TRUE CRIME ROUNDUP: A botched execution and the crime that led to it, plus updates to the Lindsay Clancy case

0:00Getting a data center online takes precision. Greybar helps you stage, schedule, and deliver the critical products you need to keep projects on time. Yep, Greybar does that. Whoop. Sleep better, train smarter, recover faster, and feel healthier. Understand and optimize your sleep. Get coaching and insights for every age, stage, and cycle. Track over 140 habits. Get a 360 view of your training and workouts. Never miss a second of that with a wireless and waterproof charge. Expect all new features all the time. Life can feel overwhelming, but on my podcast, from the heart with Rachel Brayton, we're in it together. Every Friday brings you a new story. Listen to From the Heart with Rachel Brayton, wherever you get your podcasts. This is a true crime roundup from the On Deadline podcast.

1:01We explore crime stories reported on by Audisie's Radio Newsrooms across the country. I'm your host, Lauren Berry. This week we'll listen to the latest developments in the case of Lindsay Clancy, a Massachusetts mother accused of strangling her three young children to death. Last month, her murder trial ended in a mistrial. And it's still unclear whether a new trial will be held. We'll also dive into the 1995 murder of Colleen Slammer and the botched execution of her convicted murderer, a story that's been making headlines. 50-year-old Christa Pike still remained alive, but in critical condition this weekend, days after her scheduled execution on September 30th. First, we'll check in on Quick Crime Updates from around the nation, starting with an update on the Chipotle murder out of Detroit. Here's Audisie's station, WWJ News Radio, with the report.

2:05Very short hearing this morning for the man charged with first-degree murder in connection with the deadly stabbing of a Chipotle worker in downtown Detroit. The attorney for Devon Watson, Charles Longstreet, requested a competency exam. You're on at this time based on my preliminary investigation to the fact that the case along with my initial interview with my client, I think it'll be proven at this time for the defense for request a competency evaluation for both competency to stand trial and criminal responsibility. And joining us live with more is WWJ Legal Analyst Charlie Langton and Charlie Nothing Surprising There. Nothing Surprising at all. In fact, there was a two-minute hearing. In fact, Devon Watson was not even present at the hearing, he doesn't have to be. But the attorney, as you just heard, Charles Longstreet asked for his client, 42-year-old Devon Watson, to order a competency exam and pretty much without objection, the judge did. He's being charged with first-degree murder because his attorney says that he may not understand the charges against him,

3:06and he may not be able to assist the attorney. That's the purpose of a competency exam at this point in time. And we're talking about the death of 34-year-old Jacquia Wicks, who was just taking a break from her downtown Detroit Chipoltae job. Now, there's still a memorial to her in the alley where she was stabbed. Now, the judge said a December date for the competency exam. Let's see what happens. If he doesn't understand the charges, then they'll have to proceed in a different way. But if he does, the case will go on, and the prosecutor will go through the preliminary exam, and ultimately trial. Reporting live, Charlie Langton, W.J. News Radio 950. Hey, Charlie. Do you have any idea what those competency exams entail like how they do it, what they're testing for? Yes, it's an evaluation by a qualified psychologist usually, and what they're looking for is, does they defend it in this case? Devon Watson, understand that he's being charged with first-degree murder? That's one, and number two, is can he assist his attorney in defending the case?

4:06That's the only issue that will be important at this point in time. There are some other areas later on, not guilty by reason of insanity, etc. But at this point in time, today, right now, does he understand the charges against him? So it's an evaluation, and then it's done. There's various agencies that will do an exactly sure where they're going to go, but they'll get it, and hopefully they'll get it done before that to summer. I think it's the second, I forget, I think it's the second, summer second is the date that they'll have the exam, and then the judge will make a decision. And that will be really the issue at this point in time. Next, we have an outdated automation, doesn't have to slow you down. Greybar helps you identify risks, modernize strategically, and minimize disruption. Every step of the way. Yep, Greybar does that. Sleep better, train smarter, recover faster, and feel healthier.

5:07Understand and optimize your sleep. Get coaching and insights for every age, stage, and cycle. Track over 140 habits. Get a 360 view of your training and workouts. Never miss a second of that with a wireless and waterproof charger. Expect all new features all the time. I'm Jennifer Fisher, and I'm Angela Kinsey, and we're the office ladies. We're still talking about all the hilarious behind-the-scenes details from the office, with icons from the show like Rain Wilson, Greg Daniels, Malora Harden, and so many more. And we can't forget our two conversations with office ladies, Superfan, Billy Eilish. Hello! So join us for brand new episodes every Wednesday. And revisit the office rewatch every Monday. Follow and listen to office ladies wherever you get your podcasts. Update on a woman and her boyfriend, accused of killing that woman's four-year-old son.

6:07Here's Odyssey Station KYW News Radio in Philadelphia with the details. Improze cuters and defense attorneys wrapped up closing arguments in the trial against a mother and her boyfriend, accused of killing her four-year-old son. Here's KWW's sunny Morgan in the courtroom. Defense lawyer for Dominique Bailey told the jury that prosecutors did not prove his client premeditated the murder of her son, four-year-old, Demari Carter. He says she was a victim as well, and her fast-moving relationship with Kevin Spencer led her to neglect her child. Despite testimony from the medical examiner, who ruled Demari's death as a homicide, Spencer's lawyer says there's still no proof as to how it happened. He also told jurors that Bailey failed as a mother, and referred to her early claim of Demari being killed in a car accident in December of 2023. Supposing arguments prosecutors read aloud a transcript of a voicemail Bailey left at chop, asking to check on her son. Officials say there was no record of the boy being admitted to the hospital. Both sides referred to testimony from Bailey's father, who told the courtroom he cared for his grandson, and tried to potty train him right before his death.

7:09The father testified that once he told his daughter to follow rules and take care of her son, she left and moved in with Spencer. Prosecutors used cell phone records and surveillance footage from Spencer's apartment to prove their case. The footage showed Spencer with the same double bag Demari was found in. Bailey and Spencer waved their right to testify in court. At the criminal justice center, Sunny Morgan, K-WU News Radio, 103-9 FM. And in the Bay Area, Odyssey Station KCBS Radio reported on answers finally revealed in a decade's old cold case. For nearly six decades, her name remained a mystery a teenager found dead in a downtown Oakland hotel room in October of 1969. Now thanks to modern DNA technology, police and the FBI finally have some answers. Let's go live to Oakland KCBS's Matt Bigler. Matt, good morning. Good morning, Steve. This teenage girl's life was tragically cut short 57 years ago. This month, she was finally identified yesterday.

8:12The victim previously known as Jane Doe has been positively identified as Joanne, Yvonne, her dick. Oakland police chief James Beere says, Joni, as she was known to her family, was strangled to death in the former St. Louis Hotel, which no longer exists. Advanced forensic gene genealogy matched her DNA evidence to her surviving brother. We recognize that no investigation can change what happened to Joni. We hope today's announcement will provide answers for her family. And we continue to pursue justice 57 years later. The FBI has also named a prime suspect, Taylor Tiford, known as the crew cut killer. Tiford was on the FBI's 10 most wanted list decades ago for murdering his own grandmother, but he was never caught. If alive today, he would be 91. Live in Oakland, Matt Bigler, KCBS. All right, Matt, thank you. Nearly a month after a mistrial in the Lindsay Clancy case, the mother accused...

9:18Aging control systems can increase downtime and risk. Greybar helps you plan the right automation upgrades to improve reliability and prepare for what's next. Yep, Greybar does that. Whoop. Sleep better, train smarter, recover faster and feel healthier. Understand and optimize your sleep. Get coaching and insights for every age, stage and cycle. Track over 140 habits. Get a 360 view of your training and workouts. Never miss a second of that with a wireless and waterproof charger. Expect all new features all the time. It was a gruesome discovery off a dirt road in Georgia. Hunters had found a body. Was it immediately clear to you that this woman had been murdered? Yes. But who was this mystery woman in the woods? That looks like Mindy.

10:19I'm Erin Moriarty and from 48 hours, this is the woman in the woods. I've never wanted to be wrong, like this in my whole entire life. Follow and listen to the woman in the woods wherever you get your podcasts. If killing her children appeared in court this week. Attorney Terry Conner's joined a new morning out of Odyssey Station WBEN in Buffalo to discuss motions filed by Clancy's attorney. We've heard from attorneys. What do you make of all the noise that's happened since the mistrial was declared? Well, there's a lot of things that are really going on right now. I'm a little harsh this morning. But today we'll be revealing the answers to your questions that will come out at the conference today. Are they going to retry? They'll probably say we're looking at a retrial. Have they reached the public agreement? Well, we'll know if they have some type of progress in that area.

11:20But the most important thing now from all of that noise brine is the motions that were filed by Kevin Reddington. The judge is going to have to decide three important motions. One, is he willing to grant a trial order of dismissal? That basically means that the judge will say there was never enough evidence to convict. And I'm declaring her not guilty. That's a long shot, but that's one motion. They've asked for a hearing about the juror, the one juror who is the whole battle. The juror now has his own lawyer. So that ought to be very interesting as to what happens there. But to me, from a legal standpoint, the most interesting motion is the motion that there was not a need to declare a mistrial. The language is there has to be a manifest necessity. And Reddington is going to say, Judge, you didn't have to declare a mistrial. You could have done an inquiry about the juror. You could have done a lot of things. You could have replaced the juror and the fact that you declared a mistrial. The juror means that you can't try it again because it's a double jeopardy.

12:23So there's a lot going on today. Wow. All right. So Terry, you've been at this for a long time. If you're the judge in this case, what do you do? Well, I think the safest thing for the judge is to deny the motions and let it play out to see if they reach sometimes of a plea agreement. And then the rest of it can be decided on appeal. What Reddington is doing now, Susan is protecting the record for an appeal. He's making sure that every possible issue of race and it's raised on the record in a formal motion. So I think what the judge, for what he has shown so far, is he's not likely to grant these motions. And you know, he might hope that in the meantime, they reach some type of a plea agreement. Keep it one. They could always do that. They could always accept the plea to a lesser offense. And she's already served several years in jail. That could be worked out. So I doubt if he's going to grant these motions, but they're real me interesting from the standpoint of a lawyer. I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on this hold out juror.

13:28And I want to ask you about that specifically. You know, he's called the loan hold out juror in this case. You take, you have any, I'm bridge or take any offense to that classification of this because I wonder some time. You know, we're calling this guy the hold out juror. I mean, shouldn't he just be referred to as a juror? He's a juror in the deliberation. He said what he believed. And you know, that's it. But we're kind of characterizing this one guy. He's the hold out. Like he's the reason that we didn't get this done. I mean, it takes 12 people to find somebody guilty or or not guilty. Well, you probably have seen or heard the pushback on using that characterization. That's where a system is about. Sometimes there is only one hold out. That's the way the system works. And there's been a lot of people and agencies pushing back to say this isn't fair. I think what Reddington is saying though is I don't object to a juror being a hold out.

14:30If the juror is a hold out for the right reasons, if the juror actually has a doubt of some kind or if the juror believes strongly that there's enough evidence to convict. I think what he's objecting to is that there is improper conduct in the part of this juror. It's not a question of whether it was a true belief. According to some of the reports they say that he did have a reasonable doubt but he wouldn't vote and he wouldn't follow the instruction. So there's really two sides for the addition now. And I'm sure his new lawyer is going to come in and claim that that's his absolute right to hold out. He did nothing wrong and create and characterize the record as supportive of that juror. So you're right. There's controversy over what we should be calling this juror. What has all of this, the outspoken juror's, what has this done to this case? Well, what it has done Susan is it has required that if it goes forward with a new trial, the jury selection process is now been extended.

15:33You're going to have to go into some of these issues to see whether or not people can still be fair and impartial, given all the noise around this case, given all the pre-trial and post-trial wrangling about this case, and it's extended the vod year, the jury selection process, probably by days if not week. How can that jury selection process work? I'm thinking back to you hear from some of these other jurors. And they're commenting almost as if admitting that they were looking to make some sort of social or political statement with the case. How do you screen out something like that happening in a second trial? It's very difficult. The jurors are required to sign a questionnaire. And there's an oath in that questionnaire that says that they will answer any of the questions posed to them by the court, honestly and truthfully. And that's what you hope that you get, but you can never guarantee that. It's just a name on a piece of paper. And then when they're actually questioned in the court, they're also subject to taking an oath that they will be honest and true.

16:40You just have to hope that that's the case. And you can't do some collateral searches on some of the jurors. In other words, you can look to see, you can't contact them during the process, but you can look to see where they are. On certain political leanings, you can find out certain background information. We live in a age of social media. You can find out a lot about them and sometimes a great example is the jury will say, no, I've never had any involvement with the criminal justice system. And lo and behold, you look and you find out who you're actually has a criminal record. Those are the kind of things that have to be done in the next trial. Terry, for Lindsey Clancy herself, is there any chance under any circumstances that she would be released? No, no. It's the most serious offense under the Boston P.O. law. And right now, she's being held in a facility, a mental health facility. And there's just no chance that she's going to be released. The only way it would work would be if they reach a plea agreement to a lesser included offense.

17:43And the sentence is time-served, which is, I think, roughly three and a half, maybe a little bit more than that years. That's the only way. It'd have to be some conclusion of this matter for her to be released. On Thursday, October 1st, a judge did indeed deny a motion to find Clancy not guilty due to lack of evidence. ABC's Peter Heralambus joined WBEN to discuss what was going on in the courtroom. Clancy was back in a courtroom yesterday, the first hearing since the mistrial. What did we hear yesterday? Good morning. That's right. She was back in court for the first time. And unfortunately, she's left in the same kind of uncertainty. She had after that mistrial on September 4th, neither side really wanted to commit to setting a new trial. They neither side wanted to say explicitly if they were actually interested in going forward with a new trial as opposed to some kind of potential plea deal. We also saw a dramatic reversal in some ways from Lindsey Clancy's attorney.

18:43They spent that entire trial arguing that Clancy was responsible for killing her kids, but that she shouldn't be held criminally responsible because she was in a state of postpartum psychosis. Yesterday, we actually heard a new argument where her defense attorney argued actually there's no evidence that Clancy killed her children, a kind of contradictory argument in some ways to that initial insanity defense. We'll have to see how the judge rules on that motion. They're due back in quarter November 2nd. Okay, and I did see that the prosecution called that laughable the strategy change, but what would be the argument behind it for the defense? So I think it all needs to be put in the context of the argument they're making. It's an emotion for a required finding of not guilty. And with this case, it's an affirmative defense, right? It's an insanity defense usually for cases like this where you're asserting an affirmative defense. They split the trial up into two parts. The first part is this big question of whether she did or didn't do it. The second question is should be she be held criminally responsible because of her mental state.

19:45Now in this case, they decided not to break it up to do it all in one. So there are those two big legal questions that prosecutors have the responsibility of addressing. And of course, the trial more so focused on the second question. Was she criminally responsible because of her mental state? Because everyone kind of assumed the answer to question one, even the defense team, which didn't really contest it. They said she knows she killed her kids in their opening statement. Now it seems like the defense team is trying to look at that like a vulnerability, kind of a legal tactical move, highlight issues with the forensic evidence. For example, issues with how the investigation was conducted to create some kind of reasonable doubt about question one. Did she actually do it? But because at the end of the day, the lawyer's statements to court these openings and closing, those are not evidence. The real evidence is what the prosecution presented. And according to Kevin Ruddington, Clintie's defense attorney, there was just not enough evidence to say without a reasonable doubt that Clintie was the person who did this. All right, not evidence. It was just an assortment.

20:48Dana Wright, Scott Parks and Sam Stevie III of the Dana and Parks show out of Odyssey Station KMBZ in Kansas City, also weighed in on the Clancy case. From the Associated Press, Lindsey Clancy's lawyer argued today that there was not enough evidence to prove that she killed her three children. A striking turn after a lengthy trial that focused more on her mental state than on whether she took their lives. So to turn, he Kevin Ruddington, this entire case is based on speculation. The jury was split, of course, 11 to one in her favor when it deadlocked on September 4th. But during that trial, Ruddington did not dispute that Lindsey Clancy had killed the children of the families home in 2023. Instead, the defense sought to persuade the jury that the 36 year old former labor and delivery nurse was not criminally responsible because of mental disease. They stipulated up front. She did it. They didn't ever denied it. And now I guarantee you we're going to see a shift.

21:52They're going to try to just start shifting the story, hoping nobody notices because of the retrial. This says to me they are going to go guns blazing when they retry her and say, you know, not only was she suffering from postpartum psychosis, but I mean, we don't really know what happened inside that house. I have two questions. Is Mr. Ruddington wrong? No, he's not. We've heard over a lot of the evidence in this case as we discussed it throughout the trial. I didn't see anything that directly pointed to her doing it. It was all circumstantial based on him going to get food. Who threw out the windows, Sam? The argument can be based. She threw herself out. Oh, come on. If you ask a certain number of people on the internet, somebody else may have thrown her out the window. That's interesting. I am not suggesting that. That terrifies me. We are definitely not suggesting that. Not suggesting that. Considering he's going to sue anybody who says that. And should. Secondly, if she didn't, but he thought as her defense attorney that there was no way they were convincing a jury she didn't do it,

22:54is there anything wrong with presenting the case as, okay, she did it, but even if you feel deep down that the evidence does not present that. That's how it was presented and should have been presented. He starts flirting with, well, we're not really sure she did it. And you have lost the room at that point. Have you? It concerns me that there are a lot of people with a lot of time on their hands that go online and start making up assumptions about him. Because they don't like him or they didn't like, you know, they didn't like the way he sat and looked in court. Like how are you supposed to look after your wife, murders, all your children? But here's the deal. How do you supposed to act after that? I'm asking, is someone write a book on that? The only, what evidence do prosecutors actually have? Because her admitting and air quotes admitting that she did it was profored by the defense. Not by the prosecution. They just conceded, okay, she did it, but, and I'm just trying to play both sides here.

24:00So don't think I'm in favor of her getting released from prison or jail or whatever. But during the trial, we learned that she had a recollection of killing her children, but it was a dream like recollection. Isn't that what you would say to with something so horrifying, you would almost have to believe that? Or she never confessed to the police. Or she was told the story so many times that now she believes that she did it again just to play devil's advocate. I've already stated how I feel about this case. My God, she's so guilty. And I, I always say this two, two, three, four things can be true at the same time. It can be true that the system failed her, the whole system. Absolutely, that can be true. And I would agree with that. We need to do better and more by our postpartum mommas. Absolutely we do. That's true. It can also be true that she killed those kids. And where's your evidence to that? There's a house full of it.

25:00No, there's not. You think that's what you're just talking about? I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. We are believing the prosecution's timeline and story of events. But the timeline is based on time stamped surveillance data that we have where Patrick left and went and ran those errands. Like it's insanity. We're even talking about this. It's insane that there's no physical evidence linking her to these killings. None. Well, I disagree with you there. If there is, it wasn't presented. Of course, there's physical evidence. The children and the autopsies and the exercise bands. There's physical evidence that the children are dead. There's no doubt about that. What there isn't is physical evidence that she did it. And I'm playing the devil's advocate with you because they do have an argument to make.

26:03And Sam asked a minute ago is Kevin Reddington wrong? Because he doesn't say she didn't do it. Let me find the story again. What he says, he's very careful. He says this entire case is based on speculation. And there was not enough evidence to prove she killed her three children. And Sam asked, is he right? And I think the answer to that might be yes. That they lack physical evidence to prove that she was the one who killed those kids. She would also have to believe that she wrote in all of her diaries and mentioned to people that she was losing grip on reality and felt like harming the kids. Like all of that happens over here. And then some mystery person, just one hell of a coincidence happens to go in and kill the kids when he's out of the house and she's home and ends up flung out a window with self-inflicted wounds. I mean, it's literally insane that we're even having the conversation.

27:07But all he needs is one. He needs one juror to be like, well, I mean, I wasn't there. I don't really know. Or is he setting the table for a potential future trial? Retrieved. They'll get it. I'm telling you, I don't have any faith in the system at all with his case. To point the finger at the husband. And I'm not saying anything about a pot of clancy, but it is possible that that is where he is going to go and try to pin it on him. It's also possible that the only juror that was the loan hold out in the last case is going to somehow sway any future, even if they can hold a trial in that town, which I don't believe they can. You have to now know going in as a potential juror in that case that if you stand your ground and you are firm in believing that she bears some responsibility for this, that your name and address are going to be outed, you're going to be getting death threats. Who is going to want to serve on this jury?

28:07Well, and let me ask you this. Does the prosecution have to take that or should they take that into consideration that they might not be able to see an unbiased jury? There's not enough money or duty in the world that would have me seated on that jury. I don't think it's a case that's ever going to be resolved, Scott. I just don't. Krista Pike was sentenced to death 30 years ago when she was 20 years old for killing her 19 year old classmate Colleen slummers. Pike was scheduled to die this week. That didn't happen. Before we get into the shocking and gruesome details of Pike's botched execution, scoot from Odyssey Station, WWL in New Orleans, we'll fill us in on the crime that landed Pike in prison. And another violent crime she was accused of while incarcerated.

29:11She murdered a college classmate. And according to the story that I have, Krista Pike and her boyfriend, they were involved in the occult. They were involved in dark rituals. And they, I guess, were also part of the Satan worshipping group. They tried to create this satanic panic hysteria in the 1990s. And so in 1995, Krista was 18 years old. She and her boyfriend and another female killed Colleen slimmer in Knoxville, Tennessee. October 2026, they tried to execute her. That's was yesterday. Well, no, today early this morning, they tried to execute her and it didn't work. But she and her 17 year old boyfriend and their friend, a female, were students at a job training facility in Knoxville.

30:11They were apparently jealous and suspicious of this, this girl, Colleen slimmer. And they thought that she was interested in Krista's boyfriend. So Krista and her accomplices, Lord Colleen, into a remote wooded area of the University of Tennessee's agricultural campus. And over the course of a few hours, they tortured her, stabbed her, and beat her. Elements of the crime just created this widespread public attention about the fears of satanic panic at the time. And so this was going on in the 90s. And a lot of people were freaking out about satanic panic. A pentagram was carved directly into the girl's chest during the attack. And Krista crushed her skull, not her skull, but the skull of Colleen, and ultimately

31:14killed her. She kept a piece of her skull as a trophy. So following the arrest, Krista Pike was convicted in 1996 of first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder, receiving the death penalty. She became the only woman in Tennessee's death row, one of the youngest women in modern US history to ever receive the death penalty. Her accomplices received different sentences due to their age and involvement. Her boyfriend was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole because he was 17 at the time of the crime and legally ineligible for capital punishment. The female accomplice pled guilty to being an accessory after the fact and receive six years of probation. That seems like kind of a light sentence to me. Now while incarcerated, Krista Pike was also convicted in August of 2021 of attempted

32:15first degree murder during the assault of another inmate. Scoot also discussed how this attempted execution of Pike has brought up a barrage of questions about the death penalty at large. Actually, it's really kind of sad because this woman who she was young when she committed the crime in 1995, she's a little older now, but still when you consider the years that people spend on death row, somebody being executed for a crime committed in 1995 is pretty soon. But Krista Pike, they attempted in Tennessee to execute her last night, giving her not one, but two doses of the lethal injection, Petrobarba Tall, and she didn't die. She's still alive now. She's in the hospital and they have not released any information about her condition, but she is still alive. This really just resurrects a conversation about the death penalty and a lot of people want to talk about it. This is one of those continuing debates in our society.

33:20It's like the abortion debate, it's like the gun control debate, the death penalty debate. It touches a lot of people. Some people very much for it and I understand that point of view. I mean, I get it. But then there are people who are very much against it. And it's one of the reasons that I'm ambivalent about the death penalty because we're not the murderers. The people who commit the crime, they're the murderers. They're the bad people. We're not the bad people. So for us to go through this calculated process of taking a human life is a challenge for some people and it is a challenge for me. Odyssey Station KMBZ in Kansas City, Dana Wright, Scott Parks and Sam Stevie III of the Dana and Parks show also discussed the Pike case. Let's listen in on their talk from Thursday, October 1. This story from Channel 9 Tennessee officials were unable to put Christophe Pike to death

34:22yesterday for a 1995 murder after administering two doses of a lethal drug. A death penalty expert said it was an unprecedented failure. And Tennessee governor Bill Lee halted the one remaining execution for the rest of the year. Pike, who was 50 years old, she was 18 when she committed this crime was alive and loudly snoring after the attempted lethal injection and taken by ambulance from the prison. She was being treated at a hospital, but they said they had not been told about her condition. She was scheduled to die yesterday morning at 10 o'clock. Okay. Hex from like the New York Times saying, I don't know. There's but there was a stay Supreme court stepping in. I'm like, okay. So the stay expired and they brought her into the death chamber around 730 last night. If she had died, it would have been the first female executed in Tennessee in 200 years. Yeah. So they started administering the drugs and she says something to the effect of it feels like my arm is about to burst open.

35:25Then she says, is it really supposed to feel like this? Then the first attempt did not work. Nothing. They had a second IV and they started using that one. She apparently was snoring and her legs were shaking violently and she survived. Scoot also shared some of the comments from witnesses at the scene of the attempted execution. One witness said they went through two rounds and she was still breathing at the end. It was very ragged. She lifted her head up and looked around at one point. She said there was one spot that was burning and hurting and asked if that was normal. None of it was normal. I covered all the executions last year and most of the ones this year. We haven't seen anything like it. It was really very poorly done.

36:27Another TV anchor said, Christopher Pike continued to blink on and off. She was smiling. She let out a couple of laughs during the process. During the process of getting a lethal injection, this woman is laughing. Now we'll get back to that Dana and Parks discussion. Her attorneys have filed an emergency motion stating that Pike suffered unnecessary agony, stating she failed to lose consciousness, maintained a heartbeat and was audibly snoring after both doses. The execution was officially abandoned. There's witnesses to these things. There were reporters in the room. There's always a reporter and there's a witness. They had to then shuffle all of the witnesses out. Legal experts from NBC News noted that while other executions have been stopped due to like an inability to locate a vein kind of thing, a prisoner surviving after the actual administration of lethal drugs is virtually unprecedented in modern

37:29United States history. She is now in critical condition and receiving quote, life saving medical care. So read that we started down this road trying to end her life. Now we are providing life saving care and the irony. Scott, I know there are people screaming in their cars. What about the agony her victim suffered? Fair point. We are not here to discount the severity of that crime nor will I or discount the fact that someone needed to be punished severely for it. The fact of the matter in that case is several people were involved in that death. Ms. Pike was one of them. She was 18 years old at the time. I feel like it is pretty rare today that we would send an 18 year old to death row for a single murder involving multiple people.

38:31I don't know that you would see it. Especially a woman. Especially a woman. And I only bring that up because we suck so bad at the death penalty in the United States. Who gets it? Why do they get it? What are the circumstances of the case? How do we decide that lethal injection was the most humane way to do it? She had asked for a hanging. And I remember when I saw that request thinking, well, they can't just go constructing gallows over. You can't just ask for something that doesn't exist. I mean, Kansas has gallows. I've seen them. Haven't been used in what, a hundred years since just after the clutter, murders were executed. So she didn't have a choice. This is what their state goes with for whatever reason. It didn't work. This is unprecedented. What do we do now? Well, I think it's going to be really hard to give her an execution now.

39:34If she's not in a vegetative state. I was just going to say what if she now requires medical care for the rest of her life? And I think over the course of a lifetime, and knock on wood, you and I are about at the halfway mark, Scott, or north of that. You're very optimistic. My feelings in certain cases have changed. And I do feel like if we can't get this right, then we shouldn't be doing it at all. And there are way too many cases where we get it wrong. And I'm not talking about the botched execution. I'm talking about sending people to death row, like this individual in his seventies this week, turns out DNA doesn't match. He didn't do it. State tried to kill him three times. We don't do this well because it is a human system. It is a human system filled with humans who are flawed, who error, who have political ambitions. Look at the disparity in race, not in this case, but in a whole lot of death penalty

40:38cases. If it is a black person killing a white person versus a white person killing a white person or a black person, like we don't do it well. And if we can't do it well, why are we doing it? So I heard Sam say this out in the newsroom. It is on the text line. Why not go to shore? I hate the term fire. Shore fire ways to execute someone, the guillotine. Oh God. I thought you were going to say firing squad. Maybe the fire is the 14 hundreds? Like no. We're not hanging. We're going to do that in the town square. Of course not. Then we're getting down to like, let's, this is just a barbaric conversation, but it needs to be had. And the idea of killing somebody for a crime is kind of barbaric in and of itself, is it not? Part of me wonders if most Americans like me Scott, I'm still not quite ready to completely give up the notion of the death penalty in a very narrow set of cases. And that would be crimes involving children and mass murder crimes.

41:40Yeah, I want to say something about the crime. There were four then teenagers involved. It was a brutal horrifying. That poor girl who died fought for her life and lost. It's tortured. So, you know, I understand the bloodlust in this case. We want something done. The other codifinate by the way, the only male who was there that night was 17 years old at the time. And therefore was not eligible for the death penalty. So he remains in prison for his role in the crime. And again, I bring this up because so many people today are saying, good, I hope it hurt. And I, I do understand that as a mother, you would want vengeance. I cannot imagine the rage in the hurt. You would want vengeance. The mother of the victim was sitting in that room and had to watch what she calls, quote, a mess that the failed execution was quote a mess.

42:45You had mentioned during a break, Scott. She is furious. Furious why? Because Christopher Pike did not die because Christopher Pike is still alive at a hospital. She wanted Christopher Pike to die and that didn't happen. And there were a number of reporters are actually at least two or three reporters who witnessed this and they all kick one, one female reporter came out and remember and said, I covered all of the Tennessee executions last year and most of them this year. She's on the execution beat. I, I, apparently yes. And I have never seen anything like this. By the way, this is not the first execution Tennessee has botched this year alone. They tried to execute a man by the name of Tony Carruthers. Tony Carruthers convicted of kidnapping and killing three people in 1994. But on the second IV that they were trying to give him, they couldn't find a vein.

43:45And so I don't know what's to become of Tony Carruthers, but he, he's still on death row, but doesn't have an execution date. And after last night probably won't get one for a while. Are we the only developed country that still meets out this punishment? Sam would you be so kind as to look that up? I'll check it out. Obviously, you know, Saudi Arabia does it. Right, but do we want to be in that? Yes and no. I mean, for Johnny Robinson, yeah. Okay. For a BTK who also killed children. I keep going back to the children that if you are child, God forbid, think of the Elizabeth smart cases of the world was kidnapped the worst of the worst things done to that child and then murdered. I think 90% of Americans would say, look, even with my personal thoughts about the death penalty, there are certain cases where there, it's not doing anyone any favors that

44:45this person is still here. That's where I struggle. If we could just narrow it down to the mass shooters and the, you know, child abductors and kidnappers of the world, I think I would feel better about it when you look at, and I'm not again, it makes me sound like I'm diminishing the one person murdered another person. But sometimes you see a gas station robbery gone wrong and someone is shot and killed. That's a death penalty case. But then over here, how many gas station clerks are shot and killed every year? Those aren't. And it's just, there's no uniformity which to me opens the door for abuse. Around 50 countries still have capital punishment on the books, China, most of the Middle East, most of South Asia. In the Americas, the United States is the only country that has it. What about your emotions of Africa? The only country in Europe is Belarus. I didn't think anyone here was to lose.

45:45Over 110 countries have fully abolished the death penalty for all crimes. A lawyer for the death row inmate said she is in critical condition, but is still alive. And that was a seven minutes ago update from the New York Times. But is she conscious? How do you survive this? I don't know. Scott, I don't know. And, you know, Sam reminded us during the break, and you handed this as well. Just how brutal this killing was of this. It was over rumors that the other, the victim in this case liked the boy or was trying to creep in on their relationship. And Christopher Pike and the others tortured this young lady beat her with a piece of asphalt to death and then carved a pentagram in her chest. And Christopher Pike kept a piece of this young lady's skull to show to people.

46:50I want to quote here from her mother, the victim's mother, Ms. Slammer, who you said is furious. And you certainly can understand that. Quote, nobody remembers Colleen. She told the New York Times of her daughter last month. What has happened in the last 24 hours only makes that worse for this family. Because everyone today is talking about what happened to Ms. Pike and we should be having that conversation. The other thing with the death penalty, Scott, this was a crime that happened 30 years ago. 31. So the families are then the stays and the appeals and the real damage to me that is done to the families. It is so rare that you have a Timothy McVey type of, and that was federal. So there are some differences where he just says I wave all of my appeals, kill me. It just doesn't happen that way. It doesn't. But see, and that is why I do still think that the death penalty is an effective punishment in certain cases.

47:56And I'm with you. I don't know if I was on that jury in 1995 or 96 whenever she went to the killing occurred in 1995. I don't know when she went to trial. I don't know that I could say yes on the death penalty for an 18 year old girl. Let's be honest. Let's be honest, Scott, 18 years old. But for people like Timothy McVey or he's a bad example because he wanted to die. But others who are on death row who fight tooth and nail to have that execution state so they can serve life in prison without parole. That tells me that they are filled with fear and I'm okay with that about the prospect of dying. If she does regain consciousness, if she isn't already, and she is sent back to the penitentiary, what do you do with her then? Just let her sit in the cell for the rest of her life. Or do you set a new execution? This is unprecedented in US history.

48:57What do you do? Scott, I don't know. What? It doesn't change the outcome and now we're just delaying this for the victim's family. This is a mess from A to Z. I don't know how you fix it. Why is it on the taxpayer to then pay for the life of an individual who committed a heinous crime for the rest of their life? Say we remove the death penalty. I'm not speaking for or against it, but we have no plethora of tax dollars in this country. We're constantly looking for more because we spend it in ways that some people may or may not agree with. But now I have to pay for your life because you killed somebody and medical care if she needs it for the rest of her life. What if she is in a vegetative state? I mean, she won't live much longer probably, but we don't know that. You can't then return her to the hospital or to the prison. You would have to keep her in a hospital. There's no way. Prison's not equipped to deal with this. No. And nor should they. If she is in a vegetative state, what do you do with her?

50:00I mean, do you take her off life support and call that the execution? That's the world we're in right now because of what happened last night in Tennessee. Do we say well, we're going to follow through and she was given the death penalty. We kind of screwed it up the first time and we kind of screwed it up the second time, but she's on life support and she's not supposed to be living. So let's take her off life support and she will die. There's some more reporting on this on Twitter, which I've largely abandoned, but in a case like this, this is where you go for information. Even though her heart did not stop, she cannot reliably breathe on her own right now due to the massive doses of central nervous system depressants. She is actively on mechanical life support of ventilator. The clinical reality they write is a holding pattern. This says doctors at Vanderbilt Medical Center took her to Vanderbilt apparently are stabilizing

51:05her vitals mechanically while her liver and kidneys work to metabolize the toxins in her body. No official neurological status such as brain death can be verified by the state until all of those chemicals completely clear out of her system over the next several days. The medical limbo continues. And again, what do you do if she's in a vegetative state? I mean, how long is it going to take to get all of that? I said several days of that story, didn't I? And then you can do some sort of cognitive testing on her to see if she's there or not. I'll tell you this, this was an adult crime for which there should have been an adult punishment. But the video in court of them leading her away after she has sentenced to death. She screams back. I love you. I love you. In the 1980s, what is she described that's got what is she wearing? Look in her hair. What? I don't know what the she's wearing a scrunchie.

52:06No, and again, we all the girls wore them. She literally looks like every. She to me looks like a child who committed a very adult crime, but she wasn't adult for which there should be consequences. I'm confused. Wasn't the goal for her to die, but it's not a pleasant going out anyway. We've heard accounts of it. It's not that's not what we're talking like she's not dead. Yes, the goal was for her to die. Tennessee couldn't get it done. What do you do now? Well, here's the problem. She does have constitutional rights. She does. That's true. You can hate her and you can hate the crime and all of those things, but they can't just go in and put a pillow over her face. But in sort of a morbid Google search just now, I looked up the methods of execution state by state most go with lethal injection. Some have firing squad like Idaho, Mississippi, Oklahoma, South Carolina. You talk that is a secondary option.

53:09Being is allowed in New Hampshire and Delaware. No where in here. Do I find a state that is legalized pulling life support? And that is the problem. You cannot take her off life support even if she is until or unless I guess she's declared brain dead. Which we're not going to know until all of those chemicals are out of her system. If it doesn't wreck her liver first. These questions about the death penalty just keep coming. Back at WWL in New Orleans, Scoot shared his own thoughts about the subject. So you know, this is not an angel. This is not a choir girl. This is not some girl who, you know, is a nice person. She's a, you know, she's a vicious, you know what? But I don't know.

54:09I just, I have to tell you that I have very ambivalent feelings about the death penalty. Man, I understand on a passionate level that some people just deserve it. And that the death penalty is, is too good for them because of what they put somebody through. But there's another part of me as a human being that the, you know, the accidental or even the premeditated death of somebody. Murders one thing when somebody commits murder. But for a civilized society to, to, to execute somebody through a calculated process is something that bothers me. So I'm not totally against the death penalty. I'm ambivalent about the death penalty. And I'm telling you, man, if it were, if it were somebody in my family, I would want

55:10the person dead. But when I step back and look at it, I have a little bit of a problem. And this is one area where I agree with the Catholic Church. It's difficult to justify one human taking the life in a calculated manner of another human. Now, you know, we can argue that the person who committed murder, they did that in a very calculated manner. I get that. But they're the sequence. You know, they're the disturbed ones. They're the criminals. We're not, we're not the criminals. And so for us, not being the criminals, I think it's difficult sometimes for me as a person who is part of a civilized society to think about the calculated taking of another human life. And so, you know, I'm torn on this, but I'm just, I'm kind of fascinated with this, this idea that this execution did not work. And it seems like there are so many things that can be used to kill people that I don't

56:13know why this is such a difficult process. You know, why have we had arguments over, well, what should the lethal injection be? You know, I think we all know and we've all read and heard about how, you know, you just, you just give somebody too much morphine and they just, they just drift away. They just die. I mean, if you've ever been on morphine being in the hospital or something, I mean, it's a state of, of calm ecstasy. I mean, you're just, you know, you're just in this calm state. Well, if you give somebody too much morphine, they die. How many times do you and I hear on the news that somebody died from an overdose of fentanyl? Well, when I was hit by the motorcycle, I was on fentanyl. It was under a controlled situation. I was kind of dosing in and out, but, you know, I mean, that would not have been, if I had to go, that would not have been a bad way to go if somebody had to, to, you know, to kill me, just give me a little extra fentanyl.

57:17I mean, you just kind of go to sleep. So I don't know why. It's so difficult for these executors and for our system to figure out how to kill people. Penta Barbital is a barbituite. It's been used to treat insomnia and as a pre- and aesthetic before surgery. It works by slowing down the nervous system. As of right now, it's not exactly clear why the drug didn't work on pike. However, the BBC noted that her legal team filed a lawsuit in January about Tennessee's legal injection protocol. The suit mentioned that pike has a condition called thrombocytopenia, which can make people have small veins that make needle insertion difficult. In St. Louis, the team at the Dave Glover Show, including Glover, Rachel Zimmerman and Kevin Wheeler, out of Odyssey Station KMOX, talked about other execution methods in the

58:17wake of the news about pike. We have the firing squad. We know how to put people under general anesthetic, like when Rachel was out with her surgery, like most of us have been out. Let them out. We're good at anesthesia and then use the firing squad done. Done. They're gone. There's no mess up or at least there's a lot less chance of a mess up. But how the hell do you use stale, lethal drugs? Come on. I've heard of this being an issue before because the drugs do have a shelf life and there's just not that many executions. Right. I mean, there's absolutely no excuse for not like giving a once over on the box. Yeah. Who didn't check the expiration date? I don't pour a glass of milk without checking the expiration date. It isn't clear if pike's injections in particular were expired, but according to the death

59:22penalty information center, drug shortages and actions by pharmaceutical manufacturers have made it more difficult for prisons to obtain the drugs used in lethal injections. The Dave Glover Show team also talked to attorney Brad Young about the case. With this botched execution and what you think of that and what happens now and is it some sort of double jeopardy, like what do you think? Well, there's two sides to it. One is the human side and one's the legal side, right? So on the human side, anyone with any degree of empathy has to feel sorry for this woman. Yes, she's a convicted murderer. Yes, she was sentenced to death. Yes, both the Tennessee Supreme Court and the US Supreme Court denied her stay of execution. But having said that, you don't wish this to happen to anyone. If you have any degree of empathy, it's not revenge. That's not what the point of executions are.

1:00:22So yeah, I have empathy for it. Now let's switch to the legal side. There are several issues here. One is whether this constitutes cruel and unusual punishment to try to execute her again. Number one, number two, is it double jeopardy? As you mentioned under the constitution, you can't convict someone of the same crime twice. Does this constitute double jeopardy? Both of those issues were resolved by the US Supreme Court back in 1947 in a very similar situation. There was an attempted execution. It didn't work. The state is in this instance, it was Louisiana teed it up for another execution. It went up to Supreme Court. They answered both of those questions. And number one, it's not cruel and unusual punishment. On its face, number two, it's not double jeopardy. But let's look at the first issue briefly. And that is you can still prove it's cruel and unusual punishment. But you'd have to show that the method, I think it was Pinto Barbital, which was used

1:01:27in this case in Tennessee, whether there was proof that she was suffering, it was painful. If you've got evidence of that from affidavits of the witnesses or an affidavit from herself, then you might have an argument that using the same type of execution again would be cruel and unusual punishment. Then you'd have to fall back on a different way of execution. For example, Utah now is authorized, the firing squad again, because that's already been clear to being cruel and unusual. So there's several options here, but that's the legal landscape on it. Thoughts guys anyone? All makes sense. It's stupid. The whole thing is stupid. And I wonder, Brad, I asked this separately, even if this doesn't have any change in what her sentence is, is there a lawsuit possible here? I don't see it as possible, a lawsuit. I really don't.

1:02:28Again, unless you could prove that the officials knew or should have known that this type of execution style would likely result in what happened and that she suffered damages. But her damages would be very short, right? Because the damages would be kind of low. If you're limited, you're going to be executed again and not too distant future. So even if it was technically possible, the real issue is how much work are damaged. That's a good point, yeah. So Brad, there's the human and the legal, but there's also the practical, what's your guess? Do you think that Tennessee, because I'm sure there's going to be a giant protest, much bigger than last night if they try to do it again? Do you think the agency is going to go, yeah, no, let's just put her back in jail? No, I think they're going to go through with the execution. Otherwise at this point, and it wouldn't happen until next year, because you're going to spend the next two months with the most enormous set of investigations, right? You're going to have lawyers investigating it.

1:03:30You're going to have doctors investigating it. This is going to be a big deal because a lot rides on whether a state can or cannot proceed with executions. So at the end of the day, after they spend a lot of money on lawyers, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, according to my wife, jokes aside, yeah, they're going to spend a lot of money at the end of the day. I think they're going to go through with it. But Dave, you raised another issue here, and that is the purpose of executions. Me, listen, I'm conservative. I've always been in favor of executions by the states, but it raises a question because the purpose of an execution is only twofold. Number one, it provides a just punishment for the act that was committed. And number two, it provides a disincentive for others to commit the crime. But if someone's on death row for 20 years, does it really fulfill either one of those purposes? And I got to tell you, morally, I struggle with that because if someone's on death row

1:04:30for 20 years, is that really just punishment? No. Because they had to wait 20 years to have it. And number two, is there any criminal in this country going to say, well, I better not pull this trigger because I may get the death penalty in 20 or 30 years from now. And that doesn't create any logical disincentive. So it's really an intellectual conundrum here on that point. Yeah, makes sense. You always make sense. Marty Griffin out of Odyssey Station KDKA in Pittsburgh also discussed the case with the legal expert, Bill Diffender for of Diffender for Law, but first he weighed in with his own view of the death penalty. When I was in Texas, and this is Hellman, 30 years ago, they were executing like 30 people a year. It was sometimes more. In America, in a year they'd execute well over 100. Now 18 to 20 in a year.

1:05:34And in the next five years, it would be gone completely. Conversely, most Americans support the death penalty. I can't stand it because it's stupid. It doesn't exist in Pennsylvania. We spend tens of millions of dollars because D.A.'s want to look like bad asses. Knowing that the man they send to death row will never be executed ever. Ever. Last guy executed in Pennsylvania was like 40 years ago and he volunteered. He dismissed all of his appeals. It costs 10X. 10X to keep a guy in death row versus general population. For all those reasons, it shouldn't exist. And I am disgusted. Disgusted. Second. By what happened in Tennessee. Griffin is right. According to Pew Research Center polling released this August 66% of Americans favor the

1:06:40death penalty for people convicted of murder. Some people, of 45 executions last year, high since 2009. It's legal in 27 states and Pennsylvania, but it's on hold here. This is disgusting. No one knows this better than Bill Diffender for. Good morning, sir. Good morning, Marty. You have had death row case. You hate them under normal circumstances. You find them to be ridiculous, don't you, sir? I have three pending right now. Believe it or not, three pending death penalty. Two in Washington County, one here in the United Kingdom, that I'm defending that are still open. I mean, our point, you and I talked about this months ago, or maybe a year ago. If you're pro-death penalty or anti-death penalty, no one can disagree with the reality of the

1:07:42situation in Pennsylvania where nobody's put the death. So why are we going through with this? Why are they seeking it? Richard Blomham, he sent him a communication 25 years ago. He was convicted and sentenced to death. He'll never be put to death. He's got mental illness. I mean, it's just not going to happen. And we have spent millions of dollars. I say this. A person convicted of first degree murder in Pennsylvania is going to die in jail. It's just a matter of when. So if you, and by the way, they've got rid of death's rub. It used to be when you're on death rub. You are in that 12 by 12, 23 hours a day, you get one hour out, you got a TV, you're solitary. Now, they've been because of cruel and unusual punishment, that type of thing, which, you know, they're out now more in general population. So in essence, they're serving life. And we're spending millions of dollars. Richard Blomhamer still has a case alive in federal and federal court.

1:08:46It's unbelievable. Hey, hey, damn. Richard Bloski was setting up computer dates from his cell. Yeah. You know what? Yeah, I could go. I did Billy Kido, another one of mine, but he was first degree. He was on a dating side too. It's just, you know, unbelievable. And that doesn't even start to look at what the hell happened in Tennessee. Disgusting, sir. Disgusting. There's no question that's cruel and unusual. They're going to commute it. But the point, I mean, she's in critical condition. Yeah. I mean, what condition is she a brain dam? You know, Marty, I just had surgery and I have a tough time. They have a tough time finding my veins three times. They tried some bleeding. And then the anesthesiologist came in with a thinner needle and he found it. But my point, he knew he had it. I don't understand how this happens. You know, I really don't. But anyway, it's atrocious. It is atrocious and it's certainly going to strengthen the argument to abolish it. And I will tell you, and I just want to tell you listeners, again, I understand people,

1:09:48especially the victims, wanting, which are being wanting, revenge, wanting. I totally understand that. But when you match that with the reality, I honestly think if I broke it down and spoke with them, that everyone would agree, you know, let's just go for life. It costs 10x. Yeah, to have these idiots on death from 10x, brother. 25 years ago, Richard Blanhamer was convicted. There's still spending money on his appeals. Still spending money on his appeals. He says, send you notes. He says you notes. I mean, yeah, yeah, I mean, that's, that's, but that's all of them. That's all the people. I mean, what, I don't blame them. I mean, you can't fall down. You can't fault their lawyers. I mean, they're doing their jobs. But, you know, it's a, what I'm saying is telling that to people, and there's a moratorium, Marty, and I don't see that moratorium being lifted. I mean, that moratorium was 20, 2015. In seventh, since 1976, when the death penalty was reinstated in Pennsylvania,

1:10:50three people have been put to death. Three. What are we doing? What the hell are they doing in Tennessee? These morons couldn't kill her. Now they're trying to save her. These idiots. Come on. Now he's in the hospital. No, I'll think about the critical care. Think about that expense, the taxpayers. So, Jeff, let's say they save her life to kill her again, sir. Is that the plan? I strongly believe so the death penalty will, will be, will be commuted. That her lawyers will be successful. I think she's going to be an, as vegetable. I mean, I, you know, who knows? It's unbelievable, but I think they have a very strong argument. They have that, that's not only commuted. Morons. Yeah. Hey, hey, Jeff. Yeah. Do you do this for their ego? I'm a big man. Yes. I'm sending him to the death row. Don't they, sir? It's their ego. Yeah. Well, it's, you know, it's ego that, I mean, they feel that, you know, of the work, by the

1:11:53way, and I totally challenge this in Washington, PA, because I have a shaken baby case. That is not, I truly believe, Marty. And I mean, it's from, from my soul, my clients, and it's, and it's, now, this is supposed to be the worst of the worst when you seek the death penalty. So that's not even being pursued in some cases. In Allegheny, I'm confident that it is. But, but even with that, you're, you're, you're right. That, you know, a lot of it is political, a lot of it is, you know, what, what have people to say? But, you know, in an update to the Pike case this weekend, Tennessee Department of Correction Commissioner Frank Strata announced that he's resigning. Thank you so much for listening to this true crime roundup from the on deadline podcast. This episode was written and produced by me, Lauren Berry, special thanks to WWJ News Radio

1:12:54in Detroit, KYW News Radio in Philadelphia, KCBS Radio in the Bay Area, a new morning out of WBN in Buffalo, the Dana and Parks Show out of KMBZ in Kansas City, scooped out of WWL in New Orleans, the Dave Glover Show out of KMOX in St. Louis, and Marty Griffin out of KDKA in Pittsburgh. You can find all of these programs on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can find these true crime roundups by subscribing to the on deadline podcast, the Who Killed Strawberry Podcast, or the Bitter Academia Podcast on the Odyssey app or wherever you find your podcasts. Outdated Automation doesn't have to slow you down.

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