Where Does Confidence Come From?

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1:02If you don't like swearing, you should try covering my mouth. I need to come in really hot. Did you have a plan to become an influencer? I'm not an influencer. I'm an icon. Smart girl dumb questions. Serena fucking care again. Smart girl. Dumb questions. Can we all be fucking confident? This is Smart Girl dumb questions. I'm Neymaraza. And today I'm joined by the self-appointed Itz-Uts. Queen of confidence. Serena care again. Actually Serena fucking care again. That's correct. September 22nd is when your book is coming out. It's called Let's F King Date. F King. It's called Let's Fucking Date. It's called Let's Talk You Day. But why are you not allowed to have... You're not allowed to have... Fucking no. In the title of a book. It's been my whole brand. Is that a law? I mean, you can't sell it on Amazon. You can't, you need to have... You need to have an ostrich. So you're not... So I put a kiss. The subtitle has become the prize. Enjoy the ride and never settle a gas. Isn't that just so good? Isn't it roll off the tongue? It's really a book about confidence. More than a book about dating.

2:02It's really... Do you care about being liked? Yes, but SFK doesn't. Okay, so explain now the persona... It's not legally your middle name. Does it matter? I went to Duke University. And I was super insecure as a freshman. And I decided to tell everyone that my name was Serena fucking care again. Why? Because when I was in high school my senior year, my best friend, Delilah Dorsey, was crying over a guy. And I was just like, oh, like, and she was about to miss her final. And I was just like, oh, you're Delilah fucking Dorsey. Like, get over him. Like, go, go be a bad bitch. And it worked. Like, she just kind of like became alive. And he's to her final. Forgot about the guy. Found a new boyfriend. And I was like, wow, that changed her entire energy. What if I did that for myself? So it started again in front of my mirror and say it's myself. You're Serena fucking caregains. It just, I felt like it gave me the confidence I needed to start a new experience. It's like a unlock. If I go his name, I fucking rasa. Am I going to be like, wait, what's going to happen in my life? I just got wet everywhere. That was hot.

3:02Yeah. Okay. Name a fucking rasa. It's hot. It's fucking rasa. Okay. There are too much. Too much turning on. It's happening on this podcast. Well, we did meet at Gloria Steinem's house, which is pretty iconic. I'm even looking so iconic. I can't. And I completely had like a senior moment because I did not remember that we had met there because I met Serena Carrigan there. Right. And it was a little different than Serena fucking caregains. Well, when you're in the presence of Gloria Steinem, you can't really, you know, you got to, she's a star. She's the, I had to simmer down. Gloria Steinem is also coming on Smarkle Donbassian's podcast. She's amazing. All right. I have to jump in here because as you may know, the feminist icon Gloria Steinem actually passed away on September 2nd at the age of 92. I was meant to interview her on September 15th, which is the day that you're hearing this episode or at least the day that it's come out. I'm very sad that I won't be able to interview her. But I'm much more sad that the world has lost such a trailblazer. But the memory of Gloria Steinem or Gloria fucking Steinem lives on in all of us. Now back to the episode and the day Serena Carrigan and I met in Gloria's apartment.

4:04And by the way, we're going to start bleeping all these were words now. So if you were covering your child's ears, you can release it right now. You said something about how your favorite interview was two of those who said that they prefer face timing because it means you're paying attention versus in real life. I asked them like, how is face time different to real life? And they said, it just makes you feel more like with them when you're on face time. Even more than real life. Yeah, because you're like doing stuff together, like maybe playing roll blocks together. It's now, it's now, it's when you're with them. Everyone's on their phones. The way that that stuck with me is profound. I actually remembered that quote. I don't remember anything else from that day. I'm super curious because we live in a time where it's something like 57% of Gen Z want to grow up to be influencers. That's compared to 41% I think of the overall population. This is according to research done by morning console in 2023. They did the same study like four years before that in 2019. It was like 59% of people wanted to become an influencer. So why do you want to do a percent of people really change their mind?

5:04I want to talk about like if that's really the future. I want to talk about your path to cultivating this brand persona with the empire that you're in. And I just want to like get inside of what that is really like and talk about confidence, but also talk about confidence lived externally and how that ways or doesn't on your interior life. It fully does. It does, right? Yeah. Absolutely. So is Serena f***ing Carrigan a persona? Is it you? Did it merge at some point? Who is Serena Carrigan? Who ametic glorious items house versus Serena f***ing Carrigan? Serena Carrigan who's sitting right in front of you, but she kind of maybe swayed back and forth depending. She's someone who's extremely sensitive and only child wants to be loved and wants to love. It's almost like that sensitivity is like was too much and too fragile and didn't feel safe. So I really needed armor. I really needed a layer of protection that I was a bad bitch and I could be funny and larger than life. And I can make a sidewalk my red carpet and that's what SFK did for me.

6:08And so the issue was that I think Sinmem's I lean too much into the persona where when I started dating there was like people men couldn't get in. There's no vulnerability. There's no vulnerability. I was like I don't need you and they're like okay if you don't need me like what are we doing? Why are you going to be me? Why are you worrying about the state? So it was about learning to be able to let go, to not walk into a room and feel like I had to say I'm Serena f***ing Carrigan because I would do that. Yeah. I think there's wonderful things about having that ulterior persona. I think that it can be really helpful but I think it's also important to just show up as yourself. I think for people listening to this who are like is this woman like this? But for now, it's literally whatever. I actually think this resonates with me less for like my smarkel-dumplushions is like my whole ethos. It's kind of how I am but I have a nickname. I know me. I know I'm I. Okay. Everybody like when I was like kid people like knock knock, no me do you know me all the things you can imagine. No me, no me is what people call me at home.

7:08And my close friends and like people a day like people who are like really close to me call me not me. And then I have name out which is like a work etc. And there was always like a little bit of a difference like if you if I'm having an argument with you and you say to me, no me instead of name, I will it endears me in a different way. But I think that a lot of us who have nicknames or have or exist in different worlds struggle with this idea of like where am I projecting versus where am I. And then like at some point you become the thing you're projecting or does the thing you're projecting like proceed to you like I think both I think or some of us could even hold you back. But I think eventually like S.A.K. gave me a lot of confidence to build a community, build a brand, write a book. Like I think there's there's aspects of her that I tap into. But I think as you get older that vulnerability that you're so badly trying to like shift away from is actually your superpower and it brings you closer to people that lets you fall in love. Like there's whenever you're vulnerable on the internet you cry online like someone's like, oh my god, thank you for doing that right. So although there's so much of it everyone's like crying on the internet.

8:11Nobody's eyebrows are moving. It's all very confusing. Like the Botox culture has gone high. And I think there's a lot of performing vulnerability that happens like vulnerability is not something you say or perform or words or even like stories you share it is like a feeling you know it when you're doing it. So I imagine that you know when you are serena f***ing carigan and it feels real and you're serena f***ing carigan and you're pretending right. How does that fit with authenticity culture? I think that serena f***ing carigan is me. It's just a heightened version of me. I feel like I am a very authentic person. I don't know do you authentic people say that? I don't know. I just say who I am. We can observe ourselves to oblivion. I've always thought when I was producing shows there are two types of people who are really successful in podcasting. There's like people who are really authentic and really f***ing unaware when the cameras are on. And people who are really inauthentic but hyper aware. Right. Both of those types of characters on like those two quadrants of authenticity and awareness are able to have very successful careers of longevity because they can keep their character up.

9:19Either because it's true to them and they're not at all embarrassed. Right. Or they are like able to put it on every day. Right. And be aware of it. And where would you put yourself and not? It's not about the way I'm being perceived. It's just about me feeling good in my own skin. Totally. It's for me. It's just it's really a reminder that like I'm a bad bitch and I can do anything and I can crush this interview. Like that's like the S.F.K. mind set. It's your can high five. Let's go. Let's go. You can't crush this and really crush this. But that's what it is. And so I think that being a woman who says I'm stirring a f***ing carigan can be very abrasive though to someone. And I can almost come off as arrogant. I'm not trying to do any of those things. It's more for myself. It's a dialogue. I think at the root of confidence that's what it is. It's really being able to talk to yourself in the mirror to yourself the way you are the way you would a best friend. That's really all it is. Like you love your best friend. Do you like her every day? Did she piss you off? Did she use your shirt without asking you like what the f***? Like yes, absolutely. Yeah. But I think at the core of it, your best friend lost her job.

10:20Gawk hosted by a guy or was feeling shitty about herself. You know exactly what to say. And that's like the ethos of what I am doing with S.F.K. is just being that best friend to myself. I love that. I am not a woo-a-girl. I'm not. But when I read the thing about the mirror and talking to yourself in the mirror and you suggest talking to yourself in the mirror using the second person, like you are a bad bitch. You are a name of f***ing Raza. You can f***ing do this. Whatever it is. Because it's your best friend. That's, yeah, she's right there. So I thought about this one time in my life where I did do that. I froze my eggs. And I remember like looking myself in the mirror. And I was like 33 years old. I'm like myself. I'm giving myself shots of like men of pure. I'm like mixing the s*** like a camera. I feel like a science girl. Love, you know, addicted. Yeah. And you've done this. You talked about dressing rock. And you were younger. You do yours at 28. Right. So I'm like mixing the s*** and I look at myself in the mirror. And I'm like, you know what? I am a freelancer. Like I make documentary films. I have a video journalist in the New York Times. I'm like hustling my own more.

11:20I'm a bad bitch. I'm a bad bitch. I've been, I was in my relationships all through my 20s. Like never single basically from 16 to 32. Damn. And I was like, and I'm putting away like 15th grand to go do this and do my thing. And like, I'm name a f***ing raza. I kind of had that. I mean, I'm, I'm importing your f***ing in that. But like love the f***ing. Yeah, I know you do. But I, I was really like, I'm doing this for a future partner with whom I want to like co-create a life. And I'm taking this like big bold step to do this. Like if I meet somebody who's there, I'm like awesome. And if I meet somebody who's not there, I'm like, great. We're not on the same path. And I looked at myself and I had this entire f***ing dialogue with myself. Wait, that's the only time you've done it. I think that's the only time I've really done that. My love. We gotta start doing it. You have to start doing it. You come into this world alone. You leave alone. You are the one constant that is always with you throughout your life. You have to nurture that relationship the way you would any other relationship. But there it's like yours. Sister your mom, your friends, like your colleagues. Like me, like your guests, like you're constantly uplifting everyone else.

12:23And the most important person I feel like you might be neglecting, which is yourself. Thank you for that advice. I'm gonna talk to myself, Mara. I'm gonna make you show it. I'm gonna just stop doing this podcast. I can go talk to myself in the mirror. See you next week on Smart Girl. I'm gonna question that again. Can you really quick? No, really. Hey bitch, you're hot. Love you. Bye. I don't really do things. Like everybody has hacks. Like before I speak, I do the power pose. You know when you like do starfish. You don't ever do starfish and bad. But do starfish, like in the bathroom and jump up and down so your voice gets to your diaphragm. I wouldn't much prefer to talk to myself in the mirror. Listen, it doesn't even have to be the mirror. Like if there's like a puddle on the sidewalk and I see my reflection, I'm just like, like I like give it a little wink or like an adventure. Oh, no, I know. What's going on? Not at all. The opposite. I just feel like it's important to acknowledge yourself. Like when you actually see the reflection of it being a second person, it's much easier for you to compliment that person. Or just like acknowledge that. I love that. I mean, and this book is written like not from the perspective of a psychologist or a child. It's just a baddie. A person who's lived it and really gone from being super insecure to super confident and putting yourself all the way out there. Which is like, I think proof in the pudding that you have gotten confident.

13:25It is for the poor baby. You froze your eggs at 28. What role did that have in your kind of confidence journey? It made me feel like a motherf***ing man. Really? Yeah. Because why? You talk a little bit more. I mean, listen, I know that egg freezing is not 100%. In fact, nothing is done in sure. Sure. Okay. Let's just go back to my response from that. You can add like a little over third that says that. When I went in at 28, I remember the doctor asking me, so like, what is your family planning? Like how many kids? And I just burst out in tears. And I was like, how many kids with who when I go, I can even get a like on hinge, let alone know what that future looks like. And I was really emotional. I was taking it back with how intense it felt to be asked that because I really had no idea. It's hard for you to imagine a future if you don't know who the future is with when it comes to family planning. So I ended up freezing my eggs and when I woke up from the surgery, I do remember feeling like, is this what a man feels?

14:25Yeah. And I didn't even get like an insane amount of eggs. I ended up actually freezing twice. It's which is super common. I did too. Yeah. But it didn't matter. Yeah. And I was like, that was the thing that was weighing on me. Yeah. Was that biological claw? And you did the thing that you could do. I actually think, if you can't afford to, if your work is paying for it, it's a great idea. But I also think there's like an industrial complex around all things fertility. Of course. All things hormones. Everything in America, the food supply is bad. Like, let's just give everyone a big like, this is bad. Like, let's just give, it's like a band-aid to the fucking problem. Yeah. Yeah. And it's very expensive. And it's very expensive. And ultimately, let's see if we can figure out a way for who should bear the cost of like, really are changing, gender roles, are changing timelines as a society. But I do think it's such an interesting conversation right now because have you been following this AOC thing? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love her. She thought I was on Instagram. So, AOC, Congresswoman Alexandra Ocasia Cortez, age 36, recently freezing her eggs, there

15:28has been a huge amount of like, lashing out. And I'm like, why is this a conversation? Oh, when I was one ex, I can't even tell you the men I triggered when I posted about it. Men. Oh my goodness. Like, insane. They're very upset about it. Because they don't like women having autonomy over her body. I really don't understand. They think they don't really think that's it. I feel like that's like an extreme form of myself. I think they feel something about it really triggers them. I feel like you understand this more than you think. I feel like you feel like I'm like asking you some political question. I'm not. You are in the culture. Like, you were still in the culture. And right now in our culture, a couple of things are happening. You are seeing this backlash against AOC making a very reasonable decision to preserve her fertility planning. You also have a trend of like, people being upset about this. Men, women. And then you have another trend of like, men looks maxing, magging, like doing, like basically what is happening to men right now is like what I think all teenage women have gone through in terms of like body dysmorphia, lack of confidence, etc.

16:32Totally. So I just feel like some weird penapply of like shit happening around us as a culture. And I'm wondering how you make sense of it as somebody who has millions of people engaging with your content. How do you think the culture, this cultural moment is different? I feel like when I froze my eggs, I was taken aback by how triggered people were. I think it has to do with, you know, a woman's place in the home. And like, there is something about independence and autonomy and like this delaying your, what's natural. I don't know because I also knew so many women who are in committed relationships who are freezing eggs because they don't want to have their second or third or fourth kid immediately. I also think that we're seeing more and more women being leadership roles and climb the rings of like their careers. And I think that that's also triggering for men. I mean, it's changed a lot. Like we're educated. We're smart girls asking dumb questions. Yeah. I think that there's, it's funny. My mom actually when I went and froze my eggs was like really, it was really worried about

17:36it. Oh, really? Yeah. I think she was just like, everything has a timeline and like, why are you taking this risk with your body? She's like a maternal reaction of like, it's a, it's a medical risk, even though it's really small. I'm like, maybe like having any kind of medical procedure. She's like, why don't you just go find a partner? And my dad was like, great, good. Seems like this is what people are doing. Fast forward to one day she calls, this is such a brown story. My mom like calls me into the room. Like I stayed at home with my parents house. I had every meal with them for two weeks. I'm so happy I did that because my father passed away not long after. And I love that like two weeks of being in my parents house. That's so sweet. My mom calls me into a room one day and she gives me like a stack of cash. She's like, it's just like cash like real cat to pay for the medicines of the thing. And she's like, she was like, I don't like what you're doing. I think it's scary. Okay. But I want to support you because I know it's hard. It's really sweet. Which I thought was so sweet that I had to go to positive like a frickin' like drug dealer. I'm like, I wasn't sad. I wasn't sad anymore.

18:37I was a little bit nervous. I was like, but I love that. And I think it can be very, it's, it's a huge shift. People don't know how to absorb a shift in society. For sure. My mom always told me, I was gonna freeze my hands. She was like, when you're old enough, like you're gonna freeze your eyes. Like don't worry about, you know, the biological clock. Because I think that she felt that she didn't have like when she met my dad. Like it was kind of like a, either we're having a baby or we're breaking up. Yeah. And so I don't know if like he was right. I don't know what that was like, but I think that that was like she had the anxiety, the urgency of like, I need to find the guy. And you know. Yeah. And love my dad. They're such great friends, but they got divorced years later. And it's like, well, what has she had been able to freeze her eggs? I wouldn't be here probably. So I'm very happy about the decision. But it's like we're like having that choice feeling empowered, not feeling like you have to rush, not feeling the scarcity of mentality, which I think so many women feel in the dating space. Totally. And I love actually your mother is like a kind of unsung hero of this or a song hero actually of your block. Like she comes out amazing.

19:37It's Argentine. Yeah. Woman. Who is a doctor and then worked at MTV. And I was like, what kind of career trends? That is a pivot. We love that pivot. And met my dad and then never dated again after they divorced. So it's been in my whole life. Yeah. There is a lot of data on this. Like women tend to remarry more than women 100%. And people used to be like, oh, it's because nobody wants a woman who's been tainted or no, it's because men are needing mother f**kers. And they need a mother. And by the way, I say this as an eating mother f**ker. I have a needy mother. I'm a needy one too. This is such a needy bitch. But I need a bitch. No, because women are like, I'm done taking care of people. And men are like, I need to be taking care of things. I need some taking care of things. Of course. I think the way that you talk about feminism also in the book is really interesting. We met at glorious time. So it's appropriate. But like, there's parts of the book that we'll get to where you talk about feminism in a really kind of modern interpretation of it that like blends this idea of extrude patriarchy, but also let them pay. Yeah. And we'll get to that. I think it's actually really interesting and novel. But before we get there, your mom and your dad, did they want you to become an influencer?

20:43I never said out to be an influencer. I wanted to be a filmmaker. I mean, my first film when I was 15 and it was about a boy that broke my heart. And I showed it at my school's film festival. One best film at my high school's film festival. And it was just. I was just. I was like, I'm so feelc-able. Like I literally was like, this is who I am. This is like what my journey is. Grant and my mom was in television. My dad was also a filmmaker. So. I directed like an episode of Homeland. Yeah, yeah. But he was like a big, big, different, different, different director. Yeah. Now you call yourself a nepotbaby or other people call you a nepotbaby and you embrace this. I wish I was more of one, honestly. You're not the fear couple. I really wish I was. Thanks, sad. No, I really wish I was. I know my mom. No, my mom created all the shows at MTV. She was like, you can't go on my street 16. What did you do like on? She did my super speed 16. Yeah. So that was my mom's show. I begged her for a speed 16. She said, absolutely not because you're not a brat. So I really wish I could be more of a nepotbaby. Absolutely. I was living a terrible. So I definitely was around that world and I just wish there was more.

21:44Honestly. I wasn't nepotbaby enough as serene. Literally. It's completely, completely. That's not only complete. I would milk it, honey. I would. I would. So anyway, I followed in their footsteps for sure. But I think that I always like this is what I want to do. I want to write films about women I want to empower women. Before I went to Duke, I worked at Refinery 29 during the heyday in 2016 when it was like the sickest place to work. I saw that people were starting to leave Refinery to go build their own brand. And that was very interesting to me because I really thought I could monetize it. I thought I could make shower curtains that said, like, I love me. Like, you're so f***ing hot. I never made that. My dad was in thrilled. He was like, how are you going to make money? And my mom was like, listen, I had you. I was at MTV. I couldn't just leave corporate America because I had a baby. So I want you to go. This is your time to try. And to explain to the pandemic happened. So I'm alone in my lower east side apartment. I am single, jobless. And I'm like, I wanted to be a creator. So it's time to create. I literally called the head of the department at Refinery 29.

22:47He was like, I was like, I'm quitting. I'm studying, you know, and he was like, oh, where are you off to? And I was like, uh, it's a bull at my f***ing empire. And he laughed at me. But I was a wrong was I. I had no idea what that empire was, by the way. No, but you felt it. I think when you can't get it out of your head, you know, you got to do it. And also what's the worst thing that can happen? You didn't try. That would be the worst thing. But your dad was worried about it. Just because, yeah, it's funny though, because he's a filmmaker. So he does freelance. He was worried about the economic security of it. Or he was worried about the impacts. Because obviously we live in a time where like, what happened to him, engineer? It's like so. They would never let me be a child star. No way. I begged. And so I was like, you begged to be a child star. Oh my god. Are you kidding me? Healer it off. I was like, I need to be here. You have to go to four years of acting classes. And then we'll bring you to an audition. So I did that. And I did the audition for GoDeeGoGo when I was the voice actress on that cartoon show. So technically was not on camera. Oh yeah. Roode. But anyway, I was that for a season. I still get paid for visuals for that show. Oh, we love visuals. I was like, oh, I'm Alicia.

23:48Oh, yeah. Oh, this is panilla. See, I'll have panilla. See, but could you help me? I see. You'll have to me. Meñicima. So is Doris cousin. Our prima. Oh, her prima. Her one's perfect for one season. Your dad won an eBay bidding war for you. Yeah. This is one of her NEPO baby artifacts. Yeah. It is a juicy couture diary. Yes. From when you were held. Probably like nine, eight, nine. And yeah. And just in case you're worried about the woman who talks herself in marriage, she didn't just bring this of her own accord. I asked her to bring this to her. Oh, I would have though. I was so honored. You asked. No one's ever asked to see it. Really? And you said, when you came in, she's actually this is Doris. So she comes in and she's like, you know, this is my first diary. This is my first hand job. But I was like, wow, you gave a hand job to this diary. I wrote about my first hand job. I was like, there's nobody in it. There's no house. There's no potassium. What do you want me to read? I just want you to choose something. Oh my god. Because we can get a little insight into. Look at this photo of my parents. Oh my god. And they're really young. Stunny, you look like your mother. Yeah, I look really like your mother. And my dad's calling. And your dad's complex. Okay, here we go. Sorry. Tell me what would you like. I don't know. Just it shoes. Like random.

24:48I'm going to choose a couple of different ones. So 12 year old Serena, just so we can get a little bit of insight into. Well, this is, I think, failed child star future icon. Serena. Carried. I don't want to say even failed. You reacted to the word failed. That's fair. Listen, the best thing my parents did for me was let me have a childhood. I was so mad at them. I really wanted to be, and I said to my dad, I really want to be famous. He's like, that's not a career. You need to have a talent and the skill and become really great at it. So I did the writing thing. But the best thing with it, I had a childhood. Like I cannot be more grateful for that. It is so unnecessary to be a child star. You shouldn't be working. You should be vibing. Okay. This is when I was 15 or 12 year old vibes or 15 year old vibes. 15. I had sex with Chris and guess what? I'm in love with him. It's a huge secret. Chris has a huge dick and is a big dick. Crazy. Well, poetic. Wow. 15. Oh my gosh. Okay. I want to show you something a little younger. Wait, you're, this year you're going to love this. It's so famous to me. Where is Chris? This I was about probably. By the way, in the book you would change everyone's name is, but in the diary it's

25:49real. Did you change the name? Did I? Some names I didn't change. I'm sorry. Well, Chris, he's still probably has a big dick. I wonder if he's still a big dick. He's going to be so happy about that. Defamation. Climb coming. Okay. What do you mean who would be upset about that claim? Okay. This is when I think I was about 10 or 11. This is your going to love this is so this is glorious sign in with love this. Right? Okay. Wow. It's been forever. Many things have happened. Let's just say I wasn't the prude Serena at camp. For starters, I hooked up with Jesse. We went far. We both went to second. This is the hand job story. Okay. I went like this is how you have a hand job. You did not go to the diary. Can you just give a hand job to the diary to examine how that would not be good? Do not give hand jobs like this at home. I'm not good. Okay. Okay. Ready? I didn't think it was a big deal, but just to be safe, I told him not to tell anyone. Both of those things turned around completely. Everyone knew the teachers found out called our parents. Now apparently I'm a slut. It was a disaster totally.

26:49I don't understand. When a guy hooks up with many girls, he's called a pimp in a good way. Underline good. When a girl hooks up with many guys, she's called a slut in a bad way, all caps. Huh? Before I thought hooking up was cool. Now it's slutty. How did we get here? Jesse screwed me over. He told everyone. I think the worst part is that my parents don't trust me. Like my dad does, but my mom gets all suspicious. I guess I have to write her a note. Oh, wow. So drawn. I'm on you dead. I guess. You're so good. Right, you're so good. I just feel like that insight is very clear. Because men are called pimp, women are called sluts. And I got back to school, and I remember every guy in the hallway was going like this to me and making fun of me. And Jesse was like, the cool guy and like got the hand job, even though it looks like Squidward. I remember really shook me up. Yeah. I noticed immediately the difference. Right. I felt so ashamed. Yeah. But I kept giving hand jobs, don't worry. Little cliff hanger will be right back. So your dad didn't want you to do this was economically, it's not that viable.

27:51The average influencer, I know you were not an influencer, you're an icon, but the average influencer makes less than the average nurse. Do you know that? I do. And so how did you make it into money? So when I worked at Refinery29, I noticed that they had a really big problem which was all their content was free and they had no product, like no tangible product they were selling. So all their money was dependent on advertising, like branded content and investors. So it was a very hard thing to sustain. And I remember thinking, okay, if I leave, I'm going to have a product. And that's how I came up with my card game. If it's a fucking girl, let's fucking date. Let's can play. I knew that I had to have some kind of tangible product that where I wasn't dependent. You also made this like Instagram series where you did 50 first dates, right? Called Let's Fucking Date. Think about this. Pandemic happens. I'm sitting alone in my apartment and I remember just going live a lot on Instagram. Like everyone was doing. It was like a thing. And I felt so alone. My roommate abandoned me to go with her boyfriend to Connecticut.

28:51So I was like, fuck. I decided to make a dating show where I'd go live on Instagram and I had a producer of Vette the Men. People would send in like guys for me in a day and everyone wanted to date me because the world was ending and I was an icon. The producer would vet them and I would go live like with my ring light in my living room. And then my producer would text me being like, let James 1, 2, 3 in. So I would. And we would date for 30 minutes. And I did two backspack dates and then I did an hour with the fans bringing them on. What do we think about the guy? Then the ex-girlfriend would come. The mom would come in. Oh my God. It was crazy. It was a lot of drama. Did three seasons, bumble-bought episodes, whatever. It was so great. So from there, because I had to break the ice very quickly with these fans because I didn't know them at all, hence why I created the card game. Okay. So the card game came out of the card. These card games, let's fucking date. Let's fucking go. All the things. Let's fucking fuck. And you had an audience to sell them too because otherwise you would just have cards. Absolutely. And I'd die already. There's this perception that everyone just starts a product and it's perfect. And it's a piece like I really was like, okay, people were asking me for the questions I was asking these men. Yes.

29:52I thought of the game. I thought it would be really cute. I ordered 250 dacks. I said, if they don't sell, it's not a big deal. They were super cheap to make. It's paper. They sold out within 24 hours. And by the way, it was just let's fucking date to start. Then I started making more than I was like, oh, let's do another iteration. So it took time. It doesn't happen overnight, but I think you just have to listen to your gut with the product. So here's my things really interesting about you. So you build this independent business and this is kind of like a 101 for anyone out there who wants to be a creator and influencer and icon as we would say. Yes. You put yourself out there. You start making something. This is the most important thing. I think people don't get start making something. You don't make something. You have no feedback. I'm telling you the first episodes of my live eating show were so cringe. Oh, yeah. It's cringe when you look back at it, but it's cringe until you can monetize. No, totally. And then you start building an audience and then you're like, wait, I have a community. They want more and you're giving them what they want, giving making products. Then what I think is interesting is there's a second act of your career that happens like post pandemic where you get a series deal with peacock. And you're writing a book. So all of a sudden it's like more traditional media ecosystem comes in to kind of like eat you because they're like, oh, we need young audiences.

30:57Oh, I don't think that I was being eaten, but I'm very I love that you said that. I mean, you know, I mean, I do love eating. Okay. If you look at that first era of like YouTubers, a lot of like the early to resign you people like Marcus Butler, Connor, Franca, et cetera. They had this like imagination in 2014 that they had millions of people watching them on YouTube. But they were like, when I get on Netflix, of course, I'm going to be a star. And so this is propelling thing for them, which was ironic because when I got maybe on Netflix that they did, their audience would not be there. The audience was in that conversation, that community, et cetera. I'm curious like what you felt in making that transition to like in, you know, fast forward now eight years later, when we kind of saw that and we kind of knew that was it's still important for you to get the TV show, get the book. I like the fuck is the money so much better like talk to me about why doing the traditional media things is a good idea for people who have built their own sustainable businesses online. Well, I think it's really interesting because now what is a traditional media business like everyone's on TikTok.

31:59YouTube creators have been on studios. Yeah. So we're seeing a lot of influencers and creators now in that space. So I think there's a lot of blurring of the lines. Yeah, but peacock, a subsidiary of NBC Universal is different to this, right? In whatever name you want to give it. Listen else. I always said, when I was at Duke, I didn't say I want to be influencer. I always said I want my own TV show. I want to be famous. That's what I used to say when I was at KBS. And now I wouldn't say that. That's not, that doesn't interest me at all. I want to do what I love and I love telling stories. For me as a creator, I think it's a little boring to just talk about myself all the time. I'm having a great time doing it with you right now. Yeah, to say. But picking up my phone every day and like this is what I'm eating. This is what I'm wearing. I don't find it very challenging or interesting. I think the challenge of writing a book, I wrote a movie which I cannot wait to send to you. Oh, I want to. Because I feel like you'll eat that shit up. But it's like, that's what I'm actually interested in doing. I don't know if it's because that's what I wanted to do when I was 15. No. But I do think that when Peacock called me and was like, we're doing a creator program. And you're going to be able to go through the green light process.

32:59And if you get green light, you got to make a show. I mean, when you go out and do that stuff, do you read bad reviews or do you only read good reviews? Or do you not read any reviews? Everything you read everything. You all read everything. Do you know? Yeah. And I actually like really, I'm not, by the way, I want you to review the show and give it a good review. But I like reading bad reviews. Not just because I learn and all that, but also because I know that then I'm reaching people that are beyond my friends and like people who already like me. So if you're not getting some, hey, you're just not big enough, I think for sure. I think criticism is totally valid. I think that even with that Peacock show, I read the criticism and I think it's part of the course. What is your advice for people to deal with rejection or to deal with like people not liking them? There's no one that could evade rejection. It is truly a part of life. Like everyone's going to get rejected. Everyone you know is going to get rejected at some point. Even the people that you think are like you put on a pedestal. I think the way you're never going to be able to evade it. But I think there's a way for you to not let it puncture you and puncture your armor and realizing that like there's a lot of exposure therapy.

34:00The more that you get rejected, the less it stings. Totally. To I also really fundamentally believe that every time I've been rejected, it really like took me to a different reject. It redirected me to a better place always, always, always. I think there's like also a learning I took from your book, which is like you are going on these dates and you were, I think you called it like pre-rejecting men. Because you were, you thought they would reject you or you thought that you were too much or whatever it is. And so like, I think there are two lessons I kind of like took from that, which is like one, don't pre-reject as an armor to being rejected. And two, don't reject yourself. Just look at yourself in the mirror and say, sorry enough, I'm carrying it. Amen. Okay, I want to ask you for like three rapid-fire advice questions. Okay, what is your advice to aspiring influencers, icons, say the word? It's very difficult, but you really have to let go of how you're being perceived. It's really hard, even as someone who does it. I really think like as much as you can really let go, that no one's fucking thinking about you. Because you really aren't. It's like what your mom said, like the zit on your face is nobody else's problem but yours and no one else looking at it.

35:01Like they're just seeing your whole face. Okay, number two, what about for reluctant influencers? Reluctant icons, that people who have like kind of come in to been thrust into the light. Maybe they did it, someone famous. Maybe they were a child star and now they're done with that chapter. Do you have advice for them? I think at the end of the day, like time is the most precious resource you'll never get back. So what do you want to do with your time? What about advice to parents of like this 57% Gen Z population that wants to be an influencer? What's your advice to their parents? Okay, there's two ways of parenting advice. One is stop trying to be best friends with the years. Stop calling your kid your best friend. I think it's, sorry, cuckoo banana. But in terms of the whole influencer thing, I think it's just, I think it's like any other profession. Why are you asking specifically about an influencer and a parent? I thought your advice was going to be like give them a childhood. Oh, oh, oh, like just like if you have a kid who's like jet alpha or Gen Z who wants to grow up to be in the squad. I don't know. I don't know about that. That's really interesting. Like I would only even know if I'll put my kids on social media.

36:02I feel like it's, there's too much surveillance. Like kids like aren't f***ing up. There aren't like blacking out anymore. They're not even going getting drunk anymore. They're so afraid of being filmed. Like there needs to be that preservation of being a kid again. And I don't know. I'm not a parent. I'm sure it's so hard and you're like, here's the f***ing iPad. Yeah. I'm sure. But I was much as I can. I would not. Well, yeah, I don't know because I want to be influencers. It's really hard. It is really hard. Or they want to be a doctor. Their quality of life is very different. That is actually what I think about a lot. And we're all projecting all the time and on the screens. Like how does that technology change our human experience? And when everyone's got their own channel, like who's watching? I mean, I find that like less and less. And maybe that's why I'm going after the peacocks and the book. It's like I'm craving the experiences where I'm not showing my life online. Yeah. And you have a big one, which is you have a boyfriend who is not so on the internet. Right. And we're going to talk about that after the break. More after the break. So now I want to...

37:11Doesn't wash your lucky jersey. Oh, that smells lucky. Hilton's unmatched hospitality can keep up with any superstition. Even a marching band wake up call it 555 and 55 seconds. Hit it! When you need a team that will do whatever it takes on game day, it matters where you stay. Hilton, for this day. Good things coming for us. Like ukulele strings, boy band members. Oh, yeah. And PayPal paying for. No fees, no interest, no impact on your credit score. Just the flexibility to pay the way that works for you. Strum it, hum it, pay it in four. Download the PayPal app to get started. Subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com slash payin' four. Paypalling NMLS 910457. Talk about dating. You've written a book about dating. It's really I think a book about confidence. But you said that you read the old books about dating. Mm-hmm. So all of them. All of them. Okay, what are they? Why men love bitches? Getting him to I do the rules.

38:11Okay, so I have not read these books. Oh. And I want to know the summary of these books. So can you give me like the one line summary? The book, the rules. These very strict rules you have to abide by in order to get a man to marry you. Okay. The book getting him to I do. Similar. Why men love bitches? I love that book. I just felt like that book is very much about not being a dormant. To men like not being a pick me not being like trying to be really likeable, which I find is really interesting because I think now the opposite problem is happening, which I faced. Like the two cool to care you call it, right? Exactly. That or being so assertive where you're like, I'll make the reservation. Like I'll handle this. I'll make the plan. Like I'll pay for the bill. Like, let him let him literally let him. It's interesting. I think that now that women are making their own money and they're making way at the table. Like they have to be assertive to make these things happen for themselves. They're entering like that on dates and it's kind of it's working against them.

39:11That's how I felt for me because I wanted feminine energy. Right. I don't call it that anti-feminist. That's why I didn't use those terms in the book. I use like controlling versus trusting. Like instead of controlling a situation you trust that it's going to unfold that the man's going to come pursue you. I didn't use masculine versus feminine energy for that reason that I was afraid that people will get confused because men can have feminine energy and women. It's just it's. Yeah, you don't want to be canceled so you can use the terms. Correct. Exactly. That's right. That's right. Exactly. Okay. Can we do a little paddle round? Yeah. So I'm going to redo the rules from the book. Oh my god. Okay. I did not actually read the book. The rules. So this is an AI interpretation of the book. The rules. If there's any inaccuracy on it, it's not my fault. It's cloths. Be a creature unlike any others. Green. You're going to you're going to approve the rule. Okay. Great. That's the fact that you are. I see a pack of clothes that men would be looking for because if they are usando masculine clothes, they would not give you a

40:12They give you a long painkillipid. Don't ask them the badzas, sometimes they are on court. Exactly. Cause they would have utilizealnd驔itary medicine again plus they areonteffi vaxalndiyasame. How to use feminine lightening? Expand from a swift knitting discipline to you, so there will be a samen I'm doing this, what I'm saying, these books are a little antiquated. Don't stare at a man. I actually disagree. I say to I f*** them. I f*** them. I know you have a completely different thing. Yeah, okay, great. I mean, don't I f*** them into oblivion, but yeah, give them a little. Yeah, I feel like, I don't know about the I f***. I feel like it's an I-vitation and I'm interested in my profile. That's also because I- That's on brand for me. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Don't meet him halfway or go Dutch on a date. Absolutely. Absolutely. A man need to pursue how much money do you spend on your hair, your nails, your skin care, your outfit, men lily shower and they're ready. Like it's so f***ing annoying. They put no effort into the wrap and that's fine. They don't have to. I'm so passionate about this. I can't even believe this is up for debate. Yes, they are refunding you for your prepaid.

41:13For your care today. For your care today. As you check. By taking you out on the date. I also think, by the way, it's like the waxing, everything. Oh my goodness. But the whole also biology of like men like are like wanting to spread their seed or whatever. Yeah, they're a man is taking you out. There should be some stakes and not. Don't call him and rarely return his calls. Yeah, I disagree. I disagree. Definitely return his calls. Also, is he calling you? Let's be honest. Probably ducks. I love a caller. Love a caller. Love. I don't know. I only date caller. I don't know if he's afraid. I feel like of the phone. Yeah, but as we love a phone, we love a phone call. Always end the phone call first. I don't do this, but I actually think it's good by his. I agree. I agree. Get off the phone. I talk. I talk so bad. I wish I had that phone call just like he's talking like, Hey, Serena. Yeah, hello. Yeah, I'm going to be say goodbye. Say your big name. No, I like it. I wish I had for the phone call. That would be amazing. That's great. Don't accept a Saturday night date after a Wednesday. I find this is bonkers. Yeah, I don't. Like what do you even, I don't even know what I'm doing. What day of the week is it? Always end the date first. Okay.

42:14So. I agree. Two drinks in Dutch, guys, two drinks in Dutch. Nothing good happens after a second drink ever. No marathon dating, please. Don't see him more than once or twice a week. I feel like you moved in with your boyfriend like with 24 hours. I did. I think that, but I do think that when you first start dating two weeks, two days, I always say like your best friend, your friendships are the blueprint. Would you see your best friend more than twice a week? Three times in one week is a lot. I think capital. Okay. No more than casual kissing on the first date. I agree with this. Just listen, if you sleep with him on the first date, power to you. I've done it many a time. The reason why I suggest don't is because I think that the oxytocin really f**ked through their head and it's difficult to perceive. Like what? Do you actually like him or you just attach because of the hormones? And then I think that you can't really totally agree. You need to be in a place of observing. It's hard to do that when he's inside. I mean, we'll just play back your 12 year old self, which is like I love what Chris and I love him. Like I said, I'm in love with him.

43:15That's not you're not in love with him. It wasn't just the biology speaking. But yes, exactly. You're 100% right. It's oxytocin. And the anticipation is so good to put it in positive terms. Like absolutely. They're like, it's exciting. It's anticipated. So you don't know them. They don't need to be inside of you. It's just too much. It is actually like a whole thing. It's really close. I have to say that is the thing that like straight men do not understand this. The intimacy of someone being inside of you. It's a lot. For first date, you've just met them. Like, I think let's slow down. I recently asked a friend this about like whether men are really counting dates or like counting currency. Because I have a theory that men don't have like a countdown clock. Like it's one day, two days, three days, four days. But that they do have like a calculator of like, I've spent this much on this woman. And she hasn't yet put out. Do you think that's? Oh, I don't know if that's true. I really think that's true. I think that's true. So I said this to a friend. And this friend dates women. And she said, yes, boys talk to her like, she's a guy because she dates women. And they say that to her. I've like, I've spent like a dinner and drinks and she's done out those men.

44:16I'm telling you, these boys are keeping a tab. Honestly, dating is expensive, but that's not our problem. Okay. Don't open up too fast. Be more specific. I don't even think I'm an overshare. I think we don't need to be talking about our exes on the first day. I think you need to just be yourself. Because you can't change yourself. But also it's, they're not your therapist. Hawn. You be yourself. But like, let's like, keep it light. I think for first aid, keep it light. Yeah, keep it light. You know what I used to do? What? I would go on dates with guys and I'd be like, don't look at my social media. So I was so afraid of the SFK. I'm like, what do you think they would do at Effeter every day? Of course. As soon as you said it, they had good luck. Were you dating on mine? Yeah. On your image and everything. And then of course, like, the way that my boyfriend was because he saw me, so I thought it was so interesting and invited me to his podcast. That's how we found him. Yeah, he used podcasts as a path to marriage, which is interesting for you. I know. Should I be doing that? Why am I wasting my time with this bitch? You already made it. I got a man. I get some single man in this chair. I think you should. Wait. Okay. Last one.

45:16I love it. They like waited until like number 47 in the rolls or something. Do you see that chapter in my book? I did. The chapter in my book is called How to Date a Married Man. Yeah. It goes step one. Don't. Karma is a bitch. And then they say, even if you're engaged or married, you still need the rules. Do you think that's true? Like, you're a book. Do you feel like your book still applies? Like, you're not making the feelings pay for everything after you have the podcast. No, absolutely not. No, no, no. And I disagree. And that's also why the role sometimes gives me anxiety because I'm like, I'm not following you. So I think you have to be yourself. You have to find someone that you feel safe with and not overthink this so much. Of course I pay for things. It's like the dating chapter of your life over. Are you engaged or you married? What's none of those things? Okay. So you're dating. You're in a second last chapter in my book is called Marriage is Not the Finish Line. I haven't gotten to that. But it's because I can tell you. I'm having a cant trick reading of your book. I love that. I'm not going to let it finish. I love. I mean, honestly, the whole point of the chapter is just basically, I think that we're sold this idea that we have to like, race to this finish line that's marriage and the wedding and the ring.

46:17And I'm not sure that that's, I think that's the starting line. I love that you talk so much about how you like, you reach for like, Bride's magazine when you were a kid. You were obsessed with this idea of getting married and now you've kind of like, oh, that. I think it was just the dresses or something. I don't know. I used to have a swax in plan. What's that? A secret wedding action plan. Okay. Surprise wedding. I don't even know if that was for surprise or for secret, but the idea was basically like, I found it really weird kind of around, I want to say the age of seven or eight when I noticed there were so much weddings. First of all, Pakistani weddings are five ceremonies. Right. It's a whole production. I love it. It's a whole thing. Literally well. And we're obsessed with the dual and the bride. Yeah. We're obsessed with the bride. But I was like, I don't want anyone asking me this many questions. So I'm going to have a surprise for secret wedding. So I would just basically invite everybody for like a birthday and then be like, oh my God, I'd be like, my 26th birthday that has long passed. I would invite everybody and then just one day be like, and we're going to married. No for play. Just action. And then out.

47:17You know, I'm not going to do that. But I like that. It's cute for you. I like that. You're still going to do. You don't want the five day like or deal. I love that. I don't. Maybe for you, Sarita. I know. I'm very proud of Pakistani, honestly. I'm pissed. I'm seriously. Or Indian. I'm not feeling like for Felix to become Pakistani. You're not. You're right. He can be a little fusion man. Okay. And Felix on this podcast, he invites you in with the goal of dating your present player, right? Not at all. Not at all. He said no. I don't believe this. I do believe him. Girl, it really wasn't like that until it was immediately. It was crazy. I didn't even wear mascara. I got a glam for your broadcast. I'm not saying anything like I just wrote up being like, yeah, we might f***ing dates, Sarita. You're not married yet. And you want to Pakistani. I'm just saying things could happen, Felix. I'm not saying you thought you're really going to be able to do that. No, but he didn't think. Really? No. You're going to be able to say it really. I'm going to edit this through. It was fun. I was flying. But he's six years younger than me. So that was, so yes, you find this out on your third day. Okay. So there are three kind of gaps that you would feel like have that I see. Oh, not in your relationship. But between one another, there's an age gap.

48:19Six years. He was 23 when I met him and I was 29. Okay, that's crazy. He was living at home. That's why we moved in so quick. Everyone loves that home. But you mean his parents home. Okay. The second gap is a wealth gap because you are further along in your career, et cetera, And then third is an alcohol gap. He was in a drinker. So age gap, wealth gap, alcohol gap, which one is the most challenging to navigate in your relationship? Well, can I just say something before I answer that? Yeah, those are the three gaps, but on the flip, both only children. Parents both got divorced when we were two. Our moms or foreigners were bilingual. Our dads are artists in American. We're both born in the 22nd. We both grew up in New York City. So we have a lot of culturally, we have very similar values. We're also both Jewish. So it's like, there's more of that for the gaps. The biggest one, I think the age was the biggest because it spilled into the finances and the career stuff, which I think it is. I don't think that age matters at all. At all, he's so mature. Yeah, I think it matters. I think it's more just like I was 29 about to turn 30.

49:21I have the card games. I had the peacock show already. I had a full career. And he was like, I'm a year out of college. I have a podcast that I don't really want to do anymore. And like, I don't know what I'm doing next. It's very different in your life. It's totally different. But you felt confident that that time, Delta didn't matter as time went on. Correct. And it doesn't. And he now has his own venture capital fund. Like he's doing amazing things. He's grown up so much. Okay, okay. Calm down, mommy. What's happening? I'm dead. I love that. But I literally, I'm telling you, I'm telling you, the one rule I had with dating that was, it was I was like, I'm never f***ing dating a younger guy. Ever, are you kidding me? They can't handle me. They can't handle my success. Like there's no, I won't even get it. And I thought, my name, you got this. I'm sure you got this feedback. Cause I get this a lot. People will be like, you're probably gonna end up with an older man. Because you've had to live experience you've had such a career. Which I think has kind of misogynistic a little bit. Right? Like it's like, why do you need a daddy? Because they can't handle you. I can't handle you. It's like, it's low key like a disc. I don't like it at all.

50:21And only women get served that. Yeah. Bullshit, of course. So of course, that's what I thought. I mean, I can think of a lot of men that I'd be like, you're gonna end up with a younger woman. Well, obviously, it's part of the course. So everyone told me that. And I was like, I agreed. So on my dating apps, I would not even set it to my age always older, a year older beyond. Think about how many men I missed out on dating. So of course, I ended up with the younger guy because it doesn't really, it doesn't matter. It's maturity level. He's like 40 years old. He doesn't even drink. He doesn't go out. Like he's literally an old ass man. I did think that the discrepancy was with the financial part of like, I wanted to go to like, a coma to a five star hotel. And he was like, yeah, like I can't do that yet. But what I saw underneath it all was the values of him being super ambitious, working really hard, like wanting to provide, like paying for dinners and stuff, but also being honest about when he couldn't afford something. That's me. That's sexy. Just a man who knows. I mean, instead of making some decisions, instead of overcomensating and like trying to keep up. And like, no, he was just like, like I remember like for my birthday,

51:21he got me like a bracelet with a diamond. And just like he really, it's just very sweet. It's everything's so intentional, so thoughtful. And I realized that like I could look at my friends who were in their 30s who were getting married or like had partners that were so much ahead and compare. But I also could realize that like, why, why compare? Why? And it's not just what he's doing. It's also that you were like ready to receive that. I wonder also if like the whole egg freezing thing that we talked about, like all that like also settles your mind, right? Oh, I really was. I couldn't do it. I was like, I'm dating a man six years younger than me who's not in a place to have. I mean, all my friends were starting to have kids. Like it's a conversation. Obviously like now luckily, like people are having kids later, but it would be a very different conversation if I didn't freeze my axe. It's such a blessing truly. I think it really allows you to have the age gap that you did before. And it's so in something else that we have in common is that we're six years apart. And our parents are also both six years apart. In that direction or in the other days. My mom is six years older than my dad. Really? And then his dad is six years older than his mom.

52:22But that was also something else that my mom couldn't freeze her axe. Do you see what I mean? Yeah, of course. Cougar icons. Two of them. Slay. We love. We love. Felix is a privacy guy, right? Like he's a private guy. Yes. Is that attention? Is that a gap? I do feel sometimes this pressure to show our relationship. Like be like, well, you know, like people care about it. It really stems from seeing other couples do the twirls and the make-outs and the kissing and the sunset. And like, if your man doesn't do this, like dump him and it's like the cutest thing ever. And I said to him, like, I feel this pressure to like put out that content. And he's just like, it's just not my thing. Like, I love you. I support everything you do. But I just don't want to be like making out in a video. Yeah. And I think that at first it pissed me off. It really did. And now I'm like, that is so fair. And I also am like, I wonder if like, do I need to be, do I need the validation of the internet for my relationship? No, I don't. Like, we're great. And also I sometimes feel like the couples that do tend to overcompensate by showing how

53:25amazing their relationship is, like deep down maybe there's some things that they want. Yeah. I never know. I never like to say it was I never like to have this version of what's going on with other people. Absolutely. Absolutely. Two people know what's going on in their relationship. I don't know if someone knowing on what's going on, someone else is really like the two people together couldn't tell you the story. Couldn't agree more. I just think the performance is necessary. Yeah. I'm like so into PDA, like I'm constantly into PDA. But I do not like DDA digital displays of affection. Okay. You just pull me in. I just make you know. Oh, I'm planning as a smart, all dumb questions coin edge, but digital displays of affection, like forever permanent on screen for everybody, people outside. It's like, whatever, like I'll make out in a gondola. Like I by the way, I have to have sex on a gondola going down for the spring and the better stay in the club. This better stay in the club. This better stay in the club. But I will say, but like I would not make out with someone and put it on the internet. All things equal. I am obsessed with PDA. I would do DDA, but I also, but your man won't do a DDA with you. Just like he not into DDA. You know what? Let him let him let him.

54:26Is there anything that didn't make it in the book that was left on the cutting room floor because Felix said so? Um, honestly, let me think. Give me a real answer. It really was honest. I just didn't want it to become like my relationships the best. I really wanted to be honest with the drinking stuff too. Come on, there must even one thing that got taken out of the book. That was too juicy to be in the book that you took the fucking letter you out of the book. That was not my choice. I know, I know, but I'm just saying no notes. I love cutting room floor moment. Come on. I know. I want to give it to you so bad. Oh, oh, oh, okay. I have something for you. Sorry. It was kind of dilly-dallying. Felix says OCD. So I feel like I didn't really want to go into depth about that because it was just like not my thing to share. That's not your story. Yeah. Are you okay with us keeping it in here? For sure, absolutely. Like he's obsessed with showering clenliness. I'm like so type. You want to come to that? Yeah. I mean, I shower. I mean, do you sometimes? No, I keep talking. I do.

55:26I think the meaning of like showering after an airplane, which I never used to do. I'm like, I can't imagine. I was like, like, like people were doing in the pandemic when they were like stripping when they came off the grocery store. It's like me from La Guardia. No, literally. I'm like, I can't take it off. Now I can even imagine. Oh my god. He makes a hat by socks off like everything. Like everything has to go off. And by the way, your suitcase, you have to, you know what you do. You have to put those chlorox bleaches. You're going to tell this is going to be such a king for you guys. I'm going to make your sex life great tonight. I agree. When you come back from there for it, you put the lice all cleaning wipes at the bottom of the wheels. Okay. And you roll it over and it rolls. Uh-oh. It's a little ASMR roll and a little bit like, you know, he's going to like that, right? This is for play for an OCD boy. I used to date a guy who had an OCD. We lived together for a couple of years and he was like afraid of bedbugs, which don't exist in San Francisco where we're living. And like every time I ordered something, which is all the time, he would put it in the freezer. I'm like, why do you think the factory from like a sauce has? No, yeah. It gets to a point. It really does. You know what?

56:27We all have our, we all have our quirks. We all have our quirks. And it's definitely, and I will say this about Felix, knock on wood. Where is there wood here over there? There. I have to go. You have to fly like the fly. Yeah. And it's like, you'll see why. Ever since we've dated, I've gotten sick maybe once. Oh my God. It's over. Yeah, because George. Yes, I wash my hands so much. I love it. I hope that Felix keeps you in good health. He does. And but although maybe you'll love him in sickness and in hell. I, I will see. It hasn't happened yet. So no sickness to be had. Um, do you? Oh, wait, I, and every episode of Smarkle, dumb questions with a question. Right. I asked my guests. Okay. A question they have that they don't know the answer to. You've been afraid to ask out loud. How do airplanes work? How do planes fly? Yeah. You don't understand. It is so easy. Yeah. And then they just. They go with the wheels. Yeah. With the things that are like, yeah, it's just incredible to think about. It is incredible that we like do not know. Like we do not actually know but we trust.

57:28Right. A hundred percent. And also like what else could fly? Like, why does it have to be that? Like, I mean, paper airplanes. Like, why can they make everything first class? Like, why? I mean, that is a thing. Also, that's a better question. Why Charles Ports just asked this question when he was like delayed on, I feel like it was Lufthansa or something. He's like, how come there are not enough baggage handlers? Like, there's always this much baggage. Right. How have you ever been in a situation where like you get to your report and you're like, there's no bag. And also like the jet bridge, like when they make you take the like the dinky one and he throw and you like, walk down the stairs and get on a bus. Why? And then you're like, going through. No one wants to go on those. Nobody wants to do that. After a flight, they can't figure it out. So anyways, there's a whole series we can do just on airplanes. Serena, f***ing car again. The book is called Let's F***ing Date. The card games are called Let's F***ing Date. Let's f***ing play. Let's f***ing go. Let's f***ing go. All the things. You didn't want to say f*** did you? Oh, let's f***ing go. Is that an LFF? Yeah. Lufafa? Situation? Lufafa. You need to play with your... Oh yeah. Souter. Okay.

58:28I shall. I shall play with my shooter. Okay. You're amazing. I really appreciate you having me on. This is so fun. Well, we'll continue to talk because now that I know that we met a glorious item, so far. I mean, how did I not know? But it's actually... She was the main character. Thank you so much for hanging with me. This was so fun. And for reading to us from your diary, we appreciate you. That's it for this episode with Serena Carrigan or Serena f***ing carigan. I think she gives some f***s like the right amount, not too many, not too little, just like the right Goldilocks amount of f***s given. And she may have inspired me to use my mirror more often. I hope it was an interesting portal for you and to today's creator economy, the dating economy, the confidence economy, whether you're a nepotbaby, nepotbaby light, or just like the rest of us. But I'm so curious what you thought. Would you want your kid to be an influencer? Would you want to be an influencer or an icon as you put it? Leave us a comment below. Please leave us a review, ideally with five f***ing stars. And definitely subscribe to this show wherever you are watching or listening to it. It helps us so much if you do that.

59:29And please, please, share it with your best f***ing friend. If this episode was too much swearing for you, you can share another episode instead. This episode was produced with Melissa Lee Gibson, Sanjana Niggum, and Shino Zaki. It was edited by Davy Chin, engineered by Jamie Van Corp, mixed by Fernando Arruda, and shot by the amazing Desta Wunderrad in Wonder Studios and Manhattan. I'm your host, name Araza, and I'll see you next week for an all new, smart girl dumb questions less swearing. When Fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's Fall Drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy to layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon Fall lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're

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