The Narrative Ep. 83: The MAGA King

0:00The bad man, do you want to get the bad man, explain those bad man? That's a hell of a name. There's a misdys and mall information in the chat and shockingly, because I figured he was right, I have not used this episode title before. It's convinced that I have, but I did kind of rug everybody because last week I had this episode up, rather just had it up, and then I had to pull out like a little bitch before the show. So this is an evergreen episode, and I'm kind of glad it got delayed a bunch of times. Didn't really get delayed. This is a topic that my guests tonight and I have flirted with talking about every time we've done any sort of show together, basically. And this time we're going to do it. I am riskally going to embark on a intro section that leads us into it, but I know we are talking about the actual topic tonight. I have timing in my head.

1:01I'm going to hard pivot us into the topic. It's going to be a good one. This episode is called the Maga King that is talking or referencing Donald Trump. It's been a few weeks since we've done an episode of the narrative, right? I think it's been like three weeks. We had Gart Vegas, and I was sick. Now I'm feeling pretty good. So I think we're ready. We're on the cusp of the midterms to end all midterms, which I'm sure will be the most seismic midterm elections of all time. And everything has been coming to this, everything in your life, everything in my life, everything in the known universe. I believe there are biblical passages directly referencing the 2026 midterms. I assume I don't know this for sure. I believe every Q drop ever dropped was referencing the 2026 midterms. We can definitely take everything Trump says right now at face value because we are within

2:03the window of the midterms. The day after we're going to go back to playing 5D chess game theory, master of narrative, warfare, time lord, time traveling, wizard, all that kind of stuff. We're going to get back into it. But for now, everything that Trump says, we will take as 100% literal, especially when it's ridiculous. And we will embrace unity. We're going to push the ball forward or we might just ruin it all. But from what I hear, Badlands already ruined all that stuff. So if you guys are left, I see chats already bumping. Good to have you guys here. It's going to be a fun one. And I guess before I bring my guest on, I will thank tonight's show sponsors, starting with our longtime friends at Van Man, also pronounced Van Man. Ready to upgrade your daily routine with truly clean natural products and no exceptions? Start in the kitchen with Van Man's pure cooking talo.

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5:08to listeners of this show. I just wanted to show you guys. They took our feedback about the old landing page. This is the new landing page where there's actually a button to buy the thing. You don't have to read a burning bright length article first. I mean that a good fun. They wanted you guys to know everything possible about cacao Bliss before you took the plunge. But now you can just go buy it and take our word for it. It's good stuff. Okay. Tonight. We're talking about the magcking, specifically Donald Trump, despite the fact that we have been branded anti-plan, anti-Trump. We've turned our backs on Trump. We're going to prove just how far we have turned our backs on Trump tonight by doing a discussion about how we would very unironically declare him king if we had the power to do so. I am not joking about that. I also don't think my guest tonight is joking about that. So we're going to talk about that tonight and hopefully have an interesting conversation

6:12about it, specifically incorporating Tolkien in a way that probably fits better than most of the other times we bring up Tolkien no matter what and joining me to help with that journey is John Drake. Good evening. How's it going, man? I was just thinking during your intro, someone needs to take AI and where it's how many men of you killed my lord and put Chris Paul as Jamie Lannister and the question is how many things have you stopped coming, my lord? Yeah, everything. I mean, it really is. You know, it's funny. Obviously, and guys, we're not going to go into drama farming. I do, by the way, I do want to say to this audience, I actually met up with some New England badlanders Saturday in Plymouth, Massachusetts, the home of Gart 2025. Was that when we were there? So that was great to see some people. And it's sobering because when you get subjected to struggle sessions online, this stuff gets so amplified.

7:13Plus it's just human nature to focus on that kind of stuff, especially when the point of these ops is to make you focus on that stuff. So it's always good to not just talk to the badlanders in chat and in telegram and in the sub-stack comments and all that kind of stuff, but in person, because, you know, a few of them knew kind of generally what was going on. And us being called the doomers and trending because, you know, we were going to ruin and stop what's coming. But a lot of them don't until we focus on it. And I do get that. It's a tough balance just so you guys know when we do kind of talk about this stuff. Of course, part of it is human nature. But part of it is John and I felt last week that it would be illustrative a bit to kind of demonstrate how obvious these not just anti badlands, but I would say anti-Trump and demoralization campaigns are like how coordinated they are. It seems like this one's kind of already fizzled out. I have a pet theory that it sort of got launched a little bit too early.

8:15Usually they launched the anti-badlands ops like a week before them in terms. So we'll see if there's another one coming. And it's not all about badlands, but I think it is about using us as a force multiplier or rather a force suppressor to stop the kind of conversations that this audience is very comfortable having, including on shows like yours, including on shows like this. So I wonder what you think though. That leads me into kind of what I wanted to intro this show about. We are going to talk about Donald Trump. We are going to talk about Erragorn and not in just a nerdy way. There are some real cool interesting analogs between these two characters that John and I have been talking about privately for months that we're going to go through tonight. But as a lead into that, I don't necessarily want to focus on struggle sessions and all that, but I more want to make the broad observation that whatever you think you should be doing on November 3rd with the midterms or whatever you think other people should be doing, it

9:19feels to me like we should be able to agree at least that the emotional temperature surrounding elections, especially midterms, is dialed up to a level that it should not be. And I just wonder what you think about that in general. Well, I've used that as a launching point for commentary on my own show. I tend to stay pretty consistent to the material. And I've taken pointers from my father, who's a pastor and he's a exegetical preacher, meaning he doesn't preach topically. He'll go through like the book of Matthew, and he'll take like three or four years to do it and just go verse by verse. So that's kind of the way I grew up in that I went to churches like that growing up as a kid. And then I've been at that church with where my father lost the pastor for almost 20 years. So I've had that as sort of the that's that's my background as far as how to approach a

10:23text. So that's the way I'm approaching spooner stuff is taking it section by section is going through. And so as things come up that are relative to whatever this current struggle session is, whether it's, you know, elections or whatever, I'll address it in that context. So that especially in relation to the emotion that people feel, you can have a hyper logical and hyper first principles based argument and instantly see that it's superior to the emotional dribble that we're usually subjected to in these types of struggle sessions where you're you're given a false binary. You're either this or you're that. Well, there's actually a lot of nuance to a lot of things, including this. And I mean, I do think there is a binary when it comes to representative government and that I think it is an absolute and utter sham. And at best, you're just wasting your time at work. You're participating in the subjugation of your neighbors, which I think adds a layer

11:27of more quality to, you know, to the exercise. But I come to that conclusion, not out of a of a righteous indignation, but of just thinking through, okay, these are the values that we say we believe in that we believe that this country was founded on. And then as Spooner does and I've taken after him, let's examine the system that we have in place and compare them to those values and do they do they line up and emotion doesn't have to play a role at all. It does because the Claire cat likes to talk about how uncomfortable my show can be because there's no sacred cow. Like I doesn't matter what the system is. We say we believe X, the system is Y. Let's reconcile. And you can, it's not easy to do that without emotion. I mean, I'm Greek, so I have emotion, but or passion, I would rather put it that way. I guess, you know, I'm the Mediterranean version of your Irish heritage. And all we came first.

12:28But you can have that conversation without freaking out. And really, if you're having it and freaking out, that's a good marker to pump the brakes, take a step back. Okay, why is what this person saying, getting me so angry and so upset? Why is what this, why do I feel like I just want to call them names and and and punch them? Something is going on there. And it's to your, your betterment to figure out what that is. You might come out of the other side of that personal struggle session, not agreeing with them, but at least you understand their position, because that's something I don't think is possible or I don't believe would be possible for certain people that are making the kinds of noise that they were making. I don't think they could outline what my arguments are. I don't think they could really outline what what Chris's arguments are or yours or John's they will they assign arguments to us. They assign arguments or they create a caricature of your, yours or my arguments and the

13:33classic straw man. And then they attack those things and it's like, yeah, that you're, you know, it's like the, you know, pin the tail of the donkey with the blindfold and like you're hitting the back wall over there, man. Like you're not even close to the donkey. And so to me, that's the way you get away from the emotionality of it is like, I don't care what you call me. Like I've not seen you rebut my argument. Want to let's talk about my argument? You never address my argument. So let's do that. But they think that. Yeah. Well said. And I think that I think you're leading there. It kind of like I wanted to have an intro section about the struggle sessions and for anybody who's been living under a rock or hasn't heard us talk about this in the last couple of weeks. It was the latest, you know, obviously there was the shipwreck thing or shipwreck posted video floating a hypothetical of saying, Hey, just like people talk about with tax revolts, what would happen to the government or to the system if enough Americans got together and very publicly said they were not voting? Now, badlands didn't co-sign that necessarily, even though some certainly would.

14:35She even I think went on to say that she's voting in her elections, all of which is just to say she's floating hypothetical. The wagons circled around something. And I think that's a whole other topic of what are you circling the wagons around? Because I think people that are holding these communist struggle sessions believe or are projecting rather maybe they don't believe that they're circling the wagons around Donald Trump and whatever plan he represents, where the purpose of this topic tonight and the reason I'm kind of glad it got delayed in October. We were going to talk about this back in August, back in July or August. We've been talking about this for a long time, privately, but it is very timely to say like, you know, I think actually you might be circling the wagons around the other thing. And maybe Donald Trump is kind of outside of the gates that you're defending right now. That's one of the ironies of having these kind of conversations. If you are emotionally, aggressively defending the election system and ruthlessly attacking

15:41and character assassinating people who do not have faith in the election system, which is to say nothing about Donald Trump. In fact, I would argue personally that if you have no faith in the election system, Donald Trump is the most famous election denier in the history of the world, potentially when it comes to modern US elections anyway, certainly the most famous American. And you know, to suggest that we're undermining Donald Trump, I'd be in like, you know, all those things Donald Trump said, I still believe those things. So we're going to talk about a lot of that. But I think that, you know, the reason I use the word emotion is to your point about these arguments. It really is increasingly apparent that as often as we use terminology, like first principles argument, people genuinely don't know what that is. They don't understand what it is. And I don't mean they don't understand like the definition of it.

16:42They don't understand what it is. You know, it's kind of like if somebody describes to you how to ride a bike, but you didn't know what a bike was. And they could describe everything perfectly accurately. They could accurately describe it's this, it's this vehicle. It's got two wheels, one on the front, one on the back. There's a gears and pedal system that moves a chain around. It propels you forward under your own power and leverage. You could talk about all that kind of stuff. People would be like, okay, I think I kind of understand very broadly what you're saying. But until you've seen or witnessed or ridden a bike, somebody talking about it is just not going to get there. And it's funny. I was talking to my wife earlier today. There was an article in the Atlantic. We won't go through it. But just as an example, I saw it was talking about AI. And basically it was saying it was trying to find a new fear approach, the anti-AI fear approach, because they're kind of sniffing around for how can we make people afraid of

17:44this. The last thing didn't work a couple of weeks ago. And the angle the Atlantic took this weekend was, well, you know, the real problem is children in our society are raised learning how to defer to experts when they don't know something. Except John, they said, if they just stop the sentence there, I'd be like, we totally agree. We 100% agree on the problem. They were saying the advent of artificial intelligence is going to make it so that children are no longer going to defer to human experts for things they don't know. They're just going to find the answers themselves. And this is where we're at now. So, you know, I think you can loop that like, what is that? First principles I've been talking for years about how AI, just like a sword that we've both got in our background are human extenders. Bad or good. They are human extenders, human amplifiers.

18:46They can be rather. It's kind of interesting that for people that don't understand first principles argument, I think most of our audience does. It's simply as Drake said in his intro there, being able to non-emotionally talk about, even if you're passionately talking about the election system. And as Chris said in our chat, you know, a few last week when all this crap was going on, the latest struggle session, this entire community is allowed to talk about how the election system is fraudulent on odd numbered years, but on even numbered years, you get to shut up and defer to Fox News polls. Like being able to have this conversation about whether or not the system we are in is fraudulent is secondary to the argument over whether or not you believe you should participate in the thing. And that alone is a first principles kind of framework that I think a lot of people just can't get on board with because they're used to dominating a culture of emotional,

19:48rhetorical domination where the only way to advance your agenda is to just drown out the other side with emotional character assassination based attacks and rhetoric, circular logic. And if you have more people in your louder, you win. Well, that's why Spinner calls elections enumerations because it's just a matter of counting. You just, that's how you decide what, what course society, you know, society's going to go. You just line up one side and line up the other side and count and whoever has the most number wins. And that's not a, a good way to guarantee your liberty. He calls that an insane system. But in regards to the first principles, I think that's a conversation that even for people that understand what they are, it's useful to continually go through those things in the same way that a concert pianist who is, you know, prodigy level still practices all the time. Andrei Sagovia is a famous classical guitarist and the description of his practice routine,

20:53the dude was playing guitar like six to eight hours a day. And I, if I practiced that much, I would never come close to being as good as him, maybe. But probably not. But that illustrates the importance of going over these things on a, on a regular basis just to, to re up in your mind, what actually we're talking about, you know, that I love Legos. I grew up playing Legos. I've stepped on plenty of Legos now that my daughters have Legos and that there's no, I would never wish that horror on my worst enemy in the middle of the night when you find that little piece. Legos are a good first principles analogy because you have the first principle of the fundamental building blocks that you can then piece together and build something out of. And so that's my mind, a good illustration of what first principles thinking is because everyone is actually arguing from first principles. They just don't realize that they are because everyone has a starting point. Everyone has a fundamental understanding of what reality is that they then have a logic

22:00chain that they might also not be aware of. It might have been just spoon fed to them and they're just regurgitating. They know the output, but they don't necessarily know how the output was arrived at. But everyone actually does that. So intentional first principles thinking is whittling away all of the fluff, you know, getting all the pieces down. And so you have them laid out. You can see them, you know, for what they are laid bare and then you can start building back from there. And it's useful to do that. That's kind of essentially what game theory is as well. You're just taking all of the moving parts and you're just imagining, okay, what if I put this together? Oh, I can make a cool spaceship. Oh, I can make a cool space is gay. But I can make a castle. I can make, you know, whatever. You know, I loved building Legos and I would always build the set that, you know, it came with Christmas morning, I built that and then it would go into the collective sibling, you know, bin and we would spend hours just building, I loved building my own ideas. Yeah. That's taking apart the other kids and putting them together.

23:02Oh, yeah, because and sometimes you'd, you'd want a certain set because it had that piece, you know, like, oh, man, that piece of it. Anyway, so to me, that's what first principles thinking actually is is understanding where you're starting and then understanding why you're starting there. And oftentimes in that process, you end up discovering that a per-crispall, man, there's some assumptions built into what I think are my first principles that maybe I shouldn't be assuming. And so then you start searching for, you know, I call this in my, my ethos series, the principle attribute chain. And he realized, man, I'm, I'm studying an attribute of a higher principle. And so then you examine that higher principle and you realize it's also an attribute of a higher principle in the Greeks did this and they arrived at the concept of the ether. They just stopped one, one layer too short. They didn't reach God himself. But you can, you can do that process and it's healthy to do that process because then when you are inundated with all these, these, you know, screaming matches online, which

24:06we're trained to do, by the way. Yep. We are, you know, that programming, it's not, you're not just getting the narrative feed of what you should be thinking from these, you know, round table media programs, you know, of course, the name program, everyone's aware of that. It's called program because of programming you, but you're even shown how you're supposed to engage in those debates. None of those people are trying to get down to first principles because you can't do that in a 15 second sound bite. And so people are trained then to react emotionally and then just shout and just shout people down. And so then they carry that right into, you know, into their interactions online. I've argued this, you know, with everyone has their own brand of autism. Like, I've struggled in deep emotional times in my life to actually legitimately grieve because we've watched movies for so many years where Oscar-winning performances have people acting in these brash and like out, out of control, screaming stuff. Right. Yeah. And like, so that's how you're supposed to act when you're angry or when you, when you

25:08grieve, you're supposed to hold a picture of your loved one and caress their face. And so I was so self aware of that stuff that when I actually like lost my brother, I really struggled with the grieving process because I was too self aware of that. It just an illustration of how we are so attacked from all these different angles about how to think about reality, how to respond to reality. And so when you become aware of that and then you see people continuing along in that pattern, that's at least a yellow flag, if not a red flag. I don't think what they're arguing for is, is the right thing because I don't think they understand what they're really talking about. And if at the end of the day, they really believe what it is that they think is true, then my asking questions of it should embolden them, not terrify them because if what they're believing is true, it can survive my questions. Well, it can't survive the questions is the answer there. And we know that this increasingly is a very prominent, very, very prominent queue account. And we say that because these happen to be the accounts telling this kind of stuff that I happened to see earlier tonight, literally you used the word X communication when it comes

26:16to people in the so-called truth community questioning the veracity of elections or whether or not they are choosing to represent their sovereignty in this way. This person said, and I'm using it as an illustrative example, you guys just go search this, look at the biggest queue accounts and you'll find who it is immediately. I don't blame people directly for a reason these days. We're not going to get anything out of it. But as an illustrative example, I came up with this kind of cipher that's, it's just a principal cipher. It's nothing special, but I call it over to the school post. I wrote that article several years ago. That was just my own attempt to, I called it mapping enemy narrative retreat. The reason I came up with that wasn't just to have this framework to just lock things into. It was more in this first principles argumentation, if we know that the so-called media, the media industrial complex, lies to us by virtue of its nature.

27:18Like it is by virtue of its nature and by virtue of its function. It was designed to lie to us, right? Pretty much everybody in this audience understands that. Or else you wouldn't even know there's a term called the info war. You wouldn't ever call yourself a truth or you probably wouldn't be a Trump fan, that kind of stuff. A few years ago, 2023, I was sitting there going, okay, well, if the media lies by virtue of its design and if they can't tell the truth, because telling the truth would not only undermine their mission and their design, but would potentially implicate them in crimes, then when are they going to tell the truth or are they going to tell the truth? So I was just kind of following that logic chain as you called it back and I came up with this cipher over to this gal post that could be iterated on. The idea was to say, if we are not going to get the media to just say the true things

28:21like we think we know people in this audience about various subjects, let's say Trump not being a Russian asset, something very simple, early info war like that. If they're never going to just come out and say it, how can we tell whether or not we are advancing or they are retreating on a narrative level? And this pattern I had mapped out was basically following almost, it's kind of interesting that you brought up grief because I kind of followed the or what I laid out ended up sort of mirroring the cycle of grief or the like the stages of grief as they call it and also the cycle of abuse. You know, these things are kind of similar because I was writing elections. Yeah, I mean, I was writing down basically like, all right, what happens? What Trump says something, right? Trump makes a claim. He deploys a claim out into the ether or a truth or deploys a claim out into the ether, a queue drops deploy a claim. What does the media do immediately deny, deny, deny, right? Like fire, concentrate fire on this thing, deny that it exists.

29:26Then they start moving through what I called over to his go post where then it starts to become qualifying. Well, all right, we'll qualify a little bit of this, but then we're going to put 99% of it in this bucket over here, but we're going to qualify this one percent of it. And then they get they eventually get to the point. There's a few more steps in there. But one of the terms I use is I said the end stage of over to his goal post is when enemy narrative converges with your own. And that was not me suggesting that enemy narrative mirrors your own in terms of they just say, hey, you were right about this thing. It's more that they take your original premise, accept it and then attempt to invert it. So they'll say like, you know, the queue drops were not real. All of this is conspiracy theory. Then it's the queue drops as part of some subversive conspiracy of these fringe lunatic. Then you get all the way to the point where they might say the queue drops is clearly coming from the Trump administration and is a national security threat to our democracy.

30:26And when they get to that point, they're still lying, right? They're still inverting the truth, but they are saying they are basically mirroring your original premise. The reason I brought up that queue account ironically enough in 2026, we are at the point where you guys have seen me in particular and us Chris Paul in particular for last several years on badlands, use terminology like X communication when it comes to the struggle sessions that we have been subjected to by almost exclusively the queue community or people claiming to be part of the queue community. You've said, man, it's really like a religion now. The queue drops are the queue drops are a gospel, but we would use this term of X communication. Now you have accounts saying openly, if anybody out there is questioning the veracity of our elections, they should be X communicated from the movement, which is pretty problematic

31:32on two levels. Number one, it's religious terminology and cultish terminology. So they're basically becoming exactly what they claim to not have been the entire time. And not a bad thing, by the way, just to jump in for a second that they're outing themselves for what they really are, which is, which is great. Yeah, exactly. That's one of the most honest things that they could do. So yeah, go ahead. Yep. And that point, I was just going to say the other side of this that I think is good, which is when I say the end stage of over to school post, convergence is good. Convergence is narrative retreat along enemy grounds. So the queue community used to say, oh, badlands is anti-Trump, badlands is anti whatever, badlands is anti-Q, badlands is anti-plan, badlands is whatever. And now it's all the way at the point where they're just like badlands is against the American election system and things that's fraudulent and we need to X communicate them. Hey, that's what we were saying about you for the last five years. So now you're just saying exactly what we said. And the last point I was going to make is that the biggest problem that I'm finding and

32:34I'm finding I'm having the problem with my own framing with my own terminology, which is why I'm trying to train myself to stop using this terminology, which would be the movement, the community, the mission, because it turns out there is not a unified mission in MAGA. There is not a unified movement in the truth community. And by the way, I don't think that's a bad thing, but it is clear that there are people who are career truthers or decoders who have created a monolith of what the movement is and what the rules of the movement are. And I directly refute that. I condemn that and I'm not going to be a part of that. And I think that's why they hate us so much, basically. Yeah, that's all well said. And I, like a whole queue thing is, I mean, I was not as early into it as you were. And it was a burst of hope for me, as we've talked about before when I've been on your show,

33:39that, you know, I'd gone through a period of deep, deep dark pill, like your black pilling, because Spooner will do that to you. Yeah. Because it was like, man, the whole thing, the entire system, I didn't use terms like uniparty, but it was like, they're all on the same team. Like they're worse screwed. Like I mentioned before, I learned what the Federal Reserve was when I was 12. So I started off on a really cheery note of my life. Sit down, son. And like, I understood like, oh my gosh. I think that's money you're holding. Yeah, exactly. So when the queue thing came around, it was like, man, this, this, this is exciting because there's someone seems to be doing something about it. And I know Chris has talked about some varying, you know, thoughts on, on, it's origins and whatever that I find to be rather interesting. But one of the things that concerned me about the movement when I, the movement in those early days, I started following it in like January of 2019 was how statist it is.

34:43All the language in there is hyperstatist. And that bothered me because I'm not a statist. And people were getting woken up to being patriotic again. And that's all very good. But it was not patriotic about the values, but about the system and fixing the system, tear it down, but keep the stuff that's good kind of a kind of a concept. And really I credit Chris Paul with being the, the voice that I started to hear and I can't remember when I first started listening to him, but a number of years ago, obviously, but I started to feel emboldened to be a little more vocal about, hey, maybe like as I've thought this for 20 years, yeah, voting is not the way to fix this. And I never felt welcome in sharing those, those views because people were so rapidly holding the line and all that kind of stuff like an election day, like people tweeting hold the line is somehow going to overcome a system that is designed to be fraudulent.

35:46I think it's also interesting that you talk about the media and the overtens goalposts and the conversions and that one of the markers that people would use as a, a tell for how true the whole cue thing was meant to be was how much the media attacked it. Right. I've been thinking about that and it's like, man, if that was some type of an op that just kept it was like, yeah, it was on the very extreme boundaries of controlled opposition, but it was still within controlled opposition. To me, the status aspect of it kind of lends towards that designation of it. But the fact that you're using to your point an institution that is definitionally false to verify is that that's a bit of a problem in my mind. And especially when you see people call lessing around language like excommunication, which

36:46of course is inherently religious language, which of course inherently reveals these people to be idolatrous statists because that's what they're protecting. Not they're not protecting Trump. He doesn't need us to protect him. And so they're protecting the system. And I went through on my show, I'm going to the poverty essay and the section I was covering tonight was on free banking, which Spooner has an entire it is so fascinating, completely different view of we tend to think of a bank is like a building where you deposit your money and they loan out money. He's like, but loan banking is not loaning out money. Banking is loaning out credit and it has to be credit that's based on something as opposed to a 0% fraction reserve system. We're under loaning out money that doesn't actually exist inflating the currency all that kind of I mean, Spooner had this stuff figured out 180 years ago by now, fascinating stuff. But that's a system that was installed in the presence of this so called like this, you know, financial system was installed over the course of about a hundred years or so that

37:48we're subjected to was installed under the auspices of this, this freedom system that we're told we have, which tells you it's okay, it's not what we have. And so you have to kind of see those markers, you see, you see, cue people using religious language, okay, I don't want to be a part of religion that's not worshiping Christ, they're worshiping the state. No, thank you. You have to see those markers for what they are. Another branding themselves as both. Well, right. You see, they're posting the Bible verses and then the cue drops to make sure that we know that they're the same thing. Yes. There's plenty of Bible verses that I can pull out too that you know, could like one of my favorite examples of how you can use scripture and also the importance of a comma is, there's a proverb, it's spare the rod and spoil the child, meaning like if you don't discipline your child, they're going to be, you know, a brat. But then people just, you know, they they add the comma and they go, spare the rod, spoil the child or just spare the rod and then they leave out the rest of that.

38:52So you can manipulate just like anything else, you can manipulate scripture, but you know, woe to the people that do that and that's between them and God. But we can use that as markers and realize, you know, I don't want to be associated with that. I don't need them as my ally because at the end of the day, I would rather be standing on, it's like that classic meme that all of us have personalized at some point, I'm sure, it's the sea of people and the one guy standing there going, yeah, you're all wrong. And yep, that's that's that's it right there. I totally agree, man. And the bottom line is it, as cliche as it is, these reverse indicators avail you well. We are not the ones marauding through the digital landscape, trying to struggle session, other people into agreeing with us. We have conversations with each other on our platform, on our private platforms, well, they're public, but I mean, we're just having these conversations that are open source

39:56conversations. You're welcome to come in and agree, disagree. We're totally fine with that. But this is the key difference because there are the occasional people that are like, why so annoyed by it or what do you mean by struggle session? You just can't handle people disagreeing with you. I don't know if you guys have been watching me for any length of time, but I can handle people disagreeing with me. In fact, I get uncomfortable when they don't over anything. The difference is that's not what that's not what a struggle session is. A struggle session is people trying to get us to stop advancing our argument. And by advocating openly and publicly for us to be de-platformed, for us to be harassed, for us to be ridiculed, for us to be silenced, for us to be excommunicated. That is not somebody that wants to have a conversation or a debate. That is somebody who wants to dominate. And usually, usually, people engaging in that kind of behavior are not on the right side,

40:58meaning the moral side of that argument to your other point about standing alone. So at this point, like, I used to caveat, oh, I was a key person, whatever. And I still am. I own that. I own my whole history as a somebody who is heavily inspired by the Q-drops, very important in my life. I would not have been here without following the drops. They were highly influential on me. As you said, I was blackpilling at the time. But what I do disavow is the, as I named them in Vegas, the decode industrial complex. I disavow you. Be gone from here. I do not want you. I do not want to be considered. One of you. You don't want the presidential medal of freedom if the decoders get it in the Oval Office, not because I don't think the drops are legitimate, but because I think the behavior of this internet mob that would, that would dane to speak for all Americans, that would also openly, openly not just acknowledge, but stump for the lying to Americans in perpetuity so that

42:01their betters, meaning them, could usher them into a future that they're too stupid to understand. And it's like, you know, at some point, you might just kind of be becoming the villain. And the last point I want to make and want your thoughts on it in light of, before we get into the magickang is, again, the emotional rhetoric. What is all this coming from, leaving the struggle session aside? What is all this coming from? And to me, the real humiliation ritual is less the veracity of our elections at this point. The real humiliation ritual to me is that the election system itself has become this emotional gravity well that starts not even 18 months into a term. And then it extends by several months on either side of that. And then right when we get into 2027, we're going to get three months of stumping for the 2028 elections, then they'll take a break for three months, then it'll come back, then

43:04we'll be into the new cycle of the next election. And at a certain point, you take a couple steps back and you go, hold on, all political rhetoric now, all engagement in civic discussion. And in discussion about the future of America and about ideas are not based on ideas. They are not based on principles. They are not based on morality or anything like that. They are entirely based upon who gets power over you, which is one of the major things you talk about, all of which is to say, even people that are very earnestly freaking out and saying, we need to get the vote out, we need to swamp the vote, those kind of people that are not doing it because they're trying to struggle session us. I still think they are falling for a siop, not just because the election system is fraudulent and fake, but because even if it was real, the fact that you care so much about what's going to happen with Congress in five weeks is an indicator directly of the disproportionate

44:07influence that these people have on your life, right? That is a separate argument. That is a separate argument from whether or not the election system is legitimate or not. Even if I grant you that it's entirely legitimate and our vote counts super, super much, the most it's ever counted before, everything's cleaned up. Somebody was explaining how the election systems are all cleaned up now and it's part of the plan. It wasn't the last three elections, but it is now. If I accept all of that, it is still way too defining an event that reveals just how much power has been outsourced to the US government over the American people because the truth is we really shouldn't care who is in Congress. It should be a curiosity. It should be this little trivia thing for political or legislative nerds. It should not be a thing that every man, woman and child in the US is expected to have an emotional reaction to for months on either side of the government has forgotten itself

45:11and my opinion, which will lead us into our discussion, is that Donald Trump is well aware of that and has kind of been saying that the entire time, but you can go from there. Yeah, and I think people have lost, or maybe we never even had it in this country, we do not understand the purpose of government. If you think of an election, I've sent on my show multiple times, if the election in response to the question of like representative to what end, what are you electing these people for? If the result of an election is to put together a group of people who will then decide how you can live your life and by what justification you can lose your life, liberty or your property because that's what law is. That's what legislation is actually doing. They're finding some, they're creating some statute by which they can now reach into your bank account.

46:11They can now reach into, you know, put you in handcuffs and throw you in a cage, they can hang you from a gallows. That's what we're talking about. And so that's why to me, it's not just a matter of is the election system accurate or not. It's what's being voted on is that a legitimate thing that is up for a vote. And the answer I have to that is from a natural perspective, clearly not. Does it matter to the lamb when the wolves are voting what to have for dinner? If the lamb can verify that every vote was accurately counted, if the lamb is what is voted to be for dinner, and the answer is, well, obviously not. And yet we're, we're supposed to go well, the election, it was accurate. Like let's pretend it was accurate. Yeah. At the analogy I use for a Latin, not this son to the last of this evening, but last week in just helping people to understand what rights actually are. If that's another thing, I think people completely lost the plot on a right, you can think

47:16of your rights as being like a fence around you. And a criminal will climb the fence, they'll break through, they'll get in, they'll steal stuff, whatever. The government does it differently. The government puts the guard at your gate. And when you go out to you, worship with your neighbors, when you go out to borrow money from your neighbors, borrow a cup of sugar from your neighbors like in the old, you know, neighborhood in the 80s. The government stops and goes, Hey, hey, what are you doing? I'm going to go borrow money, you know, money from a neighbor. Well, there's a list of rules about how you can do that. Says who? Well, we do. And they have a gun. And that's how they enforce those rules. So an election is in, let's say there's a neighborhood of 100 houses and 51 of the houses all vote to put guards at the gate of the 49. Is that legitimate? Yeah. Let's say it was, let's say it was wholly accurate. You can verify, yep, 51 of those houses, they all voted to put that guard at your gate.

48:18And now that guard is stopping you from leaving and engaging in freedom of association, which is yours by natural right to do with those who are willing. And it doesn't matter what the end goal of your associating is, whether that's economic or just purely platonic or whatever else, it's irrelevant, but they come up with excuses. Well, we have to stop this. We have to stop that. And so we have that's not fair what you're doing there. So we have to put these rules on that. That's what legislation is. All legislation is artificial arbitrary unnatural restrictions on your natural rights. And if that's the result of an election, that's what makes it illegitimate, not the fact that it was not counted properly. And that's the thing for me when I see people online freaking out about people voting or not voting, like you guys don't even know what you're voting about. You have no idea what the hell you're even talking about, which is why when people, which I'm not really been the brunt of it, which I think is hilarious. But you know, it's like they pick shipwreck and like, I mean, good grief. I mean, you got G money and other guys too.

49:19It's not like I'm the only one, but I've certainly not been shy about it. But maybe they don't want to give me more airtime or something. But you're you guys don't even understand what elections are actually doing. And so therefore you think, well, what's the was the problem in voting? Is it legitimate for you to vote? Here's another thing for people to think about. If 10 men and one woman are on an island and the men decide to hold election, whether or not to rape that woman, should you vote no? Right. The answer is you don't vote. You stand there next to her with your fucking sword. Excuse my language. And you defend her because that's not something to be voted about. And that's not a legitimate election. People would attempt to straw man what you're saying, except by basically saying, well, that's why we have the Constitution, John, except let's use the mega community or the vote super hard mega community as an example here. They undermine their own argument by saying the country is doomed if we lose this election.

50:25Right. In other words, they would say the Constitution is what will protect us from the tyranny of the government, John. Right. That's why we have the Constitution. It's worked well so far. But if the Democrats win, they're going to trample all over the Constitution you see. And then they're going to take all your rights away. Let's leave aside the argument of that we don't have them as is. Let's just say like everything's great right now and there's no problem with anything. We're giving a lot of caveats to the other side here. We're helping you out. So this is where cognitive dissonance hits. And it's so funny because so many of these people, so many of these so-called truthers use the term cognitive dissonance while living in it. Because they're talking about how the Constitution protects our rights, but if the Democrats win, they can just destroy it. Well, then it kind of sucks, doesn't it? Yeah. It's kind of a pussy, isn't it? Yeah. Like if the Constitution can't do shit to protect you from the Dems, winning an election,

51:32whether it's real or fake, and by the way, the reason you want everybody to vote super hard is because you're afraid they'll beat you in a real election too. That's what you're afraid of. And to your other point there, that system is that it's just a back and forth. You know, it's like, you know, the baseball diamond when you're deciding who gets to hit first and you, you know, throw up and catch the bat and then do this, except it's a sword. And the one who lands their hand on the hill, they get to run it through the other guy. Yeah, that's not liberty, man. It's completely the arguments deconstruct themselves. These people that are constitutional maximalists won't admit that the structure of the government itself, before we even get into if the Constitution was a subversion, let's just take the constitutional maximalist argument and good faith in terms of intentions for the, you know, auspices of this discussion. Yeah. The fundamental argument, the fundamental flaw is that the federal government has already subsumed the Constitution and subverted the Constitution in the first place,

52:35which by the way, guys, is what Donald Trump said in his inaugural address. So like for people to say that we, and this is an anger, it's passion for, for this transition, just into the magicka happened. Yeah, this transition, just into the magicka, Donald Trump ran on a constitutional sovereign maximalist stance. He was open about this stance. He was direct about this stance. He ran against the GOP. He concentrated his initial fire in the first year of his explosion into the political zeitgeist of the United States. Against the GOP, he has never endorsed Congress besides making true social posts. By the way, he also endorsed the Vax, which we're not supposed to talk about, right? But everybody can reason their way around that one by understanding maybe the battle space that he was operating in. Well, he's operating in a battle space right now.

53:37And what are the arguments I made in Vegas is if you're like a vote hard maximalist because Trump is saying it on true social, while Chris and I last night when I filled on the power hour went through the latest giant tell all from Trump to time magazine, where they say he doesn't seem to care about the midterms and he triples down on that. Well, why then would he be endorsing congressman and saying you got to go vote? My argument would be he is operating in a battle space not defined by the DEMs guys defined by you, defined by those of you who think Donald Trump's mandate will be eroded. If he loses a fake election, when the results of a fake or real election have nothing to do with Donald Trump's mandate, and his mission, which is why we've been wanting for months to talk about Donald Trump, the maga king, on both a figurative and literal level in terms of not just what we would want to see happen,

54:41but is what Trump is doing over the last 10 years and beyond. De facto living as a king, so to speak, a sovereign king, whatever term you want to use. In other words, is Donald Trump in your view leading the country as chief executive, or is he leading it in a different way and in a way that we haven't seen somebody lead it in a long time? So to answer that, one of the, I think I'm posed this to you. I mean, anyway, did, yeah, I did in chat. Did Trump get elected in 2016 or did he initiate a military coup? And the reason why, and I asked this on only lands too, because when that happened in Mayan Mar, all of the truth movement clapped their hands like steals and we're so excited,

55:42look, oh man, I wish that would have happened here. Well, maybe it did. By the way, given the state of the election system, we have no way of actually verifying that it didn't happen, but not being able to be falsified is kind of a knock against something. That doesn't mean it's not true, that it's true, just because you can't falsify it. But that's kind of like Chris Paul is always saying, show prove to me that the election was legitimate. So prove to me that Donald Trump actually won that election in 2016. We at we point to the military being present in a way that was unusual in his inauguration as being like, well, something else was going on and something else was going on, I think. And I believe firmly, without I can't prove it, that Donald Trump was the figure head of a military coup against some other subversive elements that claim to be the US government. And so what we're seeing is is that that process playing out.

56:46And the question you have to ask yourself is, is that okay? Are we okay as Americans of someone coming in with the military? Because the enemy is so bad and so because, okay, vote them out. Well, the true rulers, the spinner calls the money lending, or the money, loan-mongering money lenders. They're the ones that actually control power, which that should tell you, by the way, it doesn't matter between monarchies and representative governments because those families have stayed the same through that transition for centuries. So that kind of tells you that the current representative government system is not a threat to their power. They're the true actual rulers. So if Trump comes into a system that they created, which benefits them, which is really fascinating, going through the history of the, you know, the personal finance cottage industry, as I've done last couple weeks of my show. And just how they created this system that surveils us all to such an Instagram that the current freak out about flock cameras is like 100 years too late.

57:48Because they already had all the information they needed on us, you know, by the time we were born. And then you know, you're tied with your social security, all your financials, your health, LSF is wrapped up, they can have access to that stuff. But that system that's created, can you really defeat it by using the, the avenues of access that they give you? I don't think that's like that's just like kindergarten delusion. So it would take someone marching in with an army and seizing power and saying, this stops right here, right now, as a direct quote from Donald Trump. Because that needed to happen. And I think that it's okay. Obviously, if he's not a good king, that's not okay. But also, that illustrates that we need to re, we need to understand what, when he gave his inaugural address, and I've talked about this a lot, what did he mean by giving power back to the people? So he's this benevolent king who marches in with the army, takes over, strips out all the wires of their

58:50system and allows it to just grovel and die. I'm really talking about your like your death spirals and stuff like that. Like you're watching that spite like Sheila, you know, to invoke Lord of the Rings. She loves like spasming out because Sam, you know, skewered her with the sting. And we're seeing that happen. And it might not fully die because Sheila doesn't fully die either. I mean, that she's probably a good example of the deep state. But when that happened and Trump said, I mean, give you power back to the people. Did he really mean? Do the thing we've been doing for 250 years that got us to this point? And it's like, well, you went to the elect, you know, the voting booth and you voted in Donald Trump. Did you? Or does it mean something else? I think it has to mean something else because what we've been doing hasn't worked. And I see someone in the chest saying our system is broken as an understatement. It's not broken actually. It's working exactly as they designed it. Yes. And so that's why to think that it's broken means

59:51oh, we can fix it. And the way we're going to fix it is through the avenues that they give us. No, that's how you continue the system on. You have to you have to starve it out. And that's the devolution sandwich aspect of things. You need someone like Trump to march in because the enemy was too great. And then we have our responsibility on the flip side. I 100% cosine everything you said. And this is going back to people who have been around badlands the whole time for four years and with John before badlands. You'll know that John's been consistent about this. So we've had some arguments in terms of the semantics over the years where I'm one of those people that talks about 2016 being rigged in our favor or unrigged whatever you want to say like I believe that the military yes affected a coup against an illegitimate insurgency. I mean the two key words to me really does boil down to that the way I frame the last era of what we're looking at. I believe that going back however far you want to go back. I don't pretend to have the answer to this.

1:00:57We have been living under an insurgency that has layered an insurgency against the American people an insurgency against you might say the Constitution but either way an insurgency against the Republic is what I would confidently say as intended. As you said the system is designed that way. The system is an insurgency. It is an insurgency system layered over the intent of our Republic originally whether or not you think all the founding fathers had that intention or not. Certainly the way people in this audience think about being American etc. It's a subversion. It's an insurgency right. We get no argument from anybody in the badlands audience and probably from very few in the wider kind of magas space that Donald Trump represents a counter insurgency very literally that he has the military behind him whether you're a Q person whether you're a truth or whatever you are Donald Trump has said this in many of the clips that John's played on the power hour over the

1:01:57years referencing general Kellogg and all the rest of these guys that asked him to run according to his own mouth coming right out of his own mouth. US military asked him to run. What is that? It's a coup to use a blunt term like you. It's a counter insurgency. So if we are right we meaning you included who are watching the show or commenting on it whether whether you like or don't like our stances on elections you probably believe Donald Trump is part of a military civilian alliance. You probably believe he's part of a counter insurgency. If you believe that's the case do you think the goal of the counter insurgency is to vote really hard in elections and that's what it's predicated on. You think the counter insurgency anyway. Yeah. You think the counter insurgency against an entrenched globalist satanic death cult that is taken over your government and your election systems is to do to Drake's point what Fox News viewers were already doing from 1985

1:02:59through 2025. What would be like if you got you know heavily overweight by eating just nothing but junk food and overeating someone comes in and forces a liposuction on you and you're now skinny again and you just go right back to eating the food you they got you that way. Yeah and I'm going to play a clip here because it's not to trigger people although kind of it is to trigger people but I am sick of the weaving around the Trump and the vaccines conversation. Now I've been somebody who has defended Trump regarding his narrative deployments around the COVID vaccinations for a years and you guys who have been watching me for years know this. I have no problem with Donald Trump's communications about the COVID vaccine because I always appeal to when John Harold surfaced the Rich Higgins memo in part 22 whatever that was in the Devolution series. It's my favorite. It's one of my favorite parts of his research is Rich Higgins said Donald Trump Donald Trump engages in

1:04:04the battle space presented to him and that is how he frames his rhetoric that is how he frames his arguments. So my argument about the COVID vaccine is that Operation Warp Speed was largely narrative. He puts on enemy narratives. He wears an enemy paradigm and then he goes right through it as fast as possible. That's what I think he was doing during COVID. The reason I bring it up is because everybody in our audience defends Donald Trump for his rhetoric about the COVID vaccines. But very few people outside of the Badlands audience dare to apply that to what he is doing with the Republican Party or Congress. So they'll say Donald Trump keeps telling you to vote. Yeah, what do you think happens if he says not to guys? Yeah. Because you're the ones giving all this mandate implied mandate to the other side into the system. So let me play a quick clip here of just what

1:05:04Donald Trump was saying on several occasions which I fully and find with him saying. You know, we take care of a lot of people including I guess on December 21st we took care of Joe Biden because he got his shot. He got his vaccine. He forgot. It shows you how unpainful that vaccine shot is. So everybody go get your shot. It works incredibly well. 95 percent maybe even more than that. It works incredibly well. And I would recommend it to a lot of people that don't want to get it. And a lot of those people voted for me frankly. But you know, again, we have our freedoms and we have to live by that. And I agree with that also. But it's a great vaccine. It's a safe vaccine. And it's something that works. I recommend you take it. But I also believe in your freedoms 100 percent. When you have the vaccine, people that do and it's a very small number relatively. But people that do get it get better much quicker. And it's a very important thing to know. They don't get

1:06:07nearly as thick and they get it, but they get better. Lindsey Graham's an example. He said, if I didn't have this vaccine, I would have died. And you know what? I believe totally in your freedoms. I do. You got to do what you have to do. But I recommend taking the vaccines. I did it. It's good. Take the vaccines. But you got, no, that's okay. That's all right. You got your freedoms. But I happen to take the vaccine. The vaccines do work and they are effective. And here is my thing. So I am, I think I save many. I don't think. I know. I save millions and millions of lives throughout the world. We could have had another Spanish flu. We could have had, you know, in 1917, close to 100 million people died, they say. But it was really bad. And now other countries are using our vaccines and, you know, tremendously successful. You're playing right into their hands when you sort of like, oh, the vaccine. If you don't want to take it, you shouldn't be forced to take it. No mandates. But take credit because we saved tens of millions of lives.

1:07:10Take credit. Don't let them take that away from you. Okay. So the president made new. You agree with that? Both the president and I are Vax. And did you get the booster? Yes. I got it too. Okay. So so I want everybody to pause the show and rush out right now because I still think they're offering them. Yeah. Catch up on your boosters. Catch up on the Vax. Obviously it is going to be two people in chat that are mad that I played that. But do you guys remember that? Did you remember that? Did you rush out and get the vaccine? Nobody in our audience did. Nobody in our audience rushed out to get the vaccines. And all of the people in our audience were Trump maximalist at the time he was saying those things. To not be able to even play a little bit of game theory and apply

1:08:12how Donald Trump engaged with an entire paradigm telling you that you need to do something or the entire country freezes in place. Freezes in stasis and in time. To think that he wouldn't maybe do this in other contexts means you haven't learned anything about how this guy operates in my personal humble opinion. When Donald Trump is talking about elections, he is operating in a battle space defined by the enemy and defined by a lot of you. A lot of people who have come to define your sovereignty with elections. When they have nothing to do with it. And the idea that elections have anything to do with your sovereignty or your rights or the Constitution or the Republic is ridiculous, which is to say nothing of whether or not we should have them in the future. It's just to say that cherry picking Donald Trump endorsing

1:09:18congressmen and telling you to go vote and then saying anybody who thinks the elections are fraudulent is undermining the Trump agenda, you better go all the way back to 2021 and start telling everybody who didn't take the shot that they were undermining Donald Trump's oft stated consistent stance that you should take the vaccine. So shut the fuck up when it comes to telling everybody that you have to do what Donald Trump tells you to do. And the whole point of why I wanted to do the magcang tonight is because I believe that you can lead in other ways. I believe you can lead by example. And I do not believe that Donald Trump wants everybody to just do what he says at all times by sacred decree. I think maybe he's been aiming at something a little bit higher. Yeah. And that thing that's a little bit higher is that if your North star is Donald Trump, then you are wrong. And your epistemology is going to be wrong. And your first principle is going

1:10:25to be wrong because at the end of the day, if I would consider myself a loyal subject of King Donald, I have no problem with that concept. I say it's somewhat tongue in cheek because we need to have people taking ownership of their liberties and actually using trial by jury the way they're meant to use it and all that kind of stuff. But that conceptually, it doesn't really matter if it's a king or if it's a congress or whatever. If you're just going along because your leader says to do something, that's not sovereign. That's not you taking ownership of your own liberty. And even people refer to the founding fathers as being like, well, the founding fathers, they set this up. So what? What are the values? What are the core values? That is more important than the man. That is more important than the men. That is more important than the document. And if your justification for doing something is because somebody said so, regardless of who that is,

1:11:29a unit of it's a charismatic and well intentioning person as Donald Trump, you're, you are really, you've lost the plot. We say elections are fake. Chris Paul says elections are fake, not because Donald Trump says they are. That's more of something you point out to counter the people saying that you should vote because Donald Trump says you should vote. We say they're fake because from our own thought process as we have arrived at that conclusion and there's differing layers of what that conclusion actually is. But we arrived there because of our own values that we are applying to reality and trying to interpret reality through those values, not because some person said so. We're not in we are not in a military. We don't have a commanding officer. And Trump is not that commanding officer. And this goes back to speak as we can start transitioning into him as being a king. The era of kingship that I that Spooner likes to talk about in the trial by jury essay is the Anglo-Saxon era.

1:12:34And historians point to the Anglo-Saxon era as being this tumultuous time because there were civil wars and kings would come and go and all that kind of stuff. And rather you can you can see that instead as being a as markers of the strength of that system because if someone came to power as came because they would initially give the the son a shot and once their father died. But if he turned into being a despotic tool bag, they would get rid of him because it wasn't the office they were following. It was the man as in the values that he represented. And if that man no longer represented those values, then he was out. And that is a a good way and they would do that through the trial by jury process and then through civil war. Obviously a little more violent time than we are probably comfortable with today. But you you have to stop appealing to authority even if the authority is one that gets you know pictures and sculptures made of it and you know at like the

1:13:35Hall of American Heroes, all that kind of stuff that Trump wants to you know to put out there, you have to go based on the values and that's something the Anglo-Saxon people understood. They clung to their personal liberty like they would not let go for anything and didn't matter if the king said so or not like we're not doing it. And so when it comes to Trump with a vaccine or voting, if that's your your justification for doing anything, man, you you lost it. Yeah. And again, it's not we're not trying to convince you to do something or not do something either. That's that's been assigned to us. Those are positions that have been assigned to us. But yeah, I want to get I want to get deeper into this mega king discussion and kind of one of the notes I'd written down was like the sovereign king. And you mentioned Anglo-Saxons. We can go deeper into that. The analog that John and I often talk about that John Drake and I often talk about privately is arrogant. John's got his arrogant sword there. I've got the sword of turgon, but it's you know Gandalf commonly used it after the shout out to Gondolin. Still too soon.

1:14:38Follow Gondolin. There's like a polymath will come into the trap. By the way shout out to polymath for surviving a car wreck over the weekend. I'd like to think that it has something to do with him being a token guy as well. And what he was wearing the ring that was like without the driver's in Seattle. He was. Yeah, just that once. So we often talk about Donald Trump. You and I often talk about Donald Trump as analogous to Aragorn. And this is actually an interesting conversation because it's not just only to King, it's a King, it's you know a narrative structure. For once I'm not really talking about narrative structure. I'm talking about the principles that Aragorn in the context of the Lord of the Rings and the War of the Ring represents on many different levels. His bloodline, his life story, the War of the Ring, his arc in the War of the Ring, his reign as King of Gondor and the free peoples of Middle-Earth. You know we can get into a bunch of that. But when I say the Magikang, when Drake says the Magikang, you know the classic

1:15:42conception of a king is somebody who lords over us. That's not really the conception of a king as presented to us by Tolkien. And I would argue and I bet you would argue that the Tolkien conception of a king, specifically the Aragorn template of a king is much more analogous to what you're describing in Anglo-Saxon history of what a king was meant to do. So I wanted you to go a little deeper into that on like the Anglo-Saxon angle, but just as a first principles angle with what Aragorn represents in terms of we can I think it's actually better to end to start with him being king. Talk about how he would lead as King as presented to us by Tolkien. Then maybe we can go back into what made him the right guy to do that in the first place. But just like help people understand what is the difference between a classical, fictional or historical conception of a king as people think about it and the conception of a king as presented by somebody like Tolkien

1:16:47or in Anglo-Saxon history. Well first I would say that prior to him actually being crowned, Aragorn was king from the beginning because he exemplified the qualities of what a king should be. So from going back to the Anglo-Saxons what is recorded even going back to the actual Saxons which was the mainland, the European continent, Germanic tribe, they were written about in the early I think around like 180 or so there was some surviving records of I forgot the Italian or the Roman historian that wrote about how fiercely independent these guys were and describing what their chiefdans and their kings were and it was always the guy that was the frontline warrior and he was someone who had wisdom and he was someone who had mercy and he was someone who

1:17:47executed justice and so you can kind of build this picture of like who's the best guy in the village? That's the king and it wasn't like they held an election it was just kind of recognized everyone just know like and we all know people like this. He just know like okay in this situation like I want this guy to I want him to be I want him to have my back you know when when we're in a fight or in a foxhole or whatever you know think your analogy we all know people like that. That's who became the de facto leaders and whether they were called a king or not that obviously changes over over time. Tolkien obviously understood that he doesn't actually reference the Anglo-Saxon era to my knowledge specifically it's entertaining to go EC was here, Tacitus thank you the Roman historian. Um, he doesn't actually, uh, it's interesting to go through his he's got personal letters that he

1:18:49would write between him and and fans and him and friends and also like his son Christopher Tolkien and the CS Lewis letters are great when they're dispatching at each other. Yeah they used to argue all the time. Yeah exactly and they in those letters too it's like man people just don't talk like the way they used to like yes it just oh man so I love my off and lament this into the deep reaches of the night drink. I exactly. Yeah even even phrasing it like that like people look at you like where I used to work which I'm going to say that again where I used to work because I'm actually fun employed but yeah you try to have some kind of a conversation with with people that was about this type of stuff that's like yeah you're that's dumb like yeah yeah okay go talk about your sports ball but anyway so you can read through his letters and you can kind of get an idea as he flashes out even more than just reading the actual material Lord of the Rings to themselves you can get an idea of of what he thought of of Errorhorn being this servant king of being the best man of being the one

1:19:51that when it came time for the hard decision to be made Errorhorn was the one who was reluctantly but determinedly making that decision and everyone just automatically looked to him because he exuded that there was a sense of charisma but it and I would say that's one area where Trump kind of deviates a little bit from this picture that Trump is more bombastic than Errorhorn it's about the battle space he's in yeah exactly and it's it's we are we are used to the idea of a king being this dictatorial by fiat decree this is how things are going to be in my realm end of story if you know and I'll off with your head if you don't agree that's more like Denathor if we're going to draw comparisons as far as clinging to power at that for the sake of power itself which starts off a lot of times you know think of people going

1:20:51to Congress and having all these these grand ideas of how they're going to make change and then they just become the problem themselves I think Denathor probably started well and then he got poisoned by his own lust for power and all that kind of stuff but we we we're we're in a dated with this idea of monarchy being this horrible concept because this one guy is in charge of everything but that's not the picture of that we see Errorhorn in his friendships that's not the way we see him even once he is king there's he issues a a decree that no man is allowed into the shire not even himself I love that the adict of the shire yeah we were talking about that and I think that's that maybe that gets let's come back to that let's come back to the edict of the shire because I think we should end on that that's kind of like what do we think is going on here but more more to your point about the king it again I always use the word sovereignty we use the word sovereign like a sovereign king use the word servant king servant king one of the things I've

1:21:56said at the guards that always ends up happening when people get me ranting like you did tonight I mean I'm usually coming so peaceful and then somebody just makes me get all fired up but you know one of the things I say is Donald Trump works for us and it's like that's not meant to be a slight he knows he does one of the reasons I really like him and followed him and that he kind of roped me in is this idea that it felt very genuine to me that while you are right that he's very bombastic it is true one of his early infamous speeches it might be the same one that's you know threaded throughout the DPH intro etc a lot of those blended together in 2016 he talks about you know the slings and arrows and he talks about I had I have a great life I had a great life there's no practical reason why I need to do any of this another analog to somebody like aregorn you know you've got the sword behind you over there and that's the sort of strider which is what aregorn was known as

1:22:58before he was publicly known as aregorn because he was raised by the elves and riven del everybody in our audience should know this obviously but this is basically like what what was he do it before long before aregorn was king what was he doing he was basically abdicating not just the throne but abdicating the life that he could fall into at any point he chose which was a life of luxury a life of plenty a life in basically in bliss among the immortals I mean obviously in a fantasy world you can dial this up to like it's not just a king having some good soup and having wrenches whenever he wants and living in a castle it's like aregorn could do anything and be anything and lived in the greatest city in the middle earth that men weren't even allowed to go to unless they were invited like that's the kind of life that he left behind long before he was king to roam the wilds and hunt the denizens

1:24:00of evil to protect sovereign peoples including the hobbits of the shire and others unbeknownst to them never taking by them usually usually being mocked by them never taking any credit for having done so so it's kind of like you know not only is there analogs here with aregorn but you can see even the DNA of characters like aregorn threaded all the way into stuff that I was interested as a kid and still am in terms of you know American comic book myths like Batman is analogous to aregorn right the dark avenger the the dark night the one in the shadows who's fighting for you and you know again we're using it in the realm of US politics but nobody here thinks it's silly to believe that Donald Trump completely upended a paradigm when he crashed into the zeitgeist in 2016 the political zeitgeist of course he was already well known but the the reason I think that so many people especially

1:25:02in this audience really attached to him and anchored to him even if it was subconscious at the beginning I think there was something to the baseline recognition among a certain subset of Americans not just that hey this guy is saying stuff I haven't heard other politicians say but it was more this understanding of this guy does it why is this guy doing this this guy doesn't need this guy doesn't fall into any of the trappings of the incentive structure that we are all we all understand to be the incentive structure of the American political system and the federal government and I think while some people were like oh we just want to do this for money the smarter people who ended up here who ended up becoming you know trumpers always kind of understood on in the Nate level no one of the reasons I started following this guy was because I knew he didn't need to do any of this therefore it leads you down this next after next after next question why is he doing this stuff

1:26:05and for some of us I think you eventually get to the end of that road and you're like you know what I think he just actually believes in it like I've tried to exhaust all these different things and again that's why it's analogous to arrogant where you go like are you in hiding and because you're afraid of the responsibility do you do not want you know like what is it and eventually I think you get to the point with arrogant where you're like no actually to your point this guy is just the best guy and he doesn't want to lord over people he doesn't want to wield power over people he only wants to wield power in defense of people and in defense of freedom and in that way I do think the analogy holds yeah and Tolkien speaks this directly in that the worst person to be a king is the the one who wants it and he he talks about this in its letter 52 in a collection that I've

1:27:06got he said the most improper job of any man is bossing other men least of all those who seek the opportunity and he he referred to himself as essentially an anarchist he said by political opinions lean more and more to anarchy or to unconstitutional monarchy and what he meant by unconstitutional monarchy was basically a king that is so uninterested in being king that he which I think he takes that a little bit more extreme than than the arrogant analogy but he's not a guy who's seeking the power he's a guy who's yeah I want to protect his people but he's not trying to lord it over his people and that's absolutely the that is fleshed out in the character of arrogant in such a beautiful way because of you all the I mean that he's I love that scene and I think it's is it in the extended version where a.o.n. is like how old are you my lord and he's like it is in the special extended addition of the two towers see the thing is like I I was so seldom watch

1:28:10the the actual it's all one movie yeah exactly I don't watch the theatrical release so I don't remember what what is it but um but yeah she like he's like 80 years old and he still lives to be 160 or something like that or 100 I hear how old he was when he when he finally dies but that's a guy who spent 80 years for saking the life that he could have had as you described for ultimately because I would even argue that that he recognized that it wasn't the right time for him to even be king and that had he gone off and pursued his own destiny then you you would have had the the peoples of the shire or of bry in the the surrounding lands around that area would have been overrun while he's a thousand miles away over in gondor and he I think he there's an aspect of that of airborne recognizing the enemy that he was fighting and understanding that there there's a right time and a wrong time to pull the trigger on something which would I think help people to

1:29:13direct to be patient when it comes like why are people arrested or why are this because there's a time for everything and there's a there is a strategic time for uh going after the enemy in a certain way. Error gorn certainly understood that and I think that you could make that parallel to trump as well. We're about to get even nerder on Error gorn since you brought up the extended additions but before we do uh going to thank our final sponsors which uh starting with ourselves we have a new soft disclosure ad guys and this one is important this one undermines everything we have said just in case you guys thought that badlands was anti-elections think again peace between the houses was never meant to last

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1:33:25you won't just be hearing about crypto you'll be using it so thank you to rumble and rumble wallet okay so onto the nerdiness one of the things i love about the as you said the beautiful arc of arrogant is the way tolkid uses multiple names for different people right so he's got arrogant but he's often referred to as arrogant lsr lsr translates directly into elf stone one of the other names that arrogant is given is s stl and he is given this by his mother was it galrian is that how you pronounce her name when we look it up okay you're you're starting to get into a territory that i'm not that's deep galrian galrian so so arrogant's mother and this is hinted at in the extended editions though it's not fully fleshed out but it's one of my it's become one of my favorite kind of

1:34:28little readings of arrogant that Peter Jackson actually does a great job of paying off in a return of the king although that part was in the novel as well so galrian who's arrogant's mother names him arrogant but she calls him s stl a stl in cinder in elvish translates to hope um so she names him hope basically in elvish there's a scene in the extended edition of fellowship of the ring where we're shown a flashback of arrogant leaving riven del with the fellowship before he leaves he's basically praying in front of a statue the statue is his mother and eloron approaches him and basically paraphrasing says um you know she she did her best to protect you she thought we could protect you here uh later on that is paid off in the return of the king when elrond comes to arrogant and gives him and a real flame of the west which is forged as you know

1:35:34from the shards of narseal so it's a new sword and what does arrogant say which narseal for the uninitiated is the sword that cut the ring from saarons hand so the sword that cut the ring from saarons hand wielded by ishildor arrogant's arrogant's grand sire great great great grand sire so elrond brings him the reforge sword of the west translates to flame of the west and he presents it to arrogant and says become the man you leave the ranger aside become the man you were born to be and when arrogant unsheathes the sword from elrond elrond says i bring hope to man and arrogant responds and says i keep none for myself and i remember that scene and it wasn't until last year that that clicked for me of what they were saying in that scene so the surface level reading of it still is great and beautiful he gives him the flame of the west he says arrogant bring

1:36:39hope to man i bring hope to man arrogant says i'm going to be a servant of the people to all the framing that we're talking about tonight i keep none of the hope for myself i give it to everybody else and then you remember and you cry into the deep reaches of the night thinking about how great Lord of the rings is you realize that arrogant's name given to him by his mother is hope and that his mother died bringing hope to men she brought arrogant to the world she names him Estelle she names him hope and she dies and she says that is a quote from Galerian that elrond is repeating i bring hope to men i keep none for myself because she dies you're completing that that quote they are completing that quote wow so and you know just all of which is to say um that when you talk about servant king uh that there is sacrifice there right and when we talk about Donald Trump and as we

1:37:44led into this break with you know there is a recognition and of course we don't know we don't know what some people's hearts were just obviously arrogance of fictional you know myth basically but Donald Trump is kind of a living myth there are myths being constructed about him in real time some of which people like me have contributed to whether these are good bad or somewhere in between but i do think that there is an analog there of somebody that uh that americans in particular can sort of recognize as on paper as a template having all the things that you would need having the life you would need having anything you would ever want and then just making this decision or agreeing to this decision of basically giving that up i know he's still rich i know he has his things i know he's not gonna want for money but if you just look at the service level narrative the guy's been ridiculed drag through the mud supposedly shot at assassinate like assassination

1:38:45attempts and i shouldn't say supposedly i'm saying whatever you're seeing on tv whether or not everything is real or fake who knows theories vary but absolutely people have been trying to kill this guy for the last 10 years probably every hour of every day he's going against he's representing at least to your earlier comments a movement a counterinsurgency against the most subversive and therefore powerful insurgency we've ever seen in the modern world and doing all of it without really having needed to so uh it does make me even stretched to make that connection to arrogant where it's almost like when arrogant unsheathed and a real that is the moment he's actually decided i'm going to sacrifice myself basically and become king yeah which is not the classical conception as of a king as we in the west are often sort of told about it or taught about it yeah and that

1:39:45scene in the in the movies is powerful even without understanding that that backstory which i did not that i i love that um it's more powerful obviously in the books the when when and this is after even that scene would have taken place although obviously in the in the movies they'd change things around um but when he gets to gondor he doesn't show he could have walked into into into gondor gondor ministerial and been like hey guys i'm here get off my chair and that was even after he had uh saved ministerial with the army of the dead and defeated sauerons armies at the gates because that was like the final crushing blow and here comes arrogant obviously the writers of rohan come in and the definitively best seen in cinematic history in my opinion like if you do not get goose bumps and like get that well in your your chest when the writers of rohan crest the hill with the sun behind

1:40:50them then you're dead like that's just for me it's when he says and i you know i didn't recognize this when i first saw the movie when he's uh when theodin is is uh giving his battle cry that they're saying death yeah that's too death i didn't uh i didn't um recognize that the first like years that i that i had seen this and it just makes it so much better oh man it makes it like so much more impactful of why the denizens of evil are terrified of them but it's all tied into this sacrifice theme right because yeah they're not scared that it's guys on horses no they're scared that it's guys on horses to our like we plan to die today yeah and that is terrible many of you orcs as we can with us that's the thing is that after all of that happens in the books then they're kind of like you know they're obviously burying their dead and uh you know fair mere is is is wounded and uh pippin is uh is wounded as well no marie is is wounded um because he helps to kill the the

1:41:53witch king of a mart and uh then you've got uh a o n is also wounded and there's like a hospital and there's like it takes them a while to kind of recruit regroup and recover so they can then make an assault to try to help buy photos some more time and in that course arrogant could have been like hey guys i helped win the battle on the king round he still holds back and then there's actually in the book there's referenced prophecies about how the king the king is going to be a healer and the king's going to be a servant and all this type of stuff and so then the by all of his friends along the fellowship's journey understood who he was right but he still had to prove himself and this this speaks about what tokens view of kingship actually is to the people of which he has rightful hereditary claim as king he still had to prove himself to them whoops

1:42:54uh yeah we go he saw to prove himself to the the people that he's going to end up being king to and he does so by unintentionally really fulfilling a prophecy they had about what the king would be like but that everyone around them is like where do you where's arrogant where they're going oh yeah he's in the hospital tending to the second wounded because he was skilled at doing that sort of thing and so then when it comes down to the the final battle he has everyone in gondor at his back because he'd already demonstrated to them that he was this the fulfillment of the prophecy and that he was someone that that they could get behind and fight behind to the death because he'd already demonstrated as being I mean I see uh margo w saying arrogant as a picture cry so many weights absolutely yes yes for sure which you know that some people get upset when people talk about that so I like I tend to leave it alone but I mean I see these things as just reinforcing the story of Christ when people build fictional templates atop that template I mean Superman Cal

1:43:57L when done best is Jesus you know that's like and some people would say that's a subversion and I don't consider this a subversion at all I consider these echoes that are then being translated to to other generations so in making this comparison we can compare the way that that Trump is is acting like king per airborne they're also that I think it's it's useful to ask questions of like okay so what was arrogant's actual mission what how would he define things like what what freedom is uh is that something that heirloom would actually care about I think he does because the way that is demonstrated in the the context of the larger story is that he becomes becomes king over gondor but he doesn't immediately assume that he's lured over all of middle earth he doesn't then go around and force subservience of all the people he wins he allows Rohan to be Rohan he allows the the shire

1:44:59to be the shire and allows elves to be the elves like he's not imposing his will in in that way on you know he'll fight against someone who is trying to harm those people he'll still act as defender because I think he still ends up going on on wars and Fermi or stays back as uh as steward um in the books anyway um but uh understanding what his overall mission is I think that's important and so where would you see the parallels as far as what arrogant's actual mission was over the course of the books and movies and and how would you see that as comparing to trump well uh one of the things we talked about that I think you brought it up uh is direct I think directly analogous to trump which is arrogant at the black gates which you kind of set us up for very well so you know you mentioned that arrogant basically kind of earned in front of here in the mandate for lack of a better in front of the kingdom of gondor in the most epic sort of corporeal way you could ever earn mandate

1:46:01as a king um you know defeating the army leading the army of the dead first of all um restoring the honor of the met the damned uh so yeah I mean the the jesus analog keeps on going if you thought it it wasn't on the nose enough but so he's literally like able to absolve sin uh from you know men of dishonor in the past so talk about a healer I mean and again as I like that you bring up the healing because it's like one of the things I love about the portrayal of arrogant in the books but but also in the movies and what vigo brings to him vigo mornson is like the big the biggest moments leading the army of the dead absolving the king of the damned of his sins the most biblical possible moments are treated just as seriously as the smallest moments where he just you know choose up some weeds and sticks it into Frodo's wounds because he's a ranger and he knows how to heal people

1:47:08he knows how to make people feel better he knows how to find apples in the woods you know like he's a man of the realm he's a man of nature and that is just threaded throughout him uh but in our conversations leading up to this show you mentioned the black gates and I thought it was a great analog so for anybody who's not familiar with it or who's rusty on uh what happens there as Drake kind of let us into arrogant leads the armies of men you know wins the greatest battle in in the third age the battle of pelinor fields and then as you said he decides to go challenge saueron the dark lord at the black gates at the enemy's house at the enemy territory knowing he couldn't prevail even if his provocation is successful knowing that or not knowing if the people would follow him into doing that but all doing this as basically a distraction for Frodo and the hobbits who are the weakest you know peoples of middle earth but who we were talking about leading

1:48:11into this that are obviously the most representative of the common man that's what Tolkien has said this himself like it's not even you have to stretch to uh to analyze this the hobbits are basically the hobbits and the shire is the picture of ideal i sovereign idealism yeah in the world of Tolkien Tolkien wouldn't even suggest its realism because part of the realism baked into the Lord of the Rings is this idea that the shire can be scoured the shire is vulnerable to events and powers of the outside world i almost take it as an allegace to libertarians that we talk about sometimes when i say if you go full libertarian you're basically going full hobbit now ideologically you're probably in the right to be there yeah but practically you're probably going to end up in a bad place eventually and i think there is that push and pull of the hobbits of being like oh they're

1:49:11carefree they live alone you know they let alone to live alone um they mind their own business they're sovereign the engage in free enterprise etc they don't bother you unless you bother them but they don't have any power projection yeah they can't protect themselves and that's where Errorgorn comes in and with the black gates before we get into the edict of the shire which i think we should end on you made me think of the black gates in light of trump and we we go back to what is Donald Trump trying to do is he trying to save us from the deep state is he trying to save us from the dark lord from the enemy from the government or is he trying to buy us time or inspire us into saving ourselves yeah and one of the terms i wrote down after you made that uh you made that comparison in our private conversation about the black gates is i wrote uh kind of sovereign king provoked a people into self actualizing and you know you can carry that

1:50:18that beyond the third age you can carry that beyond uh the black gates but i think the black gates is a great direct analog of like Errorgorn chooses to meet the enemy head on very publicly in front of all of the people in front of the enemy hoping but not knowing that the sovereigns that he's trying to protect the whole time are going to use that opportunity to self actualize what does self actualizing mean that's up to you but i think generally speaking the uh you know i i don't think it's uh i don't think it's silly to consider that Trump's mission is not just to oppose the enemy i also think a big part of his mission is to inspire a movement within the american people and no i do not mean an open rebellion i mean a self actualizing or as i often have used it in my writing for a long time remembrance a remembrance of sovereignty a remembrance of what americans

1:51:25maybe were or were supposed to be yeah i definitely probably would lean more towards the what we were supposed to be obviously if you rewind back 200 years ago the level of personal freedom that your individual american had is greater than we have today because they've built on the system but yeah the the the Trump being the diversion to allow the sovereign people i think the comment i'd made to you is if that's not the devolution sandwich then i don't know what is um where you have the the individual man you know the the little hobbits having to endorse some danger having to uh literally take the weapon of the enemy and shove it right back down his throat uh which speaks to also there's something that's that's tied in with all this because you know are are to harken back to the the initial conversation about the religious language there is absolutely even in the in the Lord of the Rings uh story there is a sovereign

1:52:32meaning god sovereign element to the whole story because you know the the hobbits took the ring all the way there and it was its power was so tempting Frodo still couldn't let go of it yep and it required golem to bite his finger off which Tolkien refers to and i i can't remember if it's actually in the book or if it's in one of his letters that there was a little bit of grace in that moment that was afforded and that essentially without that help from the god in the the Lord of the Rings mythology that that power that that would not have been accomplished and that's also you start to recognize too that throughout the entire fellowship journey that same because it was like well the hobbits are unusually resilient to that and you could attribute that to just the hobbits within themselves but then also the you know there's certain people there's certain uh cultures that seem to have more of god's favor in some respects to be able to

1:53:35resist uh you know the the the guiles of the of the enemy and for whatever reason the hobbits were you know had that but it's it required that that duel well it's really a trifecta you need the grace from god you need the individual person uh i mean it's Frodo at the individual standing there in the gap obviously Sam two is one of my favorite characters in the whole story um and then you also have to have the the the third leg of the stool of your triumphant king sacrificing himself so that we can accomplish the thing that ultimately we really can't even do on our own we need god's help to do which is absolutely theologically spot on and Tolkien was a was a Roman Catholic i don't agree with all Roman Catholic theology but they you know he's got that part right you know absolutely because that is a direct corollary to our the ultimate fight we have is not against the deep state it's against uh you know sin our itself it's against the devil it's again and that we

1:54:38ourselves are are trapped and enslaved and we need someone to you know to provide that diversionary uh um you know action for us and then give us the grace to carry it through to the end and it's such a beautiful and and rousing story the way Tolkien wraps all that up um and and i think that the history repeats itself there's patterns that repeat themselves in in god's reality and i think that we're living through one that is quite in quite impressive to see and thinking about all this stuff is what helps me through you know i see people in the chat earlier you know well i still can't get over the whole trump and in the vaccine thing like there there's bigger things going on the vaccine thing and at the end of the day like uh the q awakening um or quaking how you pronounce it uh had pointed this out that um arrogant bows down to them in the end of the movie to the sovereign to the sovereigns of the story and i i've been thinking about that this past week too so uh that's cool that he was thinking of

1:55:40the same thing but he like you bow to no one and then the king who's just defeated sauron's armies and reclaimed his rightful heritage and the king is returned after a thousand years or how long it was since the the last king was on the throne and he's like you bow to no one and he bows down to them instead and to me that is beautiful absolutely beautiful and it can be our reality too i think absolutely and this is where again saying Donald Trump works for us yeah and that it's okay to have that posture is not uh a besmirching Donald Trump i believe it's crediting him with the ultimate grace and the ultimate assumption which would be me assuming that his end goal is to do what he said in january of 2017 which is to give the power back to the people and as Drake said

1:56:41earlier in this show tonight what do you think that meant yeah do you really think it meant whether you want to vote or not do you really think the sum total of power to the people rests around obsessing over the results of elections whether they are real or fake and for all the people and there were some trolls in the chat tonight saying it talking about how people died for our right to vote is a total inversion and a disgrace against what people actually die for which is our rights as sovereign men our god given rights that is what people die defending not your ability to participate in an election to see who are lords over you yeah so you know as we as we kind of wrap up i want to return to that edict of the shire because you know there be some people you know part of me even is like i i didn't know if i wanted to talk about the midterms or

1:57:43anything in the you know first hour of the show ultimately obviously decided to and i think it works in light of this conversation i hope you guys think it did work and these are passionate conversations obviously we're passionate about this kind of stuff but i want to kind of wrap this up with the edict of the shire idea because i think it is relevant to the point we've both made about power back to the people donald trump's promise at the beginning of his journey basically is public facing journey in front of the american people and ultimately i think it is related to how whacked out everybody gets anytime we're told by fox news we have to care about this next issue the most that we've ever cared about anything in our lives i don't think the elections themselves are the humiliation ritual as i said earlier i think defining your future your freedom your identity your sovereignty your americanism your spirit whatever it is your culture on the back of whether or not you're going to vote for it or a republican or a democrat on a midterm ballot it is reducing

1:58:49to something that you are not you are much more than that okay i want you to understand that we're not mad at you we just want you to understand that you're much more than that you are much more than filling in a ballot box even if you choose to do that among the many things you are go do it do whatever you want to do do whatever makes you feel like you're helping or like you're expressing yourself narratively actually do whatever you want to do but understand that you're not defining yourself by voting in an election that can't that cannot be verified and even if it can be verified you're not defining yourself by participating in the election of people to lord over you and to return to the eat it to the shire thing with with trump when you brought that up in our in our conversation like a week ago i thought that was just a great way to frame this kind of stuff of of uh because i really had just forgotten it had not thought about it in terms of

1:59:50arrogant uh he doesn't just become like a just king he has this edict which is you know you can take the shire as really representative of a free people an innocent free sovereign people and you can kind of take it home and flesh that out in terms of of why that's such a unique stance he takes with the edict of the shire well yeah so the like i mentioned earlier that the edict is that no man including the king himself may enter the shire um and uh yeah like they're if you're thinking of the of the hobbits as being a corollary to to free sovereign men uh it is someone with absolute power ultimately standing guard and standing watch over those people and even placing for himself the restriction of not interfering he might look you know

2:00:51here of something that the hobbits are doing be like man that seems kind of dumb i should go in there and he there's a hard line that he himself is not even willing to cross and i think that is um from a a sovereign person perspective understanding that that that is arrogance uh you know perspective the the thing the hobbits can do the best then is to live the freedom that has been afforded them to make more hobbit babies to have their you know like like Sam being the gardener have the garden to live the life life to the fullest because this protector is outside your your borders is not going to interfere with you and so you are you are allowed to be your full sovereign person um the idea there too is that the king's actual contribution is not to uh fix all of their individual little problems but to be to remove that exterior threat

2:01:52so that the individuals can then have the freedom to solve those those more day to day um social interaction problems that that just happened as a course of being uh human beings and so it's like out paving the way for people to actually live the life that we're meant to live because there are those forces that are out there that want to step in and interview with fear with you it's like if i had a billion dollars i wouldn't be trying to control people while these billionaires these megalminiacl you know maniacs and it does kind of take another billionaire who's kind of megalminiacl himself to kind of keep those people at bay like you can kind of see that was i think what's happening with a trump with with crypto or trump not crypto but bitcoin and with the whole a i push it's kind of like him be he's created this this edict in a way that's kind of mirrors airgorns that is allowing us the space to build out and follow through with our own sovereignty to the point where ultimately

2:02:53i think because uh you know in middle earth you know in tokens whole cons you know conception of things that eventually sort of becomes the earth that we live in today and you might still see a hobbit running around now and then kind of thing meaning you might still see a free man every now and again in this world that is lost it's it's it's it's plot um but that uh uh creating the system that the circumstances in which we can flourish um and not imposing himself on those systems the fact that trump is is hold is uh encouraging people to get into the crypto space into the bitcoin space is to me is one of the the that's kind of like the plug into the edict of the shire thing because that is the means by which we ultimately express ourselves sovereignly which that another point to to that that i wanted to make was if people are like oh man well what do we do if we're if we're not you know voting that's the wrong question the real question is what would i do or if i suddenly had my sovereignty back and then do that which is why maybe the most based person in the

2:04:01lord of the rings is tom bombadil uh who ultimately doesn't even care what's going on with the war at all yeah it kind of seems to be calling it all fake um one of the most enigmatic characters in all the fiction really uh but seems to kind of know what's going on and seems to know that ultimately uh these are not the type of things that you need to find your life uh yeah around well and but there is a practical you just like what is what would what would it take for me to be what would it take for me to be uh a tom bombadil which that there's a whole conversation about what the the power of the ring actually was and why it didn't work on him and all that kind of stuff but we know what what would it take for me to be sovereign and do the and are there things available that would allow me to be sovereign um i show i mentioned that i went through the kind of the history of the personal banking uh you know system in this country there's a heavy heavy bitcoin tie-in with the spooners poverty essay uh last three weeks have been um kind of going through

2:05:07not the bitcoin aspect of it yet although it's not that contests on that but find what what is it out there that would allow me to express myself in it's sovereign way and just try to do those things and it's not going to come to you from voting because as centralizing system is only going to be get more centralization you're not going to get your solution from you're ultimately not even to get your solution from trump he's going to fight off the big the big guys you have to take ownership of yourself well i love how you said uh the the way you framed the trump is giving us space yeah and what we fill that space with you know literally but maybe most importantly cognitively and spiritually yeah i think is the deal you also reminded me and i've said this quote on the show in different contexts one of my favorite uh works of fiction ever is true detective season one written in uh direct or written in uh produced by nick pisilato great writer uh by the way i'm not a

2:06:11procedural fan i'm not a fan of detective stories i don't like that kind of stuff but i think true detective season one is one of the great works of fiction there's a scene when uh marty says to rust do you think i'm a bad man rust and rust instead of modifying him or doing what you're supposed to do with a friend in that moment he says the world needs bad man marty we keep the other bad men from the door and i've always thought of that in terms of like it takes a certain type to kind of range out and stop the bad thing or impede the bad thing or slow the bad thing and then the hope is that you're a creating space for the good things back home uh and i thought this was a funny little graphic here as we wind down i made this weeks ago but everybody has seen you know the infamous red blue red pill blue pill from morpheus do you want to uh know what the truth is

2:07:19and for everybody out there calling us doomers or anti trump etc this is this is what i'm taking it is just all orange pills both trump orange pills big coin orange pills sovereign pills however way you want to slice it um one little tidbit on that uh note because i uh i had i had asked the machine about it after i was like am i saying a true thing about estel and hope and all that so it turns out i was right about that i didn't just make that up uh but uh it's actually even a little bit more poignant than that um that that is a poem uh or that is the last line of a poem that gal ran says to her son arrogant on her deathbed and the context of that scene is that arrogant is trying to comfort his mother who is succumbing to despair so you know in in lord of the rings and as you're familiar Drake there's kind of this idea especially among the elves in the immortals that like they can die they can waste from despair pretty much they can literally do

2:08:24mount to death um if they lose hope they die and this is what almost happens to arwin in the third age but uh arrogant's mother gal ran does die basically of despair and arrogant is trying to comfort her and so when she says that she's actually saying it in the context of that um she's doing out and she says i'll read it in elvish oh nne estelidane uchebin estelanim i give hope to the duna dane i keep no hope for myself so arrogant himself did not understand what she was saying when she died uh until he gets older and understands that's why she called him estel because she's saying this is why i don't need the book's people it's great man it's but it's it's her saying i have succumbed to despair oh but that's why i made you and you will never succumb to despair

2:09:28and uh you know it's it's great stuff i do think it's analogous um but do you want to hang out for a few minutes for rants yeah i'm good where do you go to run all right let's run through rants hope you guys enjoyed that i might employ man it's great he has not yet succumbed to despair uh yeah i saw you out there scroung around buying trailers oh yeah building decks putting the fear existential fear of termites into my mind uh yeah what recommend if i just don't think about it i i'm sure it's fine yeah until the floorboards just collapse and i fall into the basement that does happen but anecdotally for that when when we finally figured out where the termites were coming into our house and then i i we we we we we remod i witt it's due remodeling on the house until that was done and so i like compelling drywall off and on the back side of the drywall was just

2:10:30this chaotic maze of mud tubes that they had and they would eat the paper so the paper was like they wouldn't eat the actual gypsum they would just eat the paper and then they would head eaten my i don't know how the front of my house was standing all of the studs on that section where i found them they had eaten the soft pith out of the in between the harder layers of the the pine you know the you know layer the rings on on the in the boards because there's like on in pine it's got like hard soft hard soft they eat all the soft out and these were old from the 60s so kind of old growth um lumber so the rings were real closely spaced together so it looked like vertical stacks of paper with gaps in between them and it and it was like oh my gosh how's my house still standing it was so crazy i got to get an inspection i think yeah yeah i don't know and then when when they say yeah you have termites then you just get it get your nicest bottle of

2:11:32bourbon and you have staker ragged on the top and get it nice and soaked and then you'll like it throw it your cash per lock out well we're gonna build a new one so yeah oh my god hopefully not um all right we got to have looked into how to commit insurance right anyway i hope you guys also enjoy advice about termites yeah i've had no like overt signs that i have termites i just kind of assume it because this side of my house is a hundred years old yeah but i've never seen them so maybe i'm fine i don't know if you would ever see them coming in uh tom terrific sent 25 bucks over for the cause thank you very much guys anything you send over will be split with Drake so he can buy one loaf of bread for his starving children that he is committed to uh to whatever ends he now seeks so thank you tom we had snowcat who gifted a sub over here thank you snow and vote 20 bucks looking forward to listen tomorrow thanks guys we'll hope

2:12:36you like i hope you guys forgive me for yelling at you earlier i'm sorry i did that you know how i get i just get a little it's not you i'm yelling at you know this it's it's the general you that i'm yelling at that's what i do it's my thing it's not you it's me uh by the way stick around after the rants guys because i've got a a special song from a badlander that i'm going to play before the outro to this show and you are going to love it uh polymathan on ten bucks thank you for the well wishes house of mini talo and house of drick love you brothers and thank you for not being dead polymath yeah uh glad you're not dead uh so you know keep it that way i guess stop being you know be responsible and joy writing and doing whatever you were doing jack and hole gifted a sub over thank you salvish ten bucks Jonathan i wrote about you being the first to say don't vote in my song but i think they didn't pick you because you're too good to be a villain that's a compliment well uh miss is bright was in the chat earlier tonight saying that uh you were accused of being a sock

2:13:40account during this whole op that was a couple which is when you know it's very genuine yeah she was like my husband talks to him on a regular basis like and has met him physically in person it's they pointed to the fact that my my twitter ex account is i started like 2009 and i have like 238 followers it was like yeah oh my gosh look at this followers yeah like yeah maybe i just don't play your stupid incentive game well the good thing is you can't buy that kind of stuff you know you can't buy followers likes views or anything like that uh so thank god nothing like that's going on next but i hate every time people i i've said uh every time i thought i was being too paranoid in this stuff it ends up that i wasn't being paranoid enough and uh it turns out that these struggle sessions as you guys have witnessed are not organic i definitely believe they are paid i do not believe it's just useful idiots i believe some of them are paid and i believe there's a reason that conversations like this and communities like this threaten this systemic culture of uh adherence

2:14:49to the system emerald dragon red and obnoxious new England Italian accent great nerd spurred tonight you faggot truly great show ps misspellings don't matter to me go fuck yourself much love all right thank that sounds like i could have written that and says people are confusing what soldiers of fun died for because the only right granted to 14th amendment us citizens is the right to vote everything else is a privilege us citizens are the second class uh well and that may well be true but i am less focused personally on what any of the pieces of paper good or bad say our rights are and i'm a little bit more focused on kind of that god thing of uh what our rights are supposed to be but i appreciate it counter insurgent love the discussion l- Lord of the rings geek you will be into the you will be granted into the halls of mandos ec was here gondolin was an inside job those who tell you otherwise are not to be trusted well said uh yeah i read the similar alien like 50 times that's my favorite actually

2:15:52i need to read in this a long time definitely written in a much different way than the the series is uh you know much less of a narrative but some of the passages in that i'm a sucker every time i read it i'm a sucker for the uh thing golfens ride to challenge morgoth in uh in hang band that is just incredible stuff we don't have kings like thing golf and anymore babbage says oh sea shafts left a ten dollar super chat over on youtube while an activist Miami judge just threw it up prosecution of an illegal who voted and said the congress cannot block illegal voting well there you go that's how legitimate it all is so things are going well black cat destroyer there are many options to explore to help make changes in local communities that does not involve the use of fake elections try to think of those options try to think of what those options are without referring to taking up arms totally agree which is why you guys only see troll accounts advocating for violence which is when they get banned catherine finlay ten bucks thanks

2:16:57for pushing us beyond our comfort zones great show thank you catherine and salbash ten bucks more on your hope topic bb proverbs thirteen twelve king james version hope deferred make it the heart sick but when the desire come if it is a tree of life yeah whoo that's not you know there's some good stuff in the family heavy heavy read the book of proverbs at all i know you haven't read a whole lot of scripture no the book of proverbs if you think about it in in the context of of god sire and he so thinking of god as being like in charge of his creation that's my that's what i think scripture teaches but the book of proverbs is like the closest you'll get to a book of probabilities it's describing the nature of the reality that god has created if you do this then likely this will happen you know if you are only like if you're only thinking of the moment then the trouble's going to come and you're going to you know fall flat on your face kind of thing go look to nature go to the

2:18:00ant you sluggard consider her ways and be wise you know she stores up food for the in the summer for the winter and you know things like that where it's it's a book of wisdom in a book of in general if you if you live according to wisdom in general it will go well for you it's a there's there's all kinds of great nuggets in there like that like too much honey you'll make you puke that's one of my favorites too they throw they throw some of those in yeah the big big picture stuff and the small picture stuff yeah but that's the true thing i too much a good thing is actually you know yeah i think we have a boost from carrying the fire who sent 10 bucks over for the narrative i've listened to just about everyone over the last five years as i sifted my way through the info war now i spend 80% of my time at badlands you've earned it the rest is spent at crypto rich excited you guys have been going on good for you yeah i'm gonna be joining rich yeah those have been some fun uh those have been fun get to spurge out kind of in directions that feel like old hat to us but they're not yeah um they're not for a lot of people i'm actually

2:19:01gonna be talking to him again this week i think those were just on there again so yeah fun stuff check out the rich does politics channel and if you thought i was done i do want to give one more shout out to just how brilliant the Estelle line is because i didn't realize this till now but token thought of everything here's the elvish on any Estella dane uchebin estelle anine the stelle means hope right so in the written form it tells you right there she says i give hope to men i keep no hope for myself but when she says i give hope to men it's capitalized but when she says i keep none for myself it's lowercase so she is saying i gave you to men you are the hope to men i keep none of the hope for myself and again i already said that but just token knew what he was doing he was cooking there

2:20:06with that Estelle and uh yeah that that that was one of those like keys that went into the lock like six months ago for me where i was like wait sidebar question real quick if you suddenly were able to sit in a room with token and like you knew you had an afternoon with the guy how long would it take you before you feel like you could actually get a conversation going like i feel like i would be like shuttered up by the the the dominance and brilliance of that guy i don't even know where i would go right that's what we say like where do you even start yeah well your books are awesome one of one of my favorite passages was from his um his letters it just says as a as a nerd talking cool let me see if i remember it uh yeah okay so i was a big fan of legolas as a kid now like arrogant's my favorite when i was a kid it was like he was the coolest in terms of the action scenes and stuff i still really like that

2:21:09character even though he doesn't do a ton in the books um but i i used to push back on people when they're like he's too powerful he's too like overpowered or whatever in the movies and i'm like did you read the books because that's kind of how the elves are in the books yeah so anyway there's a quote from Tolkien to cs Lewis where he's describing um like some of the things that annoy him about people's interpretations of Lord of the Rings and one of the things he is ranting about is the portrayal of legolas in paintings and in adaptations of Lord of the Rings where now orlando blooms a pretty boy or whatever but they do portray him as like this unyielding badass yeah whereas before that it was always like this floaty like elfie kind of fairy guy in paintings and all this kind of stuff meanwhile you'd have barameer and gimli and aragorn and so he had this quote that

2:22:12i always used to hit people with in like legolas debates he says quote he was tall as a young tree live immensely strong able swiftly to draw a great war bow and shoot down a nasi goled endowed with the tremendous vitality of elvish bodies so hard and resistant to hurt was he that he only went in light shoes over rock or through snow legolas was the most tireless and unyielding of all the fellowship and just the way like you said earlier that's him just writing a letter to his friend right but it's like i used to hit people with that who thought they were token nerds and they'd be like legolas is a pussy and i'd be like actually a pussy but yes exactly i think he does a good job as legolas all the time as far as that plaque i had to throw your scent one over at the at the break question for john drake have you ever studied legitimacy versus illegitimacy from a biblical perspective did it include examining the tree of knowledge of good and evil i was ill say hit

2:23:13me up on my telegram uh for for that because i need to know exact more about what you mean by legitimacy versus illegitimacy all right guys well thanks for joining us thanks drake for joining me and giving me the excuse to go into the tulkine and rabbit hole that i want to go into on the show every week but i i resist as much as i can one must you'll be back on wow you know what are you working on on on on a on a in spooner world the poverty uh yeah the poverty essay it's a long one so it's going to be a long series and the it is it is the essay that really opened my eyes to how powerful bitcoin actually is and the bankish the short of that is it's not you don't think of it as money think of it as a digital continent upon which things are built that can generate as spooner talks about they can generate credit upon the network yeah and so that it is and we started getting into that a little bit tonight uh it was it's i love this essay

2:24:19it is absolutely powerful completely revolutionize your the way you think about finance and banking and money and all that kind of stuff have you looked into what bestsnt uh is doing with the stablecoins or release theories around what he's doing because i think i'm not deeply now okay so you would enjoy it on this new rabbit hole uh i believe us stablecoins are going to present the rail for a transition into a new era of free banking that's what i think their endgame is and brief version right here as you said earlier current banks from local banks all the way up to central banks are fiat banks right yeah it's not just that it's fiat currency it's that they're lending against uh fractionalized reserves to the tune of 20 x or maybe even more right so currently it's zero like so literally they a bank literally has to have zero in reserve and can loan out whatever they want yep so fractional reserve banking that's your local bank can do that

2:25:23as long as they get the credit from the other fake banks up the chain stablecoins part of the genius act part of uh some of these other executive orders i believe it was the genius act i could be wrong about that but part of trump's framework and best since framework around the proliferation of us stablecoins which is related to rumble tether is the biggest us stablecoin company right now the uh the executive orders stipulate and what they want to put in place is that stablecoin issuers must hold reserves oh yes yeah i have heard the commit commiserate with the value yes that they are printing essentially yeah so my sort of theory on this is that they are literally propping up a new industry of collateralized bank banks that are private banks that have balance sheets commiserate with the value of dollars that they are putting into circulation and the reason the banking industry is trying to outlaw stablecoin issuers is because that's going to be

2:26:30the real bank versus the fake bank or at least one and yeah and people need to read the the poverty essay it's more like a book it's a hundred and fifty or sixty pages long but spooner describes banking as fundamentally different and uh then what we're used to and a huge part of that is a a one for one value system where you can't loan out something you don't have and that's our current banks they they loan out something they don't have and that's what creates the business like old the bubble and burst and all that so i do remember that seeing that about the stablecoins thinking about in terms of even whether it's the the rails to guide us onto the system but even psychologically in thinking about yeah what finance is meant to be and getting people back to the idea of you can't give something away that you don't have um and so yeah that's that stuff is huge but um yeah people need to read that poverty essay it's it's one of my favorites of is for sure

2:27:31simple concept but those are the best ones those are first principles all right thanks for joining me john uh next week guys i'll let you get out of here i'm going to play a little song for the people before the outro uh and uh i'll see you next time man cheers peace all right guys uh next week i'm going to do i'm been alternating recently i'm going to do my uh solo show next week that i wanted to do a couple of weeks ago but i was sick for like 10 days after vegas um so we're going to just spurge out next week and then uh you know we're gonna keep doing this alternating hope you guys enjoyed the show please hit the thumbs up button uh if you want to send a boost over you can when you're watching on monday or twosday uh otherwise i'm gonna leave you with a song from our badlander salbish and uh SW i believe that's that's her SW girl and telegram chat uh made this uh over the weekend and it's pretty damn funny in light of the badland struggle session so i'll play

2:28:32this then i will get into our intro outro and then i will bid you all a do remember the war is a story the story is a war act accordingly see you guys next week shipwrecks it maybe i just won't vote and half of x damn near had a stroke badlands is an I vote now that's a hell of a text somebody tell why we vote when that shank can't come take a break my rise of time order ain't even here yet now we need why we don't vote well shit they swore this time they finally had us funny who was training again we been called worse we've heard it before you kick up before we dig a little more nobody here needs everybody to agree with a hell the fun and that gonna be still here still being still like i still laughing still saying whatever the hell we find no pure it is no permission slip say your piece take the heat don't lose your

2:29:34shit you can rock stretch till everybody we're done we'll be over here still having fun they tried to drag badlands down again reminding me who was trending in the who was trending in the Jonathan Drake's in the corner quote and I saying this boon this saying don't vote forever nobody know the sooner our office says vote Josh reads his vote Chris Paul says the premise is faking gay next note from that Trump's being nice while the temperature climbs cam's keeping it fair with no pants on this time jatri is growing the beer despite mad amargies decree jordan's chicken argument for extra terrestrial activity exact ball receipts a four hundred pages he'll connect every time for the next show changes new man's looking around like what the hell did I join shipwreck still shipwreck and g-money's doing fine the call shipwreck the black sheep oh honey have you met g-money then be big is rolling and you know what's coming

2:30:37hold him in his later and the man still running and just when you think he might be winding down take your fowl steaming bargains and go yonder with them yonder meanwhile the b-i-c's decoding some new 17 bailtuses and a cute dropper two rumor has it make it to her symbols and old friend we couldn't possibly come in moving on ash has her own advice when somebody gets slick a satchel of riches every last one we don't always land in the very same place nobody's asking anybody to fall into place friction ain't a fraction questions ain't a crime and nobody around there needs a party line you can disagree and still have somebody's back turns out grown ass people can handle that and then if that sounds dangerous from where you sit well we got a pretty high tolerance for bullshit still here still here still laughing still saying whatever the hell we think no piver detest no permission

2:31:42slip say your piece take the heat don't lose yo shit call us come spears the nearest retouch whatever fits we've been called work by people we actually like tell the whole world bad lands is done again hell tell them twice but before you hit sand who was trending bad lands bad lands now somebody check on the new man you we were sleeping i've been sleeping and turning away from the truth i wanted not to face there is a room that won't hear at the center of the galaxy there is a darkness

2:32:44reaching like rust into every and to everything we want us we let it go with the alwety have any men of you kill him alone i don't know 50 100 cancus cancus has a nice room too and i'm in your lives if you say half a million population of kings landing tell me if your precious friendy commanding you to kill your own thought and stand by one thousand of men when you can't handle i've just done it which you've kept your old dead our time has come we prepared we go stronger were you arrested in your cradle of power you were trusted to lead the republic

2:33:47but you were deceived you assumed no force could challenge you now finally we have returned the visions are clear now i see possible fuchsias all at once more enemies are all around us and in so many fuchsias they prove i do see a way there is a narrow way through it's not a prophecy it's a story that you keep telling but it's not their story it's yours they deserve to be let by one of their own what you're people think this world is heartbreaking we gave them something to hope oh yeah i don't hope we have survived by hiding from them by running through but they are the gatekeepers they are guarding all the doors they are holding all the keys which means that sooner or later someone is going to have to fight them

2:34:49we see the visit should we hold you to suicide the way doesn't help for them to decide all the world is dying for what to do with the time of his game forget me i did not say i have felt you all in full pain you can't do it i do not know what strength is in it very swear to you i will not let you get sick how our people fail all of people all of people i wish you could fort you in the war to come and now it begins

2:35:50no now it ends you well