Bernie Taupin! Part 1: Hello Yellow Brick Road!

0:00Propel Fitness Water with Gatorade Electrolites, Zero Sugar, and Vitamins. Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade Electrolites. Phil, you know after 250 episodes, almost my level of excitement. How excited do you know me to be today? Can't you see a meeting? You, I am just as excited. We are so honored to have a writer who changed both of our lives. True. Not knowing you were coming in, this is the great Bernie Taupin. Not knowing you were coming in. We were talking to a comedian and a big hard rock musician and saying, trying to where our lives changed and where our musical tastes were formed. And we both realized that your work with Alton John,

1:00good by Yelbuk Road, was I said, our Sergeant Pepper. And I think I speak for our generation saying, that's where we learn not only about great music, but writing. And Phil at least has become very successful. And I'm here too. Well, thank you. It's Bernie Taupin, everybody. Let's build a beans to the fat, food for thought and jokes on tap. Talking with our mouths full, having fun. A piece of cake and humble pie, serving up a slice of life. Leave the dressing on the side, it's naked lunch. Clothing optional. It's great to be here. Thank you. It smells like a cafeteria in here. I've been to many food yet. I think I'll wait on that and we can get going.

2:03Well, the reason for that is we, I'm going to explain when I met you 25 years ago. But more recently, when the Grammy salute to you and Alton was in New York, Phil, being such a fan, came and I remember him being, and we were the only one in the front row when Lady Gaga rehearsed. We geeked out talking to Nigel. You remember like we were like literally hitting each other. Talking to Nigel. And you came by with your beautiful wife and muse. Oh, thank you. And she delivered like an angel, a Jewish angel could corn to meat to Kenner, like and me. And so we wanted to overfeed you. Phil, you want to explain what you've done. You've ordered an absurd amount of food. An absurd amount of food. And then Bernie comes in and I'm not really a morning eating person. So you're going home with a lot, whether you like it or not. Okay. That's why I could do it.

3:04I got egg in my face. Yeah. We love you. Thank you for being a huge part of my life for coming on 60 years. Right. Right. Yeah, it is. I think we've done enough anniversary thing. Oh, I think we've done enough anniversary. I mean, we've done enough anniversary. I think we've done 50, 55. I think 60 will let it slide. Really? Yeah. But the record companies may not. Well, you never know. The one you can never predict what somebody's going to come up with. So we'll see. But right now I'm just coasting on. Just to happier that I'm still around and there's still above ground and we're still creating. And that's more than anything. That's right. And 40 years, almost 40 years on, you have made your best album. And one of the best albums I've heard this year. Oh, thank you. It's lovely. It is lovely. And I should explain that your neighbor and friend of this podcast, Sean Cassidy, your friend,

4:06we each have a Dodger buddy. My Dodger buddy is Brad Pasey of Order theme song. You're as a Sean Cassidy who we love. Exactly. But like when he and I were talking the other night and I said, this album is like a dream. I have dream albums. And this is a dream because I can only compare to it. It's its own animal and you it's so beautiful and special. But I said it reminds me of how I felt when I heard a few Leonard Cohen albums because the songs have a power and sort of. Biblical epic sort of force that reminds me of Leonard Cohen. Wow. Thank you so much. Well, yeah, I mean, there are several inspirational blueprints on this record, definitely. And one of them is definitely Leonard. I drew so much inspiration from him as a human being and as a recording artist.

5:08And I can quite honestly say in my mind Leonard Cohen is the only artist that I think can be regarded as a poet. And you don't exactly know being regarded as a poet. I mean, poetry and lyrics are a completely different animals, you know. And I know people are seeing that as a compliment and I take it as a compliment but it's not necessarily and it's just not true. The problem was you rhymed to things. So that's where people came from. It is kind of interesting because poetry is a completely different art form. And I've written poetry in the past, not a tremendous amount. I did a private publication once a long time ago called The Devil at High Noon, which I printed as I say privately. But outside of that, everything else, lyrics man, lyrics all the way. How does a young fellow aspire to become a lyricist?

6:10What was your impetus to pursue that? You know, that's a really interesting question. Forms of writing. Yeah. Well, here you go. The thing is, like, anybody else of my age group, my contemporaries, back in the day, you either said, I heard Elvis, and I wanted to pick up a guitar. I heard the Beatles, and I wanted to form a group. I heard narrative country music, and I wanted to pick up Penn. The guitar came later. But I wanted to tell stories and rock and roll. And rock and roll didn't tell stories. It created either sexual imagery or other kind of imagery. Not that there's anything wrong with that. And there's nothing absolutely wrong with that. But it didn't spot my imagination like narrative country music did when I heard people like Marty Robbins and Johnny Cash, Johnny Horton. They were telling stories, you know, north to Alaska, or L.Passo, sink the Bismarck,

7:12all these things. That was what fueled my imagination, definitely, and made me... When I heard... I cite this all the time, but when I heard Marty Robbins album, Gun Fighter Ballots and Trail Songs, it took me somewhere magical. And it made me realize that there is something between rock, the written word, melody, and the stories. And that's what happened, you know. I realized that I could write stories, but I had to find somebody who would help me create those stories melodically. How old were you in this album? Well, I mean, when I first met Elton, I was 17 years old. But the creative process when I heard these records probably started when I was 14 or 15 years old. Right after your Burmetsfer in Wainkenshire. Yeah, right after this moment to... I'll be writing a story about reading tees for the job. Thank you. Wow.

8:13That looks amazing. I think my 11-year-old self is having a really good time. Oh, thank you so much. Beautiful to hear about the poetry and the fun of going, wow, I can't wait to... That's an all-star tea-percentation. I'm sorry, there are lyricist groupies. By the way, she also did this when Sean Cassidy magically appeared. Yeah. Yeah, the interesting about Sean, though, and I, is there's such a sort of difference between the two of us musically and what we've done in the past. But, you know, that friendship is something completely different. You know, people probably can't sort of balance Sean Cassidy Burnettop and where does the collaborative kind of nature of that come from, you know, and it's from a lasting friendship from sort of when he was knee high to a grasshopper.

9:13A friendship that began 56 years ago this week is where the quality is. Yeah, I think it was a couple of days ago, isn't it? Yeah, and that's when you came to the troubadour. You conquered America, arrived in America? Yeah, August 1970, yeah. And can you say what happened that night, how you ended it? According to Sean, I think it was that night or the next day that's when you met him. I can't remember what day after, you know, we played... I think what people don't realize is we played more than one show at the troubadour. I think we played almost three or four days. Because Doug Weston would sign and... Yeah, exactly. Which we escaped from later on. We did a deal with him because we were supposed to go back there. But I think he was made a partner on a gig because the next gig we played in LA was a Santa Monica Civic. We didn't actually go back to the troubadour till five years later. But you did go back to Sean's house with... Sure, yeah. You know how people tend to rewrite history?

10:14I'm sure if you put Sean, Elton, and myself in different rooms and asked us the story all of them would be probably slightly different. Rochomon, rock and roll, rock. Yes, exactly, very good analogy there. But no, I don't know what... I know it wasn't the first night. I think it was probably the second or third night. And for some reason, I just went along with Elton. I think he'd been invited by, you know, Shirley and Jack to come back to the house. I can't remember if we went back for dinner, I think we did. But I think Sean was a little older than I remember. I sort of remember him crawling under the table, biting our ankles. But he claims that he wasn't old enough to sit at the table because he was fidgeting too much and that he was sitting at the bar or something with a mini-joupe box playing your song.

11:14So I don't remember that. I just remember him, I just remember this small child. But as I say, I think he was a little older than I recall. But yeah, and then I think I always thought that David was there too. But I think Sean says he wasn't. I don't know. And then Elton might because Elton had befriended David too. But I don't know if that was after. So, you know, everything gets a little foggy after. Which is why I'm so glad. We're going to talk about the album and not the book particularly, but this book, which is very, very important to me. And I wrote a series of what I call my tumbleweed connections. When I read your memoir, Stattershot, which I buy the album, the C has no mercy. Go back if you haven't read the book of Read It Again. I wrote down 300 names that after we're done with this, I'm going to say, including like, I'm going like a guy I play tennis with is in the book. You know, Carling Carter who was married to, or not married, lived with Howie Epstein,

12:18you know, my welcome to Mary Tinklow. Yeah, she was married to Nick Lowe before. Yeah, because I dated Carling after she divorced Nick. I was in love with her. This is a story that is very strange. But no, there'll be no other opportunity to say it. Howie was my groomsman at my wedding. Carling, they were a couple. They were wonderful to me when I came here and met them through Tom Petty. Not to when Howie passed away, which is a horrible loss, one of my favorite people, Tom called me a Nashville. I was working in Nashville and he goes, you got to come back. And I go, why? He goes, we're doing a memorial for Howie at McCabes. And he goes, I need you to speak. And I go, why do you need me? He goes, well, I got, you know, I don't want to do Tom Petty imitation. He got a Stevie Nick. He got all these people because none of them are going to be funny. I need you to tell a funny howie story. So I told the story of when I went with Howie and Carling and to Jamaica for a vacation and we stayed in Johnny Cash in a state, which was quite a place. The only problem was we had to pay for security, which ended up being so much money.

13:21But in any case, I was telling the story about when Carling decided to sunbathe topless. And she was my crush from college now in front of me on the beach with my buddy. And she walked into the memorial where I didn't know if she was coming during that story. It was a. Oh, that's also topless. Also, she can't stop. Well, Carling is still a great friend and I adore her. She's one of the, she's a five brand. She always was. And she's still out there doing it. And that's great. Adora. Do you remember how you first fell in love with the music that you've held in Berney World? Yeah. My brother, for his 10th birthday, I was three years older. He got good by Elbrick Road as a gift. He didn't know about the smooths, but I had heard of Elton John and I kind of took the album and it became and still is my favorite album. There's no better album than this. And to the point, you'd open the double record and there were all your lyrics.

14:26And so, you know, we didn't have the phone to distract us from. You read the lyrics, you wanted to read the lyrics. Don't you miss this that we can't have this anymore? Well, I mean, I think it still exists because it's coming back. Obviously vinyl. Oh, vinyl. Yes. I mean, I don't know if that's what you're referring to because CDs obviously made it a lot hard or especially as I started. Exactly. And I'm streaming. And when I started realizing I needed glasses, you know, trying to read lyrics on CDs and the times of movies in a newspaper, you know, when they used to advertise movies and you'd see the times underneath and you try to figure out what time they were. So that was when I started realizing that the eyesight was getting a little dim. But yeah, no, I think it's great now that in fact, it's funny because a friend of mine, a young artist, just put out a new record.

15:27And I said to him, I said, are you putting it out on, you know, you're putting it out in vinyl, right? And I said, are you putting it out on CD also when he goes, do people still buy those? So that was a good, really interesting. And no, he's not doing CDs. He's only doing vinyl. By the way, my two sons, one of them likes to buy, looks, cassettes. Because that's a, that's a hipster culture. Right. Oh, absolutely. And finally, it's huge now. Yes, it is. But not as ubiquitous as the phone and the streaming. Oh, I see what we're streaming. And I think the lyrics don't exist unless you make a concerted effort to, no, that's, it's unfortunate, definitely unfortunate. And for me, and also it sounds like shit too. Yes. You know, because we got compressed. We got used to it. Yeah. The, my experience was my mom, bless her soul. Carole, thank you. I remember the exact mall we were in when I asked her to buy me good, Vallejo of a

16:31road. It's the first record she bought me. And it was one that you could study, you know, the word study, the, the visuals were amazing. It was just an amazing package. But my, my favorite album is not good, Vallejo of a road. My favorite record emotionally is Tumble We Connection. Oh, that's interesting. And I, that one I borrowed from the school library and loved so much and played so much, they said, keep it. They wouldn't let, you know, I couldn't return it. I think I had a big, it's a big favorite in Nashville. Oh, well, I know not a lot of Nashville cats that love that, right? Well, this album, the C has no mercy. And a weird way it ties together that somehow this kid, this country kid in England, really you brought me, I've ended up writing 35 country music specials. And Brad is one of my best friends. I got to work with Dolly Parton. And I think it all goes back to getting my second record from the library, Tumble We Connection.

17:33That led me to the band. That led me to my first album. My first album was good by you, Vallejo of a course. I see you. Okay, then you went back, right? Yeah, me too. Me too. Interesting. But don't shoot me. And, but literally through that, I got to work with every one of my heroes, Robbie Robertson, I got to know, and in fact, I was thinking like I watched the union, the camera crows, a buddy who's been on the podcast. And at the end of the movie, Elton says the greatest thing, he says so many great things. But with even without you writing, he sometimes says amazing things. And he said, let me get the quote. He said at the end after just really doing this beautiful job you guys did to sort of give Leon Russell that last moment in the sun that he deserved, he said, I just think it's really important to reach out to some of the people who made you who you are. And if you can do it, and if they're still alive, what are you waiting for?

18:33And I think that's absolutely. That's what this podcast, part of it. That's our, we will not burn down that mission. That becomes a mission. Well, I should not hesitate to say that without Big Pink, that probably wouldn't have been a tumble week connection. Believe me, because that record really was the catalyst in allowing me to write the things that I really wanted to write. I think before then, I was sort of getting in line and playing the game and writing what was contemporary and what I thought people wanted to hear. And when I, you know, because I was always that closeted kind of country fan, but that kind of music was not acceptable, you know, to our kind of audience at that particular point in time. When I heard Big Pink, it just opened up the floodgates for me. It just made me go, oh, I can write about this stuff and make it hip.

19:35And because they were writing these timeless stories, I mean, you listen to Big Pink and you don't know when any of this is taking place. I mean, it's completely timeless. And you hear tears of rage or the weight. When is this supposed to be? You know, what is this the present? Is this the past? And that made, I mean, it was so liberating for me that, I mean, yes, tumbleweed is kind of a homage to the band, but it's from a bunch of guys that hadn't even been to the United States yet. That's the reason that's that we see this pattern. And people don't realize that we need influence by America. And then they and you guys, you give it back to us. Which side the blues in a beautiful form that, right? Sometimes it's that outside lens that idealizes. If it wasn't if it wasn't for British R and B acts, American audiences wouldn't know anything about the blues.

20:36Right. I mean, it came, those American blues artists came to England and they were treated like gods. Whereas in, you know, their own country, they were the back of the bus and they were the front of the bus when they came to England. They were idolized. You know, those package shows were extraordinary. And yeah, the British bands, you know, the yardbirds and the stones and all of these bands took the blues back to America, right? Propel Fitness Water With Gatorade Electrolites, Zero Sugar and vitamins, propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. Propel's you. Propel with Gatorade Electrolites. Nick Eek Laser This Stunning Tour The thoughts of death I don't like to dwell on them for longer than like 10 or 15 hours a day.

21:36So November 19th, Yamabah Theater No wonder women rush to have kids were being trained for it since we were kids. They're like, here's a baby doll. Here's an easy bake oven. I got one of those. I stuck my head in it. I was like, I want out of this narrative. I'm Nick Eek Laser. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. The winners of this show will get a $75 Sponsored Job Credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. But you kept repaying debts in ways that like even later in your, it wasn't early

22:42that early on. I remember just as a sort of typical, I was a Rolling Stone rock writer who didn't know enough about certain things. And you said some stuff about Willie Dixon at a certain point that made me, it literally was like a white bulb going over my head. Hold on. Like my whole understanding of the blues, you're sort of not giving a much attention to the guy who wrote half the greatest standard, you know, blues songs of all. Don't even get me started on that. I mean, I don't know if you know the story about the songwriter's Hall of Fame. Yes. Please tell us. Well, I mean, you write it wrong. We were inducted sometime in 1975 or something like that. And then we were re-inducted for a special merit award later on. And I was looking through the back of the, you know, the back of the cattle and not the catalog, but the promotion of the program. And they list every year, you know, who's been inducted from the inception of the songwriter's

23:44Hall of Fame. And I'm looking through it and I'm going, wonder what year Willie Dixon was? It must have been a long time ago, probably even when they first started. I could not find him in there. And I absolutely blew a gasket because Willie was a dear friend of mine. I was very close with him the last two years of his life. And as you know, I mean, the guy wrote all of the greatest blues, he broke the mold in writing blues songs, you know, it was extraordinary to me. So I basically went on the rampage. I wrote letters to like a keythritchard and all these people that said, yeah, we're all on your side. And I literally threatened the songwriter's Hall of Fame. I said, I'm sending all my stuff back. You know, you can have my awards. I can't believe that Willie Dixon, some of the, you know, and I listed some of the people that they've gotten there. And I said, you got someone so in that song, so in that you don't have Willie Dixon, the greatest blues contemporary songwriter of all time.

24:45And of course, the acquiesce in the end. And I, you know, I went and inducted him. And I basically said, you know, without Willie Dixon, all of these British rock bands and you know who you are would be half a setless short, you know. So luckily, I, you know, I got to induct him. But like all of these Hall of Fame still make its mistakes. I mean, do you know that Pete Townsend isn't in the songwriter's Hall of Fame? Well, has he written any good songs? It's like the guy singing. The guy singing. The guy singing. The guy singing. The guy singing. But Pete Townsend isn't. Do you have any understanding of why? And it makes no sense. Well, their whole concept now has changed. It's all about performance. Who they, you know, trying to get anyone who's just. Yeah, to make it TV. The fundraiser in there. By the way, it's only in every field of show. I mean, I know people say the same thing about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. All of the whole of the. You can say it about the Michelin stars. Exactly. It's all baseball hall of fame, you know, it's whatever.

25:47But anyway, I digress there. No, talking about Willie's never boring to me. Well, no, but by the way, your book, which I can only compare it to Bob Dylan's memoir in that both books have a, it's like, it's the same thing I love about you. You go where you want. Yes, you go where you want. And you cover who you think is meaningful to you. Right. Well, I appreciate it. And I'm glad you get that. No, and I kept on reading things and I'm like, you talk about a guy who drove you around and he's a compelling character almost like in one of your great lyrics. I know him. I feel, I love him. You reminded me then of the guy who drove my dad around who loved. He was like a right wing guy who loved the village people. And like, it brought up, you bring these people alive in the book. You talk about my, you know, there's so many people, but I was speaking to a hit lyricist, friend of mine. And we were just discussing that there is no, you talk about the greatest songwriting

26:49teams of all time. And I didn't meet John Lennon, but I got to, you know, meet Paul McCartney and he and Linda ordered me to marry my wife. So I, I'm, you know, I worked with backer, and met how David and I, I will say there is no team that is more perfect in terms of what they did for one another. And I will say that because like, as someone was saying to me, I actually watched in his home once when I was doing interviewing out in for a documentary, him and a piano just sort of playing around and you go, okay, he's far and away. Like the most remarkable sort of musical songwriter of all time. But and if you listen to the history of your work with him and, and with, and then some of his work without you, the truth is, as great as he is, it's infinitely more artistic and interesting because you have a lyricist who is not trying to write a hit lyric. You're trying to tell a story.

27:49Right. Now, well, that's, yeah, that's always been the preference to me. I don't think we ever, ever sort of set about trying to write hits. You know, okay, we need a new record. We've got the writer hit single. It just was what we did. We wrote what we wanted to do. We wrote in all kind of genres. I don't think any two things sound similar. I think they all come from a different place. And that comes from an absolute love of all kinds of music. You know, I mean, I personally, I'm a jazz fanatic. That's all I really listen to. I don't listen to pop music. I don't listen to a lot of rock anymore, you know, but at the same time, every genre has influenced me and him in some way. And we've melded those together, those influences. He's had an influence on me musically and I've had an influence on him musically.

28:52I certainly bought the sort of countryside of things to him. Hence, you know, obviously, Tumbleweed connection. He went along with it and he sounded like he came from the south. So we've all, what's really interesting about Tumbleweed is it's something that I don't think happens anymore. If you think about the album that we made before that, which was the black album, which was heavily orchestrated and very classical things like 60 years on and the King must die, take me to the final. 60 years on, which is now rather tight. Yes, very timeless, very time. Oh, that's the album. That's the album, don't quote the lyrics because it says, I've no wish to believe it. We're glad you lied. But my point is that if you look at that record and then you look at Tumbleweed connection, you couldn't get two more, absolutely different kind of records. And that was what was so wonderful about that period of time.

29:53Yeah, we were making like two records, two albums a year. You were on a streak. Well, everybody did back then though. That was contractually what record companies wanted. But not with the artistic and commercial success that you had from, I'm going to say 1970 did. Right. Well, that's not my, it's not my job to say. But what I'm saying is that that was very contractually what record labels were telling you to do back then. It was a do you're a good, what was common place, what you practice. When you were in a sweet spot, was it hard to do for you? No, not at all. I've always said, I've never had to drive, you know, patch in my life as far as creating. But back then, you know, we were so young and so vigorous and vital and all we had in life was touring and recording. We didn't really have even time to formulate a different way of living because all we did

30:56was tour and record. You went on every tour? I did in the early days. Yeah. Now, did you have a, forgive me because I'm naive about this. Did you have a formal role or you just wanted to go? No, I wanted to go. I mean, because I wanted to experience the world. I wanted to see America, you know, I mean, that's what we got to see a lot of it touring because, you know, you fly in, you go to the holiday in, you go to the gig, you go back to the holiday in, and you fly out again, you know. But at least I can say I've been probably in every city in this country, you know, and I've drawn all of my experiences from this country. That's why everything, the majority of our canon is Americana. Right. And it changed your life that first trip. Absolutely. Well, the thing is that when we first came here, you know, we were only here for a short time and then we came back and you mean here LA to LA, yeah.

31:59And the second time I came back was really when I said, this is an, I'm staying, you know, I'm not going. But that's when I said, I've got to see the country. I can't just have said I've been to LA and obviously we went to New York, you know, and, but I wanted to see the fly over. And so I literally, you know, rented a car and I drove across country and that trip was what was really the blueprint for the Madman Across the Water album, which I look back on as really an American road trip because all the songs on that album come from that road trip. You know, there's Leavon in New York and then, you know, there's tiny dancers in LA, but then there's things like razor face and Madman, you know, which are all part and parcel from part of the trip, you know, that I took. I drew characters and places and ideology from that particular trip and it all ended up

33:06in that album. And on this new album, there's another great song with a, that Spotlight's brand new Carlisle, I'll know, a great artist, right? Now, you use California and I think it to me is like, it's about love. And, and, and, and, it's a love song to my wife. But, you know, we're way California, America, that's all and the love runs deep. Right. And it seems all connected. Well, it's, it's both, it's kind of, it's a two way street because it's a love song to my wife and it's a love song to California. Also, you know, I'm not so much in love with California as I probably was back then, you know, because it's changed so much. But the music of California was such a part of both Elton and I's growing up. You know, that's what we wanted to experience. That's what bought us here in the first place, the music. And being able to come here and immerse ourselves in like renting a Mustang and tearing down

34:11the freeway and cranking up the radio because we didn't have a radio like that in England. We didn't have that kind of FMAM thing where you could hear the Beatles and then hear Arita Franklin, then hear Otis Rating and then hear Linda Ronstadt. What did you have? Well, it was much more calculated and formulated in England. I mean, later on, obviously, we had things like pirate radio, which really broke them all, and caused the BBC to open up its doors and get a little bit more contemporary. But there was nothing like American radio, you know, everything about it, the disc jackeys, you know, people like Scott Muni and Wolfman Jack. And it was so romantic, you know, late at night, but going to, that's why it says in the song, you know, tear down that freeway, lay on the horn, you know, come on California to an radio on, you know, I mean, I just wanted that to be, as I say,

35:16a love song to two ways, two things. And one, you know, one is sort of, goes hand in hand with the other. Well I think, I don't know, I don't want to speak for Phil, but I think, I think of the people who, the reason I'm in California, I moved here 91, but I think why did I love California? And it, it, it says something that I think you, Elton, Brian Wilson, like the, the, the cal, the music of California is one of the reasons I eventually, when Yom Warner said, why didn't you just move there? You love it so much. And I said, like I, that's how I became the West Coast Bureau chief. I didn't know that. Oh, that was, that was, wow. And get the restaurants, another comments, a common ground here. The day I arrived here, the record business was so much money back then. It was the end of something, but even that, they, they were a party for me at La Dome,

36:17which is, which is a main setting in scatter shot. And I'm reading such a great part of that book. Oh, my God. Yeah. So tell us about your, now that Phil has provided us with food from a dire that you won't eat. What? But it's, it's such a, well, it's interesting because I, one of my previous, is, my previous marriages, and I, it's in the book, I was married to the woman who was the matredee at La Dome for years and years. And then later on when we were married, we started a restaurant called Sikater on Melrose. Yes. It wasn't terribly successful, but it learned, I'd learnt from it that never invest in restaurants. I, in my life, I've done two things that are money pits, horses and restaurants. Absolutely. Although I enjoyed the horse part much more than the restaurant, although I love restaurants and I'm a huge foodie and again, going back to that coming to California from England in 1970.

37:17Oh, God, food must have been, well, back then, you know, it was true about English food, you know, it was tasteless. There weren't any great restaurants. Funnily enough, London is probably one of the culinary epicenters of the world. Absolutely. I mean, people don't realise. Culture it, culturally, it's unbelievable now. So it's worth going back there. So you were through it. It just came back. They have an amazing restaurant. It's as good if not better than here. Yeah. Really great. I mean, I was thought New York was, you know, one of the finest dining capitals in the world, but I think London's equal to it now. Yeah, but I, I will say that LA is also one of the greatest. But in retrospect, like I said, back then in 1970, it was quite true. The food in England hadn't become progressive at all. There wasn't, there was some pretty decent Indian food and that was about it. But obviously, coming to California and being able to get a pizza at two o'clock in the morning and the cultural event was unbelievable.

38:19It was unbelievable. Of this. I mean, the record, the restaurants and the record stores, you know, Tower Record was like our mecca. Yeah. In fact, it was actually one of the reasons I got Elton to change his mind because originally, he didn't want to come to LA, not because he didn't want to visit, but because he thought that his star was on the rise in England and he felt if he went to the States, he may lose the momentum he was gaining in sort of London. But I said, yeah, but think of the record store, man. You know, there's that place, Tower Records apparently and the clubs and think of the people we might meet. And of course, that, you know, it changed his mind, not that I was the catalyst of that, but I certainly had a hand in it. And so I'm lucky we did. And all of those came true. We did get to meet his heroes. You know, we got to meet Brian Wilson and Leon Russell and Quincy Jones and people like that and Neil Diamond and then we got to go to Tower Records.

39:23It was like kids in a candy store. And Elton talking about Tower Records in Rolling Stone is the reason it became, again, when music becomes as close as you have to a religion, that was mecca to me. I had to, we didn't have that yet in New York. And my first trip out here, I spent more money than I was making on my trip, you know, at Tower Records because he, I read he had a, like a supermarket that he had, he would actually use like a supermarket. Yeah, when he'd go in there with lists of records from Billboard, but one of the dumbest things that I ever did was when we used to go on the road, I used to say, to the guys at Tower Records, so keep me one copy of everything that comes out, you know, in the weeks I'm gone. And of course, so I ended up with, you know, can you imagine the amount of crap that I ended up with, which I had up to a couple of years ago and I kind of went through everything and sorted through all my vinyl, you know, I never got rid of my vinyl. I had like 300,000 albums in my warehouse, you know, but I literally had to, I literally

40:28spent like a month going through all the records and going nah, nah, nah, and getting rid of them all. Now I've paired it down, so. But I never, never got rid of my vinyl, you know, Elton got rid of his and made, that was the biggest mistake he said that he ever made and he tried to, he's since then tried to get it all back, you know, but I've still got, I mean, I've still got some of the first records that I ever purchased in my life, even back to when I was 14, 15, you know, and when Elton and I used to share an apartment, his, his mother's apartment in Northwood Hills in the suburbs of London, you know, we shared a room and when we, you know, we'd buy or say we bought a like copy of Electric Ladyland, you know, he bought his copy, I bought mine. And I would put like this tiny little circle on the back of, you know, and he'd go, why are you doing that?

41:28And I said, well, you know, we're not going to be living together forever. You know, I want to know which is mine. And it was funny because a couple of months ago, I pulled it out and it's still there on the back. That's amazing. You know, tiny circle on the back. Since you mentioned her, I actually, for the first time since I saw it originally, I put on Rocket Man last night before I couldn't sleep. I was so excited. And I was looking at it. And I was thinking, can you tell me one nice or funny story about his mother because I feel like in movies, we have to make people, you know, darker or whatever it is. Yeah, they made a doc too early in the movie, you know, but I think that had to be done. And, but was there a fun, nice, oh yeah. No, it was, it was wonderful. I mean, in the early days, there was his mother. There was sort of a gang of girls that she used to get together with. There was a neighbor called Mavis who lived next door.

42:29And then there was Auntie Wynn who was a sister. And they would, they would all get together in the front room and listen to James last album and, you know, smoke copious amounts of cigarettes. But we would play, you know, we would play her, you know, went out and I would write a song, you know, she'd say, oh, yeah, that's a nice one. A lot that one. Yeah. Oh, good one. That could be a hit, you know. No, she was really in love. And if she didn't like it, you wouldn't, you wouldn't pursue it. Don't know about that. It's a bit, it's a bit old, isn't it? A bit funny. It's a little bit funny. What are you trying to say there? You know, I love that this is your editor. But no, she was really encouraging, but then as time went by, she got very bitter and changed drastically. And it was really sad. And I know it really hurt Elton. She didn't want to know about his kids. You know, she wasn't supportive of his marriage.

43:32And it was, it, she became very bitter and very much like the character in the movie later on. I mean, that was on point, you know, bitter about being lonely or bitter about life in general. She hated everything. She had no joy and no love for anything. Wow. And I don't really know what caused that. She kind of lived in the past. She always thought things were better in the past, you know, but she's not 100% wrong. No, no, she was not right at all. But yeah, but the movie, that, it was important to do that. But we, you know, the movie was our movie and we got to say what we wanted to say. And it wasn't like somebody yet because a lot of people say to me, well, what did you think of the movie? Did you like it? You know, and it's like, yeah, we made the movie. You know, it was our, you know, companies that got together and did it. So it was what we wanted it to be.

44:34The only thing I'll complain about is that the actor who played you who was quite good wasn't quite handsome enough. I felt, I felt they underplayed one of the other guys. I'm sure he's listening now going away. Oh, the sun he was in. Yeah, but he's a terrific actor. Yes. I'm so glad that Jamie got to play that part because I was, I was very, I was pretty impressed that they got him to do it. He was great. The interesting thing is if you watch the movie, I would say if you haven't read the book, also read the book about the early relationship, the interaction because one of the things I think is so fantastic about your partnership is like the way you write about, you know, the sort of like, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, ordinary life. Well, no, no, no, but about how your reaction to him may be had, fancing you, getting caught up in the moment, right, a little bit. And the way it's picked in movie is quite wonderful. But in the book, I think it just such a wonderful statement about, like that was a time when

45:35maybe it was more, it would have been considered more scandalous or whatever. But just the way like Elton came out in Rolling Stone, a magazine before I, the way before I was there, I just thought, the way you write about it is such a model for people who are like, again, like I said in the book, it was something that had to be got off the table, you know, let's, let's take care of it now. Let's get it done. All right, fine. Moving on. But that's allowed this relationship. But even like, I will say I, I was around Bert and I a lot with Elvis Costello. And then I spent a little time with Hal David. And I saw that in a lot of partnerships, there's a lot of resentment, a lot of tensions. And like in that case, I think, well, I, I think, I think the thing is that, and I say that in the book, that if we were like minded and the same character of the same sexual orientation, I don't think it would have lasted. I don't think, unless we were able to develop our own lives of which we've done, and you

46:37know, we don't see each other very much, you know, luckily because the, the one thing that is nice nowadays is you can do Zoom calls or FaceTime. So it's actually like being together and talking to each other, which we do regularly. But we live absolutely completely opposite kind of lives, you know. So everybody knows how he lives and not that many people know how I live, which is fine by me. But it's, it's, it's completely different. And that's what's kept our relationship still burning today. Propel Fitness Water With Gatorade Electrolites, Zero Sugar, and Vitamins, Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade Electrolites.

47:39Nicky Glazer, this stunning tour. The thoughts of death I don't like to dwell on them for longer than like 10 or 15 hours a day. So November 19th, Yamavath Theater. No wonder women rush to have kids were being trained for it since we were kids. They're like, here's a baby doll. Here's an easy-bait coffin. I got one of those. I stuck my head in it. I was like, I want out of this narrative. Tickets on sale now at Yamavathether.com. Don't miss Nicky Glazer. Yamavath Theater. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use indeed sponsor jobs. Use your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsor job credit at nnd.com slash podcast. That's nnd.com slash podcast, terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for indeed sponsor jobs.

48:45The story is, and he tells it all the time, you never had an argument. You never had a right. I love hearing this because it's unrealistic. There's got to be, has there ever been a time where you write lyrics? You give it to him. I know. No, we've never had an argument about what we're writing. Never. No. The arguments have occasionally been on a business level or something. That's not something I really want to go in. No, that's fine. What I can't understand being a writer and having other people have to read my work or interpret my work. There's never been like, yeah, I can't do this one. Or you writing a lyric, I'm imagining you kind of hear it in your head. And he comes out with it. Let's say a different tempo. This was supposed to be a slow song. Why are you making it a lot more slow? I think sometimes, and I've said this on different occasions, I think a lyric sometimes dictates

49:53the kind of melody it's going to embrace. If you do Saturday nights or right for fighting, it's not going to be ballad. If you don't let the sun go down on me, it doesn't really call for an uptempo rock kind of thing. But some are, yeah, some of them are open to it. And as I develop my songwriting skills over the years, obviously I've become more musically inclined when we very first started out. I didn't even know how to formulate a lyric. I didn't know anything about bridges and choruses. Well, to the point, you wrote this album. Elton didn't write the music on this album. No, I know. And the thing is that I'm getting off point here going back to what you just said there is that this album wouldn't have been the album it is. If I had had farmed these lyrics out to other people, it wouldn't have had the cohesiveness. And it wouldn't be satisfactory to me. I had to write these songs because this song is, I called it, sort of a late life manifesto.

50:59You know, I couldn't have written this album 20 years ago because I wouldn't have wanted to say that I wouldn't have had the ammunition to write the songs that I'm writing now. Every song on this album with probably a couple that there's only one real story song on this album and that's old dog. You know, that's me going into my sort of storytelling mode. The rest of it, everything on there pertains to my life, past, present, and future. Well, by the way, it ends with, I have to mention a few songs that really mean a lot to me. You do a song with your daughter, which is, there's a few songs that it comes to mind over history, very few, but like there's a every grain of sand by Bob Dylan, their songs, which you really, I always think like, okay, this is like, if this is my last song, this is where I'm sharing whatever I've learned and passing it on.

52:02You did it with, or if every young is in a way, could have been that for, but you did this with your daughter, a song that is literally about. It's just a beautiful voice, brother. It's thank you. And you know, it had to be my daughter or one of my daughters because what would the sense of being having any other random female singer do it? It wouldn't have made any sense to me. I mean, it probably would to the listener, but I'm singing to my daughters this song. So I needed, and the fact that she has a beautiful voice was cream, you know, I was like, the cream on top for me, you know, because I'm singing to her and it's actually her singing back. And coming soon on part two of Phil and David's naked lunch with Bernie Taupin, we've never come to blows or argued over the creative process. As I say, you know, he's always been in his worst condition in his darkest days.

53:06I know that he probably knew that I disapproved and I wasn't happy with the way he was living, but I wasn't particularly happy with the way I was living either. So I had my own demons to deal with. Did they call himself? I think he always says, well, I don't think Bernie was too happy with some of the things that I wore on stage. Did I think that going on at Central Park and at Donald Duck Outfit was kind of ludicrous? Yeah, kind of. It's hard to sing your song. Yeah, and being taken seriously. I was there. I was in the park. I remember him laughing through your song. Well, he could sit in the pan. Yeah. Because he had a duck ass. You were there. I was there. There's a picture of me in the New York Times. They took it from behind Elton and that's how close I was that I'm in the photo. Naked Lunch is a podcast by Phil Rosenthal and David Wilde, theme song and music by Brad

54:07Paisley, produced by Will Sterling and Ryan Tilletson, with engineering by Xavier Thomas, video editing by Daniel Ferreira and Motion Graphics by Alia Med, an executive produced by Phil Rosenthal and David Wilde. And don't forget to check out the show week to week on serious XM stars, Channel 138. Nick E. Glazer, this stunning tour. The thoughts of death I don't like to dwell on them for longer than like 10 or 15 hours a day. So November 19, Yamavath Theater. No wonder women rushed to have kids were being trained for it since we were kids. They're like, here's a baby doll. Here's an easy bake oven. I got one of those. I stuck my head in it. I was like, I want out of this narrative.