Episode 655: The Du Pont Foxcatcher Murder Part III - Wrestle-Mania

0:00There's no place to escape to, this is the last talk on the left. That's one of the cannibalism started. You know, I feel like I've grown a lot. Just in this sideways, look, no, no, no, no, no, you piece of shit. I'm less swollen than I was. I can tell because I've been sick. Okay, I've been sick. And so I realize though, something cut through the cloud, the measma of my sickness, wrestling might not be gay. I don't know how. Oh my God. At this A in your 40s, you fight. I understand what you're saying. You don't know how I came to that conclusion. Because none of the information actually would lead me to that conclusion.

1:04Sure. But you did finally come to the conclusion that men can touch each other without it being gay. I don't understand the desire, but that's fine. Women either. I'll hug a woman. If she'll let me. I'll hug any woman available. Believe you're a woman. Oh, man, I just don't want to hug. You know what it is? I just never understood. I grew up sisters. I was overmothered. Yeah. I don't like rough housing with you boys. I don't like getting my, I don't like you boys getting your sweat on me. That's for, that's for making love to a woman. Yeah. I don't want your boat sweat on me and I don't get it. But I understand it's a sport thing that I just, it's passed. I like it. I had an alliance with the wrestlers. You know, I was on the football team, but I had an alliance with the wrestlers because I used to laugh when they beat up the baseball players. And they just wanted an audience. Well, it's gonna last about cast on the left. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Marcus Parks. I'm here with the, I got, I mean, I would say. I mean, I totally different Henry Zabrowski. I mean, it's 55%. It's just this one sport that I don't understand.

2:07But hey, you know, it's because they don't really make any money from it. Yeah. It's physically growing. Yeah. It's extremely difficult. It's almost impossible to make it to the very top of the heap. And then you can make it to the top of the heap. Get hurt. Never do anything ever again. Just end up selling cars just like everybody else. Yeah. And so I don't understand like why anybody would do any of this. Yeah. But also, I mean, I did improv. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. The single. The single most charming one. So I don't know. What do I know? And we've got the man who knows how to play the sides against each other. His name is Ed Larsen. Are you doing it? I'm doing great. I'm doing great. I mean, what would you do if this was the best way to find out if wrestling is gay or not, is going to a room with a bunch of wrestlers in it. Calm all gay. Bitch, you'll kiss me to prove you're not gay. You can see me running screaming. Go, go. Get away we go.

3:10Well, not that we've spent two episodes demonstrating how the deposits were one of the most Ponds were one of the most evil and consequential families in world history. Let's end this series with a focus on one Dupont in particular. Today, we're finally telling the full story of John Dupont and the Dupont Foxcatcher murder. While the first two episodes of this series demonstrated what the Duponts were able to accomplish just so long as they had no regard for human life, John Dupont was an example of what happens when one of the Dupont bears is left to spin his own wheels completely apart from the rest of the Dupont clan, not even close to being involved in the business. See, while I wouldn't put John Dupont on the level of evil is, say, the Dupont who said, fuck it when it came to poisoning all of us with Teflon, John Dupont was still careless, dangerously lonely, completely devoid of social skills and mentally ill. Cool. Great combo. Considering his behavior, I'd put John's emotional intelligence by the time he murdered someone just before he turned 60.

4:11I put him on the level of a disturbed seven-year-old if, of course, that disturbed seven-year-old had nearly unlimited funds to do whatever he wanted. Oh, the movie blank check. Yeah. In a poorer man, these qualities would have simply made John Dupont homeless. But, for an heir to the Dupont fortune, these shortcomings instead made John Dupont into a dangerous and unpredictable man who had a lot of power over other people. As such, in this episode, we hope to show you exactly how people like John Dupont work and what it's like to be in the immediate orbit of someone in the Dupont family, even if they are separated from the Dupont family. But to be completely fair, considering what the Epstein files have shown us, concerning how incredibly wealthy people spend their time and money, I think that it's a bit of a minor miracle that John Dupont wasn't an absolute monster. Instead, I described John Dupont as a dangerous weirdo, a guy who probably could have lived a relatively normal life

5:12if anyone in the Dupont family had given a damn. John, however, was left to figure out everything on his own. And since he was a Dupont, he did so in a world completely devoid of consequence until, of course, he committed a murder that was so brazen that it could not be swept under the rug. I find it interesting that the rest of the Dupont family, you know, let's say their crimes were perpetrated on the rest of the world. And this is an interesting case of a Dupont pulling the world into his world. But he did this thing where John Dupont didn't have to go out to commit a bunch of crimes. He brought this very small world of high level competitive wrestling. It's an extremely small world. And he essentially bought it, brought it to his house, and that's where he did his crimes. Yep. As far as what John Dupont did, he shot and killed an Olympic gold medal winning wrestler named Dave Schultz. Dave had been a member of John's wrestling team, Team Foxcatcher,

6:13which included a number of competitive wrestlers who all lived and trained on John Dupont's sprawling Pennsylvania state Foxcatcher farms. Dave had been introduced to John Dupont by his brother, Mark Schultz, who was also an Olympic gold medal winning wrestler. Mark actually wrote our main source today, Foxcatcher, which is a surprisingly funny book considering how it is ultimately about the murder of Mark's brother. He's an amazing talker too. He's only 30 for 30, which is really one how I had first even heard about this story. Yeah. He stopped portray that way in the movie by Channing Tatum. I'll tell you that. Yeah. It kind of makes me, that's why the fictional movies will never be the same. Like once you know all the story, it's not quite the same when you go and look at it because the real dude really had a lot of depth. Yeah. Yeah, he did. And so let's get into the story of John Elutair Dupont starting with his bizarre and wealthy childhood. John Dupont was born in November of 1938 as the youngest child of four to William Dupont, Jr. and Jean Lissiter Austin.

7:14William Dupont was one of the many multi-millionaire Duponts and John therefore grew up in a massive mansion with more than 40 rooms on an estate outside of Newtown Square, Pennsylvania. The mansion, known as Lissiter Hall after John's mother, have been modeled after President James Madison's home in Vermont, which had been designed by the Dupont's most famous family friend, Thomas Jefferson. Yeah, he just did anything, right? Thomas Jefferson? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. He could just draw up a house? No. He fucking paid so what did he say? He did it. Thomas Jefferson is so cool. Thomas Jefferson discovered a fucking burden. He gave a bunch of money. He said, call a John. All right. Thomas Jefferson can turn himself silver. And then he can turn into, and he would protect us and be the, the emissary of the world heater to lack. That's right. And he personally killed the Barbary Pirates. Wow. Like some people that go do it or nothing. Tommy's my favorite.

8:15He could tell by the ponytail. Now, Lissiter Hall was on an 800 acre estate that eventually acted as a compound of sorts. An extravagant guest house called the Chalet sat next to the mansion, while the estate itself boasted several other smaller houses and buildings. Eventually, this estate would come to be known as Foxcatcher Farms. Now, when John Dupont was born in the waning days of the Great Depression that his family had of course helped to create, Foxcatcher Farms was mostly dedicated to the breeding and racing of thoroughbred race horses. From what it seems like, John Dupont's father spent his time and his family's wealth on horse racing. Just as John would later use that same generational wealth to insert himself into the world of competitive wrestling. But as opposed to wrestling, horse racing was the Dupont family approved hobby. And it's a hobby of many moneyed families that have been doing horse stealing and racing and breeding for an extremely long time. It's rich people behavior. Yes. And have you ever slapped a side a little man?

9:15No, hey. That's called creative engineering. Well, the Duponts were known for horse racing and John's father had achieved international acclaim for designing and building more than 20 race tracks in steeple chase courses across the globe. This way ahead and threw up them courses. Yeah. And it's a big circle. Maybe this circle can be a little wider than the last one. No, I've done the key here as a horses. Yeah. They're here. And I ran and ran and ran. No, be right in the middle. A pod. I hate you. Shoot this man in the head. No, no. It's just a pod. Takes a good idea. Kill him and throw him in the pond. Yeah. Seems like a Ponzi scheme. Let's keep going. Ha. Boom Dupont, however, may have spent a little too much time on the horses because John's parents divorced when he was still a toddler. It also made sure you that Wim Dupont was probably not a great man because getting divorced in the early 40s, especially in high society, it's a big fucking deal.

10:23I also suspect that John Dupont may have been the baby that was supposed to save the marriage because his three much older siblings had all married and left home by the time John was in grade school. And they had nothing to do with them. John kind of sounds like a baby that was conceived by just sitting on a bunch of extra calm that was sitting on the toilet. Yeah. Like I don't know if it was purposefully done. It sounded like you just kind of sneezed while he was inside or once and then just fucking come and set a fish shot out of him and then just made him. You're a doctor now. I'm Thomas Jefferson. All right. I think I know a little thing about how babies are made. All right. My name is Thomas Jefferson. John's parents. Yeah. Thomas Jefferson actually does know quite a bit about how babies are made. I invented fuck. Yeah. Tommy Jefferson. Now you invent fuck. Are you the Tommy Jefferson? No. John's parents divorced. His father left and was not involved in John's life from that point forward.

11:23So John basically grew up alone on this massive estate with his mother as his only companion. And man, do we know how well it turns out when boys grow up with their mothers, their only companion? It's nice. They definitely never stopped calling them mother. Mother. As a result, John grew up painfully shy and soon developed a stutter. The closest thing John had to a childhood friend was the son of a Dupont family show her. But John later learned that his mother had actually put this boy on the Dupont payroll and his only job was to pretend to like John. Oh, like a fat boy. Yeah. It's like painfully imperfect. Even though John still had no friends by the time you reached high school, he was still well known enough to be voted both lazy as student and most likely to succeed, which was an obvious wink towards John Dupont's family name. Yeah, it was actually held back a grade. Not because he was dumb and I don't anyway whatsoever.

12:25He was just very lazy. I think it was most likely to succeed from the union. Yeah. John was, however, reasonably athletic. And while he did participate in wrestling in high school, his first love in athletics was swimming. When he eventually went to the University of Miami, he actually competed on the swim team. And he graduated in 1965 with a bachelor's degree in marine biology. You know, I believe he did have his own little Olympic dreams, according to the 30 for 30. Very much so. Yeah, we're going to get to that here in a second. Yeah. He did his marine biology. He learned at a wrestle dolphins, which is very hard because he's so slippery. Absolutely. Honestly, you can see how that frustration will build that eventually you start to shoot those dolphins in the head. You're already going to hold there. Now, like many eccentric wealthy men, John had a ton of interest in hobbies throughout his life. In the 60s, John was really into birds and seashells. Traveled the world collecting thousands of seashells and he eventually had a collection of over 40,000 stuffed birds,

13:29which is incredibly harmless behavior for a DuPont. It's all to the birds. I mean, I just feel like it's not leading up to something good. When in 1965, John's father died and to show you how much money these people had, even after the inheritance was split between John and his three siblings, John still walked away with somewhere between 50 and 80 million dollars. And that's 1965 money. Not bad. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Considering I got negative money. Yeah. God. Now, John did use some of that money to build the Delaware Museum of Natural History. Because remember, the DuPont's owned Delaware, Uncle Dupy. Yeah. This was basically a building that held John's personal collection of seashells and stuffed birds. Got to put those 40,000 birds somewhere. John was actually such a prolific ornithologist that he is personally credited with discovering over two dozen species of birds. I'm sure he did it just like everyone doing good.

14:30Do you have any fucking idea how empty your life has to be? To find new birds, new birds. Think about how long and how much time. And he's not getting paid to do it. He's doing it on his dime going and looking at trees, which would later drive him insane. And he's just staring at it and just going like, there's a DuBud. It's like, what is this? Can't do anything else be done? I just feel bad for the guy who really discovered the birds. Damn. I honestly think that he saw these birds. Yeah. Because he was easy to see to someone very smart. And he's easy to see a bird. He didn't go to school. He doesn't know anything about anything. He went to school. He had a bachelor's degree from most lazy. Yeah. No, but he got him. He did get a bachelor's degree from University of Miami. This man has done nothing. You can't convince me that he has an ounce of intelligence. He saw a bird. He saw a bird. He said, that's a bird.

15:30John's true love, however, was athletics. So John had dreamed of swimming in the Olympics, but he was at best a good swimmer rather than a great one. While John's wealth meant that he could participate in pretty much any athletic competition, he did not have the ability to win nor to even come close. If you swam in circles, he would have won. Yeah. When he competed for a spot on the swim team in the 1968 Olympic Games, for example, John came in second to last. But from what it seems, things started going terribly wrong for John Dupont in the late 60s. Who fucking came sad? Who could have been slower than him? Someone richer and fatter. Hello. What's in the neighbor from P.W. Herman? I want to swim in the Olympics. Well, before the late 60s, far as I can tell, John Dupont really was a fairly normal wealthy weirdo with very specific tastes. But what seemed to truly change, John,

16:30was an incident that happened when John was about 30 years old. He was riding a horse when the horse threw him from the saddle and John landed, straddling a fence like he's fucking Wily Coyote. Miss Testicles were so badly injured that they developed an infection and they had to be removed completely. Those testicles were replaced with plastic falsies. And John was supposed to take testosterone shots every day following this incident. And while I know that hormones can be perfectly safe, I also know that they can greatly affect a person's behavior if they aren't applied correctly. And I'm not sure how advanced hormone treatment was in the late 1960s, even if you're as rich as John Dupont. And such, I think it is possible that the misapplication of hormones is what turned John from being a mere rich weirdo into a dangerous and unpredictable rich weirdo. I think later on it would go on to the mixture of alcohol, drugs,

17:32and the haphazard use of hormones. Yes, let's say the inconsistent use of hormones. Apparently when you're hammered and on cocaine, you forget when to take your real medicine. I never thought I was on my medicine. But right around the time that John lost his testicles, he also aged out of competitive swimming. It seems like John figured out very quickly that if he wanted to participate in something the Dupont fortune would open any door he wanted. I did have a question I want to ask the audience. There's so much balls mashing fetish content, right? Guys, I've seen this. Guys jumping onto saw horses with their balls, getting kicked in the balls, doing this kind of stuff and it's for sexual pleasure. My question is, why don't their balls get mashed up so bad that they need to be replaced? Side stories, LPL with gmail.com. I think when you involve a horse, it changes everything, right? I'm sure they do. I did actually work with a girl in Brooklyn and we worked at this flower shop together many years ago

18:33and she made extra money doing ball fetish videos. Yes. And she said that it looks much worse than it is. Oh, you think you're pulling it? They're pulling it. They're pulling it. Yeah, they're pulling it. You can't go all wily nilly. Some of these guys like it in their balls. Fucking hammer. Yeah, I'm sure some of them definitely lose their balls. Yeah, they're very delicate. Side stories LPL with gmail.com. Well, even though John didn't even try to compete in the 1976 Olympic Games, he was still made a manager as a reward for his financial contributions. That meant that John Dupont could wear the team's warm-up uniform and pose with them for a photo, which gave John the illusion that he had actually earned a spot on the team. And the illusion was enough for John, usually that's kind of all he needed, because John was indeed starting to lose his grip on reality. As it turned out, in addition to everything else, John was also schizophrenic. And by this point in his life, he's one of those guys where it seems to have showed up in his mid to late 20s

19:33and really started getting going hard in his 30s. But after that, the rest of the Duponts may more or less wash their hands of this odd ball relative who is obsessed with swimming and birds instead of horse racing in institutionalized mass murder. How will we reach these keys? How will we reach him? He needs to be making forever chemical. And he tried tweeting at him. Oh! Well, if he is not interested in the burning point of human breath and I don't know what to talk about. Yeah, I guess he'll spend his days watching birds playing grandass. That's fine. And so, with near unlimited funds, no sense of consequence and zero social skills, John Dupont's mental illness quickly became a danger to those around him. In the late 70s, for example, a swim coach that John knew had been invited out to Fox Catcher Farms and that swim coach brought along his young son. The coach's son was taking a swim in the estate's pond while John was fishing that day.

20:34But John became enraged because the fish weren't biting. They weren't doing what he wanted them to do. Sounds like a Ponzi scheme. I love it. You should be filled with fish now. Don't I mean? You should be absolutely filled with other fish and then you bring fish to other empty ponds after you've taken the fish from them. And then you've got to do that and you pay back. You're robbing fish to pay carp. I think you're back yard could use a pond. I can tell you one. Oh, wow. That sounds amazing. Well, John eventually decided that the reason why the fish weren't biting was because the local geese were casting spells on him. So John pulled out his handgun and started shooting at the pond geese completely forgetting that a child was swimming in the pond. And John came very close to shooting his guest's son. That's fucking power, man. He's just being a piece of shit. He knew what he was doing. Yeah. No, he definitely knew what he was doing.

21:34But that's the thing about the, it's the consequence thing because you know, I definitely don't want to imply in any way whatsoever that being schizophrenic makes someone inherently dangerous. It absolutely does not. Well, if you're unmedicated and you're on, if you're not doing stuff, well, even if you're unmedicated, it still doesn't make someone inherently dangerous. It doesn't. It absolutely does. It absolutely means anything, anybody inherently dangerous. Yeah. Yeah. Having multiple load of guns on them doesn't help see that. That's not a good thing to have. Yeah. And because a lot of people are stopped, you know, by their own sense of consequence, their own sense of like, if I do this, that will happen. I mean, that's why we have not guilty by reason of insanity because some people do cross the threshold where they don't know the difference between right and wrong. John Dupont always knew the difference between right and wrong, but his schizophrenia did make him far more unpredictable and far more dangerous than, you know, the regular person. You wouldn't care either way. Yeah. Now, John's burgeoning mental illness and his penchant for carrying around massive loaded weapons

22:34that didn't stop him from getting married in 1983. The wedding was massive with over 500 guests, a true Dupont affair. But the marriage only lasted a few months because John Dupont was highly abusive in addition to everything else. So John Dupont was also an alcoholic. And when he drank, he got mean allegedly in just a few months that he was married to his first and only wife. John threw her into a burning fireplace, tried to shovel out of a moving car and threatened her with a knife. In an incident that sounds like the last straw, John once even held a gun to his wife's head and accused her of being a Russian spy. Saying, quote, Russian spies get shot. The voice. Well, after that, John's first wife fled never to return. But following the departure of John's wife after he showed her just how dangerous he could truly be, John decided to focus completely on athletics

23:37while also bringing himself closer to local law enforcement. This is another thing that I think he did very much on purpose. What really started the wrestling obsession? We have no idea. We'll get to it here in a bit. That's a whole thing. But we'll get to it in a bit. We have no idea. John built a 14,000 square foot world class athletic training facility on Foxcatcher farms in 1985. But that facility also included a shooting range. While John did indeed use the range to become an expert marksman, along with everything else, he also invited the local cops to use the shooting range for training. A lot of rich guys do this. Make the cops your friends, and you can get away with anything. Murdock family, we've seen over and over again. Yeah, John kept a close relationship with the local cops from then on, donating money, buying them equipment, and even letting them use his helicopter. But consequently, the new town township police department gave John his very own police badge,

24:37which showed John yet again that he could buy his way into pretty much anything. Yeah, but it doesn't mean anything. It's another thing they just fucking gave him. Well, you know, the average person on the street, don't fucking know that. Oh, I know. He shows it, but when he shows a very official looking, well, what is an official police badge? I mean, that's what Alec Murdock did when he was driving around with it and his fucking front dash. Steve, it's a call and check. Yep. All the shack was a honest cop. And so is Elvis. And so John's close relationship with the police, combined with the fact that John was estimated to be worth about $200 million by the year 1987, had meant that the police ignored behavior from John that ran from simply concerning to outright criminal. For example, sometime during the 80s, John took a stick of dynamite and blew up a litter of newborn baby foxes for no apparent reason. Yeah, it's called Foxcatcher and a Fox blow-up. Foxxploder. Yeah. Foxxploder is a cool, the album name.

25:37Yeah. Yeah. It's Foxxploder that's like a disco punk album from like 2005. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Next from less Foxxploder. And while some might say sure, he can do what he wants, it's his property. Most people don't have tanks on their property, like John DuPont had. Somehow John had bought a tank that had been stripped of its weapons. And John used it to drunkenly joyride the vehicle around the estate, sometimes even brought it up for local parades. Around Christmas time 1984, a police officer and his wife, who were living in one of Foxcatcher farms, many houses, they said they heard the tank a common. John was of course drunk and had driven the tank through the trees. This was the type of tank that sank the political career of Michael DuCockis. You remember Michael DuCockis with his goofy little head sitting up like outside like he's writing the tank and he's got the helmet and he's looking so happy. And that's why George H.W. Bush won the presidency because that's too a fucking tank.

26:37The old days, one embarrassing picture. Yeah. Could destroy your entire career. And it's not even that embarrassing. Like, look it up. He's just like grinning. He's having a good time. But guess what that is? It's raging. Yeah. That makes me angry. Just see, honestly, truly, look at Michael DuCockis smile. And tell me, you don't want to absolutely destroy it. Yeah. Or with Dan Quail, misspelled potato ruined his life. Yeah. There's the only thing a wheat, it's like number one joke in Mad Magazine for good five years. Yeah. Yeah. It's all Jay Leno said. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, maybe if you learn how to stop potato, how do you want me to bet it? Yeah. Unbelievable. Well, this is the one, of course, where the head goofily sticks out the top. And since John had just barrelled right through a bunch of tree branches, he was covered in blood. His face was a scratch to shit. But John had no fear driving a tank drunk and bleeding up to a cop's house, even if it was on his own property.

27:38Instead, John parked the tank out front and yelled for the officer to quote, come out of play. Come out of play. You own all the land. And there's a fence around the land. And you own the tank on that land. Can you not drive the tank drunk? I know. I don't think you can. You know driving, even on property, because they did this with, this actually came down with the Bill Murray case, with the golf cart, because they were trying to, he was basically said all that. And they're like, well, you're drunk in a moving vehicle. We caught you. Yeah. Because by that logic, you could murder someone. But hey, it's on my own property. Yeah. Yeah. You have to, you have to not. Yeah. But the worst thing John deponded in the 80s, which, again, it's all relative here, was when he was driving his Lincoln Continental and hit a flagman directing traffic. He hit a traffic cop with his car in broad daylight. Yeah, the dressed in yellow wave and flags. Not a good thing to do.

28:38Now that's what I made you talking right now. I think God, he made himself so obvious. When John hit him, the traffic cop rolled over John's hood and then slammed onto the ground. And John did at the very least stop. He dragged the obviously injured traffic cop to the sidewalk and sat with them for a few moments. But eventually he just said, you'll be all right. And then drove away just as the police arrived. You know, I would like to ask you the question, love, why aren't you flat? And then I hit things with my gun that they would turn into flat little pancakes to paper like paper. Good thing you went up and knocked down. And then I understand, you want to jump like a raven? Why aren't you? You're starting to fall in the Don Corley on territory. Yeah. Yeah. What am I doing? What am I doing? Well, John, he just drove to his estate and fucked off somewhere in his helicopter. And when he returned to Foxcatcher Farms, the only consequence faced for the hit and run of a traffic cop was a meager fine for $42.50.

29:41Might as well be fucking pocketland to a guy like John DePont. Yeah. Well, John DePont's interest in athletics ran from swimming to target shooting. He eventually settled upon wrestling as his number one love. Although nobody is exactly sure why John DePont became obsessed with wrestling, just as no one can answer the question of why he was obsessed with birds or swimming or target shooting. He just found something and hyper focused on it for sometimes years at a time. What I have also found in smaller market areas for rich people, like you could buy the entire scene. Right? Like it's one of the, where you just get to skip past everybody. We were joking about how I got to meet, like if you show interest in a small world, you can get access to everybody. What I met, a lot of like professional blowing glass artists. Yeah. All of a sudden, you can meet everybody that's ever been the top of blowing glass if you ask them. You know what I mean? You guys go meet them. They're excited to meet you. You know, they wanted what they were like, DuPont might have understood

30:41if you choose an obscure thing, you can own it entirely. It's a damn good point. Yeah. And those people are going to want to talk because no one ever asked them about it. Yeah. Here's my theory. I think that he got into wrestling. Not because he was homosexual or anything, but because he found it to be the only way he would ever touch a person. You know what? That's the, that really there could be something to that. Yeah. The tactile need he has. You can see he's like a little boy. He just feel like a little boy. Like he looks like a little boy that's never been hugged. And this is how he can get millions and millions and millions of hugs. Well, John had wrestled in high school, but in 1986, competitive wrestling became John DuPont's new obsession. But this was John's first obsession that actually involved other people and it would eventually end in murder. John DuPont was not interested in the professional wrestling we see on TV. He wasn't trying to hang out with Jake the snake rovers. Yeah. The real wrestling. Yeah. The real Christmas.

31:41I'm going to get the fucking shit. Be it out of me, guys. I'm just listening. I'm barely straight. Yeah. Okay. Or rather, John became obsessed with the Olympic style of competitive wrestling where two guys just walk on to a mat and grapple each other until one of them gets pinned for a single second. It's not a three-fall. It's just, one. I know, it's annoying. I always thought it was three. You hear that sound? The relaxing sounds. They ASMR world. Khaledja wrestling. Fuck. Oh, I'm coming. Oh, you got me so good. You were doing so good. You got me so good. You started saying that you did not think that wrestling, and now- My legs, my legs, my legs. My legs. My legs. My legs. My legs. My legs. My legs. My legs. My legs. My legs. My legs. My legs. And with deeper- What, how long rob? 20 minutes? Deeper. 35 minutes. Get me with it. You fucker.

32:41Get me with it. You fucking my girlfriend. You know why it's not gay? No gay man would choose to do something that would ruin his ears like that. Ah! My picture perfect ear. They're back in the 80s. Wrestling was not what you would call America's sport. A lot of colleges didn't even have wrestling programs. And John Dupont noticed that nearby Villanova University was totally bereft of sweaty young men tussling with each other on a competitive level. So John convinced Villanova, and by convinced, I mean he gave him a lot of money, to let him start an NCAA team from scratch. Now in the mid 80s, the best competitive wrestler in America was arguably a man named Dave Schultz. John wanted Dave Schultz as Villanova's wrestling coach. But Dave had just gotten a raise coaching at Stanford University. So Dave suggested his brother, Mark Schultz, who was also a gold medal winning competitive wrestler. Now the Schultz brothers have a fascinating story

33:43all on their own. Born in Palo Alto, California in 1959 and 1960, the Schultz brothers were natural athletes. In fact, their parents said that Mark Schultz had a six pack and sculpted muscles by the age of four, which sounds like a bizarre and terrifying sight to behold. Yeah, Mark, I tried to see parts. No, Mark. That's my boy. Yeah, Mark. It's a kind of build you get on a boy from slave labor. You can't get it anymore. You can't make a boy build a boat anymore. I remember watching an episode of Mori once. It was like the world's most musli kids. I remember that. You remember that, yeah. I remember that. I remember that. I remember that. I remember that. Millie Kal CPA up. Yeah, you have a mallet? Yeah. I heard his mallet was even dilated. He just ripped and opened himself. Yeah, he walked out standing up. Now, while Mark came to be known as the sledgehammer for the brutal wrestling style he developed, his brother Dave was described as the Yoda of wrestling.

34:45See, Dave was dyslexic and the way his brain was wired enabled him to master the technical aspects of wrestling, which led to the creation of new winning techniques and strategies. Dave Shultz changed the game. He was a fucking animal. He was. And I love, well, I actually started like looking up his matches, like watching him go, like actually made me see more of the sport truly. Like, he's a fucking monster and I love hairy back. Yeah. That's what I love. So you never see these fuckers anymore. Yeah, like a King Kong Bundy. I love it. Just hairy and just fucking I love that fucking guy. When I loved about Dave Shultz from what I could tell, I could be wrong. Is that, you know, like Mark was very intense, but Dave was like shake your hand, smile at you, hang out with your type of guy. Yeah. And then fight you to the death. That's what Mark said. Mark said he's like, don't ever fool, don't let him fool you. He's like never let his personality fool you. He was the most brutal motherfucker he's ever met to wrestle with on the face of the planet. Dave Shultz was like a master.

35:45Yeah. Now, since wrestling was neither a popular nor a well-funded sport, the Shultz is ended up in low-paying assistant coaching jobs after college, like most competitive wrestlers who wanted to make wrestling a career. But even though both of them had to move back in with their dad in Palo Alto, and this really gives you a perspective on competitive athletics, they both competed in the 1984 Olympics. They both won gold medals. They were the first brothers in history to even win medals at the same Olympic Games, much less win the gold. Despite their accomplishments, though, there were no financial opportunities for competitive wrestlers, no sponsorship deals for singlets. And the Shultz brothers seemed to feel like pro wrestling was beneath them. So the Shultz had limited means of making money if they wanted to make wrestling a full-time gig, and that cannot be that is probably the most important aspect of the story. You mean to tell me you don't think that it was worth it for them to put on like sort of like a semi-garb of another race, go to another place and do steroids, your name

36:50is Tataaka now, your name's Tataaka, your reign of Ameritain. Dave Shultz, let me guess, Japanese, and you are, you know, like he's got to go in there and then that's got to be heard. Can you play Arab? Yeah, because we need them, yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, Shakespeare's looking, he's getting a little... Let me show you. Let me show you. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if they made him the rabbi. Yeah. Wow. The wrestling rabbi is a great idea. I really think anyone take it, if you're a wrestler, you're looking for an identity, please be the rabbi. And actually, he wouldn't have to change his name at all, it's like, hello, my name is David Shultz on the wrestling rabbi. Yeah, come here. Come here, come here. Come here, come close. I'm going to make this a press. Oh, and he said to put the circumcision, he said to me, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, on that synabomination against God's creation, can you believe it? Where did he get the little knife?

37:52The things got desperate for Mark Shultz when he was fired from his coaching job at Stanford University in the summer of 1986. That meant that Mark had no place to train for the upcoming 1988 Olympics. I will also see why his family was really asking about that. I can see why because if he's spending all of this money, you would assume that if he's a new ponte, according to the family, that he would have a view on a long form business plan, right? And what's funny about wrestling is that there was none. There's no money to be made. No. So he was just that's kind of, I think that's a part of the reason why they were like, why you're literally just flushing money, you're just giving money away. Yeah. Oh, you mean how the rest of the Dupont saw John, oh, yeah, no, you're just giving money to these strangers. Yeah. Yeah, they didn't see the point of it, because of course, horse racing, you might win some, but that's the thing. Horse racing is horse trading and breeding and sell the horse. There's other ways to make money people buy tickets to go, yeah, they make money within that. That's why, yes, the horse racing is actually extremely lucrative and all of the world

38:56of it. So you could see why they're like, no one makes money off of this. Unless it's like the big five sports, we do not take care of our athletes, especially our Olympic athletes in America, other countries like literally, you can make it your career and you have a good life and you have a nice house, but in America, we could give a shit. Well, no, we run on the capitalist, we run the capitalist model of like, if it's worth something, then a rich, weirdo will dain upon himself to give you money to do your thing. Or you have to wait until somebody makes it like, I have decided that this is valuable enough to give you money. And all of America's are really good at what we do here too is that if you're already making money, then help comes. Yeah. So that'll happen. As you've you became, if he went and he got a gold medal and then he put out an album and then he did it and he was already making all this money, other stuff would come to help him make more money. Yeah. Well, in Mark Schultz's moment of greatest desperation, he's lost his job at Stanford. He needs to train for the 88 Olympics.

39:57That is when Mark Schultz got a call from John Dupont. John called up Mark and told him about this wrestling job at Villanova. He told him that Mark would have the opportunity at the age of 26 to build a program from the ground up. And it did seem weird, too good to be true, some might say, but John told Mark repeatedly that his only motivation for hiring him, doing the program, all of it was the elevation of wrestling. It had to be. Well, I mean, it's not necessarily, it had his motivations were far worse. Yeah, they were real motivations were far worse, but finding funding for these sorts of athletic endeavors, it's the number one problem faced by elite athletes in America. And Mark hoped that wrestling was finally going to have a money man who would support his sport regardless of cost. This was also wrapped up in the Cold War because the Russians had consistently produced the best wrestlers in the world. And this goes to your point, Eddie, this is due to the fact that Soviet wrestlers, like all Soviet Olympic athletes, the reason why the Soviets were always so incredible at the

41:01Olympics is because these people lived and competed only for the glory of the Soviet Union. They had no other responsibilities and they'd spent their entire lives training. Yeah, they'd train against bears from what I hear. And so if America had the capitalist version of that set up, IE, a rich weirdo with a lot of time on his hands, then maybe American wrestlers could compete in the world championships on a consistent basis. It's not an incorrect idea. It's not. So despite the fact that Mark felt that John Dupont was at the very least hiding something, he said yes to John's offer. Now, when Mark met John Dupont for the first time, Mark said that he immediately got the vibe that John was a massive loser. As Mark put it, John Dupont was like richy rich, all grown up with a drug problem. And also had a bizarre appearance. John Dupont was nearly 50 years old by the time he met Mark. And since he was going gray, he had taken to dyeing his hair.

42:02Problem was John had chosen Ronald McDonald Red as his hair color. And he hadn't kept up with it. So his natural gray hair color had taken over. Gray roots red on the side and he had this weird middle part hair cut. He's very strange hair cut. Yeah. Honestly, if I saw that hair cut, I would have turned around. I feel like it's that their hair cut was the very first warning. And the redness left in John's hair only highlighted the thick layer of dandruff that covered John's head. John also had dark yellow teeth caked with food. And when John started talking, it was obvious that he was either drunk, stoned, or both. This is their first meeting. Mark, however, had called around to his wrestling buddies for advice on what to do in this situation. And every single one of them had told him that this was an unbelievable situation and opportunity that he could not pass up. So Mark decided that he was going to put up with John Dupont's weirdness for the good of the sport. Remind me of every single thing, every little girl and Southern Florida was saying about

43:08Epstein, about what was going on. And then every of all their friends that were all bedded in and were telling him the same thing. Just being like, it's a lot of money. Yeah. I was watching the behind the scenes on the making of the movie Fox catcher with Steve Correll and everyone who knew John Dupont that saw Steve Correll on set was like, it's unbelievable. He's got everything. He looks exactly like him. He acts just like him. He's got everything that's similar to him, except for the smell. Yeah. John Dupont looked like a guy legitimately. He looked like he fucking reeked. Yeah. Now amongst John Dupont's many shortcomings, he had no social skills, which translated to horrendous table manners. John would talk with his mouth full, spraying food and spit all over anyone unlucky enough to sit next to him during a meal. Before long, Mark recognized that John was the most miserable man he'd ever met. But it wasn't just because he was strange and difficult. Mark quickly saw how manipulative John Dupont can be. He saw how John Dupont saw the world.

44:09All the manipulation always came down to money. Like most people with generational wealth and the level of the Duponts, John knew how much power his money allowed him to have over other people. And John truly believed that everyone had their price. And if they didn't have a price, John had the power to ruin whoever didn't play by his rules once they were in his immediate orbit and remember how small of a world competitive wrestling is. Yeah. Now John was vague when Mark asked how involved John was going to be in the wrestling program at Villanova. But he did give the impression that he would be largely absent. But I don't even know I'm here. Mark of course quickly discovered when he started at Villanova in the fall of 1986 that this was a lie. See John had told Mark that the school was going to build a dedicated wrestling facility on campus. But when that didn't manifest, John insisted on training the Villanova wrestlers at his facility at Foxcatcher Farm, which honestly was probably John's plan all along. Oh, yeah. Mark also came to realize that part of his job was to be in John Dupont's crew, so to

45:13speak. See, not too long after starting his job at Villanova, Mark was invited over to John's estate, where he was surprised to find a party already in progress. To a guy like Mark, the whole thing was immediately weird. It was just a room full of mysterious men in suits. And soon Mark was introduced to a guy named Bob, who John said was his quote unquote, events organizer. Now know what you're thinking. Bob was no Jelaine Maxwell, rather Bob's main job was to organize and host awards ceremonies that John Dupont held in his own honor, complete with awards that John would commission from the local trophy shop and award them to himself. That's worse than a Jislay Maxwell. I feel like with a Jislay Maxwell, at least you're getting blown, you're getting sex out of it. Just the idea of you setting up a fake award ceremony thing to say. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, but you'd get something out of it where something like this is like, you're just getting a trophy. They're all looking at each other. It's very strange. It's very, very strange.

46:14It's extremely strange. Man, I bet that trophy guy didn't ask no question, so no, no, I bet when John Dupont was arrested, I bet that that fucking trophy shop guy, I bet he shot himself in the fucking hat. It's over. I'm overextended on so many lousy stuff and he had a private school. On that night, John was drunker than usual and as drunk people usually are, he was therefore more exhausting. Mark said that John had the ability to suck the life out of people and most of the guests were either annoyed or worn out by John before Mark even showed up. He's a psychic vampire like of the of the utmost of the highest level. When Mark walked in, John sarcastically called him pal, loudly saying quote, thank God you're here. Pal. There you go. But John then got on his hands and knees and crawled up to mark, Mark barely knew John

47:16at this point. Oh boy. John then grabbed Mark by the waist and clawed up Mark's body while repeatedly calling him pal. Hey, my big old pal, big old wide pal, I remember fucking no balls on you. I'm sure everyone present side, rolled their eyes and looked at their watches. Yeah. A lot of times, you know, like that's interesting whenever you meet someone who's like that rich and crazy because then you're just looking at it because they get away with it because they're so rich and you're like, man, it's crazy, man, you're like excited about it first. Of course. Yeah. But the differences here is that all the other people in the room, they've seen it all before. Oh, there are. And with Mark, this is his new boss. And he is starting to see like, oh, this is what I signed up for. Fuck me. So I should stand up to Henry. No, no, no, do not learn. The John Dupont did stay out of the Villanova Athletics Department for the first few weeks

48:16of the job. Because while the training facilities were out at Foxcatcher, Mark's office on the Villanova campus was shared with the school's baseball coach, but pretty quickly, John started to drop him by drunk high or both, barging into Mark's office to rant for hours on end using a highly annoying vocal tech. See after every statement, John was known to end his rant with the phrase, you know what I'm saying? And this is John's way to get people to acknowledge him. No matter how bizarre his statements were, an example Mark Schultz gave in his book, John want showed up to his office and said, quote, I'm really crazy.

49:24This is why Mark was in his office trying to do paperwork. He's a fucking 26 year old dude who's just been like, hey, build a fucking wrestling program at one of the most well known colleges in America. Yeah. But since John Dupont had donated so much money to Villanova, money that spread far beyond the fledgling wrestling program, he was pretty much allowed to do whatever he wanted. Nobody at Villanova ever said no to John Dupont. In fact, it soon became part of Mark Schultz's job description to deal with Dupont whenever John wanted to drop by the campus in Yammer, which became an increasingly frequent occurrence as the months went by. Man, you know, it was already hard to sell from that actually do paperwork. Yeah. Yeah. He's a fucking lifelong wrestler. He's been an assistant coach. Yeah. And that's the only job that he's had is assistant wrestling coach. I was always so annoying whenever like you get good enough of your job and like kitchens and shit, they make you a chef and the next thing you know, you're the manager's like, I just know what a cook. Yeah. I'm doing schedules. Yeah. Yeah.

50:24Yeah. Doing wing math. Yeah. Like, you know how to do onion rings. Let's see you do taxes. Now since this program Villanova was new, it was difficult to attract wrestlers. So after John hired a wrestler named Chuck Yarnall as head coach, John and Chuck would roam the Villanova campus looking for guys wearing high school wrestling t-shirts. Nothing gave about any of them. Nothing remotely. First time I agree with it. They would then approach these guys unsolicited and say, Hey, you want to join a wrestling team? Well, they ask me a question. How do you feel about taking that wrestling from that shirt to my body? Well, to try to entice guys who were on the fence about wrestling for a drunk weirdo with bright red hair, costing them on their way to class, John would give these guys rides on his private jet or rides on his helicopter. He would promise them full scholarships, even though he had no authority to do so. This method, of course, did not turn up any all stars.

51:24So John and Chuck gave up after a few weeks, just roaming the campus, took them a while to realize, Hey, Mark Schultz is an actual gold medal winning wrestler. Maybe we should get him to do the recruiting. Yes. Chuck started doing the recruiting. The program did start to attract some pretty solid wrestlers. Villanova, I think they'd still are pretty well known for the wrestling. Are they? Slovenia in general is a big wrestling state. Yeah. Yeah. Right behind. I think Iowa's the biggest and then Pennsylvania is like number two. I believe. So I'm sure I'll get you all that. Yeah. I know. Yeah. I think they are pretty huge. I think Wisconsin might be number one. But I do definitely think that if you put your thumb on the scale with that kind of money in this world, it does crazy stuff. But on the collegiate level, this was back before they were like, Hey, we need to keep money in college separate. Like on the collegiate level, his money really didn't do a whole lot. It wasn't until he took it out of the collegiate, the collegiate sphere that his money really made a difference. Now, the group that will become the infamous team Foxcatcher was a different entity from

52:27the Villanova wrestling team that Mark had been hired to rebuild. Team Foxcatcher started as more of an all around athletics program that included training for swimming, the Patathalon and the triathlon, because you believe his first obsession was the pentathlon. He did. Yes. He was, well, it was swimming first and then it was the pentathlon. The pentathlon. Is that the one with shooting to or is that the, the, the, the, the, was the other one, the 10 one? I have no idea. Which one's the one where you race to a woman? She's stuck in a well. You have to pull the penny hose down before the water is a thing. Fencing shoot the guy in the pussy, the trans man in the pussy and a modern pentathlon was fencing, swimming, equestrian show jumping and a combined laser run of pistol shooting and running. Jesus Christ. That is strictly for rich people. Yeah. Oh, yeah. This is just about killing humans for sport. Oh, yeah. You're sort of. Now jump on your voice and now have your high powered laser rifle like we'll come

53:28on. I admittedly, I did since this is quick, I did read that off of AI. So that my God knows if that's true or not, but still that's fun as hell. I want to do that sport. Yeah. Yeah. I want to ride on my horse with a sword and a gun and either hand and think about that. Put them all together. One act all together. Two people on a horse's sword gun. Who kills the other first? Yeah. And then we could bring it like the pro wrestling angle into it and we could give you a turban and call you the Sultan. Oh, yeah. Yeah, especially because I got all that brown makeup in my suitcase. Well, wrestling was actually added to team Fox catcher later. And it was done with such little thought at the beginning that the wrestlers had to put down mats in the shooting range and train in there. But since the clearance is low in shooting ranges to prevent ricochets, the wrestlers couldn't lift each other above their heads, lest they smash each other into the ceiling. That's fun though. It is fun. Once the program moved out to Fox catcher farms, John began throwing around cash to recruit

54:30non-collegiate wrestlers, guys who had won competitions, but didn't have any other avenue to make money. And that is when Dave Schultz, John Dupont's eventual murder victim, joined his brother Mark in Pennsylvania. Now, Dave was still coaching on a collegiate level and figured he could draw two paychecks here. And since Mark didn't think his brother had any intention of leaving coaching, he didn't warn Dave about what an incredibly annoying weirdo John Dupont could beat. Pretty soon, once more burly men started showing up at Fox catcher farms, along with Dave, this day was the draw. That's how we feel men are together. It's just a bunch of fucking clam meat. Just giant meat. Yeah. After that, Mark got the feeling that John Dupont was collecting wrestlers, just like he collected seashells and stuffed birds, and John's father had collected horses. The difference is that wrestlers are actual human beings, but that means they're also far

55:31more fun for someone like John Dupont to manipulate. He saw them as toys as objects. And according to Mark, if you did not want to be displayed on John's wall like an object, things could go very bad very quickly. But soon became obvious that this whole wrestling thing was heavily wrapped up in John Dupont's ego. In 1988, John hired a camera crew for a documentary about himself called Quest for the Best, which actually aired on the Discovery Channel. John also wrote a 115 page book called Off the Map, Building Winners in Life. But it's almost certain someone else took the brunt of the writing because while Mark never saw John Dupont writing a book, he did hear John drunkenly dictating the book into a tape recorder from time to time. Mark was also asked to write the forward for the book, but the finished product was published with an addition put in by John Dupont. While the draft that Mark Schultz turned in mentioned nothing about John's coaching,

56:32the finished product had Mark saying that he could not have accomplished anything without John's guidance. Not even this forward, which I did not write me not being John Dupont. John also made Mark's life more difficult in other ways, seemingly just to play with him. John made Mark fire Villanova's head coach, that guy that you said wander the campus with. Yeah. Yeah. It's important, but instead of giving Mark the job, John Dupont took the title of head coach for himself, Villanova, of course, followed John's lead by releasing a statement saying, no, no, no, no, no, John Dupont's always been the head coach. John also tried controlling and manipulating Mark by nickel and diming him, throwing a fit about the cost of paper clips one day, then taking a private jet to another country the next just so John could fire the starting gun at a triathlon. Well, it seems like it just wasn't going fast enough for him.

57:32Well, I think John was also a person who he could get emotionally dysregulated very easily. There were not a lot of people in his life that were forced to be around him, people that he could take that out on. And Mark Schultz was forced to be it was part of Mark's job to take the brunt of John Dupont's emotional dysregulation. Well, he's one of those guys that believes every single interaction with humans is transactional. Yeah. So on some level, like it goes away from, it developed, I feel like I wonder, it's like a selfishness bordering on sociopathy that you wonder if it's clinical or not. Like you don't know whether or not it's like he literally can't have empathy for other human beings. Or is he just fucking lost in the sauce of many different mental illness descriptions, rampant alcohol and drug use and just be in just a straight up fucking weirdo. I mean, it does like raise the question of like if you're raised with this amount of

58:34extreme wealth, like I know that you know, most people who are raised with this amount of extreme wealth, like they don't look at the rest of us as people, but it even begs the question, do they even look at each other as people? I doubt it. Do they see? Do they have the sort of, you know, interaction that is necessary to make a human? Apple Paltrow's going to decide who lives or dies. Do you want to understand that? She's going to decide. That's who's going to decide. Lily Rose Depp is going to lead the ground invasion of Iran. It's what's going to happen. She's doing great job. I think she's great there. Is she part vampire? No, she's part pirates. Vampire pirates. Sorry. That's right. I'm not wrong. I'm not wrong. I'm not wrong. I'm not wrong. The Mark Schultz really was trying his damnedest to get a wrestling program going Villanova, but John was nothing but a hindrance, shouting and arguing with both wrestlers and coaches.

59:35John then brought guns into the mix, waving them around to practice while dressed as a cop just to see the wrestler scatter. All right. It's out for me to see who here's got the littlest butt in the guy who's got the littlest butt goes to to pump jail, which is in my house. We're going to see what he got in. He got into his pack. Is he going to stick me? Absolutely. John also got highly inappropriate with the wrestlers, as was demonstrated by a so-called move that John invented called the Fox Catcher 5. Was this in the movie? No. It was not in the movie. It was not in the documentary. Really surprised. I mean, I'm not surprised it wasn't in the documentary. Surprised it wasn't in the movie. It would have been great in the movie. Yeah. I think a problem with it is that if Steve Carell was doing the Fox Catcher 5, it will be funny. Yeah. That is true. It's going to be really funny. Yeah. Well, in this move, John would simply grab a wrestler's testicles with his whole

1:00:38hand. That's it. It's just grabbing a guy's balls and calling it a move. It's not move. No, I mean, it's a move. It's a move of sorts. Now, Mark said that he was going to be on the receiving end of the Fox Catcher 5 one day. And John held out his hand like a claw and moved towards Mark's cross, playfully saying close. The Fox Catcher 5, the Fox Catcher 5 is coming here is the Fox Catcher 1, Fox Catcher 2. And my favorite Fox Catcher 3, of course, they get the middle. The Fox Catcher 4, the Fox Catcher, oh, the pinky comes around the corner of the balls. It's so hard not to hit you, I don't know how these guys say that day. But it was possible to make John back off in these moments. And after Mark gave him a withering stare, John ended the bit. I guess he said that people find things funny and I guess people don't find things funny.

1:01:38Other wrestlers, however, were not so lucky. A lot of them got their balls grabbed by John DePont at Fox Catcher Farms. And since John was giving them all opportunities that otherwise wouldn't exist, the ball grabbing became just another thing to put up with. This is where I will put the idea that John DePont, again, I was making jokes talking about all the stuff, but really it's about like masculine horse play that he has no idea how to do. Yes. He does not know how to engage with these big strong men. He wants to be a big strong man and thinks he is a big strong man and he thinks that just collecting the big strong men around him will make him one. And I think in that way, this is one of those like nut tapers scenarios that all men have to deal with. Where you have to deal with everybody doing pain games with each other. But he's doing it as a thin, needle faced, weird nerd against a bunch of actual, very powerful men that probably should have broke his body. Well, they also knew that once he started like grabbing on them and wrestling on them that they would just have to let him do his thing.

1:02:40Oh, yeah. Just can't honestly if he gets up at you, let him finish. Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny to watch him wrestle these guys like the footage. There's so much footage of John DePont trying to wrestle these world class athletes in the documentaries. And he just, he looks like a fish trying to wrestle a man. Yeah. He's like, he's like just kind of flopping back and forth between their hands and like circling around them like they're like they're in a jitterbug contest. And you can, the wrestlers are trying to figure out how to let him win. Yes. Now, relations between Mark and John unsurprisingly began to disintegrate, but not because of Mark's performance. Mark actually won the 1987 World Championships of Wrestling. He demolished the Soviets just like he hoped he could. But Mark was not behaving in the way that John wanted him to. So on Christmas day, 1987, John called up Mark and fired him from Villanova, adding that Mark shouldn't even come back to campus because quote, the cops were looking for him.

1:03:40Now, Mark hoped that he could still train at Foxcatcher farms because he was desperate. He had seen what he could accomplish with John's financial backing. The Americans could finally compete with the Russians. I can't stress enough. Watch the 30 for 30 to see him really describe the wrestler's life. Like that's what I really appreciated about that documentary about how he had two jobs. When he was training for the Olympics and he was doing, it's just, it's, it's, it's thankful. Also training for wrestling is harder than any other sport. Yeah. But when Mark went back to John's mansion in January of 1988 to ask, Hey, can I still train here? He found John just as drunk as ever yelling and repeating. What else but? Yeah. I was saying. I was saying. Who are you saying? I'm saying. I'm saying. You understand what I'm saying. You understand what I'm saying. You can go back, but the only condition is that you got to live on the farm.

1:04:42Edelies, just say, would we're all watching TV? Your favorite seat is this right? Me. Right, Peter. Yeah, you got to wear this horse suit if you look. Mark went on a carrot. I'm going to have you on the top of that apple. That's a cute apple. Mark, of course, agreed. It was free rent next to a training facility. Even though the same person offering said free rent was the same guy who'd fired Mark from his job for no reason just weeks earlier. So take that money. It's cool. That's all y'all. I know what fucking rich ass dumb ass guy. It's just pouring money in your life. You take that money, but then you leave. I say do not take the money because the money always comes with strings attached every single fucking time with these rich assholes. It always always either he wants to be your friend. You're you're going to have to do something that you really do not want to do. And they'll give you just enough to make you not successful. Yeah, well, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

1:05:44No, there's not. And so Mark moved into the chalet right next to the big house on Fox Catcher Farms about a month after he'd been fired. And he soon discovered that if John was a bad boss, he was an even worse neighbor. John would randomly barge in a Mark's house rantin' and raven with a gun in his hand. And John once showed Mark a video of a surveillance van shooting lasers into a house window made it possible to hear the conversations inside the house via the window's vibrations. This of course was a clear threat to Mark saying that John was always watching. But in between threats, John actually started opening up to Mark. One day John was making them both sandwiches when he suddenly told Mark the story about how he lost his testicles in the horse accident. Now put some peanut butter jelly and smash them together. This reminds me. Well, John admitted, hey, I got plastic in my scrotum where my balls should be.

1:06:45And that while he was supposed to take testosterone shots every day, he did forget sometimes. And this I would imagine only contributed to John Dupont's instability up and down and up and down. Now John Dupont tried running Villanova's wrestling team by himself after he fired Mark, but he had absolutely no idea what he was doing. The team's morale, which was now coached by the instigator of the Fox Catcher 5, it plummeted. And when Mark moved to the farm, John decided to shut down the Villanova Wrestling Program to focus on team Fox Catcher, which was by this point mostly wrestlers. And so with a whole stable of the best competitive wrestlers in America, living in various houses on Fox Catcher Farms, John threw himself completely into the world of competitive wrestling. He donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to USA Wrestling. That's the organization that covers freestyle and Greco-Roman Wrestling nationwide. What's the difference between the two? Freestyle, you can use and attack the legs.

1:07:47Greco-Roman, you cannot use any holds below the waist or attack the legs. That's the only difference. Oil-y. Yeah, well, I was like, Greco-Roman, it was more served with like a shaved cheese. And that with freestyle, normally you don't want to serve it with cheese. With Greco-Roman before you wrestled, they actually measure your back hair. And if it's not at a certain length, you're not allowed. Is back hair not a liability for a wrestler? Or does it make you slick? Like, if you cover yourself up with a girl, like, that's what I'd do. If I got in there, I'd cover myself with like gasoline or something. I would think that hair actually makes you, I would think it would be a hindrance because they'd make you more tactile. Easier to grab on to. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I'm surprised, but that's how good Dave Schultz was. He was just slick to the touch, like a fucking beaver. He would velcro onto the other wrestlers. He said it was like a wrestling David Schultz was like wrestling a python. Yeah. Is what this hairy python is. Yeah, it's me, baby. Yeah, fucker. Well, you certainly are kind of like one length up and down throughout your whole body.

1:08:50I just had to get measured for a thing. I'm exactly the same from the bottom of my belly, all the way to my shoulder. I'm just saying measurement. It's amazing. I fully, I explained to the guy, I was actually easy to make. I thought I'm going to apple on two toothpicks. And then afterwards he was like, you weren't lying about that apple part. I got some view in the new year. Two tops. Yeah, never tried, never tried being less of you. Well, John's name was soon on everything related to USA wrestling. And he gave so much money that they had no choice, but to give him the man of the year award. But at the same time, John was becoming more erratic and with good reason. He was over 50 years old at this point. And he had injured both of his knees and his back in various athletic incidents over the years, doing shit that he was too old to do. John Dupont was therefore addicted to pain medication in addition to being an alcoholic.

1:09:52So to even himself out and to put a little zip in his step, John Dupont also began doing a lot of cocaine. Well, that's the whole thing about self-medicating. Because then if you had a one, you got to make sure you're about to out with the other. And honestly, right now, I'm not feeling right. So, here we go. I love this guy. You know, Mark, Shultz actually said that when John Dupont did cocaine, that was when he was his most coherent. Honestly, great for coke. That's a great advertisement for cocaine. Yeah. It's probably ADHD in this guy. It's good old stimulants. I could talk for hours when I did cocaine. Back to the day, cocaine was clean too, man. Yeah. Oh, wow. You could just do it without dying. Everybody did. Yeah. So many people did cocaine without dying. Nobody ever died. Okay, man. They only died of being a fucking pussy. Yeah. And their nose blew. Or from being too cool. Yeah. That's the other way to die from cocaine. Yeah. Too cool lift. Well, as far as where John Dupont got his coke, he certainly had a dealer.

1:10:53But Mark said that one night, John showed up with a kilo of cocaine in a big bag marked evidence in big orange letters. This is the evidence that we're about to do a whole night's worth of cocaine. I'm just like, you know, I'm not just going to go, it's cold. That's a bit of a crime. I know what the crime's going to be at a time. That's a bit of a murderous thing. Mark didn't think that the cops had just given John a kilo of cocaine. Instead, Mark believed that John, remember, John loved cosplaying as a cop. And remember, he had a badge that the local cops had given him. Mark thought that John just put on the badge, put on the uniform, and then used his incredible amount of unearned confidence to just walk into the evidence locker, to local PD to take whatever he wanted. What if he just rode it on there? Now this is cool. Such a funny joke. This is funny, funny stuff. Man, I just always, whenever I think of an evidence locker, I don't know why, but I always like, where's the crossbow? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

1:11:53No, where's the crossbow section, you mean? Let me just make sure I got to sneak into the evidence area. Let me be sure you got to tip to pass the sleeping pills. Oh, that's where a little Mexican merchant voter is. Now, since John Dupont was obscenely wealthy, it's like a Panther, but weird. What in my mind, I imagine him, is he in his head, he's pink Panther, he's pink Panther, and everybody else, he's John Dupont. Yep. Now, since John Dupont was obscenely wealthy, the media naturally tried as hard as they could to pinpoint an exact moment when he, quote, unquote, changed. They, of course, wanted to explain away his behavior and the subsequent murder that he committed. Often, they would point to the death of John's mother in 1988 as the turning point, because John's mother was the only family member who would have anything to do with him throughout his entire life. The media said that John became untethered after his mother's death, but Mark Schultz maintains that after John's mother died, absolutely nothing changed.

1:12:55And Mark would know, because he was actually living on John's estate when John's mother died. He was in the chalet next to the mansion. And John was constantly coming in. And John liked to talk. And if it really bothered him, he would have talked about it endlessly. Oh, yes. Mark said that John Dupont never really had much to say about his mother's death, said it didn't really affect him. He was just as weird after the death as he was before. Mark, however, eventually had enough of Foxcatcher Farms by 1990. You know what, it could be interesting, is that because the mother, there was a couple of times when he was throwing his own awards ceremonies where his mother would come from the main house, because she was living with him in the house. And what she do is, in perfect, old, rich, lady form, she'd sit there and just shake her head. And every single time she'd go, she'd just be like, I don't know why he was so obsessed with this. Why are you doing this? And so I actually do think there was a relief when she was gone.

1:13:57Yeah. Because now he can really do whatever he wants and not have to hear fucking word one from his stupid old mother, it doesn't get. Hold on, you don't think she was nice? No, she didn't get it, dude. She didn't swear with that. But Mark, however, eventually had enough of Foxcatcher Farms by 1990. He called up his brother Dave to help him move out. And after enduring one last paranoid rant from John Dupont, Mark broke free of Foxcatcher Farms forever. But while Mark was packing up his shit, John brought Dave Schultz over to his house to have a conversation. And just a few months after Mark Schultz left Foxcatcher, his brother Dave Schultz moved in and took a job coaching wrestling for John Dupont. The Dave Schultz was, by all accounts, a good man. He was popular, easy to talk to. And he was said that he was not only the only wrestler who could communicate with John in a way that John would listen, he was the only person on earth

1:14:57who could get John to do something that John didn't want to do. And such Dave had a pretty easy time on the farm in the beginning. He was married with kids. So rather than living next to John in the Shale, which he knew is a bad idea, he and his family moved into a house on the estate about a mile away from John's mansion. Badgers. And despite John's behavior, Foxcatcher farms had established a reputation for creating champions. And as I said, there were already several other top notch wrestlers living on the property by the time Dave Schultz moved in. All that donated money started doing its trick. Like it started really building a reputation and they started getting wins and they started getting like more like world championship wins because I think that's what Mark said is that he won against the Russians again and that was like a big deal. And they were like, it was starting to actually get the momentum. And John also understood the number one way to really give something a little bit of cred, Merch. Oh, yes. And John started making the team Foxcatcher Merch. Like he started using pictures of Mark Schultz,

1:15:57you know, in front of the American flag with his goat, with his championships and underneath it said team Foxcatcher. If I as much as I don't like this man, the Merch was kind of cool. Yeah, that's what he figured out. Yeah. Well, soon after Dave's arrival, John built the largest wrestling facility in America on Foxcatcher farms, complete with an Olympic-sized swimming pool and a mural of John Dupont competing in pentathlons. John, however, was becoming more eccentric now that he was building his own little world on his estate. He had taken to calling himself the golden eagle of America or the eagle for short. Oh, yeah. And he began theming his personal spaces to reflect his new chosen nickname. He had a plaque engraved and mounted on the door of his office that said, the eagle's nest, which is incredibly douchey. But the bizarre addition to this office was a big round bed. The John surrounded with sticks, which made it appear as if it was a literal eagle's nest.

1:16:58Yes, I'd you will be surprised at the lack of eggs. Just imagine like getting up in the middle of the night just cutting your feet on sticks and being happy about it. Oh, yes. I'm an eagle. Oh, yeah. For God's call. I like it. Now, Mark Schultz kept in touch with his brother Dave and all his other wrestler friends out at Foxcatcher farms. So while the information we have from here on out is second hand, the wrestler's still in John Dupont's thrall were still very forthcoming about John's increasingly erratic behavior. By the early 1990s, John had become convinced that the mansion was full of so-called spirits and spies, which that sounds like a great bar name. You know, yes, I'd go to spirits and spies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's truly whisper. You'll never go to the bathroom alone. Well, John hired a psychic to identify the spirits. He brought in laborers to check the walls and floors for spies. And he had all the mansion's columns and walls

1:18:00x-rayed for listening devices. John openly talked about his fear of interlopers with his wrestlers, telling them that they should stay on the lookout for Nazi spies hiding in the trees of the estate. You know, if I was that much, I'd be like, I caught three yesterday. Yeah. I got three yesterday. You can't believe it, man. Oh, man, I'm civilly. I spent about 1,500 uber blacking them into the prison in town. So if I could get 1,500 back to be great. Now, you get one of the other wrestlers to dress up as a Nazi soldier. You put like a mustache. I'm like, yeah, my name's Gunta. I'm sorry. Here we go. Come on. The head was just once with a stick and they all go, done. We did it. They're all gone. Well, John also became convinced that spies had built a network of tunnels underneath the mansion. And he hired people to look for these fucking tunnels. But of course, nothing was ever found. John then started removing things from the training facility, like treadmills. Because John claimed that the clocks and the treadmills were transporting him back in time. Get it. I got, honestly, fuck.

1:19:00Yeah, they do. It's once you start with that treadmills, like you're there for a fucking week, huh? Yeah. Come on, y'all. Come on, y'all. Come on, y'all. You're not out of here. I need fat. Oh, I'm not fat. I'm just fluffy. You remember that? I remember that. John also believed that rocks talked to him. And he became convinced that there was a device in his mansion that would spray a magical oil that could make people disappear. That's what I've done all my friends and loved ones. It's a 100-year-old mansion. Yeah. So he thinks there's like microphones inside of the columns of the 100-year-old mansion. He thinks that people had broken in while he wasn't there and drilled into the columns and put microphones in there and then repaired them while he was gone. And is this also the rise of him filming trees? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oh, god. He fell so much footage of him filming trees. He would film a tree for an hour, right? And then he'd become convinced that the tree could move on its own. And then he'd invite people into the main house to watch his movies of the trees. And he'd go, you see that, what above? You see that, what above?

1:20:01And they're all like, yep. The guy said that they were, that was sort of like this weird thing that they were constantly faced with. Like, okay, do I tell him that I see it and feed into the delusion? Or do I tell the truth and risk his wrath? And he's gonna make me sit here for an hour. Until I say, yeah, I see something, John. I bet he actually made some very peaceful videos that will never be able to take me taking that way. Dude, no, no, no, no, no. The same as channel. Remember when HD first started, there was a channel that was all Sunrise's? Yeah, it's not like Sunrise's channel. Close up shot. It's like not scenic. No, it's not well shot. It's like a shot of a branch for like 45 minutes. And it's him mumbling in the background. So it was annoying, yeah, it's ASMR. But the paranoid delusions were not John DePont's only fantasies. See, by this point, a Bulgarian wrestler named Valentin Urdenoff had moved to Foxcatcher Farms to be a part of John's team.

1:21:02And Valentin began setting up John to compete in wrestling matches in Bulgaria for the 50 and up crowd. The senior wrestlers. What's called masters? Masters. That's a nice way of putting it. Sue Bulgaria had been added to John's hall of obsessions. And he therefore made up stories that his mother had sex with a Bulgarian soldier and that made him Bulgarian. He was truly Bulgarian at heart. At times, he even claimed to be the president of Bulgaria. He was also very fond of claiming to be the president of Bulgaria. Sometimes he say he was the president of the Soviet Union. Do you think that's because Bulgarian, does Bulgaria have like a specific tide of the wrestling world? There's like a thing where they're making Bulgarian wrestlers are known to be quite good. But I don't think it had anything to do with that. I think it had to do with the fact that he like had a man crush on Valentin Urdenoff. And he wanted to connect with that. He really wanted to connect with them. It also wasn't an evil. No. And to be honest, I'm going to let down. John also had affection for Bulgaria

1:22:04because the matches that Valentin set up for John in Eastern Europe were fully rigged. These Bulgarian wrestlers made more money throwing matches to John Dupont than what they made wrestling in matches for an entire year. And they went to great lengths to make sure that John won. And these were not private matches. These were held in large auditoriums with big audiences. In one match, a Bulgarian wrestler had scored a bunch of points. But John was too tired by the end of it to even pretend to try to fight back. But the Bulgarian wrestler knew that he couldn't beat John Dupont. So the Bulgarian just threw himself onto his own back and pinned himself. The ref called the fight for John and the other wrestlers following this guy's lead hoisted John up on his shoulders in celebration even though everyone in the room, including John Dupont, knew that he had fully paid for this fantasy. You know, though, it does start to this is where the chipping actually kind of begins.

1:23:06It seems as when he starts doing these fake competitions that he's winning and sitting up to win and he's starting this man that has no experiences of other people's emotions or thoughts. It's starting to understand, are they making fun of me? Yeah, maybe. Well, this guy who wants to own people starts calling himself the master. You know, but the problem is that this is what we're seeing right now right in our current country. These guys get ridiculous. And then when they get ridiculous, if you laugh at them, they'll fucking kill you. Like they get rid of you. Like these guys are hyper serious about stuff that sounds really ridiculous because he's a mad man. Yeah, and he's buying his way into the, like he's trying to find a way into being a champion. He can't do it on his own. He can't do it just by training. He just doesn't have that. But he actually, he actually did get it. Like if he allowed himself to feel it because they started to win like team Fox catcher.

1:24:06But him, I'm talking about him. I'm not talking about team Fox catchers doing great. I'm talking about John Dupont wrestling another human being in actually winning. But you could actually see what he did was he set up team Fox catcher up to a point to rethought that maybe that would fulfill it. And then as they were winning. And it wasn't him. It wasn't cutting the mustard. Yeah, it really wasn't. It's not like Jerry Jones puts on fucking football pads and goes out there and tries to win a game. We don't know. We don't practice with them. Yeah, make that evil bastards had fucking explode. Oh, just I just would love love. See, fuck get Dow Johnston. Bring him out of retirement. Put him in pads. Make him fucking hit Jerry Jones. Make his fucking head explode. Pasha. Has there ever been an owner really? That's a nice guy. Never. No, no, you can't own a football team in the light and be likeable. Wouldn't the guy who owned the Browns for a while didn't people like him until he died. And then when they died, they sold the Browns. I mean, he named the team after himself. Yeah, maybe not then.

1:25:07Yeah, maybe not. Yeah. If I was going to name after myself, they'd be called the model pigs. That's too long. Well, back at the farm, John was getting more reckless. One winner's day, John drove his Lincoln Continental into a pond on his estate, likely intoxicated. A few days later, though, one of his wrestlers asked, John, hey, how'd you manage to drive your car into a pond, John? Who's the beginning of the fall of my Ponzi scheme? I was trying to burn down my Ponzi scheme for the interest. But water doesn't burn. Well, John told the wrestler, getting the back seat. I'll show you. And John proceeded to drive his Lincoln through the estate, through the trees, and directly into the same pond. Just like that. John, however, left out of the car before he hit the water. The wrestler. The wrestler was still inside the car when it hit the pond. Hey, he didn't know he was going to fucking drive into the water. Yeah, he is.

1:26:08And this is like in the middle of a Pennsylvania winner, we just experienced Pennsylvania winner. We went to Philly. Great fucking show, by the way. Thank you very much, everyone, if it was fucking amazing show. But God damn it was cold. That was cold, man. It was cold. Luckily, the wrestler got out of the car before he drowned. And although he was cold, wet, and shaken, he was physically unharmed. John, of course, just walked back to the mansion without even checking to see if the wrestler was okay. He started walking back to the mansion before the guy even got out of the car. I mean, wrestlers do find this kind of stuff funny. Yeah, this guy, some of them do, he did not. Yeah, he was like, John, you really almost got me on that one. Yeah, that's a hindsight thing. I'm telling you in the moment, he was like, this is crazy. Yeah, we're wrong. But this one, yeah, the six hours later, you're like, I almost died. Yeah. Yeah. Can you try to kill me? That was said that John would hyper fixate on a hobby or an activity until he reached the peak, at least the peak by his standards

1:27:08or until he got bored. And it is speculated that John lost all interest in wrestling in 1995. And as a result, he began getting far more reckless with his wrestlers. Yeah, this is the way you described it in the beginning. This is a, now he's sick of his toys. Yes, exactly. In October of that year, a wrestler named Dan Shade said that he was lifting weights in the Foxcatcher facility when John walked in with an assault rifle. John crouched, aimed the gun at Dan, and told him he wanted him off the farm immediately. Dan Shade told the other wrestlers what happened, but they shrugged it off like they shrugged off everything else. Dan even made a police report, but nothing came of it. After John committed a murder, however, the police said, no, no, he came by, but he didn't file the right paperwork. So he didn't sign this form. So nothing we can do. Because the problem is it crimes don't exist without paperwork. Yeah, so without them filling out the paperwork, it's like nothing happened. Yeah, so Dan Shade soon after left Foxcatcher farms.

1:28:08But when he returned, just to pick up some of the stuff, John reacted. John was, of course, extraordinarily drunk. And he showed up at Dave Schultz's house looking for Dan. Eventually, John stumbled and Dave's house slipped and gashed his head open on a windowsill. Dave Schultz and his wife took John to the local ER, which of course had a trauma center named after John Dupont. But John in true entitled Rich Cunt Form refused to fell out any forms and literally just sat there shouting, don't you know who I am. I'm asking you. Who? I can't feel I'm a squaw. I don't know who I am. It's seeded from this bag by Dave might be cocaine Johnson. I don't know it's my name ever then. But this incident was important because it caused the first break between Dave Schultz and John Dupont. Because Dave Schultz and him, he didn't really fuck with Dave Schultz the way he fucked with Mark Schultz. No, he didn't fuck with Dave Schultz at all.

1:29:09Like Dave never put up with anything. And in fact, if if Mark, if John fucked with other wrestlers, they would actually go to Dave and like, hey, can you talk to John and Tom and stop doing this? And Dave would go on the behalf of other wrestlers and explain it in a way that for some reason, John listened to, don't know why. But he did always. But this was the first time that there was a break. Dude, you know what this was? It wasn't scared of him. Do you know who he just hit me? You know who John Dupont is? Who? An aristocratic Andy Dick. Literally what he is. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, see, this is why it's fine that Andy Dick's homeless. Yes, yeah, it's good almost. See, John filed a police report of his own and he told police that Dan Shade had hit him with a baseball bat. Dan and John, however, never even saw each other when Dan Shade was on the property. And when the police questioned Dave Schultz, it's exactly what he told him. He told them the truth. But when John found out that Dave had not gone along with his lie, John requested a copy of the police report and that same report was sitting on John's desk

1:30:09in his mansion when he was arrested for murdering Dave Schultz. Now, Dave, however, had been in the process of trying to get out of the orbit of Foxcatcher farms when the murder finally came. See, by November of 1995, John Dupont had become definitely afraid of the color black and demanded that anything black be removed from the estate or it had to be painted a different color. John then extended that fear to black men and he therefore kicked three black wrestlers off team Foxcatcher because he believed that they were an extension of the evil related to the color black. And this was disturbing for all of the wrestlers. But most of them, including Dave Schultz, they stayed because they were so attached to John Dupont's money. He was in the Dave Schultz the only way I can to board him in this is that he was just like, the Olympics are like in six months. Yeah, he's like, I'm training for this. This is the might they like, I could go win this gold and then I can be out and he's got a wife and two kids.

1:31:10Yeah, you know, like it's at certain points, like for some people, principals just can't come into it. He has over a fucking barrel. Yeah, it's a lot harder when you have when your principles not only cause you to lose your job but move your houses there. You're almost there. Your wife and kids are there vulnerable. You have a psychotic who is like, fucking ready to pop off in any minute. You're now trying to just get this out of us. You're trying to get this plane off the fucking runway. Yeah, yeah. And he did announce that he was going to stay only until the 1996 Olympics were over because it's like like he said, Olympics are six months away. Just let me fucking finish this. Let me do this. And then I'll go back to my wrestling job at Stanford. I'll get out of here. And Dave was the best wrestler there. He was the most respected. He was sort of a father figure to a lot of these guys. So when Dave said he was leaving, a lot of wrestlers also decided, fuck this. Let's go. And one of the wrestlers planning to leave was John's beloved Bulgarian Valentin Yordinov. I just always see, wow, why do I see Valentin Yordinov just in a speedo

1:32:12in a big giant, like, glass cylinder? Like coming up from every. See another possible motivation for the murder of Dave Schultz? And there were probably a few considering how Adel John's brain was by this point, by mental illness, drugs and alcohol. One of the big motivations or possible motivations is that Dave and Valentin had become close friends. And John Dupont was jealous of their relationship. But Mark didn't believe that John was gay. I don't think he was either. No, dude, I actually think it's more complicated than being just a gay, like love affair. I think it's not that. I think it's no. I think it's that John Dupont was a highly unstable individual who didn't know how to have a human relationship and didn't know how to handle it if a human relationship ended. You know, he didn't know what friendship meant. He didn't know what companionship meant. He didn't know what any of those things meant. All he knew, he could not separate these people from the thought, like, these are objects. These are my objects to play with. And they're gonna act how I want them to act. And if I paid for them to be there, how dare they act any other way?

1:33:13Yeah, he's paid them for a service. And that service is being his wrestlers, being his guys. And calling him Golden Eagle. Yeah. Before we share, I want to hear Golden Eagle one last time. That's Golden Eagle. That volatility, unfortunately, finally came to a head on January 26, 1996, when John Dupont shot and killed Dave Schultz. Now, the wrestlers at Fox Catcher Farms were not so coincidentally throwing a party for Valentin Yordanov's birthday the night before the murder. And that party had lasted well into the morning. And we have absolutely no idea what set John off or what might have been said at that party. But something happened. Because when the sun rose the next day, John Dupont asked a security guy, a man named Pat Goudale, to take a ride with John around the estate. I have one theory. What happened? So it came up in the 30 for 30 I was watching just before. And they posited the theory that was interesting. Which is that Dave Schultz, the night of the party,

1:34:14drunkenly, what they used to do, one of the fun things they used to do, shoot off fireworks, shoot off all these things. And apparently, so this is at the height of John saying there's not these spies everywhere, the spies, all these people are doing. And he's been interrogating people one by one, who's the spy. And apparently he saw Dave funnily shooting out of a home, what they call these like bazooka things when it bottle rockets and he was shooting it at Dupont's house and laughing. And that John Dupont went to his head of security that night and says, I know who the spy is. We're going to handle it tomorrow. Well, that seems pretty cut and dry. Yeah. But that is a version of the story. So I've known that you have no idea what's real, what's not real. And I'm not saying that you should put bottle rockets and PVC pipes, but it is a lot of fun. Just make sure you put the cap on the end. Because it's what private properties for it really is. It really is. You can use the same PVC pipe you used to build your potato gun, which is also an incredible amount of fun. The build is all you need some PVC pipe,

1:35:17a little bit of hairspray, a match, and a clip of potatoes. And oh my god, you got so much fun. It's fun to break rules. Well, the security expert that John went and talked to that night, his name's Pat Goudale. And Pat has been criticized for feeding into John's paranoid delusions. Because Pat did whatever John asked him to do, no matter how weird it was. Pat was the guy who x-rayed the columns. Pat was the guy who dug up the property, looking for these hidden tunnels that John swore over there. This is fucking job. It's just, well, that's what Pat says. He maintains that he only did this in an effort to show John that there's nothing to worry about. He thought that if he did it enough and showed him enough evidence, like, look, there's no listing devices. There's no spies that eventually John would drop it. Pat's not really a mental health expert. No, he has no idea. But I will say they do say, I've received many emails about this over the years, you are actually, someone has, like they say this word dementia patients, where you should help, you should actually say yes and.

1:36:18Yeah, you go on with it, especially in Alzheimer's as well. Yeah, it helps, but schizophrenia is a different, it's different animal together. Yeah, you always add to me, I always yes and that. It's yes and where's the dragon? Yes, and your blood is butter. Let's cut it out of you, put it on bread. Yes, and where are your pills? Where the pills? Any parent listener will tell you how many times they did something completely wrong, knowing they were doing it wrong, only should they show their child. This is what happens when you do it wrong. Yeah, yeah. Now, John's everyday gun was a 38 specialist, solid everyday gun. But on the morning of January 26th, he grabbed his long barreled 44 magnum revolver before heading out into the estate with security guy Pat Goudale. After surveying the grounds and his Lincoln continental, John drove to Dave Schultz's house on the property. Of course, the place where Dave lived with his wife and two kids. Luckily, the kids were already at school, but Dave was outside trying to fix his car radio.

1:37:19His wife was in the kitchen. John pulled up to Dave, opened the door and said, Hi, coach. John then got halfway out of his car, didn't even fully get out, pulled his 44 and shot Dave Schultz. Dave's wife was inside the house and said she didn't think anything of the gunshot because Dave sometimes liked to shoot small game like squirrels with a 22 rifle. Also, they were shooting guns all the time. Yes, but when she heard a second shot and a scream, she went outside. There she saw her husband lying face down on the ground next to his car, while John DuPont was still halfway out of his Lincoln continental. She then watched as John DuPont put a third and final bullet into Dave Schultz for reasons that are still unclear. At least fully unclear. It does seem like it was a paranoid delusion that got out of hand now that you say that. It seems that he was crawling and then he did a final shot. As far as what security expert Pat Goudale was doing this whole time,

1:38:20because hey, someone starts in a fire gun, think the security expert's going to know what to do. He testified at the trial that he got out of the car and pointed his own gun at John DuPont. But Pat told police right after the shooting that he was too stunned to really do anything and that the shooting happened too fast for him to react. Based off of that and based on where they found Pat later, it seems like Pat just ran from the car and hid behind a metal barrel, which honestly, as long as John DuPont's not shooting the wife as well, smart move. You know, what else are you supposed to do? Honestly, if you're going to get shot, he's not the secret service. His job is not to be murdered. Security guys. John, meanwhile, tossed the 44 Magnum into his backseat and drove away while Dave's wife tried putting pressure on her husband's wounds. Unfortunately, though, the bullets have been hollow point in this very much speaks towards motive and also speaks towards premeditation. Hollow point bullets expand upon impact.

1:39:20We all know that. They're chosen for the express purpose of killing a man. It's the only reason why you use hollow points. So Dave tragically died before the ambulance got there. While Dave was dying, John DuPont drove back to his mansion and walked directly into a windowless steel line vault on the first floor that his mother had installed as a bomb shelter. The dream. Oh, man. This is the dream. This one houses the house I grew up in had a bomb shelter. Is it not a safe room? Is it like a safe room? No, a bomb shelter. Like it's a it's a cold-wear air shed. My house I grew up in was built in the 50s. And so there was an actual bomb shelter out back because I grew up an hour away from Dias Air Force Base, which was on one of the, it was one of the top targets for the Soviets during nuclear war because that's where all the B-52 bombers were. So if there was a new like I grew up knowing like if there's a nuclear war, I'm going to die. I want a bomb shelter. Don't bomb shelters go underground. Yeah, this is on the first floor.

1:40:22Probably very thick walls. Very thick walls. Well, usually John used this vault as both his library and his cocaine layer. Wow. Very snorted lines and met his dealer. Honestly, cocaine layer you have to have. Do you really do if you're if you're rich and you don't have a cocaine layer? Are you rich? Yeah, and all cocaine layers belong with books that you won't read. Definitely. It's a lot of naked girls. It's but it's paired best with books that you take off the shelf, open, flip through, put back on. Take off the shelf, open, look. That's not the secret. Nah, books. After putting the gun away on a high shelf, Dupont stepped out of the vault and told the three house staff members that were remaining in the house, you better not let the police inside, because the police are definitely coming. Yes, said you will eat, sacrifice yourself to be your god, your Pharaoh, and we will burn this place to the ground. And I know that we will all join each other in the afterlife. What do we are not okay? Sure, John. And come, they did before long 75 police officers from 10 departments and 30

1:41:26SWAT officers were outside John's mansion. They show because he, because you know why? He's the oozee's. Well, oozee's a machine gun and a tank. Yeah, he let the local police train on his gun range. They knew how many guns he had. But in the end, there was no shootout in John's future, no massive last stand. Instead, John just sat there and made phone calls to lawyers and wrestlers. Hey, there's this gold dust. I said, I don't know. Am I gay? I figured I'd ask you a guitar, I vote. I'll ask Jake the snake, right? Jake. Hello, is this big fully? Would your dude love, do you wish you were cactus chaps? Do you ever think about that or is that they're the same guy? Are they cousins? Or are they different entities? I should be calling Dusty Rhodes. Yeah, he's not sorry. But specifically, John called Valentin Nordinov over and over, leaving messages, begging the Bulgarian to come visit him in his hour of need. But Valentin did not answer. And after the staff left one by one without incident, they just talked kind of

1:42:29snuck out the door when he wasn't looking. I could then repeat like, so I'm gonna leave. Yeah, okay, I'm gonna go. John DuPont by 6.45 PM was left all alone in his mansion. Now, the police, of course, treated John DuPont with the utmost respect, despite the fact that he had just killed a man in cold blood in front of his wife. This was much to the criticism of the media, who knew how much money John had given the local police department and definitely asked them about the money every time there was a press conference. The standoff therefore lasted for days, until the police finally shut off the mansions heater in the middle of a Pennsylvania winner. John, however, simply built a fire for himself, using copies of a book he'd written and self-published that if this was in a movie, you'd say it was stupid. It was called Never Give Up. You know, when I got to say, Johnny, there's a lot, a lot of things are proud of us for, but that's a great title. Remember what San Dusky's book was called?

1:43:30Touched. Oh my god. Are you serious? It's better than sucked. Here's my new book, Boys Don't Cry. Boy, you never cry. Before long, the cold got to be too much. And when John asked the police to bring out a repairman for the HVAC, an opening emerged. You will bring to me your finest yelped HVAC repairman. And don't bring me any one about to give me a subscription to be a part of their service. Sick of putting out reviews. The police told John that it was too dangerous to bring a civilian into the situation, but John was more than welcome to exit the mansion and check on the boiler himself just so long as he promised to not bring a gun. That's a great idea. An amazingly John did what he was asked and he exited the mansion unarmed, wearing a Bulgarian wrestling team sweatsuit with a team fox catcher t-shirt underneath. Bizarly, he's a love of lanyards like you do. He slipped a lanyard from the 1995 World Wrestling Championships over his neck

1:44:31before going out. Guy can't be all wrong. I love lanyards. You do love lanyards. Like every other person, like I always put mine in my pocket, you know, and like have it ready if someone needs it. You're on. I throw over whatever nice thing you got. I love lanyards. That's like a lanyard. I like a badge. You know what I mean? I'm a police officer. In many ways. In many ways, I'm a cop, yeah. I think it just comes from you remembering the moment in Wayne's World where they have the backstage passes and they've shown to everybody and so excited. Is there anything that you could show to somebody and they let you into a place where there's bad food in like little waters? Yeah, I got it. Within moments, though, John decided to make a run for it. A SWAT officer stepped out from behind a tree. He took his way. He took his way. Told you. Spirits and spies. Come with me. Spirits and spies. Three people. And he told John to stop. And John did freeze for a moment. He put his hands up, but he started fucking. I know. No, no, no. Spirits come to my age.

1:45:32The SWAT officer, of course, chased John down, tackled him to the ground. But it took a whole swarm of SWAT officers to finally take down the Dupont air and put the cuffs around his wrists. Now, John Dupont naturally tried an insanity defense for the murder of Dave Schultz. I was crazy for wrestling. I'd also cocaine. A cocaine was the battle for the insanity as well. And even though John was a reasonably well-kept man prior to the trial, he grew out his beard and gave himself a purposefully disheveled appearance in court to bolster the insanity defense. All these guys do this shit. Even Harvey Weinstein brought out the walker and is just like, John Dupont showed up in a wheelchair. Like they all do it. But after all the arguments were heard and the jury deliberated for a week, they came back with a verdict of guilty, of third degree murder, but mentally ill. But you crazy. Yeah. You knew that. All right. You crazy as well. We just want to tell you that. That meant that while the jury believed that John did have paranoid schizophrenia,

1:46:33he had still fully understood that he was doing something wrong when he killed Dave Schultz. So John Dupont was sentenced to 13 to 36 years in prison, which was basically a life sentence because John was nearly 60 when he was put in jail. Dave Schultz's wife soon after won a wrongful death suit against John Dupont. And while we don't know the amount, it was reported to be the largest settlement ever paid to one person. Good. Yeah. Every once in a while, it's lucky when your husband gets shot now. Jesus. Jesus fucking Christ. I know. You are expendable. That's where I'm taught. John meanwhile spent three months in a state hospital before he was transferred to state prison, where he shared an eight-foot cell with another roommate in a wing for older prisoners and child molesters. This guy's hilarious. Do you think he get put in with another old guy or a child molester? I bet they pair them. One old guy, one child molester. I think they need to have them there. That's the balance.

1:47:33Yeah, because that's the Batman and Robin nothing. You need the two. Yeah, because if you got two child molesters in there, they're just going to talk shop all day. Oh, what's the age that you're like, all right? You've 65. Didn't know what the kid fuckers. I didn't even look at your legs, and your knees, and something like he's got the tensile strength of a child molester. I think we can move this over to some workers. Well, it was with the old man and the child molesters that the Dupont air died in 2010 at the age of 72, making John Dupont, as far as I know, the only Dupont to truly pay for the crimes he committed. He was embarrassingly buried in a red team fox catcher wrestling singlet, and the remainder of his estate was left to who else, but his favorite Bulgarian wrestler, Valentin Yordinoff. How American. Yeah, multi-millionaire, breaking off a piece of the Russians. Now, Valentin Devin, the interviews he gave during the documentaries were the house was

1:48:37quite nice. Quite, quite nice. Now, why do I feel like the grossest thing of all is that he was buried in a wrestling singlet? I think it is the grossest thing that happened. Yeah. There's something about that because they're like, even just it's an old man, you're going to go open casket. You're going to see his bulge in this thing? Now, you don't see the lower half in an open casket. Not for my grandmother, we open the whole fucking thing. Who saw that fucking bitch cut off her dress? Yeah, yeah, you don't get her. Let me take this. Yeah, you did bitch. And that is the tale of the DuPonts. We have done it in three episodes. The crimes of the DuPonts and the crimes of one single DuPont. Thank you very much for coming along on this journey with us. It's been a lot of fun. It happened a lot in the midst of the Epstein files. There's been very fun, but it was actually very edifying. Once that Epstein files came out and we read all this stuff,

1:49:38a lot of stuff in Epstein started making sense. And so, like I said, at the beginning of this whole thing, if you really want to understand how we got to this point, people like the DuPont, you have to understand how this world works. And what these people do. You have to understand how people like John DuPont work. These systems are set up for these people to behave in this manner. And we did this, we did this specifically in this way, as we said last episode because of where we are in the country. And how we personally feel as creators. So this was this mental auto, this is a series. But next week, it's going to get a little bit less important. I'm coming back to me. I'm going to be doing a thing. We're going to a true crime. Yeah, Henry's first true crime. Yes, it's going to get real fucking gross and I'm excited for it. Yeah. I watched a part of a documentary about it and I didn't care for it. Yeah. So we're going to back to the fucking sloppy bloods next week. You fucking animals. And we've got some really fun ideas for this year's March Madness,

1:50:38which will be coming up in a couple of weeks. Very soon. And then after that, I'm going to return to the Mount Rushmore Viva. We got a lot of cool shit coming up. It's coming. But we've got to get to the airport. Yeah, let's go. So thank you for your money. Go to patreon.com slash slash podcast on the left and give that money. You can get ad free episodes. You can also see last stream on the left live 6 p.m. PST each week. We might be changing into five. Yeah, well, I think we should change it to five starting next week. I thought we said we were doing it. We're doing it. It's five p.m. It's five p.m. It's done. This is what made it's for us. Daddy needs to eat dinner. We like to not be hungry during the episodes. That's what we're going to do. So that's done. Also, you're going to go over and help you on the left for all the super social media. Don't know why. And you're going to go to YouTube channels. Some place underneath. LPN Romanticie. No dogs in space. LPN TV. The foreign report. Who's the B? All on YouTube. Go check that fucking shit out. We're back next week. Good work, Marcus. Thank you. Great work to both of you as well. Thank you for coming along with me on this journey. Hell yeah. Next week, we're going to be an Indianapolis at the Egyptian room. Come check us out.

1:51:39And then the very next night on March 14th, Henry and I are going to be in Urbana, Illinois. Can't wait. The Canopy Club. We're going to have a lot of fun there. Then after that, we got Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Grand Rapids, Tulsa, Oklahoma City, a bunch of side story shows. Go to last podcast and alf.com to find out where we're coming to see you. And Eddie, I got to take you to the slippery noodle. You're, you're disgusted. Dude, you don't take him to the slippery noodle. He's got to see it. Don't take him to the slippery noodle. He's got to see it. He's just because the music performance is alone. Yeah, okay. The last time we went when it was that weird 70-year-old man with just the fan on him, so his arid blowback. Do you remember that? And up in the jazz part, but that's also where the man showed up. No, I wasn't. I don't remember that because I was in, I was stuck in the hotel room, dying of long COVID. Yeah, you almost died. Yeah, and that wasn't anapolis? Yeah, Indianapolis. Yeah, that's when the doctor came to see me at the hotel room to do a house call. And she told me that even though her husband died of COVID, she still did not believe in COVID. And then she just handed me a whole lot of steroids,

1:52:39which a doctor back in New York told me was not the right thing to do. It almost killed him. Yeah, yeah. And I'll always remember that because, yeah, he was a rough time. And then we also met a weird, a very strange or what, I watched a nurse cheat in her husband. Oh, that's nice. You love the slippery noodle. I've been to Indianapolis. I had a good time. I watched some ghost hunters and ate a bunch of sausages. We're going to go, no, we're going to go see some bad jazz and we're going to have someone flash us their penis in the men's room. As long as I can get sausages and steric murals of Kurt Vonnegut, I'll be okay. Yeah, no, definitely, if anybody at the Kurt Vonnegut, like if anybody can give us some like Kurt Vonnegut, Kurt Vonnegut's my dude, you know, husband forever. So if anybody can give us like an inside track of some Kurt Vonnegut stuff in Indianapolis, side stories, LPL, at gmail.com, get ahold of us, we'd love to see it. Please. And thank you all. Hail Satan. Again. Hail Dave Schultz. Yeah. Hail Motherfucker. Really is. Yeah. Seriously, like Dave was a, he's a what you want from an American athlete. He's a true American athlete. He's a true American hero. Yeah, and it's sad. What happened to him? It is.

1:53:40Fine.