What Happens When Boys Don’t Speak Up?

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1:00Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what growth therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works covered by insurance. Sessions average $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the US, offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes. And begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as $0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash a cast.

2:06That's growtherapy.com slash a cast. Growtherapy.com slash a cast. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. If you thought it was a good idea, even if someone's like, dude, she's totally down. If it is not from her mouth, do not take it from a third-hand party that someone wants to be with you. Do not do that. That's number rule number one actually. Because every situation that has gotten people landed in jail right now is from a guy saying, hey, come on over. If it's not from her, if you do not get the text from her, do not go. Welcome to the Cadet Matt Hot Pads. I like that you're wearing double sweaters. You will have ones along, sleep ones, a henly. Oh, right, right. It's not a sweater. In ones a sweater and I was cold. And you still have the plastic on the zipper? Yeah, because I wasn't sure if I was going to keep it.

3:07Ooh, does it zip all the way down or is it? Yeah, it does, but you don't. You don't. No, that's not cool. You don't. Welcome, guys. It's Cadet Matt. I'm so sure. We don't do an intro, but I find it harder to not do an intro. We usually say welcome to the Cadet Matt. I'm filtered podcast. We usually say it's a Monday or a Tuesday, but who the fuck knows when anyone's listening to this? I know. I know. We're going to rip one out. And this is for Monday, which is really focused on, you know, our children. And I don't mean children. I mean, parenting, but I saw this really interesting. Oh, God, I wish I was going to save it. And then my phone is there and I can't pull my brain. Your brain's got it. You got this. What's it about? Okay, basically, it's this idea about a friend who's part of the group, but they're like a passive friend. Yes. So they're not always included, but like no one doesn't not like them. Yeah. It's called something. I never heard it before.

4:07And I was like, it's almost like they're a passenger. Yes, when people are there, they're like, hey, like happy they're there, but they're not thought of as being included in groups. They're not thought of as like when they're there, it's great. Yeah. But when they're when they're not there, it's not like someone's like, they're not the first person to find it to something. You know, it's funny. We just recently had this like, and it's funny because in a group, a lot of people won't say that they feel that way about particular people. But one time my girlfriends, we were all going somewhere. And the one person said, I'm glad this person came because if this person and this person didn't come, then it wouldn't have been that much fun. I'm like, you don't say that out loud, but I know in her mind, she was just like, these are the people that I think make it fun. And like in it, like, and it doesn't, we're not just talking about the fun people, but then there's some people who are like in the group, like they need that person because it makes it feel safe. In a real group of friends, you all need each other for different reasons and different

5:10people need different people for whatever reasons. There's not usually one that is way too strong to say insignificant. That's what it is basically. It is an ins, it's someone who is insignificant in the group. And there's not a lot of feeling towards it. It's not like I'm meaning to, but like they're not included in the like the decision making, the natural conversation, like they might not get the phone call. And if they call, they're like, get come. Like it's they're the kind of person when you're all sitting there and you're like, someone's missing. Yeah. I know someone's missing, but I can't remember who it is. It's like they're and they're that type of person with everybody. So it's like just sort of like this personality type that I don't know if it's a personality type. And I wanted to get like dive deeper into it about what is it about the someone who has friends, but it's not like the the friend that you notice them missing or you want. Like you're not calling them because there's a lot of, it's actually a lot of adult friendships, which is really interesting that come up on the feed right now.

6:11I don't know why, but it's like basically we've had and we had this conversation, but just because you have a good friend doesn't mean that they see you the same way. So you could be a best friend, but they don't see you as their best friend. So you're like, but I'm such a good friend to you. But their first person they're thinking of is someone else, even though you spend so much time together, you're not that person's person. And that's so interesting because I think a lot of human nature is what they're saying is that when you show up as a friend, you assume that it's mutual without asking if it's mutual. You're just like, this is mutual, right? And you're spending time together and you're hanging out, right? But the person you don't ever have it like when you're dating, you're like, so we're dating, you set rules, you set groundwork, you set like, I just find friendships amongst girls and boys. I'm so not saying just girls is something that is more complicated because they're never

7:14taught it. In relationships, we're mirrored it, we're showing it, we grow up with it, but friendships aren't often something that you're sat down and been like, this is how you're a good friend. This is how someone's a good friend to you. This is what a friendship looks like, but marriage, there's marriage counseling, there's marriage. Before you get married, there's things that everyone's like, I need this in a guy, this in a guy, or in a partner. I mean, I guess for like when I think about it as a woman and as a girl, my whole life has been research into friendships because I've always just like since I was little, always hung around girls. So it's like, I guess there's rules of being a good friend. Just like there's rules of being a good sister, a good mother, a good everything, but most of the work that we do as girls should be research along a long way, but it comes to relationships. The reason there's more emphasis on that is because those are not natural. Boys and girls relationships, the reason they need help is because boys and girls, most

8:19of the time are very different. So they need work on how to work together, whereas with a girl, I'm like, my whole life has been researching this. But could you, could you, could you, could your sons explain to each other what a good friend is? Oh, for boys? Like could they, I guess, probably say it. I bet they could say what a good boyfriend is. Easy peasy. Like how to be a good boyfriend? Could they say this is how you be a good friend? Yeah, I, that'll be fun dinner tonight. I mean, I, I think that in theory, we all know what being a good friend is. You know, I think in theory and what a good friend is. Is back? Yeah. But to actually do it is another thing. Yeah. But to say it, like I'm sure like we've read, when they were little, we read all these books of being a good friend. I didn't know this. We did. Yeah, I was always like that and like, I'm the one with a two. Two, three, well, whenever you read books, if you read books to your kids and like, you know, getting along those lessons in grade one, grade two, like they were always like,

9:21you know, we share, we listen to each other, you don't just talk. Like you, you, you're able to, you know, listen to your friends secrets, keep their secrets, like all that kind of stuff. That's not a go. But even though we know in theory on a book what it is to be a good friend, I feel like so much comes in between all of that and the desire to want to do those things for people. And like to understand connection and to understand what that connection is, like why do you like that person and why does that person like you and what is that? Because you know, when you're trying to describe like friendships to, I think sometimes when I see the cases of like Cornell, like the alleged rape that is going on right now or a sexual assault that is going on right now in the conversations, it's almost like because a good friend would help you not make bad decisions. I'm just saying a good friend, someone who, if you know why you're all in this thing

10:24together, it's like the accountability of being a good friend, you'd be like, you're able to call each other out on their ship because I saw this video today that was like, it's going to take guys standing up and being like, dude, don't do that without being, being afraid of going against the grain of what have been called like, you know, being called out on their behavior because because if you do it, it's like you're, they'd be mock you, they'd make fun of you, like, what's wrong with you? You would be made a mockery because you're being like, what's wrong with you? Like, what are you like? You know, what's wrong with you, dude? Don't be like that. And I was thinking, I'm like, I wonder if what we're missing is beyond so many things, like beyond all the things people are talking about. I wonder if sometimes boys and girls don't have the words and the permission to be a good friend because sometimes a good friend is like, as girls, we go to the bathroom together, a good friend, like a definition is like, you don't leave each other, you go home together,

11:27you make sure you look out for that other person. If they're, if they're making a bad decision, even with a date, you're like, dude, that guy, SOS. We all, I don't know, I'm not a boy, so I don't know. But like, if the tables were turned, I feel like there would be more girls who would stand up and be like, that is wrong. Or they'd have a girl's back. And even if they didn't necessarily get along, it's like, our rules for girlhood is so defined. And I don't know the boyhood code. I don't know who's teaching them that, that it's like, do they have the relationships and the friendships and the code to be able to be like, dude, what do you do? Like call them out on their shit. Because I think that is part of a friendship. And I think like a bigger group, it's harder too. I'm just thinking like, bring it back to like girls. It's like, if there's a group of girls and two girls have a bad idea and they're good friends and they want the best for each other, but the two of them want to make a bad decision. She's not a bad friend because she's like to the friend, like, yeah, let's do this bad

12:30thing. No. But usually in a group, a girl's not afraid to be like, guys, no way. But yes, another girl in the group, like you two are making a bad decision. Yeah. And also the two voice it and say it. And we do say it among, I mean, I know not all girls do, but I do think from an early age, girls are taught. I mean, it also causes problems because girls like to like, we get into, we talk about everything. So the girl, the twin years are like in team years are like, oh my god, it's like, they like the drama. I think they like the way it feels. It makes them feel grown up. But boys, I don't, they, they're never like dude. Like I said that like there's got to be feelings amongst things people do or say, but they don't even know they just, but that's weird. I mean, that's even like a lot of guys will kind of like, I mean, I don't know. I don't feel like girls as much like guys will date each other's exes, but a guy won't like say not be and be like, bro, like I dated that girl.

13:31Whereas girls are like, you can't date my ex. I know. It's more like, it's like our standards for like respect are higher women for each other. But is that because we have an open dialogue constantly with each other where we know what the codes are because we call each other out like, I'll take a quick break and come right back. Wait losses like laundry, you work so hard to get to the bottom of the basket and then someone walks in carrying another full basket except the hamper is hormones, stress, perimenopause, wine and eating your kids leftovers. Nume is an app that gives you the tools, guidance and support to stay on track through the busy weeks, the stressful weeks and all the unpredictable moments in between. Nume helps you make progress that you can actually keep. Their program combines GLP ones to kick start your weight loss with healthy habits to help you maintain that progress even if you eventually stop the medication. The goal isn't just about losing weight, it's about building habits at last.

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15:32card as a thank you. Terms and conditions apply. See offer page for details. This is the story of the one. As a shipping manager, he's running the dock, stocking supplies, and making sure every order goes out on time. And Granger helps him stay prepared. From shipping supplies to PPE to hand tools, he counts on Granger to keep products moving and trucks rolling. So his operation runs smoothly, no matter the shift. Call 1-800-Granger. Click ranger.com or just up by Granger for the ones who get it done. Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. We applaud those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what growth therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance.

16:35Sessions average $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the US, offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as $0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash a cast. That's growtherapy.com slash a cast. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. I think of, well, you have a group of eight girlfriends, all that could get together. And you will check each other. It's like you are not afraid to be like, hey, what are you doing?

17:41That's, I think, more women are willing to check each other out on those things and be like, are you serious right now or stand up for someone else? I don't even mean like stand up. I mean, like, yeah, yeah, you know, give a different perspective to maybe why or how someone's feeling. Even little girls, I can see little girls do it. And like they talk about it incessantly and about why, why would that person do that? Why is it like that? Where I don't hear the same conversation from boys and I'm like, they can't not not be interested. But is it just that we, they don't have the words, they don't have the tools, they don't have the, I think that their relationships don't allow for like vulnerable conversations. I think men too, how many men are out there having vulnerable conversations? Like when we're having it all the time, about their relationships, whether sex life, about their bodies, about their parenting, about their children, and they're vulnerable. And they're okay to be like, this is, this is hard. And this is like, man, I don't see men sitting around, I'm having a really difficult

18:45time right now with the relationship with my mom and my sister. I guess we have no space for that. Like we have no space as women because it's got to be other guys who step in and help. They've got to have those conversations. Yes. Otherwise it becomes a woman's thing to carry. And it really does have to be like as having a son, you know, I'm almost not hesitant to show him what's happening. But I do feel like a lot of conversations are around what men and boys do wrong. And we're not having the conversation about what are we, how can we help them get it right? And you know what's unfortunate about all those stories? Is it, it makes boys naturally be defensive when you talk about boys as a general and then stories like that are included in it. Stories of, you know, any of those like rape allegations, like group stuff, like everything. Our boys, I think our boys who have yet and hopefully never will do something like that

19:45are like, they will never do. Don't put me in that category. And in fact, they can't help but be like, do we question her? Yeah. Like just because we're attacking us all the time. Like is there any way that like, and they know it's wrong to like question the girl, but they're also like, God, how many times can I hear that the boys are the only ones doing the wrong thing? I think that the, like, yes. And I think as as moms to girls and to boys, like as moms to both, it's like, what's the balance between keeping your boys accountable for something older men have done, teaching them what's right. And then letting them know that they're amazing, wonderful humans for not doing something they haven't done. But the perception of why people are angry is because a bigger picture is that we have,

20:46we have the bigger picture is when you break it down, why why people are so upset is because that went to like 50 people. Seven said yes. And 43 said nothing. And I think that that is something as a mom. It's got 43 people didn't join in 43 people didn't do anything do anything. And listen, some of them could have been asleep, some of them might not have opened it. Like, I'm not saying 43 people just looked at it and were like, I don't know the situation. I wasn't there. I'm not going to get into a lawsuit. I haven't done a deep dive into and I can't do that because that's just me jumping on a band. But don't worry, there will be a Netflix documentary on it. Well, I will, I mean, I'm more in what my interest is whoever is right, who's ever is wrong. Clearly something was done that was wrong because they were expelled and suspended. This isn't an old allegation coming up and nothing happened. She went to the police right after like eight years later. Why don't you just like quickly tell them what you're talking about? Oh, if you guys don't know, there is, I do not know all the details.

21:47So I'm very hesitant to give everything. But Coles notes, which is way more of an important issue than Coles notes is seven boys, seven men, because they're actually men at Cornell University in a flat house are being accused of assaulting a woman who came home from the bar. I know that they said, Ketamine was involved. They kind of plowed her with ketamine. And for seven hours, there was a sexual assault that happened in a group text. One out that said, hey, the snaps are there. So the snaps go out and it's very vulgar. There is free. So if you want, there is free the P word here. And then guys are like, oh my god, I love the fraternity. The fraternity, do you get checked down after her allegations, after the investigation? Did it or didn't did? Yeah. So there's something something went very wrong. But again, I don't have the notes in front of me.

22:50Fast forward. Everyone could argue who was right, who was wrong, why should go back? I could, everyone has a thing that the point is, how do I not get my son involved in that situation? That is where my brain is at because yes, the system is broken. Yes, things suck. But you look at those seven boys, you're like, I don't know their families. I don't know how they raised, I don't know anything. But I've got to assume that like one of them was raised by someone like me. Yeah, I do. And beyond the point of even that, what are we doing? What are we teaching our children from? What can we learn from this as moms that we can teach our children without making them feel bad about themselves? Do you know how many people when these stories come out are probably sitting in their offices being like, I hope not. No, this happened here too. I hope this is what drives me crazy. No way.

23:50But what are we doing as moms? Collectively as a conversation? I mean, I always like. Beyond having the conversation with them. What are we teaching them? Well, we're teaching them with words, we're teaching them with examples. Like, what else can you do that expose them to what has happened in the past and what cannot happen in the future? So what should they have done? What in that situation, what would like, like as I'm, what I'm trying to get at is like, and I'm open to everybody having feedback on this is like, you and I want to not make our sons ashamed that they're male. You and I want them to be kind, humble, like all the things and also be feel like it's okay to be a guy. Like I want them to be okay with, they're different than us. That's okay. I'm trying to make you more like me, but how can I help you navigate this situation that is so huge and all we talk about is how terrible meaning like this is in these situations. What could you have done? How could I, I'm not a guy.

24:52So how could I have said to him, hey, you may go to university, you may go into a group situation, you're going to get a group, a group chat. I don't know how many guys get this. There's a girl here. What do you do? What do you do? I don't know. What do you do? I don't know. That's the thing. That's what we need to teach them, right? Because that's what we're doing. But is there a million? There's a girl at a bar. She's wasted. Yeah. What do you do? Yeah. I mean, my kids have told me what they're learning in school. Okay. And they talk about it a lot. Now, obviously a lot of kids are like, this is not realistic completely, which everything you learn, like there's always, you can, you can always bend rules and there's, they're not exactly the way, but what they're trying to teach them is if anyone is drunk, yes, is not consensual. If anyone is on drugs, yes, is not consensual. So be prepared that if she says yes, and she's on drugs or drunk, that she will come back and say, I did not consent. She could. As a rule, that's what they're being taught. And vice versa. Yes. I can't imagine.

25:53Yes. Vice versa. I think it's the same sex relationship, like vice versa. Any person intoxicated can come back and say, I did not consent to it. That's a good baseline that they're learning in school, maybe not all schools. That's a good baseline. Okay. Is that, you know, because I'm, I'm more hopeful that if everybody in that situation was sober, it wouldn't have gone down the same way. Oh, I know. Also, I think, you know, as a, as a general rule, it's like, how do you teach them that one night stands might not be a great idea because you don't know if you're usually they're intoxicated, like they're, it's fueled by alcohol. So maybe it's like, know them for 60 days. Like maybe it's a rule. There's got to be some least fun part of one night stand. I know, but it seems like one night stands are not going well. I mean, I don't know. I'm sure they're happening all the time, but I guess there's hookups or things, but I'm like, it just seems like there's a lot of, I mean, and maybe I don't, I don't know

26:56the rules, guys. I'm not, I'm not there. I just am trying to give them something that I think it's more just like in their situation. What were they thinking? Well, that, that we could find they could maybe someone could tell us one day, but I guess that's not going to be the most important thing to what, like, just to teach them how to teach them how, what were they thinking? Like, what was the, what was the rest animals? Like what was the rationale? Like great idea. And thinking to myself, like, it's such a weird thing to think, like, like from a girl perspective is I have a girl here. Okay, I have a girl here that is willing to or willing is able, that I'm able to have sex with for seven hours. What the fuck am I inviting my friends here? I think that's the other problem. But like girls, like, we wouldn't be like, oh, like, we would never think about it, but let's just say we got a guy in the room and he was like, let's just say nobody was talking to us really, really, like, everything was going really well and it was like hot and it was like sexy and all that. Oh, let me call my friends in for this.

27:57No. I know. I was just like, it's animals. So is it, or is it that they see girls as a thing not as a person? I guess, whoever, yeah, they must, they may like just like they didn't see her. They saw her as like something that was just, it must be also some of the pornography that they've grown up watching where there's a group mentality and the girls into it and she loves it and she's like, yeah, like all everybody. I guess we don't know the details and the details are like, it's so triggering to even think about it. And I think it's so overwhelming as moms. And I think, you know, we, everyone does get so like so heated about it. But that the, the, the point is that we need as moms, I'd just go back to that. How am I helping him? And my daughters get, you know, navigate these situations where it's like reiterating. If you're in this, just like we did when they were kids, right? If you're in this situation, what do you do? And you like reiterate, like in conversation, not like a lesson, not a life lesson, just like, hey, like, you know, I mean, we used to do it all the time in like flipping conversation

29:00because we were worried that our kids were going to get by a car. We were worried that they were going to get kidnapped. Yeah. We were worried that a friend might offer them something they didn't want it. Even those boys being on that, that message, which they didn't ask to be on that message are now, yeah, are now implanted. Right. So what do you do? Like it was like just like, but not to like make it the end of the world. But like if you're in this situation, what's the first thing you think that you would do? I would think that a lot of boys first answers would be ignore it. Yeah, I'm not a part of it. I don't want to be a part of it. Especially if you're in a, especially the other issue is like at the, I would assume the fraternity, there's a hierarchy. Mm-hmm. So if it's someone higher up than you and you're lower, there's probably a status that you don't go and call out what the culture is probably, dude, you don't call out a senior. Like you don't go and say that to someone who's higher up than you. It's just so crazy that it seems that, I mean, I don't know how often that happened, but it seems so casual that like nobody even, but I like, do you, I think the initial reaction

30:08of most people, most boys, would be like, um, we'll listen, do nothing. I don't even think that's most boys. I think that's where we're at. Like if they've done studies where people are walking down the street being beat up and people do nothing. Yeah. I don't want to be involved in this. I don't want to get hurt. I don't want to be like, I think that's the other thing we have to look at is that we have, you get canceled for anything you do. Yeah. And then also let's just say one of them is like, wait, I know a good friend of hers. Let me text the good friend of hers and let her know to come get her friend. Well, that girl's gonna be like, Dan texted me. That's how we all know now. All the guys like you fucking call you texted the girl to come save the girl and now we're all arrested. And this is the end of our lives because you open your mouth. Yeah. And I'm, I, that's the right thing to do. Obviously, that's the right thing to do. But I'm always trying to see it from a different perspective so that I can get in their head so I can teach him. Like what can I teach you as my child? And I know it's like, do the right thing. It's like, but is it just like, dude, no?

31:1198 of the top 100 US accounting firms trust Bill to handle bill pay processes. Why? Because our tools are built on over a trillion dollars of secure payments. We're not just moving money. We're powering financial workflows for half a million customers. That's a level of expertise. You just can't fake. Ready to talk with an expert? Visit bill.com slash proven to get started and grab a $150 gift card as a thank you. Terms and conditions apply. See off her page for details. Granger knows if you're a procurement manager at an industrial manufacturing facility, you're balancing inventory and budget while sourcing critical supplies across the operation. Too much inventory? Cost climb. Too little? Production slows. Granger's $2 billion and on-hand inventory helps you get what you need when you need it. So you can help keep budgets balanced and lines moving. Call 1-800-BRANJER. Click ranger.com or just stop by. Granger. For the ones who get it done. Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough.

32:15It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like and that's exactly what growth therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works covered by insurance. Insurance average $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the US, offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as $0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash

33:17acast. That's growtherapy.com slash acast. Growtherapy.com slash acast. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Is it as simple as like dude? What? No. Like is that as simple as it is? Just like no. So almost like they could have like this like this thing like, like if it happened today, one person would just write back like Cornell Quastermark? Yeah. Like you really want to fucking do because what you're doing right now is exactly what they did. Like Cornell Quastermark? Yeah. I just I wish that if we all talk about let's hear something. If all of us women and men talk about it with our children, then they all know that it's that if they call each other out, it's with the right thing to do for everybody. And even even if you thought it was a good idea, even if someone's like, dude, she's totally down. If it is not from her mouth, do not take it from a third hand party that someone wants

34:19to be with you. Do not do that. That's number rule number one, actually, because every situation that has gotten people landed in jail right now is from a guy saying, hey, come on over. If it's not from her, if you do not get the text from her, do not go. And then if you do get the text from her and she's there and you ask, okay, you know, because I'm not an idiot enough to say they're not going to be in situations of more than one person involved in the relationship. I feel it is not the way it goes anymore. I'd love to see like, you know, like a like a doc or like something about all the times when a guy went against the grain and stood up and was like, I didn't fucking care. I knew what was going on was wrong and someone was going to be hurt and I just did it. There's the situation, you know, and I wasn't canceled and everybody didn't hate me, but I literally stopped something that was about to go really wrong. Well if someone had been like, dude, no, they'd be the hero. If that Snapchat had been like, and maybe someone did, we don't have all of the snaps. Like, this is a very, this is a very social media conversation right now.

35:21So like I'm, I'm, how old are the guys now? They're all graduated. So like, like are they 25? Probably someone had a job. They're in their jobs. Yeah. And they're all getting fired on all their names and everyone is just posting. And now they're trying to get all the whole Snapchat, like all the names on the Snapchat. So I guess that's the other thing. How do you not even get your name on the Snapchat? What are we doing tonight to talk to our babies? I mean, I feel like honestly, I, I, it's always an ongoing conversation with them. Is it though? Yeah. And I find that the, and I do. And I got them to watch documentary and I will, I'll tell them. I'll be like, you already heard about this. I know you already heard about this. You can say you didn't hear about it. I know it's come across your eyeballs or someone's mentioned something. So just so you know what happened. This is what happens when people are talking about. That's helpful. You know, and just like, like use the current events to be like. Also to highlight that, you know, there's a lot of conversations right now about how terrible men are.

36:26And I don't think you're terrible. And I don't think your dad's terrible. And you know, there's a lot of men who are not in that situation. And I know I'm not defending men. I'm looking at it from a, a mom's perspective of how to not make these boys feel like. They need to have a space too to be great people to and they can be. And they can change the things because they are young enough to be different. Yeah. It also feels like a scary place where like being a teenager is about being experimental and making mistakes. It feels like the mistakes that these boys are making. Like they're so, they're very different than the mistakes are boys will be making, but that you can make mistakes. And they don't always have to be like boys don't just make these terrible mistakes. There's also little mistakes you can make along the way, but don't be afraid to, you know what I mean? It's like they'll be afraid to do anything because they're afraid it's going to turn out like that. I think my bigger fear is that they feel that they begin to feel like they can do nothing right. Yeah. So they don't do anything.

37:27And then someone online comes on and they're like, this is how you are. And this is what like they pray on. If we don't tell them what they're what's right about them, someone else will just, this is what this whole insult thing is is we'll tell them why they're amazing and great and that it's okay to be a certain way, but it's the wrong voice leading them. Yeah. We want the right voice leading them, letting them know that they are so great and amazing, but also don't do this. Yeah. And like, like this is wrong. I don't know how we don't, I think the mind blowing thing for all of us. How did they, how did in 2020, whatever did they not know that that was so outrageously wrong? I think that's what's so hard to comprehend. And that's the bottom line is how am I teet, how are we, how are we checking in with them being like the other thing is they were grown up. So what was their formative years? What were their formative years? And they were accustomed of online kids, right? Like they would have been like later in the online world, but like definitely later if

38:27they're already graduated. I mean, but what is what are what are the what were their conversations? And what can we do differently and were there any conversations and not that it makes it right because you would just think logically it's wrong. But if it was so right for them, like if it was so okay for them, what are we missing as moms that makes it that it's so not right? That I would I, you know, I really always want to hear from in these situations. It's like every, it's like every murder, every like I don't love like children and rape stories, but I do love murder. And I my favorite is going back to childhood and hearing from the parents because and then also I watched the whole series. That's a lot of children. That's a lot of people. Yeah. And then also all the people like, you know, the kids who are like series on specifically hearing from the parents of children who've done things, I just like I just wish that we could learn and yeah, learn from the from the moms and the dads and say, you know, was

39:31there like, was there ever any other times where they did kind of like in high school, whether things where they did kind of things like this, but they were excused for it or were they on a team where that kind of shit happened, but they weren't like they didn't get in trouble for it or like there's a lot it's a lot of different back. That's a lot of different lives. Yeah. I mean, seven, that's a lot of that would be that's a lot. That's a lot. It's a lot of people. And if you look back like being in that fraternity, do you think that like don't we're not going to blame like when when I went to like jump to conclusion and blame a fraternity to for it, but do you think that that like as a mom, do you think that contributed to them feeling like they were they could do whatever or was it not that was it alcohol infused? Yeah. Was it what was the thing that that brought the because it was if it was nine in the morning on a Sunday, would everyone be like, yeah, great idea. Would it have been the same response? Really though, that's the like would it have been? Yeah. No. I don't know. I don't think so. I mean, I you don't really hear about any of this happening when everyone sober. Well guys, I really, you know, this is a conversation and I I know it's a heavy one.

40:35I know it's a deep one, just as like moms, a lot of teens and tweens who are and growing adults who are about to go launch into their very own world. You stop and you think to yourself. Have I done everything? Have I taught everything? Have I done everything I can to like, did I miss something because that's what I would also want to hear from the moms? Do you feel like you didn't have enough of these open conversations? Yeah. And or they're not acceptable in your family. I like again, it's just it's so how it would be it's I know there's experts out there having this conversations. And maybe that's what we do is like, you know, find something someone who can help us navigate this happened. This happened now twice in the past like these situations. This conversation has come up, which makes me realize it has happened multiple times. So many more times we know and they're literally men sitting at their desk being like, please, please, please, please, please. So how do we as moms take this and reteach what are we as adults, not even moms, but we are two moms. I'm talking as adults missing for the next generation coming up.

41:35And I know people want to say society, patriarchy, yes, got it, but I want to know what I can do as a mom right now. And I would say right now and what we can find an expert right now with everything in life communication is like, just start it by having open questions. And also what I was going to say, I feel like it was a demoral. If you ask your kids, oh, you've heard about the story like what out of curiosity, what have you heard? Or what are the boys around you saying about it? Like, oh, I can't believe that fucking girl. Like she'd like what a, you know, yes, you know what that because that is it is easy to blame the girl. Yeah, but I'm just curious like, I know you've heard some of this stuff. No judgment. What? What is the dialogue? What is your feet? What is your feet? But also what algorithm? Yeah, what exactly? What are the boy and if anybody is talking in person about it? What are someone told you the story about it? How did they position it? Was the wording when they, how did they say it to you? And what was your original thought? When it's a big deal? Yeah. Or like why a lot of people like why'd she go back? Yeah.

42:36You don't think a lot of those conversations happen. And then you explain to them when they say like why would she ever really be like, let's just, let's start with that for a minute. Like you know what I mean? Well, apparently it was also her friend. And then they go on to say the stat of most women are assaulted by someone they know. Like in, and the other stat came out that I think it was at, it was at a university's, but at one of the university's 37% of women had been sexually assaulted. 37%. So like this isn't even just that seven. It's in general. What are we teaching these people? It's like no wonder that Taylor went through such a rigorous online, very open conversation and like tutorials and meetings that she had to go online before you were even allowed to start school. And it was all about this. And it was very open conversation. I'm thinking myself, I know my daughter might be like 17, but I had no problem with the boys in the room listening to this conversation because you can laugh at anything.

43:39It's like so funny and crazy, but really like someone's got to have it. But also like, what are you laughing about? Like what's so taboo about this stuff? You guys are all doing it. Yeah. You still want to talk about it. But like in reality, if we were a little more casual with all of this stuff, like yes, people are going to have sex, people are going to have drugs, people are going to get drunk. But if we openly talk about the consequences and what could possibly, but where you could potentially end up and then what do you do when you're there? Why is that such a full puppet to talk about? No, it's what needs to happen. So give us your thoughts. I'm going to, I think we just need to find an expert ASAP because I want actionable items that I can sit down and build my son up, but also let him know where lines are. And maybe that everyone's like, that's easy cat. If it was so easy, we wouldn't keep having to have these conversations of these situations come up. And maybe they'll end. Maybe it ends with us. I don't know. Like maybe this next generation is one that is like, oh, I know. That I hope so. I just have to, as a mom, I have to believe there's something we can do.

44:39I have to. Otherwise, what are we doing? Like there is something we can do, but there will always be them. Yes, but we can start with one and two and three. Oh, I hope it's not just starting with ours. But I mean, that's all I can go on because that's all I have control over. Yeah. Is, is, is, and I married someone who isn't. Mm-hmm. Do you know what I mean? I mean, it's just something I just think we have to take head on as two moms who have a platform with a bunch of other moms who probably also don't know what to say because we don't have the language. We can talk about the situation, but do we know what they're thinking? Do we know what they're saying? Do we know? And I know, unfortunately, a lot of schools probably aren't talking about it. No. Because it's a hard topic. And I, a lot of people don't have the language. I don't have the language. I don't have, I'm the first to say, I don't have the language of what to say. I don't, I can talk about it. But how do I know what's clocking? I don't. So like, what as an expert can I say to you to not make you feel ashamed to be a boy and not make you, not another lecture? Don't want another lecture. I want you to understand.

45:41I think you're amazing. And there's also a way to talk to boys where they don't feel like they're being talked at and that's also a big skill. Yeah. You feel like you're having an open dialogue conversation and it's not a big like. But this is a big, so how do you not make a casual but make a casual but, I feel like ongoing, constant. I know, but then that's also like, but not in a negative way, not in a bad way, in a way like lots of different topics, but also those. Yeah. And also what do you do in the situation? Yeah. It's a lot easier when you have one of the one boy. I bet. Because when you have one, it's real personal. Yeah. I guess so. I think I've always thought this and I think this is really hard and it might not be realistic. But I really think a conversation from the male in their life being able to say those words and talk about it would be really great. Yeah. I know a lot of them don't have the tools to do that. And a lot of them don't even know what's happening.

46:41I know. And bring you up to that. And a lot of them know what happens and is like, I wouldn't do that. So that's not my issue. Mm-hmm. I'm just saying how it is. Because I think it would matter hearing it from the boys because from a man, because also it's like if a man can talk to me, then potentially I can talk to another man. And you know maybe it starts with you ask the man in your life, like what would you have done? And I'm not judging you. I just would really love to know what would you have done in this situation? Like do you know it's wrong? And I'm not judging you. I'm just really curious. What do you do? Like how did you know? But they don't. Just out of curiosity. All right guys, give us your thoughts. We're going to try to fight. We said be great for this conversation because she works very in that demographic of teens. Mm-hmm. Okay. Peace out. Sorry for the heavy conversation. I'm going to go have fun now. It's just really on my mind raising kids, raising boys, raising things. Holy shit. We got this though.

47:41Oh yeah. There he goes. No big deal. Bare tea is no big deal. It is so easy. Yeah. No, I'm so it's like. There's actually never been an easier job right now. Especially with online. God, I saw this thing come up. It's like, oh, if all the jobs of mom were to do the salary that she would get, I was like, that is so fucking underpaid. He's like in the hundred thousand. Yeah. Sorry. Try three million. I'm like, now we just entered cop police suffer. Psychotherapist. Oh, there's like 167,000 dollars. I was like, oh, bitch, please. It's a lot more than that. And at this point, it's a lot easier to raise girls and boys. In this climate, it feels a lot easier to have girls. Do you agree? I don't know. Oh fuck. I know a lot of boymums feel that way. I find the girls just can ease. Let's wear a girl. Not a guy. You know what I mean? Yeah. I don't have one.

48:42Yeah. I mean, I've got really high testosterone. So you're relating better to the boys. So Natalie, what would you have done? Bye, y'all. This is the story of the one. As a shipping manager, he's running the dock, stocking supplies, and making sure every order goes out on time. And Granger helps him stay prepared. From shipping supplies to PPE to hand tools, he counts on Granger to keep products moving and trucks rolling. So his operation runs smoothly, no matter the shift. Call 1-800-GRAENGER. Click ranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. This podcast is brought to you by Thompson Reuters. The best don't just do their work. They change what's possible. Case is won. Audits completed.

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