When Your Higher Power Is a Mini-Dachshund with Natasha Ruby

0:00One of your co-hosts in here. Now you're already listening to a podcast where people share their feelings, so why not hear authors over share on my other podcasts behind the book cover? If you're ever thinking of doing a book, if you just like honest conversations, go get behind the book cover wherever you get your podcasts. Now back to our show. Hey everybody, welcome, welcome. I'm Lisa Smith. She's Anna David. She has. She is. She is still here. And today we have an amazing guest with us. It is our new friend Natasha Ruby. She is the author of the upcoming Memoir Latter-day Psychosis, amazing title, by the way.

1:06Joins us now to talk about, you can talk about leaving Mormonism, surviving psychosis and addiction and finding her way back through art and sobriety, which is just beautiful. And dogs. And dogs. And first welcome Natasha. Welcome. Hello. Thanks. We have to tell you we were just talking before we started recording that she really got us with her. The title of her pitch, which was her higher power is a mini dot show, which I loved on so many levels because of what, you know, all the discussion around what a higher power is is not what it can be, what it can't be, whatever. And, you know, what a kind of a long list of whatever your higher power is, it's great. So Natasha, dog is God backwards. Exactly. Dog is God backwards. Okay. Good point. And I'm a cat person and I say that.

2:08And I'm not an animal person period. You would be if you met my dogs. I like people's animals. Like I love Anna's cat. Anna's cat is outrageous. I have a conversion cat. Like you become a cat person around my cat. Sounds like that's your dog. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I think he wants to be seen. He hears us. Yeah. Oh, bring him on. Yeah. Oh, okay. I see it. Thank you. My old assistant used to say, you know, you don't even see dogs, you know, I'm dog blind. Like I just don't see them. They, they're cool. They just blend into the background. Yeah. Yes. You know, and yet I will say walking around L.A. So my friend and I had babies at the same time and we would wheel our cribs around L.A. With her dog, she seems to think it's amazing. And in L.A. everyone's like, that dog is a mate.

3:09We're like, hi, we have the cutest babies you've ever seen. No. Dogs. They talked about her dog. They talked to us a little bit about you, about the book. And your story. Right. So I started writing this book, Latter-day Psychosis. It didn't have that name back then, but 15 years ago is when I experienced psychosis and I felt like I need to share this story. But at the time, I was too in it and had it processed and had time to get perspective. And in the aftermath of psychosis is actually when I started drinking. So I was 21 years old. I had, I'd waited till the legal drinking age. But it was also when I realized I didn't believe in the church I was raised in. And when I realized I didn't believe in the church, I thought, well, I don't believe

4:09in their rules either. So I can drink now. But I had no, no idea of limitations or what addiction was. And immediately I was addicted. My first drink was an entire bottle of wine. And I struggled hard for several years. Got myself into some hairy situations. And I got sober. I had a few false starts, a few stretches of sobriety, where I was just white knuckling it. And eventually that didn't work out. And I drank again. And I reached such a low point that I felt like I didn't know if I had hope anymore. And I had this small voice that said, just try something different. And in the morning I went to an AA meeting. And that was almost 10 years ago. Next month I'll have my 10 year sober birthday. I'd rather late, guys.

5:10Thank you so much. Thank you. But yeah, in this last year I did the artist's way, which is, yeah, I'll perturb it. So it's by Julia Cameron. It's kind of like a 12 step for creativity. And I realized as I was doing it, this memoir that I had started is still sitting there. And there's so many years of journals. And I also had these voice memos. I would go on drives to and from Utah, where I'm originally from, and just talk to myself about, I don't know if this story is actually worth sharing. But these are the things that happened. And this is how I feel about it. And finally I got it all put into a book format. And I kind of love it. It's like my little baby. And so, you know, doing things like this is so far out of my comfort zone. But I feel that the, that I felt alone at certain parts in my journey.

6:11And if my story can help anyone feel less alone, then it's worth this extra effort of doing things that make me a little sweaty. Oh, and it's hot. That is my story as well. Like my story was like, I don't know. I know it couldn't have been just me. And so I know that there must be somebody out there. And I knew how alone, how miserable, how isolated I felt. And I just wanted that person who was sitting there in my old position to be like, I wanted to tell them, you're not alone. I see you. I get it can be better all of that. So I love that you started writing because it was about like helping somebody who was suffering. Yeah. Mine was similar except I think the difference was that I was dying to go talk about it. It wasn't out of my comfort zone. But for me, it was God the PR about sobriety is real bad.

7:13It needs a new publicist because I got so over in 2000. And I, you know, I know everybody thinks, oh my God, this is the end of fun. But in 2000, you really thought that because there were no examples and you had to be so desperate that you were willing to like hang up fun. And so my thing was I just want to show people, if I can just show one person that if I can just show one person. Yeah. Anna's recovery and Anna's whole story and self very glam, very glam. Oh stop. Stop Lisa Lisa is is is myself. Is it kind of but can I brag about one thing please do this morning? I haven't been on Twitter in so long but someone sent me a tweet. I was like, I click and some guy wrote, I'm only sober because of Anna B David. I heard her say something on a podcast and she said, my life, I have no idea who this is. Wow. The best. So Natasha, you don't know who is going to send this to you 15 years after you published your book.

8:13It could happen. I mean, it's right. It was crazy to think about. They will. No, you'll be amazed. So, okay, I cannot come here about the psychosis. Of course. Yeah. So, it's a heavy topic and for years, I thought like it was the thing that ended my life that there was before psychosis and after psychosis. And when I was drinking after psychosis, part of it was why bother because I was so ashamed. But what happened is I had been struggling with eating disorder prior to facing alcoholism in my teenage years. And I was starting to make progress in that regard but I felt like there was still something missing from my routine and I thought medication might help. And so I went and got on some medication for the first time and I didn't read the little

9:18thing at the bottom that says don't drink with this and I did both together. And it started with Mania where I was just amazed by everything. I felt like everything that I said was incredible. Everything that everybody else said was prophecy. And colors were brighter. Everything was just better. And then I woke up one day after I had had the previous day was wild as well. But I had woken up after this day that I had already chopped off my hair and I had just randomly decided to drive to a story. I was living in New York City at the time. I'd been vegetarian for six years and I ate bacon. And then I just had a conversation with a stranger and ended up smoking weed with him in his apartment. My impulsivity was just through the roof.

10:20But that next day after that I woke up and just felt very, very confused. Like I didn't quite understand what was the next step. I was having moments of like Jesus is coming back and then moments of like I think that everybody I love is dead now. And I was clear enough that I texted the family that I worked for and said I don't think I can watch your child today. I'm feeling confused and I don't want to leave her unattended. And she called me the mom of this girl that I nannied for. And she said, you know, I could tell that something's been going on with you for the last couple of weeks. Can you make it to my house? And so I tried to take the subway and I forgot how the subway worked. I had been living in New York on and off for five years and I had my metro card and I didn't

11:20know how to swipe it. And the map looked like snakes just crawling around. So I went back above ground and took a cab to my, to this family's house. And I don't remember everything that I said to her, but I do know along the way to her house, I decided to give my phone away to an unhoused man. And I thought he needed it more than I did. And then I ended up at their house and and I know my behavior was was just very concerning. And so she took me to triage at the Beth Israel Medical Center in New York City. It's a different hospital at the time right now. And in triage, I remember they asked me like, who was the president? And I was, I knew the answer, as I said, it's Barack Obama.

12:22And who, you know, what day is it? I knew what day it was, but I also told them that I felt like I was kind of like Bradley Cooper in limitless. Oh, yeah, that I can. Wow, yeah. It's like what maniac is like, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I was like, I'm pretty sure I can do anything. And I'm not a superhero, but like something close to that. So obviously they wanted to keep me there, but they, they first tried to give me some medication. And I was being difficult about it. I was like, well, what is this medication? What is the name of it? What are the side effects before I put that in my body? I need to know. And they didn't want to give me all that information. So I did end up getting dragged down a hallway and somebody held me down to give me, you know, some kind of tranquilizer. And it didn't work right away. I still spun around and I was like dancing and doing sign language.

13:25And then finally I just settled down, but I was still confused for a while. It took a couple of weeks to make sense of everything that had happened. Wow. Unbelievable. And you believe it was brought on by the combination of the medication and alcohol and at predisposition. I think all of that. And also I had just barely discovered some things about the church I was raised in that made me believe that perhaps all of that was not true. And I do think losing that framework that I had that kind of explained every detail of everything about life. And I think that taking away in combination with the medication and drinking on the medication was just too much for my psyche. Wow. So what happens? You were there and then you stayed and got out.

14:28How did that resolve? Was it a 5150? It was a 5150 I believe. It was definitely supposed to be a 72 hour stay, but I didn't agree with that. And I, from my recollection, who knows if this is exactly how it went down, but I remember writing a note that said, please discharge me by 4pm and they did. And my family actually happened to be visiting New York City at the time. They were already planning to come out. I do think that was a factor as well. There were so many things going on. And so my family ended up taking me back to Utah. First briefly, then I tried to return to New York and it didn't work out. I was like taking the subway and I would wake up like an hour and a half past my stop

15:29and not really know how I got there or why I was there. And it was just getting kind of dangerous for me to be in the city by myself. So I returned to Utah and ended up going back to school to finish my last couple classes. But during that time, I just, I just drank. I just felt like my life was over and just brought in, you know, bottles into the closet and locked the door. I pinned up a felt blanket over the windows so that no light would shine in. And yeah, that's the, that was how dark it got for sure. But sorry, the dog's trying to get away now. He wants you to start talking about him. Yeah, he's like, what about me? Yeah. So in sobriety, it came later after a few failed attempts.

16:31I was dating my husband at the time and we were living together when I had my last relapse. And he said, get sober or we're done basically. And, and so I started attending AA and I had tried AA before and it never really fit. It was like, I think I, I just wasn't ready prior and so I would find things to be offended by or to judge other people by. But this time it was like walking into a room of everybody who understood exactly what I was going through and who also didn't think that my life was over, that there, there were steps. There were, there was a different direction that I could take. And so I dove into the big book and the 12 steps and 12 traditions and a lot of other like off-shoot books, like one breath, 12 steps. And and I had, I did have a spiritual awakening in a sense of my life has meaning and purpose.

17:37But when it came to choosing a higher power, I struggled with the, the he, God language. And I thought, if I am going to have a he, God, maybe it could be this tiny little guy that reminds me to be present and helps me get out the door and go on hikes. And that spread out. I think my higher power is the vastness of everything, the, the frequency that holds us all together and community. But we, we've spent now almost 10 years going on hikes. Now I have another weiner dog too, her name's Brewster. And and truly they do help me find presence in a way that is just so immediate that if I'm feeling kind of antsy and off and I just touch them and feel calm. Yeah, I, I know I got one of my cats like a few weeks before getting sober and I felt

18:41like she helped me get sober. She was one of those soul cats where, you know, she was like my life partner, but, but I, and I, and obviously I love my boyfriend and my current cat, but it was one of those connections. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely that. So okay. So how long ago was that? How long are you sober? I will be sober 10 years on September 28th. And the book tell us more. You were working on it for 15 years. For 15 years. Yeah, obviously there were good stretches where I didn't see that I was working on it, but I've always been into journaling even if that's just writing my thoughts out on Google Docs. So I had a lot of material to work with and, and going through the process was really cathartic. I thought I had worked through so many of these experiences, but writing them out and editing

19:44them over and over again definitely helped me work out some of the last little kinks in there. But yeah, I, I put it all in chronological order was my first step and then kind of eliminated where there was a lot of repetition and saw like, Oh, there is kind of a narrative arc in here. Like here's the story and I was able to, to put it together and there's amazing how that emerges after just putting down what happened. It all starts to make sense like, Oh, this is the art. This is how it, you know, you don't even really realize it when you're writing that stuff down, but it becomes apparent when you start to put it together. And you are also an artist. I am. Yeah. So tell us about your art because it's beautiful. Why you'll see we have links to your website and everything in the notes. Thank you.

20:45Yeah. So art definitely came in sobriety as well. I had, I had dabbled in artistic pursuits before that, but I was just anxious in early sobriety and I needed something to do with my hands. And one of the things I would do, my husband's a musician and I would go to his shows and I would bring yarn and a crochet hook and sit in the back and like make a hat while he rucked out. And then at home, I was like, Oh, I have these acrylic paints and I had like a few of the old campuses. And so I pulled them out and just made some very rudimentary art, but I felt a lightning and I felt that anxiety kind of resolve. And then when my husband and I ended up moving to Colorado, I had just a little bit more

21:45space for my art. So I expanded it a little bit and I thought, well, maybe I could learn how to do watercolor. And I found someone on YouTube that taught me how to do watercolor and just the act of doing it is so, so joyful for me. I know, I mean, this is maybe a side note, but I think about how when I did drink, I was also working as a journalist and I thought that I could only work drunk. And now I mean, I have only made art sober and I and that feels so beautiful to me that I know that this is something I can do just me. Yeah. I think that's so important. We talked a lot about and historically we've talked a lot about this podcast on having

22:45hobbies and having things that just like bring you joy. We've talked about glimmers, right? Just something that it's like either maybe you just see like the most adorable baby and as baby, you see him on the street and you get a glimmer of joy, right? But also we make our own kinds of glimmers when we let that creative thing like just happen and being in that moment, like the way you were talking about it, I can completely picture it just being like a meditative practice, anything like you're a hundred percent present in it. And you know, those are the things like that were impossible before getting sober. You know, I'm curious and I don't know how much you can go into it, but about leaving the faith that you grew up in. How much does that affect your life? I think it completely changed my life.

23:46And now I am so grateful for where I've ended up, but it was a very tumultuous process. It's very ingrained in the culture that I grew up in. And so when I was struggling, like with drinking, everybody thought that the solution was come back to church, follow the steps again, follow the religious steps again and you'll be fixed. And it was a struggle with my family. I think we're at a really good place now where we just respect that we have different beliefs and that's okay. And I feel now that my life has a lot more possibilities than it once did. And you know, I'm very happy for people who find happiness in that faith, but it was not for me. I've got so well said, what a diplomatic way to feel. Oh, yeah. You know, without bitterness.

24:47It's a wider way to feel, right, without anger. Yeah. Yeah, it took a long time to get to this point, but it's good to be here now. So and so are you excited for the book to come out? Are you apprehensive? You know, you said the stuff's out of your comfort zone. Yeah, it's both. It feels like almost inevitable. Like this needs to be the next steps that I take and I, you know, I can't control how people will respond to the book. And I am okay with that, I think. You will be. You will be. You will be. Yeah, because I feel like there's that one person who maybe 15 years from now is going to, to be, to fill us alone. And so it is, it is all worth it. And it is also just really exciting. I had put this idea to rest years ago. I didn't think I would actually write a memoir. I thought everybody thinks they're going to write a memoir.

25:51That's just delusions of grandeur to think that I could write my own. And it's not. And everybody should write there been more. Yeah. But you know, ironically, if you had been in Mania, you would be like, I should write 12. I should write 120 memoirs. That is so true. So coming up on 10 years sober now, what does your recovery look like today? Like what's your community? What's your routine? You still got to meetings a lot. I don't go to traditional meetings frequently. I do sometimes usually for special occasions. I have found a lot of comfort in secular meetings. And I've explored pagan meetings as well, just like online. On. Yeah, they're fun. I do have a sponsor and some sponsors. And I work the program even though I don't go to a meeting every week.

26:52I do. It is 100% just part of my life all the time. I'm the same way like I live in the staffs. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I feel like putting this book out is part of the 12th step. It is a 12th step itself. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's just that the tradition, that's what I always come up against. The tradition against like a... Is it the 11th? Yeah. No, it's not the 11th. Is it? I forget what tradition it is. Yeah, I have to. Yeah, that you're somehow... I mean, the tradition against breaking anonymity. Oh, right. Yeah. I just wrestle with that. But I don't break... The way I felt about it was like I didn't break other people's anonymity. I broke my own. And I got, I'll be honest, like I got, I got flack for it from a lot of places.

27:54I got more positive responses than negative. And I really, it became pretty apparent quickly that, you know, it was reaching people who we could help. And then I was just like, I'll bet they're off on that now because to me, being able to help the next person was way more important. Right. And previous episode guest, 70 Wilder Taylor, I remember she had some great quote that disproved that. And of course, the Saturday evening post article on Bill Wilson is how a lot of people found out about it. So I was going to say, I thought I think I listened to an episode where you guys were talking about that. Yeah. Bill was out all the time talking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, and I am, you know, the recipient of an email from Central Office that said, like, do your thing, but please stop talking about this. Like we're happy for you, but yeah, I wish I still had it.

28:55Was that that they did that? It was when I, when I was doing after party because I remember I was sitting in my office. And I was just like, let's like delete this and pretend it didn't happen, which in retrospect, I wish I still had it. Yeah. Well, you, I can tell you at that moment that you were doing after party, you were helping me because that was Bible to me. I mean, that was, yeah. Well, you know, that's how I, how, you know, I reached out to you through after party. Yeah. When I, I stalked Anna. So, I love it. So we're clear on that. No, president. But yeah, I can't know when you did it. You were the first one. That's crazy. Yeah. I mean, yes and no, there were people, but I think, I think my podcast was the first recovery. No, there was bubble hour. Bubble hour was before. But it certainly wasn't what it is today. But, but okay. So if people want to find you, we have show notes at, yeah, with your links, we'll cover

30:00your rocks pod. Yeah. That is correct. Where should people go? So I, I have a website, Natasha Ruby art.com and my social media is really easy. Everything's just Natasha Ruby art. Yeah. So you can come in there. And can people pre-order your book now? It's not up for pre-order just yet, but it will be pretty soon and it will be available. It's releasing November 17th. Two days before my 26th sober break. Oh my God. Yeah. That's exciting. I did that on purpose. I know. I know. Well, it's fun. You know, when we had Carly Schwartz on that podcast, we were just like, oh, we relate. We're instant friends. And I feel like that about you. I feel that way too. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you for coming on Natasha. It's a really incredible story and congratulations on all you've done. You're really helped.

31:00We're going to help so many people. And that book title. That book title. Oh my God. Yes. Yes. That alone. Well, so Natasha, thanks so much for being here. Thanks, guys. You're listening.