What Next - The Knockdown Dragout Fight for Max Miller's House Seat

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1:07a Democrat who is running for Congress in Ohio. Because if you want to understand the optimism some Democrats are feeling right now, his campaign is a pretty good place to start. First things first, there is the candidate himself. Brian is an iron worker, union guy. He likes to say he built the wooden lectern he used to launch his campaign. He's also got political experience. He served as a city councilman. Then there's Brian's opponent, Trump favorite Max Miller, who this summer began to face one horrific headline after another. Allegations of abuse from his ex-wife. Allegations that were backed up by her father, want to go high as sitting Republican senators. Before all this, Brian was a long shot in his deep red Ohio district. TV ads were a luxury he couldn't really afford. But now things are pretty different.

2:08With the way things are going, I don't think working people like you and me are going to hold on much longer. How many ads have you done now? Yeah, we've done a couple and there may be a couple more. Do you like doing them? I was reading that you told a crowd in Medina that going on TV is kind of a nightmare. It is. It's something that I had to learn to do. I've always been behind the scenes kind of guy. Just going to work, providing for my family. Yeah, a lot of your ads feature you shimmying up a beam because you've been an iron worker for so long. I don't want to correct you, but when it's standing vertically, it's a column. Still an I beam just. I guess yeah, beam is. Oh, I think it's a very famous horizontal mark. Our dad, Brian Poindexter, has been working since he was 15. Brian's first ad featured his daughters. Any always shows up for family dinner for our games? Help us homework, even when it's not helpful. He shows up for every. It was sweet.

3:08Also, a not so subtle reminder that Brian Poindexter's family seems to like him. I run the jail and Ohio's fourth largest county. I know what the worst of the worst looks like. Max Miller's one in recent days Brian's ads have gotten more pointed. I'm with suspicious bruising 34 years of law enforcement tells me Max Miller does not belong in power. You just released an ad which features a sheriff basically talking about these allegations against Max Miller. Max Miller sent cease and desist letters. He tried to prevent this ad from airing, but it sounds like the local TV stations were like, yeah, we're just we're going to air it. Yeah, I mean, he's he's doing what he's done his entire life. Throw you know, throw money at a problem, you know, hire fancy lawyers to to hide the hide the truth about the incidences that he's, you know, been wrapped up in. And this is just another example that he doesn't want people to find out the facts about him. And the facts are that, you know, he's been credibly accused by three different women. Republican women, both United States senators from Ohio has said he's unfit to serve.

4:13And the people who know him best say they hold their breath whenever his daughter is in his custody. I mean, I don't think that's somebody that Ohio seven wants representing them. And certainly not somebody I want representing me. It's raised me. There's a whole lot of finger pointing going on in your race, but I'm not sure there's a whole lot of like regular, regular politics happening. Like are you and Max Miller going to do a debate anytime soon, where people could just come and see you talk about the issues theoretically? Well, I mean, that would be that would be a surprise to see Max Miller out in public. He hasn't been in public for quite some time. You know, when there's a community event, he'll typically show up before the event before anyone gets there, take a few pictures and say, oh, I was at this great event, but he wasn't there. You know, he he doesn't want to be seen in public. And, you know, so no debate anytime soon. I'm doing I'm doing campaign stuff. You know, I'm doing candidate morons. I'm doing meet and greet. I'm doing do you want to do me? I'd be open to it. You know, I I I challenge, you know, I basically said I'm open to a debate

5:15anytime early in the cycle. And here we are with 39 days left. I don't know if there's room in the schedule for him to make time to come see his constituents in person. But, uh, but yeah, I mean, I'm open to a debate. I think the issues are I appreciate your side either. The way you said that. It's it's skilled, I will say. Oh, it's natural. Today on the show can Brian point Dexter introduce himself to enough voters to really have a shot in deep red Ohio. I'm Mary Harris. You're listening to what next? Stick around. Today's episode of Slates What Next is brought to you by Olympic hospitality. The Olympic games are coming to Los Angeles in 2028. This is a once in a generation event that you're not going to want to miss. It's more than a ticket. It's a story you share with your family and friends. And the ultimate way to get closer to the action is within Olympic hospitality package. Ticket inclusive

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8:27Holen Cancer is on the rise. It's the second deadliest cancer and the number one cancer killer of people under 50 in the US yet it remains one of the most preventable cancers. If you're 45 or older and at average risk it's time to talk about screening. Colorguard Plus is a non-invasive at-home collection kit that requires no prep can be completed in about 15 minutes and is 95% effective. If you've been putting it off you're not alone but timely screening matters. Let's talk about what isn't talked about. Talk to your provider or request Colorguard Plus online are ex-only. So there have been allegations of bad behavior against your opponent Max Miller for a very long time. As you've said they really popped off this summer when some documents came out from his divorce that that laid bare sort of some some really bad things that may have happened. And they sort of added to a pile of allegations that had been there since say 2021 against him and so I'm kind of

9:28curious. Did you see a vulnerable person here? Is that why you decided to run in this race? No, I know I um I mean I was aware of his allegations you know it's coming back from um you know Stephanie Grisham and even before that the Trump-Aid hated him who said that he was abusive. Yeah um but you know I got into this race because I see the working families you know myself my friends my family people in my community um doing everything right and just falling further behind that's that's why I got in the race because you know I feel that uh working people are the most underrepresented demographic in Congress. That's why you see policies like um you know the blanket tariffs that are really making it hard on working families and it and it's benefiting corporations in the wealthy you see the tax cuts from the one big beautiful bill that was one of the largest transfers of wealth on the bottom to the top. Yeah you see the support for the war in Iran that's driving up costs on family and it's because you don't have that person in Congress

10:32speaking up to what how that affects working people. But I feel like you've been on a political journey yourself like you've said you leaned for public in early on and you had this kind of come to Jesus. What what what was that? Because when you're talking to voters I would I would argue Ohio is a red state now. So you are speaking to people who may not think you as a Democrat have much to say to them. Yeah well when I and when I was a younger person especially young adult yeah I voted Republican I voted for George W twice uh voted for McCain um you know when he ran for president and I I really have I still have a lot of respect for uh John McCain and his service um but you know I I believed in the you know Republicans always say pull yourself up by your bootstraps and then I as I got older and more lived experience and realized that I am trying to pull myself on bootstraps but at every opportunity um but it was just it was just talking points for them. It wasn't backed up by any any tangible um legislation or policy that would help working

11:37people and and that that's kind of where I kind of started transitioning over to a Democrat you know uh come to Obama's second term I voted for Obama and and pretty much been a Democrat since. Was that hard? Did they feel like you were like swallowing something? No it was it was really just kind of like the natural order of things I you know I seen the policies on the Democratic side that oh man they want to they want to try to fight for better wages for working people they want to they want to fight for unions they want to fight for um quality affordable health care they want to shore up retirement you know so those are a lot of things that we work for and and to me it was it was a natural kind of natural transition I kind of had to uh it was kind of a metamorphosis that was happening over time in real time um back then. I think of your campaign as interesting to look at because it's indicative of a lot of problems that are haunting politics right now like um Max Miller your opponent his implosion has enabled you to do a lot financially like the Democratic Party

12:38switched how they saw your race they sort of juiced you with support um but some might say like why'd they wait why weren't they doing that before? Well they I'm sure they asked themselves the same question um the same questions that uh that voters ask like there's two questions they ask one why should we fire the person in there now right and uh and we know the reason not not only his personal life you know he supported all the initiatives that have got us to this point you know the the war in Iran the one big beautiful bill that's going to take a trillion dollars out of healthcare system um you know the tariffs uh and all those things that have driven costs so that's we know what a fire Max Miller why higher Brian point Dexter so if if if I didn't bring anything to the table nobody would support me nobody would get behind me nobody would vote for me but I'm bringing the perspective of the average everyday worker when when I go to congress and I look at a bill or a piece of legislation or a policy I'm going to be looking at it through the lens of a working

13:40person the average person in our district how is this going to affect them and that is where I think we have the most strength but it's but it's hard to maintain that like it's like that's this is the other thing I see with your campaign which is like you talk in your campaign a lot about like you know getting money out of politics no packs but your campaign you know you were supported by an AI affiliated pack and a lot of members of congress have talked about like it is difficult to run without a lot of money and so to me it's like it's like a really good summary of like where we are which is like someone like you you're saying you want money out of politics in order to get into politics you need the money the money is coming from a pack can you explain that to people who may see a disconnect there well I've never taken any money from any super pack I've never supported you right yeah yeah and that's you know that's what's they call an independent expenditure I cannot tell them to stop I cannot tell them to send it I cannot tell them that make an ad for me I cannot tell them what the put in the ad for me they chose to do that on their own and I am not

14:40beholden to them but you know the other side of it though too is you know we can fight for the world we want to live in while living in it as it exists if I you know if if I didn't take like union pack money for example I would I would be I would be I'd have no chance let's let's be frank about it I don't take corporate pack money I don't take a dark money or a special interest money I take you know grass grass roots fundraising is the lifeblood of our campaign you know I am supported by unions because I'm a union member and I'm going to fight hard to make sure people can join a union if they want but I also too you know I'm not beholden to any of them so I'll be confident and go into Congress and voting to ban dark money banning to overturn citizens united banning to you know voting to make sure we ban members of Congress from trading stocks I don't trade stocks my opponent does he traded over a million dollars in stocks just as a member of Congress

15:40in a in a state as red as Ohio I think a problem for you to overcome his name recognition coupled with his feeling of like why should I vote for a Democrat you know like in August the Ohio capital journal did an article where they they talked to voters in your district they talked to you they really like laid out the race I thought really well and they they really spent some time with a couple of voters you know including this woman Eileen Velasquez she relies on food stamps and she just felt so despairing about politicians in general and she didn't know who you are and I was like this is exactly the kind of person you want to reach but your challenge is actually reaching this person yeah how do you reach them well I want to start by saying you know Ohio is red lately right Ohio is always been a bell weather state can go it goes with the with the tide of the times you know like my district for example Donald Trump won by 11 points but

16:42shared brown would have won this district in 2018 right and it's whoever can most represent the issues facing working families my district you know very gerrymandered very diverse but the one thing that unites everybody in the district is everybody works hard for a woman now to the second point how do I reach that person that that is that is campaigning in itself right that's exactly what we have to do we have to get out that and and I do that by going to all that that's easy and like an urban environment right I feel like you're not you're you've got some Cleveland in there but like you're you have a lot of space to cover basically we actually don't have any of Cleveland proper we have the western and southern suburbs of Cleveland and then that's that's the kaihoga county portion and then we have all of Medina County all of Ashton County and the north half a Wayne County but yeah it is very spread out but you know we luckily we have over 900 volunteers who are willing to help out and and knock doors we're averaging over almost 4,000 doors a week canvassing you know that's why I'm at every event I

17:44could possibly go to you know pretty much hit all the all the parades in the district during parade season you know I fit all the county fairs I'm hitting Ashton County tonight I said earlier and you know that's that's how I can do it and can I reach everybody no it's humanly impossible but we can do everything we can to make sure that we engage with the voters and I'm not I'm not only engaging in you know people like her I'm even engaging with Republican voters meeting them or they are tell me about those conversations oh well you know the average Republican in the district is having the same issues that the average Democrat and the districts having the cost of living is number one top of mind you know we see gas prices you know approaching five dollars a gallon that that's hurt everybody it's it's nonpartisan the effects of this economy and effects of the erratic war in Iran this rising prices and and we're we're finding common ground on the issues that affect us all and that's what I set out to do is fight for you know better wages so we can afford the the the ebbs and flows of the economy you know fighting for quality affordable

18:53healthcare you know again my opponent voted to rip a trillion dollars out of healthcare that that cut you know I I'm not on Medicaid but the Medicaid cuts are going to affect me because my local hospital provides services that's funded in part by Medicaid and you know especially in the rural parts of the district you lose that funding you might lose that service now you got to drive in farther and then and then the third leg is retiring with dignity right social security is on the brink of collapse and you know Medina County for example a third of Medina counties income is social security income and if we were to cut that I mean that's going to be that's going to be detrimental to the services and standard living for people in Medina so we got to do every whatever we can do people say like that sounds like spending a lot of money what what what do you mean like what well like all everything you just laid out there sounds really expensive and like we have massive like debt issues right now yeah but none of that is none of that is uh is you know

19:57you know government driven it it's it's it's put in policies in place that you know employers employers can provide this we we know they can provide this stuff because we've seen it and like I grew up in the 80s for example and the 80s you know there was a stronger union presence and even non-union employers paid livable wages the wages were up with the cost of living people didn't have to worry about their social security run out we had pensions we had good quality healthcare and um you know and and we can get it back and it's it yeah it's by strengthening collective bargaining right so people can join unions freely without pressure from their employers it's it's about um you know restoring the cuts that were made to the uh to the ACA and to uh Medicaid um you know those are things that we've already done and already had in place and um it to me it makes sense it's an investment in our population uh rather than just investing in the corporations who are perpetually driving this we'll go back after quick break

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22:10I think about your race as one of the messiest out there because of Max Miller for sure your opponent but also because of stuff that Max Miller is making sure is out there about you and this is the part where we have to talk about the stuff you probably don't want to talk about I'm an open book. I'm an open book I don't care so I mean that so what has been put out about you is about how when you were younger a teenager you were arrested and allegedly tried to swallow some crack cocaine do you want to talk about that what's true yeah there what is it happy to talk about it and here are the facts fact number one I've never touched hard drugs in my life you know uh that I say that unequivocally absolutely never touch hard drugs in my life too um I don't know why the officer wrote the report that way uh it was I'm not saying he was lying what I'm saying is he was mistaken and what he saw um and and you know I was never charged and third

23:14I've been a union iron worker for 20 years I've taken random drug tests I've taken annual drug tests multiple times a year and have never failed a single one well and we should be clear that mother Jones are covered toxicol your poor showing your opponent Max Miller once crushed his car while under the influence of MDMA so yeah no one here and and he actually was on he was actually on uh an interview with Jake Tapper saying he couldn't remember the last time he took hard drugs and and I've never touched hard drugs I smoked a little marijuana when I was younger haven't smoked marijuana in over 25 years by the way um you know I and I've been open about my past I've gotten some fights I got in some traffic tickets come show about the fight the fight the fight is the thing that so this is um been reported as a fight a Cleveland Indians game and this is when you were old are you were like 34 I think and the the details I didn't I didn't get in any fight I was never arrested I was never charged I you know no well watching freebie can track down a guy who said he like dared you to eat a hot dog and he slapped him and he that article said I swallowed

24:15a hot dog hole without without chewing it did and then it said this guy wanted you to do it on video for him there's a lot going on here I will say it's it's it's it's it's complete nonsense it's it's it's it's crazy and and it's all it's it's all designed to distract from the fact that my opponent has been accused credibly by three different women of domestic violence including holding a gun to his wife's head and it's a distract from the fact that two sitting Republicans have said that he's unfit for office um and one one of whom holds his breath every time his granddaughter is in his his father's custody I mean that well to be like I thought if I'm a voter in Ohio I might feel like it's a gamble right like I about your temperament right I'm not sure if I've heard if I've just heard the word cloud of things you know yeah draw Galagation yeah you know fight at a baseball game I just might be like I don't know should I take or raise the thing or and here here's the thing here's the thing I have a record of nine years on Brook Park City Council

25:17where my temperament has been front and center for the public you know I I've been in the public on a more local level which local politics is more personal people get to know you better and the people of Brook Park know who I am they know what I stand for they know what I fight for and and you know they know me as a family man you know I I strong and family values I believe that you know I raised my daughters up to be good human beings and to be you know hardworking people and caring people and um that's what people know about me they know that I'm a hard worker they know that I stand up for my family and I stand up for my community and that's you know that's what people should take away from all this your race is getting down to the wire and I think the latest polling shows your eight points ahead um do you feel safe good strong like how are you feeling now as a candidate um I'm cautiously optimistic I I see the polling that everyone else sees yeah we have

26:22momentum and we have a great team and we have a lot of volunteers um polling looks good but we're not taking anything for granted I got to make sure people know who I am because you know it seems like a hard job it's a gift to get out there if you'd be like here's who I am you have to then convince them to vote for you and maybe against their like natural instinct right of like pulling the lever for the GOP well well they I mean like again they they've already answered question number one you know why should we fire Max Miller so there you know people are more open to giving me the opportunity because because they know that he's terrible not just in his personal life in his in his public life too he's been he's been erratic I mean he's had his word stricken from the record of Congress because of outrageous outbursts I've never had my word stricken from a city council meeting I've never been I've never been pulled out of a city event because I I was intoxicated you know like my opponent has you know and and uh you know people see that so they know why to fire him so they're giving me the opportunity to answer question number two and that's what I hope to do in

27:22the campaign is answer that question for them that I am the person that they should hire because I will represent their interests given your times did this article where they lash you together with a couple of other candidates and other places like one in Colorado the idea like these are unconventional candidates right often younger do you see yourself as like lash together with anyone else who's out there now in the ecosystem um no I mean I I've met other candidates along the way you know like Sam fourstag in uh in Montana and Bob Brooks in Pennsylvania and yeah we we have very similar similar backstories at being that we're all like hard blue collar workers give a group chat I do I chat with them here and there but no no group chat um but uh but no I like you know and and being you know being a worker running for Congress is out of the norm for me and it's it's out of the norm for them too so like you know we'll touch base here and there to say man what how are you doing how you holding up and anything that I can help you with or anything you can help

28:25me with and you know we kind of just are more of like kind of a support group for each other in that way but um but no I like I'm running my own race I wish them all the luck in the world I think we need more uh worker representation in Congress like again it's it we're the most underrepresented demographic in Congress and uh and you know I hope they're successful in their race but most importantly I'm I hope I'm successful in this race is there a story you tell people like when you're when you're like about a voter you've met or about like um something you just keep a touch tone as you're out there campaigning yeah I mean I there there's several stories that I can tell but one that I always kind of go back to is it's something that happened early on when I was uh canvassing for the first time um you know I was I had a list it was it was pre-primary um so I was knocking on Democrat doors to try to win the primary um but there was a guy moving some stuff into his house who wasn't on my list and I could tell by what he was wearing he had a 1776 shirt on with the black

29:25out flag on the sleeve I said hey I'm I'm Brian Poignock so I'm running for Congress I'm in the neighborhood that I'd introduce myself so I'm he's like he folds his arms like are you Democrat or Republican I was like I'm a Democrat and he scoffs and kind of starts walking I'm like let me give me a second I'm I'm the old school Democrat I believe in fighting for workers I believe in trying to bring people together you know I'm a union iron worker for 20 years he's like oh my buddy who's helping me is a union electrician and I said so he knows what I'm talking about and he knows what I'm fighting for and he gave me that he gave me the opportunity to talk to him and after that you know we had about a five ten minute conversation at the end of he was like you know what I'm gonna vote for you and that told me right then and there that we were doing the right thing and that we have an opportunity to bring people together and make no mistake our country is in disarray we are having a hard time right now and the only way we're gonna fix it is if we come together as as a community again and and we're seeing that in this campaign yeah good luck

30:26I'm really grateful to have you on the show thank you no happy to be here Brian Boyn Dexter is running for Congress in Ohio's 7th District and that's our show what next is produced by Evan Campbell Madeline Tens du Charm and Patrick Ford Pay Jozzburn is the senior supervising producer of what next and what next TBD Miele Bell is the executive producer of podcast year at Slate Ben Richmond is the senior director of podcast operations and I'm Mary Harris go talk me down to Blue Sky and Matt Mary Harris thanks for listening catch you back here next time hi this is Mark bitman from the podcast food with Mark bitman I've been writing about food and restaurants for almost 50 years my whole career really and what I know is that the good restaurants all have something in common they're busy genuinely chaotically busy and somehow in the last few

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