True Crime Catch Up - October 2026

0:00This episode starts in just a moment. A question for you first. You convicted of stealing the world's largest uncut diamond, you protest your innocence, but served three years in jail. On release, do you choose the quiet life, or do you embark on an audacious life of crime? Well David Knight chose the latter, and you can hear all about his extraordinary capers in the new series, Roth Diamond. No spoilers here, but it ends in a famous heist that only a handful of people in the world knew he was responsible for, until now. So once this episode is finished, get stuck into the latest series from the Always True Crime Network. Search for Roth Diamond, and line it up to play next. Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down, instead of firing off that text, you say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life.

1:03That's what growing feels like, and that's exactly what growth therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average $21 with insurance, and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments, you just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the US, offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability, and you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as $0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash a cast. That's growtherapy.com slash a cast. Growtherapy.com slash a cast. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Black Friday is coming. Last year, businesses on Shopify made billions in sales. This holiday

2:07season, you could be one of them. If you start now, Shopify helps you launch fast, so you can design your site and start selling before the biggest shopping days of the year. What are you waiting for? Tis the season to start selling. Start for free at Shopify.com. Hello everyone, welcome to a refreshed episode of the True Crime Catch-Up. This is an old collaboration style format with myself, Stuart Blues of British Murders, and with me, the good, hairless fellow of Mr. Adam Lloyd from UK True Crime. How does it feel to be doing this again, Adam? Well, you know, sure. When our ACIS were back, obviously this was the next logical reunion, wasn't it? It was. I don't think the tickets to SEALs would sell out as quick or have dynamic pricing on ticket master, but, you know, for anyone who has believed under a rock, or to be honest, it's probably most people in the world. Adam and I did this joint podcast and we haven't had our own feed once upon a time and we did a weekly meet up and we

3:12just chat about what was in the news I would do. Not a deep dive, maybe a medium or a shallow dive on a case, but it got to the point where after six months, we just wanted to hire it. But we decided to bring it back now on a monthly basis and we're going to put it on at both of our respective podcasts. So maybe you want to listen to one of us, aren't we? But in this series now, this new revamped TrueCram catch up 2.0, we're going to pick some random topics and discuss some stuff. This one being, we're going to each bring to the table some cases that we can't stop thinking about that we've already covered on our podcast. Now, these aren't any more important or noteworthy than the others we've covered between us. Oh, almost a thousand cases between the rest. Yeah, which is really depressing. So it doesn't mean these are more worthy of coverage. It's just ones that subjectively we can't stop thinking about and we'll explain the reasons why as well as I hope I know what I've covered and prepared. I'm hoping Adam as well is going

4:17to cover a little bit of the summary of each story because you can't expect to soon all these off by heart because I certainly got it. Sure, Clay asked it next month. You made the introduction a bit longer. I don't think it's been long enough. I just don't have it too many times. I mean, I could go on for 12. You're in charge of editing, so just cut me down. Alright, then let me bring me your first story then. Okay, so my first case is when I covered relatively recently. It's the murder of Scott Pritchard. So Scott was 19. He lived in Sunderland. He was recovering from a broken foot. He was using crutches when he was attacked outside his home in January 2004. He was struck over the head with baseball baton. He suffered the most catastrophic head injuries. There was actually just outside his back door. He was taken to hospital, but he died from those injuries. And what really intrigued me about this case is what happened afterwards. The investigation was huge, but despite that, the murder remained unsolved for about 14 years. And actually, something we seen a few cases, one of the most distressing aspects of the family was Scott's own dad

5:22became a suspect. And he spent 16 weeks on the remind before the case against him was that is embarrassingly bad, that really, really poor. So you got this poor family living with the murder of their son. And then the dad is being accused having killed him. So you know what happens to the families of those suspected? Everyone's pointing and everyone even is released. People say, no, yeah, everybody must have done it. That's what happens, isn't it? It still happens today. So they couldn't even return home to the family home. They get this. 2018. Completely out of the blue, the person responsible walked into a police station. This was Karen Tundmore, who would be in a children's football coach. She went to a police station, confessed to killing Scott. She said she couldn't live with the guilty anymore. She said she had attacked Scott with a baseball bat, following a dispute over money. She paid a guilty smurder, sentenced to life in prison, 17 and a half years. Now, there's so many things about the case. Firstly, somebody just actually walking in and confessing it does happen, doesn't it? In some cases, it's rare. But to me, this case

6:25stuck with me more because a good example, I think of what an unsolved murder does to a family. The murder happened just in moments, right? But the consequences went on for years. This ripple of murder we talked about. So it's an awful lot more to this case than just the actual murder itself. A bit like the Ed Grailampur poem of the Telltale Heart. You know that one, Adam? Is that Pamayas? Did you say it, or? Oh, I heard it, Pamayas, the poet. No, no, no, no. Tell me some more. I think the gist of the story is that I think someone kills someone and buries them under the floorboard. And the police come round and ask him questions. And the guilt inside this person is there can sort of hear the dead body's heartbeat and under the floorboards. No one else can to the point where they then confess to the killing. I think I've only seen it spoofed in the simpsons. But I think that's the general just of the story. But it's playing on that guilt, isn't it? It's interesting that after so long as well. It doesn't it, not that you feel sympathy for her, but it makes you wonder

7:32what her life was like for that period. Did it get progressively worse? Has she constantly felt that guilt for all those years? It's really hard to know. I mean, she had this story about Shazoo, another man when the attack took place, but this man couldn't be traced. So that sounds dodgy in itself to me. But your point there about poets is same in literature about guilt. It's same even like Matt Beth, isn't it? So Matt Beth, murders and then that guilt come back to haunt it. So it's a common thing, but it's still relatively rare. I think people to actually come forward and actually give themselves up. I wish more people would do it, don't you? Just to put the families out there misery. Yeah. And most people even when the evidence is clear, they were still pleading not guilty. The one that always gets me in my cases are about people say that some mystery man came in and did it. Then this mystery man can't be traced. It's just bizarre. It's the third man. Let's go and see your first case. What if you got? So this one is actually one that's not featured on my

8:32men's feet. I've dug into my poetry on archives. Now on there, I'm supposed to do bonus episodes, monthly admittedly, I'm a bit slack on that at the moment, because they're not going on in in the real world. However, this was one of my early ones. I used to do shorter episodes unlike me talking, which just goes on forever. My missing says I love the sound of my own voice. I can't argue with that. So this is a mini-sword from September, 2020, David McGreever is the perpetrator. Is that name ring about two? I remember this one. I think you had one of these moniker, the beast, something or whatever. So McGreever was a former Royal Navy serviceman. By 1973, he was struggling with alcohol. He'd come estranged from his own family. He moved into the home of his friend, Clive Ralph, and his wife, Doritha, this is in Worcester, and he helped with their kids while Clive was aware working as a truck driver. April 12th, that is 73. The Ralphs returned home to find their 9-month-old daughter, Samantha Inge. She's

9:35taken to hospital the following morning. Doctors know that a possible case of a battered baby, which I think is probably is still a term used. Do you think battered baby? I think it's a child abuse, basically. I think this is a bit of an older generation term battered baby, but you get the gist. Samantha was discharged, ultimately, that's the 9-month-old. The following evening, McGreever was left looking after three children of the couple. So you've got four-year-old Paul, three-year-old Don and Samantha was mentioned while the parents went to work. After having several parents at a local pub, he returns to the house, and as he's alone with the children at some point that night, Samantha began crying, which frustrated McGreever. Now we've spoken off air about the frustration to be an parent. There's nothing more irritating at times than the baby's cry. It's evolved to be at a certain pitch that is unignorable, if that's even a word. So he gets annoyed by this. He proceeds to kill Samantha, and then he kills her siblings, Don and Paul, then attacks

10:40their bodies with a pickaxe, takes them outside, where he impales their bodies on iron railings between neighbouring properties. Parents return home to find this almost like a macabre display. He's found eventually, he admits to what is done, McGreever, he's guilty to off you. Murder's sentenced to lack imprisonment minimum term of 20 years, but it did remain in prison for four to five years. He kept applying for parole, it kept getting rejected. But it was quite a parole in 2018, interestingly, but he had strict licensing conditions, he couldn't go back to Worcester, for example. But it's not just the horrific niche with a murders that makes it difficult to share, it's the fact that these were three young kids. When it's kids, where were parents, it's always my difficult isn't it, and I've got another one about children as well. But it's the, I think it's the grim nature of displaying the bodies afterwards with this one that makes this stick with me. And because this was quite

11:42early on in my podcasting journey, I felt this was a bit too graphic for the men's feed at the time. I don't know if you've ever had that. Have you ever put anything behind the tree on that you think I'm not comfortable sharing this with the general public figures? It's interesting you say that. I don't go into graphic detail, I never go into graphic detail. I mean, I go into the basics, but I wouldn't go any further than you've just gone there. I just, I think it's a fine line and I think if you go too far, it's gratuitous to me. I don't think I'll listen to this. I agree. I mean, again, that's, that's one of the early cases I covered involving children as well and I just thought, but definitely harder to cover when it's children, but again, it I've never heard anything like what he did before or since the I've covered. I'm sure there is. Why can we do it? For just a little bit. It's just temper. I think you just shot few. I've got, I forget the ins and outs because

12:45it's not long ago since I wrote the story, but it's combined alcohol with anyone and decision-making gets impaired. But yeah, it's not impulsive, really. Is it that if you killed someone out of frustration, I'm not going to say I understand that, but you can, what I'm trying to get at is that the fact that he then proceeded to impale all three bodies on railings, which can't have taken a shot amount of time. This is a prolonged bit of nastiness. It's just surrender. I mean, he's a prime, I can't believe he's begun for all to be. I know he always used to discuss on the catch-up about, about bringing back the death penalty, but to me, he's a prime, he's a prime contender, report it back. That penalty. But he's out now, isn't it? And as far as we know, he's not being brought back. He may well be, but then we always used to discuss about you being a big, not disbeliever in the justice system, but you're a big believer of what's the word I'm looking for. Rehabilitation. That's the one. Rehabilitation.

13:47So considering that happening now in 73, modern, half a century ago, would you still say qualified, if he's not done anything since, which if he's in prison now, surely by your own logic, we should allow him to be free. Now, I think there are some crimes that are so horrific, like the one you just said, like the South Pole killer. I don't know how much he rehabilitates himself. You should never be a free person. I'm all for it. Let's go on to my second case, shall we? Now, unfortunately, sure, as you know, we cover a lot of stalking cases, a lot of cases of coercive control. And there's one in particular that's that stuck with me. There's a few that there's one I'm going to talk about today, Molly McLaren. She was just 23. She'd been in this relationship with this guy called Joshua for around seven months after they met on Tinder. But then he got very intense. Molly did the right thing. She ended the relationship, but what followed was a period of stalking and harassment. She turned up places she was, including her gym. They started posting

14:52really nice stuff about on Facebook. Molly did the right thing. She reported his behavior to the police, to her family, to her friends, and he'd been warned to stay away from her. With just two weeks after she ended the relationship, she was sitting in the car in a shopping center in Kent when the approach to her kitchen knife and the attacker in the car sat in more than 75 times. Yeah, she's just 23 years old. 23 years old. But what makes it worse is there were the warning signs before the murder. And Molly had recognized this and reported it to police. So, raises, again, doesn't it? That really important question about, do we recognize the escalation of stalking quickly enough? And it's enough done when somebody says they're frightened or concerned about a next partner. This guy in the end, he was arrested, charged with murder. He admitted man's thoughts on the grounds of the municipality having thought and doesn't it? The jury rejected it, found him guilty less than four hours. Since present 26 years, the judge said he might never be released.

15:55So there's something else on here as well, Stuart, that's really relevant, I think, for a lot of our cases. Social media. So even when the relationship ended, someone can start accessing through your phone and your online accounts. And I think he's set up fake accounts as well as saying, blocking him. He's struck really difficult social media stalking, co-existing, poses so many problems, doesn't it? It does an especially coercive control. That's quite a recent phenomenon, isn't it? I think it years gone by, you've heard of domestic abuse or people used to call it domestic violence, but it's far more deep than just being violent, physically. The coercive control is an interesting one. You hear some of these people and how many wounds they suffer at their perpetrator, at attackers' hands. And you think, at what point do you not think I've done it? Did not remain, like 75 times. I had one of research recently and there were 102 wounds. It's just beyond comprehension. The rise of social media is of course, set a whole new

17:05wave of consequences and issues for people, especially women on there, just exposing themselves or knowing letter these predatory men. A lot of the time, I'm sure it happens the other way also, but most of the time we'll see it. That way. It's just crazy to think that an app, to help people potentially spend the rest of their life together is bringing together two people who Wombel and the Pryzen Wombel end up no longer with. You never know, do you? We've first meet someone. It's been a long time since we met anybody in a romantic sense. You see the affection, it's all going well. And then the rest of the acts start very soon. But it's then so hard to get away from these people because they're so out-control. Yeah, absolutely. Control is what they want. And it's hard to get out, especially if you get love on them and stuff like that. But that's a whole different issue that you're talking about on another episode. You should move on to the next story. Yeah. So this one is from March 7th, 2024, on my podcast, season 12 episode 10. It was the

18:11murder of Jamie Levis. Now it's another child murder. You may see a theme here with the ones that stick with me personally. So Jamie Levis was eight for Manchester. He disappeared on May 5th, not in the night of seven after being grounded by his dad. He was a, he was a lively mischievous lad, bit of a, bit of a scallywag a little bit, you know, but it was very independent considering he was eight and he spent a lot of time out on the streets. So his disappearance initially, a lot of people reckoned that he's seen him. A lot of sightings, I was here, he was there, in his one of his usual haunts, for example, eight is very young. But this is just what he was like in the mid to late 90s. More than 250 sightings of him were actually reported, but only a handful were considered potentially genuine. A bus driver named Darren Vickers eventually came forward and said that Jamie had spent much of the day on his bus. But his own account contending consistencies and police became increasingly suspicious of him. What makes Jamie's case

19:15very disturbing is how Vickers and was seen more often than not actually, more often than you appreciate. He inserted himself into the investigation. He went into the family's lives, put himself right in the middle of it while they were searching for their son. He left his job, spent loads of time with the family, presented himself as someone determined to help bring Jamie home, all the while concealing crucial information about his own contact with Jamie. Now Vickers was eventually arrested and charged with child abduction and in October night in 97, Jamie's partial remains were discovered in woodland near a place called Reddish Vale. DNA confirms that it's a next moment. Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down, instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life.

20:20That's what growing feels like and that's exactly what growth therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works covered by insurance. Sessions average $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments, you just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the US, offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability, and you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as $0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash a cast. That's growtherapy.com slash a cast. Growtherapy.com slash a cast. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

21:20Vickers ended up being tried for Jimi's murder and pound guilty. The prosecution argued that he groomed Jimi before killing him. Evidence included an alleged confession made to a fellow prisoner by Vickers, as well as a written confession that he later retracted again another sort of trope that you see quite often. But it gets unanimously convicted in April 99, life imprisonment, and later at a parole review in 2023, so a few years ago, it concluded it was still not suitable for release. Now with this case, the reason why it sticks in my memory is due to the fact that it's a child that's sort of a given. But for me, this mentally had an effect on me to the point where I didn't cover the murder of a child again until mid-August of that same year. So I covered Jimi's story in March 2024, so I didn't have one till August. What's that? Five months? It really affected me for a couple of weeks. I was really down actually, but I think that was almost

22:27the straw that brought the camel back, if you like, because by that point, I've been going for three, no, four and a bit years, 100 plus episodes. And I think it was just the case of it hit me. All the previous research and episodes, none of which I have anything to do with. I didn't know these people, but still researching this stuff day in, day out, it can affect you if you let it. And I think I just reached a breaking point, then, which is why I remember this one specific not necessarily the details of the case, but I'll always remember Jim's name and the effect that case had on me, which was a personal thing. But it really got me down. Have you ever had a case like that or a situation where you've really just started? Do you know what? Is this still for me? Oh, all the time. All the time I have it. But then it has to come back, doesn't it? It's why we started our podcast. And why do we start our podcast? Well, to become multi-millionaires,

23:28firstly, secondly, it's to tell the stories, isn't it? So tell the stories aren't told enough. Yeah, but yeah, I remember that one in particular, it was just awesome. That was what a couple of years ago now still think about it. It's not bad. Let's go into my third case. So this case was how I met Mike for murder, my office, the very first time. On a canal, but in a sort of the river somewhere, we were two ball burn at different ends of the country, and then suddenly we became as one. So I can't remember this was. I think I covered it in about 1987. It was a long time ago. But it's a case that I actually recovered from my YouTube channel, just this last week, because I've been wanting to a long time. I wonder if you recall it. It's the murder of David Morley. Do you remember this texture? So another one of them where it rings a bell. I'm so I think for self-preservation, my memory doesn't allow me to store details of these cases, but go on, I'm sure it all come back. It's really interesting, because David Morley had been a bar person working behind the bar at the

24:32Abnormal Duncan pub in Soho. And he was there that night that Copeland, David Copeland tried to lower up the nail bomb and three people lost their lives, so there were seven people were injured. David was behind the bar, but miraculously he escaped. He was he was a red-sweet unhurt. And after that, he spent a lot of time doing his own issues, of course, he PTSD, I imagine, lots of flashbacks. It was difficult for him in the end. He moved on, he got a job in another pub. And then in 2004, it was October 2004, he was sitting by the London Eye on the South Bank of London. Just sitting there, him and his friend had been out the night, they were sitting just with some cider chatting, relaxing having a good time. And this group came out in this group of youths, I think there were six of them. And said, look, we're doing the happy sapping. We want to make a documentary. Are you okay for us to do that? Yeah, hence this one. Yeah, but what they did, of course, went out of the show and while one of them

25:34was going to Chelsea, he was 14, sure as filming it, these people sat upon David and he died from his injuries. He died from his injuries. And what was really upsetting about that? One, he was just 37, two, he'd just been a survivor of a major terrorist attack. And then the South Banker, nearly hours of the morning, it's busy, there's people wandering around, but there's two things that really got me about it. Firstly, we hear this lot on our podcast. The parents were called and told to go down to Thomas Austin, London, but by their time they got there, it was too late. Unfortunately, I seem to hear that so many times now, but they get there too late. And the second point about it was this gang, this gang had gone out purely to attack people. So, somebody made a really good point that I copied from my YouTube video. They said, oh, it's easy to call it a random attack, but it wasn't a random attack. It was a premeditated attack. The anything random about it was the victims of a quite an interesting distinction. And so David lost his life there and killed by these

26:38young children. It just might have been something in another case I covered a recent, a coronadensical twin that was murdered, Simon Dawson back in 1998. And what his brother said to me is the two people that killed him was 16 and 19. And one thing that Nick said to me is he's got a nick. He's completely, brother had been killed by two kids. But this, that they've been more like cases, so, so shocking. Imagine it surviving that terrorist bomb. Five years later, murdered just again, an ordinary night out sitting on the South Bank busy place, lots of people, shocking story. And how did that bring you and Mike together? Yeah, so Mike was covering, I think, the wider case of the Admiral Duncan Pub. And he saw me doing David Morley. And he got in contact and so we started chatting. So that must have been what, eight, seven or eight years ago? Well, what a nice story.

27:38At the end of it, very tragic and horrible one. Yeah, and that's the thing sometimes of our cases, isn't it? Where you say, if you very careful about our language, then we discuss this on the time, then it's a terrible case. Of course, it's a terrible case. But yeah, it's been good to, to me, Mike and of course, Mike now has moved away from London. And he's on his travels around the country, isn't he? So I understand. So my, my third and final case is quite a recent one. I know that you've covered this because we spoke about it on the phone. And I did it. It's the the Chohan family murders. I covered this as recently as the 13th of September, a couple of weeks ago at this point. It's episode 275 in my catalog about half of Adam's numbers, but I'll be going half as long. So the Chohan family, this is a very interesting case, but it's a massive loss of life for an entire family being wiped out. But there's aspects of it that you just don't hear that often, which is why it's ditched with me and I've covered it recently, which helps. So they disappeared from their home in

28:38Heston, which is in West London. This was in February 2003. Amar Jits, Chohan was a successful business money, had his own company called Seba Fritt. They were a college business business place near Heathrow Airport. It lived with his wife, Nancy, she was 25. They had two young sons, Devinda and Rabindra. I think Max, they were maybe three years old. I think one of them was maybe 18 months. It varies from softer source. And then Nancy's mum, I believe, lived with them also Charan Jits, Chohan. So the entire family vanishes in February 2003. Initially, there were suggestions that Amar Jits, who was from India originally, had come to the UK to sort of not the American dream, but the equivalent is for the UK. And it done that. It was a multi-millionaire this guy, because he built this business from scratch. There were suggestions that he'd take this family and returned to India, because he was sick of life in the UK. A letter was supposedly written by him sent from Calais in France, which the closest route to Europe from South

29:42Rela obviously can go from whole to Netherlands, but you can go from Dover to France and Calais, the first part of coal. He used to go there to get cheap wine back in the day on the booze cruise. You remember those, don't you? I'm sure you've been on a few of those. So to get this letter, supposedly written by Amar Jits from Calais, but detectives quickly said, we think it's a forgery. Reason being, it was a type letter and Amar Jits was the sort of person who would handwrite letters always. So that was a red flag. Secondly, the family had disappeared, but and the passports had gone, but the left stuff behind, like there were clothes in the washing machine, the left feeding bottles for the baby, and the kids' toys were left at home. Any parent knows that the latter, especially it is just to know, no, no, you're not going to leave it out there. It became a murder investigation when Amar Jits body was discovered in the sea of Farnmer in April 2003. So a couple of months after the family disappeared. Nancy's body was then found off Paul Bay, a few months later, I think that was July of the same year, and Charan Jits body

30:46was recovered off the sea of the Isla White, the following year 2004. Sidelay the body of the two boys, Divinda and Ravinda have never been found to this date, and there were actually murmurings of them having previously been buried on a farm before they were then doggled, excavated, if you like, crudeless, and then dumped, at sea, in a boat that was hired specifically for the job. And it were these three people involved. One of them had worked for the company, he was the ringleader Kenneth Reagan, and his partner in crime, William Hornseh, they were the two main people involved. There was a third man Peter Reese who became involved with it, and the argument was that the entire family had been murdered as part of an attempt to take control of Amar Jits business so that Reagan could use it as a front for what would really be his harrowing throag empire. He wanted to be a kingpin, and he was going to land a money through what was a successful and legitimate business, but there were some dealings of a little bit of dodgingness with the company,

31:48Amar Jits had been done for tax fraud or a version one of the two back in the late 90s, so it wasn't all squeaky clean. Another interesting part about this case is if it couldn't get more interesting, is the fact that the trial lasted eight months, more than half a year, the trial lasted. It became one of the longest and most expensive murder trials in the history of not just English cards, but the old barely caught itself as well. Reagan and Hornseh were convicted of all five murders, even though two of the bodies weren't found. They actually received whole life orders, which is pretty rare, especially in this day and age, and Reese was convicted of Amar Jits murder. He received 23 years as a minimum term, and even though they all appealed their cases were all appealed, their convictions were appealed. I just think that one is such a far-fetched story. Something that you would see in a crime fiction novel in an SB&R's movie, you've got so many different aspects there, but of course the underlying themes of a whole family was wiped out there,

32:51there's some selfish men who wanted to run a drug empire through a business. They hadn't even built the sort of key quarter I like to say from this is that Reagan had actually discussed buying the company from Amar Jits, he was up and disselling it, but he couldn't afford to buy it, so instead he decided to steal it. One thing that sticks in my mind about this case, and I remember it very well because like you say it's so extraordinary, it's the brother. The brother didn't he? The brother. Yes, absolutely. He came over to the UK and when he went to the house, he saw his mum's prayer book and he said my mum would not go anywhere about her prayer book, and if he hadn't pushed the police to investigate, they could have got away with this, right? Yeah, so he came from New Zealand. He used to speak to Nancy's sister every single day, all it took was one missed phone call, and he knew, like you say with his mum on the prayer book, he knew that something was wrong. No one was interested, so he flew from New Zealand so far, 10,000 miles plus,

33:57all the way to check the house out, and if it wasn't for him, as you say, who knows? And it's difficult for the police, right? Because all the facts seem to add up to the family just there. Yeah, exactly. You know, had the bodies not washed upon the sea, who knows? Because you know, the boys' bodies haven't, what happened to them? It doesn't bear thinking about, but the surmanate, if what's but some maybe, it could have happened with this thing. But thankfully, people are, if you can take any positive action that story, they are now, are they belong, which is in prison? Two of them, until they die. Yeah, absolutely. Great story. So we need to end Adam here with our patented animal story. I think we've actually got one each year that we couldn't end an episode without this. We know this is why people really listen. It's like at first, as well as the best. Go on them. Best podcast, best audible story, best haircut. Oh, well, not the best beard. So, mom's here to please stock. He apparently helps

35:00investigators in the murder of 30-year-old, obviously, Cooca in North London. So Cooca is a terrible crime and was stabbed to a raid on his flat by men looking for drugs and money. So police then brought him onto the search for property and the dog found £8,000 in cash hidden inside the headboard of a bed. Money, the attackers had failed to find. And that became important in the prosecution. Five member ultimately convicted of offenses, collecting killing, needed murder, manslaughter and conspiracy to rob. But the key thing here is that five men spent hours ransacking the place that came for £8,000, couldn't find it. Then, onto the police dog, turned up and found it in about five minutes. Dogs, you can't go wrong with dogs. You can't go wrong with dogs. And then, as luck would have it, my story is also about a dog. Yeah, believe it or not, we're both dog owners, Adam and I. Very different size dogs. He's gone for the massive one because he needs his ego inflate and mind a dead time now and he'd bring it down a peg. So, we have an animal story here from

36:01the US. This is a dog called Blue. So, he's from Oregon, the Pacific Midwest sub-elite in America. That's what online told me. Anyway, so he quite literally went looking for help when his owner needed it the most. This is from June 2nd, 2024. So, Brandon Garrett was driving along a remote forest road with his four dogs and he lost control of his truck and he crashed down a steep ravine. Brandon and the dogs survived the crash. You'll be happy to know, but the terrain was so difficult, it'd get in help, it wasn't going to be easier. Somehow, this dog Blue, who the article suggests is likely a pitful mix of some kind, based on what we know the other dogs breeds were. He managed to escape the wreck and he sets off into the night, takes off like a shot. He travels almost four miles until he reached the campsite where Brandon's family were there waiting, worried because he hadn't come home. Blue then leads the family back towards the crash site. So, he's not only found his way back there, but he's gone back to the campsite as

37:05well. And that allowed them to raise the alarm and then rescue us when the save Brandon and the other three dogs. The emergency crews got all of them out alive, which is always good. Two of the dogs had suffered some broken burn injuries, but they were all fine, so good, we're in a way have animal lovers out there like ourselves. Brandon was airlifted to hospital in Idaho and later released when he recovered. He was described by his brothers being pretty banged up as you'd expect, but he was recovering well. So, it's nice to finish with a reminder that sometimes our dogs do really live up to the idea of being our best friends. He's blue, we couldn't call 999, but he knew exactly what to do when he's on a needed help at him. And I've also got a little test for you here. It's on the same article. Yeah, it listed 10 most loyal dog breeds. So, it says loyalty by definition lends itself to dogs who are more selective and prefer a few people who are well connected to their person. So, they're very picky. And they're assessed by

38:09the following behaviors. You've got recall, so coming back to you, when called him from Pyreway, that rules out my pub Bruce Stryower. There's checking in on you often, eagerly following your requests and asking for interaction with you across a variety of activities. I've got the top 10 listed here, and I wonder if you can, how many you could get right? Let's give you 10 guesses just to end out here and see how many of the 10 you get right. Well, let me tell you who I reckon it could be. So, actually, if you've got a downmation, dizzy rascal and a downmation, stroke, brutal, badly, I think both of those when we top 10. So, downmation is not in the top 10. Now, there is any form of poodle. Go ahead and give us the top three, Jack. Well, that's it. You're just going to guess your own dog breeds. You make a great quiz, are you? Well, I know I bought my dogs, I bought a part of that. Good. I'll just give you the top three. Number one is a rockwiler.

39:12Number two is Chihuahua, of which I have a pure breed and a cross with a journey's crested in my house. I think. They are definitely loving and loyal. And three would be a German shepherd. There we go. You never fail to amazed me if you're knowledge and your the things you do. My ability to copy and paste is unmatched from, I caused written by someone who was much more well versed in the English language. That was the true cram catcher. I hope you enjoyed that. We'll be back next month with some Mardros. Hopefully, won't be as rusty. I was a bit tired this morning. I felt like my first star was a bit ragged. Maybe Adam's editing can help me out there. I will hold my breath because I was like, with my ability. Still at the Facebook group, Henry is up and running again. Yeah. I mean, it never's closed down, but it just was a bit dormant, wasn't it? I think. 200 in there now, I think. Good little community of that. And we'll keep up the

40:15more lighthearted conversations because he gets his away from doing what we do all the time. It's a bit different and it's an extra content for the few fans that we do. Yep. And we're here. What? First Saturday of every month. First Saturday of every month is a plan, so it's going to be 3rd of October when you're hearing this. Of course, because you're hearing this on the 3rd of October. But we're recording this on the 29th of September, so we're time traveling again. Yeah. Let's leave it there before we start, well, before I start rumbling on, and I'll be criticised for that in the past, but I'm many people. Just how I am. Sorry. That's so much. We don't mind you. Despite it, everyone else says. Yeah. I am a twat. But we'll leave it there. Cheerio, everyone. Cheerio. Want more True Crime? This podcast and loads more are part of the Always True Crime Network. It's packed with box sets to binge and twisted tails you won't find anywhere else. Find your next podcast obsession at AlwaysTrueCrim.com.