2959: The Secrets for Training in a Calorie Deficit (Most People Get This Completely Wrong)

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1:02The Ocean connects us. Visit monoraybeacorium.org slash connects. If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind up, mind up with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded health fitness and entertainment podcast in history approaching over half a billion downloads. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode, we helped coach live callers. People called in, we helped them out with their health and fitness. But this was after an intro. So today's intro is 57 minutes long. Now in the intro, we talk about fat loss, a muscle gain, fitness. We talk about current events, studies, family life. It's always fun. Look, if you want to be on an episode like this, if you want us to coach you live on air, send in your question to mplivecaller.com. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Parachute. This is a gummy that you eat that has Parasanthine in it. So what's Parasanthine? This is one of the chemicals that caffeine gets converted into.

2:05It's the reason why caffeine gives you energy. But it's not why caffeine gives you the jitters and makes you feel like crap. That's some of the other stuff that caffeine gets turned into. So if you want the energy from caffeine without the jitters, without the edginess, without the gut problems, try Parachute. It feels great. Go to parachute.com. This P-A-R-A-C-H-E-W.com slash Mind Pump. Use the code Mind Pump, get 20% off your first order. This episode is also brought to my Caldera Lab. Today we talked about their eye serum. 70 to 80% of people in their clinical trial showed improvements in under eye puffiness and dark circles. When they use their eye serum, eye cream. Go try it out. Go to calderalab.com slash Mind Pump. Use the code Mind Pump, get 20% off your first order. We also have a brand new workout program. Maps, abs and butt. So this trains your whole body. But the emphasis is on your abs and your butt. This program's 40% off right now.

3:05Plus we will throw in a free Maps program, Muscle Mommy 15 or Muscle Mommy. Just go to mapsabzambut.com, use the code launch for the discount and the free programs. All right, real quick. If you love us, like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs or training gear over at Mind Pump Store.com. I'm talking right now, hit pause, head on over to Mind Pump Store.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. You're in the calorie deficit. You're trying to burn body fat. That's the goal. What about your training? Should that change with that like? We're going to talk about the secrets for training when you're in the calorie deficit. Look, this will help you out a lot. Here we go. This is obviously top of mind for you and I. It is. It is. There are things to consider when you're working out in a deficit because it's different. It feels different. There's different things to consider. I think going into it without any awareness can set you up for some failure. Should I be experiencing this?

4:05What does this feel like? Also going into it, understanding the possible roadblocks or hurdles or mental struggles. There's a lot of those. Anytime you change something in your diet or workout. If you're not aware of it, this is a coach. As a coach or a trainer, I would prepare my clients ahead of time and forecast so when they ran into things, it wasn't this shock and I wasn't having to play catch up or put out fires. They knew it because it's like, oh yeah, he told me I would feel this. We have to consider this. We talk a lot about the stress bucket. We talk about personal life stuff. We talk about intensity, volume, all these different work stuff that you got going on, all these count in your stress bucket. When it overspills, it's really difficult for the body to do what you want it to do, whether that be building muscle or burning body fat. You just have to consider that, and I don't think we talk about it because we talk about it. It's necessary in order to lose body fat to be in a caloric deficit. But a caloric deficit is another stress.

5:06That's right. When you're in a caloric, think of that stress bucket. You shrink the bucket. You shrink the bucket. That's just because the nature of a deficit literally means this. I'm not eating enough to sustain myself. My body is tapping into stored energy, hopefully body fat, to sustain myself. That bucket is now smaller. That's a really, really good way to explain that analogy. Love that. Here's the first one. I'll tell you. I learned a long time ago. I'll tell a story. It's all connected. I remember years ago, first of all, being a deficit for me, a controlled deficit was never something that I ever really try to do consistently. For a long time. Mainly because I started working out because I thought it was skinny. I want to get bigger. Why would I ever want to get smaller? Why would I even try that? That's right. And better at it now, but they just ended up playing it up. But eventually I did really try to be a more dedicated deficit. And there's lots of psychological stuff around that for someone like me. I feel small on my shirt, like what's going on.

6:08And one of them was just feeling weaker in the gym. And when you're in a deficit, if you're training at a high level, and you've been doing it for a while, you can't expect yourself to get stronger. And you especially, sometimes you can't expect to even maintain some strength. But I'll never forget I was having these workouts. And at this time, I was trying to get really good at pull-ups. And so my pull-ups were getting better. And I was like, dude, I'm getting, and I was telling one of my friends, because I had been in a deficit at this point for maybe eight weeks, which was like the longest I ever was at that point. And I was getting better at pull-ups. And I was telling my friend like, dude, I'm doing something crazy. I said, I don't understand how I'm getting stronger. And he goes, you're lighter. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Pull-ups. Push-ups. Yes. I mean, that really is a good strategy to kind of lean into that, as you're reducing calories and losing weight. Massive weight lifts are great. Massive strategy. Massive strategy. Because, again, we always talk about the psychological component of all this game totally. Totally. And I always got weaker.

7:08I don't know. I mean, maybe other people have had better experiences. But any major cut I went on. You can expect to get weaker. Yeah. And obviously, my goal is to not get a lot. I don't know, way weaker. That's right. But I was very realistic that I was going to see. Because I'm coming off of a bulk and peak intensity, trying volume. All the things. And so, yeah, going the opposite direction, it's pretty natural to see a decrease in some weight. Now, I don't want to see a massive one, because that normally tells me I'm probably stressing the body too much or cutting back too much. Yeah. But it's pretty normal to see some of that. And so, one of the cycle, and that can be discouraging. I don't care even if you understand the science and you know what's happening. Nobody wants to see their weight. Yeah, it can be discouraging. So, I love to do movements. Either this is a time when I love to change up movements completely, like all said. Because then you don't have a baseline. That's right. So, like, I haven't done Turkish kid ups in a long time. So, like, and here I am in a cut. It's a great time for me. Like, you know what? I'm going to start reintroducing Turkish kids. Why?

8:08Because I have to start back at zero anyways. And I actually might see myself get a little stronger. Because the skill gets better. Great point. So, it's like, that psychological, like, oh, I'm actually getting stronger. I was like, no, you had it. You haven't done it in a year. And you're just re-adapting to that movement that you used to be that strong. And so, and pull ups are a great example of that. So, I think body weight stuff, new movements, great strategies when you're in deficit for the psychological reason. 100%. So, and now someone listening is like, well, I got stronger in a deficit. This will happen when you're a beginner, maybe the first year training. But if you've been training for a while and you're hitting numbers and, you know, you're like the strongest you've ever been, you can expect the top weight to go down and it lifts like dead lifts and squats and presses. But body weight exercises in a deficit tend to get better because you're lighter. Pull ups and dips and sit ups and pistol squats. They tend to get better. And so, what it does, it gives me that psychological fuel I need. Like, oh, here I am. I'm doing this lift. I'm better at this lift, even though I'm in a deficit.

9:09And that's encouraging. And I'll tell you something. Like, being encouraged when you're going in a particular direction with your diet is very important for consistency. It really is. And so, for me, body weight lifts. This is a great hack. Here's another one. Inticipate what it's going to feel like to train in a deficit or to feel depleted. It feels different, everybody. When you're well fed, you go into a workout and you're like, I could tackle everything. I feel like I could run through the barbell. It's not a problem. When I'm in a deficit, now this is a proper deficit. Not like too much, right? Dragging myself. But when I'm in a deficit, it just feels different. It's just, when I'm working out, I don't have the same, er, the same, the same, growing, the same, you know, strength, the same intensity. And so, I know this. I have to prepare myself to go into my workout to know this is going to feel different than when I'm at 4,000 calories. My workouts feel very different than when I'm at 2,800 calories. It's going to feel very different. Yeah, the intentions totally different. It's totally different. I had it this morning. This morning, I was working out my garage with my wife and I'm training.

10:09And the familiar feeling of training on low calories is coming back. And I'm like, I remember what this feels like. I'm a little more fatigued. It sucks. It sucks. It's demoralizing. You're glycogen stores are depleted. So your muscle bellies aren't getting full like they used to. You're probably lower on carbohydrates and calories. And so, you're weaker, you're tired, you're tired. It's a very, it can be very defeating and discouraging. And probably a big reason why a lot of people bail on it. This is also not to hijack this intro or tip. But this reminds me of why I used to like carb cycling so much. Yeah. Was because every third or fourth day, I would load, refeed or push carbs way up from the previous really low three to four days. And it would remind me of that good workout thing going like, okay, I'm not really weaker. So even though again, I know all that. It can still get in your head when your weeks and weeks of this consistent when you're trying to lose a lot of body fat

11:10and you're staying in this deficit for a long time. So to have these refeed days, again, more great bodybuilder wisdom that we probably muddied up with the way that we talked about it and explain the science behind it. I'll just purely go from the psychological part. I remember that defeated feeling and feeling depleted, flat, low energy, all of the stuff. But then I knew in two more days, I get it to load up. And then I would load up and then it would feel like the most amazing workout I've had in that. It would just remind me of like, okay, and then I'd have to go back down again and go like, it's okay. I'm going to feel this way. So much of quote unquote bodybuilding science or bro science is based off of psychology that they tried to explain away with science. But here's what happens with what you're saying. So carbohydrates are an easy macro nutrient to lower because they're not essential. So you're not risking as much as when you cut fat and definitely protein. Like you cut fat too low, your body can't function. You could literally eat 10,000 calories a day. But if your fat was too low, your body would starve. So it's essential.

12:10Carbs aren't essential. So you could play with them. But here's what happens. If you cut your carbs, you don't get good pumps in the gym. Your energy goes down. And so that refeed is literally just so I can feel good again. And I look forward to it. And that's that psychological piece. But the other psychological piece is this. Knowing I'm going to feel more depleted in my workouts, anticipating it, expecting it. It really, and then getting used to that feeling. There's there's head knowledge and then there's heart knowledge. Right. There's knowing up here, which is fine. But then there's the knowing of the feeling. And because I've done this before, when I feel depleted like this morning, I'm working out. And I can tell I'm depleted. It's not crushing me. So I'm like, oh, yeah, I know what this feeling is like. I've been here before. It means I'm getting leaner. It means I'm in a deficit. Here's the next one. Now all things being equal, low wraps tend to work better in a deficit. And here's why it's lower volume. Yeah. It's not because it's heavy. It's not for this crazy muscle sparing of fat. The fatigue without energy is extra crushing.

13:10Yeah. Because you're not giving yourself that added bit of energy to really get through sort of more of the higher wrap. And it's a little closer towards the endurance side of the fence. And so, you know, it could be pretty demoralizing when you're not like full of energy. Yeah, like five sets of four reps on a deadlift or a squat or a press. Don't require nearly as much energy as five sets of 15 reps of those exercises. Plus the 15 reps can, that's a lot of volume. People forget that it's not just sets that play a role in volume. It's also reps that play a role in volume and weight. But reps play more of a role. A set of 20 reps of a barbell squat almost to failure will fatigue you and hammer you way more than a set of five reps at a similar intensity. Yeah. It just does. And so low reps, they stress the body less. They don't feel like dying as much. And they tend to be more appropriate. All things being great for preserving muscle as well.

14:10So, you know, that's a huge, you know, something to consider while you're going through cut. It's like the biggest thing on your mind should be like, how can I preserve muscle? How can I keep stimulating that strength signal? And to do that with that, like the high volume and more of the fatigue side is, you know, the low reps make a lot of sense. Listen, at this point of the training cycle, if we are in a deficit to get lean and lose body fat, the goal is no longer to build muscle. It is to keep the muscle I built in the calorie, the calorie surface. And we've talked about the studies in what it shows on what you need to do in order to maintain muscle that you already built. It is a significantly lower amount of volume than what it took to build. That's right. So, there's like ranges on the different studies, but it's less than half. Nobody goes to half. I don't know anybody that is in a training rhythm. Nobody cuts their volume when they're in a deficit period. No, let alone go now to half. Exactly. And yet, you can go less than half. I mean, so my rule is get in there, touch the weights, get out at this point, let the diet do the work.

15:15And understand that I'm working with a smaller stress bucket. And the longer I stay in there, the more repetitions I do, the more volume and intensity I push. In this deficit, the more likely I am to over spill that stress bucket. The number one problem with people's training when they're in a deficit is they burn themselves out. That's the number one problem. Because here's the thought process, right? I'm trying to lose body fat, so I'm cutting my calories. So I kind of burn more calories on my workout. I'm going to push it even harder. But you're literally setting yourself up for failure. The stress bucket's smaller because of the lower calories. You're going to go train even harder, which is going to make it more difficult to recover from. And that's a muscle destroyer. That's a fantastic way to lose muscle. And again, referring to the data, Adam, like the thing that you want to manage the most is stress management. And sending a signal to maintain muscle doesn't require much. But the problem is, is we think, well, I got to keep muscle. I'm going to frantically train the heck out of myself to keep this muscle. But they forget that they're stressed bucket is smaller because they're in a deficit.

16:17Low wraps really does a good job. Maps, anabolic phase one is the most successful phase of any math program for me personally in a deficit. When I put myself in a deficit, if I train like that, I keep muscle, I feel good. I don't over train. When I start pushing the volume and my calories drop, I have to bump my calories. Although as I'm going to burn myself out, and I can feel my workouts, I can see it in the way I look. So low wraps tend to work better when you're in a deficit. All right, here's another one. And this is more of a, like, anticipate this. You're going to feel hungry at night. You just are. People are so afraid of the hunger signal. It's okay. And I get it. I get that we communicate in the space, like, you know, feed yourself, if you're hungry, and you shouldn't feel hungry. You know, our diet makes it such you never have a hunger again. Here's a supplement that'll make it so you're not hungry. Oh, GLP ones, that'll control your hunger, and they do pretty well. A pretty good job of doing that. But when you're in a deficit, you can expect to feel some hunger, and it typically hits at night. Typically, when you're not busy, you're at your, you're sitting around, you're eating your meals.

17:22And then it starts to hit. And what you typically did in the past, as you go reach for more food or snack or whatever, know that when you're in a deficit, especially if it's a substantial deficit, that at night, you're going to start to feel hungry and kind of make friends with it. Now, I'm not speaking to people who have dysfunctional eating patterns around restricting themselves. These are people that I'm like, no, no, you're way too comfortable being hungry. In fact, that's your best friend. But for the average person, you're going to feel some hunger at night. And I know this. I know when I'm in a deficit, at night, I'm thinking about food a little bit. But what I tell myself is like, oh, yeah, I'm in a deficit. My body's burning, my body's split to send that signal. Yeah, you're supposed to feel that a little bit. This is arguably the one of the hardest things I think of the cut is the evenings. Oh, yeah. At least personally. Personally, you know, this is where I wind down. Katrina and I will watch a TV series or something. Oh, it's so hard to grab a snack. Yeah, the habits, the cravings, the actual real hunger because you're been in a deficit for the last couple of weeks.

18:22Like it all sets in. The thing that works for me is the reframing. There's two things I lean on at this time. And this is getting very top of mind right now for me. One is I remind myself like that feeling. And I know that I've been in multiple days in a row of a deficit. Like, I'm laying on this couch watching a great show with my wife. And I am burning body fat. Like, what a cool thing. Like, I'm getting leaner by the minute, right? And I think about that. The other thing that it encourages for me, which is really good, is I have a hard time going to bed really early. But when I'm hungry, I'm so motivated to go to bed. The number one hack for me when I'm in a deficit and I'm starting to feel hunger is to go to bed. Go to bed. Like, the longer you stay up, the longer you can fight with. I'm telling Katrina to like, 8.30. I'm like, hey, let's go. Let's go. Which, by the way, I'm going to see. There's a double. There's two sides. Yeah, you get a full night sleep. You get a better sleep. You get a better sleep. Which you need with a smaller stress bucket. That's right. So it's like avoiding the sleep. That's right. And I lean into those two things. I lean into, hey, I'm leaning out.

19:22I'm relaxed in here. And two, man, I really want to go to bed earlier because I don't want to stay up for another two hours thinking about food. And oh, guess what? That makes me have better sleep, better recovery. Increases that stress bucket bigger. Like, this is the way to go. Yeah, there's, so I have another hack with that. So it's that. I totally do that. The other one is carbonated water. Carbonated water is sipping on that throughout the evening. Does help make a difference. And I've used this with clients as well. I've even had clients add a little salt and light to it. Yeah. And that too, if like somebody's kind of cutting out alcohol, it works really well with like the mineral water. It's totally a corona. Yeah, I think there's two things that are happening there because I do, I kick up, like I start drinking my element way more. I don't know. I normally have two now at this point. And I think there's, I also think that if you're doing this really clean and through whole foods, you actually are reducing sodium quite a bit. That's the last one. And there's a part that like that feels good. That's, yes, that's the last one was the sodium hack. So here's what, oftentimes, I had this happen with clients a couple times before we really figured this out. When you drop your calories, when you, especially if you're sticking to whole natural foods,

20:26which you should, if you drop your calories, otherwise you're eating processed foods and training a deficit. Good luck with that. So that's number two. Number three, if you cut your carbohydrates, which you probably did, even if you're not low carb, carbs are going to come down if calories come down, right? All of those things suck water out of your body. Sodium helps keep it in. Now why do you want more water in your body? Well, why would, because you feel like crap, you actually start to feel like crap. You start to get dizzy in your workouts and you think is it because my calories are too low. Sometimes it's a case, but sometimes you just need some sodium. Also, it helps with hunger. If you need more sodium, sometimes your body kicks up hunger. So this is, this is the sodium hack. So unless I, you're a body builder who's going to go on stage and needs to cut sodium, which none of, but I hope you're not listening to this and that's why you're listening to these tips, bump your sodium up when your, when your calories drop. It makes you feel a lot better. In fact, especially on low carb diets, you'll hear people talk about the keto flu or low carb flu, where they feel like terrible. It's because they need more sodium. Has nothing to do with the low carbs. You know, I think people underestimate, because they go, why salt all my food?

21:29But if you're eating all whole foods, it's not much. It is wild. How much you could salt whole foods compared to one thing packaged for the day. Oh gosh. The amount of sodium in one piece of anything packaged. Oh yeah. Or one fast food meal. Oh yeah. That's like 3000 milligrams. So yeah. So if you're eating all whole foods and seasoning it all up, you still end up being your way lower than probably, especially if you're coming from, because you keep that in mind also, right? What you've, your body is adapted to a processed food diet prior to this. Yep. That's a dramatic swing for a lot of people. And bumping the sodium higher than they would think with drinks like the, like, element, make a huge difference and helps out a lot. Totally. All right. I'm excited to talk about one of our new partners because they have a product that uses a compound that I've been reading about for a long time. So it's parachuse. So these, which I had all you guys try before we worked with them for a while. Yeah. So tell me what you're experiencing. I mean, we talked off there, but go and tell the audience what you're experiencing.

22:29Well, it's, well, what it reminds me of is all the benefits that you feel. From caffeine without the negatives, without the crash and out without the affecting sleep later in the evening. I thought it was interesting. Now, if I recall long before they started working with us, you found this through, how did you, you, so I was really introduced this. And I don't know if you took a pill form of it first or how you found experimental with it. So when you drink, when you take caffeine, about 80% of the caffeine gets converted to something called parazanthine. Okay. Parazanthine is the reason why caffeine gives you energy. It's what gives you that focus. It's what picks you up. It's the parazanthine. Okay. The other 20% for some people, it's even more, we have a liver enzyme that'll convert caffeine, by the way, which is why some people caffeine, there's so much more sensitive to caffeine. It has to do with this particular enzyme. But 20% or so of this caffeine will get converted to a couple other compounds, theobromine and theophiline.

23:30Both of which are what are responsible for the jitters, the edginess, the stomach issues. Some people have coffee or caffeine, they'll get diarrhea. Sometimes, yeah. It's the parazanthine that turns, that gives you that kind of energy, that clean energy. So, parachuse are these little, little, like, gum drop looking things. You eat them, which by the way, I like that they're like this, because drinking lots of energy drinks with lots of fluid, like they're not as convenient, something like this could pop in your mouth. Yeah. So, caffeine gives you the, and they've done, they've compared them, by the way, caffeine to parazanthine, better focus, better memory, recall, way less jitters, way less negative side effects. Also, the half life is a bit less than caffeine, and those two compounds, theobromine and theophiline, have a really long half life. So, when you drink caffeine at like 1 p.m., and you're like, oh, that's what I got cut off before noon. Right, right. So, you're like that, right? So, if you have it at 1 or 2, it affects my sleep. It affects your sleep. It's the theobromine and theophiline, which have like an 8 hour life.

24:30I don't have to try them, like, independent of each other. I've tried both together, and it was like a very similar effect, you know, after the caffeine, but like to start the day with the parazanthine first, and like run it throughout the day. So, here's what I like about the parachuse. So, I can't have caffeine past noon, like you. If I do, even if it's a little bit, my sleep is affected. So, I have to cut it off. Usually, I cut mine off early in the morning. I'll have it at like 6, 30 or 7 a.m., and then that's it. I can have one of these at 3 p.m., or 2 p.m., and one affect my sleep negatively. Oh, wow. Because of the short half life, and because it doesn't have the theobromine and theophiline, that then mess you up a little bit. But it does feel, it feels like a smooth caffeine. Yeah. It feels like it's not the same wired kind of edgy feel. It's got a different feel. So, you know, for people listening, it's like if you want to try that kind of stimulant effect. Why did you first hear about it? I remember when you brought it up a while back. So, what were you doing?

25:30So, I love, you guys know, I love supplements and chemicals and all that stuff. Better or worse. And there was this post on, and I'm always experimenting with this. Oh, you saw a post on it. Yeah, and it's, again, better or worse. I think God don't have a podcast record. He's it for good. But I saw this post, and there was this scientist discussing this alertness chemical with all these studies showing how beneficial it is. And he was quoting these studies. And I never heard of Peresanthine before. So, I thought it was some new discovered stimulant, which got me excited. So, I'm like, cool. Let's try this new, this new overlay kind of drug. But I looked at, I read about it, and I'm like, oh, this is what caffeine converts to. Like what a lot of it converts to. And so, I'm like, well, why would I take this instead of just the caffeine? So, I went a little deeper, and it was this other stuff that the caffeine turns into that causes these other effects. So, I was like, all right, let me try it out. So, I went online, I found some random company, tried some capsules, and it was, I loved it.

26:31It felt good. I didn't get the crash at the end. I didn't get the jittery, you know, jitteries. Not as sensitive as Doug is with caffeine, but I'm more sensitive than you guys are. So, I played with it. I also, my wife, I'll give it to her 3 p.m. when she crashes. If she has coffee, same thing, she'll have crappy sleep. But if I give her, you know, pear chew, then she's okay by the time we go to bed. So, it's just another stimulant that's... Did they reach out to us because you had brought that up on the showway back when? I don't know. I just saw the bottle. They must have heard us talk about it. Yeah, they must have heard you because you talked about it before. I did. I brought it up on a past episode. Yeah, you brought it back. And I remember how far back this was. You tried a pill of it, but you didn't have the same effect. This was much more... I tried low doses and scaled my way up. So, this is 200 milligrams of parazanthine in one of the chews, which will feel like... You'll get the energy of like a good strong energy drink, but it feels so much less edgy. Yeah. You just feel kind of like good. No, what I haven't done, and I'm curious if you have because you're a mister. Well, you're in a combined with... Yes. Have you done it with ketones yet? Oh, with ketones.

27:31No. No, I haven't. No, that's a good call. I've tried to pre-work out. I've taken it later in the afternoon if I crash. I give it to Jessica all the time. Yeah, be interested to stack it with ketones. Yeah. Because that tends to be my post, like, noon type of deal to keep me kind of going like that. Yeah, I know. Dude, I'm doing all the things. It's funny because people are like making fun of me because I'm not jumping in on the bandwagon of the... Let's get lean, you know, and tiny train with you guys. Just... He's always reverse-dited. I mean, somebody's got to stay big and jacked for now. It's good. Yeah, but, you know, at the same time, it's like, dude, my stress, you're talking about stress bucket is like this big. Oh, you got a lustre. I'm like, yeah, be stupid. You should be a dixie cup, right? Yeah, like, we're making it do. Like, just throw more stuff on your... Throw... Yeah, all the gas lean on top of the point. That's a good call. Like, nah. That's the last thing I would want you to do. You're right. Yeah, and I haven't had sleep sleeping terrible. And so, yeah, like, I'm actually looking at all terms because I still need energy and I need, you know, my cognitive ability to be sharp.

28:31And it's been kind of tough to balance that without taking like a million something. Speaking of which, my wife called me out so hard this morning. Oh, what? So hard, dude. And she's getting better at calling me out because... I let... Listen, one thing I love about my wife is that she's not afraid to do that. But one thing I also have a challenge with, like, I think, old men, is, you know, I can perceive it as criticism and then, you know, get defensive in the whole deal. So this morning, we're working out together. I'm trying to make more time for us to spend together because lately we've been really busy serving at the church. And so we're not really doing our date nights like we normally do. So this is the second week I did this is, hey, let's work out in the morning together. So we did. And we're working out. And she knows, you know, this constant thing I'm working on, right? My relationship to working out, like, how I am with exercising, all that stuff. And she's like, you know, I think the thing that... I'm going to paraphrase. She's like, the thing you're trying to work on is your flexibility around it. Not being so attached to all of it. And I'm like, what are you talking about?

29:31Yeah. Immediately, right? I'm like, I've cut my training volume down. I'm trying to get smaller right now. You know, I'm eating less. Like I'm not just trying to be big. I'm trying to see if I can get my weight down so that I don't snore as much. And I'm like, defending myself. And she's like, no, you're trying to get shredded. Yeah. Because what you're trying to do is actually... And so she's getting better at it. So she like, back off. Let me sit with it for a little bit. I resonate. And then, you know, she came and built me up a little bit, a little later, telling me about the great things that I'm doing. So I could sit with that a little bit. Because she's like, you know, you can fool yourself. But she's right. I totally can. I can... There's two sides of dysfunction. And I can go from here to here and miss the middle. And so I'm like, it started by me saying, I'm a lower my volume. I'm going to try and get smaller. And now what it's turned into is I'm going to get shredded, which I kind of knew. Yeah. And so she's coming out, too. So she's like, you need to lose muscle. I'm like, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, my two senses, the... I don't want to hear you. Yeah, I know you don't. I'm going to give it to you.

30:31I mean, my two senses, the answer lies in the eating is letting go of that. That's where it lies. Because you can control both directions that way, the most there. Where if you truly just let that go, or I'm like, oh, we're busy. I'm not going to eat right now. Who cares? And just keep going longer. Yeah. I'm trying. Yeah. That to me is where it lies. Otherwise, you know how easily you can tweak things with that to really change. I'm trying, dude, but it's literally, it's like bumpers. It's like the bumpers in. I'm going to play bowl. It's like bulk cut shred. Yeah. A big shred. Strong shred. PRs. You cranking them to die a little. Yeah. That's all. I mean, you, it's so funny because I didn't know that about you because I met you right around Jitsu time. Yeah. And so like I didn't, like I remember seeing you when we were when we were young, we're kids. We were crazy gorilla jack, right? I remember. We don't know. I did. He was. All arms. Do you see this? All puffy and stuff. Yeah. So I remember you, but jacked for sure.

31:32So I remember you looking at that, but then I remember seeing you Jitsu look way different. So I never like dawn on me. Like this guy probably has bicep. Because normally somebody who can do that has no form of that and is like very comfortable. You know what I mean? You're at a phase where you're jacked and you have a phase where you're like. It's not body dysmorphia anymore. And that sounds weird after what I just said. It's feeling capable. This is what's weird now. So it's like it's not so much about needing to look a particular way. And that's cool. And that's second place. But it's really about I feel I think I feel more capable when I'm controlling certain things. It's more of a control thing. It totally. And it makes me feel like I can handle things. It's very difficult. Like I'm the hardest person to ask for help. You guys know that. I don't want to, you know, so okay, base off that. I mean, it's no better. I'm a little deeper on you and stuff like that is do you notice when things in your life that you can't control very much? So does do you tighten the reins up there? Do you notice is there correlation between you mean when things gets a little haywire?

32:32Yeah, yeah. Do I try to have more control? Yeah. Of course. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's when I'll try to numb myself more with substances or supplements or you know, I'm trying to bolster myself so that I don't feel so, you know, incapable, if you will. So yeah, it's the illusion. Look, I can say this up here by the way. Logically, it's here. It's not here though. I don't feel it yet. Yeah. I can sometimes, but I can logic it. I could talk about it. I could sell it. I could communicate to someone really well about it, but to feel it is very difficult. It's very, very hard. Yeah. To feel weak. No thanks. Yeah. I'd rather not know. That's a tough life to avoid. That's a tough life. Anyway, you know, stay in on the, you know, you're switching back to what we were originally talking about with diet and stress bucket and all that stuff. You know, it's been my part I love about what we're doing right now. So this is the nerdy side of me and this is what, and I've actually felt a little conviction

33:33through this process of like, I was so resistant of like bodybuilder out for so long because like I hated that. I felt like identity I had when we started and I totally don't think I have that anymore. I don't think so. I think the fact that people get surprised sometimes they say, he's like, wow, you look like that. Oh, look at your old face. Yeah, they're so, I've actually, I prefer that. I prefer that I'm not that guy, right? And so I've been so resistant of some of the things I did that I forget some of the probably the value that I brought to the podcast through that journey too. You know, and so you threw it all out. Yeah, because exactly. I threw it all out. You know, so I throw it all out, but I also know that a big motivator of what we do on this thing is to add value and help others. And I know, you know, by you, by far, are way more knowledgeable when it comes to research and science and understanding that, communicating that to the audience. What I'm into is the tracking and awareness of all those things.

34:35And so, and your hyper, you're like really, really, really, yeah. And I feel, and I'm also noticing that I'm at a different stage in my life, which have different things are servicing with the training stress, sleep, all those things are fascinating to me. And this last one with the whole, like the amount of time that it took me, I literally just last night, this morning, I got up and finally saw my readiness score in the high 70s. Yesterday, 47, I mean, just terrible. I'm terrible. I also didn't get the greatest night of sleep. Plus, I wasn't fully recovered. So just piled on that. And of course, like to our, of staying on theme of what we're talking about, I'm in this really low calorie deficit right now that I'm fully aware of. And the combination of that, and I don't have any other stresses going on. Like, home life is amazing. Business is great. Like, I'm super happy. Good place. It's literally just physical stress that I put, I put a lot of demanding physical stress in my body relative to the shape I was in.

35:36Somebody else might laugh at that. That's a good point. Yeah, like someone else would laugh at it and go like, well, your current fitness was, you know, versus what you started to do. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's what you have to consider. Exactly. And that's hard. And again, my brain goes like, I do, I've done way more. I've pushed my body way hard. How could this possibly be affecting my readiness so much? How could I be, my sleep be disrupted this much? But again, like, you know, I'm in a different stage of my life. I'm older. I'm more de-conditioned. You know, the other thing that like light bulb for me that went off with like, just how, how quickly that de-conditioning over time like creeps up on you like, and I know I teased you a little bit about when you talked about your speed of walking on the treadmill. But I, so I have a very clear image of like, when I would get up every morning and walk on that treadmill and speed for inclined was like a, like a stroll for me where I would trip over my feet at that speed right now. And I had to start at like three, three, two and work my way all the way up.

36:36And that's like subconsciously. It's all walking. So it's not like a different form or a motor. Now actual speed is changing. Yeah. And also again, like my natural conditioning and how I move throughout the whole day and all those things. And so all these things are affected. And we- That's the value of tracking so many things because if you just thought or just felt, you wouldn't necessarily notice. At all. Yeah. Because I'm doing, I'm doing the same stuff. That's right. I do notice that. And I did. And again, because I tracked the even the speeds and stuff, I remember when I was first getting on and getting back on my kick of walking on the treadmill. And I started to go up and I was like, and I was trying to multitask reading emails and stuff. And I'm like, I can't even do this at three five. I'm like, this is weird. But I realize it like, wow, like how much I even lost the skill of doing something so basic as the- and I wouldn't say lost because I could still do it, but how much it digress. And that short period of time of just being inconsistent with that. And so, yeah, a lot of awareness around that, a lot of awareness right now around the

37:37managing the stress level in relation to it, it was really difficult for me the last three days to not train. Like I feel like one of the things I'm sure you feel too is like when you're dialed and you're feeling good. You're in rhythm. Oh, and you're in a rhythm. It's like, I'm at that place right now again too, where when I'm going to bed early and I'm thinking about my workout. Oh, yeah. I'm going to do that. Yeah. Everyone's like, yeah, yeah. Like I'm excited to get my work. My bag's already packed for tomorrow and I've already got like, I'm going to hit my element and I'm going to this like I'm going to and so and I like that feeling right and I'm excited. And there's nothing more discouraging than getting up and then and having a shit night of sleep and then seeing that and then to tell myself, I'm not going to go do that. Like that I'm having a hard time with that. That was it was been more difficult. Absolutely. Then I thought it would and so I told you off air that I've been holding like this extra four or five pounds, even though everything's dialed, three of that came off that last night. Just what you said. Yep. Exactly. Yeah.

38:38It was all inflammation. Yeah. Wow. Literally just just. Just really. How did you overcorrect it? Or if I would have pushed through and done a, you'd be holding on to more, which would made you overcorrect even more. Yeah. This is what people do. Yeah. Isn't that cool? Yeah. No, it's it's really interesting. And that's what you learned competing. Yeah. You learn all those things competing. The thing that I loved about it is this part. Yeah. The thing that did get me involved in health and fitness, I did enjoy learning about myself selfishly. Like, you know, I like helping people. But I really geeked out on like myself and my own health and those things. And this is why I like all those metrics because it gives me another thing other than just what I've read or a feeling. It's like, oh, I have measurable things that I've paid attention to. And then it reminds me of communicating to so many clients. Like how easily they get discouraged when they see that I get discouraged. And I know the science and I know what's going on and I can still be discouraged. So man, how many people out there are they feel like they're they know they're like, I know I'm eating good.

39:39That's why we say trust the process. Yeah. I know I'm eating good. I know I'm in a deficit. I know I fit the gym X amount of times this week. Like, why do I still look like this? Why is it still a, and it's just like, man, like you're probably not accounting for how much stress on the body and that extra little bit of inflammation that you're holding on is enough to make you feel fluffy and make you feel and even it register on a scale, you're up a pound or two and it's not going down. And man, how many people course correct or bail 100% did you guys, I know you saw this Justin, you guys see the whole the developments on Noah's Ark did. Have you seen this? So guys, I remember when they originally found this spot. Yeah, this is. So what they will be, it's a state is not able to go up there because of the government. That's there. This is not error at, but apparently because of the new technology with that ground penetrating radar, yeah, that they use them like the pyramids and everything else. They found all these chambers under there to explore like, I guess there's motivation now

40:39to actually go. They're going to have their visuals. Yes. So you can see the top of it. So here's why this is a trip. By the way, this is one of many, one of many things that have been proven correct by archaeological finds or historical evidence that the Bible said that everybody made fun of. This is the dimensions and everything will trip you up. Okay. So first off, they really that align. Listen, it is, so here's what's cool. When you read the Bible and you read about how Noah was instructed to build the Ark, it's very specific. You have the size and the length and the kind of wood used. So it's really easy to just prove. Number one, if you never find the Ark, you could say, well, that was a fake story. But if you do find something that looks like the Ark, you could easily say, well, the Bible said it was this long. The Bible said it was made with this wood. The Bible said it was this many floors and it's not. Well, here's what they're finding. It's the exact same length as described. It is located in the exact same place that's described in the Bible. There are 26 boat anchor stones found in the vicinity, which are also described.

41:42They're finding, it is matching. Right. So these like big monolithic type, yeah, like rocks. That was a whole, yeah. So the holes where they would tie off, you know, those were like basically anchors that they threw off the boat. Now, an archeologist and scientists are hating this right now. Why? Because it validates what sounds like from a scientific perspective, a crazy story. Yeah. Which by the way, I looked up a bunch more. I said, are there more of these kind of things that have been proven throughout history? And the answer is there's a ton. Yeah. I don't know them right? You guys know the story of Jericho and how the walls fell outward because they marched around the city, trumpets blaring, walls fell outward. They walked up the walls into the city. First of all, if you sack a town or a city, you knock the walls in. In. Who knocks them out? That doesn't happen. They found it eventually. They found it and they found, oh, yeah, the walls fell out exactly as described in a way

42:44to where armies could march up. But there's a lot of stuff that's in the Bible that has been proven. I wish I knew all the details, but like there's a podcast. This guy was describing the Shrouda Turin and like all the different like DNA evidence and like wild, wild stuff like that totally aligns with it being authentic. It does, but here's a deal. Shrouda Turin wasn't talked about in the Bible. My favorite things. No, it was. Are things that are written in the Bible. So another one, Pontus Pilate. This is Pilate was the Roman politician or leader who's the one that basically said, okay, crucify Christ. Well, for a long time, we have no evidence this guy even existed. He's only spoken about in the Gospels. Well, in 1961, they found Latin dedications, Pontus Pilate, coins and a ring with his name. So like, oh, no, he's a real guy. And he existed right around the time that this would have happened. The pools of Beth, Beth, Beth East, Estet and Soloam.

43:45That's another one. The King David. Do you guys know that for a long time, scholars thought that David, they said he was just a literal invention. He didn't really exist. Then in 1993, they discovered inscriptions from the ninth century BC that refers to the King of the House of David. So there's like so many things. My favorite one is and I learned this one relatively recently. For a long time, scientists said the universe was eternal. It's existed forever. It's always been there, never had a beginning. And then when they looked out, was it the Hubble? Yeah. And they said, oh, it's expanding. And if you turn back time, that means it all started and a choice at all back to point. And it points to Genesis. And this, by the way, at the time, the scientists did not like this discovery because they said, this just confirms what the Bible says, which is in the beginning. Yeah. And everything was created. So cool. But Noah's Ark is the wildest one because when I was, is it happening right now?

44:47Or they look? Yeah, dude. So they're all in on it right now. Yeah. And they're digging down. Are the covenants coming next? Yeah. They're actually getting ready to eat. Ever since the New York Times. Yeah, dude. Yeah. So I mean, if you asked me as an atheist and you said, what's the crazy, like what, what story is the most made up? I would have said Noah. Well, yeah, two of every animal. You know, this great flood. And it's like, there's so many flood myths and like every culture too. And like, it was the Epic of Gilgamesh. And there's like a bunch of like really old texts that have like some kind of flood myth. But like that specifically had details of like how they built the boat. Like, you know, animals involved that whole thing. So I think it's so rare. Interesting. And there's stuff you could look up, by the way, like the, the Dead Sea Scrolls. Just one of my favorites. Until that point, we had read books. We had copies of books of the Old Testament that were written after the crucifixion of Christ. So there's books of the Old Testament that predict how he was crucified, how we, how we

45:49would be pierced, how he wrote on, you know, a cult, like all these things. And so, you know, biblical scholars were like, look, these books have all these crazy predictions that actually happened. The odds of that, because you know, it was, we're impossible. Everybody's like, yeah, but that book was written after. There's no way. Then we, then we find the Dead Sea Scrolls and we find copies of books that existed before. And so you're like, how could they possibly do that? Anyway, it's really cool stuff. Architect covenants in Ethiopia. Is that what you think? Yeah, I'm going to call it. Oh, I, oh, I, when I hear that, I think Indiana Jones. Yeah. I think the same thing too. Are you feeling dug? Feeling good? Yeah. This guy do this guy's like, you know, he's passes right back. I don't know. I don't know, dude, for sure, the healthiest one at all of us. He's got an immune system that's like a horse. I don't. I just don't get this guy. So you get a fever and now you find, yeah, I woke up. Well, it was kind of a 24 hour thing. So Rachel had the same thing on Sunday. Oh, really? Yeah. And then I thought I got away with it. Doug Staxi said he got the Kung Flu. You don't need to bring that up. Rachel Chinese everybody.

46:49I can't believe he said that. Doug's a lot of erases. I know. But, uh, but yeah, I never get a 24 hour. I mean, I think once in my life, I had a 24 hour. Oh, really? Yeah, you don't get a fever. I was like, days. And I definitely at least looked like I had one the day before. You don't even look like you were sick yesterday. Yeah, I was, it wiped out though. I woke up in the middle of the night on Monday evening and I had chills and weak and I knew I was screwed. So would you be yesterday? Just sleep. I slept half the day. Yeah. All right. All right. Good. Uh, speaking of Doug, because he said this guy's, uh, he always defies time as well. Caldera's eye serum, Caldera labs, eye serum. I got some clinical data, uh, from them on the, so the eye serum, you're the most consistent with that one every day, every day. Yeah. I mean, I, I have a tendency towards very puffy eyes and it drives me crazy. Yeah. But the eye serum definitely helps. So it's, so when it's for, it's for dark circles. It's for eye puffiness. Yeah.

47:49It's for that kind of stuff. So they did a four week clinical user study. 78% solace visible dark circles, 75% solace puffiness and 87% said under eyes appeared, uh, to be smoother. So and now they have peptides in there that are, uh, that are in there specifically to do those things. Uh, and again, it's like this is all natural just like all of Caldera labs products. Very natural works with the skin. Doesn't like strip the body of, uh, of its microbiome. Uh, and at one best eye serum in the manual grooming awards. So what's cool about it is that I actually can see a difference the minute you do it. Like it right afterwards. It's not one of those things where you need to like, Oh, I need to do this for weeks. Really? Oh, yeah, yeah. I notice it right away. I don't know if you know, yeah, every day I wake up my eyes are puffy. Yeah. You put it on. You can tell a different. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, so I mean, anything like that to me is always, I mean, it's, it's an easy sell for me when I can see a difference. When you tell me about a supplement or a thing I have to take for extended period time,

48:49maybe I'll feel this. Maybe I won't. I'm so scared, but something that like you feel or notice a difference right away is cool. And there that I don't, I don't use it as regularly as Doug, Doug uses it every day. I use it when I notice that. Like if I wake up and I've got, which is not all the time, more reactionary for it. So like I haven't got much sleep and stress and I'm like noticing that. I'm just like, yeah, that's going to motivate me to kind of use it and see if I can help a bit. Oh, yeah. You'll notice different. You'll notice a difference right away. I like how they pay for studies too. You know, there's a lot of products out there that will make claims about the. If you go on their website, if you go on Caldarel, they will have clinical studies on their products to show just how much people notice a difference. So have you heard of this school, this high school? Adam, I'm so I'd be surprised if you didn't because when I read this, I'm like, dude, Adam would love this. It's called Founder School. Oh, yeah. And it's in New York. I've heard of this. Yeah. Who do I hear it from? Who told me about this? You want to hear what's crazy about it? You just read about it somewhere or I know somebody. So a Gary V.

49:50I mean, dude, so this is a high school. So trip off this. This is a crazy concept. It's not a huge school yet. It's just got 20 students. It's a brand new school. It's $150,000 a year to go there. Sounds like a lot. Yeah, but you're mentored by other founders. Here's what they do. Yeah, yeah, it's cool. If a student doesn't build a $1 million profit business by graduation, they get a full refund. Whoa. So I didn't know that. That's cool. If you go to this school and you're paying 150 grand a year. By the end of the term, four years later, if you don't have a business that's profiting a million dollars, they'll refund you your whole tuition. Is that true? Like invite schools that are really hard to get in or just to get the price. You know what the percentage of businesses that are profitable by one of the others are in the country? It's crazy. It's like a single digit. So look at that up for me, guys. But I want to say it's 4%. So this is what they do. Students finish traditional academics by 11 a.m. They're done with traditional academics.

50:50The rest of the day is on building companies. That's so sick. Now I'm wondering if the school itself gets a piece of the businesses? Yeah, you think they'd probably. Yeah, I'm wondering, right? Yeah. If they have some percentage, yeah, we'll get some of the business as well. It's got to. If that's the only way to make that a profitable way of doing things, that's the only way you could afford to get. Because here's the thing. I mean, 150,000. Because here's the thing. I'm going to have Doug look right now. And even if the school blasts the country average, which I expected to be a school, right? The company average, the country average is like single digits. Yeah, no, here we are. Yeah, one to two percent. Yeah, one to two percent. Yeah. So the school's got to be. Yeah, but think about this way too, Adam. And again, I'm just speaking, I'm just, you know, thinking out loud. First off, they probably picked the students. There's 20. So you got to make it. So number one, they're like, okay, who's most likely to do it? Right. Number two, they got four years of the best in interest in coaching them and building them up to build these businesses. I mean, I would be in it's only 20 students. Yeah, I want to get. Now is it a million dollars profit or a million dollar business?

51:52It says a million dollar profit business by graduate. Okay. It's interesting. Yeah, because that's such a rare thing to build a business that is, building a million dollar business is enough, is impressive enough. I think that number is also even single digits for it to be a profitable million dollar business. That's not just gross. You know, that's crazy. Businesses that profit a million have to be doing close to 10 million dollars. Yeah. So that's, that's an unbelievable feat. Isn't this wild? It is cool. It's so again, students finishing that about that. I didn't know that about that. Yeah, they're finishing to heard about it. So I'll repeat. Who started it? I'm not here. Matt Liasen. So it's built by Alpha School, which uses an AI accelerated mastery based academic system. So listen to this. I'll read more. Adam, check this out. 11 a.m. You're done with your normal school. The rest of the day is a founder boot camp with apprenticeships and real businesses. So you're just, you're going to work, dude, for four years. You're building businesses and you're in your apprentice or you're being apprentice by people who built businesses.

52:52What a cooler idea for school. Wait, you keep me. I would have signed me up for that. So this guy, I would have loved it. I would have loved it done something. I said, it says here led by Matt, Elias and the first cohort is 20 freshman. Matt says AI is the unlock. The expertise build up, the capital requirements and the time used to take are all collapsing, which is why he thinks a 17 year old now can build a million dollar business. Early Alpha students have already generated over $30,000 in AI ventures. The first, so we'll see. It says the first refund check would prove the model. 30,000 or 30,000. 30,000. This is Alpha School. Now this is a different, I guess it's from them. Okay. And they're going to make this university. Yeah, I would think that's a wild concept. I would think they would get some sort of a percentage, right? It makes sense that it would be like built like shark tank a little bit. Yeah. So you're not only you already, just like shark tank does, they're already filtering out good businesses as it is. And then they get to meet all the founders and they get to hear the whole breakdown. So again, thinking out loud, I'm listening their time effort all that so they're going to want to see something. Again, thinking out loud, you're looking at the AI potential revolution.

53:55You're like, let's get some young kids in here. Let's find some talented generation who are going to dedicate like time and energy. We'll teach them. They're motivated to get a refund on their tuition. Yeah. I mean, they're going to probably come out with some bangers. Isn't that crazy? No, I think it's awesome. I'm so curious to see how it turns out. No, no, no, me too. It'll be interesting to see. I think they're starting here on the West Coast. I mean, all they have to do is take a very small percentage of the successful ones because then they can afford to refund other ones. If they don't take a percentage of that and they have to purely refund that, then you're playing a crazy math game like the likelihood of even in a school like, what do you think, even if you're hand picking, if the nation's average is 1 to 2%. You think you could hand pick 50%. I don't know. That'd be crazy. Yeah, I think you'd be lucky to have 10% of that. 10% would be wild. So do I. That's why I think too. But maybe what they're thinking is one of those is going to be 50 million.

54:57Well, that's what I mean by that. That's what I mean by they got to be taken to 5% cut or 1% of the business they helped build. Because then it then funds all the losses on all the other and makes up for all the, you know what I'm saying? It makes sense like that. Or maybe it's a way to advertise this AI education, which is what he's really trying to build. I don't know. Yeah. I think it's crazy. I think what an opportunity. Those 20 kids, what an crazy opportunity to go there and just for most of the day, for four years, you're learning how to build. I mean, I would love something like that. You know, it reminds me. I would put my kid in that old. I know. I was talking to one of my buddies yesterday, actually from my group. And you know, we often share on here anytime that we were really wrong about something. And I have to admit how wrong I was about groups like that. I was really resistant to that type of stuff. And I think there, I don't think that I would call them. What do they like mastery or?

55:58Yeah, the mastermind group say those names, right? Even the name makes me a lot more. Yeah. You know what? There's a lot of grifters in it. So I still think that there's a lot of crap. But I would have never, I would have never guessed the relationships I built, the friendships and bonds that I built in that, the knowledge that I gained and how much I learned. I mean, it was, it was incredible perspective. Yeah. Yeah. I learned a lot. I still learned. I have this network and circle. But one of my friends just exited his boom pop shot out to Blake. That was a huge success. He just exited his company. He was going through that while we were together. So he just got that news. I think just like two weeks ago. So that was a huge, huge deal. They are responsible for the largest or second largest company that puts on events for big companies like party events and organizes like retreats and stuff like that. So he scaled that and built that young entrepreneurs man.

56:59These are all young, which was also fascinating for me to be the old guy. You know, I was the old guy which felt really weird. I know, I know I'm the old guy up things now too. I used to always be the kid. I'm still in denial. I'm so in denial of that. Yesterday talking to Michael, right? We had Michael Smokin here, which was such a great, great dude. Yeah. I'm glad you guys got, because his friend will just, just these like smart kids. They're very, very smart. They're grown man. I was the kids. Yeah. But they're just sharp. Well, they are like to us. And I forget that because I feel like I'm a peer. Yeah. I feel like we're all peers. You know, it was very eye opening how, you know, we are. We're a different generation and cool to watch his journey from afar. Because obviously the two of them were big fans of Mind Pump, you know, 10 plus years ago, while they were 19 years old. It's funny to me to see like a clear example of like that generation growing up with access to podcasts, with access to like education everywhere.

58:00Yeah. We didn't have that. You know, he's so educated and quotes so many different people all the time and it's like, whoa, it's just mind blowing. You know, it doesn't make you do you guys think, like I wonder too, if like if we were the 19 year olds at that time, like we could consume. Oh, I would have been a podcast fanatic. Yeah. I think so too. Yeah. You're right. Because he's such an example of, and he's talks about it when we interviewed him, right? Like that he just was consuming just alone, alone and consuming hours and hours and hours and hours. And then you hear him communicate and you just think this guy's got five degrees and he's been through all this crazy life. Totally. Yes. He's just absorbed so much knowledge like that. It's so cool. Dude, I got to share something with you guys that I learned the other day. First of all, I like to look up what the, the old like orthodox and Catholic traditions will label the saints and to learn about their lives. Oh, I heard you talk about this. It's fascinating. They're really fascinating stories of why they are saints, whether you know, deemed as saints by these, these old traditions, how they lived, what they did.

59:02And just there's just so much crazy history there, but I learned about this one guy and they turned them into the patron saint of comedians. Oh, I think you're going to tell the wrestling one. No, no, not that guy. So this is the different one. So this is the patron saint of comedians. Do you know what happened, dude? Huh. So he was, the reason why he got executed was because the church was, was taking in money and treasure and keeping it and he kept giving it to orphans and widows and defying the church. So eventually the church and the, you know, political establishment at that time executed them. And the way they executed them was they put them on essentially a barbecue. They had iron gates with finer teeth and they put them on top and they kill you. So hardcore. Yes. It's terrible. Like terrible death. Do you know what he, the quote that he has? This is why he's the patron saint of comedians. So he's burning on one side. He looks over at his executors and he says, turn me over. I'm done on the side. Oh my God. Dude gangster. What a champion. Yes, dude. And so this is a very, this is a famous quote from, and a lot of these saints when they're

1:00:08martyred show this crazy courage while they're being executed where they, you know, it's like, hey, you know, he imagined. Hey, don't cut my beard when he cut my head off like comments like that. And so this guy's literally getting grilled. And he's like, hey, I'm done on the side. Turn me over. It's like, wow. Amazing. I love that. So they made it to the patron saint of comedians. Oh my God. That's what you're saying. Are you reading like a book that has all these? I have a book and then, and then I'll use AI and I'll start reading up about these different saints and, and then I look for historical evidence is, is there historical evidence or is this like just a story? And you would be shocked at some of the stuff that like these, these people have done and, and how they're recorded and it's like, oh my gosh, dude. I guess it's crazy. We don't know more about some of the stuff. That's wild. Yeah, that's funny. Seed is the only company we work with that's a probiotic company. A probiotics have so many benefits. The data shows they can help with gut health. They can help with anxiety, depression. They can help with skin health.

1:01:08They actually have shown this in clinical trials. They can also help with recovery and adaptations to exercise their studies that show enhanced fat loss. Why is that? Well, the healthy gut with good bacteria does so much for your body. There's a lot of probiotic companies that are out there, but most of them don't deliver live bacteria to where you need them. Seed is different. First of all, they're the world's leading company in probiotic science. They also have a capsule that's designed to deliver live bacteria where you need it. If you've used probiotics in the past and we're disappointed, seed will not disappoint you. They're the best. Go to seed.com slash mine pump. Use the code 25 mine pump for 25% off back to the show. Our first color is Kevin from Massachusetts. Hello, Kevin. Hey, Kevin. Hey, guys. Really appreciate you having me on today. You got it, man. How can we help? I'll stop. I'll read my email. All right. I'm trying to decide which maps program would be the best fit for me, and I really appreciate your recommendation.

1:02:09To give you some background, 37 years old, 5'7 and around 165 pounds, I've been skateboarding for over 25 years, essentially my entire life. I never had much interest in going to the gym because skateboarding was always my passion and the thing I focused on. Once I hit my 30s, the injury started piling up. Between 30 and 35, I had two foot surgeries and then hip surgery to repair my labor. I spent a lot of that time rehabbing and trying to get healthy enough to get back on my board. After hip surgery, I was eventually able to skate again, but I started developing smaller nagging injuries. Nothing was necessarily serious, but it kept it was preventing me from skating consistently. That's when I decided to take my physical preparation more seriously and try to get in the best shape possible so I could hopefully continue to skate for many years. That decision led me to the gym and unexpectedly I completely fell in love with lifting.

1:03:15When I started, I knew very little about lifting, so I spent a lot of time researching on how to perform the major lifts correctly. I started following a PPL program on the latter app, coached by a professional skateboarder who had similar goals of improving longevity to skateboard. I've now been lifting consistently for one year or nine months and have followed that same program the entire time. Very rarely do I miss a workout and I generally train five days a week if not more. About nine months into lifting, I discovered my pump and it completely changed the way I think about training, nutrition, recovery and changing my physique. The information has generally been life changing for me. Nutrition has been a big part of that transformation. For essentially my entire life, I naturally stayed between 150 and 155 pounds regardless of what I ate or how active I was.

1:04:16I always ate relatively healthy, but I enjoyed the occasional pizza or other savory foods like that a couple times a week. For the first ten months of lifting, I didn't track macros and looking back, I was significantly under-eating both protein and calories. After one specific podcast about nutrition, I changed my diet the very next day and moved to a roughly 95% whole food diet. I gradually increased my calories and started tracking macros. Over roughly four months, I went from 155 pounds to 170 and eventually reaching around 3,000 calories and 200 grams of protein a day. The exact thing you said that the exact thing you said would happen ended up happening, even though I gained weight, I looked much leaner and was more muscular. I've since settled around 165 pounds. I've also made significant strength gains during these less than two years of lifting.

1:05:20I listed out some of my heavy lifts in the email, or at least heavy for me. I know I'm still relatively new to lifting compared to someone who's trained for many years, but I feel I've developed a solid strength base for my training age. At the same time, I want to continue, I want to keep improving my foundational technique and move from a quality. I don't want to simply move more weight. I want to become a better lifter and build a strong, durable body that will serve me for the rest of my life. There's another part of my background that I'm wondering if you think is relevant when choosing a program for me. After skating for 25 years, I'm extremely comfortable with pain, discomfort, falling, getting back up and pushing through physical hardship. That's essentially what skateboarding has been for me my whole life. I think I've developed a high tolerance for discomfort and I'm getting to wonder whether I'm actually that may actually work against me in the gym. Over the last year and a half, I've heard you guys talk about overtraining and recovery,

1:06:25and I've struggled to figure out whether I'm actually doing too much. Because I'm less than two years into lifting, I don't have enough experience to know what too much feels like for me. I understand the concepts when you explain them, but I don't always know how to recognize that in myself. I don't leave the gym feeling overly sore. Sometimes after a heavy leg day, I'll feel it for a few days, but that's about it. Almost wrapped up here. I try to get around eight hours of sleep every night. If I get less than seven, I'll generally take it easier at the gym, but I found it very difficult not to take almost every set to within one to two reps of failure. I've heard you guys talk about this constantly. I don't yet have enough experience to intuitively know when I should push and when I should hold back. I genuinely love training hard and my instinct is to almost always go hard. That's one of the reasons I'm interested in trying a maps program.

1:07:26While my current program seems very in line with what you guys talk about on the podcast, I'm hoping different structured program will be beneficial and help auto regulation instead of simply trying to rely on my instinct to just go hard. Although my primary goal is longevity for the next year or so, I like to maximize gains and physique change and then shift into a more long-term sustainable lifting or change. Thanks for calling in. Great job, dude. You're really strong too. Yeah, great. Great. Are you still, skateboarding is still a big part of your life? Is that still something you want to keep doing? No, it was and then I don't know after like 10 months of lifting and I started to see a little progress. I just like lifting now. Well, that's awesome. No good. That really does change. My answer quite a bit. But I'm going to back up a little bit just so you kind of understand and this is good

1:08:27for listeners as well. It's kind of what started to happening in your 30s with injuries, all right? Because you skateboarded for a long time and suddenly injury after injury, depending on the type of sport, okay? You'll see this happen and it's not because your body is necessarily old but rather your tolerance and resilience starts to drop a little bit. So the amount of skateboarding and intensity you were doing in your 20s then started to become a little too much. And so this is how injuries start to pop up and so people do this happens with certain, especially very dynamic sports like skateboarding. Skateboarding requires an incredible level of proprioceptive ability and agility and when you're a little overwhelmed by the amount of stuff that you're doing because your body's resilience goes down and then injury risk goes up so you'll fall more and stuff like that happens. All right. Now back to your lifting. Your physique looks great. You're real strong. You've got really good genetics. You respond really, really good to strength. Yeah, you look like somebody who's been lifting for 10 years, bro.

1:09:28Yeah, that's awesome. I think if you like, you like what you're doing, you're lifting five days a week, you seem to be doing okay with that much training volume. You mentioned MAP Santa Ballacare MAP Santa Ballacare Advanced. I think you'd be fine with MAP Santa Ballacare Advanced and I think you'd see some really good strength gains from that program. Now following that, if you want like a long term strategy, I would follow that up with symmetry. Yep. Then I'd go to something like performance and then something like power lift and I think that would take you for like, I would give you like a year almost of workout programming. Then as far as diet is concerned, you've got that dialed in, bro. And I think you're going to keep building some muscle and just getting more of a quality look to your physique. But you've got really good genetics, dude. Your body responds really well to strength training. It's funny. I immediately, I would love to see you do like all time strength just because you're very resilient to struggle and pain. It's like one of the most challenging programs we have for that, but like the gains for that is unreal. So consider that as one of the follow ups down the road.

1:10:32I would add something for you that I think if I was coaching, I'd want you to do just like a teach you and show you this. You mentioned how you know and you good self awareness to know that you have that personality of like, I can just beat myself up, get up and go. And so you're your gauge for pain and tolerance is probably a little skewed than the average person. And you're like, man, how much do I pull back? But I don't want to lose my gains everything. So you be blown away if you ran like three weeks of like easy lifting. I mean, easy like five reps short of failure, like just going through the movements. And I would make like if we were training together, I would like make you do that just so you could see like, oh shit, I trained that way and didn't lose any gains and my body feels really good. So you could see like, okay, I could totally pull back way more than where I'm going and not go backwards at all. Now maybe you will see huge gains in that those three weeks, but you'll set you up for gain, but what you'll feel is very recovered, just as strong, looked just as good.

1:11:33And you're like, oh, wow, I'm, I'm half the intensity I was right before that. And so I would do that exercise with yourself. So just challenge yourself for a couple of weeks to like go way easier than you think you should be even close to and just watch what happens and you'll be surprised how much you still keep your strength, how good you still look and what you'll probably notice is you'll be so recovered. And then when you kind of, when you ramp the intensity back up, watch, watch the PRs, watch the gains come come from that. So I think it would be a good exercise for somebody like you to do that. Well, I actually just moved. So I took the last 10 days off from lifting for the first time since I started lifting, really, I haven't taken any, any weeks off, but I'm all moved in and I'm after work today. I'm going to go to a new gym and, oh, that'll be exciting. Okay. So this will be interesting how strong, how you feel this, this, this first week and

1:12:34many times we talk about this in the podcast where we've learned this lesson where we'd have a vacation where we take off camping or something for a week and, you know, interrupts your training. Then I go back many times, it'd be stronger when I got back with all those days off. That normally is a sign that, okay, I was kind of pushing the rev limiter too much, too often and I need to back off, because just me taking a whole week off, I come back stronger. That's a sign that I needed that recovery. And so this will be good for you. Yeah, makes sense. I just, because you guys talk about overtraining like so much. And like at first, I just ignored it when I first started like listening to the mic, but now I'm like, they talk about all the time and like, I go so hard all the time. Yeah. Maybe I'm overtraining. I just don't know, like, I have no reference for what it that looks like. Well, what people do is they wait until they get the signs of burnout. Right. So it's like, oh, nagging injury and I'm going backwards and I feel like crap. But they could have, they could have stopped that week before.

1:13:36They could have it. Yeah. Yeah, because then at that point, you got to take time now to kind of get back to where you were, or type of deal. So structured, uh, D load weeks and stuff like that just prevents that from happening. Well, and it's hard to gauge too. If this is a new thing, uh, to really find what the, where those lines are for you personally. But, um, yeah, the more we can kind of like play around with that and do less and then kind of work our way up, you'll find that sweet spot. Yeah, especially when you're strong, dude. So the more weight you lift, the higher the volume on the body and you're really strong. And I saw some of your lifts. You weigh 165 and you got a, it says you're dead lifting 315 for wraps and squat and 350. Yeah. That's really strong, dude. Very strong. Yeah. So, uh, you know, actually, um, like at the end of last year, my, I started to have shoulder pain. Yeah. And, um, I got an MRI. I had a slight tear in my labor. Um, so for the first half of this year, I only did, uh, like PT for my upper body and I did legs.

1:14:37So like I went super hard on squats that lift, like, uh, for like five months and, um, cause I couldn't, like I couldn't bench. I couldn't really do anything up for body. So I was like going hard with the PT and now I'm good. Like, I can do most, uh, upper body lifts now. Um, so maps, that's why the legs, maps at a bulk advanced has weak, de-load weeks in between the phases. Do those scheduled. Yeah. Don't skip those. Do those and you'll be okay. And then I don't know if you've heard, uh, let me talk about on the podcast before, but just kind of a general for long Jevety since we brought that up to, um, we always recommend that somebody runs at least one cycle a year of either symmetry or performance. So if you do a good job of like, so if you move in and out of maps, uh, advanced, uh, at a bulk advance, you do the old time, like Justin was saying, as long as you interrupt in a year, uh, a cycle of either performance or symmetry, I don't really, uh, uh, make sure you do, you're getting a nice balance of unilateral, multi-planar movements, rotational work.

1:15:42That'll really keep you, uh, the longevity game going for you. Yeah. And then I'll, we'll write down a list of what you kind of want to follow with a discount code. If you decide to continue beyond just the end of all the advanced. Yeah. No, I appreciate it. Thanks a lot, guys. You got a great work, man. Later. He's got, uh, I mean, he's, he's, he's natural and he looks like that after lifting this for a year. He's got like, like, competitor. He's got like, uh, he looks, he can't be natural. Like a physique guy. I mean, even not natural. He's still, that's still impressive. That's what I'm saying. I think he's, I think he, I don't know. Uh, yeah. I should have asked him. Yeah. I don't want to put him on the spot, but it doesn't matter. Even if he was taking test, I was still incredible and impressive for that short appearance of time. And I mean, you know what? A guy who said he didn't lift ever. Yeah. All he did was skateboard and then I'll send touch weights for how long now? But you know, if you, again, going back to what he said about like, oh, it's, it's got my 30s to start getting hurt. Uh, your body's tolerance for just lots of stress.

1:16:44It starts to lower. Yeah. And so it used to be okay because that's too much. That's too much. Yeah. And then you're starting to get, dude, that's those hard. And then it also, agility is one of the first things that kind of go, uh, you know, strength is much, much later. Right. And so things that require a lot of agility can be, it'd be interesting to look at it Tony Hawk and how he was able to stay. And dynamic. And dynamic. Yeah. You know what I'm saying for it. Yeah. I mean, you're talking about, uh, the, just the things required, like the ankle mobility. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And then the one skateboard is in a million injuries. Right. Yeah. Our next caller is Jen from West Virginia. Hi Jen. Hi Jen. Hello. Hey guys. How are you? Good. How you doing? All right. I'm going to read my question only because I changed it around just a little bit. Okay. So I'm a 49 year old wife and mom of two adult sons and a former group fitness instructor. I started listening to your podcast many years ago and took a lot of your advice to heart. I changed my lifestyle, started lifting really heavy, incorporating breast periods, which

1:17:47was really difficult. That I'll do my hormones sleep and protein. For a while though, I was doing a ton of volume in the gym and walking a lot and started wondering if I might actually being too much. I thought it might be time to follow a program and challenge myself mentally by doing less. So I chose muscle mom and 15. Honestly, I expected the biggest challenge to be mentally backing off the volume. I didn't expect to get much physically out of it, but I was completely wrong. During the last phase, I was hitting a new PR on almost every lift each week and I was really surprised by it. So now I'm wondering if I want to continue making progress, should I stay with the last phase of muscle mommy 15 for a while and see how far I can take these lifts or is there a point where I should move on to something like anabolic or another maps program. My second question is how hard should I be continuing to push at 49? How do I know when I've reached the point where I'm pushing enough weight that I'm increasing

1:18:49my risk of injury rather than getting a better training stimulus? I obviously want to continue getting stronger, but I want to be smart about longevity and not hurting myself chasing numbers for context. I'm 5'4 and about 135 pounds. Yeah, good question. You found the sweet spot and I would continue to work through the entire Maps 15 library. That's where you stay. You stay right in there and what's great is we have ones like performance and symmetry which will address unilateral work and any sort of imbalances that you might have and so that'll play the long-gevity game for you. I'm a big fan of continuing to stay strong, but at one point you do start hitting numbers where the risk versus reward, especially if you are happy with your physique, you are relatively strong. I think that at some point you just keep maintaining that and you keep going. What it would look like, because I could ask you, what are your lifts and stuff like,

1:19:50it really depends on the person, what when the risk versus reward kind of ratio starts to fall out of favor. What it kind of looks like is this, Jen, is that when you're feeling stronger, there's a lot of ways to make the lift harder without adding weight. You can slow the rep down, you could pause at the bottom, you could squeeze a little harder. Those are all ways to make the exercise harder. The time to add weight would be, if you want to keep it really safe, would be when the weight you're now using that you're trying to make feel hard, just starts to feel like this is way too late. Then you go up a little bit and then you're good. We tend to run into problems is when we're chasing the weight. I think I might be able to do more. Let me try and do a little bit more, rather than being like, I think I could go a little slower or let me pause the squat halfway up for two seconds. Let me try and see if I can hold it at the bottom for a second and a half or let me slow

1:20:50down the negative of the support of the rep. That's you just play with stuff like that and that keeps things pretty safe. It also makes your technique really good. Another great way to pursue PR still and seeing strength gains and doing so that is to introduce new lifts that you just don't really do. I use examples like the Turkish get up or a circus press or some of these move a wind meal, a weighted wind meal. These are movements that typically people aren't as familiar with or maybe don't do all the time. It's like maybe you've been doing the same deadlift squat and basic movements and you've kind of hit a top tip, a tipping point where it's really heavy and you're wondering, oh, should I go more? Maybe I start to introduce a new movement that I really focus on trying to get stronger at. That will allow a lot of runway of gains and PRs and all the benefits that you reap from that and just kind of move in and out of new movements like that, which will also benefit longevity and everything else for you too. Now I do have a question for you, Jennifer. That's okay.

1:21:50Yes. Just because you're an X fitness instructor, you like to work out. You kind of fit in an avatar that sometimes under eats. What are your calories and protein and all that look like? Well, believe it or not, I used to be an overeater. That's not been a problem. Actually, I talked to Rob a couple weeks ago when I was the middle of phase two and he had me track for a week because I can get a little obsessive with numbers and I was between 26 and 3,200. Yeah. Okay. Jenny, kicking ass. But my drawback is, as I probably average, literally for the past 20 years, 20,000 steps a day. That's all right. It's not a drawback if you're used to it and it's not hurting you. You're totally fine. Yeah. But you're getting stronger. So the 15 protocol, we have a whole library of those programs. So you just finished muscle mommy 15. You could go symmetry 15.

1:22:50You could go power lift 15. You could go 15 performance. You could do the traditional. I mean, just move through those. You just keep rotating through the ones that sound interesting to you and what's nice is if you do bounce around through those, you'll organically do what I was talking about, which is introducing some different lifts and movements. So that'll allow you to focus on getting stronger there. How are you doing with the long rest periods? It's hard. I actually don't check my emails all day and that's when I go through my emails and delete them all. Oh, good. So I found a little hack for myself. Okay, good. Good for you. So keep working on that. I know how challenging that, that's challenging for everybody. It is brilliant. Yeah, especially for somebody who has, you know, a group X backgrounds. So I know how tough that is. Let me send you the traditional mass 15. It's actually one of the most balanced programs that we have and that'll be your next one. Don't stay in a phase for a really long period of time because then problems start to pop

1:23:51up. So because that was your question. So I'll send you mass 15 and then we'll send you what we think the next order of 15 programs will be best for you. So you can, you kind of know where to go. Okay. That'd be great. Thank you guys. I really appreciate your time. You got it. I James, I'm doing great. All right. Thanks. I was pleasantly surprised by her color intake because you know, ex group extractor. That's like, yeah, usually it's pretty. 1600 calories a day. Yeah, yeah. I was just kicking butt. No, no, no, doing it really good. Well, listen, for people listening, everybody thinks when they follow the mass 15 programs, that, oh, I don't know if you really have. Everybody hits PR. Everyone knows. No, it's not. We have yet to have a caller call in and say, yeah, I went backwards. Every single person was like, I can't believe it's probably the best result for most people. Our next caller is Katie from Texas. Hi, Katie. Hello. Hello. How's it going? Good. How can we help you? Good. Hi, I'm back on the show. I had reached out a little over a year ago.

1:24:52I had just wrapped up coaching and was starting to go through some maps programs and wanted to explore some things with a bigger range of motion. I'm pretty flexible and was starting to do the astrograph squats and all of that and seeing my quads explode. So you guys had recommended old time strength. I've gone through it now a couple of times. Loved it. It is like exactly what I was looking for in terms of range of motion. My shoulders look amazing. My quads look amazing. Everything. It's been awesome. Lots of increased proprioception and everything too, as far as just general flexibility with strength incorporated. Awesome. I've loved that. I have also, I wrote in a while ago with this one. In the, I guess, eight weeks or so since I wrote in, I did start maps performance. Just in looking through the program, it was pretty similar in terms of what I was looking for as far as format.

1:25:53So I really loved the three to four days a week with old time strength. So I've enjoyed that with performance as well. And that's a pretty good cadence for me just as far as overall lifestyle, trigger sessions in general. So I'm kind of looking for a third program to round out. I have my overall annual plan, if you will. So really open to packing on some more muscles, some more strength and maybe something that's a little bit, I know performance obviously has some of the plio incorporated. So maybe we're looking at something with kind of heavier strength and lower rep for the start program. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, yeah. We're mostly building. Yeah. And that's generally where I'm looking. And I will say just as far as general context, I'm 32, 5 to 8, I'm super consistently around like 155 pounds. I've been listening to you guys for about six years now. And when I first started listening, I was like in the like 130s.

1:26:56So I've put on like a ton of muscle since then, like 16 to 18% body fat now. So I will say I'm like really open to putting on more muscle, but I have kind of like, I'm still with these programs I've worked on. I'm still gaining a ton of strength, but I'm seeing myself more recon, rather than like packing on a ton of muscle because I've kind of like reached a point where like, even if I eat a lot more, I still like my body likes 155. I don't really track it that much, but it seems like I've kind of like camped out there. So I'm open to putting on more muscle and certainly open to like eating as much as I can, but I think just that context as far as I know that you guys kind of tend to like recommend the reverse diet. Done that a little bit and I'm open to it, but I mean, I would love to push you in that direction while running and you like, do you like the four day a week or three day a week, which is yeah, yeah. So I usually do like every other day. So that's kind of a good cadence for me and lower will be upper lower and a high, yeah, but powerlifts is three.

1:27:57So upper lower would be perfect and run it. And that I really want that when we run that program in particular, I really want to push calories. Let's push calories like we've never pushed before. You're in such a good place. You're very, you're very lean. You're getting like, I think your body is just going to eat it up and you'll get strong and pack home. It'll feel great. Yeah. So Katie, you're obviously, because you're getting stronger, you feel good. Hormones are probably pretty balanced because you're lean, but everything feels good. Okay. Yeah, I'm like super, super good and like like help wise. Awesome. Do you, do you generally eat kind of the same things every day? Like if I were to, if you were to look at your date, is it look kind of similar most days? Yes. So I will say just as far as like meal wise is concerned, I follow pretty consistent to what you guys have recommended. So kind of always hit my protein goal. I never am low on that. Lot of ground beef, lot of good protein in there.

1:28:58And, and pretty good with that. So I usually eat like three big meals, but I will say I snack a lot throughout the day too. Just like I eat when I'm hungry. So it's, it's a pretty consistent. So, so if you stay with what you're doing, you're going to be healthy. You're going to still see progress. I feel very comfortable. It's all good. If you want to push it a little bit, then because you eat kind of generally similarly throughout the day, then the easy way to bulk or reverse diet without tracking is to take what you normally eat and just have larger portions. So it's literally like this is what I normally will eat. So I'm going to add another two ounces of meat and another, you know, four or a cup or a cup of rice or whatever. Yep. And you just do that. That's if you want to push it. You actually don't have to, though, Katie. So if you're comfortable and you're happy and you're like, you know what, I don't, I feel good. Everything's great. I don't think you need to do that. But if you're like, you know what, I want to see what I can do in the next three months, then, then definitely push the calories consistently on a daily basis. And that'll be like turbo. Yeah.

1:29:59Okay. Yeah. That's awesome. I've reached a point where it's like I only, I only can eat some of it today. So it's like I've been trying like more olive oil or like a higher fat salad dressing or something there. So I think that's definitely it's like a little bit more with like the kind of core building blocks as far as meat and everything like that. I definitely can lean in a little more there. Yeah. And it's just a trade off because again, you said like, I feel like I'm eating a lot. Like, okay, there's a little bit of a decrease in quality of life when you're pushing a goal. I mean, that's a fact. Yeah. So you got to ask yourself like, is it worth it? Do I want to do it? And you feel like, you know what, for the next three months, let me see what I can do. You just make the portions bigger each time you eat and then see how that feels. And if you're like, I don't like it, go back to what you were doing before, but you're killing it. You're doing great. Yeah. And it's been super fun too. I, I've loved, I think both of these programs have been like way, way different than it's like a squad and a bench press. And it's definitely been kind of what I'm looking for. And like way more functional too as far as like my golf game's gotten better.

1:31:01It'll be fun to see how you train with this more like bilateral kind of focus and really see your strength increase because you're so reinforced now and like protect it around your joints. It'd be, I would be surprised if you weren't like hitting numbers. You never said upper lower is more of a traditional bodybuilding. Yeah. Split. And so it's going to feel different, but what you're going to get are pumps, muscle, shape, sculpt, which is fun. Totally different focus. It'll be great. It's also fun. I love you adding this because when I look at what you've been running already, it's like the perfect, like if I could get a client to just run those programs every year, like you're, you're touching it all, you know, that's, that's, I don't take you a long ways. Yeah. It's, it's been great. I definitely, it's like when I have brought in some of the, again, like the traditional back squats and things like that that are in performance. It's like, wow, I feel so much better having all of this stability and, in these kind of unique ranges of motion. So awesome. Awesome. We'll send that.

1:32:01We'll send up or lower to you and can't wait to hear. I want to let us know how it goes. Yeah. Awesome. I appreciate it guys. I'm really excited to try it. Thank you. Right on. That was awesome. Yeah. So here's an example of a young woman below 20%. Yeah. What she's communicating, which I'm getting stronger. I feel good. I'm eating a lot. Hormones are good. Hormones are good. Cool. There's no, there's no reason to do any tweaking. Well, this, so, and she said something that I think is really key too is like even when she says she feels like she pushes the calories. Her body still hovers around her weight. And that's what a recomplooks like. It looks like you push calories. She builds a little muscle. She also has probably a few days in there that she's a little lower on calories and then she leans out. And so it's a, it's a very healthy, good place to be. Our next caller is Jessica from Massachusetts. Jessica, welcome back. Welcome back. Hey guys. How are you? Thanks for having me back. Yeah. Also pre-four morning, I might have multiple children running into the room. So just sorry about that.

1:33:02No worries. Were used to it. Okay. Okay, perfect. Yep. Everybody should be napping, but you guys know how that goes. I do. Yes. Thanks for having me back. I appreciate it. It's been a good 60 days. So that's been really good. I think the update that I emailed in was just that after I talked with you guys, I actually went and got a Dexascan, which was super informational and helpful. I think I needed those numbers and it came back pretty much saying the same thing you guys had said to. I need to increase my calories. My RMR was wicked low for what it should be for my age and activity level, which was a bummer, but also a motivator because I don't want to be 70 years old eating 1,000 calories and gaining weight. So I really took what you guys said. I've been trying to apply it slowly, very slowly.

1:34:06I've only made it up to 1900 calories, but we're getting there. And I think my big thing was consistency. I realized that although my numbers I gave were my goal each day, the actuality of me meeting them each day was probably 50-50. When I got really serious about really tracking every single bite, I was like, wow, I'm not getting meeting them as I thought I was. So I was super eye-opening. So I've been, the increase of calories has been slow, but steady and just trying to kind of keep it consistent, if that makes sense. Yeah, totally. Jessica, how scary has it been to bump your calories? I'm not going to lie, super scary. Yeah. Intimidating, my husband's had to be like a big motivator for me every day just to accountability

1:35:09coach probably is the right word. Yeah, it's tough. It's really scary. I'm so glad you said that. You're honest about it because it's every day scary. It's every meal scary. And so it's not like, oh, I got to deal with this thing once a week. It's like a, oh, here we go, breakfast. Now it's time for, now it's time for, and so it's this constant battle. Are you doing it on your own is going to be very, very, very difficult. And what's going to happen is what you've probably experienced, which is 50-50. And what often happens in my experience with this 50-50 is it's like, I do well. And then I make up for it on the other 50% of time. And so it's like, I'm okay. But then now I'm going to do it a little, I'm going to go a little lower than I normally would. And so it ends up being the same. What you're doing is you're managing it rather, or it's managing you, should I say, rather than you managing it.

1:36:10The solution, and you mentioned your husband, and he is your husband. How many kids you guys have together? We have three. God bless you. You've got to outsource it to somebody and have them control it for you. That's the only way, and you have to literally go, you tell me, I'm just going to do what you say. And that's it. Because as long as you keep your hands on it, it's never going to be, it's always going to be a big challenge for you. So you can either be your husband. Now I will caution you. Sometimes spouses can be the best, and sometimes it can be the worst because if you, it's really hard to stop being coach and then be husband. And if it starts to cause issues in your marriage, then it's not worth it. And so what ends up happening sometimes is the spouse gets, look, this isn't worth it. I'm not going to do this with you anymore. We're fighting over it or whatever, or they push too hard because then now there's, they have their invested differently because it's like you're my wife and I love you.

1:37:11The other thing, the other way to do it would be to have an outside coach do it for you. And then just let go. And it's the letting go piece that's going to solve this for you. Okay. You have to let go long enough to you for you to realize it's okay to let go. And that's probably going to take a year. It'll probably take a year of you letting go before you're like, I'm okay. Have you been listening to the journey with Karen and I? Slowly. I have to say, I've not been, now that school is back in session, I'm hoping to kind of get back into listening to everything. Yeah, yeah, that's typically what we were just talking about that before we got on air. How much our listens skyrocket come September-ish because everybody's kids are back at school. Now everybody can get back onto listening. So it's wild how that falls out pattern. Yeah. So, you know, and I want to share that with you just because here you have a brilliant coach. She's arguably one of our best coaches.

1:38:13And she still struggles with this. We've been together now for almost a year. You were in her? Yeah. It's been almost a year. And I'm sure she would openly admit with you, it's still really hard. And I still, and so what I, and what a coach knows to do and what I do with her is I push her and I push her as hard and as long as I can and we're constantly talking. And I can kind of start to feel when it's really wearing on her and she's struggling with it. And then I'll just ask her, I said, hey, do you need a break? And sometimes she'll go, no, no, I'm okay. Let's push through. And other times she'll say, yeah, this has been a really rough couple of weeks. And I'm going through it. And can I get a little bit of break? And then I'll pull her back. I'll pull her back and relieve her of some of the calorie push that we're doing. And then, and then let her kind of get comfortable again. And but how you doing? I'm doing good. I'm doing good. I'm feeling good. Okay. Good. Can I start to push you again? Yeah. Okay. And then it's a push and pull. There's no, I don't have a blueprint of, oh, for this many weeks we do this. It's a team effort. And I'm constantly checking in with her on, we're on a break right now.

1:39:17Like we just, I just had to relieve her. I had been pushing her for a while on the calories. We got all the way up to like the high 2600 plus. And yeah, and that's really high, very, very high for her. And I had her there for a few weeks. And she's just like, man, I'm really, I'm going through it. I'm having a hard time. I say, okay, we'll pull back. And so then I'll pull her back to more like 2122. And then we kind of do that. And again, there's no like a mathematical formula of what it looks like. It's a lot of her and I working together through this process. And over that time she's gotten more and more comfortable. And the thing that always blows my mind when I'm helping someone like this, because I haven't been coaching in a long time. And so it's reopened my eyes with her. And it's like, it is wild to me how many everybody else is constantly telling her, how amazing she looks and how good she's doing. Yet she doesn't see and feel her feel herself that way. And so I get it. I get it. I know it's hard. But the value of outsourcing that to somebody is massive.

1:40:17And if this is something you really want to get through, that would be my recommendation is look into one of our coaches helping you through something like that, because I know how hard it can be. I actually did hop on pretty quickly after I talked with you guys and scheduled a coaching appointment. Yeah. And had a really good chat with Robert. Yeah. Super awesome guy. And we kind of decided, and then my husband and I decided, clearly I still have some things to work through in terms of my relationship around food. So we kind of decided that my first step is starting therapy again. Good. Going back to it. Good. Getting back in it. Have you really needed at this time of life? Have you gone? Have you done it? Yes. Oh, wonderful. Good job. Good job. Thank you. Good job. No, no, very good. You're doing good. You're doing good. I appreciate it. I'm not going to talk about my feelings.

1:41:18So this is definitely another push for me, but I think it's a very healthy one. And then my next step is once I kind of feel like my relationship gets better, I want to invest in the coaching. I love that. I love that. I think that's a wonderful decision because what's great, and you said something so important is that you're not wanting to share your feelings and that already is work that you're doing probably with a therapist. Is that you get more comfortable and good with that? It would be better. You'll be better coached because because that's what's great about a good coach is it's a little bit of that too. Obviously, it's not just the macros numbers and the programming. It's a lot of that. And so the more comfortable you are with sharing with the coach, the better they can be you better they can coach you. And so wonderful, wonderful step you are doing great. So two things just now that I know that. So I'm going to give you two things that I've seen that helps in experience, but also based on the data. Okay. So two things. Number one, Shane can play a nasty role in anything like this because this journey is

1:42:19going to be littered with step backs. There's just the way it is. There's going to be, nobody's ever gone on a journey to solve a challenge without there being setbacks. Everybody has them. The challenge, the real challenge is the shame, especially when it's repeated. Like I thought I fixed that. I thought I did that. Like what did I do? Like what's going on? You have to completely give yourself grace. And there's a club. There's one way you could do this. Now if you have a faith, then you can ask for grace from your creator good and he'll give it to you. And so I say do that. If that's you, then go on that. I don't have to give you the other part of it. No, I'm very faithy. Good, good. Then you go there because you know he gives it to you. Okay. And those of us who follow him. So that's very, very, very important. Here's the second thing. This is the data shows. If we get, we can get, you know, what we talk about our feelings and process things out. But what we need to also do is have a sense of purpose. Okay. That is not necessarily related to this goal.

1:43:19And so sometimes what the data shows what works oftentimes is that somebody says, okay, I have this new thing I'm going to go after. And I don't care what it is. It can be painting. It could be, you know, writing my bike. It could be volunteer work. It could be something. But aim your, aim towards something that gives you kind of this new sense of purpose a little bit. And what the data shows is it makes therapy way more effective. Because sometimes what can happen with therapy is we get stuck in this, because it takes to focus off yourself. It is. And what can happen is like, I'm trying to outthink, you know, for example, if I go and talk about my depression, I'm trying to talk my way out of depression and think about when there's an act part, that is a big piece of this. And so you just, it could be anything. It could be anything at all. You're like, oh, you know what? I'm going to start, I'm going to get into this kind of hobby. And you just kind of focus on that a little bit. It could be volunteer work, which that's one of my favorites. I find when I serve, man, it's like other things start to kind of melt away.

1:44:21So if you combine that with therapy, now you've got the like, you know, thinking, talking, empathizing, and then some kind of action. And it's not related. It's not like I'm going to, oh, just thing with my food or this thing with my fitness. It's, it could be, no, in fact, it's supposed to take your thoughts off of that. That's right. One of the things that can happen with someone. And the room in it exactly is you can overthink the food thing where you're focused on it so much. That's right. And that could be just as unhealthy, right? And so something that brings you joy and gives you a little bit of purpose. I think that's a great idea because I think during therapy, you talk so much about food that it does become yours. Yes. Constant wheelhouse. Yes. Yes. Not supposed to be. Yeah. One of the things we've started doing is I meal prep every single meal. So it takes the thought of food daily out of it. Yeah. Good. But just to give you an illustration, so Arthur Brooks is, did a really good author. I don't know. Do you know Arthur Brooks is? I feel like either you've said his name or I've heard it before. At least I don't want to podcast like three times. Awesome. Yeah.

1:45:21Just follow him because he's very helpful. Okay. He uses a great illustration. He takes a glass. He says, imagine there's a glass with a little bit of mud at the bottom and it's got water in it. And you go to therapy and you stir the glass. And so all this mud comes up in there constantly. He goes, another thing you could do is you could just are adding more clean water. And eventually the dirt starts to come out and you start to get more clean water in the glass than just dirt. So those are both the things. So stirring the glass is the talking. I'm thinking, what do I got to do now? Now, okay, I'm done talking. Let me have an action that gives me a little bit of joy and a little bit of purpose. And so when you combine those two in the data, it makes the therapy so much more effective. This is one of the reason why exercise is such a great combination with therapy. It just isn't great for those of us who are fitness fanatics. If I go to a therapist and they tell me the exercise, I'm going to be like, all right, let's go. We probably aren't going to vibe for what I need right now. Exactly. Yeah, very good. Yeah, you're doing good. You're doing good. But I'm hopeful that we can get through it.

1:46:24As I've learned, you think you can move through it and it's gone forever, but it's not and kind of always will always be there about how you manage it. So well, you got broken, sinful flesh. It's always going to be there. So that's just that's the story for all of us. So at least you're aware of yours. You're taking great steps already. You're doing a great job. Keep us in the loop. We'll be there for you when you're ready. Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate it. Have a good one. Hi. Well, I'm so glad she's working with somebody. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, that would be the other step. Oh, for sure. If you wouldn't allow one of my coaches and honestly, it's not a bad, she said something. I think that's so important because even a great coach, if you're not willing to share, be honest and open up. I can't coach you. I can't coach you, right? But with the flip side at them, what I said about doing something, this is why coaching could be so effective. If you're willing to share, and be honest, the coach gives you actions. They also empathize and can whatever.

1:47:25They're not therapists, but they'll give you grace and empathize. Our coaches are coached on grace because that's such an important part of coaching. But then they give you an action. Yeah. So you've got this wonderful combination of like, okay, this person understands and they're telling me to do something. It's very effective. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's my pump media. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPump media.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballad, maps performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased, expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. Detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos. The RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price.

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