UK pledges to tackle empty home crisis - should we follow suit?

0:00Lunchtime Live with Andrea Gilligan on News Talk. Our empty, wronged-down and derelict buildings and I saw in your town, 1800453106, the number. Well, in the UK, the British Prime Minister there, Andy Burnham, has announced that they're going to clamp down on what they describe as absentee landlords and buildings that are lying vacant in a bid to try and just improve conditions and things for tenants and what they're going to do is they're going to give the local councils the power to actually step in and take over poor quality flats and houses if they aren't upgraded. So we're asking you, is this a measure that we too should try and follow suit? Dr. Frank O'Connor from derelict Ireland and foot art is with me here on the programme today. Is Andy Burnham, is this the right approach, Frank? Yeah, and it's good, good to chat again. Yeah, look, it's an existing approach.

1:01So in the UK, they already have this happening and what Andy Burnham is doing, he's kind of modifying it. So it's called an empty dwelling management order, it's called, which is very similar to what I think I spoke to you before about compulsory rentals. So basically compulsory rentals. So they're not actually going to take the properties off the people, but what they're going to do is if a property is empty for six months, they're going to make it easier for the council to go in and then use the property and rent it out to someone, you know. And that's like over seven year phase. So for example, if you're at an empty property in London, the council would go in, take the property off of us. We would still owe this, but they would then rent it out for at least a seven year period. So we would call it compulsory rent in Ireland. It's something we've been arguing for a while, myself, my partner, you, Cherry. That's something that exists already in Amsterdam and in Barcelona. But obviously, they are ambitious, what he said, trying to change from two years into the six months empty and to give the council the, I suppose, the power to do us.

2:01That's quite challenging. And when you look into the detail behind us, which I've been doing since you guys called earlier, there is a lot of exemptions. And I suppose it kind of reminds me a bit here when we bought an old vacant home pack, something that you'd now be able to campaign for. We bought in the vacant home packs a couple years ago in Ireland, but there was so many exemptions that they really made no impact. And I suppose that could be the issue here as well. I mean, it's just a big announcement into UK. I actually got it, I suppose, carry it through, you know. So what we've seen here over the campaign, as you know, I've spoken to you a few times Andrea, and the campaign is going for over six years now. We've seen a lot of policy changes happening as results in campaign, but we don't always see the implementation and enforcement. And again, I think you might remember to pass the chat about the derelection laws in Ireland that they've been around for 36 years, but they were never fully enforced and they were changing that at the moment as well here. So look, it's composed of your rental, like I said, it walks in Amsterdam, it walks in Barcelona, the UK already have us, but they also have other measures as well. So like we have a vacant home packs which has more here, they have a second home council

3:05tax. So if you have a second home, the UK, you can pay a much higher council tax, sometimes up to 400% of the council tax, if they want and force that. But I suppose the devil is always in the detail. And while we fall here, I suppose, you know, it's almost like you have to keep it on the agenda and you have to kind of ensure that whatever policies come in are enforced. So I think it's good for them that he's announcing that because they have a huge housing issue as well in the UK. I mean, they're saying that there's up to 300,000 homes in the UK that could fall under this new measure. So that's quite significant, but I suppose the devil will be in the detail. Will they bring it forward? No, we wouldn't. Yeah, no, it's going to bring in Alfonso Benilla is with us too, Frank, on the line. And Alfonso is the director of Marmaro Architects. Do we need to bring in new measures? Like we have the budget next week, Alfonso, do we need some kind of new initiative to clamp down on the number of derelict and lying idle businesses and properties across the

4:05country? Hi, Andrea. How are you doing? Thanks for the call. Good things. So I think there's an idea. I just read by Gumbass. Andy Burns, probably it's like with the empty homes and how that affects like the way that cities feel and look and everything else. And I think that that's a really good case for institutional properties that are in the private rental sector to have a minimum occupancy percentage of, you know, 99% year on year or face CPO. Because like, yeah, I think that there is a case to be made where, you know, the moment of landowner who has led the property run down like semi-deeds that they owned from 2000s can be purchased by the council and then rented out. But we know that that takes time. For example, the case of the properties on Conox Street and Fitzroy that took almost 12 years since they were put in the raise of their extroletres in 2009 to now. So that's two houses. Whereas if you look at institutional landlords who own thousands upon thousands of properties which they have property for fairly worth billions or trillions of euro, they don't care

5:10about paying extra tax. Their property forfills are still inflating in value. Whereas if we, if they risk losing their assets, you are definitely going to be seeing some downward pressure on rents because they're going to have to rent them or lose them. And in a way to try and address this, like some of the texts, Alfonso and this already listener tells me, I'm from Wichlow Town and two of the worst derelict buildings in the area are actually owned by the state. One is the courthouse, the other is the old post office. So the government wants to get their own house in order before going after everybody else. Yeah, I think we saw that with the example that I was mentioning there on Conox Street. By the time tenders come back from the private sector which is the construction, you have to go to the endering process. Cost of construction right now are incredibly high. So we have to say the reality that whether it's the council or the private rent or the private sector, whenever they go to build or refurbish any existing buildings, we are going to see costs that are extra, extra bitons.

6:10So, extra, extra bitons. So if we look at how to control those prices, a completely different conversation, but it does need to happen. So how do you control prices of construction? Private sector is one way, but you also have these ideas that have been floated about the state creating the skill set to do their own construction company. So if you were to have that other arm of the state to refurbish these houses, we wouldn't be facing the private sector to refurbish all these houses. But the issue of vacancy on the private rental sector of institutional property is enormous. This affects the population worldwide. Just when you say that, actually there's a text here from a listener in Calarney in a house on a station to say it's less than a five minute walk into the town. So it's an idea location for families close to schools, doctors and shops, and on our road along, there's under 30 houses, five of them are currently empty. They're not rented because of the new rental rule changes. And in addition to that, four other homes are used as holiday properties. They're so rarely used, maybe three to four weeks of the year.

7:12So we now have nine empty houses out of 30 on the streets. Prime location for families, no cars needed, walking distance to everything. And in the middle of a housing crisis. So I think we do need to see some kind of vacant property tax that is actually really going to impact people and force them to maybe consider their situation. Felgen Jose is a Green Party councillor in Dublin City Centre, in Dublin City Council fund, Felgen. What do we need to do more to address derelict buildings? I think the comparison with the UK is really interesting because it shows the level of powers that are available to local authorities in the UK compared to here. Local authorities in the UK are much, much more empowered to actually tackle these issues. In Ireland, we have a derelict site going back to 36 years. As Fyne said, it's very vague. The definition of dereliction in it basically says that if it detracts from the caravan area, it's derelict.

8:12But councils are having a lot of difficulty enforcing that. It doesn't take into account usage. It doesn't take into account the internal structure. So we need stronger powers for local authorities to actually tackle this. Simon Harris has been acting tough for the last couple of months saying local authorities aren't doing enough. And it's true. A lot of local authorities aren't doing enough and what they're doing isn't great. But they're also not empowered enough to do. More powers are not allowed. But it's a part of this, not the property owners themselves. If you're the landlord of a property that is completely empty, totally derelict, just sit there for two, three decades, Fyne. Nobody living in it. In a total disrepair, should the owners of those properties not be forced to do something with those buildings? Absolutely. That's why what Frank was talking about, compulsory rentals, but also compulsory sale. That's a power that local authorities do not have. Instead of trying to purchase it themselves and it takes years to do that, forcing the

9:15owner of a derelict or vacant property to sell it. If they're not using it, that's a power that local authorities do not have. I think we need those powers. But like you said, 20, 30 years vacant, but the value of those properties, the value of the holes that they've left vacant, will have doubled or tripled in that time. So it's worth it for them to leave it vacant. To leave the building that's in total disrepair to leave it in that state, Fyne. It's more profitable for a lot of these people to leave it like that than to do anything, because the chances of you being put on the dirty, flat, flat, straight, or so low, the chances of having to pay the vacant host tax, which is administered by revenue and Simon Harris is talking about revenue coming in and the chances of being fined out or so low, it's almost profitable for you to just leave it and then sell it in 10, 15, 20 years at a profit. The state needs their own construction crews.

10:17I think this is the only way they should build houses, fix properties, renovate properties as well that they could potentially seize, suggest this listener. And another text that tells us we're already doing this in Ireland, Council's claiming derelict properties. So it is actually happening. 087, 1400, 106 is the WhatsApp number. You can email us if you want to get in touch with us about that or anything we've been chatting about today. LaunchtimeLive with newsdog.com. For the moment, we leave it there that's Felgen Jose at Green Party Councilor in Dublin, Alfonso Bonilla from the Marmato Architects and Dr. Franco Conner of derelict Ireland from a Fudge Art as well. LaunchtimeLive with Andrea Gilligan. Weekdays at midday. On News Talk. Conversation that counts.