What Next - The Data Center Will Not Hold

0:00Holon cancer is on the rise. It's the second deadliest cancer and the number one cancer killer of people under 50 in the US Yet it remains one of the most preventable cancers if you're 45 or older and at average risk It's time to talk about screening. Colorguard Plus is a non-invasive at-home collection kit that requires no prep can be completed in about 15 minutes And is 95% effective if you've been putting it off. You're not alone, but timely screening matters Let's talk about what isn't talked about talk to your provider or request Colorguard Plus online our ex-only Decisions made in Washington can affect your portfolio every day But what policy changes should investors be watching? Listen to Washington wise an original podcast for investors from Charles Schwab to hear the stories making news in Washington right now Host Mike Townsend, Charles Schwab's managing director for legislative and regulatory affairs takes a nonpartisan look at the stories that matter most to investors

1:01including policy initiatives for retirement savings taxes and trade inflation concerns the federal reserve and how regulatory Developments can affect companies sectors and even the entire market Mike and his guests offer their perspective on how policy changes could affect what you do with your portfolio Download the latest episode and follow at Schwab.com slash Washington wise or wherever you listen We're officially less than two months away from the midterms and that means it's the home stretch The last leg of the midterms here have really snuck up on us That's Jim Newell Slate senior politics writer. He's the man behind the surge Slates Saturday newsletter that breaks down the biggest stories of campaign season There's a link to sign up in the show notes go do it. We'll wait I Think we're six weeks until the midterms

2:03It felt like the primaries were just going as of two weeks ago because they were So it feels a bit like everything's kind of falling into place all the big money commitments from super PACs and people Promise are all actually falling to place. There's advertisements everywhere. It's all happening finally If you think of the midterms as a kind of Buy yearly a terminal marathon Jim is Slates star runner and Patrick Rice senior editor is like his coach You know how there's always that adorable family member holding a sign that says you can do it go faster That's me just waving that sign at Jim. He's rolling his eyes at me. I will not stop waving it Because it's the last leg of the midterms race what next is launching a weekly series of its own It's called super Tuesdays every Tuesday. We're assembling a roundtable of experts reporters political thinkers and Answering your questions about the big issues dominating the conversation wherever you live

3:05So there's Jim there's Patrick and there's me. I'm Emily Peck subbing in for Mary today I co-write the Axios markets newsletter every day and as someone who covers money When it comes to big issues dominating the conversation right now There is basically one one issue driving markets and politics and America It's AI you cannot escape AI It I don't think anyone Last summer Thought that kind of there'd be this enormous data center backlash over the summer and then there'd be a Related flock camera backlash and then there'd be some you know discussion in Congress and on the campaign trail about whether these Fancy new computers are going to kill everyone Meet data center David Crowley There's an opportunity for us to really become AI and the data from coast to coast Politicians from both parties are falling over themselves to get away from the D word

4:08Data Center I'm grand-hash out and we thought we'd show you what can happen with data centers First they're really big one building Absolutely happy to help data center production and energy use in Texas is skyrocketing to meet AI's needs for your future What who authorize that Greg Abbott? Abbott took 20 million in campaign, but while Republicans on the ground are avoiding AI Trump sending a different signal The data centers are great and they make people wealthy and they make states wealthy and it's the oil of the next 20 25 years It's bigger than the internet and the AI I cover Congress so you know a year ago or so Members of both parties saying like oh, this is great. This is gonna cure cancer blah blah blah blah blah And now it's more dividing lines falling into place where Republicans are maybe a little more Positive about it in part because they're the party in power

5:08So they don't want to say they presided over this monstrous new technology You know and Democrats who are kind of just using it as another lever to hammer Republicans with saying that they've used their power Today on the show the midterms and AI I'm Emily Peck sitting in for Mary Harris. You're listening to what next stick around Today's episode of Slates what next is brought to you by Olympic hospitality The Olympic Games are coming to Los Angeles in 2028. This is a once in a generation event that you're not gonna want to miss It's more than a ticket It's a story you share with your family and friends and the ultimate way to get closer to the action is within Olympic hospitality package ticket inclusive packages offer a range of prime seating and lounge access options Then you depended priority entry food and beverage selections from LA's diverse dining scene and elevated service and continuous support

6:10Making your day at the Olympic Games one to remember for a lifetime Get ahead of the curb with an LA 28 hospitality package Discover more at hospitality dot LA 28 dot org slash what next This episode is brought to you by FreshBooks whether you just launched a service business or you've been at it for years The money side. It's got a way of pulling you from the work you actually love doing FreshBooks can change that FreshBooks makes the money side of your service-based business easy You log your hours you send a branded invoice you get paid and you know your numbers instead of chasing them Money in money out all in one place No more juggling one app for clients another for billing plus a pile of spreadsheets and emails FreshBooks is designed for how small business owners think about money Not how an accountant does you don't need a financial background to use fresh books It's simple on purpose most owners are up and running in minutes not days And if you need help a real person is available on every plan

7:11FreshBooks has been trusted by service businesses for over 20 years Helping over 500,000 owners and solopreneurs run their business confidently Right now my listeners can get fresh books for less than three bucks a month for your first four months That is 90% off Head to freshbooks.com slash podcast to get started that is 90% off under three dollars a month for four months at freshbooks.com slash podcast Decisions made in Washington can affect your portfolio every day But what policy changes should investors be watching Listen to Washington wise an original podcast for investors from Charles Schwab to hear the stories making news in Washington right now host Mike Townsend Charles Schwab's managing director for legislative and regulatory affairs takes a nonpartisan look at the stories that matter most to investors Including policy initiatives for retirement savings taxes and trade inflation concerns the federal reserve And how regulatory developments can affect companies sectors and even the entire market

8:15Mike and his guests offer their perspective on how policy changes could affect what you do with your portfolio Download the latest episode and follow at Schwab.com slash Washington wise or wherever you listen Entering the conversation is our president Trump um and Saturday morning this past weekend He you know drop one of these like extra long truth social Post this time was about AI. He's calling AI a quote hoax from the radical left Democrats yet at the same time he's he's saying he announced he's gonna establish an AI task force and a point an AI Zar Patrick. Do we know anything about either of those things? Zar or task force? I think we know pretty well what task force means in Washington and it means let's delay this Problem for a good long time Let's wait until people have thought about it a little less and cool down And then let's release a report that makes big news in seven trade publications and doesn't lead to much in the way of action

9:21If they were serious about doing something this would be This wouldn't be the first step I think Trump's made it pretty clear that he sees any AI regulation as an attack on himself Because it is an attack on the Trump economy allegedly In Slates newsletter the surge on Saturday we have more on this you should check it out But I don't see Trump moving meaningfully towards AI regulation So long as he sees it as any sort of threat to GDP growth and right now it's a tremendous piece of the GDP growth So I think these are these are sort of the classic of course I'm doing something just don't ask me exactly what I'm going to do Kind of moves that that presage in action rather than action in reading is true social post Like I had no idea what he was even setting up I mean he says I'm forming the AI force but it doesn't actually say what it's going to be

10:21tasked with doing it just says what it won't do it says it won't In any way impede AI development which he uses The greatest things in sliced bread right now So I think there's a whole lot more to figure out what he means. It's politically what it is is You have his advisors breaking through to him saying People are freak out about AI you can't just go out there and say it's a hoax or that they're Silly for thinking this you have to put out Some acknowledgement of this and that there's some control over it And he did he did the bare minimum Yeah, it seems like a little bit it is trump getting a reality check like you have to at least Show some concern or at least the concern is breaking through on all on all sides, but I mean when David sex was the AI's are Jim What what did he do in his our role like from looking at it from from where I was standing It seemed like his role was just to encourage the development of AI

11:21It wasn't about putting breaks on anything or or passing regulations or anything along those lines It seemed like he was more on the other side of that Yeah, he was kind of AI's Representative to the White House, you know, he wasn't there to show you don't trump where things need to be reigned in or not He was just kind of there to help trump in the White House make sense of things and also to show the AI industry and the crypto industry Because he was also the ZAR of that You know that they had a friend in the White House Yeah, yeah, and now I think the um this notion that there's going to be a pause in in AI or at least pacing the frontiers Anthropics CEO said Last week David Sacks has already come out and said uh And any kind of pause wouldn't make America safer and would hand this market to China So I guess we kind of know where he stands Yeah, he and that's kind of the whole administration's line You know Todd Blanche said that from the justice department too. They're not pursuing anything They're just saying if you think you're building killer machines Well You should stop doing that and you know

12:23The AI companies if you take them at their word they're saying we have a collective action problem here But so in other words, there's a long way to go before this all reaches a settlement Right and yet in the last newsletter I guess You're calling AI basically a layup you've never seen a bigger layup issue for populists Heading down the stretch of an election season. How is this a layup issue for populists because if you're you're looking at Especially over the summer you look at especially governors races just because Governors have power to set you know more Toriums or offer tax breaks or not offer tax breaks to to tech companies trying to do data centers It just became so rapidly on popular whether correctly or not It just became rapidly on popular between both Democrats and Republicans So you know, there's not really There's not a great constituency out there given how angry people are given how much low trust there is in society right now Towards these these big tech companies There's no gain in helping them

13:23At least when you're on the campaign trail. I mean we'll see what happens after election day whether all these moratorium stop and everyone's like Okay, we're through the election now continue building as you wish But it just seems like you know acknowledging people's fears even putting something out there that's that's superficial you know Some sort of pause or some sort of signal that you're You're taking this quite seriously. It's really not a difficult political calculation And Patrick, what what are you seeing in the in the polling is this like a slam dunk issue like if you want to win Your election in your state just say like you're gonna ban data centers and you're golden or what are the people actually saying in these polls? So Public opinion has been consistently low and is dropping particularly related to data centers A big issue that you hear at town halls. It's usually the first question is what about this data center in my community I was listening to Vivek Ramaswamy have one of his town halls and the first three questions were about it

14:25And he was put on defense and had to lay out a A new policy that he's rolled out where there's a list of criteria that any data center had to be met Uh, it was interesting because it does seem like a roadmap to building a data center And he framed it as instead, you know, here's a an anti data center policy um, so I think a lot of candidates are trying to walk a line where they're not killing this influential and big industry that still has plenty of pull in Washington While presenting themselves to constituents as someone who is staunchly opposed to this industry That's fascinating. There's as I was coming to tape our interview There was a note I think from Morgan Stanley saying one of the biggest Challenges to just even powering data centers in the coming year or two is um opposition from people It's not it's not capacity or the energy is just literally people those metals some people getting in the way of the money speaking of Either of you can take this one. I mean, so AI is really unpopular people hate the data centers trump is

15:31He's supposed to be a populist kind of master yet. He's coming out. He's calling AI a hoax He has he supports data centers. He says, you know, slowing that down. I believe would be a mistake. So um How how are we? Why? Why does he love something that the people don't love? He's usually so smart about These kinds of things right a few reasons. I think one is that he's Made up with big tech since his first administration when he was very hostile to them He's friendly with him. They go to Mar-a-Lago. They give him gifts They donate to his political action committee. So he's on good terms with AI But it's also I think his Patrick mentioned earlier I think AI build out is responsible for what something like 50% of the growth in GDP right now which is what he's relying on to To sustain his presidency and and argue that he's you know the greatest president or leader of any kind of world history. So He sees it and he takes things so personally he sees an attack on trying to stop

16:34AI development as an attack on his economy or an attack on what could be a legacy item for him You know if he's remembered for the one who supported this Great new infrastructure this great new technology in his second term and people try to stop that He sees that as you know, they're going after Trump again. You notice he compares These criticisms of AI development or or doomsday warnings or Data center Hasseley. He compares it to the Russia hoax You know which to him is The ultimate example of treason, you know that they spent years investigating him for potential collusion with with Russian is 2016 campaign And I mean there is if too if I wanted you know This big argument coming from people who are Most supporter of the AI in the government is that we have to do it because China is doing it And we can't lose the China and it's important for national security So there's an element of that in what he's saying too, but he does seem to just see it as He gets so unusually mad about how

17:35People criticize data centers, you know, he said like if we kill the golden goose will get what we deserve or he may have said You'll get what you deserve like talking about voters that way It's just really It's on it's unusual. Yeah, and and I guess the other twist Patrick is um Trump isn't wrong. I mean AI right now AI development and investment is really boosting GDP growth and the economy and the stock market and without it Things will look very different right now in the economy all that said I don't think the people who oppose data centers the these troublesome people getting in the way of data centers regular people I don't think they see the economy and say this is going great I think we see over and over again in the polls people have Terrible views they think the economy is going terribly they hate inflation they see gas prices um, I mean is this even a winning kind of way or frame? I mean, what do you think does this uh winning frame for

18:37for the president here? You can't even make this argument He's simultaneously slamming the break and uh hitting the gas You can't have a war in Iran that's complicated uh energy shipments around the world and driven of gas prices and cost all sorts of economic dislocation We'll at the same time be going all in on the idea that you are the economic steward of the of the millennium And he's at other times told people well, it's okay that you're paying a little more for gas This is going to stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon Um, and so he's essentially created all sorts of economic complications Which means that it's just a really tough time for him to be making the argument That voters should keep his party in power due to an economy that purporting they don't love It is true that the economy is uneven Uh, there are lots of positive metrics that I think get less focus But I think as we saw in 2024 the salient economic metric for people is prices And that's because well unemployment inflicts a lot of pain on a select few people

19:37inflation inflicts some pain on almost everyone And so I think as he deals with that uh, he's going to find himself with a lot of trouble And I think it's another reason why he's extremely reticent to see anything get in the way of the big AI infrastructure build out We'll be right back after a quick break Decisions made in Washington can affect your portfolio every day But what policy changes should investors be watching Listen to Washington wise an original podcast for investors from Charles Schwab To hear the stories making news in Washington right now host Mike Townsend Charles Schwab's managing director for legislative and regulatory affairs

20:38Takes a nonpartisan look at the stories that matter most investors Including policy initiatives for retirement savings Taxes and trade inflation concerns the federal reserve And how regulatory developments can affect companies sectors and even the entire market Mike and his guests offer their perspective on how policy changes Could affect what you do with your portfolio Download the latest episode and follow at Schwab.com slash Washington wise or wherever you listen This episode is brought to you by Omaha Stakes I'm gonna tell you the story of what happened the night Omaha Stakes arrived at my house This was a few weeks back. It was a Thursday My kids were like what's for dinner and I was like just wait Then the Omaha Stakes guy arrived Not just with stakes there was chicken in there, pork some burgers all of it vacuum sealed and on dry ice All of a sudden we had options my older kid invited some friends over He was about to leave for college. It felt like the best way to celebrate was with a stake

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22:43So is the pro AI stance the trump is taken is that The whole GOP's stance Republicans gonna be the pro AI party going forward I think we're gonna have to see where the dust settles after the election right now everyone's just Running for cover where they can so you've seen the GOP Definitely take a it depends on the race, but in people in competitive districts definitely take a much harder line against them Really kind of trying to outflank Democrats once they got a little surprised by this issue and realize how vulnerable they were on it Look at the Wisconsin governors race you have that's Republican tom Tiffany versus Democrat David Crowley And David Crowley was a little bit during the primary a little wishy washi about whether you do a moratorium You know, he I think recognize the value of of this Investment that could come from AI, but he was he was hedging a little bit so tom Tiffany the Republicans start calling him Data center David Crowley, you know and putting money behind like these attacks on him

23:45Saying he's the one who's gonna, you know Expand data centers when he gets in so you're seeing you are seeing I think in um Westchester County, New York, Mike Lawler's district there. He's one of the most vulnerable House Republicans He's run ads against his opponent his democratic opponent, you know Talk about how much money she's taken from tech companies things like that So you're seeing a little bit of this repositioning and everyone just saying what they have to say to get through the midterms I'm curious You know the day after the midterms If maybe we get a better sense of what everyone's true beliefs are in this But right now it if you're in a tight race. It's not a good position to to go out there and say like You know what AI companies can come to our backyard and do whatever they want. It's the future Yeah, what are you guys so scared of? in Texas Governor Abbott just Went after water users at data centers and to the the uh, I think great relief of candidate Ken Paxson seven candidate Ken Paxson

24:45uh, and so they're trying to send a very clear signal to voters that that they are on the the popular side of this issue Uh, and I think it's noteworthy that they're they're using the tools already at their disposal in in water policy Which of course in Texas is a big deal um, and that was just last week and I think you'll see more of that in the uh between now and oh say early November It's going to be interesting to see where Democrat like if Democrats win a lot of these governors races Where they campaign pretty hard against AI well if they actually get in the office And they have the chance to bring in these big companies and these companies say you know we can create x number of jobs It'll be interested to see the extent to which they walk back some of their own You know hardline stances against data centers too Yeah, it's interesting everyone well with the exception perhaps of the president of the United States It seems like candidates on both sides are very much against data centers very much against AI So it's like the question to ask is Why wouldn't that just continue if the people are against AI

25:47And all the candidates on both sides are against AI what's what's pushing in the opposite direction? Well, I I mean one interesting thing about how I think the AI companies kind of understand that Through this election they're going to get hit a lot and After that they'll figure out where things are yeah, but the House of Representatives and Senate came back last week And there was all this talk about AI killing everyone and they talked about whether we'd set up a task force or a select committee to look at this next time But it really didn't go that far you know there weren't any There wasn't a massive piece of legislation that would destroy the AI companies coming out And Democratic candidates in swing districts have been warned you know Don't go too hard on AI because we're six weeks from the election and they have Unlimited money that they could put into campaigns right now I mean you're seeing this happen with crypto right now. So last week the Senate Blocked this big crypto bill that the crypto industry was relying on a couple days later here now Monday morning

26:50Crypto's big super PAC is spending 30 million dollars against Shared brown the Democratic candidate in Ohio is kind of a payback so there is a little bit like You know what's pushing against them. I mean part of it is money like they don't want to see all this unloaded on them right now But I think also you know no one in I think it's gonna be a little more complicated how this all resolves Then the election season will allow for you mentioned Ohio and a few weeks ago axios where I work we published a memo from Senate Republican from a Senate Republican Campaign spending group basically Calling data centers politically Radioactive and calling out Ohio specifically so you mentioned Ohio and and crypto but Patrick Why why Ohio wise Ohio like an important AI place? I think if you look at the history of Ohio there have been a lot of big promises made to the state about this thing Will rebuttal as your economy or that thing will rebuttal as your economy?

27:52And I think a lot of voters are saying like wait we've heard this before We've heard a little economic pain and a lot of change now But don't worry down the line you know the factories will be humming and the jobs will be flowing in And I think for a state that understandably has a lot of skepticism of big economic promises Another company coming in and making them is a particularly touchy issue It sort of reminds me of when the Trans-Pacific Partnership was being debated in 2013 um And then again in the second round in 2016 candidates were tripping over themselves to run away from something that have previously been mutually supported Because in in states like Ohio and Michigan and Wisconsin There's just a feeling that any time a big promise is made about short-term pain for long-term gain It just brings up some really painful memories of states getting hollowed out and it taking a long long time for them to regain their economic footing And I think shared Brown is well positioned to take advantage of that

28:55Given his long connections to labor And his long history with voters in that state And so I can see why in Ohio Republicans would be particularly nervous about being seen as the AI party Yeah shared Brown is like he was he was populist before Donald Trump made it cool, right? I mean he he really this is sort seems like a perfect issue for that guy Jim Yeah, absolutely um he is more than enough to work with with um John Viewsted his You know Being more but traditional business side Republican who wasn't too skeptical about this until a month ago It's also a big issue in Ohio because You know, there's a site that they've lost Kilibillion dollars in revenue because of the some of the tax incentives they give into the big tech companies to come wow, so that's um You know increasing some the anger and and just to give another example with Patrick I mean Patrick is a Wisconsinite will remember but the the whole fox con fiasco and it was constant Oh, yeah, this is the eighth wonder of the world former president Trump and former Wisconsin governor Scott Walker promised a high tech

30:00Mecca well worth the nearly four billion dollars in state and local incentives the company promised 13,000 jobs But almost immediately there were what fox con called unanticipated market fluctuations There was that huge you know factory there was gonna be 800 billion jobs coming in or whatever and just dried up in the dust and that's why it was A huge issue in that in that democratic governor's primary, but yeah all across the Midwest You know, there's that that skepticism is there, but um there's a lot of uh You mentioned a browns competitor sort of like becoming a AI opponent just recently and there's a lot of like these like frantic kind of like 180s happening and a lot of these races um in florida, I guess GOP representative byerin daniels Said he he at first said no way ain't no data center bands coming And then a few weeks later said he was going to he spent he spent money on ads promising to protect the state from from data centers

31:04Either other places where there's some kind of fun 180s Yeah, I think The biggest one is texas Greg Abbott who his whole he's running for his first term fourth term now um as governor of texas His whole model has been you know kind of learning companies from california or their blue states with tack and sendives and a better business environment And so he of course brought that to AI last year Google made this huge investment and he said we want to make texas the epicenter of AI and so then over This summer, you know, there's these enormous, you know um What are they mega-watt gigawatt? I don't know the technical term. Thanks enormous. Yeah big Very big data center products coming to texas and it's you know irritating a lot of his constituents especially rural constituents So he did a pretty big 180 put a halt on the approval process A moratorium he went out and did a big national tv interview where he said these tech companies

32:08You know who they think they are like they didn't make their case to the people they got what they deserve So that was kind of the big signal to everyone else which was um You know run and take cover now And so I think it's almost become the default position now that you have to at least have a a moratorium a temporary moratorium You know at least until we get through the elections and now Greg Abbott's doing the same thing with with flock cameras Which are another AI assisted technology that everyone's up in arms about he had a board that was really approving all of those projects in texas And now he's also put a hold on that. I think post-election You'll see a lot of these moratoriums become a little bit more sort of facilitating bills Where it's like It won't surprise me if you get statewide bills for what you need to do To build a data center that include local preemption of additional regulations Um Because I think if I think these companies know that the the jig is up in terms of like free reign to build data centers But I think they would gladly take statewide rules standardize policies over a patchwork of you know county or municipal regulations about who can build what

33:17Um, and it won't surprise me if If I'm a big tap company and I'm I'm looking at all the rhetoric now I think per Jim's point earlier. I'm really waiting to see what happens after the election because I do think statewide politicians particularly ones with deep ties to industry are going to be really reticent to turn away large-scale investment From some of the biggest and wealthiest companies in America Um, and I guess to bring it back to to Trump. I mean he has said And it's generally people think the midterms are sort of a referendum on his presidency are they What to make of this in the context of AI or they also referendum on his AI policy stance. I don't think that um I mean the midterms are still a story about Trump it is still a referendum on Trump Trump is acid if you referendum on Trump um about the cost of living About the Iran war

34:19about you know excesses of the Trump administration or you know, I mean those are still the big issues AI is kind of back there as another factor In these races that maybe wasn't seen year ago. I think it's going to be Maybe the defining issue of 2028. I think this is kind of a little preview I we probably won't be talking about data centers explicitly in 2028 We'll be talking about whatever's next, you know, but You know someone at the line that like today is the day when AI is the smallest part of your life It's only going to keep getting bigger and bigger every year and so I I think It's just going to keep rising up Voters beliefs. I don't know if he'll ever surpass cost of living, but those two things will get more intertwined too To wrap it up, I was going to ask you Which 2026 race is like most Most on your radar this week could be big stakes or maybe something small stakes, but interesting

35:20Jim you got something? Well as it happens I have a big piece out today on slate.com about the Texas Senate race and Kind of looking at the history of Democrats trying to turn Texas blue and places where that The several times where people got their hopes up I remember beta Democrats. Yeah, yeah And uh talk to him. He's featured in the story of quests. So That is one I am watching very closely. I do think it is um Of a different nature this cycle, you know, when you look at those polls He's been leading in every poll by a couple of points on average. That's James Tallerico James Tallerico Like those polls I think at the moment are accurate the big question is um In the last two weeks or so about A hundred million dollars or so and in Republican outside spending super PAC spending has Has come to Texas to rescue Ken Paxson his opponent We're gonna find out if that if that does a trick if if that can you know

36:23Help Republican voters in Texas come home and feel comfortable willing for Paxson and You know once again Texas stays red. So that's what I'm watching Patrick So about as far from AI as you can get uh The other week there was a debate uh in Alaska between uh democrat uh Mary Peltola and Republican dan s Sullivan not to be confused with the other canon of the ballot dan Sullivan And the entire debate was about who would do better by uh local fisheries Uh, I learned so much uh listening to this it was uh a great hour on c-span radio um, but uh some terms that that we're throwing around were lower 48ers Seattle based trawling companies How the Pollock catch is undermining the salmon catch I always say that it's it's just you know If you've heard it once you've heard it a million times But it was a fascinating debate. It's gonna be a great race um and and it seems like it's shaping up to be close

37:24So if anyone it's late.com would like to send me to Alaska in the next few weeks. Just let me know Jim Patrick. Thank you so much for talking to me. Yeah, thanks for having me on Really enjoyed it. Thanks for having me Jim Newell is the senior politics writer at slate Patrick Rice is his editor and you can check out Jim's big piece on Texas and James Telleriko on the homepage at slate.com We'll also drop a link in the show notes And that's the show What next is produced by Evan Campbell Madeline Tems du Charm and Patrick Ford Paige Osburn is the senior Supervising producer of what next and what next TBD Miele Bell is the executive producer of podcasts here at slate Ben Richmond is the senior director of podcast operations here at slate and I'm Emily Peck You can find me on blue sky. I'm an Emily RPEC And you can also find me every Saturday on slate money where we cover the business and finance news of the week Thanks for listening talk to you soon

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