Delphi Case Without Richard Allen's Confessions Comes Down to This

0:00Whether you're training for a marathon or building a business, your time and energy are already being pulled in a million direction. The last thing you want is payroll benefits and HR admin adding worry to the miles ahead. JustWorks helps take that weight off, combining intuitive software with real human support to help keep your business moving forward. So you can spend less time sweating the back office and more time chasing what's next. Run your business without running on worry because you don't have to worry when it just works. Has it justworks.com to learn more? This is Matt Rogers from Lost Culture East. This is Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture East. This is Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. We've been talking about Cupid Mayo for a minute now and wow. So many of you already love this stuff. And if you're thinking, wait, what is Cupid? Do you not have the internet? It's the OG Japanese mayonnaise. The one with the red cap. What makes it different? Egg yolks. Cupid is made with egg yolks only, giving it this rich umami flavor that elevates to everything. Chefs use it. Restaurants use it. Where chefs work, of course.

1:00Food and flavor lovers use it. You haven't tried it yet? Hm. Well, find the red cap and see what everyone's talking about. Why don't you? Cupid. The original Japanese mayonnaise. Cupid. This is Matt Rogers from Lost Culture East. This is Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture East. This is Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Okay, we've been talking about Cupid Mayo for a minute now, Bo. And wow, the feedback we're getting. I mean, so many of y'all love this stuff. You're stopping us in the street going, I love Cupid. And if you're thinking, wait, what is Cupid? Uh, do you not have the internet? It's the OG Japanese mayonnaise. The one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle. Once you know what, you start seeing it everywhere. People ask what makes it different from basic mayo? Well, the answer? Egg yolks. Cupid is made with egg yolks only, giving it this incredibly rich umami flavor that elevates everything. Burgers, fries, sandwiches, chicken, noodles, chefs use it, restaurants use it, people who really love food and flavor use it.

2:02Whatever you're eating, Cupid hit. So if you haven't tried Cupid yet, find the bottle with the red cap and see what everyone's talking about. You'll understand. Cupid, the original Japanese mayonnaise. Co-case ice cream is back with its first drop of 2026, the sabotage case. Six flavors so indulgent, they're practically guilty. Electric chair, sugar momma, John Doe, each one a crime of passion for your taste buds. Forget resolutions, commit the ultimate flavor felony. Order now at coldcaseicecream.com. Coldcase ice cream, mysteriously delicious. Coldcase ice cream is now available in all major crogrers, fries, bread, myer, food for less, Smith's, Metro Market, Pick and Save and Quality Food Centers. This is Hidden Tillers Live with Tony Bruceke and Robin Dray. If you throw out the confessions, dragged out of the hallucinating man in the prison cell, what's actually left? There is zero DNA connecting Richard Allen to Abby and Libby.

3:03Instead, the state built its case on a single, unfired bullet found in the dirt and an eye witness. But did the jury get the whole truth? The defense wanted to bring in the expert to explain that matching an unspent bullet found outside in the elements is complete fantasy as to matching it to a spent bullet. Listen to Lehman rip into the states forensic evidence comparing it to astrology. Allegy. If Tobins in there, the jury gets to hear that the argument between the other two people is like an argument about astrology when really the argument should be, is this astrology? This is Jock science. At this argument, isn't worth the jury's time because you can't find a magic bullet. Forty calibers are unspent casing out there in the field and apply this AFT methodology. Look at that and say, this can be matched to something we can create in the lab if we

4:05try a few different techniques and fire ten cartridges and do them in this way that we can match it. Tobin has the common sense answer. When you find a casing in the middle of nowhere in Indiana, in the ground and you find markings on that, that's about as valuable as astrology. You can't use it. Well, the Supreme Court of Virginia held that it was reversible error to exclude this Mr. There's the argument being made in front of the judges right there. We will be fascinating to see what their ultimate take is on this once they've had some time to. I'm ready for it. Yeah, you know, it could take months, man. It really could. The defense also wanted to bring in an expert to explain, no, that magic unspent bullet found outside of the elements is being complete fantasy. But also beyond that, maybe the most damning part of the state's case is the eyewitness. Freeman hits the absolute core of this case.

5:06The main eyewitness, Betsy Blair, who we were just talking about in the last segment, saw the killer on the bridge and she told police it was not Richard Allen. That thing get him. Take a look. The man who came forward to volunteer to help the police is not the man who killed these girls. It's the man who didn't come forward to volunteer and help the police. It's this man. The Betsy Blair doesn't see my client. Nothing else matters. The rest of this is sound and noise. Betsy Blair saw the killer and she didn't see my client. She saw this man. The rest of this is timeline. It's not about a timeline. The question isn't about who is where when. The question is, was there more than one man on the trail that day? And the answer is absolutely yes there was. It's the man who Betsy Blair saw. It's the man who drove the car that Betsy Blair saw. It's the man who cares about sticks and how enough to carefully arrange them on the bodies.

6:12It's not the pharmacy technician who, on his day off, goes for a walk and commits this bizarre crime scene. It's this man. Of course we have another composite of someone walking away from the scene down the road with blood on there. Yeah. There's another composite too that also doesn't look a thing like Richard. I think one of them said he like I think it might have been Vedic who's the middle judge. There I think she might have said, well, he looks like he might look a little like Richard Allen or something to that effect, but never forget. Never forget. Doug Carter, when they brought the second sketch out, originally said that those two sketches were the same person. Never forget it. Never forget it. Never forget it. Never. Here's the state's answer to all of that. This is the rebut. Take the time to go through them here.

7:13Weaver with not wasting. That's right. To be entitled to a Frank's hearing, he has to make a substantial showing that there are false statements or reckless disregard for the truth and that they were material to the existence of probable cause. I think the easiest way for this court to address that is that they were not material. Even if you take out everything that he says was false from the other day, and you include everything that he says was omitted, there is still probable cause, which is not a high standard, because we still have his own statement saying, I'm the guy who passed these girls on the path at 130. These girls all identified him as bridge guy and he says, I'm the guy who was out on the bridge shortly before Abiann Libby would have arrived at the bridge. That in and of itself is probable cause for a search warrant. None of the rest of it is material to the existence of probable cause at all. And I said, I think that's the easiest way. We again have arguments in our brief about why these statements were not false or the omissions were not material. I think that's the easiest way is that he never made that necessary preliminary showing.

8:17This would have mattered to the existence of probable cause. If there are no other questions, then the state would respectfully request the court to affirm defendants conviction. Thank you. Thank you. My lander. You can go back to ban Camp Nou. Yeah. Go play that tuba. There's so many things that we go all the way back to the Frank's hearing when that was denied. I mean, if we look at the timeline, you remember this Bob probably better than I do. It was, it was, it wasn't going to happen. Then it wasn't going to happen. There was, it was constantly jerking around on this case of what is going to happen and what's not going to happen, what's going to be admitted, what's not going to be admitted. Why is this seemingly so difficult for anybody with authority to wrap their minds around and just go, God, this thing was screwed up. Of course, we need to redo this.

9:17I mean, there, it's just one thing after I've never seen a case with so many other possible suspects that look very damning. I've seen people be convicted on far less than just the stuff that's out there on some of these other people who've never been charged with a crime. It's, I don't know. I mean, at the end of the day, I saw a comment earlier saying there's other people that are being protected here and I still, I think I have to go to that. I don't know who, I don't know where, but I'm going to guess there's some sort of big child S-Ring that's going on in Indiana and there's higher ups in it and there's a reason that this is not investigated further because it's going to lead to people who should not who don't want to be looked at again. Pure conjecture, but I think that's why you have this CVS pharmacy tech in a prison in Oklahoma today. Yeah, I mean, either that or a giant meth ring out of cocoma that a lot of people may have connections to. There's some other motivating factor on the other side. There's something else going on with it.

10:18And there's, yeah, I've been like so knee deep in this case for so long that I've just said is you can imagine my DMs are buried with. Have you ever, let me ask you this, have you ever felt like you're flying too close to the sun on this case? No, I mean, frankly, if I were licensed in Indiana, I'd be trying to get on the case to try it. Yeah. I'm that fucking adamant about it, you know, but there's, there's a lot of great lawyers that are adamant about it. So from that, from that perspective, you know, I feel that Rick's in good stud. Yeah. And over the years of covering this case, we have gotten a lot of bizarre emails and calls from people in this vicinity that all are kind of one off, but they seem to to know the inside. And I'm not going out of conspiracy, but there's a lot of people who seemingly by like normal everyday people, they send me their stuff. I look at their Facebook page, they look like normal functional human beings, but they

11:20seem to know there's an underlying current of darkness with some folks in this area. And that's what's made me, I mean, hasn't made me hesitant to report on it or anything, but it's made me go, well, I don't live anywhere close because there, there does seem to be a concerted effort amongst a certain group of folks who, who somehow have not necessarily a direct connection with law enforcement backing them, but an indirect connection where they feel some level of protection to do what they do. I mean, just look at some of this stuff. Look at Holder. I mean, I'm not blaming him. I'm not saying he's guilty or anything, but I am saying, look at just, I mean, even if you have nothing to do with this, why would you be flagrantly putting this shit out there on Facebook when there's an active murder investigation going on? And you're going to reenact it on Facebook with your kids or your friends or something. And the tab, I mean, it's just insane. It's utter insanity. It's like, it's just waving this like flag of like, hey, it looks like you got your guy

12:23over here. Hey, look at my film. Look at all this other shit that I got. It's not me though. You're already, it's just, it's like mocking the families. It's mocking everybody. And nobody seems to want to look at these folks and go, hey, I think it might be him. People are just all too happy to have Richard Locke locked up. Fucking mocking law enforcement. It is. You know, and it's like the thing that, and if you don't know much about the case, they kept how the girls were killed. And there was obviously unread it and all online. There was tons of speculation about how they were killed, but they never released it. We knew nothing about the crime scene ever. Like it was not common knowledge. It was not, oh, when the, you know, the first press clippings came out about the murders and like we'd heard nothing about the scene. They're like, we're keeping this unfuckin' lock. This is not to get out. No one's to know.

13:23So that in conjunction with the post in and of themselves that they're so eerily similar is fucking super damning. I'm like, I don't know if Brad Holder did it or not either. But those fucking, the posts that he makes are super damning. I think they're more damning than Caleb Flynn talking about wanting his wife dead. Seriously, like fucking seriously. It's like, and again, like Ron Logan's a really good fucking suspect. Yeah. Like I was an abusive woman beating fucking crazy. Yeah. Well, there's a connection that, you know, you just got to go to the connections first. I know. I know it. That's how I ended it. Anytime there's a connection, you go away to the connection. And I'm looking up again and Bob, you know, this more than I do, you know, I'm looking at the FBI's involvement and how they, I know they came in and did some sort of profile on him, right? Yeah. And they just missed it. And it's like, they're not including it. And so like, what's interesting to me on the law enforcement side is who decided to walk

14:26away or was excluded from this, which was the FBI, you know, to give on that resource side again. They're never lead on these types of things. But again, it's a resource that is available that they totally dismissed. And you have really, really, and then we've seen as time and time again with law enforcement not doing really good investigations at all. But it was accepted that it wasn't a good investigation. That's what was really super shocking is a lot of times this is what the fence does a great job at. I've learned from Bob as you poke at the investigation because it's about, you know, the constitution upholding the Bill of Rights. And these guys were horrible. And yet they were never, they weren't allowed to be held accountable because of a judge. It's just the whole thing. It was just so mind-boggling to me about how bad this case was, especially when, again, you just look at all the other potential subjects that were not investigated, which all looked so much better fitting than Richard Allen. Yeah, I'm warm. I mean, I'm with you. I'm with you 100%. There's a reason someone is motivated not to get to the truth.

15:28And what that motivation is, is the million dollar question. Your thoughts in the comment section on Substack on YouTube wherever you're watching or listening to this, we'd love for you to weigh in. There's a gazillion pieces that we've done on Delphi over the years. If you were just finding this and like, I need to learn more. Well, you've come to the right place. You can check out a ton here on Hidden Killers and over on Bob's channel, Defense Diaries, YouTube. Wherever you get podcasts, if you want to get educated, we got the hookup for you. We got to check that out. Also check out Bob's other podcast, Barate Inside the John Wayne Gacy investigation. Also a fascinating podcast available wherever you get podcasts go and check it out. Robbins on Masterclass, he is going to teach you a thing or two, Robin Tellenmore. Yeah, about learning how to assess behavior, just like we're doing here in this case with the understanding, decision processes of others. In this case, particularly who might or might not be guilty.

16:29So masterclass.com, backslash, Robin Drick. Go and check it all out. All right, another great Tuesday with Bob. Thank you, Bob. Until next time for Robin for Bob and Todd, I'm Tony Bursky. We'll talk again real soon. This is Matt Rogers from Lost Cultures, thus with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Lost Cultures, thus Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Okay, we've been talking about Cupid male for a minute now, Bowen. And wow, the feedback we're getting. I mean, so many of y'all love this stuff. You're stopping us in the street going, I love Cupid. And if you're thinking, wait, what is Cupid? Do you not have the internet? It's the OG Japanese mayonnaise. The one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle. Once you know what, you start seeing it everywhere. People ask what makes it different from basic mayo? Well, the answer? Egg yolks. Cupid is made with egg yolks only, giving it this incredibly rich umami flavor that elevates

17:33everything. Burgers, fries, sandwiches, chicken, noodles, chefs use it, restaurants use it, people who really love food and flavor use it. Whatever you're eating, Cupid. So if you haven't tried Cupid yet, find the bottle with the red cap and see what everyone's talking about. You'll understand, Cupid, the original Japanese mayonnaise. Your path to pharmacy can be closer than you think. West Coast University's hybrid doctor of pharmacy program can be completed in as little as 33 months, and no bachelor's degree is required to apply. If you've started pharmacy coursework elsewhere, WCU may accept eligible transfer credits to help students keep moving forward. Learn online, train hands on at our Center for Graduate Studies in Los Angeles, and prepare for real world pharmacy practice. West Coast University, as real as it gets, visit westcoastuniversity.edu. WCU cannot guarantee employment. This is Matt Rogers from Los Cultures, thus with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Los Cultures, thus Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Okay, we've been talking about Cupid male for a minute now, Bowen.

18:35Wow, the feedback we're getting. I mean, so many of y'all love this stuff. You're stopping us in the street going, I love Cupid. And if you're thinking, wait, what is Cupid? Do you not have the internet? It's the OG Japanese mayonnaise. The one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle. Once you know what, you start seeing it everywhere. People ask what makes it different from basic mayo? Well, the answer? Egg yolks. Cupid is made with egg yolks only, giving it this incredibly rich umami flavor that elevates everything. Burgers, fries, sandwiches, chicken, noodles. Chefs use it, restaurants use it. People who really love food and flavor use it. Remember you're eating Cupid hit. So if you haven't tried Cupid yet, find the bottle with the red cap and see what everyone's talking about. You'll understand. Cupid, the original Japanese mayonnaise. The case file just landed on your desk and the evidence is clear. Someone sabotaging your New Year goals.

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20:38And wow, the feedback we're getting. I mean, so many of y'all love this stuff. You're stopping us in the street going, I love Cupid. And if you're thinking, wait, what is Cupid? Do you not have the internet? It's the OG Japanese mayonnaise. The one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle. Once you know what, you start seeing it everywhere. People ask what makes it different from basic mayo? Well, the answer? Egg yolks. Cupid is made with egg yolks only, giving it this incredibly rich umami flavor that elevates everything. Burgers, fries, sandwiches, chicken, noodles, chefs use it, restaurants use it, people who really love food and flavor use it. Whatever you're eating, Cupid hit. So if you haven't tried Cupid yet, find the bottle with the red cap and see what everyone's talking about. You'll understand, Cupid, the original Japanese mayonnaise. Earn your Farm D in as little as 33 months with West Coast University's hybrid program no bachelor's degree required. Religable transfer credits may be accepted.

21:41West Coast University, as real as it gets, visit westcoastuniversity.edu. WCU cannot guarantee employment. This is Matt Rogers from Los Couturies, thus with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Los Couturies, thus Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Okay, we've been talking about Cupid male for a minute now, Bowen. And wow, the feedback we're getting. I mean, so many of y'all love this stuff. You're stopping us in the street going, I love Cupid. And if you're thinking, wait, what is Cupid? Do you not have the internet? It's the OG Japanese mayonnaise. The one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle. Once you know what, you start seeing it everywhere. People ask what makes it different from basic mayo? Well, the answer? Egg yolks. Cupid is made with egg yolks only, giving it this incredibly rich umami flavor that elevates everything. Burgers, fries, sandwiches, chicken, noodles. Just use it, restaurants use it, people who really love food and flavor use it. Whatever you're eating, Cupid.

22:41So if you haven't tried Cupid yet, find the bottle with the red cap and see what everyone's talking about. You'll understand, Cupid, the original Japanese mayonnaise. Your path to pharmacy can be closer than you think. West Coast University's hybrid doctor of pharmacy program can be completed in as little as 33 months, and no bachelor's degree is required to apply. If you've started pharmacy coursework elsewhere, WCU may accept eligible transfer credits to help students keep moving forward. Learn online, train hands-on at our Center for Graduate Studies in Los Angeles, and prepare for real world pharmacy practice. West Coast University, as real as it gets, visit westcoastuniversity.edu. This is Matt Rogers from Los Cultures, thus with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Los Cultures, thus Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Okay, we've been talking about Cupid male for a minute now, Bowen. Wow, the feedback we're getting. I mean, so many of y'all love this stuff. You're stopping us in the street going, I love Cupid. And if you're thinking, wait, what is Cupid?

23:42Do you not have the internet? It's the OG Japanese mayonnaise. The one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle. Once you know what, you start seeing it everywhere. People ask what makes it different from basic mayo? Well, the answer? Egg yolks. Cupid is made with egg yolks only, giving it this incredibly rich umami flavor that elevates everything. Burgers, fries, sandwiches, chicken, noodles, chefs use it, restaurants use it, people who really love food and flavor use it. Whatever you're eating, Cupid hit. So if you haven't tried Cupid yet, find the bottle with the red cap and see what everyone's talking about. You'll understand. Cupid, the original Japanese mayonnaise. Cold Case Ice Cream is back with its first drop of 2026, the sabotage case. Six flavors so indulgent. They're practically guilty. Electric chair, sugar momma, John Doe, each won a crime of passion for your taste buds. Forget resolutions, commit the ultimate flavor felony. Order now at coldcaseicecream.com.

24:43Cold Case Ice Cream is seriously delicious. Cold Case Ice Cream is now available in all major crogrers, fries, bread, myer, food for less, Smiths, Metro Market, Pick and Save, and Quality Food Centers. This is Matt Rodgers from Lost Culture East. That's with Matt Rodgers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture East. That's Matt Rodgers and Bowen Yang. Okay, we've been talking about Cupid male for a minute now, Bowen. And wow, the feedback we're getting. I mean, so many of you all love this stuff. You're stopping us in the street going, I love Cupid. And if you're thinking, wait, what is Cupid? Do you not have the internet? It's the OG Japanese mayonnaise. The one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle. Once you know what, you start seeing it everywhere. People ask what makes it different from basic mayo? Will the answer egg yolks? Cupid is made with egg yolks only, giving it this incredibly rich umami flavor that elevates everything. Burgers, fries, sandwiches, chicken, noodles, chefs use it, restaurants use it, people who really love food and flavor use it.

25:45Whatever you're eating, Cupid. So if you haven't tried Cupid yet, find the bottle with the red cap and see what everyone's talking about. You'll understand, Cupid, the original Japanese mayonnaise. Your path to pharmacy can be closer than you think. West Coast University's hybrid doctor of pharmacy program can be completed in as little as 33 months and no bachelor's degree is required to apply. If you've started pharmacy coursework elsewhere, WCU may accept eligible transfer credits to help students keep moving forward. Learn online, train hands on at our Center for Graduate Studies in Los Angeles and prepare for real world pharmacy practice. West Coast University, as real as it gets, visit westcoastuniversity.edu. WCU cannot guarantee employment. Cold Case Ice Cream is back with its first drop of 2026, the sabotage case. Six flavors so indulgent, they're practically guilty. Electric chair, sugar momma, John Doe, each won a crime of passion for your taste buds. Forget resolutions, commit the ultimate flavor felony.

26:46Order now at coldcaseicecream.com. Cold Case Ice Cream is seriously delicious. Cold Case Ice Cream is now available in all major cougars, fries, bread, myer, food for less, Smiths, Metro Market, Pick and Save, and Quality Food Centers. Earn your farm D in as little as 33 months with West Coast University's hybrid program no bachelor's degree required. Eligible transfer credits may be accepted. West Coast University, as real as it gets, visit westcoastuniversity.edu. WCU cannot guarantee employment. Cold Case Ice Cream is back with its first drop of 2026, the sabotage case. Six flavors so indulgent, they're practically guilty. Electric chair, sugar momma, John Doe, each won a crime of passion for your taste buds. Forget resolutions, commit the ultimate flavor felony. Order now at coldcaseicecream.com. Cold Case Ice Cream is seriously delicious. Cold Case Ice Cream is now available in all major cougars, fries, bread, myer, food for less. Metro Market, Pick and Save, and Quality Food Centers.