When Choosing Yourself Means Distancing Yourself From Family | For Mannerless Women

0:00Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have Exema. So I get how it can steal your time. But why let Exema take over when you can talk to your doctor about Epglyce? Epglyce, lubricism ab LBKZ, a 250 milligram per 2 milliliter injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older, who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms, with moderate to severe Exema. Also called a topic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin, or topicals, or who cannot use topical therapies. Epglyce can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you are allergic to Epglyce. A allergic reaction can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have newer, worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglyce. Before starting Epglyce, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Paid partnership with Lili. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about Epglyce and visit Epglyce.com or call 1-800-LiliRX or 1-800-545-5 9-7-9. Your sausage Mcbuffin with egg didn't change.

1:03You're receded. The sausage Mcbuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5. Only at McDonald's for limited time. Bryson, your decision may vary. My worst health was not there. But I self-confidence people think, okay, this guy is confident. She's fine. Is she? At the walk, at the go-and-a-go, I want her to go out, go to my friends, my cousins, and I don't know. They would be like, wow, you're not ashamed of going out when you're pregnant and engaged and I'm like, no, I'm not. So you see, there was shame she hoped I had, but somehow I lived it a bit loudly enough. And I think when I told you, as I believe in something, people believe in you. So even her shoes were like, oh, okay. Second boundary is in an African family. It needs a different chapter in psychology courses. I feel like we can't just import the curriculum from outside. Because it's a different terrain. So what did setting boundaries in your African family looked like?

2:05I think that most people wouldn't do. Because my mom had also taken my son to school as in she was paying for him. But now when she's paying for him to school, what does that mean? She can hold my net like this and just continue to kill me. Whatever is left of me, because she can do anything. Anything, ask for anything. Ask for compliance. My identity doesn't matter. What I want doesn't matter. Because I should be grateful, yeah? So I was like, no, by the way, I'm moving. If I get a call that you have been arrested because you broke things, because you're angry, I would be very happy. I can't be very happy. I'm in catch. I come and lay you. Welcome to For Manelist Women. I'm your host, Adele Loneango. And this is a space committed to nurturing a new generation of shame-free women. And in this episode, we're hanging out with psychologist Ivana. And we're unpacking how to build healthy boundaries in your families, or sometimes going no contact. All the manelists or almost manelists women. This is so awesome.

3:11I think we haven't seen each other in such a long time. So it's great to have you on the show Ivana. And I love the work that you do. And I love that you have really come into yourself. So even the version of you that I met was a version that you had become because of your environment. Yes. Okay. It's going to make sense to everyone. It's going to make sense to you as we go. So let's start with, when did you first realize that you weren't living as your true self? I think along the years after I got my child. So I was a teen mom about 11 years ago. Okay. But as I grew, the child grew and I became a mother and I was out here. I realized I'm not myself. So people would meet me and they'd be like, you seem different. You seem you changed so much since you got your child. Like you changed the whole 360 degrees and you seem calm. Okay. So what were you before? I was happy, go lucky.

4:12I was the life of the party. I was fun. But I was an excessively fun. Yeah. Okay. So then I changed to become excessively quiet and excessively calm. And people would be like, oh wow. You know people celebrate that. They're like, oh this is nice. Yeah. Yeah, she's composed. She's mature. Yeah. Yeah. But then I realized that's not to me. Yeah. I couldn't feel stuck, you know. So if you go and take like, I mean you're going to take a short of alcohol. Then you realize, that's me. Yeah. I feel like, oh, comfortable with this. Yeah. I can speak more. I feel more lively. I feel more myself. Yeah. Then when I go back to being normal, then I'm not, you know. So I realized there's something wrong. And I started asking myself what was the reason? Why was I different from who I wanted to be? And I was stuck in that identity. I could see I'm stuck and I couldn't get out. Maybe because of the career I also chosen. And how I felt. Because of that career. I also chosen. And how I thought I should be because of that career.

5:12Come. Cool. Yeah. I liked it. Mentor. Yeah. You know, I do a lot of child psychology. Yeah. Any people send their kids to me. Yeah. So I'm like, I have to be a mentor. Yeah. I actually had one day. I tried to refer a client to someone. And they told me I saw their status. And I don't think they can see my fan. I'm like, okay. So I do have to have proper status for business. Yeah. I do have to have a good image. Yeah. No one can see me anywhere. I'm not supposed to be. Yeah. So I was like, okay, now what do I do? So I just decided, okay, fine. It's fine. I'm mellow. I'm calm. Quiet. And I accepted that. But as time went on. Last year, the grace lifted. Yeah. I feel like that was the grace lifted. Yeah. And I no longer wanted to be a shell of myself. Yeah. I love this. And we're going to come to like how, you know, all of this was lifted and your eyes are open. And you're like, I'm going to be exactly who I am.

6:12Yeah. Let's go to the version of you before you got pregnant. Right. So happy, go lucky. Life of the party. Loud. I think you've been called that version of you like crash out. Yeah. Yeah. With that, a version that you had to become because of your environment, for sure. Okay. So my environment was very aggressive, criticism, a lot of shame around sensitivity, which I always have, even now, as a, even as I become myself more and more, I still realize I'm a very sensitive person. But then I'm able to call it out. At that time, I would just hide it. So I would mask that with what being very aggressive as well. So I was trying to fit into the environment so that it doesn't swallow me up, you know. And so the home environment was very, very aggressive, very chaotic. Yeah, I started to be chaotic myself, aggressive. And that's how I was.

7:12So my life was very, I was very outspoken, confident. I was a fighter, you know, and but it wasn't me. I would get exhausted. I still would cry. I would still want to get attention from home, but I wouldn't. So that's how I just became a crush out from primary and high school. I was just a big, I would call it a big crush out. My personality was just out going, a bit of a bully, but not like fighting. Yeah, just the way I talked. Because I don't even bully that home. Babily. So I knew how to do it. Yeah, so meh, even words, I can really use my word and make them sound not so good. Yeah. So I remember recently that I became a psychologist and I was publishing my work. I got a anonymous hit message. I never knew, pull, get that. So it's said, Ivan, I can see now you're a psychologist, you're helping people, but just know that in high school,

8:12you messed my life and you... Oh, my goodness. Yes. How hard breaking. And I was in my primal, good therapist. And then someone comes and tells you, you messed up my life because you spoiled my confidence in me. Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have Exema. So I get how it can steal your time. But why let Exema take over when you can talk to your doctor about Epglyce? Epglyce, Lebrichizumab, LBKZ. A 250mg per 2ml injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older, who weigh at least 88 lbs or 40kg with moderate to severe Exema. Also called a topic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals, or who cannot use topical therapies. Epglyce can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you are allergic to Epglyce. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. I-problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have newer worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglyce.

9:13Before starting Epglyce, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Paid partnership with Lily. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about Epglyce and visit Epglyce.com or call 1-800-LilyRX or 1-800-545-5979. Meet the Red Bull Dragonberry Emergizer. It's one of the many new drinks out now. Who knew ice cold drinks could be so? Fire. Try them all only at McDonald's. Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have eczema. So I get how it can steal your time. But why let eczema take over when you can talk to your doctor about Epglyce? Epglyce, Lebrichizema, LBKZ, a 250-mg per 2-mg leador injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older, who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kg with moderate to severe eczema. Also called a topic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin. Or topicals, or who cannot use topical therapies,

10:14Epglyce can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you are allergic to Epglyce. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have newer worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglyce. Before starting Epglyce, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Pay partnership with Lilli. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about Epglyce and visit Epglyce.com or call 1-800-LilyRX or 1-800-545. Right now at Subway, try the 499 sub of the day. Get a different 6-inch sub every day for just 499 each. Like meatball marinara on Mondays, tuna on Tuesdays, and the BMT on Saturdays. It's a different 6-inch sub every day. Pack with protein and your choice of chopped veggies for just 499 each. Or make it a meal with chips and a drink for just $2 more. But hurry, it's only for a limited time and only its subway. After participating restaurants, prices higher in Washington, Alaska and Hawaii and on third-party delivery. Add on taxes and fees for delivery additional!

11:14Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have Eczema. So I get how it can steal your time. But why let Eczema take over when you can talk to your doctor about Epglyce? Epglyce, Liberkizma, BLBKZ, a 250mg per 2ml injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults in children 12 years of age and older, age and older, who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms, with moderate to severe axima. Also called a topic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin, or topicals, or who cannot use topical therapies, ebglus can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you are allergic to ebglus. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have newer worsening eye problems, you should not receive a live vaccine when treated with ebglus. Before starting ebglus, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Any partnership with Lily. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about ebglus and visit ebglus.com or call 1-800-LilyRX or 1-800-545-5979. So I told her sorry, humbling reality check, right?

12:19Yeah. But I realized, yeah, my high school was really just, I was out there. I didn't even care about my results. There's a time I looked at my results and I was like wow, I didn't even know I was getting this because I was really living it out. But there was no other option. Sometimes I usually think when I look at kids, when you're in such an environment, is it that you then get depressed? You know what I mean? Is it that you get depressed or you just crush out and become a wanting attention or control even because if at home you, it's aggressive and you're being criticized, etc. And then school becomes the only place where you have some semblance of control maybe. Right. And maybe if you do that, then the teachers give you all the attention as well. So there's layers to it. Because even when people say like, oh, this kid is a bad child or they're problematic. I'm always like, I think they're asking for something. For sure. And we just need a patient person to be like, what's going on?

13:20Yeah. Like what were you doing? I mean, right? And no one cared because I think I understood because even I used to tell teachers, I mean, you can't tell me that. Yeah, I can't even know for what at home. So if you're going to be like that, sorry. Wow. So I think they tried to even use positive psychology. Some schools would tell me, oh, no, even I think you're very, you're good at influencing people to do things. Just try and influence them to do good things as opposed to the bad things you're doing. So my emotional needs were also not attended to, but also every other need they had. You know, children have everything as a need. Yeah. Yeah. So everything I wanted was always shined against. And so I realized my needs are not meant to be met. Yeah. Or they are too much. Yeah, I'm too much. I'm too much. I need to slow down. I need to not want too much. And that one quietly happens because now when I grow up, I realize, oh, I'm the person to sing relationships. It's okay. It's okay. That part.

14:20Yeah. Now I'm always thinking, no, it's not okay. Nothing is okay. Yeah. Because who decides what's too much and like for you, there's no like global decision of like, this is now where we cry. You know what I mean? Like we're not the same. If it's too much for me, it's too much for me. If you can take it, no problem, right? So you realize that this was affecting your relationships. That's what you're saying. Yeah. That actually affected my relationships a lot knowing. Yeah. Because now you give too much. Also because you're chasing love from your parents. You think that's how love is supposed to be. That you have to keep chasing it. You need to be able to develop it. You need to really prove that you need this love or you're supposed to get it. But also when it comes to really, you're like, eh? See, it's a bit too much. But is it too much or you just don't know how to receive love? Yeah. Or your definition of love is not positive. Yeah. Yeah. So I think I just learned how to not have needs but everything was shamed.

15:20Even the need for love, the need for hugs, the need for a family show. Yeah. To be talked to properly. Yeah. To be not punished every few seconds. Yeah. Everything I do. So there's a lot of shame around who I was, what I wanted, what I needed. Yeah. And did it affect, because you said you were a teen mom. Yeah. Did it affect then how you mothered your child or were you aware enough that that was with uncomfortable like it ends with me. So the only, now the interesting thing I realized there was shame I could see. Then there was some I couldn't see that I began to see now. So the one I could see was like if I'm pregnant and I'm 18, they're shamed. Yeah. I didn't take that. That was at least something I could see. Yeah. So I was like, no, I was 18. I was like, no. Yeah. So at work, I'd go wherever I wanted, I'd go out, I'd go to my friends, my cousin. And I would always be like, wow, you're so, you're not ashamed of going out when you're pregnant at this age and I'm like, no, I'm not.

16:22So you see there was shame she hoped I had, but somehow I lived it a bit loudly enough. And I think when I told you as I believe in something, people believe in me. So even as she was like, oh, okay. I don't think they shame around that. You know, so I think at that point, the pregnancy was not shameful for me. Yeah. But it was for her. Yeah. And then she treated me now with that was she, I was a, she showed me that she was ashamed and I had cost her shame. So that was now I was paying back for the shame I cost her. So she really treated me now with that was the meaning at that point. But also me not knowing that this was wrong. And saying by the way, after I get the first job I'm out of here, I see. I still stayed, you know, I still took it in. I still, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I held everything that she did. Luckily, I don't know if this is supposed to be said like this, but I was pregnant with a boy. I don't know if that helped me have a better tolerance level. They say when you're pregnant with a boy, you have a better mood than when you're pregnant with a girl.

17:25Oh really? Yeah, when you're pregnant with a girl, you're, you're sassy. My mom had three girls. You should ask her whether she was salty. Maybe she was very salty. Yeah. So me I was just like, yeah, we can do this. So she used to talk to me badly during the day. I come and watch a movie with high at night. I used to make it work. But also there was shame. I think I want to go back to there was shame around talking. I feel like something else. So when I talk, I don't talk very confidently. People think I'm confident. But I still feel this anxiety when I talk. So I notice there are things when I'm talking. Either I don't finish sometimes my sentences. Or there's a level of when I'm anxious. There's a, you can tell when you're speaking, it's not very confident. For me, I can tell. Other people maybe might not tell. So again, let's go back to how my child got to the shame. So there was, she was there for him. But the shame now is in the correcting, over correcting my child.

18:27And she gave a microphone of it. What is it? What is it? What's wrong with you? And she made a microphone of it and laughed. Because I used to say, mini. I used to be intolerant. I'm even learning now. I have been very intolerant of my son. In places where I should have been just happy to be there. But why? Because I'm transferring the intolerance I used to see. It's unhealthy, but it's familiar. And it's normalised at first. Because I thought it was normal. And I thought, oh, this is how parents are. This is tough love. Yeah. It's not tough love. So I, that, and then over correcting. Correcting everything. Every two minutes. Why are you doing this? Do this, let this do this. Yes. So the chaos. So I used to, I caught myself being the over correcting. What else? I think that also just how I perceived him. Yeah. How I perceived him was not right.

19:28So also trying to correct all that after cutting off my mother and my whole family. Has been quite handling. Because you see, I have to get out of myself. And realise also there's intolerance towards myself. Anything new project towards your child is because you're also feeling it. So I have to tolerate myself. You're true self. My true self. Yeah. And be happy in it. I used to keep telling him, I used to keep saying that he's slow. That's things slowly. And I realise I also do things like I would enjoy. Yeah. I would want to do things slowly. Yeah. But I was rushed. Hey, when I was young, I was, I've never been rushed. If there is one thing I remember from my childhood is the rush I had to embody. Yeah. Like even at good school and I'm writing, which is like, wow, I'm getting so fast. Yeah. Yeah. You're talking so fast. You're working so fast. That's such a good note because of friend and I were talking about it recently. I was saying one of the easiest ways to come back to yourself is to do things slowly.

20:33And so I constantly like check myself even just staring my teeth. I'm like, are you in the military? And where are you going? And my friend said, yeah, that's true. And I was like, you're always rushed. Shower quickie. Even now is a thousand hours home. It's a Saturday. You can relax but you're like, wake up. So I told the sentence I used is, you're not in the military. When I catch myself brushing, I'm like, babe, imagine you're not in the deep. No, I don't know. I don't know. Whatever they call. Waiting for you. Maybe it's so crazy. I mean, I don't know. For me, I really want to be slow. But of course it's time. And it's what you knew it and say it was normal. It was drundancy or mine. So tell us some of the things you tried doing to remedy your relationship with your mom. Hey, it's Kelly Rowland.

21:34You may not know this, but I have exoma. So I get how it can steal your time. But why let exoma take over when you can talk to your doctor about epglyss? Epglyss. Ebbglyss. Leverchismab LBKZ. A 250mg per 2ml injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older, who weigh at least 88 lbs or 40kg with moderate to severe axima. Also called a topic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. Ebbglyss can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you are allergic to epglyss. Other reactions can occur that can be severe. I-problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have newer worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with epglyss. Before starting epglyss, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Pay partnership with Lili. Respect your time. Ask your doctor about epglyss and visit epglyss.com or call 1-800-LiliRx or 1-800-545-5979. Technology made banking easier.

22:34Travel easier. Shopping easier. Home insurance is still catching up. Skin is changing that. Smart technology that helps you find coverage fast and real people when you actually need them. Simple tools, faster help, no trade-offs. Home insurance that finally makes sense. Go to kin.com slash podcast. That's k-i-n dot com forward slash podcast. Kin refers to Kin Distributor Insurance Services, a licensed California surplus lines broker and sure that it's not licensed or regulated by the California Insurance Commissioner. They were probably unhealthy things and also then the healthy things. Of course, I tried therapy at the very initial beginning. Unfortunately, I got genetics and baby boomer therapist. They tell me, you have to be grateful, you have to fix it, you have to... When you go home, they had your mom. Wow. And I was young. So I said, let's do this. I'm going to love her. You love her. She feels good. She feels a bit over.

23:35She goes, she's good for like two seconds. And then another thing happens, I want to talk about something different. She doesn't like it. So I tried to be the good daughter. Let me put it as that. I tried to be the good daughter not only because of the therapy I got from the genetics and baby boomer. But also because I thought it was possible. And where good is what she wants you to be? Yeah. And what she wants me to be, how she wants me to be, not questioning, not bringing up my own opinion, silencing the parts of me that she, that she got her. And then I also, this is interesting, but she has a different career from mine. Yeah. Very polar opposites. I met her at Diploma in counseling. Oh wow. Yeah, I told her, you know, you could make more money. I used her own psychology. You know, I was like, you know, if you do this thing, if you combine this with this, you could really make a lot of money. Yeah. She's like, okay, really, yeah. That, you know, you have to do therapy sessions. Yeah. And then I was like, okay, that would help.

24:35That was so smart. I really tried it. Yeah. And then she went for two years. She finished. Yeah. She went for two years. She graduated. She did the therapy. I don't know how she did the therapy. Yeah. But I realized, like she would be more calm. But then she wouldn't know how to deal with me or she would just, and I realized the calmness was not coming from the class. She was coming from getting older, more tired. Then you kind of, you're not able to do as more aggression as you used to. But it's still aggression, you know, and it's still unbearable for me as her daughter. So that I tried. And then I also tried to take her from a stag and talk to her and tell her, you know, I really, I really wanted to have a good relationship. And I'm hoping that, and she was like, never, ever, dare bring this up again. I tried to take her and, you know, deal with you over 18, so just deal with your stuff.

25:38So that happened a lot of times, actually. Me trying to fix it because I was like, okay, what's the other alternative? I never thought, okay, I can be done. Yeah. Last year, as I said, the grace lifted. And I usually say, I don't believe in religion, but I believe in God. Because why then last year, I had no grace at all. Something happened and I realized, so I started holding back and I was more of myself with her. And I kid you not, we could, we always argued. We couldn't talk. Because now you were not shrinking back. Yeah. And neither was she. Yeah. You were boyfriend. Yeah. We were both ferocious. So my grandmother told me that if you think this lion you see in us, you're not in new, then you better think twice. So I always think about it. I'm like, I hope my ferocious can be used to heal people and infect people as opposed to heart people.

26:38Yeah. Because if I have it, maybe I can use it for good. Yeah. So, yeah. So I really tried, I really tried even helped her to see how high and her mom had not a very good, you know, the dynamic. Yeah. But by the, the defensive mess that came with that, yeah, you know, protecting the family narrative. Yeah. The dynamics here and the people who are in charge, sounds like it's fine. So last year, it was just me, my head breaking down and saying, oh my god, this is not it. There's nothing left to do. So I think I tried all that and then I also tried to be mean girl energy to be the bee. But now, of course, everyone in our families also have bees. So we're just many bees and it's too much of that bad energy. Yeah. I remember my mom telling me, oh, you're mean, you're this, you're that and I'm telling, yeah, yeah, yeah, I am. At least for me, I told her, whatever happens in our family, I have to give it back to you guys. Because my career demands that I am kind, I am nice, I am a listener, I am very soft to people.

27:44So this hardness you're giving me, I have to give it back to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, look at, look at life. So I told them, I have to do that. I have to and unfortunately, yeah, so they didn't like it. I did, I did the boundary, even with my credit. I was going to ask people who are in no contact, what did boundaries? Because boundaries, second boundaries in an African family needs, it's a different chapter in psychology courses. I feel like we can't just import the curriculum from outside because it's a different terrain. Right. So what did setting boundaries in your African family look like? So with your grandmother and with your mother. So I just started calling people out. It was very messy. I actually tell people in my third episode, you a mess has to come out. You can't expect that these are mess inside your system and it stays there and you're crying. Now me, I was messy.

28:45People see your cool column and collected, no, you call out people. Yeah. So for me, I just started calling out people. If you do something, I'm like, no, you can't do that. You can't say that. Even to my grandmother, I wasn't received. No one day, she's told me something and I told her. And I cried. I don't remember what I said. No, I told her, no. She said something and I told her, don't worry, next time I won't even come. I thought you're talking about it, I won't come. She's like, no, I didn't mean it like that. I said it cried. Then I was like, yeah, this one is always like that. She's always sensitive. So it was a whole mess. I told her, yeah, I'm sensitive and I'm gonna cry. And if it took to me like that again, I won't come here. It was a big deal. Because nobody there stand up to the matriarch of the family. Yes. Hey, you told her, yeah, me, you can't talk to me like that. And then now I continue, now when my dress lifted, I saw how much more she talks and she's... And I was like, you can't do that. So it was a mess.

29:45It was like, what do you mean? But do you know I turned the lion, the big lion? Because after that I go to a house, you can see she's trying not to talk too much. Because clearly they talk aggressively, she tries not to. And she's with me, she's like, yeah. She thinks. And I was like, yeah, if an eight-year-old can change how they talk to someone, so can anyone. Yes. And you know what the boundary is? Like boundary, boundary work is one of the hardest. Hey, I used to cry from my therapist, her name is Faith. I remember first, I used to think I can explain my boundaries. So, in therapy to be clear, I don't have these specific healthy boundaries in my family or whatever. And I would be like, ah, make sense. And I would go and explain to the people who any boundaries is like, hey, it's not moving in a very healthy way. Perhaps if we didn't have the last, and the fire that would come, I would be so confused.

30:48And so distraught, you start doubting whether the boundary is the issue. And I remember once my therapist saying, you're going to have to decide who's the therapist in your life. Because we can't, it's like we're taking one step then one step back. Because you're going to explain, is it you who's the therapist? Are we here as a group or so? It was the hardest experience for me. And then because you hope that they're going to receive you 12. But you're the villain. Yeah. And I realized you just have to be okay. You have to be okay with the villain. Did you experience girls trying to set boundaries with your family? No. No, no, no. By the end of the day, I was ready. I have been good for whatever. How many 29 years? Yeah. I was just done. Yeah. That's what I told you. For me, the dress had lifted. I was not long a good. Yeah. Even now I feel like I'm not worried if anyone says, oh, if one is me, no, no. Because I'm fine.

31:48Yeah. I'm bad. Yeah. I'm the villain. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not really good at people who are, if you try to be the good person, the people who are wrong for you, you know, then you'll be the wrong person, you know, it's like looking for validation from people who are monsters, you know, Yes. hoping that, oh, they like you and they think you cute and nice, oh, no. Yeah. They always want you to be so. You know, a shrink. Be a small version of yourself. And the only time they'll approve of you is when you continue with their narrative. Yes. So for me, I'm okay being the villain. Actually, I even said, for me, I'm ready. And luckily, there are few things that make me not the villain. People who know me. But people who don't know me and hear me saying, this yeah, they'd be like, oh God, she's so, yeah. That's fine. Tell me about deciding to go no contact. Okay, so the grace is lifted. Yeah. You have the final incident, the grace is lifted. We don't have to go into the final incident,

32:49you know, comfortable. The grace is lifted. What are the steps of no contact? Like, if it's, and no contact with your family, including your mom, do you explain? Hey guys. From now on, I'm just going to be in touch. Or like, what does it look like? I knew, okay, one thing I know, I've tried to put boundaries, even moving out and then moving back in and moving out. Yeah. I know how the reaction would be. I know how a boundary is treated in a home that's very volatile. So there's one time I moved out without telling my mom and the things she wrote to me on me, so my mom doesn't, we don't talk on the phone. So messages, luckily I deleted them, but they were. So up to today, that was 20, 21. I've never forgotten. So I knew if I'm being a boundary, I have to protect myself. Any boundary you have to make sure, this person who you're dealing with, you know them,

33:51and you know how to deal with them, such that they don't hurt you again, even if it's the last time. So I just, since I was supposed to go for family, holy day with them, I didn't, because my heart had already moved on. I was like, yeah. I think I can find another family if it's that family. If I need a family. Yeah. So I was like, no, so I let him go. My son went for the vacation and then they came back and then I went for him. I was still supposed to pick him and go with him. At that point, but it was, it was hard, because you see most people, I've done, I think that most people wouldn't do. Yeah. Because my mom had also taken my son to school as in she was paying for him. So it was a new school for like two times. But now when she's paying for him to school, what does that mean? Ooh. She can hold my net like this and just continue to kill me. Yeah. Whatever is left of me, because she can do anything, say anything. Ask for anything. Yeah. Ask for compliance. My identity doesn't matter. What I want doesn't matter. Yeah. Because I should be grateful, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

34:51So I was like, no, by the way, I'm moving. Because she told me, you can't keep moving your son because I've also moved. Yeah. I've had like five jobs. Yeah. So I've moved my mom, Basta, Kiyambu. Yeah. So she's like, you can't keep moving your son. And then, and then, and then. By one thing I know, if you're with your child and you help them through the transition, they are going to be fine. Yeah. The problem is if you're still a monster during the transition. So I promised myself, I will be a good person, a good parent, sorry. A good parent during this transition. And I will sacrifice myself and my discomfort to help him through it. So I said, I'm gonna do it again. So I, they came back from vacation. I picked him, I was supposed to take him for the weekend, no, for the new years or something. I took him and then I let it sit, because now I had time. And then I thought and thought and then I asked to ask you to keep it. Yeah. Yeah, even therapy is actually so. Then, because I was like, I told the, but there is church activity, everything. Yeah, yeah. I was like, there's no shape by the way.

35:52We know you don't do it. I told you, I told you to know. Yeah. This is how we're going here. And I even asked it about how, how much I would need, because I was in time. You know, they had left employment because of the self-worth money. So I had to know how do I don't, I had to don't get that as well. Yeah. Even the school, his school. Yeah. So I did all that. And then I on fourth January or around there. Yeah. I sent a message, I need space. I think it was very neat. Yeah. church activity does a good job of making your thoughts organized. Yeah. You can call, you can go for therapy. Yeah. You can go for therapy and still, I'm not saying you don't have to come for therapy, but you can do both. Yeah. So I organized my message, I sent it to my mom. Yeah. And then I think she was loading. So she told me, God bless you and some weird thing. And then later on she's like, now you're going to change Nathan's school. Then I was like, hey, now she's starting to think. So I was like, let me block her. Yeah. I block her. Then my grandma calls the next day. I block her because I know she was just going to be like,

36:54how dare you? You know? Block her best friend calls me everywhere. Yeah. Even on Gmail. On, I don't even know how good we call. Yeah. She, I block, I don't, I didn't block her actually. I just didn't pick up one. And then that was it. So we went to no contact. And I think when I'm is having a ball, she's having the time of her life. I don't think it's that deep. Yeah. To her. Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's that deep. I feel like at first she was like, how dare you? Yeah. But I don't think I was what she needed. And and we're not she didn't love herself enough to love me the way I wanted. And so it's fine. Yeah. So I think sometimes it's funny in my head when I think of the songs I think go through her mind. Because I think she doesn't have a hard time. Not being around someone who needs so much attention and love. Yeah. That's like with that heartbreaking. To accept that that's a very heavy statement.

37:55Yeah. But you see, I've been accepting that for the for the whole of my life that she doesn't have enough space to hold space for me the way I need. Throughout my childhood, because she gave birth to someone who's highly sensitive, highly intuitive, and very expressive, creative, none of that was appreciated. And none of that is ever going to be held in that space. So the heartbreak was happening, but I at least when I accepted it, it was kind of final, but it was like a funeral. You know, like it's like losing someone who's alive. Yes. So that's usually my story, but it's better than living through the trying. Yeah. Or the heart or the, you know, thinking, hoping that there's going to be a better. And the story. Yeah, and the cost that hasn't. Or the environmental health and the main emotional. But I feel so free. Yeah. I've gotten clarity of mind. Yeah. I've been able to want more for myself. Yeah. I think I was so stuck in that phase where I just thought everything is.

38:58Yeah. I need to. Yeah. I don't want so much. Life. I don't deserve good things. Yeah. Right now I'm like, you know, and it's so interesting. The correlation between cutting them off. Yeah. And then now realizing, oh, no, you deserve all good things that are possible for you. Yeah. Yeah. Was there like what are the emotions after the blocking and the now it's final, no contact with you people? Okay. Because you're saying it's like grieving someone who's alive. Yeah. Right. So what does that grieving look like? What emotions are you feeling at that point? Like immediately afterwards. Immediately. I was scared. Yeah, I was going to ask for their fear. Right. Yeah, I was scared. Yeah. Like, you know those guys have, okay, I didn't have money at that point. So I was, I had, I had gigs, whatever work. That was parodic. So I didn't have money the way they did. I'm saying they cause it's my family. Yeah. So they could support, you know, I could live in the house.

39:59I could just, he could, my son could be paid food fees from there. Yeah. No contactment. I take all the financial, but bad, they're not, the financial responsibility of myself. Yeah. Which is a lot, you know. So I was like, hey, will I manage, you know, those kind of questions, um, wondering whether I might need them. You know, there's this thing people say, don't ban a bridge because you might need them. Mm. Make sure. Make sure. Make sure. Yeah. I don't need those people. Yeah. And you better bring people who can, I might need if I need. Yeah. And that, that advice needs to be given in context. I feel like some bridges need to be banned. And even if you're given in context. And the crazy thing is, I even used to get sick because of that stress, you know. Yeah. May I have stomach issues, gut issues, my gut even is now getting better, but I had gut issues because of all that. Yeah. Stress. Yeah. So I think, anyway, I think people come, I mean, when you think about your support system,

41:02now with clarity, you realize they still people, you know, they still a community, not a community support. Yeah. So you're not at the all alone. Yeah. Yeah. So first there was fear. Yes. You were a bit scared of that. I was. Yeah. So what other emotions are there? You say there was fear. What else did you feel immediately after going to no contact? Really. If I felt like, like I was carrying a burden, and then I let it down, you know. And it was a huge burden. I think you don't realize until you let it go because it's not only my mom, it's my grandma, these dynamics, these expectations. Yeah. They don't even make sense, you know, because those kind of families were these chaos, volatile energy, aggression. Even the stories you listen to from other families, it's aggression. Yeah. You're like, eh, it is, yeah, Shukisha, you know, let me just light from this, whatever. Yeah. You know. So I felt nice. Yeah. I was just me and my son, and my son is really, I don't know, I don't know what to say,

42:04please, but he's really nice. He's really, he's just, I don't know what to say, he's a good person, you know. So he, I'd be the one who's now the volatile, I'd be done to check myself. Yeah. He's just good vibes. If he's saying anything, I think because of now this therapy thing of mine, he's like, it's okay. He knows how to say the right thing. Yeah. So I'm like, okay. So now I can be my own person. And if there's anything toxic happening in this house, it's me. Yes. So I took responsibility. I felt there was a lot of responsibility coming in, but she lived. I lived. I lived. Even now I feel very, very, very. Yeah. But now as the months went by, I started feeling angry. Oh my God. Yeah. That was like, yes. I wasted all this, you see, because I spent a lot of work from when I was, let's say, what? I worked for like nine years. Yeah. So all this nine years, I've wasted my nine years. I would have been somewhere. Yeah. You know, if I wanted more for myself from when I started working, I'd be somewhere. So me, I've taken low salaries.

43:04I've come from a high salary to a low salary because the volatility of being in a family that's chaotic is even your life is. Yeah. It's all over the place. Yeah. And nobody wants to even accept that it's there, that in that environment that costs that. Yeah. Because there used to quit jobs. All these jobs I've left, I quit. All of a sudden, I'm coming from a high salary. I'm okay with a low salary. I'm okay with living. It was just not working. My brain cells were not coordinating for my better good. Why? Because I was thought that I'm not that important. Yeah. So I feel very angry. And then now the anger comes to, no, I'm going to take charge. Yeah. All these people, you know, they can go to whenever. Yeah. I'm going to work on it. You know, so I used to go, I go through the anger and then I come back to, no, I have to make it better. Yeah. And I can make something out of this. The same way my teen mom's story, by the, my teen mom's story, I made a lot of, I just that story. And that's how my career picked up when I was that young.

44:06And so even so I was saying, okay, I know it might seem bad. It's worse. It's a worse story because there's a villain, yeah. Yeah. There are a few villains including myself. Yeah. So I was like, but I'm going to make the best of it. And I'm going to make the world a better place. And you know, and raise awareness about this. Of course, it might put myself on the line. Yeah. I have to do it because why did I go through it? Yeah. Just to twist ten years of my life, many years of my life. So I was like, okay, so I go through the anger then I come back to. What does that anger feel like? And I asked this, I feel like this is just my question, right? Yeah. But like for me, because I really struggle with anger. Really? Oh my God. I got in better, but it was so bad. My doctor, not even my therapist, like my GP. You know how the right for you prescription? Yeah. One of her was like, get angry more often. She even told me like, if I get a call, that you have been arrested because you broke

45:06things because you're angry. I'll get you very happy. I'll be very happy. I'll come and get you. I'll come and get you. I'll come and get you. Yeah. Because I just like, I don't want you to be this angry. No, no. No, I think. I think angry. Yes, but now I'm learning. It takes me a while. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like a while I would say even a year. Yeah. You could do something to me. You could do Kanna Me now. And next year I'll be like, hey, man. No. That would be really, you know? But like, what did an angry moment look like? And what's a healthy way of like channeling it out? Yeah. One thing. So I thought it'd run me. Yes. It's running. Yeah. And the third running is good. You know, it's running shakes your whole body. It feels yeah. Definitely creative. I do. Okay. So I do play therapy. Yeah. So I went for a play therapy course. Oh, and that really helped me figure out my family. And what is play therapy?

46:07Hey, play therapy. So play therapy you can do sand, sand, play sand with toys in the sand. Yeah. Or you can do play therapy with play with toys with themes. Yeah. So you as a therapy teacher's toys with themes that now when this child or this adult plays out, you can figure out where their mind is at. So when we did that course, I really liked it because this facilitated me that's do everyone. Yeah. Okay, I think anyone who wanted. Yeah. So I did. I played out. Hey, you don't know what I played out. Yeah. Last year, I played out a police station. Our home was a police station. My grandmother was a lion. Yeah. My mother was a small lion. Then there was an uncle of mine who really abused me together like 20, 20, 23 December. Yeah. He was an elephant. Then my auntie, who was having some who had issues with substance, I put her as a cheat as a what's it called? Cheetah? No. Yeah. Pretty animal, but it's still a predator. Yeah.

47:07Yeah. So her, it's because the only first leg she could come out of it, but she was stuck in there. And then who else? And then I was a plane. I was a plane, but I was upside down. I didn't even realize. She asked me, why did you put yourself as a plane as like because I'd want to go somewhere out of this country? And then she was like, and then why you not, why you upside down? Do you think you're going to go? No. That's usually so interesting. And I was like, yeah, I actually had a problem with. Yeah. Then my son was a unicorn. So I was like, okay, I really, but I really think he's godsend, you know? Yeah. And I hope I could break the cycle for him. Yeah. So I was interesting in that day after that, I think, you know how you load things, dress in your house because if your house is a police station. There's a big problem. Yeah. I didn't choose any house. And there were many houses that the rapid room was well-endowed, not like you know? So, yeah. So I think play therapy, anger, anger for me. So when I do my play therapy with, sorry, with my clients, it helps me to

48:10to play out. For me, I think staying with kids is a really therapeutic. Yeah. And then I also, I go out, I loaded my friend. I think that's also a way to just get out, anger and be out and have fun and play. Yeah. And then, so running, what else? But me, I'm an angry, but I allow myself to be angry. Like if you say something and I feel like, yeah, but where have you seen that? I wouldn't say it's like rough, I'm a very rough, but I'm very, I call out fast enough. So it's not an out-bust. I think many people wait to have an out-bust. Yeah, because it piles and piles and piles. If I say something wrong to you right now, I tell you correct me immediately. It won't be as bad. Yeah. But if I tell you like five things, one day you're going to tell me something. And then you start to hit me for one year. Yeah. I didn't, like, one hour, how dare you. Yeah. Exactly. But if you tell me one, I think, what did you just say? Yeah. So me, I catch myself, I call people out. I also just speak, I think nowadays, I allow myself to act.

49:13Yeah, I don't keep it in, I just act. But I think angry energy is the best fuel for anything you ever going to do. Yeah, I think my anger, even at the time when I was a teen mom now, I feel like it's such good fuel. Yeah. Yeah, you could use it and it's motivation. I don't think anything else much is that motivation. And it feels, what I will say, having done some work and letting myself be angry. It feels like I'm standing up for myself. And that feels so good. Like, even just, even before I confronted Ivan, I said ABCD that made me angry. When I feel the anger, I'm like, oh, so it means internally we agree that that's not not so cool. Yeah. We're standing up for ourselves rather than before where if you're people, you say you're the same. Yeah. It's okay. Yeah. We've been the anger sets. You're like, ah, don't be too sensitive. You're ready to reduce yourself, right? Yeah. I also mentioned therapy, helping you see where we started off the episode that you,

50:18the identities that you had who you were was based on your environment, the police station, right? Yeah. Yeah. But that, also, that police station also made you overwork. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that came up in therapy? Yes. Okay. Yeah. My nine, eight year career by last year, I had not been paid my worth. But now what happened? I never talked about money. My salary is... Anyway, I talked about it. Because, oh, I thought it was proper. Yeah. I talked about money. So one day last year, I said, let's talk about money with a fellow, I was at school council at that point. So I talked to the school council. She was like, girl, I thought you were being paid. You know now, you see how... You see, there's a way people look at you. There are people see you. Yeah. Your work. So there's a... They assume how much you're being paid based on what they're being paid. Mm-hmm. So she told me, what do you... Mm-hmm. So I told her, I said she was like...

51:18I told her the first one. The one before? Yeah. At least the first one we were together with her. So she was like, okay, fine. I agree. That fast job we were being paid less. But then you went lower than that. Mm-hmm. So she was really mind blown. And she told me, no, no. Now there's something wrong with you. Yeah. So she's also a therapist and she's also a clinical psychologist. Yeah. She told me, you know what? I don't want to bother you with too much. She just goes for therapy because I think they start seeing. Yeah. Because now where my salary was last year, was where I had started. Um, like eight years ago. She shouldn't have been the case. Yes. Because I was still doing more work. I was still going up the, you know. Um, and I had more experience. Yeah. So she... Gosh. So I went for therapy. She told me just to go. Yeah. So I realized self-worth. Um, so what happens when you have self-confidence, you don't bother thinking about yourself worth. Okay. What's the difference between the two? Self-confidence is that I can come here and talk, I'm good at talking, I'm good at

52:19showing up, I'm good at, um, whatever I need to do. I'll do. And I'm not very young, she has about it. But then myself worth, I didn't feel worth you good things. Yeah. So I'll come and do and do and do and do and do. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I'll be myself, like chilling myself. No. I'm just doing. Yeah. I'm okay doing. Because you see confidence, what happens? I have self-confidence because when you're in a very volatile place, you're pushed. Yeah. Yeah, like no, one thing I can tell you for free. One thing I'm did really well is she made me so confident. You know, when someone is very afraid, rushes with you. She pushes you to think too, you know. Yeah. And it's a bit also, she's pushing you, but she's also very hands off. So you have to think, you have to feel, you have to, a lot of things. So I'm a good doer. But I'm not a good being person. I'm a good at being Ivana. Yeah. So I really prove myself and I think now they sell for what doesn't come from being. What does they come from? From being.

53:21So what am I good for without doing anything for anybody? Mm-hmm. What's good about me when I'm bedrouting the whole day? Yeah. And I'm a good body. Of course. Yeah, there are good things about my personality, about who I am, about how I feel, not how I look, not what I do, but who I am. Yeah. And many women forget that you're not what you do. Yes, you're who you are. The essence. And if you don't have essence, then you're nothing, you know. Because then if you're not doing, then you're nothing like me. Like that's how I was. Yeah. And she's like, okay, when I go to work, I have to do. Because if I'm not doing, I feel like I'm nothing, you know, I'm not important. Yeah. That time everyone thinks, oh, school can't allow this psychologist. Yeah. Me and me are thinking, I have to do a new project, new awareness, new stickers, new, you know. So my self-worth was not there. But self-confidence people think, okay, this guy is confident, she's fine.

54:25Is she? Is she? I didn't even think I was worth being hard. That's why I would talk first. You know, when you're talking fast, when you're talking, you're not finishing your sentences, you don't feel like you're worthy of being hard. Yeah. You're not worthy of being seen. So you won't go out of your way to look good. Yeah. Because you're not worthy to be seen. Are you valuable? Oh, no. Because now you're going to take everything and everyone and, oh, you're going to do this. Okay. Oh, you want to do something like that, fine. So I think the self-worth, I didn't have. I had self-confidence and covers up a multitude of meaningful people like she knows what, she's a go-getter. Wow. Come back. I actually don't like what you mean. Yeah. Any of those names. So I feel learning how to be and learning that even now in this police station, no one is appreciative of who I am. Because even you yourself. No. I was not like, who are you?

55:26I realized the things about me that are inside are things I don't know. And also things that I have to know, self-discovery. So I think I've used self-discovery as a tool all along because I realized, oh, there's so much about me. And I think it doesn't end at all. It doesn't end. Yeah. And this is such a yummy conversation. Yeah. I'm like, with self-discovery, there's something that I shared about on one of our previous issues about how to, especially when you've lost yourself in relationships, what does some habits that kind of like get to know yourself? And it's just like your notes app on your phone. When you discover something about yourself, just write it in there. And it doesn't have to be this big thing. It can just be like, I've discovered I really love, and this one is mine actually. I really love spotting birds sitting on a power cable. Oh. I can't explain it guys. And I see it. I'm just like, and it's like, oh, or the type of music you like.

56:28I really like Afrobeets or I really like Reggae. Or I'm a fan of this particular artist or food. You know, oh, I didn't know. I like Lasagna or I don't really like cheese. Yeah. All of these things like are, you're like getting to know yourself. Every day. Every day. Your self discovery looked like what does it look like for you? I try new things. I try to talk to new people. I talk to new people. I alarm myself even when I don't think we get a, like, we're going to let alone for the long for the long time. I talked to you, it was this thought process. So I found out I'm very extremely open minded. I alarm myself to hear people. You know, understand different ways of thinking. So I can discover myself through what they know about life and what about themselves. But also just so I have a self-discovery workbook. So you know questions. Yeah. So it's an e-book. So I just all those questions have answered myself.

57:30Yeah. So it's just asking myself questions, questions. Because I'm like, you know, if you never asked, you never know. Yeah. You don't know. So like now if I ask myself what kind of makeup do I like? What kind of hair do I like? Yeah. Like now hair, I even told my saloon is bitter. You're gonna be tired. Yeah. I'm gonna try all the colors I want. Yes. Because we need to find which one we like. Clothes? Yes. Because I mean even clothes. There's so many types of clothes. Yeah. And you're like, okay, I don't think I tried all of them. Yeah. I probably just wore official dresses. Yeah. So I was like, okay, we are trying everything. Yeah. And it's interesting. I mean discovering yourself is all layers financially. What do I want? I never, I never thought of my finances properly. Yeah. And it's interesting because you know in this family, this chaotic family, police station family, they don't let them say you have to save. You have to buy land. You have to, you know, like some sporadic advise all over the place. Yeah. But it never truly gave me any sense of my finances. Yeah. I just, I think I just felt so overwhelmed.

58:32I mean, but now when I left, I'm able to think, okay, I want to save this much. You know, slow, yeah. Slow, yes. Then they do it so fast. You don't even have a chance to kind of settle into it and think, okay, how do I want to do it? Yeah. And the guidance. Then there's this thing called abundance of mindset that also you're taught from that family, but they don't have it. Because I was thinking another, I don't know if this is now tier. But there was something I was thinking about. Like, why wouldn't you have a washing machine, you know? Yeah. Why wouldn't you, there's something softly. Yeah. When they were telling me, my grandma, you know me, I don't like wash clothes. And I never wash clothes. Yeah. And wash from me my clothes or I get a washing machine. The way she looked at me, it was like, ugh, and I'm like, do you know what it is as well? Yeah. I think there is a glorification of struggle in womanhood. It's a bit of that. It's a bit of, probably also a bit of colonial trauma.

59:34And the things that older generations experience. And because sometimes, even with me, because I really want to completely live in a thriving mindset, not in a survival mindset. So there times I'll catch myself, maybe denying myself something, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, no, no, no, catch up on that. So quick, we've not even had that much to do. Well, you know, and I have to say to myself and say, okay, no problem. Yeah. So that money you were going to spend on that thing, well, where were you going to put it? Maybe even it. And you realize, it was not going to go anywhere, right? So it is that. And I really hope more women can add, if you're privileged enough to have softness within your definition of womanhood. And the crazy thing is, as you afford the small softness, you'd be able to afford the bigger one, because you're able to even attract more. Yes. I realize the more you're like a softness, you're like, oh, I can do this.

1:00:34I can do this. And that you deserve it. And that you deserve it. You deserve all good things. Yes, that are possible for us. Yeah. This is so incredible. Okay. Community and support system, right? Yeah. Because obviously there's a fear. And people, we tend to gravitate towards being part of others. Yeah. People, but still goals or whatever. So do you then, after going to contact, start building community or support systems? So for me, I'd say support systems. Okay. I think community now, the only thing about community, but then they also have their norms, and their beliefs, that could be limiting as well. Yeah. So for me, I'm very, very careful, because like for church, I used to think church is a community for me. Yeah. So in Mumbai, I had a good church, blah, blah, blah.

1:01:34I just found, front times. After I cut off my family, I tried to go to church, even the ones I've gone to before, different branches, was it fitting in? No. I don't know. I mean, there are so many limits. The other day I go to church and someone talks about how parenthood should be done as a thing, and I'm like, I don't think we're gonna get along. So then I tried to join a Safari group, you know, I church, this is a Safari group thing. I went for one day to, I'm like, eh, this will not even thrive things, it's fine. Yeah. So unfortunately for me, I decided, community is a big limiting, because you have to, when you join a community, if you're gonna be in harmony, which I really value, harmony, if you're in a community and you have to be harmonious, you have to conform to their worth thinking. Yeah. I don't want to conform right now. Yeah. I've been hurt by conforming. Yeah. So I'm trying not to conform. So I think support system, and so think about support system in what I need. Yeah. Social support, do I need emotional support?

1:02:37Do I need financial support, financial lessons? What do I need? And then I just break it down, also realizing that human beings are limited. So looking for people based on their strengths. Yeah. As opposed to, now you, if you're my community, you have to be everything. Yeah. If you're good at social support, that you're gonna go out, have a good time, go back home. When I'm sad, I'm not calling you, it's who you're fun. Let's call Nani who is very confident. Yeah. Yeah. So I just diversify my support system as opposed to we are one. Yeah. I think that are now for me, I don't know if it's getting over. Yeah. Because I try to judge again. And I'm just thinking, hey, by the way, I sit there, I listen to the preaching, it makes sense sometimes. It helps sometimes. But sometimes I just like, I, we are gonna agree. I'm gonna be a bad judge, but you know, and I don't want to keep on being bad everywhere. Yeah. And if it's not as faces as this version of it, it's also okay. And maybe it might have a future version. But I believe in God,

1:03:38so God is part of my support system. On His own, you know, not as a now community. Yeah. So I think for me, it's work like that. So I'm thinking more of support system as India. And it's helped. Because you see now I'm able to, to what is it called categorize people? Yes. Not in a bad way, just everyone in their own box. And even me, I know their boxes, people have put me in, cause I'm good at that. There's some I'm not good at. Like if you told me physical support, let me tell you that so much, come and help you with physical work. You know, I won't cut it. Okay. And my last question is around traditions. Because I have a friend who every Christmas, he hosts people who don't want to be with their family. Well, I'm gonna see you guys next time. Right? And it's the funniest thing, but it's the most necessary thing. It's always full. It's always full.

1:04:39And so I realize that you have to build new traditions. So even if you're not no contact with your family, you could find that you have boundaries that then don't allow you to say if it's Christmas or Easter or those specific times of year, where a typical African family gathered together, you feel like it's not safe for me. Yeah. So are you gonna build your own traditions or have you thought about that? Well, first of all, I'm just thinking about, that's interesting. I think I won't disembark. I definitely have to take him for holiday so that he knows this holiday will not be pegged on the previous tradition. Yeah. That he can still go for that tradition. Because for me, I tried that vacation the other year. A, and I felt like we went to such a good place. Yeah. But the only way I felt, my feelings were like madly. You know, like I was like, eh, I even have to go back to that place.

1:05:40Because I didn't enjoy. And I was not who chose that place. Yeah. It was not fun. You know, just being policed, being like, wow. Yeah. So I think I do want to have policed. That's one thing I don't put in there. Yeah. And I'll do them how I can afford. You know, again, that's the other thing. Just realizing that you don't have to go all out. Just choose a place that fits you. We both stay there. Have a good time. For traditions, again, I'm going to think about it. I think the rest I don't mind. We've not been going. Yeah. But Christmas for sure, we have to go for vacation. They're the rest. But I'm a harmonious person. One thing, even before we lost, before I went to no contact with my mom, I was telling how many really value community. Like, I really wish our family was. You know, so definitely something I build. But when I feel safe, and when I'm sure the people around are like, okay, we can do it with this. Maybe this support. I can combine these few people. Yeah. Yeah, I think about it. But I think, again, no rush.

1:06:40Slow. Yeah. I'm trying to be more slow, relaxed in the line. So yeah, and at least, oh, no, I have a support group for that. Yeah. I think the best thing about me is that I create things from what I went through. So there's a support group for fast and furious to family in women. Oh my goodness. This sounds so interesting. Yeah. I was like, I was like slowing down things. I love that from fast and furious. So I was like, let me just create this. The same way I said when I heard the teen mom's thing, I think it's very to that group. I mean, just deciding that this thing is not only me. And you see, because even as I do sessions with other women, I realize it's a common issue. We all just are fast and furious and we don't enjoy it. Yeah. We would love to. Yeah. You know, so for me, I think those guys might be, I don't know, we'll see. Yeah. But yeah, so we have, like, I'm going to plan something with them for just as in a service, but then obviously I enjoy.

1:07:41Yeah. Yeah. And then from there, I'll see. I mean, yeah, but holiday and the support groups that I've created, that one I've created. And I might create more things. Who knows? I was going to say, as you discover yourself. Yeah. Right? Yeah. No rush. So as we wrap up, what is the manless message that you want to leave to women watching with? And like, you can tell her directly. OK, I think it's OK to say no. And when something doesn't serve you, let it go. And allow yourself to be mean to be, you know, to be fussy, sensitive. All those things that you're told are too much. Allow yourself to be all those things. And sometimes just be a bitch. It helps. Yeah. Even if you're my therapy client and you're watching this, yeah, being a bitch helps, OK? Yeah. It's like people would not bitch, OK? But it's very important. Yeah. I think, I think, and you know the context.

1:08:44Yeah. Like that you know, I need to stand up for myself. For sure. Yeah. Ivana, this has been so wonderful. My goodness. Thanks. Thank you for being so open and sharing about your journey. I think, especially when it comes to families and boundaries and no contact, it's people are very scared of talking about that story. And also because of how we socialize, they are to your suffer rate, right? And even within a family, you still need boundaries. You still need to have boundaries. Yeah. So thank you. Thank you so much. I've learned a lot and I hope that you have learned a lot too as you're watching this episode. And in the description, we put a link to all of Ivana's platforms so that you can follow her and get updated with everything that she is creating and all the tips that she shares. And thank you so much for watching this episode and being part of our Manila's community. Remember to subscribe so you don't miss out on the next episode and share this one

1:09:46with all the Manilists and almost Manilist women in the life.