Albanese's selfie diplomacy

0:00ABC Listen, podcasts, radio, news, music, and more. Do you ever think that maybe the people making all the important decisions don't have a clue what they're doing? Stable, stable coins. Do you know what a stable coin is? Does anybody know, please raise your hand. The obvious solution to war is to have the West having the strongest, most precise, deadly weapons possible. That's that, Kevin. And on my show, if you're listening, we take a look at every terrible decision that led to where we are today. New episodes every Tuesday and Thursday on ABC Listen, or wherever you get your podcasts. Today, the Australian people have voted for Australian values. The choice is simple for the Liberal Party, change or die. The public, a second tide, are being ignored. We need to have more Australian everything. We need to manifest a high-profile Australian. We're here to beat down one nation, and we're here to replace Labour.

1:03People are starting to see that there is actually a different way of doing politics. Hello and welcome to the party room. I'm Patricia Carvallis joining you from Rundreet Humtree in Melbourne. And I'm Frank Kelly on the Gadigal Land of the Oranation in Sydney. Sydney is it raining today? It's not raining today. It's glorious today. Well, I took a week off for school holidays and headed to Sydney where my partner's family is from. So I spend quite a lot of time in Sydney, and it just rained the whole time. And I spent, I used it as a weapon, of course. And I was like, well, your city's not delivering, is it? I heard a tough... I heard a tough... Absolutely. I was like, I heard a big game about Melbourne, but as we see, it's shiny and sunny in Melbourne. It's spring, which means it's kind of random everywhere I won't lie. Yeah, but PK, let's face it, a rainy day means more time for the West Wing, am I right? It's correct, you've nailed it. Yeah, we're in that season at the moment, mid-sea. It's the middle of the whole sort of 200 seasons, I'm exaggerating, obviously.

2:04It's the mid-tunes. Yeah, it's like there's some bad episodes, there's some good episodes. We're just kind of like... Just holding it together. You know, a slump of a season, but we're holding it together. It's funny how that happens, isn't it? Like, you're watching a series, it's fabulous. Then they do this really dud series. The homeland was like that. They had two really wacky... No, one's love. Of the page. Homeland more than you, though. I love home. You love Carrie. You love that crazy lady. You love her. She's so crazy. Come on, she came good. Oh, she's so crazy. But I love Timeland. Not quite as much as you. What are you watching, by the way, or reading or doing this? Ooh, what am I watching? No, I'm actually, you know what I'm doing this week. I'm reading Magnet's Amansk's new book, because I'm going to interview Magnet at this Sydney Opera House, which I'm really looking forward to. And it's incredible. This book is so intense. I really recommend it. It's just out. I think this week, I really recommend people have a read.

3:05She is an incredible writer. And this book is very, very intense. It's fabulous. Excellent. Okay, that is a good recommend. Fran, we could talk popular culture all day, but should we head to Question Time? Yeah, I guess we should. I guess I'll leave two questions for now. Notice how there are any questions that could be called to be honorable, the leader of the opposition. Yeah. Prime Minister. The bells are ringing. That means it's time for Question Time. This week, our first question comes from Tom from Newcastle, now London. Hi, Fran and PK. Tom here. We constantly hear in the media, the greens are a threat to labors left. And now, one nation has become a threat to labour on the right. Seeing that the Liberal Party's greatest threat to the left in the past few years has been the till movement. Why aren't we seeing the new community strong Australia spend a stegel party being discussed as a threat to labour on the right? Love the pod. Cheers, Tom. Well, I think we're not seeing them being discussed as a threat because they're not a threat yet. I mean, there's only two members.

4:06I think it was interesting that when they launched the community strong Australia, so many of the tills didn't join up and made a big picture about their whole brand and their whole strength being in them being independent community members, you know, not a part of a party. So I think we'll have to wait and see how that plays out. But at this point, I just think they don't, you know, there is some strength in numbers and at the moment, those two are very, very potent, I think, impressive politicians. But as a force, they are not that yet. Yeah, I think that's right. And let's see how that develops because clearly it takes such a long time to build sort of brand recognition and to become part a movement that kind of grows. It doesn't happen easily. And it can easily collapse too, right? You know, I think about a political party like the Democrats, that just kind of collapsed. Clearly the Greens are at a crossroads.

5:06We got into that detail in yesterday's podcast with Charles. It might take a while. I do think they need more members than just the two for them to kind of galvanise something bigger. And I've always said, Fran, I might be totally wrong, but I don't love the name. I'm sure they did some research. No, I don't love the name either, to be honest. I just doesn't stick in my head. It doesn't sound like a party. Community is strong Australia. It doesn't sound like a political party. It sounds just like a statement. Yeah, yeah. So a few words strung together really. Not that a name is everything. But you know, you look at how long it can take though. And I think the best example is Pauline Hansen's One Nation party. And the 30 years it's taken for that brand to go off. It takes like brand recognition knowing what you are. All of that takes quite a long time. Which does not mean that these two individuals and in fact all those community independence having an impact on one, having an impact. And I think they certainly have.

6:06They certainly have. All right, let's go to our next question. It's from Rebecca. Hi, Fran and PK. Rebecca here. Long time listen over the podcast and politics now. I have a question about Angus Taylor's budget request speech earlier this year, where they announced a policy to index income tax brackets to inflation. I think this is a great policy, but it doesn't seem to have got much cut through. Why is this? And will this be a key battleground for the 2028 election? Thank you. PK, I know you're dying to raise into that one. I can almost predict what you're going to say, but you say it. OK. So much, so much to say on this. First thing, it was a huge and significant policy, right? Actually indexing our tax brackets to inflation. It's something that purest economists have long wanted politically. No one really understood why you would do it because you get the one hit in the announcement. And that's already over. And then you don't get to kind of politically craft tax cuts when it suits you

7:10to make people think you're giving them a goody because it just happens as part of the system. That's no reason not to do it. And I give absolute credit to Angus Taylor for kind and the party for doing the thing that they think is in the right economic decision rather than the right political decision. However, your question is why hasn't it cut through? Well, that's, oh, I'm going to sort of flip the question and say why hasn't Angus Taylor full stop had any cut through? I mean, that's really the fundamental question. I think it's a little bit the salesman. It's a little bit the brand. And it's a little bit how they put this together, kind of announced. So they could get a big bang and show that he was going to be more bold than his predecessor, Susan Lee, that he was going to return to the economic story. But yeah, as inflation becomes a battleground increasingly, I don't know if this is fit for purpose unless they can also demonstrate the offsets because all it does is pump money into the economy. We have an inflation crisis unless they can tell us how it won't be inflationary.

8:13It might end up being a political hotcake problem for them actually more than a gift. Yeah, I mean, I think you know, I think the answer is why doesn't this policy have much cut through? Because Angus Taylor doesn't have much cut through. And at the time, we congratulated both the major parties at the budget time for putting forward quite radical tax policies. Completely different, but significant radical policies. But this one was not, you know, we didn't get the background, we didn't get the offsets, all of that wasn't there. And when you've got a big policy like this, if it's a centre of your economic policy, you've got to keep talking about it. You just got to keep talking about it, keep talking about it, keep talking about it, until, you know, basically, the vote is one of vomit because I've heard about it so much. So that's what you've got to do. Angus Taylor hasn't got cut through. That's the long and the short of it in the short term. He is stepping up in the last few days. We are hearing a bit more from him. We talked about that yesterday, but the truth is that's the answer here. It's a significant, interesting policy.

9:15It has big economic implications, as you said, PK. But, you know, I think it's a significant part of this is the salesman at the moment. Yeah, it's such a significant part of the story, I think. Okay, our next question is a written one from Morgan. And I'll read it. Hey, Fran and PK, love the show. I just opened Facebook to see a grinning selfie of the PM with Donald Trump on the sidelines of the UN in New York. With Donald Trump's popularity so low in Australia and reactions to the post-roundly negative, is this an unwise move? I understand earlier criticism the PM wasn't gaining traction with the president, but this is giving Sikafantik and Iq. Is it a diplomatic move for Australia, US relations? Is it appeasing the wave of handsome voters? Do you think it's good, bad, or maybe inevitable choice? Why? Morgan. Oh, thanks, Morgan. Morgan, good question. I'm throwing it to Fran. Well, I know there was a pretty fierce criticism of the PM for this,

10:17but I think that it's just what you do, right? This is you meet global leaders. The US president is an important leader for anyone to be dealing with. Negotiating with, still one of our major trading partners and strategic allies. And the criticism of any prime minister when they can't get a meeting and don't have a relationship with the US president is intense and is rightly so. That's a dangerous position for an Australian leader to be in. So getting a selfie is it really so bad? I don't really quite understand the level of criticism the selfie attracted. I mean, yes, the PM like selfies. Yes, it shows that Donald Trump will have a selfie with him. Does it mean anything? No, not really. But if he hadn't been able to get a meeting, let alone a selfie, then he would have been round the criticise. So I don't particularly see this as a sick of antica. I see this as part of the job. It's definitely part of the job.

11:17So I'm going to maybe 50, 60% agree with you, but then provide. It's a tiny, tiny little touch up critique. It's part of the job generally to be polite and hold up, maintain strong diplomatic relationships and to nurture that and to if it's going to be an official ally, which is still the Australian position. And that's what the Labour Party has. To the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars with Orcas. Absolutely. However, it had a little bit of a sick of antica vibe up to it. Sorry, it's the hold up. Let's quickly take a selfie. Let's post it and show people. It had a sort of a taste of maybe they got in his head in the past. In relation to criticism that he hadn't, you know, hung out, hadn't got a meeting with Donald Trump. You know that went on and on. That criticism I felt like that was part of, oh, look, I see him all the time now. Here's a selfie. Was it particularly useful for him domestically politically? I think Trump is absolutely toxic, not only in Australia,

12:19but actually, you know, in the US. So I don't know if the picture was necessary, friend, to maintain all of that. Probably not necessary. But he is trying to meet him, all of that sure. But like, come on, did you have to stretch out your hand and get the selfie? Well, it's just like a, it's just like a reflex for politicians in this day. It's a reflex for nearly everybody in this day, right? And that's another pod. Yes. No, it is another pod. Yes. And maybe he, maybe he could curb that, that reflex sure. But I don't, look, I don't really, I don't see it as having anything to do with appeasing handsome voters, for instance. I don't think it's that. I think that's over investing in it, you know, did he need to do it? No. Did a lot of people hate it? Yes. But, you know, I don't know. I think he can overblow these things. I did note that David Schubridge, new Greens leader, as we spoke about him yesterday, called it cringe worthy and embarrassing. But then, you know, never let a shot go by, right? Ah, look, he would say that, right? So yeah.

13:19But maybe that's a sentiment and among maybe left-wing voters and, you know, the Prime Minister has to be aware of his left-wing flank as well. Sure. Whereas he's been more paranoid about his right-wing flank because of the rise of one nation. But maybe, you know, you mentioned Schubridge, we talked about this, of course, on the main pod. But watch that space, right? Because there is left-wing voters are there. And if Labour gives them the impression that they are sick of fantic, that is not helpful, I think, to the Prime Minister's retention of those inner-city seats, he's so proud he got back like the seat of Melbourne. Can next question comes from Elise from Canberra? Hi, P.K. and Fran. I was just wondering, what does it look like when Angus Taylor and Anthony Albanese meet to discuss policy ideas? Who's office today meeting? Who else is in the room? Is there coffee? Is there small talk? To be a fly on that wall? Love to hear your insights. Love the podcast. Cheers. Elise from Canberra.

14:19I love this question. Is there coffee? Is there small talk? I would love to be a fly on the wall too. Elise, to be honest, I have absolutely no idea. I do believe. I might be wrong, P.K. But I do believe it occurred in the Prime Minister's office. I think that's how the invite was tended. It's not that usual in the sense that it may happen more than we know, but it's not that usual we get to know about it. The fact that we knew about this was interesting. And of course, the topic it was on was interesting, which is immigration policy. Nothing came from it much, which was kind of also interesting, that we all knew about it, when nothing was going to come from it. But how does it go? I don't know, do you know? Well, I have not called anyone to get facts about whether it was Arnold's business. Whether they had Jats crackers or whatever. But you know, all things are politely catered, especially if you're having, you know, meetings in the Prime Minister's office. That's, you know, there's lots of sort of niceties of any official meetings. A cup of tea, isn't that unusual? No, it's not unusual.

15:21And you know, every, I will tell you, I'm not from the Prime Minister's office, but I meet ministers and others, and they, you know, there's different drinks in the office. Like there are some that have like fancy fizzy water, which I like, and others that, you know, like they will offer you a glass of water. I've only ever got a cup of tea. I'm not a tea lady. I'm just not into tea. Maybe that's why no one offers it. No, I think that'd been offered to you anyway. Look, I don't know what happened at the meeting. I will tell you this though. The Prime Minister got the impression very early on that there would be no deal on immigration. And I think that Angus Taylor on this one was a real hardliner. I didn't want to give Labour any win. And the Labour Party got the sense that, you know, this is just like pushing SHRT up a hill with these thoughts. That's what I was going to say. The Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, has a long history in the parliament, and a history of having relationships and friendships across the aisle. Like that's kind of one of the hallmarks of how he rolls as a person. But I'm pretty sure that the atmosphere in this meeting from the get-go would have been awkward.

16:24Yeah, I think on this one, given it's kind of this issue that right-wing politics, whether it's one nation or the Liberals are trying to destroy Labour on, is not exactly a cheery topic for him. Our next question comes from Simon. Hi, P.K. M. Fram. I'm very interested in the parallels between the rise of one nation and reform UK. They seem to have the same language, fed on the same grievances, have similar policies, as well as doing the same things. Case in point, Ziyusef, a prominent UK reform figure called Serben Wallace, a traitor and a moron, Wallace is a former Conservative Defence Secretary and former soldier. This has parallels with one nation depicting Andrew Hastie as a traitor and Pauline Hanson calling him the W word that rhymes with banker. Are they all copying each other? Is there some sort of far-right populist playbook and even frequent exchange of views between these groups? Do you think that such culture wars will mean one nation will never actually be able to govern

17:28because for the average Australian, I.E. a 38-year-old woman who works in the care industry, this is a big turn-off. Simon, there's a lot in that. Is there a playbook? I think there kind of is a playbook. You mentioned parallels between one nation and reform UK. I would say all of those are influenced by Trump and the Maga movement and the politics of the US. And even on the case of the war heroes, are they traitors, are they morons? Remember how Donald Trump really pillory John McCain, who was a war hero and what was Trump's comment at the time? He's not a hero. He's a loser. I like people who weren't captured. I mean, harsh. So that's part of the playbook too, right? So yes, this has parallels. Do I think that culture wars will mean one nation will never actually be able to govern? Because for the average Australian, this is a big turn-off. Well, we saw Donald Trump being a big turn-off for Australian voters in the last election. That was one of the reasons Labour got a big bump and bounced up in the polls

18:30when they had been trailing Peter Dutton coming into that year. But the polls are saying something very different now. And one nation has won a House in the lower... Has won a seat in the lower House. It's threatening in Victoria, the next state election in your state, and in your state, Pika in November, it's going to be really interesting to watch. So can they never govern? Well, I think it's a long time, perhaps, before they'll govern federally in their own right. But that's why we're hearing a lot of talk, remember, at the moment, certainly covertly and overtly about some kind of deal or coalition or arrangement with the federal coalition, liberal and national. So I would say never say never at this moment. Never say never. I know that the polling is very, very strong for one nation. I know that. I know that the polling for the Liberals is kind of collapsing. Yeah. But I think, and I've heard, I went to George McLeodgene's book launch

19:30and he was in conversation with the Prime Minister. And the Prime Minister used the rhetoric about Victoria, for instance. The election in Victoria, of course, is coming up in November. Big deal if you're a Victorian. Big deal, I think, for the country, it's such a test case for an old Labour government, lots of dead, lots of issues, is one nation going to search. And the PM used this framing that the Liberals can't govern without one nation. And I want to say, I think that that's, I just don't think that's right. I think it's a, he can say it politically, he can say whatever he wants. Yeah, you don't think it's accurate. Yeah. I don't think it's accurate. No. I think the Liberals absolutely, and I've said this when I say it again about Victoria because I'm quite obsessed with my state. Very possible that the Liberals can get a majority in Victoria. So I think we need to get, yes, even though with all this history that you ask about and the international parallels, yes, you think, Fran, you're right, that you might see some kind of version of an alliance, but I don't think it's quite true. And in terms of one nation ever being able to govern cause of this,

20:30and this actually goes to some of the work George does, actually, back to his book, he's getting a big spook here about the average Australian being a 38-year-old woman who works in the care industry. That is traditionally and has been why I think Anthony Elbedeizdi has been successful. Labor has spoken to those type of people. And it's helped those people with wage rises, you know? But I think we need in politics to not talk in such absolutes, and to assume that a 38-year-old woman who works in the care industry, and I'll add another element, and has one parent who's been worn overseas because we're a much more migrant country too, would never vote for one nation, is a little bit of an exaggeration. I'm not saying that I don't have a cap in metropolitan areas in terms of how much they can possibly grow. I think that's a real thing, but they're clearly resonating and recruiting much more broadly than just one thing now. And I just think watch that space. Yeah, but thanks for your question Simon.

21:30Thanks everyone for your questions. We love them. That's it from the party room today. Keep sending those questions in. We're especially fond of the voice notes if you can. Record it, email it to the partyroom at abc.net.au. David Spears will be back for insiders on background on Saturday. And then Pika, you are back, as always, with politics now on Monday and through the week. That's right, and it never missed an episode if you follow politics now on ABC Listen, which you should and share with your friends. See you, Fran. See you, Pika.