Trump labels AI fears 'A HOAX'

0:00ABC Listen, podcasts, radio, news, music and more. Good morning, welcome to AM. It's Tuesday the 15th of September. I'm Rachel Mealy coming to you from the lands of the Turbulent Yagra people in Brisbane. It's a chilling warning, not least, because it's coming from one of the tech pioneers long at the forefront of the artificial intelligence revolution. Jack Clark, a co-founder of the AI Giant Anthropic, says, It's time for companies like his to work with world governments to develop a kill switch for the rapidly advancing technology, which many fear is becoming too powerful to control. But that call is being dismissed by Donald Trump, who says the concerns are a hoax and a sick conspiracy. Insisting the only AI guardrail the USA needs is a strong and smart, high IQ president, Nick Grimm reports. The call for action couldn't be more stark.

1:01If we continue as we are, which is basically a broadly totally unregulated industry, developing incredibly powerful technology with is getting much, much smarter over time, likely soon smarter than people, then I think that we are rolling dice with immense risks. Anthropic co-founder Jack Clark is the latest tech industry insider speaking out this time to the BBC. Warning the odds are looking increasingly worse in their gamble with artificial intelligence. So much so. He wants urgent action to ensure humanity retains the power to shut it down, if necessary. I think most, most labs have different ways of being able to pull the plug. And yes, of course, we have systems in place for this. But this is the kind of thing that you want to feed into the larger policy conversation. Should you mandate for companies definitely have a kill switch and is that kill switch verifiable by a third party? I think that's the kind of thing that society is going to want to know and might want to eventually pass rules around. Tech companies and their founders have long marked themselves out for chafing irritably against the notion of regulation

2:02of society imposing controls over the runaway pace of developments generating multi-billion and trillion dollar returns. But in recent days, a succession of industry insiders have warned AI needs to be slowed down. And tropic scientists, Evan Herbinger, insisting there was a one in ten chance it could wipe out humanity. But Donald Trump insists that talk is just the fetus and would only see the US surrender its lead in artificial intelligence to China, posting this on his website, Truth Social. When in the history of business did anyone see the leaders of an industry call for regulation that if strongly implemented will drive them into oblivion and bankruptcy. AI taking over the world, destroying humanity and all other things bad is a hoax. Donald Trump is also opposed to that the only control or guardrails that AI needs is a quote strong and smart high IQ president. And he adds that the US has no shortage of that. But others want the US and China to work together to develop clearer guidelines and controls.

3:06Rebecca Archesati is head of science, technology and innovation that the Brussels-based Mercata Institute for China Studies. At this moment the question becomes who's going to blink first, right? Is it going to be a US lab and it's not clear yet whether we'll get to a point where US AI labs who have the incentives to keep developing will slow down. And then there's the China piece and the question will China ever consider any form of safe guards if they don't believe that the US will do that first. And we are in this race where US frontier labs are indeed a head still. Even though Chinese companies have been narrowing the gap very quickly, and the US still maintains an advantage in terms of computing power, that is actually a big reason why the Chinese government has been eager to enter a discussion with US government counterparts about AI risks and safety.

4:07I think one thing that the Chinese government will surely hope to achieve through any sort of dialogue is that the US government relaxes some controls on semi-conductor technology from flowing to China. You know, that was definitely what happened when the Biden administration entered conversations with Chinese counterparts around AI risks and safety as we know those talks failed in the end. So I'm not so sure that we will see much breakthrough coming out of the meeting between President Xi Jinping and President Donald Trump. Later this month that we may see, I hope, at least some limited agreement. And here Australia's cyber intelligence chief shares the view voiced by a growing chorus of industry figures that an AI early warning system is needed to help defend against the threat it poses. Australian signals director director General Abigail Bradshaw says, greater coordination with AI companies is necessary to identify potential risks associated with

5:11the technology breaking out. Nick Grimm reporting, the South Australian city of Waiala faces an uncertain economic future after its steel works announced it's slashing 500 jobs. The Waiala steel works is Australia's biggest manufacturer of structured steel used for rail lines, bridges and industrial buildings, accounting for 75% of Australia's structural steel. But it struggled through a decade of financial problems and uncertainty. The ABC's Catherine Birmingham is in Waiala. Catherine, how are locals feeling right now? Well Rachel, I think there's really mixed emotions on the ground here in Waiala. The people that we've spoken to, they're feeling a mix of sadness. There's certainly a lot of sadness among people here. This is a big industry for the town and obviously a really significant amount of jobs that are going to be lost. And the mayor feels don't put it really well. Yesterday he said that this is a sad day for Waiala.

6:13But he also touched on and other people we've spoken do have touched on the fact that this was in a sense inevitable. The blast furnace had been offline since April and workers had been trying all year to get it back up and running. It was becoming increasingly clear that that just wasn't going to happen. And so I think there are people here who feel that finally the call has been made to stop those efforts abandoned abandoned the blast furnace and move forward. And they feel like they can turn a new page. This steelworks has had a troubled decade. Is there any confidence that it has any kind of future? I think there's definitely a sense of hope that it does have a real future. And the government here in South Australia has been talking a lot about how to make the steelworks sustainable into the future to make sure that we're not back in this position in another 10 years. Like we were 10 years ago. There's nearly $2 billion on the table for whoever does end up

7:13buying the steelworks to revamp the furnace and make sure that it's into the future more sustainable. So I think there is a sense of hope. There's a huge reliance in Waila and I think there's a sense of determination to make sure that the steelworks is kept afloat because it is so important to this city. And what are the state and federal governments saying about the situation? The state and federal governments we've heard from a fair bit over the last 19 months. The steelworks was tipped into administration by the state government 19 months ago. And since then we've heard a lot about the importance of sovereign steelmaking in Australia. The plant here at Waila is responsible for three quarters of structural steel in Australia. So it's really important. And I guess when they talk about that taxpayer money that's on the table to try and make this plant sustainable into the future, they often point to how important it is to maintain a sovereign steelmaking capability

8:16as the reason why they've been so forthcoming with that money. That's Catherine Birmingham in Waila. There are serious fears for the world's oil supplies after one of Saudi Arabia's critical oil pipelines was damaged in a drone attack. The kingdom could run out of export supplies for oil if it can't get the pipeline up and running again quickly. Energy Minister Chris Bowen is heading to Saudi Arabia next week to meet with his counterpart in a bid to shore up Australia's fuel supply. Another looming problem is Yemen's hoothy rebels who've seized more key islands in the southern red sea, tightening their grip on one of the world's key oil supply routes. Bill Farron Price is distinguished research fellow from the Oxford Institute for Energy Studies. Bill Farron Price, how is this going to impact global fuel supply? Your warning of a major economic crisis. I think it's just yet another hammer blow for global oil

9:18supply that has been gradually choked since the beginning of the Iran crisis with less cargo coming out of the straightforward moves, which is a major source of oil exports for the world. And this is yet another moment where efforts to bypass the Hormuz routes have been insticted and did the attack on this pipeline. We don't really have much information on how long it will take them to resolve it and to fix it. And for the time that it's off, that really tight and supply considerably. Without this pipeline, we're being warned that Saudi will run out of oil within days. What happens then? Well, it won't run out of oil domestically, but it's thanks that it's storage that it uses for sending oil out from Yanbou on the west coast will be emptied. And so unless it can increase exports by ship through the straightforward moves, and there are some going out that the question is, are they secure and really can they resolve this,

10:23can they go back to their normal level? And I think the answer to that is pretty clearly no at this point because there's no diplomatic agreement with Iran and the GCC countries on how to do that. So it's still unfortunately more of a war zone. And I think that that means that oil prices will stay elevated with Brent over about $100. And obviously the knock on effects for oil products are really severe and really impactful for drivers and for industry as well. What do we know about how resilient those alternative pipeline routes to bypass this choke point are? Well, the only I mean, the big one was the Saudi one. There is another UAE bypass pipeline as well. But I think what this tells us the big takeaway from all of this is that until there is some sort of political agreement between US and Iran, between the Gulf, Arab countries and Iran

11:27that really any piece of energy infrastructure in the region is can be targeted. So it seems to me that this is telling us that bypasses really don't necessarily work. And I think the focus needs to be on a long term political resolution and that unfortunately seems to be something that's very in the far distant horizon at the moment. You're an experienced observer of oil supplies. How worried do you think the leaders of the world's big economies are right now? Well, I think some of the leaders are trying to play down this oil shock. But I think the problem is that it is feeding into inflation, not just for energy itself, but for downstream of that in terms of agriculture, in terms of industrial production. And we're beginning to see that inflation feeds through into the data that will help central bankers set interest rates. And I think that the big fear

12:32is that we're going to see these rising interest rates sparked by this surge of inflation that's really energy driven. And that's going to be a real challenge for governments and for for monetary authorities as well. That's Bill Farron Price from the Oxford Institute of Energy Studies. Details of one nation's immigration policy is still being settled with one of its MPs suggesting the party is open to slashing Australia's permanent family visa intake. It comes as the minor party says it would call Australia's temporary migration intake by 750,000 places over three years. Political reporter Sarah Tamefska has more. You have to make the hard decisions which one nation prepared to do to bring the numbers down. And we're going to do it. One nation's Barnaby Joyce isn't afraid of a debate, taking liberal

13:33Andrew Hastie to task on the ABC's national forum on migration last night. What are bad ideas? Well, well, the bad idea is that you haven't really explained how you're going to do it. One nation says it'll slash 750,000 migrants from the country in three years by dramatically reducing foreign student numbers banning the families of skilled migrants and students from entering the country cracking down on so-called visa hopping and deporting those here illegally. One nation MP David Farley says his party's policy comes with a solid economic plan. Can you reveal what the impact of this policy will be to the economy? Over time, we will definitely. If you've done the modeling, why can't you provide that information? We will. We'll roll our strategy out of immigration completely over the next four to nine. Former Deputy Secretary of the Immigration Departmentable Rizvi is skeptical. He says one nation's pledge to deport 80,000 people who've overstayed their visa within the government's existing budget is unrealistic.

14:36Frankly, I'll fly to the moon before that happens. The idea that you can remove 80,000 people from Australia, cheaply, easily and quickly is just nonsense. Raising questions about other details too. There's a number of crucial numbers that are missing that makes it hard to analyse what they actually proposing. For example, there is zero mention of the permanent migration program. It's as if it doesn't exist. While one nation hasn't nominated a permanent migration target, David Farley says permanent family visas could be on the chopping block. That would be dependent upon how we grow our infrastructure here. And what's been demonstrated over the last five years in particular, that the infrastructure is not a valid. That's going from everything from houses, schools, hospitals. We've got to get that back in balance. So cutting family reunion visas for Australian citizens is potentially on the table? Potentially. Currently, Labor grants 40,000 partner and child visas per year.

15:38Former Deputy Secretary of the Immigration Departmentable Rizvi says the government's intake already sits in a legal grey zone. Under Section 87 of the Migration Act, the government has no power to cap or limit the number of partner visas issued to partners and dependent children of Australian citizens and permanent residents. The Department of Home Affairs website says it manages the monon demand-driven basis, but that they've patentally not the case. As a result, the backlog for partner visas is around 120,000 and growing. None of the parties have mentioned anything that they will do about that situation. Meanwhile, pressure is also mounting on the government to reveal details of its plan changes to Australia's migration settings. Sarah Tamebska reporting, Women's AFL is now a popular and permanent fixture on Australia's sporting calendar, but getting it there wasn't easy. A new play by globally renowned writer Susie Miller,

16:39called Strong, is the new pretty, is telling the story of how the competition got going. Stephanie Smiles sat down with Susie Miller in Brisbane. Susie Miller was part of the Gold Coast crowd witnessing an AFL W grand final for the first time. And I thought this is generational change, how did they do that? The idea for her new play, Strong is the new pretty, started there and has just had its world premiere in Brisbane. I wanted to write about how they did it because there was no space for them, and they just created the space and worked together behind the scenes in this really fabulous way, where there was not one hero, there were just all these women passing the batten amongst each other. The London-based playwright has had huge international success, particularly with her powerful legal dramas, Prima Facy and Inter-Aliya. She drew on her experience as a lawyer to tell those stories and says she found common themes as she explored the beginnings of the AFL W competition.

17:43When I was first a lawyer, I mean women couldn't wear pants to court, there were all sorts of issues with women becoming partners, I mean being pregnant was something you couldn't mention to anyone, and now that's changed, but this was like a really visual microcosm of exactly that kind of change, but something that everyone knows about and everyone can turn on their televisions and watch. And I just thought it really is a way of talking about boardrooms, courtrooms, politicians, people that run companies and saying make room at the table for women, and when you do hear the way they lead, they lead differently. You're a woman telling this story about big female change in Australia. Do you think there are enough stories being told by women about women? There's a hunger for female protagonists, there's a hunger for women to see themselves on stage in films, in stories, to be able to relate to that, to be able to grow with that, to be able to talk about that, and I think as a writer, my role is not so much to tell people, it's just to start a conversation.

18:43The play is a fictional retelling of the true events that led to the women's league becoming a reality. Lauren Arnell was the Carlton captain when the official competition kicked off. It was momentous and I think looking back on it now, that's a really special point in history, not just for women's sport, but I think for everyone in our country. Strong as the new pretty is going to tour the country, but Susie Miller acknowledges other Australian productions aren't having as much success, with some being cancelled before they make it to the stage, or seasons being cut short. If we don't see that the arts is a very legitimate and actually exciting, forward piece of creative industry that you can export, that you can offer to tourists, that you can attract people to this country for, then it becomes a bit of a dead end for those incredibly talented people in that country. The playable head interstate soon as the AFLW's 10th official season continues. Stephanie Smail reporting, and that's AM for today. Thanks for your company. I'm Rachel Mealy.

19:45Hi, Sam Hawley here, host of the ABC News Daily podcast. We're being warned that if we don't slow it down, AI could kill us within a decade. But how exactly would it do that? Today, philosopher Nick Bostrom, what happens when AI is smarter than humans? Look for the ABC News Daily podcast on ABC Listen.