner. And my bookie is where I'm placing my action this season, whether you're in between hunts or just checking lines from the tree stand. My bookie makes it stupid, simple to lock in your place. Plus, new users get the bet back bonus. Sign up with

19:43promo code SE opt in and your first wager is protected. That means if it loses, you get it right back. No questions asked head to my bookie. Use promo code SE and get in on the action today bet on anything anytime, anywhere for the first time ever in the US. The best U23 wrestlers in the world descend on Las Vegas for the 2026 galaxy. You 23 world wrestling championships at the UNLV Thomas and Mac center from October 12 to the 18th. Don't miss your opportunity to see team USA's wrestlers battle for gold on the world stage right here in the United States. Tickets are on sale at UNLV tickets.com get 20% off by using code team USA. Well, it's hard for me to not like to make a guess without not knowing what I know. So I'm going to say that that backpack was between $250 and $300. Okay. Okay. What do you think it would retail if it was made in China? I'm going to go with

20:50$200. Okay. Okay. So, um, well, the backpack that I have and there's several that are out there that are really well built and they're happy to be made in China. They're somewhere between $40, $50. Okay. Um, maybe, you know, if you looked a little bit harder like it like a Columbia backpack of similar design is $70. And again, these are all XUS products. This particular backpack was $355. Okay. And, um, you know, I, I'm not afraid to voice my opinion. And, and so I, I, I, the CEO and the founder had left five star reviews on this product. And, you know, and I'll be honest with you, meat eater does this a lot. Meat eater will have products of their own and then have their guys

21:53build new videos of reviewing those products. And I don't necessarily have a problem with that. I think my problem is that when you start leaving like star reviews, it's like, wait, you're selling something and you're putting your five stars against it. And it just seems to me a little disingenuous. It's like, wait a minute. You know, I just bought it. I just got a new Toyota vehicle. And I'm like, well, what does the CEO think of this, this RAV4? Well, I don't know. Maybe he'll give it three stars. I don't know. You know, no, he's like, like, yeah, do you understand? Do you? I know, I know exactly what you're saying. The, the, the, the, the first glance review will be skewed because of individuals that may work for that company are heavily waiting it as a very quality product. And maybe the other people like, obviously, I don't know exactly what percent of people

22:54review products. But if you're going on and you're the owner of the company and you're leaving a review, a five star review saying it's great. Well, that's, it becomes less of a review and more of a marketing tactic. That's, that, I mean, that's how I feel now. I guess for some reason, I don't have a problem if, if somebody from meat eater takes a backpack and then sort of breaks it down like why it's about you, you know, like, but they, but I guess when they technically start putting like, like Amazon five star reviews on something that's really part of their product or part of their co-promote, I feel like it's a little, little slight a hand. But, but that was one of my issues. But my other issue was the price. I was really surprised about the sticker price of $355. And I pointed that out in a, in, in sort of a poster reply regarding this product. And so I got called out a little bit as part of the cancel culture. You know, I was sort of not a capitalist

23:55and, and, and by the way, this was made in the USA and veteran owned. And so it really, Dan, I'll be honest with you, threw me back on my heels a little bit because that made me really think about, am I, you know, am I, am I, is it wrong for me to see a made in the USA products? It's sort of get back to your original question to see something that's made in the USA like was broadheads or marsupial gear vinyl harness or and be like, well, I should buy this because it's made in the USA, even though, you know, like this particular product, and I'm not talking about wasper or marsupial, but this particular product was priced way outside of the marketplace. Yeah, it was, in my opinion, way outside the marketplace, and it wasn't presenting anything innovative. Like it really, like when I look at like, was marsupial, stone glacier, cafferoo vortex, I think is a great example. Like when I see those companies and those products, I see companies that are within the kind,

25:02the price range of that particular category, and I see them bringing some value or some innovation to the marketplace. And so I really had to stop and sort of think about like, what is the value of made in the USA better known versus, you know, buying something from China, but I don't know, Dan, what are your thoughts? I mean, do you feel like, so here's where I get off, or this is where I have my stance. You take that tag off, there are some products, let me back up even further. I think a while ago, and I don't want to put a time on it, but a while ago, the whole made in China, or made in some Asian country, had there was a negative connotation because the quality used to be poor. I'll just say it used to be poor. But as time goes on, and technology advances,

26:04right, Moore's Law, for every technology, every 18 months, I believe Moore's Law is, every 18 months technology doubles in whatever the metric there is for the application, and then the price is reduced, right? So what you're seeing is a lot of people are going to China, because you can still get or overseas manufacturing in general, you can get a quality product now. And so I am a firm believer that price does reflect quality these days, because I feel like the stereotype of something being crap if it's made in America, it's kind of fate, or if it's made in China or overseas, it's kind of fading away, because people understand that if you make a shit product, you will not be in business anymore.

27:07If it's junk, especially in the hunting industry, if you make products that are junk, and they last four sits or one season, me personally, I'm not touching them. But like, I don't feel so, so, but there's a price point for everybody, right? Our price point is going to be different than someone who makes double our money in a year, or you know, 50% less of what we make in a year, something like that. And so it really comes down to budget at that point. I like the fact that certain things are made in America. I do take it into consideration. If there is, if there is, let's just say, I don't know, the first thing that came to mind was broad heads. If there's a broad head that's made in America, and there is a broad head that's made overseas, and they are, they're similar price point, same type of technology, and I don't know,

28:11I guess it would just be price point material, durability, things like that. I'm going to pick, I'm going to pick the United States product because it's a no-brainer. To me, it's like a duh. Why not pick an American-made product if all things are, all other things are equal, okay? And I would be willing to pay a little bit more if all things are equal. And the only difference is, enter your comfortable percentage here. Just for peace of mind saying that, you know what? I really think that I like the fact that it's made in America. It supports American jobs. I guess where I have the issue is, I don't know, I used to have an issue, but I don't think there's that big of an issue anymore as long as the product holds up to what they're saying. Now,

29:18like what you were getting at, leaving reviews, like skewing the reviews. Yeah, I have a problem with that. I don't care where it's made. Whether it's made in America or it's made in China. If you're skewing the reviews, that's an issue. But also, if it is just a brand that, a lot of these brands they go for the cool guy factor, like, hey, if you want to be cool, you have to buy this product. If you want to be in our club, you have to buy this product. Almost some like E-Leadism type marketing strategy. I'm not cool with that. I'm not, I sure as shit, I don't care who makes it. If you're outpriced of your category, if you're way overpriced in your category, I am, I'm not going to buy your product. I don't care where it's made. I don't care who owns it. Because everybody has a budget man. Yeah. I think you brought two things there. So I think that we're interesting.

30:22One is the cool guy, Spanamanon, which I see, and I'm sure other people see where it's like, hey, we've got this product here. It's made in China, but we're going to slap on the logo. And we're going to sell it to you at a markup, which I can't stand. And that's one of the reasons why I do what I do in terms of, you know, my channel in terms of product reviews and examinations. Because I'm like, let's take a look at this product from the influencer and this product from China and see, or this known product and see how different they really are. And is there value there? But you know, another company that comes to, a company that comes to mind that I'm going to mention origin. Have you, have you followed any of that stuff from that company? Yes. So I've seen, I might even follow them on Instagram. I'm not 100% sure. But their, their big push is,

31:22clothing that is made in America, correct? Correct. And they have a, they have a camel pattern too. They do. Yes. And camhains is on board there. Yep. And, and so for me, I look at that company as an outsider. And I think, oh, that's interesting. They're making, they're, and they talk about bringing manufacturing back to the US and, you know, a payroll textile manufacturing. And I, I think, again, that's important. And I love that stuff. But I feel like as a company, that's, they're leading with that. And I think me as a consumer, I want to hear about innovation. I want to hear about value. I want to hear about something. So, you know, when it comes to made in the USA, again, if I look at like exo mountain gear, you know, they make brain backpacks out of Idaho, you know, they're bringing innovation to the marketplace. And all by the way, we're made in the U.S.A. Or was brought heads make darn good broad heads. But oh, by the way, they're made in the USA.

32:23So they're not leading with the USA dynamic. It's sort of like, oh, by the way, you know, vortex optics, we make really strong optics. And oh, by the way, we're made in the USA. And I really personally, I think that's the way to go if, you know, for companies that, that, you know, obviously, it's a selling point to us. But I think we're looking at where's the value, where's the innovation? It's just, you're not going to get me to buy orage and camo just because it's made in the USA. I can't, I need to see more from them. But yeah, would you agree? I don't know, man. From athletic stuff, like a full-core pickup game, swish to athletic is stuff. Like a half-mile stroll. Get those steps in. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all. From athletic to athletic ish. Sierra's got it. It's so tough because I'll tell you this is how I make my purchases. I identify a need that I have. I go out and I research everything

33:25that I'm going to spend my money on. I look for options. I'll put those options on a list. I will compare the list to each other. And then I will say, does this fill my, fill my need? If all things are the same, right? And this product and this product are close to each other in price in, or even if one's higher, but it's made in America, like I said, I'll probably try to, I will, I will actively try to buy USA. But I'm not spending a ton more, like if it's ridiculously outside of its range, right? I'm not going to, I'm not buying, I'm not going to buy it. So I'm looking to fill a need. I understand that it's important to buy American, but I'm not, I'm not blowing a budget to make that happen. So you mentioned broadheads. I recently, so Dan, I,

34:29I've you traditionally used McKin, or fixed broadhead, fixed blade broadhead. I've shot iron wheels, I've shot cutthroats. I mentioned the wasp. I mean, I shot a buck with a wasp a couple of years ago. And arrow went through his, you know, through his vitals and then curved in such a way that it broke, it hit his femur. And so when I was processing that deer Dan, it broke that femur clean and half. And that broadhead looked like it was brand new. Like, and I was just so impressed. Now, so, um, but I don't, I want to get, um, I want to get better blood trails. I'll be honest with you. I've, I, I shot a doe a couple of years ago with an iron wheel and I'm literally like, can't hardly find a blood trail. I know she's dead. And I'm literally standing right next to her. I don't even know it because of, you know, it's, it was early, early season archery. And so I grabbed some, some really cheap broadheads off of Amazon. Um, they're called, I think they're called keep. K-E-A-U-K-E-A-U-P.

35:38I think I've got them over here somewhere here. Well, here they are. Here I'll show one to you. And you tell me what this looks like. And if you can see it. Yeah, that looks like a rage. It looks a lot like a rage, right? Yep. So, um, they're for, for six of them, you get 20, you, for $26, you get six of them, which is really about a quarter of the price of a rage. Um, and I shot them. And I'm, and, and the rage brought heads. They don't, I mean, they don't really say where they're made. Like, the packaging doesn't say, the website doesn't say, I've read on forums that they're made in the USA. So this really isn't necessarily a USA versus China thing. But, but these are clearly made, these are made in China. They do stay down in the packaging and they were super cheap. And I've always wanted to try to mess around with Amazon broadheads. And so this is not a company that's like you would find a website for or anything like that.

36:41It's purchased or it's manufactured by a company just to put it on Amazon. I, yeah, yeah, to compete directly with a similar product, aka rage. Yeah. And so, let me tell you something. Yeah, I've been to a lot of ATA shows. Okay. And there are people and I'm going to, I'm going to stereotype here. And I hope I don't get canceled for this. But, but there are people who are of Asian descent, I will say, going around taking pictures of products at the ATA show. Wow. And some people do not like that because they will take those pictures. They will take it back to China. They will make it. And then they will sell it exactly like what you're talking about. And so it was a, it was a big thing for a while to where, you know, if you didn't have your patents on point, someone was going to rip you off. Wow. That's, I, that's really

37:46interesting because I've heard of that with the construction industry, particularly happening to Caterpillar, long story, but similar thing where Asian descent people, you know, that you, you know, they're there at the Caterpillar plant taking pictures. And then, you know, manufacturing something very similar to undercut our products. But, yeah. So, I mean, you know, Dan, that brings up a really, that's a very interesting, you know, bit of commentary there because, you know, the way I look at it, sometimes I feel like companies are sending our manufacturing products over there and China and bringing them back. And then you have these companies that, to your point, are making something similar, you know, I can't tell you that these shot really well. And, and it's, well, you know, someone might not want to purchase these because of what you just stated, but they shot really well. I was shooting these broadheads into some ballistic gel along with

38:48some other broadheads, the other mechanicals. And these actually, from penetration standpoint, out penetrated the ballistic gel by two inches over the, over the ranges that I was shooting. And so, by two inches? By two inches. That's, that's pretty substantial if you ask me. I mean, two inches, if you hold it up isn't huge, but when it comes to penetration, that's like, whether or not it's going to go out and create two holes or not. Right. Yeah. Right. I think this was, this was 19 inches of ballistic gel that I, that I created in my kitchen, which was fun. And, yeah, it was, I think, it penetrated, it penetrated a think about 18 of those inches. So it didn't come out the other side of the ballistic gel. But the, the, the, the rage broadheads actually got to about 16 inches and these were at 18 inches. And then I was looking at a mushy broadhead and a sever broadhead as well.

39:52But yeah. But yeah, so it's, it's a, it's a, it's a very sticky, sticky place in terms of, you know, from a product standpoint, like what are you by and what do you support? And then how does it perform, you know, when you shoot it? Right. Right. Because I, I'll tell you this, if I, if I said to myself, I'm only buying American. And if there was a problem with an American product, and it cost me a dear of a lifetime, I don't care if it was because of noise or performance or, or construct, I'm never going to use it again. I will never use it again. And that's why like, for me, I will say this that I, I like the fact that was broadheads are made in America. I like that they're designed in America. I like the fact that they're made from some of the best material possible. All right. And the price is okay for me. Yeah. Even though like full disclosure,

40:54I partner with them. But I've, I've been, I've been using was broadhead since 2006. I did skew off of their heads for, I want to say a season or two in that, in, in this time frame. But then, you know, kept coming back to them. And then I formed a partnership with them. So it's great. Outside of that, I really like, if, but I'm comfortable and I'm confident, it just so happens that they're made in America. And it's, it feels good. I'll be honest, it feels good to support a company that's made in America. But as far as function and need is concerned, if it's not meeting my need, or if it's not functioning when I need it to function, then I'm going to have to go looking somewhere else for, for that. Yeah. Yeah. No, I hear you. And, you know, just for those that are listening that might be interested, you know, from a performance standpoint, the sever broadhead is a sever 2.0 titanium that actually blew through the 19 inches of ballistic gel and was

42:03poking out, made an incredible wound channel. And it's actually what I'm going to switch to this year Dan, and it's purely based on performance. I do not know where the sever broadheads are made. But I like their design. The blade sort of flares out and locks in place. And, and swivels, but stays locked as sort of like one blade, one two inch blade. And so I'm going to give those to try. I'm still going to keep a fixed blade broadhead in my quiver, probably the cutthroats, because of like if you're in thick brush and you want to put a shot through something, you don't want that broadhead, you know, that mechanical to deploy in mid-flight or whatever. But, but now I agree, you know, performance is everything. The good news is that there are a lot of made in the USA products out there that are competitive in our performing well. So, right. Absolutely. And so I'd really be interested to have you on. And I know you want to shoot severed.

43:04But if you're going to go on a dough hunt or a less important hunt, I'd love to see you shoot a deer with those Amazon deals, those rage rip offs, just to see what they do on a deer. All right. All right, Dan. I'll give it a shot. I'll give it a shot. Like I said, in September, the year season opens and I need to put some meat in the freezer. So, there you go. There you go. No, we'll need a report back. But yeah, there's a lot of that. There's a lot of that. That happens, man. I mean, there's a lot of ripping off in the industry. I mean, whether they're company, their products are made in China or not, there's a lot of, I don't know, there's a lot of ripping off that happens. Now, I want to talk about durability and for a second, because I, from a clothing standpoint, I wear, I can't, now, now I'm questioning myself, I wear a brand

44:04called Arbor Wear. And Arbor Wear is a, I'm going to just pull it up real quick. Arbor Wear is a clothing company designed specifically for Arborist, guys who are climbing trees all day long, guys who are cutting down trees, Arbor Wear. All right, let's see here. Arborwear.com. They should have whether or not they're made in America. I can't, I forget if they are or not. There's something tells me they, they might be. Anyway, a very durable, a very durable product. And it's on the high end in price. And so, but I've had some of their jeans now for seven years, some of their shirts for that long. So that tells me they are, they're a good company, they're produced well, they're manufactured, they're manufactured.

45:06And yeah, so what's your take on, on durability? Do you feel that products that are made in the, if we're going to go by the law of averages here? Do you feel that products that are made in the United States perform or are more durable than products not manufactured in the United States? Black Friday is coming. Last year, businesses on Shopify made billions in sales. This holiday season, you could be one of them. If you start now, Shopify helps you launch fast, so you can design your site and start selling before the biggest shopping days of the year. What are you waiting for? Tis the season to start selling. Start for free at Shopify.com. Kitchen and bathroom professionals know what goes behind the tile matters. That's why trade pros trust fiber cement, hearty backer board to keep tile firmly in place, resist cracking,

46:07and held block moisture. Chosen over 40 million kitchens and bathrooms, hearty backer board, what the best build on. Shop now at participating home depot, lows, and floor into core stores. For more information, visit jameshardy.com slash heartybacker. Quick choose a meal deal with McValue, the $5 McChicken meal deal, the $5 McW meal deal, or the new $6 Daily Double Meal deal, each with its own small fries drink and four piece Mcmuckets. There's actually no rush. I'm just excited for McDonnell's. For limited time, only person participation made very not Valverna Delivery. Well, you know, I'm looking at some of their gear online. I pulled it up on my phone Dan and I mean, it looks, it's one of those things that it looks like it's the original tree climber's gear as their motto. And it does. It looks, it has a look to it even from the website. It's just like, yeah, that looks like tough gear that you could really beat the hell out of and expect it to,

47:08you know, last years. You know, I took a deep dive into, you know, I've taken a deep dive into some other gear. And like I've always for years, I had a vinyl harness from Badlands that was, and it was made in Vietnam. And I went on all kinds. I used it for white tail. I've used it for everything. And it's, I beat the hell out of it. And it's done well. And I didn't know where it was made, Dan. And I took a hard look at seven different harnesses earlier this year because this is sort of the year of the vinyl harness. And I did know in my evaluations, like where they made, you know, where are they, you know, and Badlands has a new one. It's made in Vietnam again. Alaska Guide Creations has

48:10a really strong one. It's actually made in the USA. FHF gear, which is part of the meat eater company, made in the USA, a marsupial gear, made in the USA. And really, you know, those three right there are Alaska Guide Creations FHF and marsupial. I mean, you can, I think it's some of the fine detail. You can feel a little bit of a difference. You can see a little bit of difference. I didn't really realize it until I started messing with them that like the FHF gear Fob vinyl harness. Now it's really expensive, Dan. It's 180 bucks. But I'll be darned if it doesn't, like you can see and feel some of the craftsmanship. And it's not my number one vinyl harness, but because it's so expensive, because in order to get a false kit, you're going to have to buy some additional things to put on it. And they put you over like $210 for just your vinyl harness. But I was really impressed. Like I'll be honest with you, Dan, I know we've been sort of talking about,

49:14you know, China products being a little bit better than they used to be or whatever. But from a vinyl harness standpoint, like that Alaska Guide Creations ravis, I'm actually, I don't have it out here in front of me, but it is, I mean, it's, I'm going to use some tag lines that a lot of people use. It's bomb proof. And it's, and it's overbuilt. Like it really is, it looks like something that I would buy from that Arbor Arbor gear or Arbor wear that you purchase. So, so in that example, you're saying that it performs for category of vinyl harness made in America performs better and is more durable than not made in America. Well, I think, I think one of the things is that it's, it's very specific. So like there was a brand called Speaker, like we talked about the Amazon, you know, made for just Amazon brands. And so there was an Amazon brand Speaker of vinyl harness that maybe, you know, five years ago, Dan would have been an amazing vinyl harness,

50:19but this is, it was $60, but it didn't have the fun. And it was really well made. And it sort of a forward opening. And I think we're, I think we're us as hunters can see the value in USA made goods is that when they're in to it, they're made with an intuitiveness for our needs as a hunter. So like the FHF gear, like I mentioned, like there's an intuitiveness there in terms of the sleep design, the some of the attachment points, they, the people that the people that designed it know exactly what we need when we're on a, on a western hunt or with the marsupial gear. Whereas if I look at like something that's made by a company called Speaker, where it's like, like I said, 60 bucks versus 180 bucks. Yeah, it's a vinyl harness. It could work. And it's designed. I mean, it's a hunting vinyl harness, but it doesn't have the fine detail. Like if I need to grab my range

51:20finder or grab my wind, wind shucker or if I need, you know, to put my, attach my bear spray, attach my pistol or where, where, where, where I want to put my phone. Like there's, we're starting to put so much gear in our vinyl harnesses these days. And so I think when it comes to like something like maybe with the the arbor wear or with something like vinyl harnesses, there is a lot of thought put into it about the needs of, of that particular hunter. And I think it goes back to again, where's the innovation, where's that value. And I see that with some of the USA made vinyl harnesses. Gotcha. Gotcha. So I just looked up to as far as clothing manufacturers. And I believe I just saw that KUU is manufactured overseas. And Sitka is manufactured actually in Montana.

52:22That's what I'm reading here, I believe. Some of their stuff is manufactured in Bozeman, Montana. Does that sound right? I don't know. I don't, I'd actually have to grab a piece of sicker gear and I think look at the label to be honest with you. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, Kudos to them. And you know, so that could result in why Sitka is the highest, you know, the one of the highest costing camouflage. I mean, I will tell you this, their gear is outstanding. The outstanding Sitka's, Sitka's gear is outstanding. It is expensive. But you know, some could say it's expensive for a reason. And it says here, where is Sitka clothing manufactured? Sitka clothing is manufactured in Bozeman, Montana. Now, I'm not a hunt like this is from a, this is just to cite it, madefind.com. So I'm not sure if that is, where is Sitka produced? It's based in,

53:33let's see, retail store reports. Yeah, I think that that is, if that's the case, we need to hear more about that from the Sitka's other world. Yeah. Because, you know, I could justify spending a little bit more because not like we go back to the intuitiveness of the design, I think Sitka was really one of the first to come up with certain things for the White Tell Hunter in terms of, you know, a place for your grunt tube or whatever. And so to me, I wouldn't, I would be open to spending a little bit more if I know that that's, you know, manufactured here in the USA. And the fact that we don't know is a problem, you know, it seems like if it is or if only certain garments are, it would be nice for us to know about that and not have to, okay, here's some, here's some contradicting information though, all American.org. So, it is mainly Sitka gear is mainly made overseas. Okay. Okay. Some items may be manufactured

54:43in the US, but as you will read below, we had a good amount of difficulty learning more. So, this is from a company called AllAmerican.org and they basically did research, there's this whole article about Sitka gear. And it sounds like some of their products are made in the United States. Yeah, yeah. And some, most of it is probably made in the United States. They show Sitka supplier lists. Oh yeah. It looks like they got a hold of a list here. And the company and their address is online. And yeah, these, some of these brands look like they are, yeah, a lot of these companies look like

55:46they're in China or Asian countries. They, you know, some, but there are other, there are other cities in this list that like have California and New Jersey and yeah, but a lot of them are looks like Thailand and China. And as far as their supplier, right? Now, yeah, one thing people got to watch out for and I used to work for a company called Wicked Tree Gear. Every single piece of that product was manufactured in China, but it was, it was brought, it was assembled in the United States. So that allowed us to put a United States sticker on it that set assembled in the United States. So people at first glance will look at it and go, oh, it's a USA product. Well, in, in all reality, it's not. It's everything is made overseas. And then it was assembled in the United States. So yeah, that's pretty, that's pretty slick. I don't care for that. It makes me wonder though,

56:53like I know you're a big user and a big fan of the acorn cruncher. I mean, no, I don't, like, where's where that's made? Yeah, I don't know. I'm guessing I was probably made in some dude's backyard. I'll be honest, I'm using two two liter bottle caps. That's how that's how he made them. So, you know, from, but what I'm getting at here is, okay, so we have two of the most elite camel brands with Koo U and Sitka, right? And they cost the most money and they're made overseas, but at the same time, they're, and I've had my hands on Koo U and I've had my hands and have worn Sitka, and they are some of the highest caliber. I mean, the best manufactured, you can just look and hold these products. Now, there's other products like Huntworth out there that are very close to Sitka. And they're very close to Koo U. They're not, they're not 100% the way there, but they're very close

57:57and about 50% of the cost. So, I feel like those types of brands are catching up just from sure volume of the clothing they sell just because of the price point. Yeah, I was going to mention Huntworth. I think Forlo is another sort of hunting company that's touted really big time made in the USA technical clothing. And there's a lot of options out there. I don't know about like Numa. I know they're out of Texas, but I don't know where their products are made, but I know Forlo, For a Fact is made in the USA. So, if that's really important to folks that are out listening, then I would encourage them to look at that company. One thing that I know this is kind of off topic of Made in America at this point, but one thing that I would really like to look into is direct to consumer and how direct to consumer impacts. So, if you compare all these products,

58:59right? And one of them was sold in a in a chain store and the reason that companies say direct to consumer is so they can they can use the line. We're cutting out the middle man, right? We're not our retail price isn't going to have to be marked up because we have to make our margins. And so does the retailer. They have to make their margins. So, we're cutting out. But one thing that I've noticed on some of these these direct to consumer companies is that the prices are still this like are roughly the same. So, they're just making bigger margins, right? So, what they've done is they usually what happens is they come into they come into the industry. They say they're direct to consumer. They start with products that are lower, right? They start with products that are lower price. But then eventually they to make more money and to make more profit, they're they're bringing that

1:00:06retail price point closer to the their competitors price points that are just sold in retail locations. So, they're just basically making bigger a bigger dollar amount. But still saying they're cutting out the middle man. But that's great that you're cutting out the middle man. But if your margins are still bigger, then you're not you're not helping out the consumer like you say you are. Well, I think Dan, I think everybody wants to be a yeti type company where you sell a you know, high-end product because there's no you know, every one of these companies that we talk about is a for-profit company, right? And they have to decide like how do we make the highest margins? And so you look at like a yeti and obviously yeti innovated the cooler space. But they but yeti does what really they do so well is marketing. And it's like well, we can make more money if we promote ourselves as high-end like high-end broadhead or high-end whatever hunting product as

1:01:11opposed to competing on price, you know, at the other end of the market. So we get we're going to spend more we're going to invest more on marketing than these other companies. And therefore, we're going to carve out a space in the in the hunter's mind that oh, this is you know, the yeti. This is the thing that from a status standpoint, this you know, camel pattern sets me apart, makes me look like, you know, the hunters that I see on YouTube, the hunters that I see on Instagram. And I'm part of that club. And it's that tribalism that we've talked about, the emotions that we've talked about. And so it really it's so important that us as consumers take that time to pull back and say what is it that we really want to accomplish here? You know, do we need to the status symbol and do we need to to spend more money to be part of that club? I mean, I mentioned broadheads. I mean, if you say anything bad about iron-will broadheads online on a forum, you'll get 15

1:02:12guys that think you're a moron. I mean, it's really and you know, that is those broadheads are the most they're like $33 ahead. Like I was showing you the rage broadheads and or the rage knockoff said, you know, they're like 24 of them or I get six six of them for 25 bucks. You know, it's $33 for one iron-will broadhead. And but that he has positioned that product and it's a great product. No, don't get me wrong. It is like it's you know, it's made of A2 tool steel. Like it's a it's a screwdriver in terms of its composition. Right. And I have some problems with with that type of steel but I won't get into that but they've positioned it themselves as sort of the Yeti and therefore guys are willing to spend more but they're also part of that club now. Yeah. And so as a company, I think that you have to decide which path are we going or we're going to spend more on marketing

1:03:14and in a solid product but more on marketing to position ourselves as the Yeti or are we going to compete on price and that's up race to the bottom in some ways. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. Break through the busiest time of year with the brand new Peloton cross-training tread plus powered by Peloton IQ. With real-time guidance and endless ways to move, you can personalize your workouts and train with confidence. Helping you reach your goals in less time. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push and go. Explore the new Peloton cross-training tread plus at onepeloton.com. I don't know man. It just, here's the thing though about the hunting, the hunting industry. Right. Everybody's marketing for coolness. Everybody's saying our products better than this, you know, our products the best, give our product a try. I don't give a shit. What brand do you wear? What broadhead you shoot? You will never become a better hunter

1:04:15based off of your gear. Period. I don't give a shit if you're wearing like a swimming suit into the into the tree stand. Products will not make you a better hunter. Period. And so like if you're going to be real and honest about everything, it doesn't matter what your gear is. I mean, yes, some gear is manufactured better. But at, you know, under, I'll even just say 30 yards depending on depending on your setup. And I know there's so many things that we could, we know we could unroll and unpack and and keep continuing. But as a bow hunter, if you shoot a deer at 20 yards, I don't give a shit. What broadhead you're using? It's going to, and you put it in their lungs, and you put it in their heart in the vitals that deer will die. I don't care. Right. I don't care what your arrow set up. I don't care if you're wearing a clown suit in the tree stand. If you stay

1:05:19still and you're not jumping around like a maniac, you're going to, there's a chance you could get a shot at a deer. And so take that with a grain of salt. I'm very serious about my gear. I'm very serious how I make my decisions. But I will like at the end of the day, blue jeans, flannels, like, Camel wasn't even a thing for hunters until the end of World War II, I believe it was. Right. Nobody wore camouflage out in the woods until all of these vets came home from World War II. Didn't have anything to do. So they all started hunting, wearing their fatigues. And that's where Camel was kind of kind of invented. As far as the, the, the Camel that we see today. So yeah, I, I, it sounds like you're challenging me to wear a USA made clown suit. And Dan, I'll be honest with you, it might be a bridge too far, but I'll see what I can do.

1:06:24So you got a shoot at China made, brought head in an American made clown suit. Things are getting interesting. Things are getting interesting over here. Oh gosh. So outside of that, man, we've been talking about almost an hour now. Anything else that we need to unpack as far as made in America products and overseas. And now let me, let me ask you that, let me tell you this. Yeah. I believe crispy boots are made in Italy. Yes. One of the highest quality boots there are. So, so the fact that I feel like a lot of it depends on category. If it's soft goods, I don't know if boots are considered soft goods, but like clothing and stuff like that. If it's made in Italy or if it's made, I have a pair of pants. They were not cheap from Fall Hall Raven.

1:07:25I think their Norway or Denmark is where the, their manufactured very high quality. Those are for mountain climbers, very high quality pair of pants. And so I have a pair of those. I have crispy boots made in Italy, very high quality product. So just because something's not made in America, it doesn't mean that the quality is going to suffer. Yeah, I would agree. I think there's there's a rifle crap. I can't remember what's that. What's that? Benelli. They're made in Italy. Italy and in Bergara, I think it's made in Spain. Okay. I think that's a rifle. I think that might be missing that name. But no, I would agree with you, Dan. I think there's some definitely some companies out there that are making really good products. And I know we sort of pick on Asia, China, those sorts of things. But like when it comes to Italian boots, there's no, you know, you mentioned

1:08:25stereotypes. That stereotype is there for a reason. I mean, boots, shoes, you know, out of Italy, generally, you know, they've been doing that for a long time and they're generally experts at it. So I would agree. Yeah, I have a couple pair of crispies. I've now, I will say I've replaced the insoles. The insoles are like paper thin, but but yeah, they're absolutely awesome boots. And I I wore a pair of, uh, uh, wrap. I can't remember the evo, but they were a lot less expensive and more disposable. And I regretted it. And now I'm, you know, wearing these crispies. And I'm really pleased with their performance, especially as it relates to just like the waterproofing dynamic. Like it's, I haven't had any issues with my feet getting wet. So yeah, solid products. Yeah, absolutely. Anything else before we shut her down? Any final thoughts? No, you know, I think it's just, again, it's on us as consumers to not get bought into these, um, it give into our emotions,

1:09:30to buy based on tribalism. It's really important that we take a hard look at, at, you know, the performance, the value, the innovation at a product category. And, you know, Dan, I appreciate you having me on. I continue to sort of put content out there, focusing on value performance on, on my YouTube channel, which is Jay, uh, Coons, Hunts, and, um, you know, on my Instagram feed, which is the same moniker. And, um, but yeah, I appreciate the conversation, and I appreciate you having me on. Absolutely, man. We'll definitely do it again. And, um, I appreciate your time. And if I don't talk to you before season starts, good luck in that clown suit and good luck with that Amazon Broadhead, man. Yes, thanks, man. I appreciate it. I'll, I'll let you know how it goes.

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