Dr. Mark Kilmer | BONUS | Season 3

0:00This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, it's Ryan C. Crest for Albertsons, Vaughn's and Pavilion's. It's time to stock up and save now through October 27th. Get $10 off when you spend $25 or more on participating items. Just look for participating item tags to earn on eligible items from brands like Bubbler, Ghost Energy, Lindor, Halo Top, Vital Farms, Kellogg's, Campbell's and Hines. Clip once and save through October 27th every time you shop. Grab these hot tails before they're gone. Restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions. Homeowners! If you want to sell your house fast for all cash, stop what you are doing and listen to this because Osborne Homes wants to buy your house right now. I am Mike from Osborne Homes and I want to buy your house. Nobody buys more homes in California than Osborne. Whether it's a total fixer upper or imperfect condition, Osborne Homes is the easiest way to sell your house fast for all cash. Best of all, when you sell your house to Osborne Homes, there are zero fees and zero commissions. Plus no banks, no realtors, no repairs, and no waiting to close.

1:03We buy your house as is for all cash. Call us right now to get your free, no obligation, all cash offered. We are here and ready to buy your house 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 8000-957-3151. Call 8000-957-3151 right now. Don't wait! Sell your house to Osborne Homes and put the cash in your pocket right away. Any house, any condition, all cash right now. Just call 8000-957-3151. Cash for your house now. 8000-957-3151. This is Steve Covino from Covino and Rich. Quick trivia fellas, every guy listening is contestant. Answer honestly to yourself. You got a belly in a little chest, gassed by the afternoon, no drive left in the tank. You lack that confidence and mental edge. Those are classic signs that your testosterone has been sliding. And nothing drags it down faster than extra weight. So why not take matters into your own hands? Shrip off the weight that tanks your testosterone with Bioma GLP1 booster. Every serving is packed with science-packed ingredients that crank up your natural GLP1 production.

2:07Visit bioma.health slash GLP1 and use code CRShow for 15% off your first order. Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons, Vaughn's and Pavilion's. It's stock up sale time, which means you can save big by stocking up on all your personal care favorites. Now through November 3rd shop in store and online and save $10 when you spend $25 or more participating products like Shick Razer. Head and shoulders anti-dandruff shampoo. Hello deodorant, just for men hair color. Listarine, mouthwash, gold bond hand cream and Irish spring body wash. Offer ends November 3rd, restrictions apply. Offers May Vary. Visit Albertsons, Vaughn's or Pavilions.com for more details. During the nearly seven years Cindy's been separated from her children. She hoped that another set of eyes and ears would help her case. That's why back in the summer of 2020, right after the district attorney dropped the child abuse charges against Kenny, Cindy hired a psychologist named Dr. Mark Kilmer. But Dr. Kilmer didn't help Cindy's case, and his own words helped sink his career.

3:12I'm Nancy Glass and this is a bonus episode of Birdon of Guilt. When parents in Colorado are fighting over custody or as the state calls it parental responsibilities, some parents hire a parental responsibilities evaluator or a PRE. Attorney Henry Baskerville explains. The idea was to have an expert tell a judge what the judge should do in relation to control for the children and so forth. Because judges, they don't have the time to figure that out. The PRE looks at the family dynamics and makes recommendations to the judge. The process usually takes a few months to complete. As PRE goes and interviews the children, interviews the parents who are in the midst of a divorce and makes a recommendation to the court about this person seems like a good parent.

4:18I'm getting vibes that this person might be an abuser. That's where stuff. In 2020, Cindy hired Dr. Mark Kilmer to review her case. And if the last name Kilmer sounds familiar, it's because Mark is the brother of the late actor, Val Kilmer. Just two years after Dr. Kilmer's work on Cindy's case, he was the subject of an investigation by probe publica. Well come to find out that Kilmer was accused by his wife of being a domestic abuser. When I first read the article, I thought to myself, this can't possibly be true. Turns out it is. According to probe publica, Dr. Kilmer was arrested in 2006 and charged with assaulting his then wife. After the incident, she obtained a restraining order against him. In a divorce proceeding the following year, Dr. Kilmer lost decision making power over his children because of concerns about his parenting.

5:21I mean, it's terrible. And now he's the guy who's the referee for domestic abuse. I don't know how he got appointed to be part of this program with that kind of background. He should have never been acting on behalf of the state of Colorado. I mean, it's like taking Lance Armstrong and making him the guy who tests people for steroids. In 2007, Dr. Kilmer pleaded guilty to harassment. The court ultimately dismissed the assault charge after he successfully completed domestic violence counseling and 24 months of probation. He had apparently had a very messy divorce and he had claimed in his divorce that his wife had falsely accused him of being abusive. Dr. Kilmer told probe publica his guilty plea was the result of poor legal representation and he regrets not going to trial. But his story didn't end there.

6:21Yeah, so he had a number of other absolutely bonkers quotes in that article. A voice actor will read what Dr. Kilmer said. The Me Too movement informs us that, you know, about 90% of all allegations are true or something around there. In my forensic work, that's completely flipped on its head. About 90% of the allegations I hear are false. Kilmer was quoted in the ProPublica interview saying that he ignores abuse 90% of the time, almost bragging about it as if he thought it was funny. Dr. Kilmer told ProPublica he believes more often than not the accusers are exaggerating, quote, to see what kind of legal advantage they can get. To me, this has got to be one of the most important decisions that a judge makes in terms of custody over children. And the fact that this guy was just putting his thumb on the scale for the men and ignoring the women, these things just shock the conscience.

7:25Dr. Kilmer told ProPublica he got into PRE work because it's lucrative. I mean, he was billing sometimes as high as $30,000 per case that he had and he had hundreds of cases. And so it just seemed to me like this is something that somebody should do something about. In 2023, Henry, the lawyer you just heard from, filed a class action lawsuit against Dr. Kilmer, alleging fraud and breach of contract. Originally, the suit named six plaintiffs, all of them were women. I was getting inundated with calls from people who wanted to either participate in our lawsuit against Kilmer or wanted to hire me to bring other lawsuits against other PREs. The suit claimed that Dr. Kilmer repeatedly and deliberately omitted credible allegations of spousal abuse, child abuse, and child neglect in his reports and recommendations to Colorado ports.

8:25According to the complaint, the plaintiffs would not have hired Dr. Kilmer had they known his personal history and views about abuse allegations. It seemed like a slam dunk to me, but they filed a motion to dismiss arguing that Mark Kilmer had something called quasi-judicial immunity. And basically what that is is judges have immunity. You can't sue a judge if you don't like his decision in case. That's just not how it works. And they are granted broad immunity from civil lawsuits because otherwise they would be fearful about making tough decisions. And once this case got in front of a judge. Because Kilmer was appointed by the court, the court's judicial immunity extended to him. And our case was dismissed. I just can't believe that the court would find that somebody could do what Mark Kilmer was doing and not have any real responsibility for it and still sort of irks me to this day.

9:29You know, you try to fight the system and sometimes it doesn't work. For a while, the state of Colorado suspended Dr. Kilmer from taking on new court appointments for PRE work. Meanwhile, the work he did on Cindy's case lived on. He says, I don't believe most accusations about domestic violence and child abuse, especially in a high custody court case. I don't believe him. Well, guess who was accused of domestic violence? Mark Kilmer. And the judge consistently went with Kilmer. That shouldn't never happen. Judge Hogue found Dr. Kilmer's work on Cindy's case to be solid. And according to a 2024 Denver Gazette article, Judge Hogue said in 2023, just because someone is suspended for work they did on one case doesn't mean they always did bad work. And once again, Cindy found herself in an impossible position. If she challenged the evaluator, she risked appearing unwilling to accept the conclusions of a court appointed professional.

10:35If she accepted the report, she was accepting the judgment of a man whose objectivity had been publicly questioned. Either way, the report became one more wrong Cindy couldn't make right. I had a lot of hope. I really did. I had a lot of hope for the first couple of years. It's just it's just not there anymore. At the time of this recording, Dr. Kilmer's license as a psychologist is active. However, he is no longer listed on Colorado's roster of PREs. We contacted Dr. Kilmer. A voice actor will read from his email. I can't speak to any of your questions about professional psychology work. I wish you all the best of luck with your project. Dr. Kilmer wasn't the only PRE to be displanned in Colorado. ProPublica found that he was one of four on the state roster who have been charged with harassment or domestic violence. Additionally, a woman named Shannon McShane used fake documents to pose as a license to the state.

11:44She was a licensed psychologist and PRE in Colorado. She had lied about her credentials and seemed like she was kind of a pee in the same pod as Kilmer. Nobody caught that either. In 2025, Shannon McShane pleaded guilty to perjury and two other charges. She was sentenced to four years in prison. Her story, this story, was covered in an episode of betrayal, the weekly podcast. It's incredible. We put a link to the episode in our show notes. I'm happy that someone's shining light on this. There were many, many people out there who had been affected by this program instituted by the state of Colorado. And it seemed like, frankly, again, what was a laudable program in theory had major systemic problems. The story was a little bit more serious.

12:49The story was a little bit more serious. Hey, it's Ryan C. Crest for Albertsons, Vaughn's and Pavilion's. It's time to stock up and save now through October 27th. Get $10 off when you spend $25 or more on participating items. Just look for participating item tags that are on eligible items from brands like Bubbler, Ghost Energy, Lindor, Halo Top, Vital Farms, Kellogg's, Campbell's and Hines. Clip once and save through October 27th every time you shop. Grab these hot deals before they're gone. Restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions. Wednesday, October 7th at 9-8-Central. On BET, Tyler Perry's sisters returns. It's getting juiced. What am I missing? Everything. As Danny reveals secrets kept close. Who hurt you? It's the police. And Andy confronts the one who hurt her most. I know you bombed my car. I know where you're being done with him. Little lies cause bigger consequences. It's just a second, interesting turn. Tyler Perry's sisters.

13:52Returns October 7th at 9-8-Central. Only on BET. Homeowners, if you want to sell your house fast for all cash, stop what you are doing and listen to this because Osborne Homes wants to buy your house right now. I am Mike from Osborne Homes and I want to buy your house. Nobody buys more homes in California than Osborne. Whether it's a total fixer upper or in perfect condition, Osborne Homes is the easiest way to sell your house fast for all cash. When you sell your house to Osborne Homes, there are zero fees and zero commissions. Plus no banks, no realtors, no repairs, and no waiting to close. We buy your house as is for all cash. Call us right now to get your free, no obligation, all cash offered. We are here and ready to buy your house 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 8-0-0-957-3151. Call 8-0-0-957-3151 right now. Don't wait. Sell your house to Osborne Homes and put the cash in your pocket right away. Any house, any condition, all cash right now. Just call 8-0-0-957-3151. Cash for your house now. 8-0-0-957-3151.

14:58Hey, it's Ryan C. Crest for Albertsons, Vaughn's, and Pavilion. It's stock up sale time, which means you can save big by stocking up on all your personal care favorites. Now, through November 3rd, shop in store and online and save $10 when you spend $25 or more participating products like Shick Razer, head and shoulders anti-dandruff shampoo, hello deodorant. Just for men hair color, Listerine, mouthwash, gold bond hand cream and Irish spring body wash. Offer ends November 3rd, Restrictions Apply, offers May Vary. Visit Albertsons, Vaughn's or Pavilions.com for more details. This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.