From In the Dark: The Journey

0:00This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. Pop over to Progressive.com, answer some questions, and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit Progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. National average 12 months savings of $946 by new customer surveyed who's saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary. The New Yorker Radio Hour is sponsored by Clean My Mac. You know those days when you have 23 tabs open, three versions of the same spreadsheet, and a desktop that's a jumble of saved documents? It's easy to see that as a mess, but it's actually a sign of thinking, evidence of real work, not something to be ashamed of. It doesn't need to be cleaned up. What does need cleaning is the junk the system creates on its own.

1:02That's what Clean My Mac is for. It leaves files untouched and clears only the system cache, broken downloads, and leftover clutter from updates that go unnoticed. One click on Clean Up and it's handled. And your work stays exactly where you left it. Clean My Mac maps out what's actually using up storage, so there's no guesswork involved. Keep your mess clear the junk, simple and perfect. Get tidy today. Try Clean My Mac free for seven days. Use code New Yorker for 20% off. Hi, it's David Remnick, and this is a bonus episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour. It's the beginning of a new season of In The Dark, the New Yorker's investigative podcast. This time, Staff writer Ava Kaufman explores how a wealthy Los Angeles couple obtained dozens of children all born to surrogates. And she uncovers a dark scandal that could have consequences for the entire industry of surrogate birth. It's an astonishing story, and it's called The Journey. Here's episode one.

2:04Hi, all right, you guys. So I know it's been a while. My name is Kayla. If you all are just now stumbling upon my page. I am 26 years old. I live in Texas, and this is my first time being a gestational surrogate. So I'm kind of sharing my experience. But last year, I started watching videos posted online by a woman in Corpus Christi, Texas. This will be my fifth pregnancy. I have four bio kids. Very new at YouTube, and so bear with me. I'm still getting the hang of actually speaking and looking at the camera and making videos. Kayla Elliott was about to carry a child for strangers. She figured about nine months of work and then it'd be over. In the delicate jargon of the fertility industry, the experience is called A Journey. Please subscribe, and you will get some little sneak peeks of my journey and pregnancy.

3:04Like every surrogate mother, Kayla understood the baby was not hers. It was a gift for someone else. Kayla was carrying a baby for a couple who told her they desperately wanted a second child. And who tried unsuccessfully to conceive. And I say this with all my heart guys, like if I could give my fertility just to sliver it to every mom out there who's struggling with fertility, I would do it in a heartbeat. I mean, I would like no questions asked. Like I, you know, I love the fact that I can help another family, and I don't see. She kept posting updates and videos, mostly on TikTok, so that her family and friends could follow along. Here are just guys 17 weeks today. A little baby girl, belly button, or a loving being a surrogate. A Kayla's journey,

4:04but take her somewhere unexpected. Her posts would eventually attract a very different audience. Popped up, my friend sent it to me on TikTok. I checked my email and here my attorney had sent us a TikTok. And that's what really stopped me in my tracks. And I was just scrolling and then I seen the names. And I was like, my heart just stopped. Like, are you serious? It started to make me shake. I was getting so sad and worried. Kayla would end up becoming a whistleblower, drawing attention to a confounding scheme that had been going on for years. And now to a bizarre story in the San Gabriel Valley. The first thought that went into my head is, oh my god, like, what don't we know? This is one of the craziest stories I've ever heard. Kayla would be swept up into a much larger scandal, one that's still unfolding, and that threatens to undermine the entire surrogacy industry. There's clearly a loophole in relation to surrogacy.

5:08That's not a loophole. That surrogacy has designed. The scandal would raise uncomfortable questions about who gets to be a parent. I'm really afraid that people who have no other way to have a family, this will be taken away from them. And it would prompt investigations by child welfare and law enforcement agencies. We're all intents and purposes. She's kidnapped their child. That's what she's done. The Bureau refused to comment on the case, but Arcadia police confirmed that their detectives are working with the FBI. We believe that it extended beyond our city and into possibly other parts of the country and maybe internationally. I'm Eva Kaufman, an investigative reporter at the New Yorker. From In the Dark and the New Yorker, this is The Journey. Episode 1, Gifts.

6:09Hello. Hey, Eva. Eva. It's me. I'm trying to dig up information for you. I'll keep it from you. Hi. It's amazing to be in the US in person. I'm kind of crazy here. I'm sorry. I'm going to get my kids settled over there eating with their meat so that they're not old. There's no rush. So where do you live at? Do you live in New York? I live in Los Angeles. Oh, Los Angeles. Yeah. Oh, so you live right there? I live 20 minutes from there. Oh, it's pretty easy. Yeah. So that's how I got onto the story. Isn't my local news, either? Yeah. One day last fall, I visited Kayla Elliott and her boyfriend, Blake Burry. They live in Corpus Christi near the Gulf. It's marshy, and at low tide, you can smell the water. Ducks, chickens, goats, and a pig roam their grassy backyard. Inside it was crowded, too. Four kids, plus cats, kittens, fish. Even a foreign exchange student who'd recently arrived. Hey, this is Diego from France.

7:11He's already got four in 18. Okay, he got here and like the midst of it. And he's like, what is going on? Yeah, I had to try to explain why you were coming because I don't even think he could really understand what happened with my surrogate thing. Yeah. Kailas Surrogate thing began in 2024. Not long after, she turned 26. What was the conversation between you guys about wanting to do that? Well, for us, the whole goal. Yeah, his dad's friend mentioned about how his friends wife made a lot of money doing surrogacy. She loves bebe babies. I love being pregnant, but my tubes are tied. And so I can't have any more naturally. And so I was like, you know, a little better way to like, say money for our family and also give someone else, you know, a gift that they deserve to have a child. And that was the motivation behind it, you know. Back then, Blake supported the family with his job as a pest control technician. Kaila was mostly a stay-at-home mom,

8:12though she sometimes took on work cleaning rich people's houses. The couple and Kaila's four kids lived with Blake's dad. With the money from surrogacy, they'd be able to rent a place of their own. So I joined some Facebook groups. I think it was surrogates and intended parents. And there was a few other groups. And then I posted like a picture of myself with the profile like, this is who I am. This is my age. This is where I live. Like I'm just kind of curious for if anybody wants to reach out kind of thing. Almost immediately, Kaila got a message. It was from an agency in Los Angeles called Mark Surrogacy. Its coordinators told her they'd matched her with a set of intended parents, or IPs, as they're known in the industry. Okay, so they started by saying, hey, do you want to have a baby for this? Yeah, basically they were like, hey, Kaila, we have a Chinese couple. It's ready to get started. You know, we're interested in talking. And I was like, yes. The agency shared a profile of the couple they had in mind. It showed a ponchy 64-year-old man.

9:14His arm draped around a younger woman with short-cropped black hair. The profile said they lived in Arcadia, California, a city just outside LA. They'd been married three years, had one child, a daughter, a sweetheart, the profile said, who wanted nothing more than a brother or sister. They'd already gone through 10 rounds of IVF. It seemed like, okay, you know, they've tried and tried. They've been unsuccessful like, you know, all these years. And so, who better to come in and help a have a baby than someone that's great at having a baby, you know? The intended parents' names were Guozheng Shuan and Sylvia Zhang. And after reading their story, Kayla was moved. Kayla herself had been adopted at birth by a woman who'd struggled with infertility. Now, she wanted to help this couple from Arcadia. She hadn't met or considered any other intended parents through the agency, but she was flattered that they seemed so eager to get started with her.

10:14It would be an honor they had written if you carry the baby for us. Kayla said yes. Like most surrogates, Kayla would be what's known as a gestational carrier, meaning she wouldn't have any genetic ties to the child. It wasn't her egg. The couple's embryo was made from an anonymous donor egg and sperm from the intended father, Guozheng. Kayla began the month's long process of preparing her body to receive the embryo. She posted about the steps on TikTok. Long story short, guys, we're excited. It's happening. We're already. There were medical screenings. They know my name when I walk in now. They're like, good morning, Kayla. I'm like, hello, just here for more blood work. And rounds of hormone injections. Wednesday, y'all can do my shots with me. First, they're ice. And then I find a location that can be... These shots came with side effects. My hips are bruised and not eating red,

11:16and itchy, and it's just scorned. But totally a blessing for the IP, of course. After all this, Kayla grew concerned. She hadn't heard directly from the IPs. She sent worried messages to the agency, Mark Sorgacy. She read me a few of them. I remember reading their profile beforehand, and they said they wanted their Serious to be a lifelong friend, so I hope for more of that connection. It's sad not being able to talk to them to be honest. Oh, wow. I see, I was really like, why am I not talking to them what's going on? And see, I remember they kept telling me constantly, IPs are very busy. That's what they tell me all the time. IPs are very busy, very busy. They're business owners, very busy. That's what they would tell me. The coordinators reassured her. She would meet the IPs on the day of the embryo transfer, which was scheduled for July 2024. For the procedure, Kayla flew from corpus Christi

12:16to a fertility clinic in LA, where the couple's embryo was stored. As an adult, I haven't been on a plane, so this will be quite an experience. The transfer was quick, like a pap smear. The doctor threaded a catheter through Kayla's cervix, and then, using a long syringe, gently placed the embryo in her uterus. In the waiting room, Kayla learned that Sylvia wasn't coming. Apparently, she was sick with a stomach bug. Gowjun was there, though, looking just like his picture. It may be a bit older. It was almost like relief actually seeing the dad walk in, because I was like, it is him, you know, and so it was kind of like a breath of breath, the relief, it's him, and it's real. Gowjun presented Kayla with a series of gifts, a bouquet of pink roses, a red envelope stuffed with cash, and a gilded, jade bracelet. As Gowjun fastened the bracelet onto Kayla's wrist,

13:16he explained through a translator that the jewelry represented an invitation to join this family. I just thought it was the coolest day in like, oh, you know, they care about me, like, this is really cool. Like, I felt honored, you know what I mean? That I was receiving this as a gift. In a photograph taken that day, Kayla stands beside Gowjun. He's petite, dressed like a businessman. She's wearing leggings, the new bracelet. Her neck tattoo peeks out from a yellow crop top hoodie that says, stand a monica. She'd visited the pier that morning. The two of them are smiling, showing off a printout of the ultrasound. He's holding a picture of them a little, I mean, it's not much to see, it looks like a little grain of rice, but that's the embryo that they implanted. That embryo stuck. Kayla was pregnant. Now that she was caring for the couple,

14:17Kayla started receiving installments of her salary. It was good money, more than she'd ever made. Around $4,500 a month, plus pregnancy-related expenses. She'd even get an allowance for a house cleaner of her own. Like, that's how we moved here, that's how we got my car. There's a lot of things great that came from that to help my family as well. Tell me a little bit more about that. What are the kinds of things you were able to start doing? It's just taking the kid, I don't say amusement parts of this stuff like that. Just places that we normally wouldn't have money to save, to go and do, we were able to just not even think about it and just do it. Besides having pain bills and seeing what we had left, Christmas was awesome for the kids. Oh yeah, Christmas, we went to all of them. Wow, like this money really ultimately went to the kids. Surrogacy is difficult work. It requires not only physical fortitude, but a certain emotional rigor. To do a good job, you have to train yourself,

15:19not to get too attached. At the same time, it's inevitable to be thinking about the living being you're growing. Everything you eat, how much you sleep, how much stress you're under, all of it can affect the baby. Hello to talk. Kayla here, surrogate, almost 31 weeks. As Kayla entered her third trimester, communication with the IPs was still spotty. And now, she was dealing with some medical complications. It's been 10 hours in the ER yesterday, and it's just been a nightmare. There were migraines that made it impossible for her to stand, and she was having trouble with her vision. I'm tired, I don't feel like myself. I can't even go outside because the light hurts my eyes. I'm just, I am miserable. Kayla was diagnosed with papalidema, which is when excess pressure in the brain causes the optic nerve to swell. I kept telling myself, you know, I have four beautiful children, and I want to see them grow up,

16:19and I can't lose my eyesight over this. A doctor told her the condition could make an epidural risky, so she might need to have an unmedicated labor, a prospect which terrified her. You have any tips for me for an all-natural unmedicated birth? Please let me know. This is delivery number five, and I'm like totally freaked. With her due date approaching, Kayla was trying to stay at beat. I have, at the minimum, at least seven weeks left, to bake this little baby, get her all nice and plump for her mom and dad, bake little baby, bake. She was scheduled for an induction, on March 13th, 2025. That night, as she lay in bed at the hospital and corpus Christi, waiting for an IV drip to start. Kayla kept making videos. All right, guys, we made it. I think Blake's nervous. Oh, we got nervous. Something good nervous.

17:19No, I think you're nervous. No, I don't think you're nervous. We're about to take us to a labor and delivery. Oh, okay. To start the process, I'm nervous. I'm nervous. I'm nervous. We're just kidding. But let's get this baby out. Kayla had shared the date with the agency, Mark Sirgacy beforehand. So the intended parents would be ready to travel to Texas and take their baby back to LA. But as Kayla started having contractions, Sylvia and Guo Jun hadn't yet arrived. I was getting worried, you know, like, oh my gosh, are they coming or what's happening? And really, I was just confused because it's like, hello, I'm about to have your child. The labor started in the early afternoon. Around 8 that night, Kayla gave birth to a healthy baby girl. Still, no sign of Guo Jun or Sylvia. The nurses brought the baby over to Kayla for skin-to-skin contact. Her tiny hand rested on Kayla's tattoo chest.

18:22She was a long baby, with a shock of black hair, tucked beneath a pink and blue beanie. And her mouth was open, as though she just been surprised. Kayla was enthralled, though she knew these were probably their last moments together. After an hour, the nurses took the infant away. Later that night, Kayla got a text from Sylvia, that she made it to the hospital. And she was almost kind of like, okay, like, someone's there with her, you know, someone that's not just a hospital worker or a nurse-free worker, you know what I mean? So it felt almost like safe at that point because it was like, okay, I can kind of rest now. The next morning, Sylvia came to see Kayla. It was the first time the two women actually met. Sylvia looked frail, and when they hugged, Kayla could feel the bones through her leather jacket. She showed the same large ass that Guo Junha, at the embryo transfer, placing $2,000 in cash in Kayla's lap

19:22and doling out $100 bills to everyone else in the room. Kayla's mom, Blake, two of Kayla's kids. But when it came to the actual baby, Sylvia seemed a little blus-ay. She didn't really hold the baby much. She didn't really look at the baby. The baby was just kind of laying in the little bassinet thing and I was just, I wasn't very attentive, I guess you could say. It was just very like a nanny picking up a baby or something. You know what I mean? It was so weird. Sylvia asked Blake and Kayla for a ride to the airport. So they got to see the baby one more time. As they said goodbye, Sylvia handed them $500. And then, the journey was over. Back home, Kayla cried for two weeks.

20:23She'd mentally prepared herself to give up the child. But it was as if her body had yet to catch up with what her mind already knew. She posted on TikTok. It was really hard. Like I said, guys, I'm not crying, you know, morning the baby specifically. I'm mourning the chapter closing because it was an experience for sure, a beautiful one. And it just flew by like so fast. And a lot of my hormones are just like postpartum, baby blues kind of thing. I didn't expect to be this emotional, so it's really just kind of strange to me. It helped that Sylvia became somewhat more responsive. She shared with Kayla the baby's name and sent her some videos.

21:26She was a big old cheek. Kayla showed me one where the baby girl, bright eyed and square faced, is wiggling around in a onesie patterned with hearts. I haven't seen the pictures of her face up close. As they began to text a little more, Sylvia shared she was in a hurry to have another child. And asked Kayla if she would carry for her family again. Kayla wasn't sure. She'd only been not pregnant for just a few weeks. And it'd be several months until her body would be ready. And she had another reason to hesitate. About halfway through Kayla's pregnancy, she'd heard something weird, though it seemed at the time easy enough to explain away. Kayla had been scrolling through Facebook when she discovered there was a woman in Pennsylvania, who was also carrying a baby for Sylvia and Quojun.

22:27This was a surprise. Kayla wasn't aware that the couple had hired another surrogate. The two women started messaging, and the other surrogate told Kayla something else. Like Kayla, she'd been led to believe that the IPs had just one child. One in fact, they already had multiple children. Kayla was shocked, but the surrogate in Pennsylvania told her, she didn't think the situation was shady. Just strange. Kayla wrote to the agency, Mark Sirgacy, to express her confusion. A coordinator there told her the couple just wanted a large family, and noted a little casually, quote, they definitely don't have a million kids LOL. Kayla felt uneasy, but it wasn't as though she could just back out. She was already pregnant. The baby was coming, as was the salary. She decided to follow the advice of the couple's other surrogate,

23:28who told her they both just had to suck it up and deal. But now, two months after Kayla gave birth, the mystery of the intended parents and their many children returned. This time, at a far more alarming scale. It began again on Facebook. Kayla was added to a group chat by someone who'd seen one of her posts on social media. The chat contained a few more women, who'd also open surrogates for Sylvia and Guadjun. Even stranger, these women had discovered that Mark Sirgacy had been opened by Sylvia. The couple had set up the agency for themselves, and they seemed to be using it to recruit women across the country to have multiple children for them at the same time. The idea of the couple just wanted a big family, now seemed less plausible. If that was the case, why did they open their own agency? And why did they lie to the surrogates about only having one or two kids?

24:32Some of the women in the group chat formed the suspicion that Sylvia and Guadjun might be selling the children. Kayla was horrified. She'd put herself through a grueling experience, all to give strangers the gift of life. Now she felt manipulated, used. I was really upset. I was really mad because it was crazy, you know, and it just, it was a lot. She decided to post again on TikTok. In the video, she shared what she'd been hearing about the couple and their dubious agency. We don't have the audio of this one. Kayla said she was soon asked to take it down by an FBI agent. But before she removed it, the video went viral. So it blew up. It really, it blew up really quick. As Kayla's story made its way around the internet, it was seen by one set of people in particular.

25:33The many, many other surrogates who'd also carried for the same couple. Each believing they'd been the only one. Popped up my friend sent it to me on TikTok. And so I checked my email and here my attorney had sent us a TikTok. And I'm like, oh, well, what is my attorney sending me TikTok videos? She's like, look at this. She's all, can you imagine? I go, I, what do you mean can I imagine? That's the lady we had the baby for. And I was like, yeah, that's a name of my contract. That's the father in my contract. So I already, at that point, I'm like, oh my god. Okay, we're like, and that's what really stopped me in my tracks. I started crying. I was like, what the heck did I just get myself into? The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported by Guesto. Okay, small business owners, be honest. Is there at least one task you constantly put off because it is just so tedious?

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28:38That's code New Yorker at h-e-r-o dot c-o. This show is supported by Odo. When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up and it gets complicated and confusing. Odo solves this. It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales. Odo is all connected on a single platform in a simple and affordable way. You can save money without missing out on the features you need. Check out Odo at od.com. That's od.co.com. WNYC Studios is supported by Quince. I'm New Yorker cartoonist and number one fan of autumn, Jason Adam Katzenstein. As New York gets its five actually perfect weather days, it's important to have that comfortable sweater that goes with everything and a shirt that looks great under a light jacket. Really all the pieces that make getting dressed easy. And that's what Quince does best. Quince makes premium pants, fitted tees and polos, and breathable activewear.

29:39Quality basics designed to work across your wardrobe, essentials with style. I'm about to rock the Quince Denim Chor jacket all autumn long. Every afternoon when I take my pup out for a walk in the park, I'm wearing that Chor jacket. I love the color, I love the way it looks, and I love the way it feels. And I've been getting a lot of compliments and I feel great. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash radio hour. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's q-u-i-n-c-e.com slash radio hour. That's Spring and Summer. The surrogates for Sylvia and Guadjoon began to find one another. Under different circumstances, they might have had little in common. They lived in Virginia, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Florida, California.

30:39They were white, Hispanic, black, Asian, lesbians, aspiring tradwives, military spouses, single moms, some opposed abortion, one had worked in an abortion clinic. But thrust into the same unnerving situation, they quickly bonded as they tried to figure out what was going on. Some of the surrogates created group chats on Facebook. They started swapping photographs of the same Jade bracelets, same envelopes filled with cash, and same intended mother, smiling at their bedside's hours after they'd given birth. These were pictures of Sylvia and the same exact outfit, the same leather jacket, like the same outfit to the tee. I mean, you just can't say, like, oh no, that's not me. Like it is you, you know what I mean? And it's like indisputable evidence. For the surrogates, even sharing these details could be risky. Most surrogacy contracts require confidentiality.

31:39If the Mark surrogates revealed personal information about the intended parents, they could be forced to repay the money they earned, or even be sued. But the risk seemed worth taking. The surrogates worried about the children they'd carried, and why the couple had wanted so many of them. They wondered whether they'd been unwitting participants in some kind of dystopian mass breeding scheme, or if they'd carried babies for human traffickers. They started sending tips to the FBI, an FBI agent responded, and asked the women questions about their journeys, though the agent wouldn't tell them much in return. Kayla was desperate to find out if the newborn treat carried was okay. For days, she texted and called Sylvia. She was hoping Sylvia might be able to reassure her. Finally, Sylvia called her back. And immediately, Sylvia told Kayla something that made Kayla even more alarmed. She and Guadjian had just spent four days in jail.

32:42When Kayla heard this, she started recording the call. They put a house going on to be all in the jail. Oh my goodness. Sylvia didn't explain exactly why she'd been arrested. They'd taken me into a jail for days. I'd taken my phone, use my phone to text to everybody. This is so bad, I'm pretty sorry. Oh my gosh. But she alluded to a police investigation, regarding child trafficking. So they say, I'm a setting the baby. I'm not setting the baby. All the baby is me. Sylvia said, I'm not selling the baby. The babies were all living with her and Guadjian. Yeah. I said a lot of money. We want to be the family here. We spent a lot of money. Sylvia told Kayla, we want to be the family here. No, I believe you. I understand what you're saying. I was trying to figure out why all these other girls were saying these horrible things.

33:43The conversation was bizarre. Sylvia spent the first few minutes lamenting that the police had taken away her phone. So they still put you in my phone. Don't want to give it to me. They also put me in my phone. I don't have a phone to call. Kayla remained sympathetic and kept trying to steer the conversation back to the baby she'd carried. Was she safe? No, I understand. I believe you. Like I said, I was really concerned. And then of course, you know, I understand that, you know, she isn't my baby, but still having, you know, given birth to her and meeting you and caring about you. It's just, I mean, my- It wasn't entirely clear whether Sylvia even knew which of her surrogates she was talking to. At one point, she mentioned what sounded like a different baby, carried by someone else. Yeah, I felt not turning into a contact with your, your stage, took a little baby back. Okay, wait, I think you're confused as to who you're talking to. Because I think this is Kayla.

34:45Yeah, you're, Kayla was helping me to have a baby, right? Yes, yeah, I had the baby. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So... After a lot of unsatisfying back and forth, Kayla got one clue about the baby. She wasn't with Sylvia. She was with DCFS, the Los Angeles County Department of Children and Family Services. So Kayla dialed the DCFS hotline, hoping someone official could finally tell her what was going on. I called and spoke to a lady, I guess, at the main line, whoever you call. And she basically, I kind of had a haggle with her for a minute because she didn't want to tell me anything and I said, look, I'm a surrogate, I am the child of birth mom. I gave birth to this baby and she was like, okay, she said, well, she said, I can't give you know, any, you know, too much information. Child welfare cases in California are confidential. Since Kayla wasn't actually related to the baby, she didn't have the legal right to know anything about her.

35:47But by emphasizing her unusual connection to the child, she managed to get herself transferred to two case workers. And I'm just like pacing back and forth through the house, like absolutely just shocked at what I was hearing. This is when Kayla learned the true number of children that the couple had. The man I never got his name, but he said that yeah, there was like 21 children. 21 children, most under the age of three. And he was saying that it was just the wildest thing ever that like all these children looked like related, but not related, like, hair colors were semi-different in eye colors and some looked more mixed than others. And it was just a really crazy like they said they'd never seen anything like that. It turned out that Sylvia and Guadrune had been jailed on suspicion of child endangerment. The couple had been released without charges, but the police investigation was ongoing. Meanwhile, the children had been taken into temporary foster care.

36:49A juvenile dependency court in LA would be looking into the situation. To decide whether or not Sylvia and Guadrune could get them back. This wasn't overwhelming set of facts for Kayla and the other surrogates to take in. And there wasn't much they could do. Surrogacy in the United States is largely unregulated. A multi-billion dollar industry underwritten by good intentions. It's harder to open a hair salon than it is to open a surrogacy agency. And if something goes wrong at an agency, there's no licensing department to appeal to, no regulatory body to report to, no federal laws govern the intimidac of bringing strangers together to create a new life. There is, however, that one universal rule for surrogates. Don't get attached. The Mark surrogates had known this from the start of their journeys.

37:51You tell yourself, this isn't your trauma. I mean, those are things that you should know before even applying to be a surrogate. This is not your baby. You don't get attached. But now they began to question whether that rule still applied. The intended parents had been in jail and were under investigation by police and the FBI. And their children had been placed in foster care. Kayla said, if she'd known that this was going to happen to the baby she'd given birth to, she would have never handed her over to Sylvia. She liked to say that she would have fled with her over the border to Mexico. For Kayla, this was just a soothing fantasy. The baby she'd carried was already in the foster system. But that wasn't true for everyone. Because at that very moment, several women were still carrying for Sylvia and Guadrion. In fact, in May 2025, at the time of the parents' arrest, six more babies were still on the way.

39:05Record your message at the tone when you are finished. Hang up or press pound for more options. Yes, Detective, hi, my name is Stacy King. I am currently pregnant in state of Virginia with a couple's baby. And I'm just trying to see what I can come up with paper work wise to protect the baby that will be coming in the next little while. If you could please give me a call back, I would appreciate it. Thank you. Stacy King lives in Chesapeake, Virginia, and works at a shop that installs audio accessories. Yeah, we do boats, we do cars, we do houses. They even do the little golf carts. I met up with her in the shop one afternoon, with our producer Natalie Giblonsky, and Stacy led us to her office in the back.

40:05So I can't guarantee it's going to be quiet. I'm just going to have to understand. Stacy is the shop's bookkeeper. She's exceptionally organized. And like Kayla, she was so excited about her serenity journey that she documented nearly every step along the way. She and her husband got matching t-shirts. His red, it's not mine. Her's, it's not mine either. She was nearly four months away from giving birth to a baby girl for Sylvia and Guadjian when she first heard about the other women. She'd come across a warning posted on Facebook by a surrogate who'd seen Kayla's tiktok. I freaked out. I was at home. My husband was in the shower. I was trying to read through it, and I can feel like my heart rate speeding up and time slowing down. It was as if she'd taken a fast-acting drug. And it's already, like it was already starting to take effect at that point of figuring out,

41:09holy crap, this is real. And my daughter coming up to me, mommy, mommy, and I'm trying to pay attention to her, but read this at the same time. She wasn't sure what to do. So she contacted the lawyer who'd reviewed her surrogacy contract. Yeah, I emailed him. He emailed me that evening. What is your email first sir? Uh, scared spitless. What do I do? It read, scared spitless. What do I do? The lawyer didn't seem too concerned. Basically, he said, as long as she was still getting paid, and as long as the pregnancy was going smoothly, she should keep calm and carry on. She eventually talked to other lawyers, who told her the same thing. She should follow the terms of her contract, which meant staying in touch with the intended parents, and handing over the baby as soon as she was born. What are the thoughts going through your head in terms of what's going to happen to baby girl?

42:13Um, this is a lot. It was a whole lot. I just wanted her, I wanted to be safe. I wanted her to be safe. And my next thought was just trying to make sure she came out healthy. Stacey panicked, and then she felt guilty for panicking. She didn't want to cause any stress to the baby. There were days where I couldn't come to work. Like, I had to call on and say, like, look, this is what I've hit. I can't come in today. She had so many questions. Would Sylvia and Gorgian still be allowed to come to Virginia to pick up the baby if they were under investigation? And even if Stacey could hand the baby over to them, would it be the right thing to do? Stacey joined one of the group chats, made up of surrogates who carried for the couple. One of them had delivered a baby girl, the same weekend, that Sylvia and Gorgian had spent in jail. That surrogate was still recovering from a C-section, when her county's child welfare agency took the newborn away.

43:16Stacey wanted to find out whether there was anything she could do to intervene. Before it was too late. Record your message at the tone when you were finished. Hang up, or print? She started calling around. To all the authorities she could think of. Yes, that's the point. My name is Stacey King. Yes, hi. My name is Stacey King. I'm almost 38 weeks pregnant. I'm just trying to see what I can do. I need some advice. And she would work for me to you guys. Nine, she can continue. Good morning Stacey, I know they can specialize with FBI online. I'm a few weeks in my college. Hi, Miss King. This is an FBI boss at the University of New Zealand. Can you please give me a copy? I guess it was possible. Thank you. Just going through these and just thinking about the number of agencies too you're dealing with.

44:16It's so many different entities from the law firm, from the LA Social Services, Virginia Social Services, FBI, local police. I have been tried calling and talking to people in the cluster care system. Trying to figure out how to become a foster parent to her. J.C. wasn't even sure if that would be legal. In states like California, the courts are explicit that just stational surrogates don't have any claim to the children they're carrying. If a surrogate could change your mind at any point in the process, then the contract sheet signed would be meaningless. It's not difficult to see how introducing ambiguity into these kinds of transactions could lead the surrogacy industry to collapse. None of the couple surrogates had gone into this line of work because they'd wanted another kid of their own. If anything, the opposite was true. Kayla had had her tubes tied. Stacey had that, it's not mine, T-shirt. But now, many of the surrogates were raising questions about their contracts.

45:18They were wondering about their custody rights. And in doing so, they were unintentionally putting the industry to an unprecedented test. We ended up calling children in youth and explaining it to them really early on back in June or July. Alexa Fossold was a long-distance bus driver in Central Pennsylvania. She was due around the same time as Stacey in October 2025. And she had a lot of the same questions. And everybody kept telling us the answer of, there's no baby yet, so we can't help you. And so I was like, oh, okay. So what does that mean? You're going to wait till the day I give birth to step in and help us. What does that mean for us? Am I going to have to take the baby home and then call children in youth afterwards? Making things even trickier was the fact that it's difficult to report concerns to a child welfare agency about a child that doesn't yet exist.

46:20Alexa told me she kept being asked for the child's date of birth, which was obviously impossible to provide. They didn't know what to tell us because there was no baby yet. They were like, well, are you reporting yourself? It was really confusing to them. Stacey, Alexa, and the other pregnant surrogates made dozens of calls like this, trying to figure out what to do. Mostly what they learned was that, at least for now, they were completely on their own. All they had was one another. They woke up messaging the group chat and went to sleep the same way. They traded notes on their doctor's appointments, then each other ultrasound photos. They still weren't sure what would happen when they gave birth, if they'd even be allowed to bring the baby's home. But tentatively, the women started to get ready. They texted about baby fever and how their inner mom-a-bears were coming out, in quote, full-effing force.

47:20Joked about buying land for a commune where they could collectively babysit. They traded advice on breast pumps, knit baby blankets, collected baby clothes. Even as they made these backup lands in secret, they stayed in touch with the intended parents, as required by their contracts. They shared screenshots of their ongoing communications with Sylvia. It was now a little funny when Sylvia mixed up their names, or mailed them identical tins of mooncakes, or sent them the same text at the same time. You're doing an amazing job, one of the messages said. I am reaching out in the hope that I might have the opportunity to visit you, said another. As part of this charm offensive, Sylvia also called some of the pregnant surrogates. Stacy was two months away from delivering, and decided to record their conversation. So I don't need a cell baby into keeping the life in all. Sylvia sounded calm, even as she defended herself against some of the rumors Stacy might have heard.

48:22Well, they just want to... I'm not sure why they say I'm a human trafficking. I told my story to my attorney, several attorneys, saying there's nothing to look at. You have a criminal case in here. So they are going to contact with a detective to find out what's going on. Okay. It's been a lot. Sylvia offered to fly the Stacy's house to explain herself in person. I think I should fly into your place to tell you the stories. I'm not a bad person. We are working super hard to keep our lives and we just want to show our family. I'm not a bad person, she said. We just want to have a family. I know you guys work, so I've tried not to bother you too much.

49:24But honestly, it's scary for us or for me too. When they said you guys had more than one child, that caught me off guard. I only thought you had one child. Sylvia said she never tried to cheat anyone. It sounds like Stacy is longing to believe her. We're praying. Maybe it's just a misunderstanding. We've got to let the law and the courts do what they're supposed to. You can hear Stacy trying to imagine what a mother separated from her children must be going through. It's heartbreaking to even think about losing your kids, let alone someone coming in and taking them. So my heart is going to you. I know you're not doing well. Sylvia told her the arrest in May was a big mix up. She insisted she was a good mother. She done a good job raising her children.

50:26Someday maybe I can invite you to my house and come back and take it for you. You can see my child. They are really healthy. They are friendly. They help each other. They are independent. They're helping each other. They are independent. She said. They know how to put a trash can. They know how to take a bag. She was out. Close out. Some of the children know how to put it back close to the washers. Then they eating well, sleeping well. I follow them at the doctor's appointment. I think I'm doing pretty good for the child. I know we can sometimes bring them to go out to play. The household Sylvia was describing sounded a bit austere. Little kids who knew had to throw away trash, put their clothes in the washing machine,

51:30and who sometimes were taken outside to play. Still, Stacey hoped for a connection. And she and Sylvia went on for a few minutes. She was about being mothers, about homeschooling, and juggling work. Throughout the conversation Sylvia seemed like she was confiding in Stacey. I never talk with anyone. You are the only person I talk with. The story. Trust me. I don't want to tell anybody the story. I might share it with my husband if that's okay. That's okay. Sylvia said, just don't talk to reporters. I don't want somebody to report anything. I don't want anybody to report anything. But in early August, not long after that phone call, there was more reporting.

52:30New at five disturbing details and police records as our Katie. We have to obtain a copy of the police of a David from the parents arrest. Suddenly, Stacey and the surrogates had a clear picture of why Sylvia and Guadrune had ended up in jail. And while their kids had been taken away. We do have to warn you the details and images in these documents are graphic. According to the police, this had all started one morning three months earlier, when officers showed up at Sylvia and Guadrune's house. They had just gotten the call from a nearby hospital. One of the couple's babies, who was two months old, had been admitted to the intensive care unit with severe head injuries. And doctors were concerned that he might have been abused. So detectives went to check out the baby's home address, a 10,000 square foot mansion in the city of Arcadia. Inside, the police wondered if they'd entered some sort of unlicensed daycare. There were rooms filled with cribs, and at least a dozen toddlers and infants seated at desks and high chairs.

53:35Inside, makeshift classrooms. It was impossible to tell the girls and boys apart, since all the children had their head shaved. Police also noticed CCTV cameras everywhere, recording audio and video. On one tape, a nanny named Junmele appeared to hit the two-month-old child who'd ended up in the hospital. Arcadia police say security cameras inside this home show Lee placing him down out of camera sight while he could be heard crying. The baby cries for a few seconds until a thud or a hit is heard, and crying suddenly stops. This wasn't the only child who'd allegedly been abused. The footage also showed nannies forcing other children into squats, hitting them in the face, and spanking them on a table at the front of the classroom. There were so many hours of video, police were still going through it. Police say while Sylvia Zhang and Guangzhoung Chen were arrested and released, their investigation into them and what went on inside this home continues.

54:46When we reached out to Sylvia and Guo Jun for comment on the series, one of their legal representatives told us he'd instructed the couple not to respond. But the couple is previously denied abusing any of their children or trafficking them. And one of their lawyers has told me the couple had done everything they could to protect their family. After seeing the images from inside the house, Stacey made a decision. So yeah, there is a switch. And it was around the, I want to say the August timeframe. The switch did definitely flip. Like, you know what? Let's start preparing to possibly bring her home. It was a decision that months ago would have seemed unthinkable, even irrational. It would mean taking a huge legal risk. And it would mean getting attached.

55:50No, we're not biologically related, but okay, even at that point, everything I eat, my blood, everything else of me goes into her to help her be better. She is a part of me at that point. And then Mama Bear comes out. And no, she's not mine, but you want to protect a child, an innocent being that you were carrying. Stacey's two children embraced the idea of adding a new sibling to their home. They would listen to me put the monitor on my stomach and they could hear her heartbeat. And they would get so excited that they could hear her heartbeat and they would talk to her. Her son raised cars on her stomach. Her daughter sang to the baby. So like, there was a point there where we were calling her sissy. Because we were, you know, considering further on into the pregnancy of keeping her.

56:50Stacey was due in less than two months. Like every bone in our bodies was to protect this child. And if we could keep her, we would. If you enjoy this episode, please follow in the dark to hear the rest of the series. Thanks for listening. The Journey is written and produced by me, Eva Kaufman, senior producer Natalie Jablonsky, and producer Raymond Tunga-Car. Samara Fremark is the Managing Producer for the series. It's edited by Allison McAdden, additional editing by Willing Davidson and Madeline Barron. Theme and Original Music by Alex Weston. Additional Music by Chris Jullin and Allison Leigh Brown. This episode was mixed by Corey Shrepple.

57:50Our art is by Vartica Sharma. Our direction by Aviva Mike Love and Ben Kofi. Fact-jacking by Inwo Shoo and Amon Hussein. Our summer research assistant is Ethan Khan. Legal review by Fabio Bertone and Ben Murray. Our Managing Editor is Julia Rothschild, with additional support from Kiarra or T's. Thanks also to Parker Jesko. The Editor of The New Yorker is David Remnick. If you have comments or story tips, please send them to the team at in the dark at Newarker.com. I make sure to follow in the dark wherever you get your podcasts. You can use the site for free with adding music tokelix greatest talent. This is Istz stake and genommen Se., co-starya Colburn and

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