Huntavore - Goin’ on a Bear Hunt with Mitch Shirk

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2:05One platform, not a patchwork of stitched together tools and gaps. Don't wait for the next attack. Secure and accelerate your business at rubric.com. Again, rubric.com. Welcome to the Hunt of War Podcast, powered by sportsmen's empire, where we celebrate the hunting and fishing lifestyle through the utilization and consumption of our wild game. No-egos, fork and hand, beer and the other. No status. If he's a red meat on a hot grill and turning into a burn offering, just catch it, cut it, cook it. Well, hey folks. Beautiful evening here in Michigan. I mean, I don't think we're going to be getting

3:13any more sunsets past eight o'clock. I think that was, at least it was set on the news the other day that we were giving up the last little bit of light there at eight o'clock. So we are into autumn. We are full swing. We're midway through September. I tell you what, September is gone really fast in my household. I'm sure it's going just as fast as it is in everybody else's. But we're going to be looking ahead. We're actually going to be doing a, I guess, a scouting mission on our own. I have on my guide and good friend, Mitch, Mitchel Shirk from the Pennsylvania Woodsman podcast. I have him on this evening. Long story short, he was gracious enough to open up and invite the hog group out to

4:13to hunt bear. I don't want to say it's been the first time you've mentioned it a couple times, Mitch. And I kept having to say I can't, I can't. It's tough to do that at that time of year. Well, we made it happen. Stars aligned. Mitch, you are on the HunterWord podcast to talk about bear hunting in New Jersey. What were the odds you were giving me that I was actually going to go on this trip, Mitch? When you first launched it up, how confident were you in that I could finally pull something together? Well, for the longest time, I just thought that your beautiful wife just had you cinched so tight around you're the groin that that leash just wasn't going to be left long enough. But I was sadly mistaken. Apparently, the chances were better. But you're the first guinea pig to actually accept it. I've offered it to the group and everybody keeps turning me down. And I

5:14thought, all right, hey, I'll just hog all these bears all to myself. But Nick wanted in, man, I I'm genuinely excited that you're coming. I'm so glad I get the opportunity to to share this hunt with you. Somebody that never got to experience it. My wife is a little bit happy because she knows that I'm going to let you pull the trigger first. So that means I might not shoot one and she would love that because she gives me grief every time I bring another one home. But we got three days to hunt. And I'm hoping to put you on something early and see what the rest of the weekend has to my goodness. What what a tree we've got. So I've got so many questions, Mitch. Before we do jump into bear, though, I know this has been an ongoing joke with the two of us. Uh, you know, so do you have another do you have another person on the show today? Is there another guest on the show today? Is he going to come out and join us? He hasn't called in. Oh,

6:16is that about to happen? He hasn't called in yet. He might be downstairs. He might be checking out. Has he ever come on to your show before? He has not. Um, Oh, you've deprived your guests of him. I have. I'm waiting for the perfect like time. Uh, folks, we're we're talking about Mr. Tom. Be it. We're talking about Tommy. Tommy times. Um, he he showed up the other day just happy as a clam. The dude. So I, I got my 10 point buck. Let's just recap this. I got my 10 point buck, uh, Michigan 10 point. He's got like a split main beam on one side, real gnarly, gritty looking deer. Uh, and I made the choice, or I should say Tommy made the choice and had that deer shoulder mounted. Uh, actually went with

7:17a shoulder pedestal from what I've been told by my taxidermist. Um, it gives a little bit more of the shoulder profile and allows you to really have the head come up high and turn. And that's that's the look I really like. Anyway, had that done. So yeah, this Saturday, Tommy got the call and he got to go pick up the hunt to board 10 point Michigan buck. Uh, I'm not going to lie. I I had a lot of fun doing that bitch. Um, what was the phrase? I was just telling you earlier, like you can't eat the antlers, but dang they really are, uh, they really are funny looking. Well, they sure are. And I mean, like you shot multiple bucks in your life, but this deer is a deer. You were proud enough to put on the wall and you get to admire. And it's not being selfish and gloating. It's just the reality that you get to enjoy that memory and

8:18peace of creation a little bit more. So I think that's really, really cool. And that's why I love hanging a bucket I shoot on the wall or a bear or whatever. The problem is I'm running out of wall space. I might have to hire a contractor soon. When you have to put it out, you've also did you finished your basement? You were putting that beautiful planking up there. How many, only deadheads do you have down there in the basement already? Have you filled up the basement? So I haven't filled it. I've been back and forth in the right way to do this because I finished the product and my wife tells me that it can't be a dead zoo downstairs, that it has to be subtle and not tacky. So I was trying to decide, do I go all in and just put everything up when she is not home and she just comes home to it and grumbles about it for a week and then gets over it? Or do I slowly just surely just introduce new things little by little and get her response?

9:19And I've been going with the ladder. So right now I've got two of my bare-roads downstairs. I've got my turkey mount there. I hung my flintlock muzzle loader over the fireplace. I got some furz hanging on the wall. I do not have any of my shoulder mount downstairs yet. I just have one European mount sitting on top of an old decorative box of Peters shotgun shell cartridges. One of those old boxes I used to come in. I got it from my grandfather for decorative purposes and have it sit in there. But I have envisioned where the deer heads are going to go. I'm just waiting for the opportune time to pounce. Like this. I too have been trying to find the opportune time to pounce. The only problem is we're going from nothing. The hardest first leap is to get one in a living space.

10:20This is something my wife has not had to deal with. I have been European mount all the way up until 2023. That's the first shoulder mount. That was the eight point. Thus far he was cast to the basement almost immediately. He's in my podcast room. A little under construction right now. So I've moved back out of there for a little bit. But anyway, he's hanging in there with my hunting gear that's all put away. And I really want to introduce him up into the house, the living area. The problem is it's like that first hump is that it's very stark. It's very like dang. It went from nothing to everything all the ones. So 2019 I won on an elk hunt. I was fortunate enough. I shot up beautiful six by six bull. And it was one of those animals that I just said, I don't care what it costs. I am getting a shoulder mount of this thing. This is freaking awesome. And my wife knew. And she was one of those

11:25where she was like, really, but she didn't complain with me. So the time goes by and when it gets mounted and gets all finished up and tax terms calls me, it was semi on purpose. But semi just by the stars aligning, I went and picked this up when she was not home. Now we already had it planned out that it was going to be going in my foyer. I have a by-level house. So my foyer, I was the biggest wall in the best wall for my elk to go at the time. She had no idea how big an elk shoulder mount was going to be and how much it was going to take up in the foyer. So when I went to pick it up and knew she wasn't going to be home, I called my dad and said, yo, get over here. Help me hang this quick. So I don't have to hear her complain in the process. And she'll just come home to it. And when she walked in the door and saw it hanging there, oh my word, what a carrying on that was. It's hysterical. Oh my goodness. My first house was a by-level house. And I can already see that

12:29would it be over the stairs going down? Is that what you're calling your foyer? Is like when you walk in the main entrance, it is. It's like a very tall, wide, open blank space. A, it's going to be hard for kids or anybody to grab onto it. And it'd be, yeah, that's the only bit of square footage. You can really put those in that spot. No, that's a great spot for it. That's what I thought to. And it's grown on her as time has gone past. Gotcha. Well, that's what I'm hoping that things start to grow on at least a little bit more. And then I'm able to put a few items here in there. I think like you said, I just got to wait for her to be gone. And she's gone. And I throw it up. She's not going to want to damage the wall. She doesn't know how heavy it is because she hasn't touched it or how brittle. Like she's, I'm hoping that she has a little bit of what I want to say caution and even trying to touch it. So it's like, if I put it up, it'll be hard for her to then take it down. All you've got to do is do it at an opportune time when she is most pleased with

13:32you for one. And then number two, you got to just be yourself to the point where you can't allow the complaining to get to you. If you can stick it out for a length of time, she'll just give up. That's like how I got my wife, right? I pinned her down because I just nagged her religiously until she just gave in. And now here we are 10 years later. Got persistence. I like this. If you just stick to it, make your decisions and stick to your guns. It's not going to go anywhere. Well, as you were mentioning, here's our segue, is we're going to go, you had the bear pelt's downstairs. Is that how you've mounted most of your bear that you've gotten? Because you've got not only New Jersey bear, but Pennsylvania bear. Do you keep them separate? Do you do different things with them? Does one rolled up or they both flat out? Yeah, I mean, you get to a point with bear

14:35and it's like how many of them do you want to do something with? It just begets to be so much. Because they take up so much space. First, when I ever got, I got a rug and that was my pride position from the time I was 13 years old on. And then I shot one years later that was a really big, sour, beautiful coat. And I just had it in my head. I couldn't not get another rug because it was so pretty. Well, I realized pretty quickly that two rugs take up a lot of space. And then the last few I've shot, I haven't done anything with them other than skin flesh, get them tan and have the hide to kind of show people or put over a chair or something like that. I was wanted to get a life size or half life size, but number one, I don't have the space. Number two, it's getting more and more expensive. And number three, it's like, do I really need to? I'm kind of at the point in my life now where I still love, you know, taxidermy,

15:40amounts of all my memories and stuff, but do I really need another one? Probably not. I just want it. So yeah, I've done, it's mostly just, I still have one in my freezer that I still didn't finish cleaning and get to the tannery. It's all my to-do list. Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, because I'm hoping, I'm praying that I get to make one of these choices where that I'm going to be able to say, you know what, this new Jersey rug is pretty sweet stuff. Do I need another one? I don't know if I do, but this one, this one is special. At least that's, that's how I'm taking it. Rub your knot. We are going to end up having an incredible time. Lay a little bit of the groundwork for us, Mitch. I'm flying out to you and then we're not going to be in Pennsylvania. We're actually continuing on to New Jersey. I've mentioned this to a couple people and they're like, when I think New Jersey, I do not think surplus of bear. Talk to us a

16:41little bit about how is it that for someone like here in Michigan, not knowing a whole lot about Jersey, but hearing like it's not part of New York City. There's a whole section of Jersey that we're just not open to at this point. Yeah, when you think of New Jersey, you think of who of those clowns that had this show? My gosh, Paulie and everything else, who the heck were those clowns that were so popular in MTV. D. Listen, butthead. No, no, there was, I can't remember their freaking names, but there was some MTV show years ago with these, they talk like this and they're really annoying. You think of that. You think a wildwood crest in Stone Harbor and New Jersey in the beach and things like that. You think the outskirts of New York City, but that's a small part and that's the southern half of New Jersey. You get into the northern part

17:41of New Jersey. It's pretty large. It is a beautiful state. There's a lot of beautiful country, woods, fog country. There's a lot of really, really neat history there as far as buildings and towns and stuff like that. There's a lot of well kept stuff in that record. There's a lot of public land. There's a lot of hunting opportunity. The thing with New Jersey is north-eastern Pennsylvania into New Jersey has some very, very thick dense swamp land. It is primo habitat for bears. Number one, you got awesome habitat and everything else there. The other reason that New Jersey has such a dense bear population is it is a very, very heavy anti-hunting bear state as many people can relate to throughout the country. There's so many states that have

18:42outlawed hound hunting or bait hunting or they've cut spring seasons out west. There's some states that I think I'm hearing are threatening to do away with bear hunts in the general. Jersey was one of those states where there was stipulations and regulations or cutoffs of seasons and it was closed for a while. I was going to say that made the news circuit for a good year was all about New Jersey canceling bear. It got reopened via emergency action because the population of the human conflict had increased so much. They got a new bear management plan and this is the fourth season under that new bear management plan but I started going down when that happened. I've always bear hunted in Pennsylvania. I've been successful but bear hunting in Pennsylvania and New Jersey the way we've been doing it is a little bit different and it required

19:47me to learn some new things and try some new things. It was a new journey the way I was hunting them and doing it. It's been a lot of fun. Good deal. With those stipulations too we felt that in Michigan. Well, I shouldn't say I feel like it's a lottery system here in Michigan and we have a study population of bear. In fact, I think you got to put in for several years before you can get your bear tag in Michigan. I should have done my homework ahead of time. I can't remember if we can do dogs or not but I know like a lot of spots in central lower peninsula. It is just so thick that unless you ran dogs unless you baited you weren't going to get anywhere near these bears. You were never going to even know that they were there because if I'll think it can be in that brush

20:49they just get down and deep and they hear you coming and they're going to be out of there before it is. It's like you needed that extra bit to get in order to get on these bears. You're talking swap land, you're talking northern New Jersey and Eastern Pennsylvania being real swapy. Is that kind of like the similar dynamic we're going to have? We're looking at real thick brush or is it kind of open timber where we're going to be able to see for a little ways? There's a lot of mixes Nick. Like I said, this is the fourth year going down there and I have been in multiple WMAs and even some private and been through a lot of different terrains and stuff like that and I've got some diversity across the places that I have but I have learned the greatest density of bears that I have found and then even some of those larger bears too,

21:49you're going to find them in the vicinity of swamp land. Even if we're not directly in the cat tails and the frags on these isolated islands, narrow trails or whatever, even if we're not in the heart of that, we're going to be really close to that. We're going to be adjacent to it as that relates to the area. I look for a lot of things to try to funnel movement and keep in mind a lot of the food sources that are available plus what I'm doing and try to put a piece of a puzzle together. Gotcha. Now, what do you think is drawn into the wetland? Is it just the scarcity of people or is it thickness or is something hidden at that moment? Especially as they're getting ready getting down for winter, what's the food source that's keeping them in that area or in those swampier grounds? I mean, you were just talking earlier with us and maybe I'm giving it a way saying

22:52that you put out the tasty cakes for them. They're there for the tasty cakes. We get that, but one of their food source is getting opened up that they're migrating and on. Sure. Number one, I can't answer this for certain, but they just love swamps. They don't know not afraid to get wet. Throughout the summer and the heat months, you could be 90-something degrees out and you get into some of those wetlands, bogs and stuff and you step into those low spots and it'll be 10 degrees cooler. They love that. The other thing too is it's not impenetrable, but I have been in some situations where you look at going through it and you think only a bear could go through that and they don't mind going through some of those places. There's a lot of safety and security there and it's just easily navigable. I think the habitat is a feel thing, it's a security thing. It's a lot of that going on. As far as food,

23:56there's a couple of things that I'm typically looking for and I keep learning more and more. So kind of backtrack a little bit. I cut my teeth bare hunting in the mountains of Pennsylvania. So northern central Pennsylvania, not a lot of swamp land, but big, heavy mountains, thick cover, and you were hunting in November and the main food sources you were hunting was nuts, not producing trees, looking for big groves of acorns and rough rocky steep terrain, thick terrain and they were going to be hiding in that and looking for the cool spots in the valleys and coolies adjacent to the food. That's how I hunted them. Now I'll come over to New Jersey and the the food diversity is there's nuts but there's a lot of other things too. So the first thing I'm looking for is the acorns, the hickory nuts. I learned that bears eat walnuts and I've seen them actually target walnut trees which is mind boggling to me but there's a ton of berries. They're

25:03actually eating New Jersey and the eastern part of the country has a ton of invasive brush and it's really low quality food but the mile a minute, autumn all of honey suckle they produce berries and most of the bears that we have harvested have a gut filled with those. Now I don't know is that because there's a lack of other food or if they just like eating them but you're going to see out there's there's a lot of browsing they do and then it's no secret there's a lot of crop land. They they're very damaging creatures they're going to corn they're going to pumpkins they're going to all sorts of the apple groves and stuff like that and they're also not afraid to get into people's trash. I mean people have to lock down their trash cans and dumpsters and things like that. So there's so many food sources in and amongst the the number one good swamp land habitat which is hard to get them at first places but it's surrounded by people and human activity and they've grown

26:07accustomed to being near that and that's why the conflicts are so high because they've just learned to adapt with the food sources that people are providing as well. So a lot of food going on. Gotcha yeah I mean I it's funny to think about just the human element how a bear could even be fixated on and just be like I don't even need to go chase down I don't even have to go find anything I know exactly where I can get it I can be in a in this dude's corn crib and wreak havoc up there and it's you know you think about all you knocking over a few trash cans and stealing some scrap but like no this this thing could get into corn cribs these things are powerful enough to shoot take whatever little structure you've got and just open that up and get whatever you've been trying to protect inside so man yeah it's kind of like they're they're corn a coping of there they can just be in anything that they want to be. They really kept are you seeing yeah are you seeing a lot of them like if we're out there

27:10are we gonna see a salad with cubs as she's still rearing them at that point or at this is this point they're they're gonna be kicked off and so we're gonna have to we're gonna have basically a spread of not only sows in heat but are we gonna have cubs just kind of willy nilly all about. So you're gonna see a multitude of things you're gonna see sows with cubs in fact some of the cameras I've been running I have a salad to cubs working through the one area that I have on camera right now but typically from my experience sows will have their cubs for about two years they'll they'll let them go the second year I don't know if it's the way they ovulate you know they're their breeding season is made in June so they are that's already okay yep breeding seasons over so now you're going into the fall and they're packing on the weight so a sal that has her first year cubs I believe is gonna go into heat and get bred and then she'll boot those cubs and

28:14and she'll have her next her next round of cubs in the den the following year I don't know how many of the bear actually den in New Jersey because food is so ample you know I think they I know they slow down they don't move as far but I found places where they don't you know you think of a den you think of like a hole or a log or they they dig something out and they truly go in in in a den I've seen places where they just kind of crawling between rocks and just later I've seen that before so there's there's still bears moving around in December in January at times because of the food sources but you know you're gonna see sows of cubs and the problem bears which is the bears that people like Mitchell and Nick are awesome for for New Jersey is those those two year old bears it's the first year away from mom and there are 150 pounds and they just wreak havoc on everything they're

29:14they're moving a lot they are creating the most human conflicts and problems and to be frank they're delicious those are the ones that people that are managing the hunt want to see get shot but New Jersey is known for big bears and I am not I'm not telling you guaranteed we're gonna have big ones frequeting but every year I have bear on camera that without a shadow of a doubt my mind are four to six hundred pounds and it's it happens every year and there's multiple so you know there's a there's a variety there's a high density you know people think a bear hunting and it depends on where you come from or what experiences you have but like in Pennsylvania I shot a bear the second year I ever went lucky now when I bear hunting Pennsylvania we make drives we get together with a group of guys and we make drives you're not allowed to hunt with dogs you're not allowed to bait in Pennsylvania so I shot a bear when I was 13 years old I didn't see another bear for another

30:19seven years and that's that's the reality of it now there's nuances to that and I don't need to bore you with some of that because I've learned a lot more and I've increased how many I've seen over time because I've gotten a little bit better but the reality of it is you don't see them that often and if we have a group of 18 guys and we hunt for two days with them if we shoot two bear that is a really really good successful hunt with 18 people the first year that I went archery bear hunting in New Jersey I saw ten bear the first day holy smokes crazy crazy density also just as you're saying it to let's just wrap our head around the number of four to six hundred pounds we're talking like you're you're no slouch of our human being what are you two what do you say two 50 Zoe said down the camp what are you saying I think I I think I stepped on the scale the other morning I was 238 but that rounds up to 250 well even 238 and you are you you would be a decent

31:25size bear and that's not even the top of where it can go at the same time you we're talking about you're saying 150 pound two year old essentially this these two year old cubs that are running all over the place trying to knock those down that's a good sized deer here in Michigan 150 pounds absolutely that's you're going to drag that sucker out there that's going to be a worthwhile deer and here this is this is the problem is a bunch of 150 pound a bunch of literal teenage sized teenagers running wreaking havoc on the countryside so holy smokes this is this is getting real much we're in we're not yeah we're not no slouches here at this point or at least I'm not this is just no like fun walk through the woods this is legit it's definitely legit um now I'm looking forward to a lot of it you have the the size bears so you're going to get to meet Jason Jason's one of the guys in camp I just had recorded a bear hunting episode with him

32:32last week and it's going to be on my show next week as we're recording this and he told the story of the bear he killed last year he killed a bear in the second season in New Jersey that weighed 524 pounds field dressed so it was estimated at 600 pounds live weight and it is a whole new class of animal it really is but it's super exciting when you're when you know you're in the presence of the woods and you know when you think about deer hunting you know you'll be you're used to hunt no grids and stuff like that and you know you hear something you go as squirrels at a deer then you can distinguish oh that's a deer those are the footsteps I can hear them coming and here in New Jersey there's times in the settings you will sometimes hear them but I cannot tell you how many times you will have your head on a swivel and you take your your focus off for just a moment and you check your phone or you you go in your pack you get a sip of water or you do whatever

33:34and you turn your head to the left and a bear is just standing there 20 yards I can't tell you how many times they have just snuck in like that there's such ghosts throughout that setting they just sneak so well and what an adrenaline rush it is it can be boring at times you're not seeing a lot you're not seeing a lot and then all of a sudden boom there's a bear and it's right there it happens so quick and it's so exciting and we're going to be chasing them with muscle loaders um I get one shot Mitch how let's say I miss it's is it all of a sudden we're switching the rolls where the hunter is becoming the hunted at this point I do know that bears are more scared of us than we are of them but at the same time I don't think I'm gonna be this will be the closest I've ever been to a bear and I'm gonna have to say fear is going to be a description that I give I think when this happens

34:40how real is that fear well it's it's always good to have some level of fear I mean being having a healthy level of fear but um I don't have a lot of fear for them um it's from the sense of that they're gonna come after me uh you shooting a gun uh you're not gonna have a bear come after you barring barring a a freak thing but I've never seen it uh the almost never hear about it the only time I've had one time in my life where I got nervous and that was the first time I had went down there scouting it was in the summertime and I had walked up through this real thick nasty stuff and got to the edge of this cornfield when I got to the cornfield I chased a sal with two or three cubs she was 25 30 yards in the corn and she just took off running the opposite way and it was really cool I actually got my phone out video did wow I just saw a couple bear how exciting and 15

35:41seconds went by after they went into the thick stuff and she came back out of the thick stuff turned and started walking right at me now that freaked me out because my reaction was south with cubs is about the only thing I'm nervous that something is gonna come after me and she turned and came right after me I yelled at her and she just turned and ran back in and I think what happened was I made a lot of noise getting to that field edge and they heard me so she just ran she called the cubs back to her they found her she got them to safety and once she did she came back out to see what it was and I you know it was it was no concern but it is a it's definitely a concern to get in between the south cubs but I mean I've been the last couple years I've been 10 yards from them and it's just I just watch them that's just so cool that I'm excited I'm really excited for that just even the again we're referencing something on social media um the story that you posted where

36:44you were actually down scouting this area and bear actually it exhales and so it has like a little bit of like mist come out of its nose and then it steps up on the log and then you know turns towards you taking the video so so cool how that was and it's like to experience to experience that I hope to experience that in real life it's just to see these critters move about their their daily um yes I I do have a healthy fear in the fact that it's again this is a brand new species I recognize how powerful they are I recognize how strong they are how resilient they are and I think that's where my uh wearingness comes from but at the same time like it's not a wearingness of this thing's just a you know complete monster it's more or less like I don't have any experience with this and to see right what you refer to as this ghost that would just come in barely noticeable on the ear and

37:49to see it move about its natural habitat like that is that is so exciting at this point I am I'm definitely excited to see that happen so you were talking earlier and asking some questions about food and food sources and habitat and stuff and what like I said earlier I grew up not baiting bear I just woodsmanship and hunting bear and New Jersey is a bait state you were allowed to go to tractor supply and pick up a 50 pound bag of corn and drive to the nearest WMA and hold your bone one hand in your corn bag in the other hand and dump it and sit over it if you want I mean that is 100% legal now with the bear hunting you're legally not allowed to sit within a bait site within 100 yards 300 feet so that makes it a challenge legally if you had an efficient weapon and you could see your bait at 101 yards you legally could shoot a bear from everything I've talked to

38:49and read that is legal but you can't be sitting over top of the bait so what I have done in these areas in that area you scouted number one I want to areas that I first of all have experience with and know there's a good population of bears but then from there I'm doing the same things I do with deer hunting I'm looking for terrain I'm looking for wind advantage I'm looking for access I'm looking for a lot of things that would lend well to hunting them and then it would also lend well to some potential natural movements but once I do that bait is kind of like an icing to the cake it's a way for me to get some inventory see what's coming into that area that's just like a food plotter a scrape on a deer hunt you know you're hunting this area and you're not hunting the camera but having the camera knowing whatever buck is in that area that you're targeting it's helpful to have so I'm running three spots I figured between you and I I'm probably not even going to sit at a

39:52bait until or in the vicinity of a bait until you you get a bear because what I want to happen is let's say Nick sits in an area and you get an opportunity and something happens and it doesn't go the way we want my hope is to have two fallbacks that we can swap out and go to another spot the other the reason why I run three is I want different wind advantages so there's nothing worse than putting all your eggs into one basket and having this spot these bears are coming religiously and it gets time to hunt and the wind is blowing exactly where they're going to come from and you have no other options and a lot of times I've known people to say well I'm just going to hunt it and see what happens and that's usually not been successful for me so what I have is a few spots that we can sit with multiple different wind directions so we have a place to hunt regardless of what happens when you come in there and then of course we're going to use the cameras that with around the bait in the inventory but we're going to use those cameras use the inventory and I'll be able to see where bears

40:56are going to and coming from and we're going to set up on those access trails leading to and from that and we're still going to have some other natural movement within those spots but it's just one more piece to try to help get a bear because you know you can miss an opportunity at a bear by a few yards because it's just the trail they take in the direction they go because they are just ghosts and they can disappear so quickly. With these bears being such ghosts and now we're trying to pinpoint one like you just said you're going through your inventory and it could be yeah a fraction of a few degrees and a few yards and we're going to miss this bear completely just in our vision. Let's say we get a bead on one I'm putting I'm putting the crosshairs on the side of this bear where am I actually really trying to put the crosshairs on this bear because deer's in different makeup, bears different we've experienced that with hogs,

41:59shoot sometimes it's not even worth going for the vials because of a how pin down like when we opened up those pigs that heart is pinned or ate against that sternum it's I mean it's low to the ground as it can possibly be so protected we were shooting underneath the ear. Deer broadside yeah you put it you know just like everybody has taught us you know right behind the shoulder but now where do you do that with the bear is it a similar setup is it further back as you're coaching me as I'm putting that crosshair on the bear where is that spot going to be? So this is probably anybody that's a bear hunter this might ruffle some feathers I don't care this is just my opinion there's a saying in the bear hunting world they saw you aim for the middle of the middle and I am still trying to figure out what the hell that means it doesn't make any sense to me because if you think about the middle of the middle when you're looking at a broadside

43:04so the middle of the middle would would lean me towards if this is the front legs this is the back legs and this is the torso I'm going to go middle middle so that puts you right in the liver now liver's a lethal shot but I tell people don't do a lot different with especially with a firearm but you're you're hunting with a muzzleloader which is going to be shooting probably 50 caliber inline muzzleloader it's going to be shooting a 300 plus grain bullet I like heavy bullets for bears not because I need to have more power for a bear because they're harder to take down I like a heavier bullet because it maximizes my chances of getting two holes I love to have an exit hole on a bear because they just don't bleed with all the hair and the fat and if we got to go hand crawling through to cat tails and the thick stuff to trail your bear I'd much rather be trailing with two holes to find those pin drop bloods and get to your bear

44:08but my experience is if you put a good lethal shot on a bear they do not go anywhere near as far as it dear rarely do they do they just seem impossible to take down I've actually seen the opposite with bear there's a couple exceptions we've had a few that you know he seems like you shot him they're just tough boogers and stuff but 99 times out of 100 if you put a vital shot on a bear with a bow a gun anything like that they're going to go a shorter distance than the deer and they're going to die quicker than the deer has been my experience now as far as aiming for me I tell people with a gun if you go up the shoulder and you center up you were going to kill a bear every bear I've ever shot with a firearm has been on the shoulder or slightly behind the shoulder I usually tend to say just just a hair behind the shoulder you know four inches behind it but I end up hugging the shoulder and I've dropped every single one that I've shot with a gun and if you go four to six

45:09inches behind the shoulder with a bow you're going to be bright on the money within the lungs the lungs do sit back farther which I think is why people talk with a whole middle of the middle thing but I want to be dead center of the heart and lung rage and which puts you a couple inches behind the shoulder but the only thing for me that's different with a bear compared to deer is with a deer I love to aim low the heart sits pretty low in the chest cavity and the deer react to the sound of a bow shot right so they're going to load their muscles up and drop a little bit and with a bow I typically aim at the heart and even at the bottom of the heart in some some situations I don't like to hit bear low my experiences if you hit a bear low that is one of those times where you're going to have an ugly blood trail and it's going to take a long time for the bear to die but if you hit center or just a hair above center they do not go far but hopefully that answers your question

46:13well that does because I'm like you I'd like to shoot a little bit lower taken after twilight followers whole idea of the vital V you know right behind because you're going to have that the humor is actually pulls away and it opens up a spot right there in front of the heart so that's where with archery equipment at least for deer that's been my my go-to and it's been very nice to hand the deer whether it's been a buck or a rod I've had both with bucks and those where you put it right there in that spot and the deer will take a few few bounces or few bounces turn and look and then just drop right there and having the deer fall in front of me like that's that's solidified for me whether that's how people choose to do it that's that's on their own accord but at the same time that's I want it to be quick I want it to be efficient A for the animal B for B for what I'm taking off the animal here too as well but making that what I guess we would call

47:16like first third middle that seems like the great spot to set that in and to be successful as quickly as we can yeah the the vital V exists on a black bear too it's just not as pronounced because the humorous and the scapula are a lot thicker and more defined and the angles aren't as steep like with a deer I mean it's it's not 90 degrees but man it's pretty sharp the way those bones come together there's a pretty big V right there with a bear it's it's it's more like that it's it's there's a V there but it's not quite as defined it opens wide a little bit more obtuse in that regard and I think people get hung up on that with a bow and they get a little too close to the shoulder and hit bone and I that's not good when you hit a bear in the shoulder with a bow if you hit them in the shoulder with a firearm a high-powered rifle or a muzzle loader that is packing some some some punch behind it I've never had a problem in fact I encourage putting bone on it because I think

48:16they go down a lot quicker and if you can drop a bear versus having it go into the swamp and have to go up to my you know what's in muck in swamp and cat tails and frags and stuff I'm okay with that Nick. Well good well good it's it's funny how you talk about two like the heavier ammunition I have the opportunity and I do now have a three I have a 350 legend that I've put together and it's I'm still working out the kinks it's not not great for me yet and now as soon as I make this purchase and dive into it I'm finding all the things that people said like oh yeah you never do that because of all the stuff you have to work through like well great well here I am quick lesson on that but even using like a straight wall cartridge like we've gotten here in Michigan you put the liberty to use that I've I've been so successful with just a shotgun and I think it's for the same reason that you are choosing a much heavier round is a the weight of that that round

49:18is going to punch very hard and just like you said if I can put it through bone if I'm rocking that shoulder and it goes through and maybe you can rock the other one that's not going to allow that bear to even take off we're looking at a shorter distance of being able to get it not only the knock-down power of the vitals but then structurally taking those arms out in front of them it's just one more thing we can do so yeah going with the heavier round that does give me a real good sense of confidence as we're out there um but yeah also then you said like yeah we're going to have to be crawling through the through the reads and cat tails maybe at some point and it's like that's really running through the jungle there that I'm I'm pretty excited to do well I'm hoping you get an experience full circle um the guns yeah I mean there's a lot of theories like I've seen bear taken down with the equivalent of a 243 I mean that's plenty of knock-down power for a bear under 300 pounds from my experience if you put it behind the shoulder and put it into the end of vitals and you're using you know you're not using a ballistic tip bomb at bullet I mean you're using something that's

50:22you know the higher end of what you're going to shoot for that caliber gun that's a lethal cartridge if you if you if you handle it appropriately um you don't need a big 300 to take down a black bear from my experience um not not that it hurts to have um but I shot a bear with my seven mag last year and I wish that would have had the 243 because I lost more meat but anyway uh the muzzle loaders to me are different muzzle loaders do weird things I'd see muzzle loader bullets I mean you're not getting that bullet expansion right you're you're basically punching a hole through that animal some mushroom some bullets mushroom a little bit better but they get in there and they don't always they lose their their momentum quickly um sometimes the bullets break apart and uh you get into all that fat of a bear and stuff sometimes they just slow up quicker so um like the last bear the the bear I shot with my flint lock I used using a 395 grain lead bullet and um hit it in the shoulder and it came out it um you know behind its shoulder it was quartered towards me and I hit the front

51:28shoulder and it it some of it exited out the back and you know that was just what I needed in that situation it's not like it was a huge bear but uh I had no track job and I got you know good result perfect perfect we're gonna be in a setup too where we're gonna be down we've got this a or bnb we're gonna be at and we're gonna be rocking it's gonna be full house what are we talking we're talking 10 10 guys in the home yeah so uh this hunt started out myself uh Mike and Mark Jason and then Mark's son Jared it was the five of us and then uh you know it it continued to go and we find the other people that were either going on their own or you know wanted to tag along and it just was easier to get we we found this house that was was perfect for a certain size and it turned it turned into a pretty cost effective way to have a stay for an entire week I mean you're paying in

52:30a week which you'd pay in one the two nights at a hotel um so it's cool because then you get that camp camaraderie aspect you know we hunt hard we kind of do our own things but you know if somebody kills a bear um you know if you and I kill a bear we kill 150 pound bear you know we're probably gonna get it out ourselves and we'll bring it back to camp and show people but Nick if you shoot a three four five hundred pound bear um you and I are not getting that out and that's one of the fun that's one of the fun parts about the camp is you can share that with your buddies and you know if one of them shoot a three four five hundred pound bear we're probably gonna take a break from our hunt and go help them get that bear out so we can all enjoy that experience together but that just adds to it gotcha do you think there'd be much kickback if I offered just because I haven't field dressed a bear that if I stepped in said hey can I can I field dressed your bear do you think

53:32anybody would buck off to that not at all they would encourage it maybe I'm maybe I'm pigeonhole myself to do all of them and in fact if if I shoot one two you can field dress mine and it's not because I don't like field dressing but field dressing a bear and a deer are different not that it's the anatomy is different and the concept is different it's not their cartilage and everything is tougher you know you think about a deer I've got a deer in less than 30 seconds of mile you know you just make a slit you cut the diaphragm and you can yank it out and it's a very crude gut job but you can get it out that quickly and a bear you're not just gonna you're not just gonna easily make a cut and just start ripping stuff out that quickly everything's in there a lot tighter but anyway so that's good I'm gonna come definitely with blades ready to go we're gonna put a good sharp head job and I just I feel like whether I get one or not like I got to get my hands inside

54:34figure out what what does it feel like on the inside how can we clean these things up and I mean to be honest I'm down there yeah for the experience but I'm I'm looking to bring home some of this amazing table thing uh it's my favorite fact that's the the thing is is Davy Crocket wasn't necessarily after deer most of the time Davy Crocket got his start but it's with taking out bear because that was the better meat source and it is the better meat source and anybody who talks about how bears bad and you know it doesn't taste good and all this stuff it's excuses for poor handling has been my experience and I've had bear that didn't taste good there was a time I believe that but the reality of it is you know a lot of a lot of time what happens in Pennsylvania you know guy shoot a bear and some there's some people that add is a once in their lifetime endeavor and they might hunt I might grandfather hundred forty five years until he killed his first bear in Pennsylvania and so that's an exciting thing and you know people end up you know there's a there's

55:41celebration that goes with that and then you know take it to the check station and then people end up driving it all over the place and got to show the world and it might lay overnight and you think well just open the cavity up and then it'll be good till tomorrow and the reality of it is even in cold temperatures it's amazing how much that fat holds heat into that animal and I have had the logic of get the hide off of that animal and get it on ice or get it in a cooler or just just get the the fat off of it to get air to it so that it starts that chilling process and if you do that as quickly as possible I assure you black bear is fantastic me I mean I there are a few things that I would I would not put deer meat over I love deer meat I mean I love eating myself some tenderloins and I love using venison burger for all the stuff and all the other versatile things I would much rather have bear meat richness is it texture wise what do you what

56:49is what is definitely we're already talking a little bit about flavor and that fat equals flavor and that's what the bear is made for is put on fat but is there a texture element to it is an richness that really makes it makes it drive it is it's a texture flavor thing for me um you know I'm not somebody who really enjoys eating like a deer roast um it's just I I can eat a deer roast it's not my preferred way to eat venison um I would prefer a bear roast over a beef roast most of the time because it has that texture that kind of pulls apart like ham in a sense um but you can shred it up like you would make like uh you know a french dip saying what's or something like that like you you can shred it apart like that um but I find it and this is contrary to what a lot of people would would think you think about a bear you think greasy and fatty and stuff they'll get me wrong there but

57:53it's it's not like a beef it's not that marbled fatty meat that when you pull it apart it's like greasy and oily around every you know vein of muscle you know it's there's fat on the outside and it keeps the moisture locked in but when you start pulling apart the muscle groups themselves at least you know in the hind quarters if you take like a you know a top round a bottom round a bone in or a sore loin or whatever and you you make it into a roast it just seals that flavor and moisture in there and then it's this nice lean meat that's not overly greasy and stuff I just think it's it it lends well if you season it what one thing I've noticed and maybe you can you can enlighten me on this I've noticed I have to season a bear a little bit heavier than I would a beef I feel like I need to put a little bit at like one and a half times the rate like if I have a recipe for a beef roast I put like one and a half times the rate of seasoning on that

58:54bear roast just to make sure I get enough of that flavor with it but even if you did nothing to it and you just ate plain bear meat I mean you took it out and you threw it on a grill and it's still a beautiful red meat it's it's it's delicious that's so exciting um adding more seasoning to bear than beef I and the only thing that can really get me think of that right now is and it's funny because we're also in the fact of we're we're taking a bear roast which we're already saying has more fat than deer and we're comparing it to beef beef has marbling that has the fat in between the muscle fibers you're not going to get that on a deer and you're not even like an add me wise you don't even get that on a bear even bear hold that fat on the outside now you look in the bear that you did send me there was one portion that I don't know if it was legit

1:00:00or if it was actually marbling but there was there was a texture piece to that where there was muscle fiber and I think it would you know either some sort of fat deposits that were along in there but it really rendered out really nice that was the pastrami that I made from that and absolutely amazing uh cutting it against the grain worked out really well I think it comes back to that fat element of fat and equal flavor you put a bunch of salt on fat and it's going to naturally disperse it's going to even itself out along the dish so even though you may have the light we put it on there it equalizes throughout that whole piece of meat on a leaner piece that that fat highway that ability for the fat to then disperse that seasoning isn't quite as apparent even on a bear horse often leaving a fat cap leaving enough that you can let that render out the pan or render out in the

1:01:06crock pot that might help you get a little bit more of that dispersion of of your seasoning but yeah it's interesting to say like I need twice as much or even two thirds or two thirds or one third more of seasoning on on bear than you would be that's a very interesting point we'll have to we'll have to test that out well you'll have to test it out for sure that's just what I've noticed when I took one recipe my wife made and kind of we we turned it into something else she's got it down but you know I haven't explored too much one of the things that I'm hoping to learn from you I'm hoping to get Nick a bear and learn from you is I'm not a creative mind when it comes to what to do with some of the things I mean that generally what I've been doing if I'm fortunate enough to get a bear I cut as many roast sections into my bear as I possibly can and I use the trim for simple stuff like sausage and then when I get deer I get as much hamburger as I

1:02:07possibly can and I cut steaks and that way I've kind of got all cuts of meat for all types of your standard generic family dishes but you know I've been listening to so many people talk about how good bear burgers are not cut with any other meat just a bear burger season it grill it eat a burger um you know that that's one thing I haven't done and there's there's uh there's gotta be a better way to eat the backstrap then just uh searing them and then shredding them you know having them slow cook and shred you know I've heard people that eat steaks but you know to me it's still a red meat and you got to cook it to what is it 150 or 155 internal and I am one of those people that you know when I eat a beef steak or a deer steak I mean hawk its horns wipe its ass and I want to eat it I mean that's just the reality of it so for a bear

1:03:10I don't know I don't really like the idea of that but I think there's gotta be a way so I'm anxious to see the grand ideas that Nick has with this meat that I can implore on future bear hunts if I'm successful oh good because we're testing that for sure um I gotta find I gotta find the article again and it was all about time and temperature and it was interration that was the main key how long could I keep it at 155 not roast the tar out of this thing but at the same time kill the stuff that I really like that the reason I'm taking it to because essentially you really need to take it to 165 that's where it needs to finish at to get what we want killed any any sorts of parasite in there that 165 mark is where it needs to go bear it 165 like we we've talked

1:04:11about probably not the most tender piece not the most rare piece so employing some sous vide and doing long duration at a 150 at a 155 I'm sure there's a table someplace that is talked about how long it needs to stay there and that might be the route I've I've been hearing that the sous vide works amazing with bear and I think that might be what we need to do is we need to get uh Mitchell a sous vide wand so that uh he can he can do something with his back straps well then this this is I'm putting this to you you are coming Wednesday night and if you shoot one on Thursday we are going to the store and buying a sous vide perfect we just pick you up you get there like 99 bucks and we will get you we'll get you as we'll get a sous vide and we'll get that puppy cranking I'm looking forward to having Nick maybe I can fly with mine maybe I can put for a mine in the bag

1:05:16and fly it over see they'll probably confiscate I'm sure your wife wouldn't appreciate I'm sure your wife wouldn't appreciate that though well Mitch this has been sold fun thank you for this evening I would just hate to keep you so much longer we're at the tail end of our power here um but dude I am I'm jacked I am so ready we're at shoot we're at rate around 30 days we're at what the 16th 17th right now in September and yeah it'll be the 14th that I end up shipping out to you so it's going to be that's the of October so I'm stoked uh as we go along yeah I'm going to be posted a lot of stuff getting ready but to get people tuned in that you've been on the show before again where can we find you what's your handle for your podcast and yeah what's been going on in your neck with the woods over there at the Pennsylvania woodsman sure yeah Pennsylvania woodsman podcast you're going

1:06:18to find my show pretty much all the same places you're going to find Mr. Auto Show on the this Spotify Google Play iTunes that whole stuff where I'm also on the sportsman's empire network at how uh my friendship with Nick began so thank you empire and uh yeah so what do I got going on I'm finally getting some of my honeydew list type chores done and I'm starting to get into hunt mode in fact I am actually planning on having my first sit of the year tomorrow evening I'm going to take my bow I'm going down to New Jersey and I'm going to deer hunt um I I decided I found too much good deer sign and I need deer meat so I'm going hunting but for the next uh two to three weeks I'm going to be hitting it hard I'm going to probably be going down once a week to uh keep baits going and keep cameras going and make sure that um we got MRI to go into the season because

1:07:19we've got three days to do it in three days on a bear hunt isn't a lot now I know we talked about how good Jersey is and it is but you know things can happen the weather can happen um hunting pressure can happen people can come in on you on public land there's always something that could go wrong so I want to try to be as prepared as possible so a lot of that uh my weekends are going to be spent just put the final touches on it so uh that's a fun uh adventure for us to share amazing amazing and you know what if it's just three days of camaraderie I think it's still a heck of a lot of time well spent so Mitch I'm so stoked I'm going to let our listeners on oh yeah something you're going to say I was going to tell you if if the weather doesn't cooperate you can always just stay a little bit longer Pennsylvania season starts on that Saturday so we can just stay longer and we can hunt Pennsylvania for the next week there we go perfect and those

1:08:26I'm sure my sub that I have uh coming in and taking over my class so they're going to love to hear that I'm going to be gone for another week wait folks I hope you enjoyed this hour just as much as we have yeah we're going in on uncharted territory at least for myself I'm going to be going after a protein that yes I have I've gotten my hands on and I've got the chance to to cut a little bit of it and and and play with it do a recipe here and there but now to be able to go and pursue my first black bear all the emotions are there excitement nervousness a little bit of fear subtly in there uh but a lot of intrigue and a lot of just uh through excitement a and just share it with a new group of guys and to go see an old friend uh but then to just explore new ground I mean isn't that what it's about with us uh being sportsman is we're out there looking for a little bit of that uncharted

1:09:31we're well they're looking for the chance to get that feeling of yeah I'm in the wilderness I'm I'm a little bit lost and you're a little bit okay with it because you don't get that feeling every single day we chase it we pursue it we think about it all year and then here's the time that it shows up so yeah we're going to encapsulate that excitement into a bunch of practice to be able to sharpen our focus with that muzzle loader to put it where we need to on that bear back one third right up through the middle that's where we're going to send the shot and then in return celebrate this whole adventure with a meal hopefully around a big table of dudes sharing uh a bit of the harvest getting ahold of that uh that liver I think I can't think of anything better than maybe even to try to do an old deer camp favorite and transform it into bear camp where we do a little bit of liver and onion I think that would just be an awesome send off

1:10:34for an awesome weekend of bear hunt so folks whether it's preparing for your deer hunt in your particular state or your particular species that you're going after or if it's like me and I'm itching to field dress somebody else's bear just to get the experience make sure that the plane you are using is varied shot kitchen and bathroom professionals know what goes behind the tile matters that's why trade pros trust fiber cement party backer board to keep tile firmly in place resist cracking and help block moisture chosen in over 40 million kitchens and bathrooms party backer board what the best build on shop now at participating home depot lows and floor into core stores for more information visit jameshardy.com slashhardybacker