A new era begins for Scotland

0:00Welcome to the journal design Peter Martin, you will be Donald and Gordon Parks. Are with me in the Hummel studio. Don't forget if you want to take a special offer up on Hummel. You can indeed go onto the website. We'll put the link in where you can go to the website and claim a 15% discount on any kits you want to buy. Men's women's boys or girls full squad kits with Hummel. You can actually put on your own logo and build your own kit as well. Take advantage of it. PLZ soccer 15 put it in on Hummel's website and you'll get that 15% discount. We are sponsored by Cameron'scomersholes.com if you want to get a quality van for your company then show in your man Cameroncomersholes.com. So with you and Gordon here, hip step up their search for a new manager. Pock and Yoli is ready to belt out the national anthem but does he really need to? And over and above that Celtic board has reported losses and they've also backed Martin

1:03O'Neill. So give us your thoughts on that as well. This is the journals. Thank you very much to so many of you for joining us and giving us your thoughts on all our content. Armenia Bellfields Michael Kinyat, Inter Turcos, Vesavassara, Stephen Bradley of Sharmonock Rovers and John Dal Thomas and just a few of the names being linked to that hip job here. Yeah I know I was most intrigued to be on the social media of our first welfare friend Thomas McLeanis who is making claims that a lot of the names are in it just aren't in it so there is still a mystery surrounding all this. I know something about Armenia Bellfield who is once there in the biblical flood. But anyway, it will continue to, I just wonder what the thing that is linking all these names is, what they are actually looking for, who do they want?

2:08What do they want to come in and do what has been done at Motherwall and Johnston and Falcourt even or do they want somebody a bit more pragmatic? That will be the more interesting thing. I thought they would be further along than they actually are. Yeah, that is the key to it all now because if you are looking, you are saying to yourself, well look for managers, are we looking for them who are out of contract? Are we looking and looking at their past record of where they have finished in a leak? Or as Motherwall have done, are we looking at the style of football they played in if so? Who is scouting them on that basis? The names you have read out there, it is a property of who are they, what are their backgrounds? I think Habs will probably have caught in the hop. I don't think they would be expecting to be on a thing themselves, so soon, until they are in this predicament where they have got to look for somebody. What does a profile, would the Habs fans want? Malcolm McIrely, she has come to the phone now because her family has got contacts and

3:09knows the kind of European game and the names, he is one of them. He has got memories involving international scene as well, travelled around. There is a name that you have dug out there that is the appetite for Habs fans, I don't think so. I think the solution to Habs is close at home, I think Neil Leningham back there would be perfect. It is for you saying that because I spoke to Habs fans in the interview, a few of them at Easter Road at the weekend and the game against Aberdeen. Not many of them are against Neil Leningham going by, some of them suggested Simovar Valakare, but I have had a wee chat about that with some people and they say there is no chance that that is going to happen, but there is every chance if the money is right anywhere. I mean, we have all been told that things can't happen to equal the next day and find them just to have happened. I am surprised that the recruiting process at the moment, because there is a sense that

4:11the court on the hop, but it was their decision and you would always think, I always think that a chief executive of a football club, the Seal Dalek-Karaman thing, he has got to have an envelope and he is a list of the next managers, because managers believe you will either sign them or if a manager does well, he will go somewhere else. So, you would think at a little package in the rest, who we go for now. Again, I do not mind the fact that we do not know names and things like that, because Asquit did very well in Scotland and nobody really knew Asquit before the game. Even at a higher level, Poster Konglou was derided when he came. I am all for the fact that I do not know them or in that, let us give them all a chance, because some have done very well, again some have it. The thing I just sticked is I thought it would be further along, but then again, I have

5:13got three weeks of this long international break. Another thing about it as well, that you look at is the key to this, I think, is they have actually got a good score to inherit? They have two options to take. Derek McKinnis arrived at Hart's, completely cajoled and galvanised the group. I have had the fundamental basis for a good group there, they have a decent, but I think the work is harder, I just think it was in the time it did not ferment, quickly enough for the manager and he has a new lasty job. Did they go for a Derek McKinnis? You will then have to fit that, what do you know? What do they do? A mother role? Do they do a box kind of appointment in three or casually? Does it need a manager who is stronger than the board? 100%. That is becoming more prominent now how many managers fit that, can I profile and prepare to do that?

6:14You will then have to win the ball. I would suggest some. Absolutely. Another thing about it is, which to be fair to David Gray, in the context of what he achieved over a wider period rather than the immediate nightmare of six consecutive home defeats, I think he is record stands up. So I think there is a chance for David Gray to go elsewhere and maybe kickstart this year again. Absolutely. But the only thing I think, the main curi-sism is I thought they liked that identity and they lost their identity if they did indeed have one and the style of the play was lost as well. Obviously when you lose guys like Rocky, Bechirri at the back end, you start getting stupid. Goals away, I mean seven minutes of madness denies them, you are up here. I see. And then the loser, the premier goalscorer up front is well which is huge. I mean because we have talked about this often in the show and then guys, the lot of smith

7:14just used to say you are always good as your strikers, you know, and it makes such a change to, I mean it is so obvious but I guess that is not undervalued. So losing some of the other apps was a big blow. If you look at his league position, finishing more than decent I would say. But that sixth game run just, I think just killed him. The fact of matter is the reason there is a lot of interest in the hipster job is that anybody from outside looking in and say, you know what, not a bad squad here at all, big support, good ground, excellent good, fantastic training facilities. This is a job you can, great set, yeah, one you get. Yeah, one you get. One you get to set is in Europe and some of your sudden yourself say, you know what, I can make a real goal with this. Because expectations are not huge. I mean, the next reason is they are not coming when a league. Next big test is a more or less finish where David Gregor, maybe got caught, maybe got

8:15a style, maybe get people roaring on in the line. One of the byproducts of heart has been so good last season. Yeah, that all right. Generated a kind of new flavor for Eddenborough, the capital, it brought it into focus and they are peeled now for, I mean, I look at John Dow Thomas and everyone knows he has, he has certainly coached a high level. But that would be cool. Yeah. And I think the attraction of coming in, there is a different proposition that maybe it was 12 months ago. Yeah, and you can take the old scale of hearts in a game and a darby game then. Well, I, and in the, the flag moments against hearts as well, you know, even the last season that looked as if where, you know, like I said, off that they could hold out for a draw etcetera, etcetera, didn't. So that, that, I said it. But yeah, hearts, hearts is a, is a great, a, diamond. The other thing about hearts culturally as well is there's always been, as far as, I mean, I go by any, many, any kids, but there's always been a feeling about hearts that

9:18they've got to be an attractive forward going club. That is a culture, the club excitement from the famous five through to the, to the Jimmy Roachs and Alan Gordon's and Stanton's and Edward's and Duncan's and, and I think getting that back on track would be a massive thanks for the hit. Well, he's, though, if, first, waiting up on a cold sweat, screaming about your reality, David Grease reality is three minutes. I got the club for the first time in the group stage of a European competition. More than that, in the derby, they get them a self-level and they got a red card which is crazy. They are moments of absolute horror for a manager and that's what they're doing for, basically. Yeah, absolutely. Give a true thought on who you think should be the next Hibbernian manager, is there somebody out of left field that we haven't discussed on this? Can you go back to Neil Lennon, you know, interest, the board enough to go back for him?

10:19He certainly changed the mindset of a club that was maybe happy with draws here in the E-Cerm, he was a winner who wanted much, much more for that club. Didn't quite end the way he wanted, but then again, it's a different board, maybe a different mindset now for the people involved. Or should they be looking at somebody who's certainly got St Johnston playing a good brand of football and maybe not the canon, father and relegation tip that many thought after seeing some of their displays of late. Give us your thoughts on that. We're going to talk Rangers Celtic and, of course, 10-it-6 as well, all to look forward to, but of course, with three weeks of an international break, it's now about Scotland and Sebastian Pock and Yoli. What can he do with the squad that he has assembled? It's a bright new dawn, it's a change of style of football, is it still hoping to qualify for Euro 2028? What's your take on it all? And it'll be really interesting to see the players that he selects in his first starting

11:2011. For four games, we've got Slovenia on Saturday away, Tuesday at home to Switzerland, Saturday away, the following Saturday to North Macedonia, and then a Tuesday game at home to Slovenia. That's the four matches in this next three weeks as the domestic football takes a side seat. Now, I noticed that some people said that he's been learning the national anthem. I really couldn't hear of Sebastian Pock and Yoli, never sang for the out of Scotland. And this marked him, it's very odd. The English press went mental about it. And I thought a bit too old. He just goes, well, it's not. It's just these little bits of, it's obviously being done, I mean, I just think it's these little bit of froth, you know, all these things. You think back to the old days, it's a social media and visible construct that it wouldn't

12:22have been attained in the old days. It's one for the fraud squad, isn't it? I thought I became the French manager and I learned the national anthem and I go, I'm a fraud and I'm chatt, I love to sing it, right? But what are you? You're certainly not French, right? Yeah. He's not Scottish. It is absolutely. I can tell you though, I come by and I'm full of the schools I'm did sing La Marsale is in the stadium in Qatar before France, Viennmark, thus stunning my son in Ande who didn't realise I could never look that way because we, these were the days before your times you could talk all the national anthems in school and now he's singing them in all the ones and things like that. I didn't sing it with any sort of P2O2, I just think there's a right-goon, it's a banger. Yes, it is a banger. And Poccignol is defence, there's reeks to me of the journalist asking the question, have you learned a nice song? Yes, yes. That is what it's called.

13:23Yeah, tongue in cheek, yes. Try not to slaughter your mates, I was asking you. I'm also identifying who actually asked the question, I think. The thing I'm more interested in is how he sets up the team. I cannot wait. And he's made a few interesting selections, I don't think he's pulled in with the, you know, completely that will start from what I've failed, but he's made a few interesting selections and I'll be... And so I think the Buddha as well, he's got a bit of time, he worked with him as well, it's a good time to take know of him, you know, three weeks, four matches, good time to lay down what you want. Well, you're going to get a new shaker, sure, a bit of... Absolutely. And then digs, there's no shayatoms, there's no Lauren Shanglin, so the boy you are is basically on your go. Oh, he is well, boy is well. That's these problems, I mean, I point you at the other one with what was missed, who stand or fall by the goals, I look at that attack and talent, he's got to make the right decisions, he's made already, I'm my opponent, I call the wrong one.

14:24Which are? You're has to find his feet in Spain and go and show that he can do it at that kind of level. I'm a good one for me, so I know him starter. It's a step back, listen, all of them at Burnley goes and does what he does, and he's effective for the teams at a place where he's championship, going to school, records good, he's not an international class or anybody underneath it. Well, he's our class and all of that, so, but Bobby's school and goals against your weakness, right? That's the man from, for me, I thought, he was... David Gray was still being a job, but Bobby was... But for the fall, that's the problem, right? For me, I'm not a massive phenomenon as a person. I've got several personal experiences with him, which you've stand that up. I just don't think he's an international class. Well, I would dismiss out of hand right away whether you like him or not. Yeah, I get that. I've come across a lot of internationalists that I couldn't stand, but if they can score goals, stop goals or create goals, a lot of horrible things. He's proven it international level, he's not being able to do that. No, no, no, no, no, but the point, I was at the point, I think, that's for the benefit

15:28of all of Macburney and anybody else who becomes the forward, it's not to judge them, you know, on past appearances, because quite simply, all of Macburney or quite a few other strikers would have struggled in Steve Clark's system. Because he wasn't really a proactive manager, he was a... It wasn't really... He was always reactive and we were very much a cautious side. You know, the crux of our goals were from midfield, which tells you everything you need to know about the way the team played you. So I only make money. If this guy is going to play a progressive, I'm not... I'm not... I'm low to say the word attacking because, you know, Scotland at the best of times against better size will be forced to defend, but he's certainly going to try and be a wee bit more expansive than Steve Clark was. No, just... I'm not degrading Steve Clark. He got us to three championships, but we want to see a different style of football. Yeah, that... That'll be the interesting thing because I thought when there's a style of football that

16:30is universal for you, people talk about it and progress a position based on it, I think... I don't think... I know we were better just being Scottish. That sounds staffed and it sounds primal, that sounds primeval and unsophisticated. But when we did things with energy, with peace, with aggression, with beat Spain and with beat Denmark, and they were the two best performances. So you got... I mean, I know you can't just blow the bugle and over the charges, I get that. Yeah. But I think the best international teams and the most successful international teams have that something about it, you know, where it's Spain, where it's all possession and we don't play with centre-fords and everybody buys into this or whether it was Germany or Haiti, there's a bit of physicality about it, a bit of aggression about it, where it's Brazil or the Sambo. I think national teams have to have something about them and some kind of culture.

17:31This is what we do well. This is what we want you to play a bit of our game. Yes. You know, we want to put you in a bank food and Spain was a classic example of that. We want to put you in a bank food, we don't want to say about and play your game of possession food. So it'll be interesting to see how Pungy and Yoli adapts to that and what he brings in these new ideas. I'm very excited by new stats. Always are. You know, it's not just that I'm hugely hopeful because the guys got basically the same pool to fish in as others got the managers, but I'm interested in what he can bring to the gig. I'm interested in, there's obviously an old guard slipping out, I'm going to be central defense or be interesting or you know, will bank start, etc, etc. We've never had a good back line, Hugh. We've never had a good back line. The two areas of problems going back to Gordon's track is day is our inability to defend

18:34set pieces. We've never had that ability in the back line and we've also had a problem scoring goals. And if you'd go back to the teams that were Scottish teams which were really good, we always had both. You know, there was a different generation of players, but you know, there was great strikers just couldn't you get a pool, is never mind getting into the team, great set in a half, it's not going to be a big loss. How does Pungy let Stephen Melchard up? Does he go and grab the opportunity and make the most of it? I think he's possibly somebody that can manage to get a ball. I think he's, I think he'll appeal to the manager because the manager, you know, I come from a tradition of Scottish set of halves that they just headed the ball and kicked away their face. Yeah, same badly. And he'll be looking at Welsh and interesting binks as well from another link, you know, can he play? Maybe even look Graham will emerge. Well, look Graham's absolutely fascinating because it doesn't seem that long ago I was watching him at Den's part playing for what would be, I think it was under 19's, whether

19:38it be up at Den's part. And to die test of watching him was that he just looked better than anybody else in the part. You know that way where it's a primary seven guy playing, we're playing U of 5's and he just didn't look that way physically, he's physically sharp, looked at way, it was never, you know, that we never flustered. Yeah. And you were looking at him and saying, I actually talked to a couple of guys from the local people, the courier that we were in and I said, is that him? And he says, yeah, that is him. This is not an outlier performance. This is what he does. Yeah, I don't believe we don't have. You know, everybody was worrying, oh, where are the players? I don't believe we have the players. I think the real test here will be how he asks them to go about their business. Can he do a high press? Is he going to be a passing one from the back end? Are the players going to be asked to be brave?

20:40Does he have that width where when we are on the front foot, we've got the ability to get it wide and then try and get service into the box? These are all the unknowns at the moment in his style. But one thing that I think is absolute key to it all is, if you're going to build an international side of note, you still have to retain that element of, can we be very difficult to score against? Look, we've got to be brave on the ball. It's fortunate in that it's a breath of fresh air, regardless already, because he's a different face. In that monitor and that kind of, whether you're, again, you dip your car up to Steve Clark, but that here is gone now. We've got a new one. The nation's league is really like in a challenge cup of international football, right? So you can cut his teeth in that and he's getting it. Three weeks is a long time, but it's due to, say, get to know your players. I hope it goes with new players quickly, because these new players can be part of his new dawn rather than try to just give bits and bobs here and there.

21:41But evolutions required quickly. Do it then. Yeah, because you also get a good midfield that can give them that stability. Worthless waiting gold is absolutely got his best players in the middle of the park. You get a foundation, you have a good side, you're right. I just hope he doesn't try and turn us out to a whole city. I hope he turns us into something more than that. Yeah, I'm all for anybody who's hot, who's scoring goals, who can come in here and do the business, whether it's an Olympic Burney or, you know, a James Wilson, a Kiran Bout. I don't care just as long as, as long as the system that he plays gives him the service, because if you're starved up there, you're then suddenly asking a player to do things that are not. That's so difficult. And I think modelling Burney's comes in there because there'll be the impression he can get us up the park and it'll also be the fact that he and I are he's guarding. I mean, a prediction. Yeah. And it's not an Olympic Burney bashing episode here, right? And in summer, that on it, Burney's going to enjoy the next three weeks, will be his last.

22:42Because I think once the manager understands, he's actually what he's got to bring to the table. He will be shipped in and shipped back out again. That's what I think. Well, that to me is an Olympic Burney bashing. I don't really want to turn it into that, but because quite simply, I think he uses everything as disposal. Just everything. And if it fits into his system, then all well and good. I think that's a curiosity, if you look at the games, I mean, what should we be expecting from those four games? How many points? Oh, I see. You would know of the strengths of them, I admittedly, but would you be hoping that he can get the two homelands and sneak in a way one? I don't think he beats Switzerland. I think Switzerland is one of the great, underrated sides of the world. No, there were two Swiss women, and all they do is get to the knockout stages of big tournaments. They always get quarterfinals, a first knockout, and I would take a point against Switzerland and click my heels down, you can head road. A really good one. One of the other things that the lands well for him is everybody that he's brought in,

23:44the new guys especially, are going to redouble and bust a gut for him. Because you want to go and deliver for him quickly, because it's a mention. That's a powerful thing. And I think that'll get us more points than we would have got. Listen, think of it. I don't see a huge haul. I see Slub, I see very much in the re-games that are always difficult for us. But I think Switzerland will be a good test of where we're at, because I think they're at a fine side. If we do get a huge haul, then I think basically what we do is we're getting to press confidence. Listen, Sebastian, you don't really need to know Flora Scotland. Just let's charge on. You know, we're going to win this. I just get your big go and blow on what will go. I think the midfield's going to be interesting as well, just before we leave this subject because of the midfield has always been very strong, but it's been strong and a very reactive way in that we're powerful there and we haven't been immensely creative there or the last where the goals come. We've not really had an number 10 there as such.

24:47We're trying to play big to harmony there, obviously. He's not available. But I think the crucial guy for Pong and Noli will be Billy Goma. I think he will set the metronongo in for the whole team. There's no player I wish better than Billy because he said he's trials. Can I suggest to you that I think the other thing that really will be and I hope they imagine, I hope they come to the fore. I think I've mentioned you that. The real strength is let's build your side around a really good solid three that you can pick in the middle. But for me, apart from obviously hoping that we can bolt the back door, I think if we have a fit Ben and Gandhok and a push-make-pick emerging, I think that's a good idea. I think we've got something on the flanks that we haven't had for a long time. From the point we need guys like Lenin Miller, Josh McPake, who's coming of age at the right time. This could be an exciting moment for the Scottish national team. If we've got a manager prepared to go with that, I mean you're talking about two white players

25:48in Gandhok, Josh McPake have got so much talent to offer to bring a different dimension. A different style at Scotland. As a manager, bold enough to go with that. We'll see. The Pake-Mick Pake thing is absolutely fascinating, Peter. Yeah, I like him. Well, but he's fascinating because I've watched him for a year and it's one of these great things about resilience. Keeping going on all the way, on the low and down the leagues, tease out. He'll never make it. My guy like, oh yeah, he gets like, well, he's got to see Johnston. Maybe, maybe. I suddenly pan football. It's a team I have off to him because there's obviously not just a lot of physical hard work in there, but he must have played some kind of story. There's a lot more in that story than the MCI. A lot more. He played about under 21's. It's got a game we could tell you more about that than I can, but there's other things going on there. But some things with footballs, the penages drops. Because you know the alternatives is, is, is, is, is a ball of luck.

26:49Well, Gary said, you're going to have to go and become a normal person. That's how he pitched it. It's a terrifying prospect for any player. Especially one with the abundance of ability. It's something that very few players can do. Because inside the next cycle. It's got trick as well. By the way, you don't have to eat his natural thought is, I'll let you be. I'll let you go by you. It is becoming a diner. Yeah, let's hope that that note of positivity that we've suggested there for Scotland materialises in the games. Only time will tell. Just talking before we obviously give you details of the 10, 6 is coming up because obviously they've got to try and occupy people who can't go to international matches. So we'll discuss that as well. But just at the tail end of the domestic fixtures, they're great, great week for Rangers. Big turtle round for Derek McKinnis. Massive semi-finals of the Premier Sports Cup. And then a double whammy of celebration because followed up the knocking Celtic out of the cup with a league win which was one nail going on three or four queue.

27:54Have you been impressed by what he's produced? I have. I've been slightly surprised as well. I think the way that's turned around has been very dramatic. And I think the perception in Scotland is obviously formed by, you know, games against Rangers, games against Celtic is a, that's what forms of perception. And they've been more than worthy winners and two occasions. I think the interesting thing about it was there was a lot of outage, shouting and balling and gnashing of teeth about Rangers recruitment. There was a lot of gnashing of teeth about Rangers quality. But I watched the game very closely on Sunday and there was some outstanding performances for Rangers in that cauldron. I think McCann you already looks as if they're going to make them money. I think a nail who was absolutely slaughtered when he came in is looking very much a player.

28:55And a dairy who is also slaughtered when he came in looks a player as well. And has his own limited sense. He's not going to be a... Well, he's not applying to science. He's still a whole thing. This is purely a den of mechanics, but he did it at heart, so it does at most points. It goes and makes you feel better. He's not a great side. They're OK. The dairy is not a world better. He's OK. And he did very well because he's worked really well. The other mechanics has got boys believing in themselves again, making themselves feel better. It's a fundamental managerial job. Selfie you haven't managed to do that, they've gone the opposite way. Have you seen somebody go and do that? The collective is there for them. The other mechanics has done what the other mechanics does. Yeah, but I don't want to oversimplify here by saying the other mechanics does. There it begins, it does. What he has managed to do, which is an art and itself of any manager, Gordon, is... He's managed to say to the board, listen, this is the type of side I want to build. These are the type of players I want. Can you go and get them?

29:56When it was a bit rocky at the start, he said, listen. And press conferences, he was saying, we still need players. I've said to the board, we still need players. We need these wide players to give us the options. So he emphasized that at a period where it didn't go according to plan in Europe and there was a wee bit of flat coming his way, but he maintained, listen. As well as time, as well as pre-season, as well as people with a clean slate, as well as new players coming in, and as well as the players that I wanted that I've said to the board I need on the flanks. Suddenly, all of these little bits of the jigsaw have materialized and over and above that, then you get the direct mechanism element, which is, can you improve your work rate and give me everything you've got? And can you play in this clear system that I want to play? And you saw the system again, it's a simple system. They've also benefited from the fact that the face-to-sell team that are found in a home in the space of a week. But that aside, don't diminish the fact that direct mechanism is shown

31:01exactly what it's about. It simplifies the coaching system, it makes you feel better. In plates players accountable, get Sam a, you're now seeing a different player. You're seeing a guy with an energy and an enthusiasm and a belief, which was absent for most of last. If you can identify Rangers how much better they've been in the last week and a half as Gisama, because it looks accountable for everything he's doing his work in the house. Well, I would add to that to you because in the first couple of weeks when we were on the programme, everybody was talking about, you know, there's no real creativity. And suddenly he had Minsu Kim. And Minsu Kim came in and joined that back middle to front and gave him the opportunity. He emerged with the goal from Minsu Kim's effort, which was pushed out to Nadeini. So, suddenly those players that he was crying out for have given him the creativity, have given him the width, have given him the strength and the back three. And then, of course, suddenly Nadeini, like the rest of them,

32:03who've all got that team spirit that you were talking about, Gordon, have all emerged and all clicked. It's amazing how they quickly changes. There's that, you know, when you said you came in for a little bit of like, there was more than that, you know, as people can wash their hands and then they can have some appointment. It's crazy to think so. And that's not, you know, that the exit from Jurek was rich. You know, absolutely rich. We as, you know, journalists, I do think some pundits need to take a long-harm looking as well. And certainly, X-Footballers should realize that every manager at every level deserves that time to formulate. Yeah, I think that was the time. I think most of us thought like, like, give them some kind of certain, I mean, because you don't get time from that outside noise, it just continues. What you've got to do, and I think what we're doing because it's very real, is to stay back for them, or you can see a list, and I'm pretty confident in what I can do here.

33:07You know, I'm confident once we get people in and I think it's been a very strong management thing. I think there's been bits of, as it happens in football, bits of fortune. I think the pain rise coming in, which was a crisis sign. It's been excellent. Raskin not going when he wanted to go, he's eager, wanted to go. I'm sure the club wanted him go for money as well. Not only is Raskin not going, but for the moment anyway, seems to have bought in for at least to Christmas. So there's been good stuff about the edges. To touch and wait a second, they're 100%. I remember when they get in, I was there the night they get knocked out. The Europa League and the Jamalek manager was in talk, where he was there, it was outside the press room. There's a glass door you can look through. And they marked stop and down my hands on his pockets, and I couldn't take my eyes off this glass door to see Derek.

34:07When just it being so bad that I was wondering how much pressure is he on them? What is he thinking? What is he going to come in and say? How bad was it? How does he come in and say it? Their fans are going to go mental. Which in a storm can pose himself and come in and speak so well, taking the ownership of it. And he's getting the reward for that. A lot of managers would have flapped. Somebody to run for the house, it was down bad. That's good management. He's also gained that huge experience just as why eventually gets a job. Just very curious, any two, as you look at where they're at, two points behind sale. I thought Eidjaran has ever offered that wise old head to say, listen, an O'Trophie's handed out in September. They need to be consistent. They need to realize that the minimum requirement is winning the league. But when you look at a semi-final on the horizon against Aberdeen, which is by no means a given, but suddenly coming up, you've got Kamarna, Dundee, St. Johnston,

35:08before they have a trip to Tine Castle. So I think three of those games could suddenly not only benefit Rangers, but crank it up elsewhere. Yeah, but it can all change so quickly, can't it? We're talking about the last week being stunning for Rangers, which it was, but some men at home, if it's all left some butts and maybe, but if they don't, they don't score in the last seconds against some men, where root one goal, the pressure piles on. And you flip it the other way. I mean, there was all the, you know, beginning of the season, the first Celtic, you know, going that one and running, everybody say, no, just shot up shot. You know, peeing the bookies out now, they're going to win it. It can change. I think what needs to change is that, Rangers, if you say the challenges to Rangers, concern about Rangers, can you beat the low walk?

36:09Obviously, but the new guys coming in, Kim, and I think a revitalised gassam, you say, well, they'd be hopeful there. We'll sell to you what you say, well, Mike, how can they re-calibrate and quickly because it, it wasn't just the performances against Rangers or against Lask. I think the first game against Lask, at home, which there was three, nothing, was for me, I was there that night, and that was the first trumpet call from me, because I thought, Lask could give a least of come away with some from that game, and it could sell to you a very open day. So what's the sell to you? I've got to do it on the flip side, is address problems, certainly, and then feel very, very quickly. Yeah, I think the good thing for Rangers point of view is the fact that they've got three solid central defenders who look as if they are going to give Derek that side is difficult to beat. And obviously, with the success in a double harmony against Celtic, suddenly, to finish everybody wants to look at Celtic as if, you know,

37:14I didn't want to take away from what I thought in previous programs, what Rangers are achieved, because sometimes I think you can follow the madness of the story, but I think the positive was Rangers. The flip side of it all for Celtic is suddenly, you know, this morning you've got a realization that they've posted losses, which is, you know, an indication of what's happened over, you know, the last year, you know, and the performances in Europe. And they've announced a loss after tax of 4.8 million. That's 12 months on from making just under 34 million. So the figures in revenue down 22.7% over and above that, you have a situation where a lot of fans have been in revolt, not buying merchandise. The loss of the revenue from the Champions League has been catastrophic over the last two years. The one thing that they haven't released in the

38:14figures, which will obviously become evident over the course of the next few weeks. And I think everybody knows is the fact that they've sold players and made a profit. Yeah, but listen, Celtic are in a situation where they're reaping what they sow. You have, speculate to accumulate, to agree, the lack of investment in proper quality, they disregard that they hold their own fan base for. There's now a community bear on them, the boycott in the merchandise. The apathy around the club, that lack of ambition, he'd go and lift the club to a new level. What did they expect to have? The going of the days for your to my place straight, I mean, that guaranteed Champions League sport and taking away from them is economically disastrous because they've not understood that to bridge that gap and get that guarantee requires investment to a degree that they're not

39:15prepared to pay. That's an exact science, that's why they are. I noticed even on Twitter today, or X, David Low highlighting the fact that if anything, I mean, apart from the fact that the border well paid and are looked upon as a team who are more interested in the ambition of making profit than the ambition of taking the club, where the fans want it to go. He's analysed their mid-design position, which is very, very generous in his return for his investment in Celtic Football Club. So that again adds fuel to the fire with Celtic fans looking at it and saying, there's a real, I'm not saying character assassination, but certainly a board under real scrutiny, almost forensic in the analysis of them now because they're so angry with them. Absolutely, the demand things very interesting because the demand things all predicated on success, he has an initial investment, it's now worth much, much more, but it's caused much, much, much,

40:20much more, because of the way the club is growing. And then you know, they're talking about high end, it would take 400 million to buy Celtic. So obviously, his share holding increases with that. The figures are very simple, there'll be pages and pages of the figures, but the figures can be really diluted down. Champions League, 30 million profit, no Champions League, minus 4 million, it's as simple as that. The Champions League is the game changer completely for clubs outside the big five links. And for many clubs inside the big five links, but certainly for clubs outside the big five leagues, you don't have huge broadcasts and deals, the Champions League is... Is this a sign that thinks to come? Because... I think it's a huge sign that it could become a situation where both the old firm, it's too dear for them, a environment that just can't afford to claim. Well, I think the big problem is it's going to go with the differing, you know, the co-efficient,

41:20et cetera, et cetera, to comment. I think there's certainly an element within Celtic of saying, because it can be the only possible explanation for this money in a bank that they're going to say, listen, the days of us getting 30 million every so often for the Champions League might have sailed and we're a European... The opposite is not worth thinking of it, because then it actually spotlights the board and goes, taking for granted, the blasey approach. That's negligence to a degree, which is at a different level. Yeah, but I think the Celtic fans now, and I understand when you're coming from, you're talking about it from a board who are there, who are in control, who have to make a decision where they are saying, you know what, we're a Europa League club now, whereas I think a lot of Celtic fans are saying, you know what, we don't want to listen to your strategy, we don't want you there, we want you removed, and we want a different board, new owners, and a different strategy. A different mindset. I think that's where they're at. Obligation as a boat is to allow fans to their age room. And this Celtic

42:25boat just refuses to do that. And the Celtic fans will not tolerate it. Youth kid me on it, they will absolutely revolve to a degree with them or seen before if they're trying to be pacified to be sitting here, European, favourable. But that's what that is. You're coming up here and I don't know how they handle this here. I can see another car crash, AGM coming up, because quite simply, how did they convince them that they are the light the way in the truth in this? They've gone, I think they're all, they talk about elasticity, it's been broken. You can't, the thing about it is, is it what the schism, you've got the schism now, you've got, I don't, I don't think it's printable, and people talking about now, oh now, you know, you've heard these rumors about, yeah, we can buy them out, etc, etc. I just think that's nonsense. I mean, first of all, not only does he not need to sell because he's a billionaire,

43:26I would say without knowing how he handles himself, it doesn't want to sell and he will never be forced to sell. The idea that any kind of revolt would force him out of the door, I think it's not. You know what I'm using these words, it's difficult to use the right word. What does a revolt sell to look like? What is a strategy to change the board? And it falls down, I've had conversations with many Celtic fans over this, I always say, well the board has to go out and I say, right, okay, if I find, I want to go out with Scarlett Hansen, how am I going to go about that? How are you going to go about getting the board out? What is your plan? Well, many people have come up with the plan, like the clever people, you know, Celtic, limited, et cetera, et cetera. It's... Name me any group of football fans at any club that are getting a degree, a lot of them go militant to a degree, right? How does that... How does that look like? I don't think it's very difficult, I'll take your point, you know, I think it's very

44:26difficult. It's easier to remove a 1993, 94 Celtic board because they were weak. I mean, I'm never been financial trouble. This one is difficult because he is a billionaire who quite simply is saying, I mean, take a fly into yourself. We'll do it my way. I think there is always a situation where you can never say never. There's a slim percentage who could look at it if this continues to the point where the fans just are not having it. Once that revolt kicks in, one of the things that I don't like about this whole situation and because I've had a chat with some people in the background is, I don't like the fact that any board member is suddenly suffering so much abuse. Their family suffers abuse. The security and their safety is under close scrutiny. I think that's wrong. And I think we've got to be very, very careful in the way some Celtic fans go about their business. So I think that's the first thing, but the second part of it is, I don't think there's any way back for this board. I think this board is

45:30always on a knife edge now because of the strategy that they've maintained consistently and they're not going to budge on it. And that in itself has really broken the camels back with the fans. They are not into it in any capacity now. I think the members get another car crash coming and I don't know how they explain their way out of it. You know, for whatever they say now, people, it's falling on deaf ears. But what does it matter to them? This is the point. That's the point. I mean, you know, when people say, I agree with you, the casem is so wild. I don't think that is a way back as well. I agree to all of them. But what does it mean in the board? You know, why should they say, well, they will be certainly unsaying. This is what we've got. This has got to bite and the shouting and ball and outside. I think I clapped that in a status quo. But the casem was resolved. I don't have that answer, but I know one thing, you the next few weeks and the next few months is going to be and the next few years is going to be

46:37painful for Celtic as this slide continues. The other thing about it as well, just to finish, is the decision right now, which seems to be that Martin and Neil is staying the board to his backdom and he seems to be listening to change with the time this programme finishes as it did last week with David Gray. But it seems to be that he's going to be in there trying to again paper over the cracks. I think he's in real danger now of, you know, suffering a lot of pain. If I highlighted the games that Rangers have got coming up, games that Celtic have got coming up are bringing nothing but pain. I can't raise up. Yeah, but I disjointed side who looked broken. If there's a duty occur for Martin and Neil who deserves the greatest duty occur in every way, they have a conversation with him and tell him, thank you, but this is not the movie that we thought we would be starting in this season. Already so early, there seems a vulnerability both in his energy. Is he that he'd be healthcare? Does he want this upon himself?

47:43If there's a family member that there's love and affection for him that we all have, general wordness here, enough. Has to stop. Well, top is later as close. How do you break it? You break it first of all by getting a management structure in place, which is sustainable, and progressive, and looking forward. Yeah, you turn around and say that, you know, this is a board to say, I'm sorry Martin, this is not the movie. We thought it was going to be this season, you know, for Martin and every other Celtic family say, well, yeah, it's not that movie because you created it, you're the problem. But they're not going to say that anyway. No, no, absolutely not. Because they're good. There's no going to be any impetus. Please be frank about this. The impetus to change a manager would have to be at least sanctioned, the bad would think actually motivated and driven by Deer McDesmond. Yes. I can see no occasion with Deer McDesmond goes to Martin and says, you know, because he just wouldn't, I mean, he just wouldn't do that. It's a deal like Stadiot, you know. What needs to?

48:47Any change in that managerial situation will have to come from the annual camp. It's nonsense. I thought that's a nonsense call situation. I'm just saying what I believe. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just saying this is what I believe. Yeah. Is the levers that we'd have to engage, we'd have to come from Martin, we'd have to go to to Derman, say, listen, I'm bloody blood under him, say, well, fine, buddy, but I don't see Derman phone and not. You've got to remember, you know, these people, particularly Derman, Derman will have seen Derman Desmond or seen big heavy times in business. And he's used to weather and storms and crisis. But he's also used to dealing with people and paying off his debts and what is it? And you've got to look at what Derman, apart from what he thought about Martin with a long-term relationship with what Martin did, not 10 years ago, not 20 to 3, six months ago, not even six months ago. In me, you know, what he did in me for him,

49:53what he did in the winter for him. So Derman, Derman, Desmond will be giving Martin every opportunity to do whatever with him, he's in the once. Let's say this, we'll talk about balance sheets. If the situation itself took the moment as Martin, he was lost to walk away from that contract, Derman's got a responsibility to satisfy that contract, he's ermed it all. I don't think that would be a problem. Sure, Maloney's a third highest-paid coach in the country. Outside Derman can assume Maloney is any managerial coach role as a third highest-paid. They have got issues, they've got three weeks to deal with it, the clock's ticking, they've got to make big decisions and it takes big people to make these decisions. Got to be vocal, they've got to let it self-defiance know, putting that statement out about great for Martin, he own how great he's been on that. Doesn't address the problem that all the self-defiance knows there. Yeah, the border only there is a PR exercise because basically Derman calls the shot,

50:54he rolls everything at the club and he'll decide and I have to take slides show on that, I think it starts to really go pear-shaped, I think he will make that call. Whether he tries to put it across as if Martin said it or not is another angle on it, but nevertheless. Take one thing for sure, we know Martin, we don't know, he's not going to wait for that contract, he's either suggested to him, nudged or encouraged or paid up, we know he's not going to wait for that contract and that's just a truth of it. Okay, last word to party unusual, but we'll give him it. Anyway, don't forget that the 10-6 is coming up, I had a chat with a lot of the players who are playing in it, it's not the squads of today because that would take a hell of a lot of insurance, it's players who've played for clubs before, so you get killing shared in turning out, I said Johnson, Ed McGeedy for Celtic, Barric Ferguson's managing the ranger side, although I'm sure he'd be itching to play and you've got Hugh Murray, I said

51:54Johnson, Essent Miran, a big apartment, you've also got more than a few good players that are going to be turning out, Scott Allen's going to be the manager of Hibbs, more than a few players that a lot of families will love to go and cheer on, it's going to be great. Thurton 4th of October, if you get a chance, it's very modest. It's like the next PLZ every union, high school reunion. Yes, absolutely. Every, every, every, sitting this couch, there'll be the 10-6's. Yeah, absolutely, it's a good shout actually. Is Mingman, what? Is Mingman is good golf that day or what? Man is good two gigs, which is why he's not playing in the 10-6's. But nevertheless, there will be a lot of people here, Thurton 4th of October, we'll put the link in sbfl10 and 6s.co.uk is exactly where you need to go to get your tickets for it. There's going to be a Darby match in every session. So you're going to get Darby's of Dundee, you'll get the Emerda Darby, you'll get the Glasgow Darby as well. There's all sorts of really mouthwatering games,

52:57bit of tension in there, chance to win the trophy. It was nice to see Jerry Britton there, who was the last winner of it in 1993 for Partick Fistle, and Jerry will be representing Street Soaker. At the event, and basically if you get any old kit, bring it along, give it to the guys at Street Soaker. They will obviously clean it up and sell it on and get some people who have fallen out of society and need a wee help to get back into jobs. Yeah, well, funnily, I've got a 10-6's story. 1993 was the last time it was done. Yeah. I've done the 80's, but then it's weird to take, but it was proper. 10-6's, it wasn't legends. We were hamper boys, it was the SECC. Yeah. Brawian quality, Paul at the big glass, was getting the scalp to off it and all that, great day out. Brawian fun. Well, I've had a look at the pitch. I didn't like it. I didn't like it. I'm not sure, but I didn't like it. The pitch is in great condition because it's a new one. They'll be able to take a stud, it's got a better foundation below it as well, which would

53:57be great for the footballers. And I've had a look at the pitch that's going to be put down on that ice rink and boy is it big. There's a few people who are going to be tested for their stamina. Get along if you can. 10-6's. Well worth, it's going to be great. Thurton 4th of October. Hope you've enjoyed the journals. Today we're with a slight technical issue with the cameras, but nevertheless, we still able to bring you the program. And if you're on the podcast, cameras will not bother you in any capacity. You'll be able to hear parts of these dulcet tones and shoot me Donald Desabar from Hugh, Gordon and myself Peter Martin. Thank you for listening and thank you for watching.