Washington insiders calls for AI controls

0:00ABC Listen, podcasts, radio, news, music and more. Good morning, welcome to AM, it's Wednesday, 16th of September. I'm Rachel Mealy coming to you from the lands of the trouble and Jaggera people in Brisbane. A bipartisan group of American political figures has gathered in Washington to call on governments around the world to rein in rapidly advancing artificial intelligence. It comes amid mounting warnings from tech leaders of the existential threat posed by AI. Our reporter, Kason Ho, joined me a short time ago from the event in Washington. Kason, who has spoken at this conference and what stood out to you? Well, Rachel, we've heard stories today about some of the worst case scenarios involving artificial intelligence from parents who spoke about how some of their children used AI chatbots which encouraged them to take or attempt to take their own lives. But those individual concerns were also brought in out by an unexpected combo of political figures,

1:05opposite polls of the political spectrum joining forces to raise the red flag on artificial intelligence. We had independent Senator Bernie Sanders, a left wing socialist and right wing strategist Steve Bannon who once advised Donald Trump in the White House both headlining this event. They added to this growing chorus of concern around the risks of AI, but the directions they want to take to address it differ. Let's take a listen. When the future of humanity is at stake, we need binding international safety rules, not voluntary standards from the industries. Choke them off. That's what we have to do today to the Chinese Communist Party. No deals, no agreements, you're out of the AI business because we're going to shut your ecosystem down. That's Steve Bannon there and before him Bernie Sanders, that is a surprise combination case. And this issue looks set to dominate an upcoming meeting between President Trump

2:09and the Chinese leader Xi Jinping. What can we expect there? Well, Rachel, artificial intelligence and its governance is an issue which has been bubbling away in the background for a long time, and it's really come to a head in the past week with calls from people inside the industry, leaders of the AI industry, talking about the concerns that this technology could pose. But it's an issue which the US President Donald Trump has outwardly rebuked, calling warnings about existential threats, a hoax and a conspiracy. But we are still expecting artificial intelligence and its governance to be a major talking point between Donald Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping when he visits Washington next week. Now, Donald Trump has previously said a key reason he won't push for tighter regulation is because he wants to beat China. And he wants the United States to stay at the forefront of AI development. But the US President's rhetoric and willingness to engage on this issue,

3:12even if he is just swathing away these warnings from the industry and others, points to just how critical of an issue AI may be to voters as we approach the midterm elections here in the US in November. Reporter Kason Ho there in Washington, US Attorney General Todd Blanche says the White House has no plans to regulate AI, and that concerns are exaggerated and only being raised now to try to influence the outcome of the upcoming US midterm elections. This should not be breaking news that this AI issue that suddenly come up two months before an election is being, I mean, the President calls it a hoax. That the way this has come around today and not three months ago, I mean, I was watching the news today, every Democrat Senator suddenly races to a microphone to talk about AI after being eerily silent for months and months and months. So to talk about the timing of this as being nothing but an effort to influence the midterms, I shouldn't have to say that out loud, of course that what it is, that's what it is,

4:13and that shouldn't be what drives the decisions that we're making around AI. We can't lose the AI race to China, right? President Trump says that, everybody says that, but they say it because it's true. The Iranian-backed Houthi rebels say Saudi Arabia has launched dozens of air attacks as Yemen's internationally recognized government and accuses the militia of killing and displacing civilians during its rapid advance. Saudi Arabia told European customers that some September shipments will be cancelled as fighting across the region threatens the country's oil supplies. For more, I was joined by our Middle East correspondent, Caitlin Kelly. Caitlin, the fighting appears to have intensified. Yes, we've heard that reportedly 40 casualties have occurred since this escalation over the past few days. The Houthis just a few hours ago reported three people dead, and there's been this intense exchange of fire in the last 24 hours. Both sides accusing the other of airstrikes.

5:14We've heard there's been siren sounding in parts of Saudi Arabia, including Mecca for the first time. As the Prime Minister of Yemen's internationally recognized government has accused the Houthis of all killing and displacing civilians. What we do know from the recent figures that the UN released today is that over 125,000 people have been displaced in this fighting just in the past fortnight, as it continues to escalate. And many countries are condemning the fighting, including Qatar's foreign ministry, which you can hear here. I think what we can stress on is the freedom from the navigation industry to farmers, as it's very important to the state of Qatar and to the rest of the world. And Qatar is working diligently with its international and regional partner to reach a consensus and to push forward dialogue on that point. And what's the significance for oil supplies? So the most immediate consequence that we've seen in the past few hours is that Saudi Aramco are saying that European customers, they've told European customers that some European oil shipments for this month will be cancelled.

6:17That could have a huge knock on effect for the global market, of course. And then there's also the geography of things. So, humours was in some ways a sort of opportunity for Saudi. When it became a bottleneck for the words oil, Saudi sort of offered this alternative route through the Babel Mandeb straight. But now the Houthis threatened that this has actually become a huge vulnerability for Saudi. And they now have three oil routes that are really exposed. The Strait of Humours, the Babel Mandeb, and also this key pipeline in the north of the country which was attacked by around our line forces in Iraq. And that, its peak, had seven million barrels flowing through a day. So the fallout is huge and the price of crude oil is just continuing to climb. And is there any likelihood of US intervention? Well, we heard from the US Energy Secretary Chris Wright that he says oil will flow in this pipeline in particular within the next few days. That we're not sure how true that is as we're also seeing reports that it could take longer to fix.

7:19What's important to remember is that the Houthis haven't said they will actually close this straight. And so it's not clear whether the US will get involved because it's not really in the US as interest at the moment with the midterms. We've seen some response that they're keeping on top of things we heard from Rubio this earlier in the day, but there's a reluctance in general to put boots on the ground when it comes to the US, particularly ahead of the midterms. What's also important to remember is that this is, of course, original conflict and the Houthis are taking advantage of it being original conflict, but they have very clear and key domestic policies. They went to take over territory in Yemen and for them, there's really much interest getting the US involved and opening up another front and hindering them from achieving that goal of taking over more of Yemen. So you've got this regional conflict and these oil issues that overlap onto essentially a rebel group who also want to take more territory. Middle East correspondent Caitlin Kelly, the shipping industry says it's not willing to risk navigating the Babel Mandib straight.

8:23If there's any risk of attack, Lars Jensen is the CEO of the container shipping company, Vispucci Maritime. The Babel Mandib straight itself is vital importance because it's the access road to base it to get to the US canal. Closing Babel Mandib is just as important as closing the US canal. The important part for the sea ferris is if you're suddenly finding yourself on a ship that might get shot at. The tolerance for risk is very low. It doesn't take much risk than the shipping line simply say, this is too risky, we won't risk our sea ferris lives and your DBA can go around. Nobody wants to hear from a debt collector, especially if you're not responsible for the debt in the first place. Many Australians find themselves being harassed for debts they didn't incur and the use of AI in the account system is often to blame. Legal and consumer experts say it's a clear breach of the law with one describing it as RoboDec 2.0.

9:29Here's business reporter Adelaide Miller. It was just before Christmas when 81-year-old Diane Walker was involved in a minor car accident she was not responsible for. This car came from behind on my left and came very close to me and our review mirror is just touched. A week later the other cars insurer Amy, part of the SunCorp Group, contacted Ms Walker, looking to recover costs. But when she asked for evidence which SunCorp did not have, it engaged its debt collector agent, Armour Group, which spent the next four months sending legal threats and harassing Ms Walker into paying a claim she was not liable for. They were rather bullying type letters. I'm just worrying it's in the back of your mind all the time. Once a freelance camera operator for the ABC Ms Walker's son Scott Walker stepped in to support his mum. He said he spent hundreds of hours trying to make sense of Armour's language. The wording sounds very much like there's been some legal decision made, some type of independent judicial system that has found an outcome where nothing, nothing like that had happened.

10:36Armour Group contacted Ms Walker in February stating she had been found liable and they were looking to recover nearly $1200. Another letter was sent with a final notice of the same amount before increasing to nearly $1400. Another letter from Armour said if you choose to dispute the issue with arguments that are not relevant, we will have no choice but to escalate the matter further. You are welcome to present those arguments in court if you believe they support your case. If you were found liable, you would be liable for court fees as well. This is Robo debt 2.0 of the worst form. That's the former chair of the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, Alan Fels. This seems to be the worst kind of illegal deceptive conduct applied to bully, intimidate, frightened. Diane Walker's case is just the tip of the iceberg with the Consumer Watchdog alleging Armour Group and Force Legal, both owned by critically limited, allegedly sent 320,000 misleading and deceptive debt collector notices to individuals between 2022 and 2025.

11:45Armours processes are automated with its website boasting it takes less than two minutes to set up a smart payment plan and no manual intervention is required. The executive of the Consumer Action Law Centre, Steph Tonkin, is concerned Ms Walker's case is systemic. What Diane's case signals to me is that there is a very problematic culture at Armour that runs deep into the organisation. It appears automated decision making has been used with little or no, frankly, oversight or checks and balances in place. I'm really worried about the future of this industry and the lack of consumer-centred design and the lack of safeguards that businesses putting in to ensure that consumers aren't harmed. In June this year, Suncourt executives dropped the case against Ms Walker due to a lack of evidence, admitting Armour was engaged prematurely. The insurer apologised and paid her $1500 for the distress caused, but without the help of her son, she says the outcome could have been vastly different.

12:53I probably would have just given them my insurance details or paid whatever they asked me to do. Athelad Miller reporting, there are fresh calls for specialised help for prisoners after more grim statistics showing most have an existing mental illness or substance use disorder. The Northern Territory-based research found almost two-thirds of the mostly indigenous inmates had a mental health diagnosis compared with 43% of the general population. But doctors say the NT has no secure forensic mental health facility as anti-guest reports. Working as a forensic psychiatrist in the Northern Territory, Dr. Sarah Darrington noticed a lot of people in custody with a mental illness, so she embarked on research to quantify it. About half of male prisoners and just over three quarters of female prisoners have a mental illness of some description.

13:56So that could be substance use disorder, that could be depression, anxiety, schizophrenia. You name it, there's someone in prison that has it. The research published today in the journal Australian Psychiatry, analysed 310 adult prisoner files in 2024, and also found just over half of the men and nearly 70% of the women had been diagnosed with substance misuse disorder. While less than 2% had fetal alcohol spectrum disorder, Dr. Darrington believes it's much higher but underdiagnosed in remote communities. There's a lot of complex reasons why they might develop these conditions. And it's usually a combination of, you know, things like genetics and family history, but also really representative of the ongoing impacts of trauma, historical disadvantage, and sort of ongoing disadvantage, really. The Northern Territories in Carceration rate is five times the national average, and almost all inmates are indigenous, that's despite making up only about 25% of the NT population.

15:07The majority of prisoners are men from remote communities for whom English is a second language. And Dr. Darrington says indigenous women are particularly vulnerable. Of course, some of them have engaged in violent offending behaviour, but almost all of them, especially women, have also been victims of trauma too. It's a reality that Darrington sees in her role supporting prisoners. The North Australian Aboriginal Justice Agency Mental Health Workers says all the women are homeless. I would say every one of the females that we work with has had their children removed, and then grappling with that trauma that they can just never really shake. But Danica Winterton worries there's very little targeted help. We've got a lot of people who we see regularly, and we can see them just to deteriorating because they're not getting any support. Dr. Darrington agrees calling on the NT government to equip prisons with secure forensic mental health facilities and specialised services to support prisoners with mental illness or substance misuse disorder.

16:13If people are offending because they've got a mental illness or they are homeless or in poverty or they're traumatised and they're struggling to manage that trauma through using drugs and alcohol. Putting them in prison isn't going to change any of that. It's actually just going to make things worse in the long run. Instead, Dr. Darrington says addressing homelessness and psychosocial disadvantage will help keep communities safer. The NT government has been contacted for comment. Annie Guest reporting with Tani Josh. Australian farmers are urging the federal government to resume the normal processing of backpacker visas. They say a current go-slow on approving working holiday makers entry to the country is threatening crops, including some Christmas favourites. All of a Gordon reports. A blunt message from a fretting farmer. I mean, it's blindingly obvious. Harvest is coming. Steve Reispray runs a cherry farm in Victoria's Yarra Valley.

17:13It's calling on the federal government to start processing backpacker visas at the normal rate to bolster the workforce. When the picking the harvest starts, we need several hundred people. All of a sudden, so that starts in late October, but really ramps up in November. So we get really busy quite quickly. Under pressure to reduce overseas arrivals, the government's slowed down its processing of backpacker visas. Yes, we're stuck in the middle of a political storm. National Farmers Federation Chief Executive Michael Garen says it's the country's growers paying the price. The government chose to make a unilateral change, not to advise us or anyone ahead of it, not to provide any explanation as to why, and not engage in any consultation. With farmers across the country saying they can't find workers to pet crops, he sent a team to Canberra to push for an urgent U-turn. Even have got sorted today, he would be a number of weeks before we start getting the flow of workers that we need today. It's not just food producers under the pump. Backpackers play a critical role at Brett Sargent's New South Wales Commercial Nursery, which supplies trees and green infrastructure to construction projects.

18:23We're trying to find alternatives to them, but we can't find them. So we are worried that we're going to lose 30% of our production. And he says that will impact the company's bottom line. It will cost us millions of dollars in revenue. The push to resume regular processing of backpacker visas comes a mere tense debate on migration being pushed along by one nation. The minor party has promised to slash the temporary migrant population by 750,000 people within three years, with a carve out for agricultural workers. The coalition has promised it will unveil its migration strategy imminently. In the meantime, Nationals leader Matt Cahnivan has thrown his support behind returning backpacker visa processing to normal levels. I don't believe our tourism industry or our seafood industries or other regional industries should be the innocent scapegoats of this government's inability to land and come to a migration policy.

19:26In a statement, a spokesperson for immigration minister Tony Burke has called on the opposition to work more constructively with the government on migration measures. Oliver Gordon reporting and that's AM for today. Thanks for your company. I'm Rachel Mealy. Hi, I'm Sam Hawley, host of the ABC News Daily podcast. There's another major threat to the world's oil supply. The Iran-backed hoothies in Yemen are moving to disrupt shipping through the Red Sea. Today former US special envoy to Yemen, Tim Lendaking explains the latest escalation and what it means for global oil supplies. Look for the ABC News Daily podcast on ABC News Daily podcast on ABC News Daily.