The Jill Bennett Show: September 30, 2026

0:00Where some see heroes and other see-egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. While others follow the noise, we follow the money. Learn more at Bloomberg.com. Hello and welcome to the Jill Bennett Show Podcast. Today we take a look at a BC Supreme Court ruling. It has to do with staying drug trafficking charges. It also calls for a change in the federal law. Is the ruling the right one? Also, Jody Wilson-Ray Bold, former Justice Minister in Attorney General and best-selling author joins me. And we also look at a squamish homeowner who has taken an unusual approach to scaring away bears. How he came up with the idea that's all coming up on the Jill Bennett Show Podcast. We are talking more about a court ruling that has to do with the Vancouver Drug User Liberation Front. And you've likely heard about this on the news as well.

1:01This judgment is a full vindication of their actions and running that club. And saving lives means that, you know, I'm a criminal and I'm going to jail. That's just the way it is. The voices there of Jeremy Calacum and Eris Nix, who were charged with trafficking after supplying drugs to members of a compassion club. Well, we have now had that court ruling, the judge hearing this case found there was no legal pathway for that kind of non-medical, safer supply program and has given the country about six months to come up with one. Well, joining me now to break this down even more is DJ Larkin, the executive director of the Canadian Drug Policy Coalition. DJ Larkin, thank you for being with us. Thank you for having me. What does this ruling actually mean when it comes to, well, the fact that these two had been charged with drug trafficking? What does this ruling do to that? So the convictions have been stayed and this is an enormous relief.

2:06Two young people who saw their friends community members dying took action to save lives. And as a result, they have been caught up in criminal court proceedings for about three years now. And the judge made it really clear in court. It's time for them to be able to move on and to do in her words really good things in their lives. But weren't they technically or maybe not technically, we do have drug laws in this country. Were they not breaking the law? So we do, but the highest law in Canada is the constitution. And so that is what yesterday's decision was about. Yes, they were in contravention of one section of the Control Drugs and Substances Act, but ultimately what the court found is that that section of the criminal law, as it relates to this compassion club, this really thoughtful evidence-based controlled program, doesn't meet constitutional standards. And the constitution is a higher level.

3:06So yes, they broke the law, but it's because the law needs to be changed. And so rather than convicting them, what we have to do is change the law so that it actually upholds safety and rights. I think when people hear this story, one of the parts of it that really sticks out is the fact that they purchased these drugs on the dark web, did test them, but then were able to sell the tested heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine, during in this compassion club. Even with this ruling, does that open the door then that anybody could do that? No, it doesn't. So first thing to know is that they spent a really long time, years, working with the federal government with public health personnel, with health authorities, with researchers, trying to get the federal government to authorize a legal compassion club where they could purchase substances legally that were properly regulated. The federal government said no, and so they had no other choice. And that's why they turned to the dark web.

4:09This does not mean that anyone could do that. This decision is about one program that was really rigorous based in evidence, worked with expert researchers, well controlled and really, really thoughtful. This doesn't just mean the law doesn't exist more generally. The judge in this case giving Parliament six months to change the law. It's anticipated, I think, that this will be appealed. What does that mean for any actual changes? Well, right now, as of today, the federal government has six months. That will stay in place unless they request an extension. Even if they appeal this decision, they would need to request an extension to give them more time. And after six months, that piece of legislation is no longer an operation. So they should get moving now. We anticipate this will get appealed to the BC Court of Appeal and then likely to the Supreme Court of Canada for like an ultimate decision. What do you say to critics of this ruling?

5:12I want to play for you the comments from in BC, our Transportation Minister, Mike Farnworth, as well BC conservative Claire Rote. We're appalled by this decision. We have federal drug laws for a reason. This needs to be appealed as soon as possible because it can have serious consequences, not just here in British Columbia, but indeed right across the country. It's completely unacceptable. I don't care. Drug trafficking is drug trafficking and that's the reality. They knew they were breaking the law. And what we're doing here is actually blurring the lines of the law. It's a very dangerous precedent. What do you take from those responses? I don't want to make light of it, but they're almost comical and how ill informed they are. First of all, the police actually knew about what Delph was doing and there were members of the Vancouver police who were supportive of these actions. And this does not blur the lines around the criminal law more generally. This type of constitutional decision happens all the time and it is in fact how we get to a place where we have the rights and the services that people rely on.

6:17It is, you know, actions like these thoughtful types of actions that got us two places where we have HIV care, where we have reproductive health care, where we have same-sex marriage. This is not about blurring the lines. This is actually about clarifying what should be criminal and what shouldn't be criminal. And this judge was really clear that when you are acting in the public interest, you are taking actions that have no negative outcomes for other members of the community and you are saving lives. That's not something you should be prosecuted for. DJ Larkin, we'll leave it there for today. Thank you for joining us and talking more about this ruling. Thank you for having me. My next guest, though, is very well-known to listeners. Joining me now on the program is Canada's former Minister of Justice and Attorney General. Jody Wilson-Raybold also served as Regional Chief on the BC Assembly of First Nations, also a former MP for Vancouver Grandville and a best-selling author. And with a new book out called

7:19The In-Between Leader and Jody Wilson-Raybold joins me now on the line. Thank you for being here. Yeah, thanks for having me. It's a pleasure. You have written a new book called The In-Between Leader. It starts with an anecdote about the fact that it almost didn't happen at all. Can you tell us a bit more about how the book came about and the title? What is an In-Between Leader? Yeah, the title, The In-Between Leader, Cultivated Encourage and Unity in a complex world. I open up the book by talking about, as you say, the book almost never got written. Because I have over the last year of face and challenges in terms of health, but I seem to have come out the other side. And I'm grateful for that. And I'd always questioned through various leadership roles what type of leadership I, or leader I am, what type of leaders we have out there and more and more people

8:21over the years have come up to me and reflected how they're grappling with their own identity and actions as leaders. But what importantly underlies this book is that I've seen a shift or heard a shift in how people are thinking about leaders and moving away from what leaders are actually doing to trying to understand where have all the leaders gone. And that's the question really that opens the book. And when I talk about what it means to be an In-Between Leader or an In-Betweener, it's kind of a really simple concept in terms of recognizing that we live in, I believe, a society where we see forces pulling people together, but also paradoxically at the same time pulling people apart. And to be an In-Between Leader is somebody that harnesses those forces of pulling together and pulling apart and assist in ensuring that the goal is to pull people

9:28together. And the idea comes from thinking about and we're on Truth and Reconciliation Day today, thinking about the work of reconciliation and the differences that exist between and among us as individuals between Indigenous and non-Indigenous peoples and the silos that have been built up as, for example, as a result of the colonial legacy. And In-Betweener is one who can bridge those silos and tear them down and build understanding between people. So the book provides some very practical practices and highlights specific attributes of what it means to be an In-Between Leader in this moment in time. I want to talk more about the silos that you just mentioned, but I also want to ask you about a word in the book, the the Linos, which stands for Leader in Name Only. I thought it was so interesting the way you wrote about that. And you write

10:34that Linos have always presented themselves very clearly to me. What does that mean? Well, I mean, I think that we can all sit back and reflect whether it's on current public leadership or leaders in our own workplaces. People that talk the good talk, but don't necessarily follow up their good talk with concrete actions on the on the ground. I think that and I was recently watching some of the speeches from national leaders at the United Nations. And leaders tend to talk about unity and about cooperation and working together and from my experience about 99% of those leaders their speak is just empty rhetoric. I mean what I mean by leaders in Name Only is achieving an office or a particular position is not the end goal. And simply by virtue

11:39of an office does not make one a leader. And so that's leaders in Name Only is the line of the acronym that we talk about in the book. But the reality is it's really hard to translate those words of unity and cooperation into practical and meaningful actions on the ground. It takes an incredible amount of work. And when we see leaders that are actually translating their words into actions, I think a lot of us, particularly in this moment in time, are surprised. So what we wanted to do in the In-between Leader is to again provide those practical practices and highlight the attributes that make an In-between Leader somebody that's able to move beyond rhetoric or empty words, but actually say what they mean and do what they say.

12:40People will know your history as Attorney General and the different portfolios that you held. And in the book, you have, I don't have the quote right in front of me, but there was one passage where you don't, you talk about Justin Trudeau as being, oh, actually I do have the quote in front of me. You said, I think some people associated Justin Trudeau and the bold actions he was taking with being a strong leader, but it soon became clear to me and many others that these actions were typically hollow and not grounded in firm commitments or followed through to affect real change. Is that what you mean by an In-between Leader? Yeah, I mean, I believe that there are many In-between Leaders out there. I've met a lot of them. I think we have a bit of a deficit in terms of In-between Leaders in our public space, in public offices. That's not to say that there aren't anybody or won't be any,

13:44but I've had the privilege and I'm sure that you can think about times where you have met individuals who are making dramatic changes in their own workplaces or their own environment, but people who move beyond their words, people who aren't speaking hollow words or being performative. I've spoken a lot about my previous boss when I was a minister and we could spoke about the principle that words have meaning and what I mean by that is and again, we're on reconciliation, truth and reconciliation day, when we speak about reconciliation, what do we mean by that? How do we translate things like the UN Declaration or truth and reconciliation commission report into practical and meaningful benefits on the ground in our communities? In-between Leader is somebody that has the attributes and the skills

14:49that recognizes the diversity and difference between and among us and celebrates and seeks to highlight and amplify the capacity within everybody around them to contribute to finding the solutions that we need to the complex issues of our time, including reconciliation. I want to pause there. My guest is former Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, Jody Wilson-Raybold. We are talking about her new book, The In-between Leader, more on this when we return. We're some C-Heroes and other C-Egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. While others follow the noise, we follow the money. Learn more at Bloomberg.com. Show blood in here. Football is finally back and prize picks is going crazy with the deals to start the season, giving out promos every day in September. On prize picks, you can make all the picks you want, all in the same app. And now, prize picks is available nationwide. So what are you waiting for?

15:54Lock in for kickoff because everyone and everything is on prize picks. What you want? Download the app today and use Co-Spotify to get $150 InstaLian lineups if you win your first $5 lineup. Prize picks, run your game. Continuing now, my guest is former Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, Jody Wilson-Raybold. Talking about her new book, The In-between Leader and there's a passage in the book and you write about conditions on reserve and off reserve. And people driving through these different places and noticing a real difference. And you write that in Canada in 2026, there remains a legal framework under the Indian Act that maintains segregation. So how can we even try to tackle reconciliation while that remains part of Canadian law in 2026? Yeah, it's a great question. And I think a lot of Indigenous authors and Indigenous advocates

16:56have been, including myself, have been working to get rid of the Indian Act, which is that piece of legislation that still controls for the most part the lives of First Nations people in this country. And over the last many years, there have been strides to assist Indigenous people and create the space for Indigenous peoples to rebuild their nations within a stronger Canada. I mean, sure, there are distractors who want to take us back. We witnessed some of that in that horrible event that happened the other day in Cameloop. But for the most part, I think that individuals want to and recognize, want to assist in removing the last vestiges of colonialism in this country. And I think that those individuals and leaders and politicians who want to hold offices need to

18:02recognize that addressing the unfinished business of consideration of recognizing Indigenous rights in this province and across this country can only be good for the federation. And you know, sometimes we take two steps forward and three steps back, but we're going to continue to step forward and old pieces of legislation like the Indian Act, thankfully, and hopefully will continue to replace those colonial pieces of legislation with rebuilt Indigenous nations that are self-governing and continue to contribute to the province and the country. And when you look at that as well in BC, and specifically at this profit in this province, we do have a provincial election taking place right now. There is talk, although it didn't come up

19:06as one of the top concerns of people in one of the recent polls, but certainly there has been a lot of discussion lately about DRIPPA, about the Cowachan Court decision, about private property rights, about consultation and investment. What kind of leadership is needed or is it possible to find a way to work out those very, very difficult topics, those difficult things, and find a place to get everybody on the same page? Yeah, I'm hopeful that, I mean, I continue to be hopeful, just as I know so many people continue to be hopeful that they're, and I know that there are solutions out there going into this election, and I've read some articles too that doesn't put Indigenous issues high on the priority list, but I, or DRIPPA, high up, but I do know that Indigenous

20:07rights and reconciliation are things that are not going to go away, and I'm sure there'll be some discussion about DRIPPA and what to do with it. I believe and know that there are principles and pragmatic pathways to move forward that are available. The premier EBE and his government, in my opinion, had no clear vision on reconciliation or how to advance it, likewise, you know, people wanting to form governments, don't necessarily have any better approaches, and many of those individuals prey on fear and create confusion about what reconciliation means, about property rights. And I know this from my decades of experience in Indigenous issues, is that Indigenous peoples and nations want to find their way into a stronger

21:13province and a stronger country and the private property interests and the ownership, fee-simple ownership has never been on the table. There's a fear that has been created by people who seem to want to detract from the progress that has been made or take us back, but what I'm confident in is British Columbia is in this election that will continue to highlight the issues that are important, and certainly I know that Indigenous issues are one of the major outstanding issues facing our province and country and we'll have to be dealt with. And finally, I want to go back again to the first question, the book starts with where have all the leaders gone. How do we get leaders back? I know, well, you know, being in public office is very challenging and takes a lot from somebody. How do we get the leaders, the ones who who do bring people together who figure out these solutions and lead?

22:17Yeah, I, the book ends. Well, the book is intended to be hopeful and we can see some leaders in public life that have qualities, leadership that we admire, although that seems to have been waning in the last number of years, but the hope is that we all will be at some point in our lives called upon to lead in different ways and in different environments, but, you know, I go into a lot of, in each chapter of this book, speaking about my upbringing as a proud Kaua Kaua Kaua woman and bring forward some of the lessons and teachings of what it means to be a leader in my culture and one of the key lessons is that everybody in the community or more broadly in society has a role to play in ensuring that the society functions properly and that every voice

23:20matters. I see in between leaders all around us in my daily lives and my encounters and I'm optimistic that through not only springing this book, but people reflecting on their own leadership and what they can do and what they can bring to the challenges that we face in our daily lives and more broadly than that that we will cultivate a collection of in-betweeners that can tackle the important issues that we're facing and that we'll do it together and build a shared future. Jody Wilson Ray Bold will leave it there for today. Thank you for coming on the show. Yes, pleasure. Thanks for having me. Where some see heroes and other see egos, Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. A fad to some, the future of money to others. We see crypto's trillion dollar swings. The end of jobs or the end of human struggle. We see the endless funds fueling the AI hype

24:25while others follow the noise. We follow the money. Learn more at Bloomberg.com. Show button here. Football is finally back and prize picks is going crazy with the deals to start the season giving out promos every day in September. On prize picks, you can make all the picks you want all in the same app and now prize picks is available nationwide. So what are you waiting for? Lock in for kickoff because everyone and everything is on prize picks. What you want? Download the app today and use code Spotify to get $150 instantly in lineups if you win your first $5 line up prize picks. Run your game. Currently, the RDN has no complaints about this property and the RDN being a large region and having only a number of file enforcement officers. The board has has enacted a policy where we only pursue by our enforcement on a complaint driven basis so that we can best utilize our resources. That is the voice of Stuart McLean with the regional district of Nanaimo speaking to global news

25:28about an encampment that has been in place for quite some time in Nanaimo and as you heard there, saying that there has not been a complaint so the district has not investigated. Well, that prompted this response. I think that's the worst cop I've ever heard. I'll just say out of mind, you know, most people's apathy range supreme. That is Mike Gogo, the owner of Gogo's Christmas tree farm and Mike Gogo joins us now on the line. Thank you for being with us this afternoon. Yes, thank you. And yes, I've been by the proprietor of the old Gogo homestead here. It's been here since 1897. I just love to add that this part are 97th years, only Christmas trees here and any single mother that's having a tough financial year, they get a free tree, not just a tree, a tree of their choice. But anyhow, that property, I'm very familiar with, the guy who owns it, he's had it for 25 or 30 years and what's happened there? They've just got a whole lot of people taking things from

26:30other people's property and going up there. But it's just a terrible mess. And one day, one of those old abandoned vehicles, which may or may not be stolen, is going to explode with somebody bugging around the cut in towards and then it's going to be a huge fire. Not only that, but all the oil, oil from all those old vehicles leaking all over the land out there and there's a certain kind of money to drain off of there. But when they talked to a regional district as you witnessed yesterday, they said, if no one complains, we don't do anything. Well, I would have questioned for him if you see 16 bodies dead on the middle of the highway and you phone the police because it's a concern to you as a citizen. Did the police say, well, we haven't had any complaints about that. So I don't think when to do anything about it. Does that make any sense to you? No, that does not make a lot of sense. But so have you called the district and said, hey, look, this is going on. They're fully aware of it. And then what I have done is I phone the Ministry of Forest and I know the fellow that's in charge of the fire suppression. And I want him to get on it because you know, you know, to prevent something like that. You know, he's very good, very cooperative. He's not a part of Bernie. He's

27:34on the phone. He could phone him at three in the morning. Is anything to do with fire or anything for a bench of fire? He's most cooperative. But I'm going to phone him. I've got to wait for a shit to be turned called because it's, yes, it's rainy season now, but it's the same thing. And no one should be allowed to do that. And I'm like, in the city, you can't even park some old abandoned car outside your inside or outside your yard. So why in a rural district, why should any of these neighbors have to put up with a hundred acres of Jones town? I understand the property and question where this is happening. It's not accessible from the road. Do you think that's part of it? That because it's not easily accessible. It's kind of out of sight, out of mind. Not for you, obviously, but for a lot of people. Well, it is. It is. Obviously there's a road too. It's a public road. It's a public road. It's a public road. And you know, like I'm not a person. I know I'm not a big fan of bureaucrats, as you might imagine. But you know, and if I think if a person wants to have a number of old vehicles on their property, that's not in my business. But when you've got

28:36that you've seen the aerial photos, I mean, that just looked just unbelievable. There must be a hundred tons of junk there, including these old vehicles. And you know, if a battery explodes or then there's a fire and it's in the middle of the night. And if it's a windy time of the year. And if the suppression crews on the island already engage with other private properties and or public properties, where does that leave us? Yeah, it's a good question. And for people that haven't seen the aerial footage, the drone footage that was on global news, looking at it, I'm looking at it right now. I can count even five. It's at eight. I can say eight RVs in one pass. And like you said, a lot of of debris is strewn about. And you mentioned the fire hazard. And it's reminding me of a few months ago when global news spoke to an RV encampment just off the highway enrichment. And it was exactly those concerns. And then ironically, that encampment burnt down a few days after that interview. So clearly there is a fire risk. So would you like to see it cleaned up? Not necessarily that it

29:40can't exist, but it needs to be cleaned up. Well, it's, you know, everything, everybody's allowed to walk on this street. But when somebody steps in your toes and then that's a different story. Now, about four years ago, there was a little fire up the road because some fool was igniting some kind of a like sendry bomb inside the road. It was funny. The local fire department, which are wonderful people. They're all volunteers. They went up there that we've got it. A long comes the ministry of forest saying, no, you haven't got it. We've got it along with the major longing company saying, no, you haven't got it. We got it. Well, they didn't have it. And I was three o'clock in the morning. I can my feet setting up here. I'm looking. I'm going to, I think, the wind's blowing a wrong way because it got completely out of hand. I'm going to lose this whole place. And they've been to lose this place. We've had some 1897. All our Christmas trees are gone. All our timbers gone. And these are things that you can't ensure. And these are things that you can't replace or anything. So I'm thinking, yes. So somebody this, it was going to do in somebody, the government come along saying, well, we're going to do it. Well, they didn't do it. They had another fire last year up there. And I went up there and the guy says, oh, well, why are

30:42you coming up here? You've got a private fire truck. I said, yeah. And it was the next morning before they could even get their pumps started. Hmm. Do you, you might have said this. Do you know the owner of the property? I do. I do. I know I must make this clear for, for, for, for legal reasons. I know the person that's only for 25 years, whether he still owns it or not, I don't know. So I don't I got a cat point fingers in case for arguments sake for legal matters. He sold it yesterday. So that, you know, he was always these things. He was always some laser tongue lawyer. They'll sort of have to sue your butt off. So I do know him personally. I've been on a for 25 years. I knew his father. I'm 81 now. So I do a lot of old fighters. Yeah. Well, and that was kind of my question. And that, you've, you've obviously, excuse me, had conversations with these, with these neighbors and talked about this. But it sounds like if you've raised your concerns to them, that not much has been done if anything. Well, I did about three or four years ago. There was people mooching around my mill at

31:42night. And we have a sign out there that says, if you're found here after dark, you'll be found here in the morning. And in any event, he, uh, there was some of these people with something hanging around thieves hanging around here. So I just told him, I said, look, I've known you for a long time. If you send any of those people down there, any of your little gang of whatever down there, you're going to get a raid at in to be, if you know what that is. And, uh, you're going to be sorry. You're going to be sorry. And then I've never seen hide nor hair of those, those people since. Because they know I'm serious. But it sounds, it sounds like it to for sure. And I think some people will, will catch on to what that phrase means. So what do you do at this point with the, you know, the problem, excuse me, friend, you're probably is, um, the apathy range supreme. Like, you know, we were getting some things down here, gushing water and some, this thing and that thing with the fire people involved here and stuff. And I went door to door around here. And, uh, you know, people just don't give it to him. They're, they're, they're, they're apathetic and they're too lazy to learn something about it.

32:44Of course, you're the first to turn around a bitch with things to hear where. Right. So what do you do? Because like you said, your concern is your tree farm business. The fact that you've had this tree farm for many, many years. And if there was a fire, that business is wiped out. So what do you do at this point? Well, you know, what I'm going to do is like I said, the risks are being somewhat verbally redundant. I'm phoning the, I am waiting for the call back from the fire marshal and saying, you know, you you should be raising alarms on this and, uh, no pun intended. And, uh, and you're something. You should go up there and serve them with the thing saying, you know, this is a, is a fire hazard and you've got in service six months to clean it up. If you don't, we will. Then we'll let it on your taxes. And that's it. Do you know how many people actually live there? Are there people living there? Yes, absolutely. And for what I understand, and this is just here say, third-hand stuff. Apparently about two months ago, there was a killing there. And one person, uh, it was threatened to stab somebody with chasing brother Nathan, the other guy turned around and shot.

33:45There was, there was a case of alleged case of self-defense. So it's not like it's, um, it's not like it's me very up there. Right. Okay. Well, that's a bit alarming. But do you know how many people are in the trailers of the town? I really don't, I really don't, but I know that I've actually picked up people on the way up there, like a picked up a lady a bit of year ago and she was struggling with groceries and stuff like that. And she said, where are you going? And she told me that's well, I'll bring you up there, at least at least partial way up there. Because I mean, anyone that's here struggling up there, and they said, if I were you, I wouldn't be your hanging around there very long. And what did she say? Well, she was very plate and thanked me and everything else. In fact, I think I did take her right up to the gate. I was with my wife. We took her right up the gate because she had a lot of stuff and it's a long walk. And then I was just getting dark and there are cougars around here. And bears can be a problem if you inadvertently get between them and their cubs. Exactly. Well, it sounds like something needs to be done, but unclear when or if that's going to

34:47happen. So for you, do you go ahead and I would imagine you're going into your busy time of year? Yes. And what it is is I am going to get lean on the fire, the fire of the Marshall. And then as far as I'm very familiar with both the past and present mayor. And there on this regional district council, and I'm actually having dinner with one tonight because I do that every couple of weeks. And I'm going to raise a little hell. But you know, the problem is, and I'm thank you very, very, very much for the media taking interest in this because like Newspapers have sort of gone to hell on the hand basket. At one time, they could phone one of the reporters down there and he can get a scribe interested in something and he puts on the paper. But now it's all just, you know, it's just tiki-taki, you know, just the same old thing and, you know, everything is morphing enough for the better. Well, Mike, I can hear the passion in your voice and you would like to have something done about this. So we will continue to follow along and hopefully get an update.

35:48But we will leave it there for today. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for your concerns. I really appreciate it. All right, have a great rest of your day. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Jill Bennett Show podcast. Can't wait for the latest episode to drop. Tune in to the Jill Bennett Show live from noon till three on 730 CKNW. Have a question or comment, send me an email. Jill at cknw.com. Thanks again for listening. Where some see heroes and other see egos, Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. A fad to some, the future of money to others. We see crypto's trillion dollar swings. The end of jobs or the end of human struggle. We see the endless funds fueling the AI hype. While others follow the noise, we follow the money. Learn more at Bloomberg.com.