We Read The Cat in the Hat & The Tiger Who Came to Tea

0:00You're listening to Eleanor and Alistair Red that. The podcast where two red-headed comedians revisit classic kids' books and ask the big questions. What is it with feline animals coming into houses uninvited? Can fish have eyelashes? And should they? And should they have eyelashes? eyelashes have to keep dust out, so no. And is it fun to be a woman in the 1960s? Jury's still out. Am I right? Yeah, I'm trying to get a high five from Eleanor, but it's not working. Yeah, I'm Eleanor Morton. I'm Alistair Beckett King. And this episode is The Tiger Who Came To Tea by Judith Care versus The Cat in the Hat by Dr. Zeus. These books were so short, I read them so quickly, I was impressed with myself, and then forgot to book in a recording session with you. And now, as always, there's hardly any time to record it and edit it. Oh, yeah, well, I mean, I'm not editing, so it's no skin of my teeth. Yeah, it's quite easy for you. Really, what you just need to do is say witty things over the next hour.

1:01And I will. And then I will edit them down to half an hour's worth of witty things. I could edit it. OK. Anyway, cracking so. This is a bit of a twist this episode. We're doing things a little bit differently. We're mixing up a format. People are going to hate this. People are going to be like, what? This isn't the classic podcast we've come to know, love. We're doing two books in the same episode, because they are the same book. I started reading one of them, and I was like, this is the same as the other book. It's a March madness for children's books about felines in houses. What are those books if people haven't guessed or heard us say during the intro, which they definitely will have? It's the cat in the hat by Dr. Zuss. Yes. And the tiger who came to tea by Judith Care. We might finally be able to decide who is better out of Britain and America, the two worst countries. LAUGHTER Who's the least terrible? Yeah, exactly. Who writes the best books about interloping cats? So, Alistair, what are your memories of the tiger

2:03who came to tea? Strong. OK, good. I have one distinct visual memory, probably one of those fake memories that you construct retrospectively, of standing on the landing of my childhood home, when my mum was asking if we could get rid of it because I was too old for it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I remember a sense of, oh, you know, leaving behind childish things. This is like two years ago, isn't it? Yeah. Yes, 28 years old. Which is how old I was two years ago of any casting agents that were listening. So, I feel a sense of melancholy sadness when I think about it. How about you? I suppose the same in that it is a very formative memory and, you know, looking at it now, I look back on a simpler time when this was my whole world, tigers coming to tea. I should also say, I have, because I always do, a beautiful, illustrated book here. It's called Judith Care's Creatures and it is the author's all-her. All her works and sort of her life story. That's very long. I can see Moog. Moog's in there. If you don't know Moog, she is another stalwart of children's literature in Britain.

3:03But yes, I feel like also the very 70s vibe of it is very, it's very British. It's very British. I think it was actually 1968, I was talking about that. At the very end of the 60s, it was published. Yeah, so everyone born after, I suppose, 1960, almost certainly had this read to them or at least had an awareness of it. Yeah, I wonder if Americans know it as well as we do because my first thought when I was coming back to it was, if you were doing a profile of the golfer Tiger Woods, how could you not use the pun, the Tiger, who came to tea? With, because it's, I just got it. I know, and I googled it. I thought someone must have written this profile and no one has written that. I mean, obviously. You've just given that idea away for free. Yeah, I think we may have missed the prime window for doing profiles of Tiger Woods. I might have come a little bit later. As they birthday as me. But I can only assume that Americans don't know the book well enough. Otherwise, there will be a proliferation of articles using that as a headline. So the plot is a pretty complex. It's very dust, do you have skin? No, it's not. Well, it's a little bit like a Goggle short story. It is, actually. It's much cooler. And domestic with one very strange element in it.

4:07So it's Sophie and her mum and they are hanging out in the house and there's a knock on the door. A ring in fact on the door. And Sophie's mum's like, well, it can't be the milkman and it can't be the boy from the groceries because that's what they used to have. Little boy come around on a bike. Yeah, just children used to work in those days. Yeah. It was good. It was better. It was better. So they opened the door and who was it? Who's there? A tiger. A six foot tall tiger who walks on his hind legs. He's very big. He's very tiger-sized. Really beautifully drawn. I have to say. Yes. And a lovely cute little face. And he says, excuse me. I'm very hungry. Do you think I could have tea with you? And Sophie's mum says, yeah. Yeah. All normal so far. Mm-hmm. And the tiger comes in and sits down and they give him a sandwich. I also remember the food in this looking for appetizing. Yes. He eats all the sandwiches. He eats all the buns. And then he eats all the biscuits and the cake. And then he drinks all the milk and drinks all the tea. And then he's still not satisfied because I suppose really what he needs is like an

5:10antelope. Yeah, he starts to prowl around the house looking for more food. But there's something odd with the way he's drawn. He's so sweet. And in almost every picture, Sophie is looking admiringly at the tiger. Or actually just hugging the tiger. Hugging him. Yes. She's very happy with it. So he looks for what else he can find, which I did relate to as a child. You know, you would go through the cupboards like my parents didn't have a lot of sweets in the house. And so I would eat like the mincemeat out of the jar for the mince pies. No way. Were you brought up in a low sweet household? Yes. And not out of cruelty. They just didn't have sweet teeth themselves. My mum doesn't eat sweet food. Yeah. But my mum loves a crisp sandwich. She's a very savoury lady. A very savoury lady. Savoury lady. Yet another ABK on a bonding moment as we discover that we both grew up in a world without treats. And that didn't mean that now I have constantly fixated on sugary food and see it as a treat that I must have all times. I have to finish me up. I need to have a little treat, otherwise I'll be sad.

6:11Like your child. I also think my mum's taste is hilariously British wartime vibes. She loves dripping with bread, which is not a thing anyone eats. Oh no. I don't think you should eat any verbs. No. So after he's eaten the amount of house and home, he drinks all the milk and the juice and all daddy's beer, but not mummies beer. That's safe. I see mummies doesn't have beer. I don't think women in the 60s drunk beer was. No. The portrait of mummies life does now that I'm an adult race and question. When you're a kid you read it from selfies point of view and there's an adult you're really going, I don't know how much fun it is to be mummies. And then he drank all the water in the tap, which I didn't know was a thing. I don't think it is. Yes, very funny. It's very funny. And then he just goes, thank you for my nice tea. I think I'd better go now. All right, bye. Bye. Anyway, it's a lovely goodbye. You're hearing Eleanor tell the story, of course. If people know that the Channel 4 adaptation of it, they'll be used to hearing it narrated by beloved children's author David Walliams. So I hope it wasn't too jarring. Oh, is that really?

7:12Yeah. Yes. I could do his voice. Can you do David Walliams? Yes. David Walliam. No, not really. So the Sophie's mum's like, well, I don't know what to do now. We've got nothing for tea and Sophie can't even have a bath because he's drunk all the water. Sophie's dad comes home and they're like, listen, Trusters, a tiger came to tea and he ate all the food and he drank all the drink. I'm glad you said it like that because reading this as an adult, I was reading it very much enjoying it. And then I got to this page where Sophie and Mummy tell Daddy what happened. And they're lying and they never occurred to me as a child, but there isn't a tiger and they're lying. But when you look at the drawing, it's a drawing of Mummy lying. She's got her hands wide to show the size of the tiger. And Sophie is sort of not making eye contact with Daddy and has a little smirk on her face. I did not pick up on that at all and now. But Sophie thinks that she's fooling Daddy and I think that's the, I think not to blow this case wide open, but I think that's the story. I think she is. No, you're right. She is. She's looking very like Smurkey. And then in the next drawing, but one, Sophie's Dad says, I've got a good idea.

8:16We'll put in our coats and go to a cafe. The dream. Yes. Oh. And then they go out into the street. And there's a lovely illustration of them in the street. And there's a cat. There's a stripy cat. Which looks a lot like the tiger that we've seen previously. So was it a tiger or was it a cat? Hmm. Childhood ruined. Thank you, Judith Kerr. Childhood ruined. By lying. Yes, again. And child. Being woman ruins adult man's childhood. And they had a lovely supple with just as great sausages and chips and ice cream. Again, the dream. Not at the same time presumably, but it does actually say sausages and chips and ice cream. I was going to say I'm sure Americans could believe that there was a British dish, which is sausages and chips and ice cream. And then in the morning, Sophie and Hammond me go shopping and they buy loads more things to eat. And they also buy a very big tin of tiger food, just in case he comes back, but he never does. And then there's a lovely drawing of him playing a trumpet, is it? Yes. The same goodbye. Goodbye. And that is the end of the tiger came to tea.

9:16What do you like about it after? It's got such beautiful illustrations. I didn't think I was going to like them because they're very dated, but they're so stylish. They are. And I like the way that the tiger is sort of, I mean, I wouldn't say realistic, but he's got, he's, you know, he's very tiger-y, but he's also. He's an inch. Yeah. He has a little bit threatening, but also, you know, he's got this charming smile and you think, who is this guy? I need to know more about it. Yes. I need to know his story. Yeah. So I read a little bit about it on the Wikipedia. It mentions that Michael Rosen reckons that the tiger is the Nazis, which I think is a stretch. Obviously, Judith Coe was Jewish and her family not very narrowly escaped the Nazis. And so he saw in the tiger, he saw sort of a big disruption coming into, that can randomly come into a child's life and do all kinds of damage. No doubt that was a big deal for her, but I don't think this isn't mouse. This isn't mouse. This is the British mouse. This is the British mouse. I don't think the tiger is a Nazi. I'm glad you brought this up because I am a huge Judith Care fan. I wrote a chapter about her in my book, a life lessons from historical women available

10:19in all good and bad bookshops, ask you independent shop, please, but the conglomerates also have it. She did escape the Nazis. Her dad was a very famous German Jewish writer. He was called Desculture Papsd, which meant the culture Pope, but that was how influential he was. And he was on the first list that the Nazis drew up of people who they were going to get. So they literally left the country the day after the election in 1933. And I think I read that the Nazis came for them the next day. They did, yes. They escaped that now. Yes. And they moved from Germany to Switzerland to France and then eventually to Britain and that's where she settled. But she wrote three books all about her childhood up into her adulthood after the war, sort of semi-fictionalized, but it's based on her life. And they're really great. I recommend them. They're very well written. But what's really funny is, when you say that's Michael Rosen in commentary, and I love Michael Rosen. Oh, yeah. Michael Rosen's great. But I think it was put to her that this might be the Nazis. And she said, I wrote a book about the Nazis. You could go read that. I didn't need to put an allegory in this book about the tiger.

11:22I've already written very unallagorically about my experiences as someone who loves to find meaning and symbolism where it isn't. I don't think the tiger is an Nazi. Oh, I don't know, defend this tiger from Nazi allegations. You can't say anything anymore. You think everyone's a Nazi? You think everyone's not. What you think go-balls was a Nazi. So what she said this was, was that she used to take a daughter to see the tigers of the zoo. And she would make up stories about the tigers to entertain her child. And that is sort of the origin of this. And so I do think that the mom character, this sort of mom who's sort of panicking about the fact that she's not only fooded and it's all a mess and it's all sort of top stuff. I think I would imagine based a little bit on her own experience of being a frustrated creative stuck in a domestic situation and trying to make the best of it. Yes, although I've just noticed on the first page the table only has three legs. She's forgotten to draw the fourth leg. So does it mean unreadable? So yeah, are you going to call me a sexist if I talk about her husband?

12:24No, I like her husband. It was Nigel Neal. I didn't know that. It was Nigel. Of the quite a mass experiment and the stone tape. Yes, big famous British sci-fi sort of original voice. Yes, for me it's like the quintessentially British sci-fi where it's like nine men or shouting at each other in a room because they're stage actors who don't know that you're on TV. No. Come along, Janet. Stop crying as a ghost here. Don't you realise? Goodness, woman. And she wore a pinnacle. Yeah, exactly. She'll be sort of bringing them tea and saying, have you found all the ghosts yet? Not all of them, Janet! Quiet! For goodness sake, Janet, this is science. We're trying to catch ghosts here. Yes, they had a very happy marriage as far as I'm away and I don't think she was deeply unhappy at home. I think she drew from life and life was raising kids and going to the times at the zone and turns out everyone loves that, so well done, Judith. You've already said a little bit, but what did you like about yourself? I like all the same things. I think the illustrations are lovely. They're charming. They're very old, but in a good way. Well, except for the leg missing from the table.

13:24That's right. That's right. Absolutely disgrace. Obviously, very upsetting there. And that, I think, it's just so simple and, you know, it's one of those things where you don't question it as a child. You're like, yes, the tiger comes to tea. And then you look back and go, that was a funny idea. Yes, yeah. I imagine I'm cold and slightly binostalgia, but I also think how could you not like this book? Normally we do age badly, but I think this is great. No, I think it's bang on 10 out of 10 would read again. Eleanor, what do you remember about the cat in the hat? To the tiger who came to tea, I can't remember when it came into my life. It just was sort of there. I remember being slightly too old for the Mike Myers film when it came out, but just the right age to enjoy the Grinch, which was, or maybe they were around the same time, but I prefer the Grinch. The Jim Carrey. The Jim Carrey one, which I very much think is a Marmite film, I think, either you watched it when you were 10 and you love it, or you watch it now and you think, what the hell is this? It's a Ron Howard film. So it's got his ears. Oh, there you go. It's a Ron Howard joint. I explained it.

14:25That's that. King of the old tours. Ron Howard. But he's having fun. I don't think we had any doctors, though, but I certainly remember reading it and it being in libraries. What about you? Well, it was certainly around in the UK when I was a kid, but I think there was a distinctly anti-American bent when I was growing up. Parents didn't like kids watching American cartoons. Yeah. And so I didn't grow up with Dr. Sus being a big thing. I was aware of it. Of course. I got older. I read his ones for older kids, like the law racks, which I really liked, but I didn't as a child read the cat and hat. So it's a primer book. I didn't really know what that was. And I've only just found out that Americans pronounce it Prima. Prima. They're crazy. What are you doing? They say aluminum. It's smart. So it's a Prima, like, you know, C spot run and Dick and Jane, which I hated as a kid because I was fairly good at reading. And so I just found it incredibly boring to be forced to read these really simple books in school. Little ABK was too clever for books.

15:25I was a little precocious wanker. Well, I certainly wasn't. I never remember enjoying any of the simple books. And I think it was meant to be a reaction to those sort of boring primers. I think he says. Yeah. Laterally says, you know, they were all quite sanctimonious and they're all these sort of clean, normal sort of children behaving. It was very dull and I didn't really reflect how children behave. OK, so this is the cat in the hat by Theodore Sus Geisel, not a real doctor, not a real doctor. The lies begin here or that apparently dropped out of a PhD at Oxford to become a cartoonist where you have to admit it's pretty rock and roll. That's pretty cool. Pretty cool. It begins with two children, the boy is the narrator and he's there with his sister Sally. Yes. And they sit in their chair staring out on a rainy day miserable. I do think it's quite funny to imagine that children would do that. And their mums are way. So they've just been left at home. I think this is 1954. I guess maybe children will have to home on their own in the 50s more than they are these days. Judith Care actually says in her, in this book I have, that she used to leave her, her

16:26baby in its prime outside and check it out occasionally. It was all very, very different things were different in those days. And then boom, this time there is a bump at the door and incomes cat wearing a hat. Not looking, I would say, a huge amount like a cat. No, and I will come back later to my feelings on this. I get the impression that you don't like the style of drawing. I like elements and aspects and bits of it, but there's some of it I deeply find uncomfortable and I can't tell you what. I can't wait to hear about that. So it's a cat in a hat. Of course, the whole thing is written in rhyme. The cat in the hat comes striding in and offers to play some games and tricks. Yes. Now, the kids are not being supervised except by a fish in a bowl and that fish is what a drip. A wet blanket. What a joy, kid. The cat just wants to come in and balance all the precious things in the house in a massive pile, including the fish bowl and the fish keeps saying, oh, stop, he's making a mess.

17:27Your mum's going to come back and I'm sure as a kid you're supposed to be like, shut up, fish. Yeah. But as an adult, I was like, they should listen to this fish. This is going to make such a mess. And then who's going to clear that muggins here? As an adult reading it, 100% on the fish's side. Yeah, me too. Maybe as a child, I was. Yeah. Would you think you were a fish cider? Was it joined? Well, I had OCD full disclosure, so I was obsessively tidy because I was scared of dying. So I do. Just another fun, oh, no, anecdotes. Yeah. But I do think most children would not, would not be like, we should tidy up now. Maybe just me. So the first game is called Up, Up, Up with a fish, which involves balancing the fish on the end of an umbrella, along with lots of other things while the cat stands on a pool like it's at the circus. And the kids mainly look frightened and baffled by this as the cat passes more and more thing. And then, of course, they all come tumbling down. It's not really a game, is it? It's not a game or a trick. And the fish lands in the tea pot.

18:28Luckily. The fish is furious. And you can talk to his frowning because these fish have eyebrows. The cat does look genuinely upset that he is fucked up. It's quite funny. The red bent rake. The drawings are funny. So the cat quickly recovers and comes up with another game, rushes out of the house and brings in a red box. And I really like what's in the box. I have to be honest. I don't like what's in the box. Really? Do you know that? No. Because I enjoy the first game. But inside the box, our thing won and thing too. Two tiny little creatures with bushy blue hair, vaguely sort of, you can say it. I was going to say umpa-lumpa-like. Yes. I was going to say there is argument that a lot of his early stuff was based on menstrual stereotypes. Well, maybe there is an element of that. Yeah. Am I overthinking that? Well, the cat is wearing those white gloves, but they were also almost ubiquitous in cartoons. That's very true. But of course, the reason they're ubiquitous in American cartoons is mistroshoes. And you were looking at the thing. So yeah, it's difficult to unpick that.

19:28I was just going to say that they reminded me of the umpa-lumpas about whom there's no racist controversy. You. I'm maybe I'm big too heavy-handed there. I don't know. I don't want to ruin thing one and thing two for people who don't think that the aberrations. I know. They are horrible little monsters, slightly shorter than the children. They come out and they shake hands with the kids. Who still don't look happy? Yeah, the kids look really panicked all the way through. It's really different in terms of tone to the tiger who came to tea because in the tiger who came to tea, the chaos is so calm. It's very British chaos. And Sophie's having such a lovely time. She's stroking the tiger's tail. Whereas in this case, the chaos is really freaking the kids out. Yeah, they do not look happy. These things are good things, says the cat in the hat. And they like to fly kites and so they run around the house flying kites, which as you and I know, I don't know, is not something you should do in a house. No. Once again, it's causing incredible damage. And again, the children are not enjoying it at all. Well, they're not flying kites. They're just watching these. They're watching too. The creepy creatures fly kites. And knock over vases. Oh, and that's one of Mother's new gowns being caught on the line of the kite.

20:32This is a disaster. Yes. It's all chaotic. And the fish is caught. He's in his tea pot. We keep saying, you know, what's mum going to think about this? This is disgraceful behaviour. And then he looks out the window. Oh, and what's that? A small part of Mother's body. Because this book never shows the entirety of their mother. It only ever shows a part of her leg and her red coat. It's very Tom and Jerry. Again, something that couldn't possibly be considered racist. Yeah, they need to get rid of all of this quickly. In the amount of time it would take Mum to reach the front door. In the 30 seconds it would take her to the window. Yeah. And luckily the boy has a massive net as you do. Yes. So he gets his thing catching net. He catches the things and the cat is really dismayed that the kids didn't like the game. Again, a complete failure. Oh, dear. What a shame. What a shame. Says the catch. So he takes the way, but he comes back with a cleaning car, a machine. Yeah. The cleaning. Yes. Some kind of clean machine with robot arms coming out of all sorts of apertures on it.

21:35The arms are also racist. And they quickly sweep and brush and rearrange everything, putting everything back as they ought to be even plopping the fish back into its bowl and it's got a big smile on its face. Yes. It's locked back into its bowl just in time. Because at that moment, Mother comes stepping through the door to find the house exactly as it was at the start of the book. Yes. And they're thinking, well, should we say what happened? Should we tell her about it now? What should we do? Well, what would you do if your mother asked you? Oh, and that's the end. Who do you think is the Nazis in this one? It's the fish. I think we know it's the fish. So Eleanor, that's the end of the cat and the hat. What did you like about it? If anything, because I get the sense that you don't like this book, so let's hear it. I like the idea of this book and I like you like that there is a book. There is a book called Cat-Hat. I like the rhymes. They're always very fun to say. I do think they are great, primer books and the whole concept is fun.

22:35I do think the drawings are great. I do, honestly. I think they're very creative and they're obviously very distinct style. I like the whole three-tone color thing they've got going on there. Yes, so it's all just black ink and blue and red. And I also like the fact that it's this magical realism and it reflects the chaos of real children as opposed to Dick and Jane sitting politely watching it rain all day. That's what I like. What do you like? I do love the drawings and the rhymes and the weirdness of it. It's a nonsense poem, really. I think the cat in the hat was chosen because it sounds good. Yes. And I think a lot of his rhymes and a lot of the nonsense starts out verbal and then the verbal nonsense is translated into these extremely strange drawings. There was something interesting Judith Care said about her later books that she said she never wanted to do a drawing that the words were describing. She was wanting them to be two separate things because she said there's no point writing what they can see. And this book does write what you can see. That's true. Although I think that is a characteristic of primers or primers.

23:36And I have to say some of the rhymes do stretch as much as it's fun. What were you doing in one of your classic American accents, Elena? Because maybe they worked better. And it sounded not shine. It was too wet to play. So we sat in the house all that cold, cold, wet day. And that's the way you're saying it with uptalk there. Like a TikTok influencer. It sounded not shine. It was too wet to play. So we sat in the house all that cold, cold, wet day. What was your American? I was a big fan of the lorex. And so at the far end of town where the grickle grass grows and the wind smells slow and sour as it blows. Who is that? That voice. Yes. I don't know. American cartoons or every sort of cartoon today. Who we are in a little town. It feels like that's how every American cartoon used to start. You know, so I like Dr. Sous as a guy. I haven't checked whether he has any controversies on his Wikipedia page. He does. Does he? All right. Okay. Let's move on to what has aged poorly about this book or indeed Dr. Sous's body of work. Sous, Zeus, I keep changing my pronunciation.

24:38Elena. I don't know if anything's aged poorly. I just don't know that I like it. And I think it's just one of those things where it's just, it's not for me. Most of the drawings are fine, but the cat and other certainly. It is a revolting cat. It's a certain character. Thing one thing to the cat and a couple of other characters. Not the Grinch interestingly, but a lot of the other ones. Just to be clear, that's the cat. Thing one thing to and a couple of other characters in a book that only has six characters. No, sorry. I meant in the, in the movie. Oh, really? Dr. Sous's universe. I see. I thought he meant in this book. No. That leaves like one of the kids you don't hate. The children. I hate the children. The woman's foot to the typist. It's really not interested in real life in the way that the tiger who came to tea is, because mother is just a shape. Yes. You know, a symbol of being a mother. Compared to self-pes mum, who is actually depicted with a lot of sort of tenderness and detail. And also, um, has not left her children on super long. It's an uncanny valley thing, I think. There's just certain, I like the law racks. I like the elephant in Houghton here, who? The elephant in Houghton, who?

25:38Who is who? Me and Houghton here. It sounds like something American army would. Houghton, Houghton, Houghton, Houghton, Houghton. I don't know that coming. Thanks. There's something about the, there's just something about it that is uncanny for me and I find uncomfortable and weird and creepy. It is creepy and I think it's the eyelashes. Yes, it is the eyelashes. It's the eyelashes. They've all got eyelashes and it makes them look weird. That's so true. How about you? What do you think is aged poorly? I think it's almost a book about nothing. Mmm. That's the weakest thing about it for me. I would have told you that this was the surreal book of the two if you had asked me before I reread them, but it isn't. It feels like an extended hilaire belloc and would lay a kind of, it's a piece of nonsense, which is fine, it's beautifully done. Yes. But it is just a piece of nonsense. Who's the guy who does the horrible alphabet A is for Aida who fell? Edward Gorey. Yes, it's very that. Oh, well, I love Edward Gorey. I also love it, but I think that is trying to be creepy and this isn't and that's what makes it creepy.

26:39So a big question. Which of these would you read to your hypothetical child, Elster? So we'll have to choose. I think we should choose, yes. I'm shocked to say this, but I think it's the tiger who came to tea. I'm not shocked. I thought you would say that. Well, I thought I would say the big, funny, rhyming one. Yes. And I didn't think I would like the drab, suburban illustrations of the tiger who came to tea as much as I did. The cat and hat is iconic of his work and of a certain kind of kids book, but also like an icon. It's very too dimensional. There's not a huge amount of depth to it. It is iconic, but the tiger who came to tea is a better book. So I would read that to my hypothetical child. Who is called? I'm going to have to go with Janet. Our proper late 60s. Have we had a Janet before? I don't think so, no. Then Janet is the best 1968 child's name. I can think of. Which book would you read to your hypothetical child? And what is your hypothetical child called? My hypothetical child is called Jimmy.

27:40Again, another 60s British child. More American though. Jimmy, Jimmy, no, you're right. You've got an American kid. I've got an American kid, but I'm going to read it on a British book. Cool. I'm going to read the tiger who came to tea. And again, I think for exactly the same reasons as you. In your face suits. Yeah, Britain wins this war. No. And I think, and maybe we have been influenced by our own nostalgia and maybe, maybe we have sentimental values. No, I don't think so. I think it's better. Yeah, I just like it more. And I think that's probably what everyone expected to happen in the sun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think anybody is going to be surprised that we're in a British one in the end. Unfortunately, that is what happened. And maybe it's because we're all in Jelester, maybe we. We see ourselves in the tiger, yeah. Or is the tiger the cold war? Is the tiger cruise ships? And the tap water is resources. I think the three-legged table, I think that's the Bay of Pigs. I'm not sure, but I think it is. JFK is the teapot.

28:43Thanks for listening to Eleanor Analysis to read that. If you'd like to hear more, please subscribe, rate, give us a review, recommend us to a friend, or send us a little bit of money on kofi.com, forward slash, read that, underscore podcast. And we'll be back next time with Johnny and the Bomb by Terry Pratchett. B-B-B-U. What's that, you're? That's the Terry Pratchett, Eleanor. B-B-B-U. B-B-U. We do that a lot. But I will say the Jim Carrey version of the Grinch is one of my favourite films ever, and me and my sister endlessly quote it to each other. I'm so glad Eleanor has finally defended an objectively bad film, because so far it's just been me. I love it. I'll always love it. Hi, this is Alistair. If you're listening to this in the week of release, I am currently on tour of the UK. So if you want to hear me talking, but Eleanor doesn't say anything, wow, that sounds amazing, Alistair. How can we do that? You can buy tickets to King of Crums. Sheffield is sold out. Don't bother with that one. Chumsford, Birmingham, Tumberidge Wells,

29:44Maidston, Norwich also sold out. Leeds definitely not sold out. Manchester, not sold out. Coming to the Leicester Square Theatre in London twice, Cambridge, Swindon, Salisbury and Aldershot. And if you're not in the UK, I think you should probably still buy it again anyway, just feel involved.