When Do Mental Health Problems Need More Help Than Your Friends Can Give? Part 1

0:00I mean, today's world, it's hard to find good talent and keep them retained within your company. So, little perks and stuff could help with that. So, Sintas, they provide high quality, professional grade options like Carhartt to show the team how much you value them. They also get free laundry and weekly delivery, giving time back to them so they can get out and do their job, do the things they love doing. What we want to do here is check out Sintas.com forward slash HVAC, know what all, check them out. We do that. It's spelled C-I-N-T-A-S, that's Sintas.com forward slash HVAC, know what all. Alright, guys, welcome back to the podcast. We are diving back in with our mental health series and we have Matt Showers on the podcast. Matt is a chiller tech. He used to do some light commercials, some residential stuff and he moved into the chiller side of the industry, which is pretty cool. Now, he also had a podcast a couple of years back that he started and it was a year-round in mental health and the trades.

1:00Anybody that wants to shine a light on that part of the trade, the skilled trades, is good in my books. I mean, he had to tail it off just because life and home and the busyness of it all, but those episodes are there. We'll talk about this during the podcast. Those episodes are there for you to listen to and Matt will give that podcast a shout out during the conversation. Now back to the mental health series here. Sentas, they're the sponsor. They are, they came on board to help out with this and they provide blue collar uniforms to the blue collar trades. They've got all kinds of like programs and stuff where they actually wash your uniforms for you so you don't actually have to take a moment to wash them. All kinds of cool stuff that they're doing. So if you want to check it out, go to sentas.com forward slash HFAC, know what all and sentas is spelled with a C C I N T A S. Now, let's get to Matt and this discussion. We're going to talk about mental health in general. We're going to talk about his sort of scenario and where his mental health went a couple of points in his life.

2:01So let's get to this guys. This is the HVAC, know what all podcasts. I'm your host Gary McCready. Welcome to the HVAC, know what all podcasts. Recorded from a basement somewhere into Toronto, Canada, your host and HVAC tech, Gary McCready will take you on a deep dive into the industry, discussing all things HVAC. Keep storytelling to technical discussion. Enjoy the show. Purchasing air filters directly from the manufacturer definitely has its perks. Factory direct air filters doesn't just sell filters, but they manufacture the AeroStar air filter brand. So basically you're cutting out the middleman. If you manage multiple properties or commercial service contracts, they do have bulk discounts but they also offer wholesale pricing as well. They've got consistent inventory and standard sizes shipped within two days. They also do unique sizes to spec and that's within about five days.

3:02They have free shipping across the US. So if you guys want to get your filters faster and cheaper and built to spec, factorydirectfilters.com is the place to go. Matt, welcome back to the show, man. It's been a while since we chatted. It's been a while since you've been on here. So are you Ben Benz? Oh, I've been doing great. Thanks for having me on here again, Gary. I know it has been, oh my gosh, probably a couple of years now since we had an actual conversation on your podcast here. But yeah, it's been great. Been staying busy, working for the major manufacturing factory that I work for. If you miss, we'll know at this point who that is. But yeah, no, things been great, very busy, very steady work. It's been wonderful in the commercial industrial world. I wanted to have a conversation with you around the mental health aspect of our trade. And we'll talk about like the work you do and all that kind of stuff too, because I think that really matters. Like you had a podcast for specifically mental health. And you had conversations with quite a few people on that topic.

4:02And so what made you start a podcast that was based around the mental health aspect of the skilled trades? Yeah. So what prompted that was there were a couple other podcasts that I'd heard. People would talk about mental health. And it was just for me, it came across as like this. It's an ambiguous concept. Like there was nothing concrete about it. It was abstract. It was just kind of out there in the ether as it were. Like, oh, yeah, we're going to talk about like near. There's this mental health problem in construction and in the trades. And in my head, I thought to myself, okay, that's all well and good. But who are the people? Who are these actual people? Like who are the names and faces to go along with this concept of mental health? Problems in the trades. And so the trade therapy podcast I had started a few years ago and had just a handful of episodes basically highlighted people that were in the trades, whether they were actual trades people or even people that worked in the industry. For example, one person was Becca Stamie, who I guess now she's been remarried now. Congratulations to her.

5:03But she worked for VeeGa. She worked for Viper. She's not a trades person per se, but she was still in the industry and she had. And so she had her own story about like dealing with grief and losing her husband and that's just an example. But I talked with other trades, actual trades people about their stuff. And so, you know, when I saw that you had was we're starting this this year, your own little series that kind of thought to myself, well, good. Like, you know, in some way, I appreciate you kind of in some way, caring the torch, you know, of this and saying, you know, it, hey, it's nice that you're doing something like this as well where you're kind of trying to highlight, you know, people and putting names and faces and stories to the idea of mental health and the trades. Yeah. A bunch of years ago, maybe five, six years ago, there was, we did do like a mini series where it was like three, four podcasts in a row of mental health. And then we took a break from it. We did some other things and it was, it was actually that our sponsor of the mental health series who is Sintos that kind of like loved the idea and wanted to hop on board it and do a whole series throughout the year.

6:04Now, but I did a couple of podcasts on my own in this series just to vent and talk about things that were on my mind from a mental health aspect and what some of the things I go through as a person and somebody in the trade. So that for me alone, like just getting it off my chest, even though there's nobody personally like hearing from me physically, it's still therapy in a way where I felt it was where you're just talking, you're eventually someone's going to hear it and you know that. And just getting it off your chest just by talking about it is almost like a little bit of a stress reliever. Do you find that at all Matt when you talk about it in general? I mean, yeah. And I know that like even you and I had had a conversation, a phone conversation a couple of years ago about something, you know, because you just felt the need that you needed to vent or whatever. And so I appreciate you and me just having that conversation. Yeah, I see. You remember having that conversation where you're again, I was like a hundred feet in the air during that conversation. I think you talked me down a little bit with your calm tone. Well, I mean, yeah, but again, it's it, you know, sometimes it's just nice to just

7:06to yeah, you got to get something off your chest and just chat about something or whatever. But you know, there are times too where and that was something I was kind of a proponent of as well, where it's like, you know, but sometimes it's more than just talking to somebody about it. Like sometimes it's almost like this is a little bit more than just, you know, talking with a buddy or whatever, like you need to actually maybe get professional help because that was something in one of the very first episodes I had with Ben Pol, HFAC Tactical, or he basically, he and I were talking about, you know, sometimes, you know, you come across something that you can't fix. You know, like people call us for to fix their HVAC systems because they don't have to do it. And it's just like, yeah, there might be a mental health problem that you and I can't necessarily fix on our own. We need professional help. And that's what happened with me at one point was I basically got to a point where I thought I could handle my own issue and it got to a point where I just broke down. Finally, I was like, you know, I, you know, even if it's just for a few months, I just need some, someone professional to come in and to help me kind of work through that. And thankfully, it has helped. I still, every once in a while, there are still, I still slip up at times, but it's, you

8:07know, the, the slipups are fewer and fewer with my own issue. And, and we can get into that too was, you know, and people might laugh at it or everybody, I think it's a real thing is screen addiction, whether it's your phone, whether it's video games, that sort of thing. Like, I think any kind of addiction because is a mental health issue, drugs alcohol, I mean, it's the stuff that people talk about the most, but I think because we have these tiny little computers that are at a disposal when we have social media and all sorts of other things that are right in our face that are so easy to just kind of get on and quick hit like that little dopamine hit as it were. I mean, you can just get sucked in real fast. No, you can, I've caught myself doing it like before. Like I don't feel I'm addicted to screen. Like I run like a, this media thing, HVAC, know what also I need to be on my phone in order to facilitate that. I have caught myself 10 o'clock at night scrolling like two second, two second, two second, two second. I'm like, what am I doing? Like I'm not even watching anything. I'm just scrolling up, right? It's time to put the phone down.

9:08So I catch myself doing that and I'm glad I do because I'm like, and then when I actually become conscious of the fact that I'm doing this, I'm like, Jesus Christ, I'm tired. Like my eyes are, my eyes are starting to water. Like it's time to put this down. Like I mean, if you read about phones and screens and stuff like that, you're not supposed to be touching them like at least an hour to two hours before bed because that bright light in that phone tells your brain that it's still time to be awake. And your brain doesn't have that sort of slow down period or that period where your brain is cooling down to start relaxing. So you can fall asleep. So I mean, if you try to, if you've been on a doom scrolled on your phone for two hours and you put it down, you're probably ain't falling asleep when you should be. So that affects your life in general, like lack of sleep. I know when I have lack of sleep, I feel absolutely useless. Like I don't even want to go on a job site because I feel like I'm going to hurt myself or I'm not aware enough or I'm just not in the mind frame to work on other people's

10:09age fact equipment if I end up getting like two, three hours of sleep in the night. So I mean, that's a big factor too, right? Oh yeah, absolutely. And I mean, specifically for me, it's like it's video games now. And the thing that was a huge thing was these phone games because like the phone games, like they, they, I mean, and these game developers, they know exactly what they're doing. Oh yeah. Of course. Yeah, exactly where it's just like, you know, oh, you do this one, you reach this one goal. Well, here's what you can do to reach the next goal and the next goal. And it's just, and then it's, you know, one of my friends who's also a gamer, but he was at one point, he looked at me because I was playing, you used to play World of Warcraft many years ago, but he looked at me at one point, he's like, dude, what are you doing? Like this is just a hamster wheel. There's, there's no getting off. There is no end point. Like there is no finish line. It's just they just, they just, they know, and I'm like, you know what, that's true. Cause I mean, yeah, you know, video games, even now, yeah, there's still like an end point, but yeah, and you got some of these games where they're so immersive and they're so, you know, yeah, there's an end goal, but to get to the end goal still takes, you know, days, hours so much time. And then, you know, and it's the same kind of thing where it's like, oh, if I just do

11:11one more quest or one more thing, I mean, and everyone's different. I mean, I'm not, this is not like a blanket statement at all, but I'm just saying, this is for me, it is, it is still crutch. Like I actually have to set a timer on my phone so I can say, okay, the timer goes off, I put the controller down, I walk away. Like I have to do that. Or else I will easily ignore like everything around me, including my family. And that's where the problem came. It was like, I was ignoring my family. I was ignoring my kids, you know, and when, and my wife and I have also realized where it's like if we're on our screens for too long, you know, if we're like, we, and the kids come in with something like we feel like we're being interrupted. And then we kind of like get, you know, we get like angry and lash out. And it's just like, that's, that's a best its own problem, you know, where you can't do that. You got to be able to just be able to kind of, you know, it's like, what's more important? My family or spending time on these random pixels. And that's, it's, you know, against like being in the real world. And as they say, go touch grass. So you said you, you went and received help for this? Yeah, I actually had a therapist. This is going back a couple of years ago, but yet we taught, you know, that's what I

12:13needed. It was what I needed to do. I can't necessarily think about all the needy greedy details as it were, but just doing that helped. It was almost like, it was kind of like a reorientation of the brain. We're just like kind of like, Hey, almost like train my brain to say, well, what, you know, what is really most important? And then we did some exercises where it's like, you know, imagine like you're on your deathbed. What do you want to see? You know, like these, some of these visual things, like just like these exercises about thinking about what, you know, almost like projecting yourself into the future. Like, you know, is this what you want? Is this what you want? You know, almost imagining, say like, you keep doing this. Is this, you know, what, what is it that you want? And then kind of like, almost like that envisioning, well, here's the end goal that I want. What are the steps that I can take today to help make that happen? And it was at least a wake up call. You know, I still, I mean, full disclosure, I still play video games with my kids every once in a while, but my wife and that's more like, you know, my kids and myself, like, we're playing something together. It's communal in a sense. I mean, we used to do, you know, you probably did that too when you were killed. Like, you probably go to somebody's house, wherever you hop on and play video games for a

13:13little bit or something. I mean, I did that, you know, but there's like communal aspect where it's like, you're sitting beside each other. Like, you're still, you know, you're not necessarily doing something physical together, but you're still at least like in the same room together. And, you know, I think that's kind of missed in some ways with, you know, everything is online, everything is virtual. All I have to do is just hop on and, you know, everyone's, somebody's in one country, someone's in another country or a whole another state and whatever else. And there's nothing, there's nothing like personal about it. Yeah. No, I hear what you're saying. And like, I mean, and video games back in the day, you buy them like Nintendo, the original Nintendo, you buy the game for 40 bucks. You pop it in like Mario. There's eight levels and you're when you're done, you're done. The, like the video game developers nowadays are brilliant from a business standpoint. Maybe, maybe a little bit evil in a way. Because like I watch my kids grow up playing Fortnite and like, I mean, instead of buying a game for 40, 50 bucks, these guys are making thousands of dollars per kid,

14:15right? Because these kids are getting gift cards for Fortnite and they're buying skins and they're buying what you call it, like the dances and stuff like that, which I'm like, so hold on. You have a gift card for $100. What are you doing with that? Oh, I'm buying a dance or I'm buying this suit or skin. I'm like, I said, I don't get why you're doing that. But man, these people that have built this are filthy rich because I've seen what can happen when it's like your buddies at school. Okay, I got this skin. So now everybody wants, it's just like new pair of shoes. Oh, that kid's got that new pair of Nike Jordans. Well, now I want them. So everybody goes out and buy them. So I, I understand from a kid's mindset why they want to kind of keep up with the joneses in that way. And it can get super, super dangerous, especially when credit cards of parents are linked to the kids account and they're gold because this happened with two of my kids. I look at my credit card statement and it's like $500 and I'm like, what is going on? Oh, I didn't know that it was costing you money. Really?

15:16Maybe you didn't, but the fact that it's that easy for a 10 year old kid to buy $500 worth of Fortnite skins in a month. Without some sort of parental, I mean, maybe I did it wrong. Maybe I set it up wrong. I don't know. Anyway, that was something that I learned alongside of this. But let's pause there and we'll come back to this because I want to know sort of what triggered you to go get help. Some of the things that you talked about, some of the things that you did to kind of stick to, to ween off of it. But you reminded me of something when you brought up the conversation. We had a couple of years back. Now, I want to ask you this because this happens sometimes. It's happened to me. It's happened to other people. What the conversation we had was about individuals online that attack under other individuals online. And it seems to be for like no real apparent reason. It seems I don't know why.

16:16And this seems to me like a mental health thing on its own. So if I'm watching, if I'm going through my phone and I come across, Dave, the electrician and I'm like, for some reason, I don't like this guy. And I'm going to start attacking him and I'm going to start talking about him and causing problems for him. Why would somebody go out of their way to do that? Like what in their, what's going through their mind when they do that? Oh, I wish I knew. I mean, I mean, I kind of find the whole thing ridiculous too. With it where it's almost like, just people that are like keyboard warriors, I find that whole mentality to be just, it's just childish. I mean, like I might, I mean, I engage with people online once in a while with, with some kind of argument that I feel strongly about. But, you know, to come across like attacking them, like by calling them names and such, it's like, well, that's not going to make your point any different. Like whenever I, at least for me, whenever I try to, you know, argue or just have a discussion. That's why I'm fine for having a conversation or discussion with people.

17:18And so for me, it's almost like it's like, I'm not going to call people names. I'd rather be like, Hey, I don't under, well, even you know, it's like, you know, Facebook trolls. You know, I'm calling Facebook out because you know, that's, that's a prime target. But where it's like, you know, people troll about whatever XYZ thing. It's like, would you really say that to that person to their face? I mean, really, you're just doing this because you're just comfortable behind the screen. You feel like you're some big shot big man because you can do whatever. Meanwhile, it's like, if I see something where, like, I don't understand the why I will usually ask and say, Hey, you know, I see you did, you know, XYZ thing. What was the rationale for it? And sometimes, you know, then people explain, well, you know, this is the way, you know, say, you know, it's like an age-fec installation as an example. Well, this is the code here in this state. This is why we have to do this thing. Oh, that makes sense. And so then like, I'm educated, the person at least feels more empowered to at least, you know, say to say, Oh, this person is actually just genuinely asking me a question and not just being like, well, that's stupid. Why in the world would you run? Why would you run your condensate drain line all the way to the roof edge and not just let it drip on the roof?

18:19That's so stupid. You hack, you know, it's like, Oh, no, like in Texas, it's code to have like condensate line run all the way to the roof edge. Pennsylvania, we don't care. We just, you know, we can, as long as there's a condensate trap or whatever for the unit, it can just run on the roof and be there all day. But that's just the way the codes are written for as an example. I'm sure, you know, up in Canada, you've got stuff that makes us kind of go, Why in the world do you guys do that? Well, it's because those are the way your rules are written. But as far as, yeah, attacking individuals, I mean, I can get where, you know, sometimes, you know, we're the person that, you know, certain person I know and you and I both know who it was. But it's like they know that that person was like attacking all sorts of things, you know, attacking like trade shows like, well, I don't understand why, you know, why we have to have a HR and CMPX when all they're doing is just going there and drinking beer and eating food. When you know, they say they're getting educational, where's the education happening? Blah blah blah. It's like, yeah, you're just seeing one side of it. You know, you're just seeing the side that, you know, there's all sorts of other people that are actually engaging in the actual like purpose of the show, not just to be there to have fun. Yes, I mean, it's nice to network and to see you basically what I call make real, the invisible people online, you know, that's all well and good.

19:27But I mean, yeah, you still, it's still nice to kind of go there to say, oh, yeah, I went there and I learned about this product or I went and talked to this manufacturer, this tool person and I learned something new that they're coming out with or, you know, the why of whatever is going on. I mean, you know, you have those people that go to all those different shows. I mean, prime example that of a person that does all sorts of shows and such would be, you know, Eric, on a mechanical hub like those guys like that's their purpose is to go to like, you know, a walkie-pipe line and learn about these things. You know, but I don't see people going at them be like, why don't I stand while you guys need to go to do this thing? Well, it's like, well, they're invited first of all and then they go to and then they're and they're there to try to like, you know, have me a coverage like, you know, you had, you have been read. Do the AHR stuff. You know, whenever that comes around to kind of do some coverage for your for your brand and you know, that's why I don't understand. I think it's just, I don't know, maybe somebody just feels like they have a God complex and they just feel the necessary to just go after somebody. It just it just seems very silly and childish to me, especially when it's somebody that's older, you know, I brought this topic up because this is not the first time I've seen this.

20:29The first time that has happened to me where somebody has gone out for no apparent reason doesn't know me doesn't know me as a person just sees me trying to do things online with whatever I'm doing tools equipment service calls whatever it may be. And they just make the decision to not like me and it's not just me. I'm just using me as an example because I called you about this particular thing. But it happens to multiple people. Online where someone watches their content. They're like, yeah, for some reason I don't like this person. Maybe they might get into the comments and make some stupid comment whatever that happens all the time. But to make a conscious effort to create content about that person and post it. That to me is is something different and that to me. Almost speaks to a mental health issue because if you're totally comfortable in your own skin and you know you're doing what you need to do for yourself, your family, your job, your business, and you're totally comfortable in your skin.

21:35There's absolutely no need to go after somebody else because what are you fulfilling in your own life by attacking someone else online creating content about that person. Throwing their name out, maybe damaging their character. What do you think prompts a person to do this like is it a mental health thing? Is it is it attention seeking? What is it? Oh, I think it's absolutely attention seeking because I mean you look at I mean, I've heard discussed among other kind of like podcast or people where it's like, you know, it's so easy. You know, it's so easy to go after somebody negative, you know, with negativity and it creates a whole bunch of like reactions content. Your what are interactions? I don't even know the name of what the heck you would call you probably know because you're in that sphere. But you know, it's just it just generates, you know, these reactions and engagement. That's what it is. Generates the engagement on their page, their quote unquote brand as it were, you know, just because then it helps them get more views, more likes, whatever.

22:35You know, and so I think it's, you know, so it's easy to you react to somebody negatively about that. But to do so though, it's just, I mean, I think eventually it's going to catch up to you. I mean, I'm always a mentality where it's kind of like, you know, what comes around goes around, you know, you're if you're going to do this stuff. I mean, eventually people are going to see through it, I think and just be like, you know, why? I mean, like, you know, that, you know, that individual that you and I talked about, I had followed him for a while. And then he's he's kept on going on about different grants and everything else. I was like, you know, I don't need this stuff in my feed. And so I just, you know, it's just like whatever. And you know, I make no bones about the fact that if there's somebody that I used to follow, say on the Instagram, if I don't find what they're doing useful to me, I'll just don't follow. I don't make an announcement. Say, you know, it's just more like, you know, if it's not useful, I just unfollow and move on. And it's no hard feelings. It's not like I don't like that person as an individual, but it's just like, well, what your what your content is, I don't need to, you know, spend my time doing that. That's one less thing that's going to help that's going to clutter up my feed as an example. So yeah, but to do that specifically, it's like, well, if you don't like the person for what they're doing, then just unfollow and don't see their stuff and move on with your life.

23:45Like, good riddance. Well, why does that matter so much? I mean, I think again, it's just that it generates engagement. They just, you know, because then it kind of like it's like a boost to their, you know, their platform as it were. I agree with you. If if you don't like what they're doing, just unfollow them. And I had this conversation actually with Don Gillis this week. I haven't spoken to him in such a long time. He's doing his own Gillis coaching thing, which is very cool. And he was saying like, if you want to follow people in the trade, make sure that you're very careful on who you select because there's bad information out there. So follow the people that you kind of vet and know they're doing the things correctly or giving you good advice because you could follow someone and think they're awesome. Like they're cool. Like they come across as like visually cool and they're like kind of like someone you'd want to hang out with. But they're not doing things properly in their job and you're following them and be like, yeah, right on, man. And I've seen this before. I've literally been on people's pages that kind of have that they've got a big following because they look like that person that you'd want to hang around with their likable, they look approachable.

24:54They're always kind of smiling. And then they're doing things that they shouldn't do and saying things they shouldn't say and using wrong terminology. And you get into their comments and it's just like fire emojis and yeah, yeah, brother and facts and this and that. I'm like, do you guys know that this person is like doing half the things wrong that's that they're doing and you're agreeing and putting fire emojis and it's really, really odd to see that. But I get it. It's like, if you're at school, for instance. And there's a popular kid who seems like very likable, approachable, everybody likes them. But they're doing bad things. People will follow that kid to do bad things because they want to be part of that that gang and that crew and that click and I get it. It's just very, very odd to see. So take the advice from dawn. Follow people that actually know what they're doing where the content is true and factual and all that kind of stuff. And then your feed should be filled with some good good stuff. I mean, it's very easy nowadays for these algorithms and like Gary V says the it's not social media anymore. It's interest media because your feed. The algorithms are tuned to know what you're interested in is very, very funny. I can watch a cooking video for 30 seconds.

26:09And then like the next 30 videos that I scroll through like I would say half of them are cooking videos and all it took was 30 seconds for Instagram or talk to know that I'm interested in cooking videos. And now that's all that's all it's going to show me. So it's very, very it's quick and like I said, it's it's brilliant, but it's also evil in a way.