William Keck

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1:03Spin values vary. See terms at casino.draftkings.com slash promos. Ends November 22nd, 2026. At 11.59pm Eastern time. Hello, everyone, and welcome. Episode 536 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson, and with me, as always, is my partner in crime. Mike Gibson, give me how are you? I'm doing all right, man, and you. I'm doing great. Yeah. You showed up in a parka today.

2:05I, you know, sometimes you got to do things like that. You address for the weather. It has chilled dramatically. Yeah. Since summer officially ended, did you see that? I've seen that. Yeah, it has passed that. But technically, it's just a parka. There's nothing underneath the parka. Yeah. It's like, assless chaps kind of. Yeah. Yeah. You just, nothing under the parka. My wife was not amused at all when you showed up. No, she's like, you think you're actually going to sit in one of my chairs like that? And I'm like, well, not to mention the fact that it's not a long parka, which kind of gave it away right from the beginning. Yeah. All right, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout-outs. We had Morgan McGuire jump out to our highest level. Look at that. Double M. Nicole Williamson. Hey, Nicole. Paula Steven. What's going on, Paula? Karen Cruz. The Cruz. Raymond McDumpfee. McDumpfee. Yeah. Pray Irish. Well, usually when you have an MC in front of it,

3:05I would say you're in the right ballpark. What if you're working on a barbed wire? What if you're working on a barbed wire? What if you're an MC at the club? That's MC Mike on the, on the turntable? Probably not Irish. And last but not least, Tammy Olson. Hey, Tammy. And then if we go back into the ball. This week we selected Jody. Hey, thanks Jody. So we appreciate the new support, the continued support on Patreon. It's amazing of it. Well, I also had a great PayPal donation from Anna Mayan. Look at Anna. So thanks to everyone. Thank you. So we have a new episode out on True Crime all the time on Salt. We're talking about Terry Fettner. He was stabbed to death in his Greenville South Carolina apartment during the weekend of Thanksgiving 2000. Dale was recently divorced and had moved into this apartment after his home was damaged by a suspicious fire. So there's a lot to get into. Make sure you check that out.

4:06And we dropped a new Patreon episode Saturday night. It's on John Hill Rich, a successful advertising executive father of two. He was leaving work when he was gunned down in the parking lot, structure outside his office. Investigators quickly zeroed in on their suspects who had connections to his wife. Huh. Always had those connections. There's connections to be made. And then on Thursday's T-Cat, we're talking about Michelle Kenny. She was a kind one man who was known to take people in who were down on their luck. When the certain neighbors found her stabbed to death inside her apartment, investigators utilized city traffic camera footage in the area to identify the suspect. I think you could ever be one of those people to take in a stranger. I think you know the answer to that. I don't even know why you're asking the question. I would love to be, you know, one of those people, but my security concerns prevent me

5:08from doing so. Yeah. You'd be doing pat downs. I mean, someone came through the door. Exactly. I don't even know what other searches you would be doing. Yeah. You know, they would involve latex gloves. That's for sure. It would be nice if you used latex on me, by the way. All right, buddy. You ready to get into this episode of True Crime All the Time? I'm ready. We're talking about William John Keck. After finding out his estranged wife, Angel, was pregnant with her fiance's baby, William Keck, plotted revenge. He was armed with a chainsaw and an assault rifle and he opened fire into the couple's apartment. You say chainsaw. I'm thinking this is like Texas chainsaw massacre. Well, that that seems like a very strange arsenal to have with you, right? An assault rifle and AR. People have those. A lot of people own those, but to have one of those and then a chainsaw.

6:09Okay. In 2003, Angel Chip was in her early 20s, living in Las Vegas. She was pursuing a career as a tattoo artist in her interview for the show Evil Lives here. She recalled that things were going well for her at this time. And I would think that would be a great place to be a tattoo artist. I would think so too. Maybe a little competitive, but yeah, probably. If you're a good artist and you make a name for yourself, I think you would do extremely well. Well, first of all, there's a ton of foot traffic right in Vegas. And I would think Vegas might be a place that people go, you know, I don't want to say once in a lifetime trip, but on a nice trip and they might want to splurge on something like a tattoo. Yeah. And if you're out with your buddies or your girlfriends, you know, on the strip, maybe you had a few drinks, you're like, let's all get a tattoo. Oh, I think that's a good point too. You know, there is quite a bit of alcohol consume. That's how you got your first one.

7:11Angels roommate met a young man named William Jung, kick at a party and invited him back to their apartment. Angels first impression was that William was good looking. What spurred her interest was the fact that they had a lot in common and he was artistically talented. She learned William was in the Navy and was on leave and visiting family in Vegas. They talked about his application to join the Navy. William said that in the section where he was asked why he wanted to join the Navy, he wrote, because I want to kill people. Now he played it off like this was a joke and angel laughed it off despite the fact that she was uncomfortable. It would make a lot of people a little uneasy. Yeah, because I don't believe that that's what the armed forces want you to say. You might believe it. I don't think they want you to put it down. That the reason you're joining is because you want to kill people.

8:12Angel and William had a whirlwind romance before he reported back to his naval base in Florida. She visited him several months later and he surprised her with a proposal and she said, yes, she was excited. You'd be able to see William more often and grow their relationship. If you had to do a whirlwind romance today for your life, what would that whirlwind romance look like? Different than back in the day, I'm sure. You mean after 30 years of marriage or we've just met in our early 20s? After 30 years of marriage. Oh, I don't know. I feel like the whirlwind part is maybe a little past us. We still have the romance there. But well, yeah, you sweep the floors every now and then and it really gets her hot. Yeah, it really does to be honest with you. That's how old we are. Yeah, I don't know.

9:12You know, a trip somewhere, something unexpected, probably would be the extent of it. So this is really a whirlwind romance. I mean, they meet, you know, he's proposing in fairly short order. Pretty quick. According to Angel, William seemed like he had plans in line and things he wanted to achieve. However, he was good at showing you what you wanted to see and not necessarily who he really was. And Gibbs, I really think there are a lot of people out there like this. Yeah, I agree with you. And I don't think everybody's a con person. I don't think everybody's a killer. I just think a lot of people, you know, they want you to see what they want you to see. Yeah, or they want to show you what they want to show you. I was like, how is that different than what I just said?

10:14But I do, I do think, right? A lot of people, you know, are like that. It's not all for nefarious means. Now it can be, oh, for sure. Right. When you're talking about a Ted Bundy or somebody like that, a few weeks after the proposal, William called Angel and told her he had been discharged and was on his way back to Vegas. She asked what happened. And he said, he told officials he was hallucinating and had spiders crawling on his arms. He cut his arms with a razor blade. So officials would think he was crazy. Well, that's one way to get them to think you might be unstable is to slice your arms because you think there's imaginary spiders on it. Yeah. I mean, they're going to have to do something, right? That's an extreme. If you think back to like the TV show, mash, right? Klinger was always trying to get out of the army, but he wasn't doing anything like this.

11:15No. Angel said that looking back on the extreme, he went to to get out of the military, it is now a huge warning sign for her. She told producers for evil lives here. He lied as easily as he told the truth, which made him very believable. That's really scary. And there's people that can do that, right? Yeah. There's people that can look you in the eye and tell you a made up story without missing a beat. But this thought that, okay, the warning signs were there, but people didn't realize it at the time. Now, looking back, obviously it's easy to see. I think that happens quite a bit for people. You get swept up in a relationship. How often do people maybe overlook some things that they're later going to say, yeah, that should have jumped out at me more. That should have been a red flag. But everybody knows what it's like when you have this new relationship blossoming.

12:19Yeah. Be like meeting somebody and then Tony, how smart they are. They're immense and they got this and that. Yeah. They're just totally swept off their feet or their BS meter shoots into red and a liar. I got to get that heck out of the speed dating thing. I don't even know why I chose to do this. As soon as William got back to Vegas, Angel said they were thrown into chaos with his behavior. He was arrested for a DUI and needed Angel's help getting out of jail. The show didn't provide dates for the DUI charge, but the Las Vegas Review Journal reported that William was arrested in late 2007 for driving under the influence. That was later reduced to two counts of reckless driving and one count of driving a police officer. The old driving the officer. Yeah. And normally it doesn't work out. I don't think it does nowadays, right? Maybe if you were in the 20s or 30s, maybe.

13:23Now it's not confirmed if these charges were related to or separate from the incident that Angel was referring to in her interview. She said she knew the DUI would make it difficult for William to travel and find work, but she convinced herself that they could still make things work. But as the month passed, William spiraled out of control. One evening, Angel came home from work and learned that William broke into an apartment at their complex. He obtained and used a chainsaw in the break-in. He was charged with malicious destruction of property. It's such a strange thing to do, right? I mean, you're going to, hey, babe. I've been arrested. I took someone's chainsaw and I used it to break into one of the apartments here. Well, breaking and entering is usually thought of as this kind of sneaky quiet endeavor.

14:27It's a little tough to be sneaky and quiet when you're using the damn chainsaw. It takes you five pulls to get it started. You know, if that happened, that didn't wake everybody up. Now, the cutting into whatever you're cutting into. It's going to be loud. When William was able to talk to Angel about what happened, he made the excuse that he was drunk and high and couldn't really remember what happened. He made her feel as if she needed to be more understanding and empathetic towards him. Yeah, I don't think so. No, I don't think so either. But again, you know, when people are very manipulative and they're good at doing it, can they make their partner feel as though, even though they're the ones that are doing all the wrong things, it's somehow their partner's fault. Yeah. I think a lot of people do that. And I think that's what William was doing here. Another disturbing incident occurred around the time Angel and William were moving.

15:29Angel and her sister went to pick up her cat during their final trip to the old apartment. They were concerned when the cat didn't come out to greet them. They couldn't find her in the apartment and all of the cat's things such as her bowls, litter box and toys were missing. They put up flyers around the complex and never heard anything. Angel was devastated. Yeah, well, that's bizarre, right? I mean, if the cat got out, that's one thing, but, and sad. But where's all the cat toys and litter box and things like that? Because the cat's not going to take that stuff with them if they somehow sneak out of the door. They don't have a little carrier that they loaded up and pulling behind them. No. I can just imagine how devastating this would be. I've mentioned it before, but my oldest daughter who now lives with us for a while, she has two cats. And I've really grown to love them. And I, she, I don't know how she would function if something happened to one of these cats.

16:32Oh, it would not be a good day. If she thought one was missing, sometime later during an argument between Angel and William, he claimed he took her cat out into the desert and shot her, then through the cats things in the dumpster. In the moment, Angel didn't believe it and thought William was just saying something horrible to her. Or she said in her later interview that this was another sign she missed of how cruel and heartless William really was. Yeah, true or not, what a terrible thing to say. Yeah, that's, that's my thought. It's one thing to not believe it. And I get it in an argument when things get heated. People say things to make the other person feel bad. But I mean, even in an argument, this is way over the line. Yeah. Uncalled for. You know, I have a closet full of clothes, but I tend to go back to the same things.

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18:34Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order in 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was true crime all the time. It's the best way to support the show. The final straw for Angel occurred late one evening. It was around midnight and she was lying in bed when William came home. Moments after he got in to bed with her, she heard a knock at the door. A police officer was outside. He said he was investigating a break in at a nearby town hall. William had tried to break in by shattering the glass door. The resident was a young woman who lived alone. She called the police and scared William off. William claimed he was drunk and he didn't remember which town home was his. He thought he was locked out. So he broke the door. Angel knew this wasn't true and recalled that William entered the house as if he was

19:35running inside the hide. Not like he was drunk. So there's obviously a lot of red flags here with William as it pertains to Angel. I think she noticed them later on in the relationship. She might have noticed them earlier on, but just again, when it's so new, I just don't know that you put the weight on some of them that she later would. But you should probably should. I mean, definitely red flags and I mean, to go from the chainsaw time and this. Pretty concerning, right? So William was arrested inside his home that night. Angel said, I believe that he knew exactly what he was doing. And he went there for a purpose. What that purpose was, I couldn't say. But I can guarantee that it was nothing good and likely could have been a lot worse. And that's usually the case, right? This guy breaks in to a town home where a woman is home alone, right?

20:39You can just go through all the different scenarios of how badly that situation could have gone. Now she was able to call 911, scare him off. That's amazing. She probably either saved her life or saved something really bad from happening to her. Yeah, it could have turned into more than just robbery, right? Could have been assault, sexual assault murder. We don't know what his plans were. Angel started preparing to leave the marriage. She found solace in her work and started spending more time with her co-workers at the tattoo shop. It was during this time that she met a man named Jonathan Lestel. Jonathan Scott Lestel was born on March 22, 1982. He grew up in Las Vegas with his four sisters in what was described as a loving household. Jonathan was a talented artist. His signature pieces were got in the style of famed director Tim Burton.

21:45It was to be a very interesting style because Tim Burton is a very interesting guy. Extremely interesting. And his works are iconic, but also a little out there you'd have to say. Definitely not mainstream. No. I mean they do become mainstream. You think about Edward Sizzerhand. Who would have ever thought that type of movie would be as big as it was? It was huge, man. Jonathan also loved horror movies and was fascinated by special effects make up. He was happiest when he was drawn or helping out his friends. So Jonathan and Angel had a lot in common. They both loved art, tattoos, and Halloween was their favorite holiday. What's your favorite holiday? You know that's a tough one. I think, obviously when I was younger I would have said Christmas. But now I think it's Thanksgiving. Yeah. I enjoy Thanksgiving. But yours. Festifice.

22:45I figured that. Yeah. I look forward every year to that first and you picked from you to wrestle. The feats of strength. Yes. But here's the thing, right? Jonathan and Angel both had troubled marriages. He was unhappy in his marriage. Although his situation was very different from angels. He had a three year old son with his ex-wife. Jonathan's ex-Christle told the Las Vegas Review Journal that he was a great man. When he walked into the room, he would make everybody smile. He loved his son. He was a great husband and a great dad. Angel tried to be a friend and give him advice. And Jonathan did the same for her. He eventually told Angel that he was in love with her and she felt the same way. They knew they needed to tell their spouses that they no longer wanted to be married. And they decided they wouldn't move forward with their relationship until they had done so. That's the proper way to do it.

23:45It's the adult way to do it, right? You know, stuff happens. It does. People fall out of love. They're not happy in their marriage. You and I have talked about it many times, usually in the form of cheating, but also then one person making the decision, they need to get rid of their spouse. Yeah. I mean, you want to talk about the adult thing to do. It's not to start the cheating and then later figure out how to get out of your marriage, right? Get out of it first and then develop a relationship and move forward with that relationship. That's the first way to whoever you're currently involved with. Yeah. And whoever you want to be involved with. Right. Fair at all. How good can a relationship be when it starts on the foundation of both people cheating on their spouses? Probably not going to be too good. I guess it.

24:46Some of them do. Some of them don't. But how could you not at least have a lingering thought that your partner is going to cheat on you because they cheated with you? Yeah. Yeah. It's a good, very good point. The next day, Angel met with William to tell him she wanted to end the marriage. But the conversation didn't go how she thought it would. It actually went much better than she prepared herself for. And when that happens, are you like, damn it? You really, I really feel like he wants to be out of this. He thought it was, he was going to take it harder or he was going to put up more of a fight. William said he also wanted to talk to her about something. He felt that the spark between them had been dwindling and he wanted to end the marriage. Angel told him she felt the same. She was surprised. But she had no reason to think William wasn't being sincere. So either, right, he sensed what was about to happen and he went on the offensive and

25:50he wanted to be the dumper instead of the dumpy. Some people do that. And that does happen. Or maybe he really was feeling that way. So over the next year, Angel maintained her friendship with William and continued dating Jonathan. And I think that's something that doesn't always happen. Not able to happen. People are very jealous. They're not happy because the relationship ended. But if he wanted to end the relationship as well, can the two of them, you know, end it and makeably and remain friends? I think it's always going to be tough to remain friends after you've been in a relationship like that. And some people do it. But some do. And if you can, that's great, especially if you have kids together. Well, yeah, that's even a bigger deal. Yeah. But outside of that, yeah, I think it would be hard to do. But also depends on the person you're moving into a new relationship with.

26:52Can they handle that? Yeah. Yeah, because that could be tough on that person as well. Right. In the summer of 2008, Jonathan finished and a apprenticeship and became an official tattoo artist. And this was his life long during his co-workers noted that he was more than just the talented artist. He also had a way of putting nervous customers at eat. That's probably important in that business. I'm sure they're like scared of that needle that's going to go in and out of them for about a thousand times in the next hour. Yeah, I do not have a tattoo. I have thought about it a couple of times. I do think I would be very nervous, although people say, I doesn't hurt as bad as you think it's going to, but it looks pretty painful to me. I think you need to get one of the old time tattoos where they take the hammer and they hit the needle, you know, that way. Or we get you a prison pass, you go in just for a weekend.

27:52Yeah. Because everybody wants to do that. And you get a prison tattoo with the homemade tattoo system that they have. That'd be the way to do it. Yeah, one of you skipped the tetanus and the hepatitis and just go to my local tattoo shop. Well, then you really would appreciate it. If I survive, yeah, I would appreciate the tattoo. In July 2008, Angel found out she was pregnant with Jonathan's baby. They were happy, but nervous. And I don't know that that's a feeling that a lot of people don't have. Right? It's exciting. It's a happy occasion. Yeah. But it can also make people nervous. Right? Are we ready for this? You know, at this point, they're not married. Maybe that factored into it as well. There's always the money aspect. Yeah. I mean, it takes your relationship to a new level, it takes your finances to a new level, responsibility, all that. Yeah. You're giving up a large chunk of yourself and you're devoting it to a child.

29:01That's essentially what has to happen. Soon after she found out she was pregnant, Angel got a call from William. He asked if she was pregnant and he was pretty aggressive over the phone. He said some cruel things to her and he threatened to shoot her in the stomach. It was shocked because she didn't expect him to lash out the way he did, but she thought he was just saying things to be hurtful. That is hurtful. Well, it's very hurtful. It's also illegal. Right? You can't threaten to shoot people. Right. But to me, this all goes back to how the relationship ended. She definitely wanted out, but did he really want out or did he just see the writing on the wall and think, well, I'm going to say this before you do. And did it make it worse that she continued to allow that relationship as a friend to move forward? Or is that what his ultimate goal was?

30:03He knew the relationship was going to end, but he wanted to stay close enough to her that he could keep his eye on her possibly. Angel and Jonathan celebrated Halloween together and I mentioned it, right? It was their favorite holiday. They were both at a very happy point in their lives. They loved each other. They're having a baby together. It was like, you know, and career wise, they were doing well. And also, Jonathan's divorce had just been granted. Everything was moving forward as expected. The next step was starting the process for angels to divorce by Halloween weekend. And Angel was 18 weeks pregnant and she already knew that she was having a boy and the baby had started kicking and moving. Oh, good times right there. Yeah, I remember those times, you know, it was 20 plus years ago, but when you put your hand there and you feel that baby moving around or kicking, it's one of the happiest feelings

31:05in the world. Yeah, it really makes it more real. Oh, yeah, absolutely. William called Angel shortly before Halloween. He was friendly, asked how she was doing and wish to a happy Halloween. She noticed he was asking a lot of questions that seemed innocent in the moment, but she later realized that he would use that information to plan the attack against her and Jonathan. He's pretty conniving. Yeah, he's very calculated, right? Everything he's doing. He's doing for a reason, but this guy definitely had a pattern, right? He would be friendly and then he would be aggressive and then he would be friendly again. On the night of November 2nd, 2008, Angel and Jonathan watched a movie together at their apartment. They went to bed around one 10 a.m. on November 3rd. Shortly after they settled in bed, they heard what sounded like power tools in the hallway

32:08outside their apartment. They ran out of the bedroom and saw a chainsaw coming through the door. Jonathan told Angel to call 911. And I can think of a lot of horrific scenes to kind of wake up to. Yeah, right? Number once you realize somebody's in your house, that's unbelievably scary. Another scary thing would be seeing a chainsaw coming through your door. I would feel like I'm in the middle of a nightmare or something. Maybe I didn't even wake up. Did I take too much magnesium before I went to bed or is this really happening? The next thing you'd be saying is, oh, I got a pee again because you have a bladder the size of a cashew. Not very big, you mean? No, it's not. No, but a scary thing, scary side. Jonathan moved towards Angel as the bullet started coming into the apartment.

33:10He tried to push her out of the way. William had come to their apartment in the middle of the night, dressed in black and armed with a chainsaw in an AK-47 rifle. He used the chainsaw to cut a hole in the apartment door and then fired 21 rounds through the hole before fleeing the scene. When the shooting started, Angel recalled following backwards and feeling like she was being punched all over her body before she hit the ground. The bullets kept coming and then all of a sudden it was quiet because we've discussed it, right? You fire, especially an AK-47. Inside of an apartment, it is going to be loud as all get out. And there's 21 rounds. It's not going to take very long, is it? Well, as fast as you can pull the trigger. It didn't really say, but I'm assuming this was a semi-automatic AK-47, not like you

34:11see in the militaries of other places in the world where they have the selector switch to make it full automatic. But still, if you just wiggle your finger back and forth, I mean, that's how quickly you can shoot. Maybe under 30 seconds. Yeah, very quickly. It's a squeeze out 20 rounds. But how long it did take, it would feel like an eternity knowing that those bullets are coming at you and you don't know when they're going to stop. Yeah, definitely. And then also this description she gave of feeling like she was being punched all over her body. Angel realized she was still on the line with 911 and was eventually able to give the address to the operator who stayed on the line with her until first responders arrived. A detected told angel that witnesses saw a red Honda Civic leaving the parking lot. She knew right away that it was white. And I'm assuming that the chainsaw might have at least given her an early hint.

35:17I would think so since that was his chosen breaking in building a tool. You got to think how many people do I know who have used chainsaws to try to get into somebody's house according to the Las Vegas Review Journal around one 10 a.m. A security guard in the apartment complex heard suspicious noises and came across a man dressed in black armed with an AK 47. He pointed the rifle at the guard who ran for cover and called 911. And I'm telling you right now if somebody points an AK 47 at you, you should get to cover. Drop, drop in a roll. Yeah, like you're on fire. I don't know. Try to get behind something heavy that might be able to stop a bullet because you know, that that's 762 round that comes out of an AK. It's no joke. Yeah. It's a serious round. And I'm sure this security guard probably wasn't even armed.

36:18I don't know if he was or not, but weren't likely he wasn't. And even if he was, you'd really don't want to battle someone with an AK 47 with your pistol. Yeah. If you don't have to, you're going to run away like you said, get coverage. Makes me think of that the great tailor shared in line from lioness where they're talking about what's the pistol for? It's to make your way back to your rifle. Yeah. I thought was a great line, a neighbor who asked to remain anonymous also said he heard the chainsaw and gunshots from across the hall. He saw William through his bedroom window, calmly walking to a red Honda Civic and driving away. The door had been sawed around the door now and he could see bullet holes in the walls, couch and ceiling. Jonathan Lestell was found dead from multiple gunshot wounds in the back bedroom. A dog in the apartment was also killed during the shooting.

37:21Angel was rushed to the hospital for life-saving surgery, give she had been shot eight times. Twice in the right leg, twice in the left leg, once in the groin area, once in the left arm, once in the chest and once in the right hand. And that's exactly what she was describing, what she felt. Yeah. Being punched, right? All over her body. Angel told the show, evil lives here. I don't think he anticipated that I would survive. I don't think anybody would think that after hearing how many times she was shot. Yeah. Most people who get shot eight times do not live. I would think the percentages probably would prove that out. I don't have any data in front of me. But you look at where she was shot and those do seem to be, you know, fairly survivable. Now, if you get hit in the leg, it depends on where you get hit, right? If you get hit in the femoral artery, you're done.

38:23You're probably going to bleed out and die. And she got lucky where she got hit in the chest. Yes. Had to. Angel woke up in the ICU on November 4th and learned Jonathan was dead and that she had lost her unborn baby. The fetus was struck by at least one bullet during the attack, per the review, during Angel said in her documentary interview, waking up to finding out that you're more alone than you've ever been in your entire life. I don't think that feeling ever really leads. Yeah. She probably went from her happiest time in her life to now this, the worst time in her life. She lost a person she'd love and she lost his baby. Yeah, it's going to be rough. When you wake up and you find out that you're alive, but these other very important people, one of which you hadn't even met yet, is gone from your life.

39:27And also including what I assume is her dog. Yeah, hers or Jonathan's, we don't know. But I'm sure a dog that she had cared for deeply. Angel told the police that she was separated from William and that before the shooting, he had threatened to kill her baby. So William was arrested about an hour and a half after the shooting at the apartment. He shared with his brother, police collected gunshot residue from his hands and confiscated some of his clothing. There's also found an empty box of rifle bullets in his apartment. And to me, this goes back to the chainsaw, right? The burglary was one thing because you're going to make a lot of noise when you start firing an AK-47. So using the chainsaw, you're not really looking for stealth anyway. But then he just kind of saunters back to his car and calmly drives off.

40:27It's like he didn't have a care in the world whether he got spotted or how many witnesses saw him do what he did. Yeah, I think he felt like it came there to do something. I did it. Now I'm going to go home. Well, and obviously he had to know, right, that he was going to be one of the first individuals looked at. William told police he was deeply in love with Angel, but dated other women after they separated. He claimed he was on various medications, but he did not think they affected him in a negative way. He was charged with murder, attempted murder, and battery with a deadly weapon resulting in bodily harm. Authority said that per Nevada statute, William would not be charged with the murder of the unborn baby because the fetus had not reached 25 weeks gestation and was not considered via. And to me, that seems like a very strange rule statute law.

41:31I feel like if you kill an unborn child in some type of shooting or something like this, you should be charged with that death as well. Especially when you come out and say, I'm going to kill that baby. Yeah, he meant to. Yeah. That was part of his plan. However, on November 5, Clark County, DA David Roger said lawyers in his office reviewed the case and determined they would pursue an additional charge of manslaughter killing of an unborn quick child against William. So basically prosecutors researched the definition of unborn quick child. And according to DA Roger, it is any movement of a fetus and a mother's womb. Now we know the baby was kicking. So definitely after the arrest, angels coworker Patrick Von Duh said that she had been receiving harassing phone calls of work.

42:32He told the review journal that when the shooting happened, William was the first person to come to mind. Who would do such a thing? And that's never good. Right when something bad happens and you're the first person who comes to mind to a bunch of different people. Well, that means that you're not a great guy. Yeah. And some of the things that you've done in the past have put a real stain on people's impressions of you. Now they're going to be like, I always thought that guy could have done something like this. Yeah, but what a kick ass name Von Duh. Guys last name was Von Duh. Well, so like that's a name to be a tattoo artist. Yeah, you're right. Not a bad name for a tattoo artist or like a Marvel villain. I think there I feel like there is a Marvel villain name. Well, there's something doom. I know it's not Von Duh. Yeah.

43:33Von Duh would be another good name for a cure online screen name. Okay. All right. That's I know that's an arena you dabble in. You have to have a bunch of different screen names for a multitude of reasons. By December 2008, Angel had not yet regained full use of her fingers, but she played the keyboard with her rock band Pegasus and her first performance since the shooting. She told the Las Vegas son, the way the artistic community has come out of the woodwork to help somebody, whether they knew us or not is overwhelming. And I think that's a great word to use, right? I'm frequently overwhelmed when we do some of these stories where you talk about the talk about not just friends and family, but people in the community who have no connection to missing individuals. In this case, someone who was hurt severely hurt in a shooting, people just they want to

44:35help. Yeah. Yeah. Good people out there. Angel said that practicing with the band was helping her regain use of her fingers and her arms and also helped her get out of the house. So what kind of therapy sessions right there? Yeah. I think it probably would be good therapy. She also expressed this may at the way she and Jonathan had been portrayed since the murder and said, I've been keeping an eye on the news. And quite honestly, this story has gotten so twisted and mixed up. I hate the idea of people portraying it as if we were adulterers. That wasn't the case. We were long since broken up with our spouses and we're working towards trying to get married ourselves. We were pregnant and the baby wasn't an accident by any means. That baby was planned. That baby was very much wanted. I can't stomach the idea of people thinking that we were lying or anything like that. Yeah. I think we were upfront about how the fact that they did tell their spouses that they wanted

45:38to be out of their current relationship before they got into their relationship. But it's to say even if that didn't happen, it still doesn't give somebody the right to go in and kill somebody and try to kill somebody else because they're not happy with the current state of affairs. No, it definitely doesn't. But I think this is what you see in many, many cases, right? The online posters, no matter what form it's in, Facebook, Twitter, whatever. I think it's the inclination of a lot of people to jump to conclusions and want to put stuff out there. Unfortunately, a lot of times it's really negative. That's true. Even towards the victim. And you know how you and I feel, it's okay if you want to be negative against the killers. It's fine. But to just assume that these people were doing something wrong when you don't know all

46:40the facts, I think that can be very hurtful. It can be. Right now there's a handful of our listeners are going, Mike, Twitter hasn't been around for over maybe two years. X whatever you want to call it. I haven't been on either one of them in quite a while. On April 17, 2009, William was ordered to stand trial on the murder and attempted murder charges. On May 8, prosecutors announced that they would seek the death pill. William went to trial in the summer of 2012. After a two week trial, William was convicted of five counts, including first degree murder, attempted murder and manslaughter killing of an unborn quick child. And I'll be honest with you, I've never heard that term before in my life. The defense suggested that William suffered from a mental disorder. William testified that before the shooting, William threatened to shoot her in the stomach and kill her baby. Prosecutors accused William of faking his mental illness.

47:43Witnesses during the penalty phase, including Angel, testified that William got an early discharge from the Navy by pretending to hear voices and harming himself. And she said he was proud that he duped the Navy and even had Section 8 tattooed on his arm, indicating a discharge for mental illness. I'm not surprised that his defense would attempt this and hopes to get the death penalty off the table. Yeah, I mean, it's not a bad thing to try. But I think the problem that William had is this record that people could speak to of, possibly faking mental illnesses or the things he did to try to get out of the army, the things that he did during his life where he said one thing to make people feel a certain way while his intentions were something completely different.

48:46During closing arguments, the prosecution said William intended to kill Angel, Jonathan, and their unborn baby when he went to the apartment in the early hours of November 3rd, 2008. He also believed Jonathan's three year old son was in the apartment, but he was with a relative. The prosecution closed by suggesting jurors might have a hard time imagining the fear and pain. Angel and Jonathan felt as they were being shot and played angels 911 call. The blast from the AK 47 right were audible in the recording. The 911 operator pleaded with Angel for her address while Angel and Jonathan screamed as they were shot. Angel said repeatedly help somebody help me please. Jonathan made a gargling sound, which was him choking on his own blood. Angel continued begging for help and the 911 operator continued asking for an address.

49:51Finally, Angel heard the 911 operator and gave the address. There's a that's going to be a tough thing to defend as a defense attorney after hearing that. Well, I think it's going to be very powerful for the jury, right? Very emotional, very powerful. So to your point, yeah, how are you going to spin that? I don't even know if it's possible. Other than to say, well, my client wasn't in his right mind. Pretty tough to say he didn't do these things. That's for sure. During the two-day penalty phase, William told the court he felt shame and remorse saying, if I said I was sorry, I would expect to be beaten. There is no sorry for murder. There can be no apology to a race agony. There can only be a tone, man, or intent there. The review journal noted that he was still facing charges and federal court for an unrelated assault at Lake Mead of a man he believed was hitting on his then girlfriend.

50:56This guy had a ton of issues with his temper to say the least. He had a lot of different issues, but that was definitely one. He was an aggressive person. He had a very aggressive person now. And I feel like what he said in court about feeling shame and remorse. I kind of go back when he met Angel at first, how he was a smooth talker. He knew how to say things. Well, I think he knew what people wanted to hear. Yeah. I think that's what he's doing here. I think it is as well, but I do agree with him that, you know, is an apology at this point really going to do anything? I would say no. I don't think so. First of all, the family's probably not even going to believe it, that it's real. The jury had four choices for sentencing, including death, life without parole, life with the possibility of parole after 20 years or 20 to 50 years in prison.

51:59And those are all very different sentences. And I can only see two that I think should apply. And I'm assuming those are death or life without parole. That's the way I see it. During closing arguments, the defense asked the jury to cross out the last two choices. Deputy public defender Ed Kane said, is quoted by the review drum. Billy Keck should never walk free from jail again. And that's such a strange thing to hear coming from the defense. In a dramatic moment, deputy public defender Jeff Banks berated with and said, how dare you Billy Keck do that to those people? Not again, not something you expect to come from the defense side. Banks continued what he did was horrible, terrible, and inexcusable. And no one in this room thinks otherwise. But Banks argued there were mitigating factors. The jury should consider, including mental health issues. He said, I'm asking you to lock Billy

53:05Keck up in a cage and throw away the key and let God decide when to take him out. I can see why the defense attorney said what they did. They're doing that thing where they're like, yeah, he's a he's a he's a bad guy. I can't I'm in fact, I can't stand him. I really can't stand him. So I think you guys should send him away. And he should be away in prison for the rest of his life. I don't think he should get the death penalty. I don't think we want to play that card. But I think you're right, Gibbs. I think this was very calculated. You know, we're going to come out and say as the defense, yeah, our client is horrible. What he did was horrible. So, you know, just cross those the lesser of the two off, right? He doesn't even deserve those. Those are too low. But we don't think he should get the death penalty very calculated on July 12, 2012. The jury sentenced William to death on September 10, the judge formally sentenced William to death and

54:05added 30 to 95 years of prison time for four other convictions, including attempted murder and manslaughter William apologized and said he hoped the sentence would help the victims and their families find closure. He then turned his attention to angels saying it's hard to express my remorse for what happened. And my main address now is for angel to know. I didn't want this to happen. I hope she knows truly that it's fully beyond anything I wanted to happen. I failed you as a husband and I couldn't protect you and I couldn't make you happy. I always love you. I hope every day you find happiness. It's kind of a bullshit thing to say. Yeah, that's my that was my exact thought. You have to believe that she was sitting there the whole time thinking, what are you even saying? You are so full of it. How can you say this was not my intention gives when you chainsaw a door,

55:05make a hole and shoot an AK 47 21 times into an apartment. There's your intention. It's pretty hard to say that killing people was not your intention. Angel left court soon after William mentioned her name and declined to comment after the hearing years later in her interview for the show evil lives here. Angel spoke about how the law still affects her saying the loss lives in you like a screen. You can't scream all the time. And what a description right you want to scream. It's in there, but you can't get it out. And it's just there all the time. How terrible would that be? Yeah, just a horrible way to have to live your life in something that she obviously didn't deserve. Angel said about William, the worst kind of evil is when it comes from somebody you thought you could trust. So you're asking me if I think that William is evil. I think he's the definition of it. And

56:08it's hard to argue with that. Also, it is in some ways I would think Gibbs even harder to take when something like this is perpetrated by someone you loved, someone you thought you were quote unquote, still friends with someone you thought you could trust. Makes you question your own judgment, I think. Well, you don't expect this to happen or to come from anybody, but you certainly don't expect it to come from people who are in your life. William continues to appeal his conviction. And it doesn't appear that an execution date has been set. So as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, I mean, there was a lot in my opinion going on with this guy. I don't know if he had any mental health issues or if he was as has been alleged kind of faking them when he felt

57:10as though he needed to, right? Whether it was to get out of the military or after he was caught for this, but I do think he was a real manipulator. And I felt like he's a type of person who is probably gaslighting his girlfriend or wife all the time. Narcissist. Narcissist for sure. Always kind of turning it around on the other person, right? Making it feel as though whatever is going wrong is there for a person who just refuses to take any ownership in the things that they've done. And he was good at love bombing her at the very beginning. They can hurt think this is the guy. Yeah, this is him. And also when things started to go bad, you know, maybe he would try to reel her in by being that guy again. And it worked, I think, for a while. But eventually she figured out

58:16who he was and that he wasn't somebody that she wanted to be with. But he couldn't even take that, right? He had to figure out a way to stay in her life somehow. And I really do think it was because he wanted to keep tabs on her. He wanted to know what was going on with this new man in her life. And then once he found out that she was having this baby, I think at some point he started putting a plan in motion to kill everybody. Yeah, I think that was the final straw for him. Yeah, that she was going to have a family with somebody else. But definitely a very evil individual. That's it for our episode on William Kack. We got a voice mail. You want to check that out? This is Eric. I might get a daily from Ottawa calling. I've actually called town east of Ottawa. So, there was actually a man that's like been staying and was found to see his

59:20sister, she was Robert. So far, I think 35 people are responsible for his murder. And I know you have a long list of five staffs have stowed so he's. But I'm just calling to I do it because it goes to cool to hear your case on that small town drama. Yeah, anyways, love you guys. Thanks so much for being here. You guys are awesome. I'll continue listening and you're putting that up. Love you too. And we will definitely check that out. Sounds fascinating. It really does. We appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike and Gabby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.