Typical Boro Chat with Craig McManus from MFC!

0:00Hello and welcome to a bonus typical Borough podcast. I'm your host Steve Dixon as always. International break is nearly through thank god and I thought you might all be craving some Borough chat moving forward to the Wolves game the 150th anniversary of Middlesbrough Football Club. To help me do that have alongside me Mr. Graham Bandira. You alright, bandie? Alright, good evening. Good evening. Yeah. Mr. Change. And he's back. The boys are reason. Mr. Simon Bloor. You alright, Simon? Yeah, good. Thank you. Nice to see you all. And we have a special guest Borough fans today. We have the head of supporters engagement at Middlesbrough Football Club. You'll see them all around the river side. You'll see them in the fan zone. He's a good looking fella as well. I'll have to see this as well. It's Mr. It's Mr. Craig Macmanis. Welcome to the podcast Craig.

1:00Oh thanks. Gentlemen, thanks for the big one. No problem, no problem. We've got lots to get through today. Obviously we've got the legacy game the talk about. We've got the Wolves game coming up. We've got stuff to discuss with Craig. But to start with Craig, I want to start with you because you've had an absolutely fascinating life. You've had a fascinating journey to Middlesbrough Football Club that I think a lot of Middlesbrough fans might not realise. I think Middlesbrough Football Club, speaking for myself, are very fortunate to have somebody, if you're on background, if you're a knowledge, if you're a stature, in the position at the football club, I think it's fantastic that we've got you at the football club. Just could you know if a Borough fans out there, could we just take you back to Edinburgh where you started off and just go through your journey to Middlesbrough Football Club? Yeah, of course. I think it's obvious that we're all off football, isn't it? And football becomes a fabricier life and I've been really fortunate since a young age that football

2:01has been the only concert in my life, if I'm really honest. And I played football at a decent level as a kid and managed to break through into professional game as a 17-year-old and played in Scotland. And professionally, and there's always that debate, if played football professionally in Scotland as professional football. But that's a lot. That's maybe for an awkward cast. But you know, but I've played for Hamamut for a number of years and then my life, unfortunately, gets to a point where sometimes you just don't make it. And I suppose your life and identity was all wrapped around being a footballer, a dreamset of my concert 15, I'd done all these various different things. And I suppose you think you're always going to be that. And over the number of years, my life took the various different turns. But football was, I said, I played normally at a high level and you know, done really well, fairly successful at playing football. But I'd always been kind of fighting a addiction battle. And unfortunately, that took me to my knees in my late

3:0230s. And I was homeless at that point. And homeless for over a year and living in St. Zeddenborough for a bit. And that was a bit of a wake-up call. It was one of the abominations like, how did this happen? And if I look back now, I've seen it as a progressive thing over a number of years where kind of alcohol and became a kind of real crutch for me during the number of different challenges I faced in my life, being it, lost my parents or you know, break down our relationships or whatever I might have been in. But football was always there. And I got engaged with a football organisation charity called St. Zeddenborough and Nedden Brown. You know, just started to get back in it and play in a bit of football and think a bit more about myself. And I was really kind of fighting kind of chat I get sober and, you know, I was homeless at this point living in a hostel with our food banks, you know, and we had my life had been to where it was at that point. It was, it was kind of, you know, a really dramatic kind of, you know, void. But I just stuck

4:03in and, you know, and I really wanted to be sober, but I just didn't know how to do it, you know, and, you know, and it was some good people around about me, really helped me out. And you know, as I said, went to street soccer and getting rehab got myself sober, you know, and when I was in rehab, they spoke to me about this thing called the Homeless World Cup. And, you know, and this is a, I think I never heard about, you know, but there was Scotland trials when I came out and, you know, and I said this before with many people that the Homeless World Cup this year's in Mexico City. It's been in Rio, it's been in Melbourne. And I remember asking I said, you know, where's where is it? And they went, Glasgow, and I was lost. So I was Glasgow in the middle of the gym and I was like, right, brilliant. So, but I worked really, really hard and it gave me a focus, you know, so I came out of rehab sober, gave me a real focus. I was training, working hard, looking after myself, gave me a real purpose and I was really fortunate to get through the trials and in captain, my country, age of 40 and jog, middle of a job square in Edinburgh and Glasgow

5:07and I was really proud moment, you know, for years. You know, I'm from Glasgow originally, but I ran away Edinburgh as people do that, you know, experience what, experience. And then, you know, and it was a really proud moment when my family and the stands and, you know, kind of making sure that, you know, I'd played for my country, you know, in the last game we played England and, you know, we beat them five four and it was a really important moment because I remember standing as we went on to the crowd was singing sweet Caroline and we were all lined up and I just knew at that point my life was never going to be there it was, it was going to change, but it was only going to change if I kept good people in my life or I'd done good things or had a purpose and I just evolved from that and I took a bit of a brave turn and moved to London after that and, you know, got involved with various different football foundations, Arsenal, Chelsea, Foulham and started to work in there and build my experience and with that, and then the following year I got a phone call asking if I'd been involved in ventracing involving the homeless world cup team, but this time

6:09it was for England. So I started coaching in England, the homeless world cup team in Oslo the following year and now ten years later I'm still managing that team in this year where going to Mexico City and, you know, to play, you know, in that tournament where hopefully I can give a bit back and show my experience with the players there and kind of guide them through that journey and hopefully bear a kind of, we call that a safety trap, a safety trampoline, not a safety net so because people will bounce in and out of what we do so well we'll be giving them that safe space and to allow them to evolve and find their space, you know, but, yeah, so over the last ten years can it evolve to football various different things and I came to my dues breath three years ago, it's actually just over three years and it's quite bizarre because I never thought I'd end up in butter for any reason, you know, I came here many, many years ago, what should butter man United game and I love the experience but I just never, you never think you end up living somewhere different like here and I came and as I saw a role

7:12for the deputy head of the foundation, I came in that and at the foundation and I was quickly head of the foundation and then last year, little 40 months ago I had a conversation with the football club and they asked me to come across and look at this new role, it's had a support engagement which you know, kind of looking at consultation with fans but I'm, importantly, keeping the kind of connection with the supporters so I feel really blessed and privileged, I'm really honest, I represent the fan group and you know, be a voice within the club and in burrs now my home and I don't say this flippantly like I was a nomad that's been years all over the place, you know, never have in fixed roots, always been scared to fix roots and the way the people of Barra have woken me and I think this is my home and I feel really, really connected to the place and you know, really connected to the fans and I love the football club and even my niece now she lives in the air shun command, she goes to bed, we're all day every night and this is the first but whenever this goes, come through and I start, my family are first to come in

8:12and my brothers in Turkey just now and he's made a fan call draw but he's been it going out every night with a barrestripe on and you know and it's just like it means the world to my family that that I'm here so therefore it means the world to me that you know the people have woken me so I'm I feel really privileged to to be part of this football club. Craig when you when you're managing the England home as team as well it must give the players that you're managing, you know, great great comfort to be able to talk to you about all things in life because you've been there said it's seen in the tunnel you've you've managed you know England you've played for Scotland you you've said you've been homeless yourself so you must be somebody that the players really really look up to. I think it's like you know what I see what I try to articulate with the players and the staff team is like we're all on a level you know we have an adult we have an adult relationship because I think when you're in that predicament sometimes you're always you're always working with services and they're always asking you loads and truths of questions and the you know and they want to help you obviously but it could be quite a truth of place and a quite an open place

9:17where you know you've got to constantly reveal what's going on for you so we try and create that space but the way I look at it is the places the people in things might be different with the players so they might come from different parts of England they might not let you know they don't speak the same you know kind of glass region tone that I've got but but what we've definitely got is we understand the thoughts feelings and behaviors so we can connect on that side of it and it's just about how we can navigate them and through this experience so that they absolutely get the best from it and it's a springboard for their life because I say this many times some of the people that we work with you talk about second chances some of them have never the first chance you know in life and that's what we want to provide with them so you'll go to Mexico City they'll represent their country they'll stand at the national anthem for the first game in the last game two years ago we got to the final get beat by the Metzko last year we got to the quarter finals in beat with Portugal so I'll get I'm quite ambitious about what we've got this year and we've

10:21got two lads for butter in the team which I'm really proud of that we managed to take this experience that was always based in London and we've brought it to the northeast and then and we had trials recently at the New Southland Centre you know for the foundation have and we'd over a hundred players there and we'll now select a squad of twelve which we'll bring down to a squad of eight two are from Borough once for Newcastle once for Liverpool and so it's good to get that north representation which we've always predominantly a London based team so really getting the two lads who butter the best players by far I'm all too seen yeah and I'm really keen to get them and it's a bit of a journey because there's a lot of pressure for them to turn up to training we travel to London tomorrow morning for example the lads have got a bucket seven o'clock they've got to be down in London they'll spend the full day in London and this is all part of the process with them so we want to create that as I said environment where listen we don't want perfection

11:21in the way of progress for them you know we want to make sure that they absolutely understand that where they support them and if it might not always go right for them because they've not always had that in life there's always people giving them a kind of black and white scenario and so we'll create that with them and that's the journey for the for the next number of months before we have to select in early November and that's going to be a difficult job but that's what we need to do and and then we'll get prepped for flying out in January incredible what when is what the winds are tournament Craig so it's July the sorry July it's in January the 15th we fly out to Mexico and it's in very much being in Mexico City since the carlo so it's just one of the James Bond films years ago was in the center and it was like it was the that kind of ceremony they've done you know in there it's there so it's like there'll be three different pitches in there and one of the pitches will probably hold about three thousand one will be two thousand one will be one thousand because we are one of the seeded teams we'll be playing a pitch one mostly so by three thousand up to three

12:24thousand fans watching this each game so you know near the time you know we'll make sure that people are aware how to get behind us and in the following but I feel really positive about this squad there's some kind of brewing about them and they've really connected really quickly and so who knows what can happen but we'll go there because yeah we've been wanting one but the tournaments more than just going and winning you know it's like creating a brotherhood creating an environment where like-minded people always say this with the homeless world cup you could take it to the darkest place in the world that will shine a light on it you know it's just full of energy and I think that you know if it's the south Africans or the Brazilians or the English like we just all bring something different but one fundamentally we've all been through that either homelessness or addiction or prison or whatever it might be and it's taken us to other place we have and so it's just that wonderful way of kicking a ball and celebrating that together. Well good luck Craig that's what we're going to bring the trophy back when you're in Mexico you can be the James Bond

13:28you can be the Sean Conry and there you go. So in typical Borough fashion on this podcast we'll take it from that fantastic wonderful story which I'm sure the Borough fans have enjoyed here and we're going to bring you back to head of support as engagement and we'll get the the bad stuff out the way of first Craig because as much as middle-spray football club at the minute has been in you know in the press doing everything absolutely perfectly right everything's on the up the teams doing well you know the legacy game stadiums full lots to be proud of in middle-spray bit of a fiasco with a shirt Craig no we've had lots of middle-spray fans talking about the shirts the home-no-wear kits this season you know Con get them sold out a bit of an issue there the fourth kit the 150th anniversary blue kit an idea to bring out 188 1876 of course for the club obviously not not enough shirts and then that you've got also we've got we've heard supporters in

14:33now with the legacy shirts out that six shirts we've had out before October that's a lot of expense for fans if you've had over 200 pounds if you want to buy whole six shirts bloody bloody block just I know the club with the fans their panel have been talking about this and trying to come to solutions and looking how the football club can learn and make things better moving forward so just from a club point of view Craig what was your take on it and what's the football club going to do moving forward in the next season and beyond yeah no problem listen that we've come out last week and we've put we've said we've made a mistake you know and I think we've misread this and you know I'm not going to hide away from that you know and the three core themes that have come out from the communication and consultation over the last couple of weeks is one way we didn't order enough kit but that's reflected with the whole man away kit as well and I'll come back to that point secondly the system wasn't working perfectly you know and there's a lot of glitches and you know people were getting kicked out and various different things were known

15:34in the basket you know and I think three there was a big shout for people who feel that as either gold a long term season ticket holders they should have some level of priority so that distilling all that down and three things is where we are and I think that we need to you know as I said we've been openly and put our hands up and said we made the mistake you know you mentioned it you know we're very conscious that we three kits out this year and put the fourth kit out you know was something that we you know we're we're concerned about you know we wanted to make it exclusive and limited and but we misread that and we put the 1876 out and and you know I think that reflected with the price point is that you know we could have put that up 100 pounds 150 but we decided to bring it down because we did have these kits out and you know we did want to you know continuously look as if we're asking for more and more money but they got it wrong right that's it you know and I think what we need to do is really look forward now in a bit of a consultation with the some of the fan base last week I've met numerous

16:36some amount of fans because some apart of my role was just to say listen commitment that ever side lights for a cup of tea and talk about it let me understand because once you cut through that social media kind of nonsense I'm gonna I'm gonna be really honest about it I don't think social media reflects how our fans actually feel but they feel winded by and if you'll up by and if you like down by it so my role is come in let's talk about it and you know and I think when you know I'll give you an example we've had to put our order in for 2728 this last week so we're always guessing a year ahead so when things go out of stock it's not that we can just phone custodian ask them to phone it takes 78 months for that to happen I think fans don't always understand that and but I think you know I don't want to get too deep into numbers but you know we we ordered 40% more kit this year you know across the the kits and we thought that was satisfying demand but unfortunately it's not we misread it we've admitted that moving forward we're going to be looking at a number of different schemes particularly pre-order and one of the roles that

17:38the clubs asked me to do is go and speak to fans and say you know understanding that we have the order in September the year before how does that look if you've got a kit that's a not even designed fully yet you know it's we've got the 95% of a design but there could be changes you know there's such a long lead time you know all these kind of key things so I think we've got a bit of time to you know I'll add it to get out there and speak to as many people as possible I think with the system you know issues I know absolutely 100% must be into the provider and looking at what we need to do to either upgrade that system or improve that system because you know if it didn't work you know with the volume and that seems to be a common issue that's happened and then thirdly I think I'd like to maybe understand more about the you know gold the passion but gold season ticket holders and long season ticket holders that feel about being rewarded for that loyalty you know and and I think that that's a discussion but we don't I don't have an answer for that today that's a bit of a work that needs done but really three areas that

18:42I feel strongly that that we need to consult on but more importantly at tone if I'm sitting here next year and having this conversation with you then I'm a gore that I'll be going right you know and because Abe of not listening and be you know that you know I've this is this is not being authentic what I'm saying and the fans won't buy that here I've learned that about my timing but are you need to be authentic in genuine and people understand that when you're honest and truthful with them but you've got to be authentic so I'll wait sit here today and say the other three things we're looking at and that's the two things we're looking to change TTI going to consideration that we could be a Premier League club next season as well Craig absolutely absolutely these things are on the table and it's because that's you know one of the challenges we had it is that this season we're doing was like we had our gambling sponsor and if we got promoted that with a head to you know being removed so we're thinking what do we do you know how do we order that and that might be an impact and this is what I need to articulate for next year is that if we are still in the process of not understanding what league we're going to be and it impacts

19:45on commercially be it's bonds or be whatever so that delays everything when it comes to printing and all these kind of things so I think communication is something it's going to something we've considered and spoke about internally we are I believe we've got a wonderful crumbs team who you've probably I think our social media outputs have been better I think our articulation of stories are better you know but I think there's a you know based on what's happened some of the feedback we had recently from the the FAN of IZ panel will speak about later and was that they want clear more deep explanation and a lot of people cited the season ticket increased price increase last year where there was really clear articulation on why we were passing I thought that that cost on to the fan base based on increasing rates increasing policing increasing electricity utilities national one and wage increases so once we articulated that with the fans and they responded and they didn't like it there's some of fan base didn't like it but it's a lot of the fan base understood it and from a running businesses are being professionals

20:47are running a household on their own they understood that things had changed so so I think it's being visual communicating better and and that I want to be that my role in the club is to be that visual person it does that and that's why I'm here you know when I had the conversation in the U.L. about coming across the foundation that was one of the clear remits to be visible and and that's why you see me in the fan zone that's why you see me in the 12th man bar that's why you see me and around the stadium I don't sit in an office in match day and but that's the there's open welcome conversation that to your people are on tonight that just pick up the phone or drop any email and we'll absolutely make time to hear what you've got to say because we need to get this because we need to get it right we need to get this right I think if you just printed bin bags creating a put the new burral logo on this year you're to sold them as well so the new badges that go just save some money get the bin bags out the fans will buy them anyway save some money yeah exactly that's the deal I just wanted I think it's true bandana it's like you know

21:48we do not take our fans loyalty or expense you know they might have for granted we don't we don't but we just I think we just we were we were too reserved in in in our output here and I think that we've absolutely paid the price for it the last couple of weeks but I appreciate fans and genuine honesty with us I think the general trend with with bullet fans is to mourn first then act later and when I say act they generally go out and buy the kits so you know you're talking about numbers trying to predict you know what what you're going to sell I think you'll always get high numbers with bullish shirts now it's almost part of the uniform a regalia for the game people want the shirt irrespective of how it looks generally I would say say say when I just bring you and I think what's important is though like what Craig saying is the club of learnt from the mistake in moving forward obviously middle is bruff our next season are hopefully going to be in a better place yeah absolutely I think as you say I think the communication listening to the fans and you know Craig is so visible on

22:51match day and Craig yes imagine you're going to get lots of emails when this podcast goes live I don't know yeah yeah but that's great but I think yeah I think the the thing I've learned this season whether it is social media that there is a foam of not getting the shirt that there maybe wasn't five six I think the the clamor for having a shirt now particularly this year I think the numbers will only go up and you know maybe at times we underestimate how big our fan base is and I think we'll move on to yesterday in a moment I'm sure but it feels like it's one of the best times ever to support a middle from a fan base perspective we've got a very loyal passionate fan base and getting a kit is almost a given of the thing that you might want to do if you're a fan so yeah as you say Craig you've mentioned a number of things they're going to do it's it'd be nice to be well maybe invite you on in a year's sound Craig and we'll see where we're at then I'll be wonderful well my experience with football club as we do you know we'll lay on

23:53them we'll try to be the positive changes and but the talk's cheap hasn't it let's do yeah yeah definitely I think that the minute middle you know supporting the borough I can't remember time support middle is growing the fan base has been as good as this especially in the second tier Craig and I'm a bit of a stat though and I just looked like the last four seasons 26,000 26,000 905 25,000 416 last season 27,230 in this season were higher again in obviously we've sold out for wolves we're sold out the legacy game in middle is present 150 year history we've never had a spell like that in success successive seasons if the crowds being at that level we've had the little peak time on my head the little fellow genie and your own stuff in the Premier League he has where they were high but other than that at the moment middle is breath attendance is back to back or as high as ever being and they're being the championship and the to not cheap as we know which will get into in a minute we're prices I think the support now like Simon was saying it's just going to go up and

25:00you know the the revenue the shirt sales is just going to follow on yeah I think the evidence I think what struck me here when I first came here was the depth of the passion and what I love about boroughs like how it's a generational it is you know so it's like from granny grandpa right through you know the babies and every day in between every these are borough fan you know and I think that's really important to acknowledge yeah I think the club should take some credit also and I think that when we get things right and I think you know there's been a lot of things we've got right over the last you know particularly year and a half and be it from investment and head count within the business you know bringing people at myself and or you know like there's other parts of the business we will be invested in you know I think that doesn't always get seen you know by the scenes I think you know even from you know the the the high level consultation that we've had you know bringing a fan of a japan one you know looking at each part of the mechanism within

26:00the stand but fundamentally as a football team I'm passionate about we're more than a club and I believe from a community aspect you know football brings a lot more and just what happens on the grass but I think fundamentally you know that there's been investment on the pitch and sorry and there's an excitement we can't be in the manager he was with us last week at the Middestby Disable Supports Association and even that you know coming along and investing his time and you know being part of that shows what a what sort of leader he is and therefore I think the fans have really bought into that and I think there's a belief that we're going places and I believe in that that's also internally you know we believe that there's a really bright future for us but listen as I said I'll never take the fans for granted and you know putting hands in a pocket left frank saying I'll not go any way games and it's always the similar faces who you're thinking how did they manage to do this? Hey how did they you know how did they get time off work you know but they're kitted in all the gear and you know that the you know sons daughters mum's dads the whole

27:00law and you know and I see they so it's a very passionate fan base but I think it's that's where you know we need to do it but you know and that's the consultation and do that but I think six eight times doesn't that you know and I think yesterday was a classic example of what this club means to people. Banda you were impressed lately with the card of ticket pricing you're super cool really? We're we're pricing I don't think that is the way over 65s 17 pound under 18s 12 pound and that was done with the fans panel that we don't know a lot about but you were really impressed with that? I thought it I thought it was ingenious really I think that's the way forward for the future of the game not necessarily our league every other league as well reciprocal pricing it's got to be it's got to be looked at more closely because it benefits benefits both teams really and throughout the course of the season and if you can keep it as as low as possible then you know more the merrier really I'm sure that the cut in in price will be

28:03made up in terms of what fans will buy in terms of refreshments and things so I think there's a good balance there so yeah we've got to keep keep pursuing that one but I think 30 pounds probably a fair a fair cap in in modern society the current economy I think I mean you say 20s plenty but every month now things think it'd be going up but 30 seems probably at a decent level that I would say. Same in your your final this as well yeah? Yeah absolutely I think I've hoped this is just the first step really I think there's a there's a lot of discussion isn't and Craig can probably add more to this around I think the Premier League have a price cap for away fans that's something that I think all the clubs agree to I think there's a clamor now for EFL to maybe join that and that's going to mean work from supporters groups it's going to mean work from the clubs but I think from my perspective as Craig just mentioned that the the the challenge you've going to an away ground the cost is anything we could do to help those fans and vice

29:06first you know coming to Middlesbrough is a long trek particularly I'm sure that was in mind with the Cardiff fans it's a long trek up to Borough the best games I go to at the Riverside when the away end packed I love the fact that the away ends packed it creates a better atmosphere our fans rise to it I think when the away ends fall like you know I remember a couple of seasons ago pressing away it was their gently day we hammered them for nila or for one I seem to remember but the atmosphere was brilliant they're fans are incredible and and for me coming back to some of Craig's points earlier I love winning and losing but football is it today out is something we have friends it's an enjoyment it's an event it's where you meet a we are mates and when there's a good atmosphere which I think a good away support bring so I think for many reasons it's it's definitely a move in the right direction and as I mentioned Craig can probably add a little bit more about potentially where this could all go next Craig I was just going to say I know that in the Premier League we've got the price cup but I know it's easy and the Premier League to do it because of the finances and the Premier League it's easier for them to cup because ticket price than the Premier League

30:08is nowhere near is important as it is in the championship how close do you think we are in the championship of actually achieving a price cup like the Premier League well I think I think a bit off if I'm honest there's still a bit to go on that for a kind of universal focus and I think you know different clubs will carry different challenges and you know on the reason why my understanding of the the price cap came in the Premier League was because of some extortionate prices from from different clubs and and it was the fan the fan support of association what the FSA that got together with support of groups and lobbying campaigned and brought that in and I know there's a number of different support groups that we are working with across the football club are a connection and in discussions with FSA so that's the fan support of association they are there they're like a non you know government body but they're they're representing the fans there's no they're independent to any football club or any government body and they do a

31:09wonderful job of representing fans across the country so they are working with a number of supporters groups and a number of clubs to understand what this cap would look like and the simple co-pricing came you know around a contact with Cardiff and we wanted to make we wanted to give back a little bit to what the supporters that you know travel away to you know different grounds across the country so we were really interested in finding them that out I'm going to be really honest there was also a concern what does that mean for supporters that make up your ground and paying X where someone's sitting maybe two blocks away they're paying 22 quid you know and comparison it's on there so that's I can say and that's something that we wanted to speak to the panel about but more important I think we've got a bit of work to do on that because how do you feel if you're walking up to the other side knowing that someone's sitting two blocks away from you paying more money paying less money sorry and though if there's a typical kind of benefit as your way fans so you've been I think the best in the country by your country my want they you know and you know and that's that okay okay that's a biased perspective but you know my view

32:15on it is that they're the best there and you know and being in numerous grounds over the years watching multiple games but there's something uniquely brewing about the bar of fans and I've been really fortunate to travel down this couple of few supporters but she's beating 12 man up be it Liam McAdles passing and it's just a brilliant day out I love it you know and and you know and it's difficult to keep your professional hat or another thing no get too involved in it but it's like you know and I met you got me you guys in London you know and you know after the full-on game and I was you know that sort of opportunity sitting up above after it and due to the fat about the game I just this is uniquely brewing so I believe football is about experiences you know and what football gives is this ununique sense of belonging trusted relationships and all these various different things that come out of that that's what away days give you you know and it's been every a way they have been to be a a lot of kids you know all the way to the current days that's what it gives you is one lose a draw Simon said you know it's something brewing and when I came back for the full-on game I was sitting on the train I was heading back home

33:18and the bus the train was singing you know nonstop we bought our fans for York and it was just like everyone just what as I said we didn't we didn't win that day but that wasn't important at 10 a clock at night it was about you know what what it meant to travel together what it meant to be connected and and I think that that so if we can give our fans an opportunity to do that great I think well I think there's a better way to be done with garden price caps but the people who need to who can make that change are supporters and and I'd be really keen to have at least pull that conversation with them so right let's get into the legacy game I mean 33000 packed the Riverside yesterday absolutely fantastic it really was a really emotional day um plenty goals Eramus 8 Ionopoulos 7 Miguel Bechatry come at Rickard Musi Carriol, Janineo penalty and decamble more than Mnez put to the sword and inspired Scott McDonald's Ionopoulos great scenes

34:24at the Riverside yesterday same and I see you knew the game we were both met at half-tay were both a bit emotional aren't we yeah I thought it was that's always incredible that took my little boy along um who I'm being honest being to two or three borough games he's just turned eight and he'll say it was his favorite ever borough game um I did say it was Fabio's best ever borough game as well um just to add to that um and one of the two others by the way and one of two others will will Michael back be available in January um I did say that yeah it was but it but yeah I just um as you said I think um you know we've talked about a couple of negatives with a club I sought from arriving at the fan zone you know the fan zone was buzzing um what Craig just happened to bump in it wasn't the fan zone where you know we ended up meeting a builder who'd fitted the airs and park gates it moves them from airs and park to the Riverside it was like this amazing story of like wow going back to Craig's point earlier of borough community and

35:28everyone knowing so you know the the buzz outside the ground um and then yeah the way the players were introduced onto the pitch you know we it was almost like a quiz I was with someone I'm like I think a team I think a team I think you know guessing who they were because some some dera say it a aged well and some a aged not so well it has to be said um so that part of it was brilliant yes the football wasn't the best but yeah I loved it as you can probably tell and I think you know for me the opportunity to just see Jeanineo one last time on a pitch was yeah I was an opportunity I wasn't going to turn down and you know I've got my Jeanineo shirt behind me I talked to my little boy about him so it was a really valuable history lesson as well it felt like yesterday is a dad so yeah I love there's a problem you know you're not there as well yeah it was a real emotional day I went not so much for the football I wasn't expecting nothing on the pitch but just to see some of the legends of the past and you know give them that applause and it was emotion low ball

36:29what I didn't expect to get so emotional and when the players were coming on in different ones from the pass pole Wilkinson who I used to love and different ones come on and I could feel the emotions build no and then whoever designed the walk on in order of what they're doing needs around of applause because for me to have Tony Mobri back to back with Aitau Carranca Leo coming on banging his chest that just about had his going the glasses were off the tears were down the cheeks and then Jeanineo comes out I mean I mean that was just it was just too much you have done that well played because to have them back the back was just it was just incredible and you know even at half time again you know you had the the next the older generation of players coming on from the 70s and eighties and different one it was just a real emotional day and you could you could feel it like in the stadium it was like you could feel it there was an emotion in the stadium all afternoon I mean Craig you must have been absolutely super proud of the football club because I thought there was a real real special day I agree like again I think there's that big mention

37:29to the the events team Liam and the Robin and you know and all the team there who who did put this together you know unbelievable job and about what I speak into them last night about it and saying like they were so humble about it you know they're like oh but everyone there's a team job and what other else and for the A2 with the absolute drivers behind it and I think you know the and that's where I hope you don't mind me saying what I'm going to say next but that's why I get so passionate about this football club because I know the people that work here and I know how they work and what it means to them to work for the fans or the club it means a world to them we've got people here that are you know 30 year plus whatever else and they just love the football club so to see that come off yesterday particularly for that team was after the we let's be honest we did a difficult week before that to see that come off for them I was just so proud you know and to see that and as if someday just loves football I was the same I was shocked you know and you're having really fortunate to meet people at Lenny Lawrence and Tony Moebury and you know I

38:34spent a lot of time you know I was saintly band day I will you know I admit the players for the 60s and 70s they go to sports village every week and have a cut a teen I became a really band of brothers and I managed to get involved and have a chat with them I'm invited them up here once a month and they have breakfast in the boardroom and it's just I sit with them and just have the best of the couple hours of my life you know just chatting with the ball and they educate me on it and you know what happened here and Bobby Mulderke is a close family friend of yours and I was a play football we barely Mulderke and you know my dad went to the pubby Bobby you know most dents and you know so like to listen to the stories when Bobby played and you know I much you mean so much does as a family you know all that kind of connected stuff and so just yesterday was just all that wrapped into just positive emotion and you know I really loved the little one shout genius name like they never seen on play they never seen it you know but obviously they've been educated by their parents or their grand parents whether it was they say he's one he was

39:35he's you know us is this guy's unique and it was just amazing to see the kids those kids and teals get not a good ass for a woman it was just beautiful and I think that that's what encapsulates football wasn't it together missing connection and sense of belonging and we've got that in abundance yeah great helping a job wasn't actually for the football club to track down some of these players I mean that they're probably missed out on loads as well who they tried for as well how difficult the job was tracking down some of these players yeah and I think we've got to recognise you know calling Galway in that process you know and stuff that you know calling it what's really hard over the years and and and rest me resting peace and you know and I know a lot of the football people in the football club and beyond I've been you know I've been really moved by you know he's passing and you know we send a lofty's family and you know but he was instrumental in putting these legacy numbers together and so he was a he's a kind of catalyst to this year you know of of logging all the players right for number one and and people have been in the new tunnel well no there's no legacy wall and these players are all logged in the legacy walling so I think

40:39there was a lot of hard work and I think there was a lot of late nights and you know tracking people from all over the world and doing all these sort of things was was something that the team I don't honestly don't know how Liam and Robin and the team done it they was like phenomenal job but they just worked really really hard because they knew because I remember the conversations a few months ago it was like do we get a legacy team in the plays like maybe another team another club or whatever and they felt really strongly they wanted to have two teams for the bar of players are lightly legends and and it just worked a pitch for them really I'm really pleased for them last night he said them because they were exhausted but that's how it happened but I know they'd have you you know you because you different time zones you different people getting flights different passports try to get them connected where they're going to get you know how we get them off the plane how we get them here in the next days the level of work that they get involved was was phenomenal and they should be the events team in particular as we're really proud of themselves and I just ripples through the football club and I think today the buzzer at a ground place has been really special and they're just builds up to have a really exciting week we've

41:42got coming up yeah well you just touch that there Craig and it's going to be a brilliant week coming up because of the say it's the wolves game coming up 150th anniversary big big club coming to town doing well good team just come down from the premiership bandy that's something to look for too unsaturday isn't it huge game this should set us back on track as it's been too long since we've had a competitive game but yeah it'll be it'll be a line's den type game will up and I just thought we we've got enough players to it and try and get our best 11 out and have a right good gourd them because that'll be a cauldron of noise as we've seen we're comfortably selling out now and we've got to make it as tough as we can for wolves it's a little bit of a shame that Edwards isn't there anymore because that would have added a little bit more spice to it but it's predominantly still the same team so we've got to go out and do a job so if you want to talk about it tactically then you know I just thought we can get our best players out I'm just going to

42:44touch on something earlier Craig you know what you mentioned about sort of the shirt sales and stuff and absolutely overwhelmed by this American well trea that are currently playing we've also got another American player in roxtas pukestas but we've got Maurice we've got Bihalta and Max and Max Arstin yeah sorry I was just a just a miffon is there any way where we can embrace that that uniqueness of having three American players in our team because for me it's having that is formidable it reminds me of when we had the three Brazilians you know years gone by and Emerson over here Janineo and Emerson's cousin even made an appearance or two Fabio Branko arrived so we've managed to sort of embrace the community again with another country in terms of shirt sales is there a possibility where we can possibly do a tie in with supporters clubs or over in the states namely Columbus Crow because they're certainly very popular and if you go on social media there's a there's a there's a clamor now for middles of a football club

43:48from us based supporters particularly with Bihalta playing so well you know in the United States midfield we've seen glowing reports from Mauricio or Pocetino regarding Bihalta so is that something we can we can milk a little bit and embrace I believe but on it yeah I think it's you know I thought you would be I just in what capacity I think I think you know I think you know there's I think when you look at supporters and fans you know what you don't you always don't want to look at outputs so it's not about shirt sales and you know just okay that's that the shirt sales are a byproduct of the engagement and you know the the sense of connection that's important so what I know the team I've been working you know really hard on is particularly marketing teaming and a few others is looking at what is the commercial opportunity first and foremost but secondly you know how do we build this bond you know so there was you know a number of different things we've done over the last number of weeks well when we're playing in the league was you know a couple of watch alongs in Columbus and because that's where you said it you know you

44:51said it through you know loyalty and connection and emotion you know then then you build logic in it you know and I think that's where you know commercially we'll do that but watch this base there's going to be a lot of things happening where we've got a number of North American may support us so we've got about enough supporters group in North America and Jeff might correct me after this podcast when he when he listens to it but you know we've got around 300 plus over the last number and within that North North North America supporters group that's that'll double you know over the next couple of months based on the work that we're going to be doing and I know there's at least I think there's at least 15 people coming across from North America for Saturday so we're thinking how we celebrate that and build that connection so it's like anything else you know I think you we want to create transformative relationship trans-transactional relationship so we just don't want to make it about shut sales or you know like Bimbara TV you know we want to make it a collective so that

45:52there's power in that group and and that's where I play a part in that was listening and consulting and and understanding what they want so that if I membership packages what they want and they work become members and we can look at what that looks like if that will prove is because you know with football just now you know yes about you know there's a big demand on football teams commercially you know for income so they can compete you know and at the top level if you want the best players need to pay the best wages if you want the best players in any of the best facilities you know all these sort of things come into play so how do we do that is is make sure that we're commercially savvy so we're on it and just watch this space is what I'd say I just think the time is good at the moment because the US game is growing year on year it's becoming quite quite big out there now 10 years ago you probably wouldn't have you wouldn't have said that you could probably only name a handful of players now you look at the US players in the in the Premier League and the championship and they're everywhere so I think that's good for us yeah I think middle's

46:53brother mr. tricking years gone by on things like that Craig and I think it's good to hear what you're saying there that middle's brought on it the understand is the potential the opportunity that's in front of them like like Graham says you know we've got three US eight nationals is Riley McGree who played in the US you know he got Edilson Melanda who were both from the US and not only that in Pucksdarsson not only that it's like you know if middle's brodo get at the Premier League and stuff it's how big can middle's bro be in the US you know and not only that a trucking other USA in the nationals potentially the company middle's brand the future as well to get that name out there middle's rough up all club on the global scale like that in America you know would have been unheard of a few years ago but now I think middle's brodo have that real opportunity absolutely absolutely do I think and it's based on you know players but I think you know because if you look at Asia and you know we'll get 15 countries there part of the Asia supporters group then we've got you know we want to build you know there's hundreds and hundreds of members in that you know for Pataya right through to Dubai and in every else Vietnam and all

47:54the groups are in there so there's energy of in the foreign lands for the butter right so what I'm trying to do is just understand what that means what does that mean now what do you why do you want to be connected what is that is that family is that ex-parts is that is that just because we're a bit you know I will not you know one of the what some people would quote is the bigger teams in the Premier League you know and we're a bit different and we offer something more personal so there's loads that I've used to investigate but listen we've been ridiculous is not to investigate it and try and impact on it with it you know and it would be you know so we're investigating that but yeah as I said does does a lot going on but I am you'll see things coming out over the next and what couple months as a as a purist I also think they're absolutely quality footballers as well you know we're a much better team if that trio is planning our team and the longer we can keep them playing together I think that'll benefit us massively yeah same in upbringing yeah I was just going to say what the really needs a podcast to go on tour I think I'm not sure I can think of anyone

48:57but yeah yeah podcast I don't know the Americans would understand it certainly Jordy I'm sorry for you guys there that's good it's like guys you got some in a Jordy and too loud some harrogate yeah that's going to work well isn't it right let's let's talk some football guys for finish up because I said we've got this huge game uh create I'll come to you on a discussion that we have regularly on this podcast and it's is a time for middle's brunnau and Kim hellberg to just settle on his best 11 bar and injuries bar and suspensions picky start 11 settle to his formation in have a run of games like that and is a time to ditch the Adilson-Malanda project of Izzya midfielder is your centre back in just stick him in the back for alongside Phillips in stick morris alongside be halt out with see a railing me gree in just play a best 11 is it time for that to happen now kreger are you a fan of you know the change of team change

49:58your formation week the week that Kim tends to do so I'm speaking as a fan not as an employee now right that's all I'm gonna say I think I think I think listening I love listening to Kim you know the intelligence and you know he's always considering options he's such a curious manager and you know and I think that's why we love him so much and I think that you know I heard them speak last week about how he's so open minded about where he's going to play and what he does is he picks players based on traits and attributes you know not just always on selection formation or what the other team can do and you know we've heard them and bar on the road and other things talking about all these key things you know I think from playing football myself sometimes relationships are really key and you know Jews and partnerships are really key and and I think that you know but these these lads you know are very intelligent footballers and they from a football IQ perspective I think

51:01that they get it and they can all adapt and even going back to Michael I always watched how he was quite fluid in his formations and it wasn't about always you know positions it was more about what the matchday's what the match scenario is and where the ball sits on the pitch and you know I think Michael's you know and Kim brings a bit of that in but I think you know it'd be nice to see you know such a huge squad such great talented players but consistency is important in the game so we'll see what Kim brings but you know he's far more qualified than me to come in on that but I would just for me I think you know I'm sensing the fans are you know what you mentioned you know about that you know is that they want to see about balance. Simon you want a bit of balance on on Saturday? Yeah I think you named it I think it's always the first game after an international break again as Bahar Leplett Bahar Halter played a lot of football how is he going to be ready to start I think you know I imagine the fitness guys are going to be key in the next few days because they

52:02look at data more than ever don't they the mouths have traveled but I think you know you main point Dicco is I definitely think with this next sort of run of games particularly the two center backs for me I'd like to see you know the two American guys that you mentioned sent him in field I think he's mentioned quite a lot we have plays that were maybe quite ready at the start of the season some he mentioned didn't quite have a preseason that he was expecting I believed a probably train very hard last week and probably doing the same again this week to be in a position where maybe that team can be a bit more consistent so yeah I think I go back to to what Craig said I trust him but I'd like to see though sent about partnership be Melander and Philips I believe Melander is a better sent about than he is a midfield that I can totally understand we've said it on the pod why he does it but for me I'd put him back into the bat for I think the full bat right back picks himself but I think I've seen I think the last couple of games he's earned that right now to start

53:03as left back I think that's why we brought him to the club I think yeah the rest of the team almost picks itself for me so a little bit more consistency but I think that will come come on the back of this couple of weeks of extra hard work that I believe he's had on the training ground Greg I know you are a believer and you look at the next game you don't look past the next game but I'm still going to come up anyway so because I think I've got an opportunity I think we've got an opportunity I know you always go mad at us for this but I can't help it you look at the next five games so you've got wolves on Saturday who are fourth at home 150th anniversary full of the Riverside Stadium opportunity either are it going to be a tough game got away at the stoke midweek again tricky game home to Cardiff who are sitting 21st in the league opportunity away at the Bolton who are sitting 15th in the league opportunity home to Charlton who have won on a bad run at the moment doubt the ninth and won in the last five at home opportunity

54:06now to me if Middlesbracken do what we're all wanting to do which has picked the strongest 11 and get that team on the pitch if they can for the majority of those games that's a that's a real opportunity for a middle to put a cement the self not just in the top six but possibly in the top two Graham I'm going to rain you in each game is each game is a kind of a pick like Simon alluded to right let's get the players back the end of the week seals fit because you're looking at wolves are already thinking get out we're we're full strength 11 out three points easy then you're moving on to Cardiff another three points easy midweek store easy doesn't work like that never has done so for me that the quicker we can cement some continuity throughout the team I think it'll serve us better throughout the course of the season to pick up enough points so you've got to be looking at the two two points again formula really to to sustain a serious challenge because there's going to be a cluster of teams up there we're going to put in the same continuity of performance

55:07every single week and it's going to be really really tough but we've just got to maintain the momentum and for me to get momentum we have to start playing a regular team a team that picks itself once that starts happening I think we'll start mortering through the through the through the through the pace is really and sustain it a solid challenge but yeah it's it's too it's too hard to predict what's going to happen in three or four games time you don't know what happens if we lot we lost Lancia with injury I'm going to have to clip that bandy I'm not tough that's if you want me if you're jumping ahead of yourself but I am as well because it can conceivably happen typical borough like why do we call ourselves suckers or borough on the pod yeah no it's it it is too tough but if you if you ask me how many points are we looking at you know the next what five five game or so the next just 15 three wins couple of draws yeah 10 to 12 points will be I'll be sufficient just to keep his in that in that pack

56:10that's good that's that's positive that's very good that's brilliant and you've got you've got one beaten there three with three wins and two draws you've got one beaten great I work I work on the premise of three points at all and any away point is a damn good point irrespective of how we play it just don't get beat away from warm and make sure you win as many home games as possible if you do that you've got a hell of a chance of promotion automatic promotion so create I'll bring you in bandys is don't get carried away three wins and two three wins and two draws what what are you expecting from middle's rough of the next five do you think that's an opportunity I'd just look at your next game exactly you're going to win the homeless world Cup craigs you've already plotted your reach to the final already so remind you about that January yeah let's say I think you know you mentioned that this is a bit of a lap distance isn't it in the basis of you're playing a team that was in the Premier League last year you know they've still got the fairly

57:12number at the same squad so I think for me not looking beyond this game but looking at this game you've seen like this a real marker for as well are we you know because I don't know where both I think we've controlled a lot of the games this year you know I know there's been a debate about 45 minutes strength and you know not playing a full 90 but I think it's soundly determined I know the boys have been working really hard you know to again I bring more consistency across the 90 minutes so the I think this is a real war opportunity for us to see where we stand so you're wanting the voice of reason bring you in yeah so the one thing I would add we talk a lot about picking that start in 11 I think for the for the first time for a number of seasons our squad debt is brilliant so although I am all for pushing for it being you know a bit more consistency in the starting line up I think I've got more confidence than I have for a while at when we do turn to the bench this season we've said a number of times at half time and we our bench is going to win this game and I really believe that you know the players that don't get chosen the star we've got players that are coming off the pitch coming off the bench sorry and making

58:17a difference so definitely for the consistency but I understand the rotation a little bit and I think we have got I think that's going to stand as in good so maybe as you say created the wolves game being a test but I think in some of those other games that strength in depth is is really going to make a difference good point Simon listen guys we'll finish up because it's nearly an hour we'll finish with a prediction so the wolves game I'll start with you Simon wolves at home 150th game sell out crowd remember the name the podcast what's your prediction I'm going to go there in this eight no I saw a quote today about typical borough with win by eight book on seed seven but anyway I am going to say do you know what I think I feel like we're going to carry on that I think there's so much positivity after yesterday I'm going to go for a two one home win two one band you'll come to you one no Lancia a familiar tier list season hopefully

59:20that would be nice Craig prediction I'm going to go three one home one three one very positive I'm going to have the I'm going to see it two two going to go a Desmond I'm going to two two and I think I think I think it'll be a late equalizer by Hamilton Riggard but I'll go two two yeah you said three three wins I have to try and balance it off a little bit before we're looks stupid but yeah I was being serious about Michael back in the engineering anyway guys that's a time Craig thank you very much for coming on greatly how you tell your story and your life stories you know hopefully get get your back run in the future on the podcast absolutely thanks so much for having me on general I'm going to really appreciate it thank you absolutely class humbling and inspirational brilliant that Craig thank you mate and thanks to you Simon and Bandy we'll see you on sunday possible the remember borough fans don't see a typical borough watch it listen to it and we'll be back on sunday

1:00:23open the borough open the borough feels up the borough