The Flagship: ALL OUT, Worlds Collide, CMLL 93rd, The Aggregators & more!

0:00Hey everybody, my name is Jesse Collins and I am the host of the Gentleman's Wrestling Podcast, a show right here on the Voices of Wrestling Podcasting Network. On the Gentleman's Wrestling Podcast, we take a deep look at individual issues and stories that are going on in the wrestling world. Each episode is about a different topic and we take a thorough and educated look at things ranging from current booking trends to break down some individual performers and angles to investigations into different fan cultures across the industry. In addition, we keep a close eye on the wrestling media and as a professional journalist, I bring a unique perspective to how current issues in wrestling are being covered and discussed through the wrestling media. We have a revolving series of guests from a cross-wrestling punditry joining us on each episode and we hope that you make the choice to give us a listen on wherever you get your podcast from. This podcast is supported by your Southern California Kia dealers.

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5:15Well, I've got two win and a week so far. These are just straight up picks. No, no against the spread, no gambling on suit. Williams.com, no units. I just picked the winners. See what you're not sponsored by draft kings? No. No, no. No, I'm not sponsored by Kyle Sheehan. None of them are. The Sydney Sweeney one, which I don't know what the name of the company is. It's one of these fun things where it's like all, you know, the argument. I'm sure you've been on the internet in the last two weeks. People just losing their minds about this and they're like, that's what the company wants. They're getting the attention. I have no idea what the company's name is. No clue. I just know that she was there. You could see her breasts and I don't know what the fuck the company is. I have no idea how to gamble on it. I don't even know if you can gamble on it. I don't even know what it is. But it's so funny. That's what they want. They're getting the attention they want. It's like, are they? They're not getting any of it. Nobody knows the name of the company. Gun to your head. You can give me the first letter of the name of that company. I'll say B for that.

6:16Sure. Yes. I don't know. No idea. I couldn't even give you a half of a guess. Like even a slight guess of what the hell that name of that company is. But anyway, yes. So you should probably get sponsored by Draft King now. So they'll sponsor anybody soon. So you might want to give them a call and see if you can be bought. As I always tell people when I tell them I dabble in sports gambling, I'm not good enough to develop an addiction. So hey, there you go. Yeah. That's kind of where I'm at, too. I don't really do. I do like a little, but it's like I do $10 here and they're just for fun or what I can't do enough. I don't know what I'm doing. You have to know what I'm doing. In order to chase the high, you have to get the high first. Right. It does nothing. It doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. I just keep losing money. Yeah. It does not happen. But you're going to join us for the entire show here. We're going to talk about a lot of stuff on this here flagship.

7:16We're going to talk about all out. We're going to preview that coming up this Saturday. We're going to talk about WWE and the sort of NXT Triple A world collide. We're going to talk a little bit about the CML 93rd anniversary show. We're going to talk a little bit about Paramount and WBD's merger slash sale, how it affects AEW, all other good stuff. I am. And we are going to talk about the aggregators, too. But we're going to have a special guest that's going to come on and help us talk about the aggregators. Before I welcome that special guest to the suit, I wanted to get this out of the way first and foremost. I apologize about slam anniversary. Okay. I feel terrible about it. Yeah. Well, in case you don't know, in case you're new, somehow I was bullied into reviewing slam aversory. That's a strong name. No, not slam aversory. It was locked down. No, it was locked down. I was bullied into reviewing CMA lockdown on my own website, suitfulheams.com. Somehow these two, I went in the voice of wrestling discord and through the course of conversation,

8:20I said that I might review lockdown for the site. That's certainly not how I remember it. But okay. Let's turn into Joe and Rich repeatedly promising their large audience that I would review lockdown on my site that I would definitely be reviewing lockdown. That's how I read it. I guess I just interpreted might. I thought will I read I saw will when I guess you wrote might. So I do apologize about that. But I am very excited for bound for I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do that to you. I'll say this. I'll say this. Don't do it. Given the numbers that that review did, I thank you for promising that. People love them some TNA analysis. If that's if you want to call it. All right. Well, bound for glory, TBD then I guess.

9:21So you might do it. I mean, I might do the same gimmick one more time and just pull you into doing it again. But I actually had a surprise bit for you about bound for glory, but go ahead and introduce our third. Okay. We'll do that later in the show. I can't. I can't keep this man waiting. He's an important man. Placed to go people to see. We're going to talk about the aggregators and no better person to talk about the aggregators this week than Jesse Collins of the gentleman's wrestling podcast. He was a guest on the flagship a couple weeks ago and he is back yet again. Jesse. How's it going? Yeah, the gentleman's wrestling podcast is sponsored by DraftKings. I knew it. Right. Technically, you are sort of sponsored by my bookie. They are sponsoring the podcast network. So technically, you are a my bookie affiliated. So I need you to immediately rescind your even brief. DraftKings plug there and tell that my bookie is where you play, you win, you, I forget

10:25it. But you know, insert it there. I'll put all fix it in post. I'll fix it in post. I thought we're actually I had a Google the Sydney Swini thing because I hadn't heard of it. Oh, you haven't. Oh, wow. Yeah. You're lucky. You're the 20. Yeah. No big appears to be the company. No big. That's not true. You made that up. And OVIG. This is a game. We're supposed to guess if that's the one or not or. And then the gimmick is. So according to this, this doing some research on the Sydney Swini picture. Um, A. That's what you're going to. I saw the research. I want to see numerous times that I've come to the conclusion. Honestly, I'm not a city, sweetie person. Like, that's fine. That's all right. Um, Yeah. I was, I was never a Kelly Kelly guy in the same. Oh, no. I had nothing, nothing, nothing. Oh, there's no worse conversation than like men talking about. I'm not talking about what women they find attractive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm actually not that interested.

11:25Um, but anyway, you know, as a boob guy, everyone like I've had people say you must love Cindy sweetie, Justin, because you're such a famous boob guy. You're a famous boob guy. I didn't know that. Yeah. Well, like among my friends. Oh, okay. Okay. You know, we have discussions about people and they're famous. I mean, that's really, you must really be a boob. Yeah. It's a good famous. That's gotta be one of your, we gotta add that to your tag line. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. Okay. Just go. Allegedly, um, just the spot. The idea is that, uh, she was covered only by footballs, a basketball hockey net and pool balls. That's like a lot of stuff, to be honest. Yeah, can confirm. The piti was separate time. Yeah. And she just said sports over and over again. Yeah. And they've just, you know, they've been on the pitch pitch being that Novig, which is a prediction market app, is just on sports you can't bet on wars or deaths. Oh, okay. So they're like, I got calls. Calcies. You know, they, they,

12:25you can bet on a building collapsing on Calcies. If you wanted to do a prediction market, which only exists to get around the betting apps, um, in states where sports gambling is not legal. And you can feel ethically a little bit better than if you were betting using Kelsey, that's a bad on wars. And New York. I sports gambling sports gambling legal where you guys live very much so you did for me. Yes Yeah, it's kind of one of those things where it's like legal in most states But then there's some states and I'm just like how is it not legal? Yeah Yeah, this point it feels like you're just you're holding off for no reason at this Just you have to give it up at this point. It's yeah There was a period period of time where you did have to I did have to drive into New Hampshire to place Any There's no one's Patriots the win that Super Bowl, huh? You would you would just you would see you would drive over the border into New Hampshire and like Go into the Dunkin Donuts parking lot that's just over the border and like Nashua New Hampshire Just see like a bunch of people with maths plates on their phone like on Sunday morning betting on the NFL sleep That's awesome see here here's Sue Williams saying I don't get that high from gambling and here's famous boob guy Jesse Collins going across state lines

13:31To make sure he gets all this I did that I even know a lot about doing it I did you knew that you knew that you knew it don't don't us knew the town. I mean it seems Well, well, it's the Northeast US of course is a Dunkin Donuts. Yeah, it's ubiquitous every block. Yeah every corner Yeah, I'm just saying that as a as a business. Yeah, you're just looking how to get away from there Yeah, you were just trying to well my original Potcat General one's wrestling podcast host Jason Oon Pracer who does work with Russell Mammick's opposed wrestling Right now he he's from Lowell mass, which is just over the border from New Hampshire So he and he's a big support scaveling and he's the one who originally told me about okay The little Um, there's actually a great art. There was actually a great article I think it was in like the athletic or something or maybe it was in sports illustrated But it was like what sports gambling was legal in New Jersey and not legal in New York and like this guy that ran a pizza shop That just like there's like a pizza parlor that showed the NFL games like any sports bar would like Just getting inundated with all these like guys weren't suits and other phones like in setting up like all day at his pizza shop to watch the games

14:36And make all these bets and stuff like that And it was it was a really interesting time but now sports gambling is legal pretty much anywhere except like California So yeah, yeah Chris Amson the chairman brings up you know for Illinois our big thing is fireworks We is not legal to buy fireworks in Illinois, but it's very legal to purchase fireworks in Indiana So it's like a whole cottage industry like every Illinois billboard in in June and July is just like talking about all these places You can go in Indiana and you go right across the border fill your car with fireworks and go back Yeah, yeah, like I'm new it's a big thing is New Hampshire is like the place with no laws. That's like New Hampshire's gimmick Is that it's just like a lawless place where like basically everything is legal. It's like So fireworks It's a real place. It's like the south of the north in a lot of ways like they're way more Confederate flags New Hampshire than you would expect Well, yeah, it's like a Delaware with the brisco. Yeah, if you want to buy fireworks New Hampshire If you want to buy like the types of vapes that they don't sell in like normal states you go to New Hampshire

15:39You know like you want to buy like all this stuff the only thing that's not legal in New Hampshire is Cannabis which is crazy because it's legal That's where they drew the line. They didn't like it's it's a most New Hampshire like fake Like libertarian thing ever which is like yeah, you could do whatever you want well not that one thing But you can do one thing is too much. You want to wear motorcycle without your helmet go crazy You want to drive a car without car insurance go crazy a lot of it aren't sure you don't have to have Car insurance New Hampshire. I like it a lot of it Like it's a it's a place that you want to live off the grid It's the state that's the most accommodating anyone who wants to live off the grid a lot of it It's a southern pretty good actually No, you don't want to pay sales tax go to New Hampshire Hold on Like you hamps your bowl Famous book I just got really good I spent I spent about two every weekend's a year in New Hampshire every year That's something I'm just about every weekend a new Hampshire the way you're selling it

16:40Rich you would like New Hampshire a lot It's like I would go to the white mound sometime. It's it's right up your alley the white pounds The white oh, I thought you were because you're talking about Confederate flags and that I was just like hold on I'm not there's a new after I don't think I'm gonna be so there are definitely I can't I can't say I've ever seen a person of color in the white Mounds to be honest that seems accurate. Yeah, yeah That's more like because it's in for open Hampshire But it's right up your alley rich if you like doing alcohol Other than that other part other than all the no No people of color in the Confederate flags part. Well, yes, I believe The really torsty parts are just like liberals from Massachusetts on vacation like me All right, let's get to the task at hand here because you were on here jessie Because the aggregators are added again. So you did a micro episode this week of the gentleman's wrestling podcast All about the jennell grant Interview that was done on post wrestling dot com by Brandon Thurson and John Pollock

17:42There was a written recap from Brandon Thurson and then the full like hour and a half or so hour 20 minute Interview was posted the very next day at post wrestling dot com and the aggregators particularly fight full and figure four online slash wrestling observer right out of the gates Went with the headline of jennell grant Feels forgiveness towards Vince McMahon. So you have that micro episode of the gentleman's wrestling podcast Which I definitely recommend everybody go And listen to but Just a horrible headline because if you actually read or listen to the interview that's not Like really what she said. I mean that there's a there's a lot of context around that quote And one of the big issues is that these days more so than even clicks For these aggregators a lot of it is just social media attention quote tweets retweets that sort of stuff So all that people are really ever gonna see because they're not really gonna click through They're not gonna go actually listen to the post wrestling interview. They're not actually gonna read I mean that's asking a lot for for a person in 2026 to see a headline Click the link

18:43Read in the the aggregation recap and then also scroll the way down to say oh, I should probably listen to the full context of the of the interview I'll do that right now and make sure that that headline I don't react to that headline until I know all the context of what's happening So essentially fightful and figure for run with jenel grant feels forgiveness towards vincewick man You talked about how dangerous and and and just disgusting That headline was and of course what's always gonna happen with these things is once the big guys Put that headline out The poisoning of the well happens and the bad headline gets out everywhere and that was no exception because now Some variation of the headline jenel grant feels forgiveness for vincewick man can be found on russles own Wrestling ink wrestling headlines no dq ringside news etc etc etc and then also every single Horrible Facebook group that you could possibly imagine every it's the prevailing narrative now after the interview Which should not be the narrative after the interview is jenel grant feels forgiveness towards vincewick man So you talked about that on the jenelman's wrestling podcast I want to at least have you on here to talk about just how horrible and irresponsible that headline was

19:46For fightful figure for wrestling observer and now all these other sites that are just copycatting To run with it as well now I will some brief update and then we can kind of talk here Fightful has changed the title of their article so the title of their article is now jenel grant describes how she currently feels towards vincewick man Comma reflects on Wall Street Journal story breaking which is a better headline the problem is the rl still shows the original headline Which is John grants that she feels forgiveness towards vincewick man and a little too late because the narrative is already That jenel grant feels forgiveness now figure for online wrestling observer They have not changed the title at all still just says jenel grant says she feels forgiveness towards vincewick man so Jesse you did the Micro episode of jenelman's wrestling podcast talking about this so on at least give let you have your thoughts here I mean what it's a it's a class example of what are we doing here? I mean this we have really lost the plot here of what aggregation and I'm very negative on aggregation of all forms I think it's all pretty terrible stuff

20:46This stuff is just grossly irresponsible and negligent and just disgusting especially when now that will be the narrative that will Continue through weeks and months and years possibly is that jenel grant, you know, forgive vincewick man essentially if you know it's not At all what she said Yeah, thanks. I mean I recorded that podcast Like probably like within the hour of that kind of story blowing up and seeing those headlines and that basically was like this is gonna be off the cuff like Just kind of a emotional reaction to it And honestly, I thought it was like might be like overly bad podcasts and when I hit record I was like I don't know if that's gonna be good and then I just like posted it and then I everyone was like this was really good So I'm like I'm glad it came across the way that I wanted it to even though I didn't really prepare that much for it But yeah, I mean I think like we talk about the aggregators like What makes it particularly problematic is Most of the time we're talking about stupid pro wrestling like rumors about pro wrestling or

21:49You know stories don't real stories like who produced a match or the company, you know Ww is excited about pentagon's future in the company or something like that like just kind of like dumb wrestling stuff and I think this is a story that illustrates Why those practices can be more problematic because when you're dealing with a really serious topic such as this one the fact that we're Doing this kind of aggregation. I think really stands out um And I think the the big focus for me is like figure four Uh rest of the observer and fight full are the leading sites For wrestling is all these other like trashy wrestling aggregation news sites. They're following they're going They're you know refreshing fight full in the observer site each day Multiple times each day to see what stories they can call from Those sites so when those stories when those sites go with the headline

22:49General grant talks about feeling forgiveness for vids like man um It becomes way more problematic because it's followed the leader like you said all of those sites now taken Yeah, there was an example last year I don't know if you remember this that there was some fake collision results that were going out And I think it was figure four they had them out first and it's like One by one everybody just copy and paste it everybody copy and paste and it was like I think one of them involved like juice Robinson or whatever who wasn't even in the country at this time And it's like nobody stopped to think or he was injured at the time or something like that And not one of these sites stop to think wait a minute That's kind of weird. It's just copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste move on to the next one copy paste copy paste And that's why like if the leaders and the and it sucks that this is what it is like that the leaders in the club us They have to behave a lot because if they don't it just poisons the well entirely And yeah, that was a great example last month or last year or whatever when those fake collision results came out And it was just nobody thought to even take a second of thought about it And which is copy paste copy paste copy paste and then all across the internet was all these fake collisions boilers

23:50Because one aggregator, you know, got a bad report from somebody or one site got a bad report from somebody And that's just like you said they're just refreshing copy paste move on to the next thing Right, and there's so much in that post wrestling story That is worth talking about and worth covering beyond what you said above and said man And as you said the it's a misleading headline to be generous if i'm being honest And Like there's no real con and there's no real context there's a little context in the fight will story um But We're talking about something like this like she talks about how After when she after the the Wallsview journal story came out and she was a public figure made made essentially made a public figure Because of it unwillingly or unknowingly Because the Wallsview journal didn't do a good job protecting her identity by basically saying it was somebody that looked at the same building as Vincent man and once that was out there She says that everyone in the building knew that it was her because everyone in the building knew that she knew Vince

24:53um But She talks about after that story break, you know feeling suicidal and making a suicide attempt And she talks about how if she felt this way about it How does Vince feel is he feeling suicidal and that she was concerned about that And in the context of the story you understand that right you understand what how she unexplains how she's feeling and how that might reflect on her feelings towards Vince That's and if i can if i can say something Absolutely you can of course you can i I heard like I listened to like the first I want to say like half hour of it. I couldn't finish the whole thing before the show but it was a lot of um It was a lot of giving like Like who is Janelle grant the person outside of this story and she talked about how she was an empath how she feels You know how she feels empathy very strongly for other people um

25:53You know going back to her youth so and that kind of speaks to the point that Jesse brought up about how she was Kind of thinking about how Vince felt during her like During her Like turmoil throughout the situation and so all this is context for the story All none of which is really understood just through the headline and through this aggregated story and i think rich you you were a good point that this is a story that is being pushed And the aggregate what these aggregators do is not just to get clicks on their site But it is to get retweets and quits and shares and things like especially in 2026 the days of like chasing clicks Is kind of gone in the days of chasing Social media engage and and show the fight for the fight full brands By showing that they have this story about this thing Um not necessarily people reading that story but leading to the discussion on social media and That's what this is about that's people we're talking about it

26:55like When this when this came out on Tuesday Oh jennell grant Forge is a man what and i didn't i don't wallow in this so i don't i can't report this firsthand But i heard from other people as i'm sure you guys both heard that like people in some of the darker corners of the wrestling Discussions people were like oh this shows that jennell grant was just out for the money This shows that jennell grant for gives vince so now vince can come back because she forgives him And that's exactly what this headline is going to lead to a lot of people saying I can hear That's and that's what's troubling about this right is that this opens up the door for people to feel more comfortable with it's a man returning to wwe In whatever capacity that may be um And i can hear Pick your your your your wwe Toady Podcast or social media personality of choice i can hear them saying that now look jennell grant said she forgives vince McMahon and if it's good enough for her that should be good enough for you if you guys shouldn't be upset that he's coming back to wwe

27:58You should be able to forgive them too. Yeah, why are you i'm ready to hear is well if she can forgive him Why can't we you know type of thing it's yeah seriously and first off your Gives is different than forgives i want to say there that is a big Oh difference forgiveness does not mean forgive and and that's what's so annoying about this Is it feels like this is like setting the stage if you were a vince of man's PR rep. Oh you'd love this like you're like Oh my god, I can't believe we got this headline which makes people i'm not saying because I have no reason to really think this But it makes people credibly think like Is dub like like as there's some PR reason why they the the two major wrestling news sites chose to cover this interview in that way Because it couldn't be more flattering prevents all things considered given the subject is gennell grant like tells all about Ourself which would usually be of which under most circumstances would be very bad for vince's public image and should be

29:01Yeah, it's it's Suzy have i hear you over there. Do you have a thought and then i can i can jump in Well First of all jessies wwe toady voice was very much a bully There are several there are several heavily new york accented people that that could have been but It Whether they meant who or not with the aggregation and I'm sure some of like the you know lower level bottom feeders did it's shum in the water for the vince mcman truthers and you are These people have to look in the mirror and realize that they are playing to people Who have made vince mcman pro wrestling their identity yeah and who are just You can best to be described as Kindly as you can describe these people as hopelessly immature

30:06who just don't like Understand that there is A bigger world outside of Silly professional wrestling and that the guy who did it poorly i might add Like there's other people who do it like i thought paul was your savior what happened there You get bored of him like I don't know it's just It's very to get back to this it's very disappointed yeah, and it's a lot of times like and like you said jessie The dark parts and the dark corners in the promise it's not that dark the problem is it's not that hard to find those people You can go to youtube and look at the comments on no it's like our chemistry yeah right right It's not very hard to find the the people saying these sort of things And one of the the big issues is and and it's it's unfortunate and this isn't just like a vincecman and a pro wrestling thing and suit You kind of alluded to it too so many people make brands and shows and hobbies their identity And they cannot compartmentalize it whatsoever

31:08You can think that you your childhood was fantastic because vincecman promoted world wrestling federation wrestling and you watch polkog You can think all that and also say Yeah, but then he did the sanest thing you know, he and he did this awful thing like you can compartmentalize that you can still have your Joy's your childhood can still exist, but these people it's like it has to be No, there's no way. Oh, no, she was just trying to get the money like you you can't you cannot be you know They they can't have that emotional intelligence to say look That guy may have been a very important part of my life and he may have done a lot of things that I really loved But man, I can't you know that that it really stinks that that you know, oh man It's like I can't believe he did that and blah blah blah, but they can't you know you're right most people don't do that Most of the people that you read and unfortunately the loudest voices become the most prevalent voices like a lot of them Cannot compartmentalize that and cannot you know Rationally do that instead. It's just like well, it has to be it has to be black or white either He did oh he didn't do it that no she feels forgiveness. She was just trying to get the money if you know

32:09She would have gone to trial if it was true. She just got the money and now she's saying she forgives vans like ah what a you know and and and insert whatever horrific word Uh, you want to add there and it's just it's it's so disappointing and that unfortunately is why Irresponsible headlines like this Just can can can just poison that well I go back to that term so quickly and it doesn't take long For now if if fightful head went with that original title the title that I have now is that geno grant speaks out You know or just geno grant describes how she currently feels towards ventric man That's fine. I have no issue with that headline. That's okay because that that that's what she did She talks about how she felt about ventric man She felt talked about how she currently feels about the situation like that's what the interview was That would have been fine, but we know that that isn't salacious enough. That's not Quote tweety enough. That's not retweet enough And it probably should be and I again, I don't know that there's like malice. I don't I don't want to accuse I it was Jeremy Lambert that did the fightful You know headline and I don't want to Acuse him but malice at all. I just think that a lot of times these these aggregators. It's just

33:12They're hunting for that engagement. They're hunting for those quote tweets They're hunting for those retweets and they just don't stop and think about things And if you stopped and thought about this and had been you know rational about this even for a second You could say okay look I could see how this headline you know might get Misconstrued by the absolute worst people because I don't I don't know about you guys and I guess I'll I'll let both you guys reflect on this I don't think there was any malice I don't think Jeremy or fightful or I think it was Joseph Courier at figure four wrestling observer I don't think they were you know Twiddling their thumbs and and and curling their mustache and saying aha I know how to make the Vince trutters, you know feel I don't think it was that I just think that A lot of times when they're doing these aggregations they don't just stop and think about okay Is this a responsible headline is this a good headline am I just Doing this because I know it's going to get attention Is this just a a a sexy headline that's going to get quotesweets and retweets or is it the right headline? I don't know suit. I'll ask you first. Do you think Am I on the right wavelength there that I don't that you don't think there was any malice like I don't think these people are thinking

34:13Oh, yeah, I'm gonna give the Vince trutters exactly what they want Yeah, I don't think so either it was It's less malice and more just a Like a lack of care. Yeah, I want to say like it's just You know when you're doing aggregation. You're just you're churning you gotta You gotta just get everything out and that was the that was the most eye catching of headlines and You put it out and I think that's just that's all it was it was just a matter of getting the next headline out out of this story that That would get some attention and I think if you just took that Minute of care just be like Let's see if I could frame this differently Then I think that would have been a lot better from just making sure these people who are

35:13Who are so just unworthy of attention like In like just not even dealing with them just leave them in the corner and let the adults speak You know, yeah, like Jesse and you kind of talked about this a little bit earlier in the show and that's that's why I think it'll be good opportunity for you to talk about it as well like that the care and the thought Should have gone into this and usually doesn't like you said most of these aggregation headlines are Eric Bischoff says something fucking stupid about a w. Okay, we'll just put Eric Bischoff things a w's gonna go out of business And it's like you're you know what I mean you're just trying to get that slatious headline that quote tweet that retweet You know that attention that impression you want people to say ah Eric's Tom or yeah Eric's right like you you want that So that's what you go for and that's what you hunt for but a topic like this demands that extra couple of seconds that look This is not a stupid valvianist you know quote on his pocket This is something that's much more important and much more care of and you need to be more careful and you need to think about this a little bit more And I hope that this is a moment where people that do this aggregation thing can stop and look at this and go okay look

36:18What I do when I'm talking when I'm quote, you know a rikishi podcast quote or whatever Should not be when I what I do when this woman you know and her story Is being talked about and I think you even talked about how that's like wrestling media does not know how to handle this story in In the gentleman's wrestling podcast that was really much the title of it and pretty much the point is that resting media Still after four years cannot seem to understand how to cover this story at all Yeah, so there's a few things out. I want to make sure I say on this topic since I'm on the show The first is so Joseph Courier wrote the story for the observer site and Jeremy Lambert wrote the story for Fightful We don't know if they did the headlines or someone else at the site. Yeah, yeah, or an AI that the headlines Like so I don't say those them specifically they wrote the stories But they specifically did they do the headlines? I don't know I don't I know from my stories in my shoot job I do not write the headlines so And I've had plenty of people being like you know the title line was bad. I'm like I didn't write that

37:19Yeah Yeah, that's I in the newspaper game that can really tank you too because yeah your name is on that by line I've had several you know back in my newspaper day as I'd wake up the next day and look at the headline I'm going whoa And you know we know how important headlines are in forming impressions. Yes, a lot of people don't read the story because of the headline and things like that um The second thing is that Like It's good that Fightful eventually changed the story the headline for the story I respect that they did that even if it probably went on for too long I don't know who's making the decisions that the observers cite anymore who is in charge of headlines who's in charge of changing them Who's in charge of saying we're not changing them I'm really disappointed that they have not changed their headline at all Well, they have released a YouTube video with that in those words. Yeah, I mean, I know some of the people that Are behind the scenes there and I can't imagine they're okay with this So I just I don't know what's happening there

38:19Just no one knows what's happening at the observer site even the people that work there so um The second thing I wanted to point out We talk about general grand forgiveness and things like that Um, this was something that I learned after my podcast That I recorded on Tuesday and I was reading up on some things and seeing other people's perspective and someone mentioned something really uh Important to keep in mind is that for people that Have been victimized by something such as actual assault or if someone was you know Anyway, anyone that's gone through some sort of extremely traumatic incident um forgiveness and Like kind of moving past the perpetrator is a really important step to their own rehabilitation in a lot of cases and Because just because genelle grant has Said that she offers forgiveness to vincecman and if genelle grant wants to move on in her life without thinking about vincecman

39:21And a healthy way for her to do that is to offer some level of mental forgiveness to him That does not mean that vincecman should be forgiven within the eyes of overall society that his uh alleged crimes should not be punished by a general societal shunning Okay, because genelle grant is going through an extremely mentally traumatic time the likes of which the very few people Unless it is they have experienced it themselves personally can relate to And she has made the decision to try to mentally move on because that's The best thing for her to do for her her life does not mean that That has does no bearing on how I feel about how we should feel about vincecman like returning to pro wrestling In anyone that makes that argument is a fucking idiot That's what i want to say about it as well. No for sure. Yeah, I've seen it as well where In doing a little bit research about this topic over the years is there's also a little bit of that the um

40:24The abused gets a little bit of agency back by being like, you know what? I you know, I they want some Yes, there's some power back in that of well, you know, I feel you know, I feel empathy towards him like that Gives her a little bit of power in this in this relationship where she had zero where we're for you know from day one Immediately had literally zero power Over over vans and what and all the sort of stuff so now this like I'm mature enough and I'm okay enough And I'm healthy enough to forgive and think and and do all this you know is is is allowing her to like you said move on and feel like you know what I I'm I have something in this. I'm not just a helpless, you know A person in this I am allowed to you know, I now I'm at a point where I can say you know and and and feel some agency and feel and that's an important step It's absolutely an important step to to even if yeah, even if she truly deep down in her in her heart of hearts Does she Forgive and sick man probably not but feels again feels forgiveness and feels empathy and empathetic about Her suicide attempt versus maybe his Vince feeling the same way is not her forgiving Vince and like you said more importantly

41:29That doesn't mean you and I and everybody else that's out well. Jeez. Then I guess it's okay. All right. Move on. Let's go. Yeah. All right No chance in hell. Let's hear it. Yeah, I mean it's it's there's so many reasons for Why someone might do this and and Look like I once was at a a murder sensing trial for work. I was covering it and At that at the sentencing a the victim one of the victims relatives I think it was like the victims aunt or something said that she forgives the two perpetrators who murdered her niece or whatever and She said that and it wasn't like the judge said oh well if you forgive her, okay Senses man prison but never mind. Yeah, yeah, no, there's still consequences for that So and the last thing I want to make sure I say

42:30And you touched on this rich earlier by saying so People not being able to report on these difficult topics Which shows the lack of professionalism within wrestling media from the top down really in a lot of ways and It's really disappointing because I understand like Sean Rossap has said When when asked about you know why isn't he talking about general grand thing? Why isn't he doing this why isn't he doing that and he has said you know I you know, I'm not really you know that good at covering that kind of stuff like that You should look at like Brandon Thurston and John Pollock. They're doing a really good job on that and I understand what Sean means and Yeah, this is like way harder to cover of it than like Eric bishoff says this Or raw results or you know wrestle votes rumor or whatever I understand that

43:32However, and and I don't think that every single person that is like has a wrestling podcast or or or rights about wrestling needs to be talking about the general grand case However, you're one of the big fish in this small ponds and you're one of the the people that you know makes all the thing doing this One of the handful of people that's actually making doing doing this and you've had four years of this case Anyone that's like in seriously covering for wrestling and I think that Joseph Courier and Jeremy Lambert both fault that category These aren't like nobody said nobody has heard of before like sometimes we joke about like some of these bylines and the observer site these days like What who is this person? They just like sound like AI people Like these are people that we all have known have been covering wrestling for a while and they should know better and The fact that they don't Reflex poorly on the leadership of those respective organizations But it's a systematic problem because basically nobody in wrestling is capable of doing this

44:33Covering this for the most part. There's a reason that post is coverage of it is so outstanding compared to everyone else's um And You know part of being a journalist is Educating yourself so you can report on something in an informed way You know, I'm not an expert on almost anything that I report on in my real job But you talk to people Who are experts on those topics? You use your experience in your own intelligence and your own curiosity to ask the right questions So then you can communicate and inform article to the average person who also is not an expert on these subjects And The genelle grant case which has been going on for four years Is not a isolated case in the pro wrestling industry and anyone that remembers speaking out was even before The genelle grant case came out and there were plenty of stories related to sexual assault and wrestling and things like that

45:36Prior to speaking out so you have um This is a real major topic and I think anyone that's serious about covering pro wrestling should do a better job of understanding how to do it And I also want to say it's really not rocket science To show like a little bit of empathy and a little bit of patience and a little bit of okay, this is a sensitive topic How can I make sure that the headline we're putting out is can't convey that Like it's not that's not that hard Like I'm not me. I know I know I like sometimes like to talk about like journalism Art it's a science it takes so much to get to be so skilled and have to be have so much experience to do this correctly Like I like to say that but like at the end of the day This is just somebody what you need to show like a little bit of empathy for other people And I do think that People read that post story and they just saw what they could what was the best way to aggregate it They didn't read about the details. They didn't think about genelle grant as a human being

46:37Um and part of this her interview is really focused on how she went from being a private citizen to a public figure Over and I have I can only imagine what kind of stuff she's hearing from people Um a lot of it is probably really really unsettling Because like you guys said, there's a lot of unwelved people Whereas suit said, you know, emotionally immature Um at best at best Um and so I can only imagine what she's hearing and so to just I don't know just to take that and stick it into not be sensitive to it Um, it's really disappointing. I hope it's a wake up call. It's probably not though. It's probably what we have I mean, it's something that Joe's talked about a lot where a lot of people where a lot of the people in wrestling media This isn't their job. It is like a hobby connected to a thing that they like So it's a lot of just like people don't really

47:40People don't really want to like turn their brain for lack of a better term turn their brains on and be The adult in the room when it comes to kind of Covering big deal topics like this because they don't expect to Yeah, I can talk about like storylines and they're reviewing dynamite. Yeah, reviewing raw. That's that's you know what guys If you want to be the site, it says you know, we're not really good at covering this kind of stuff We'll leave it to the brin and thirstance in the John Pollock's of the world. If you want to do that fine Then don't cover it at all. Go then don't aggregate right genelle grant forgive spence like man because that's bullshit If you want to play that card like you know, we're not really good at that. This is in our expertise. That's fair Yeah, you get it now too. Yeah, yeah, you have a choice. Yeah, calm. It's I I'm not Aggregating anything over there. Yeah, you're just reviewing wrestling shows you're not trying to yeah, and that's I think that's where If you want to be in first organization or do you want to be a reviewer? Do you want to be an analysis and that and that unfortunately has become

48:41The waters are muddy done that across you know everything. I mean best sports politics news Wrestling is is of course a part of that too is that the lines between what's news? What's analysis? What's you know and then aggregation just throws in a complete other wrench in that entirely um Erichro who's in the chair right now and he's he's got a history in in journalist so a journalist so I like this He said a good rule of thumb is be a context provider not a content provider Which I love that that's a great now of course if you put that up in any uh You know aggregation site newsroom they would get very upset about that But it's a good rule of thumb if you're ever going to be involved in this thing is yeah Context provider not a content provider. I love that. That's a great line. Yeah, it's it's funny suit Williams You say that it's Williams I comment on aggregating but the lady story on suit Williams.com. I'm seeing right now is is road dog calls out Tony A con on Twitter. Oh god your ass What do you think suit you think road dog didn't get hired because he's too conservative

49:43Yes, the only conservative man The only conservative white man Is there is there an industry that has less accountability for individual performance than professional wrestling? Uh God no Tommy dream Was a booker in a major wrestling company This calendar year after his road dog has been fired twice. Yeah From his job. Yes, as WWE creator person when one of his best friends is the main decision Correct He was arguing with people about wins and losses mattering on the show he books on Twitter After the show Like this is why I would like it's so funny people always say like I think I said this recently my podcast also again like people always say I'm sure people said this to both of you Like you just want to be in WWE you just want to be in pro wrestling you just want to be in the industry like

50:44God no I would want to do been working the pro wrestling industry would work with these people Yeah, the last thing I'm gonna do is move to Stanford Connecticut and work in an office building The owned by world wrestling entertainment. No, no, thank you or like like people think that like I would die to host like a podcast with a pro wrestler Like I would rather shoot myself into the sun then host a fucking podcast with a pro wrestler the worker Forget working with these people. I don't want these people DMing me Like I Separation of church and stage just you perform I'll talk about it and be fair like Well least you stay over there I don't want scoops I don't want scoops. I don't want nothing just I Could do a podcast where like like I have like an episode where like Brian Dales and of Chris Jericho come on

51:45Someone who I know is at least gonna be insightful about their own career And not just like K-Fave media entire time, but like I imagine doing like Like like a podcast like an attitude ever wrestler and they're just like they don't really have a lot But they just want to tell like road stories and then they end up just don't then they just end up like reviewing dynamite Right you and had bigger mosh like just reviewing dynamite every week We What's up? Chess or you hope good Jesse. How are you all right? Let's talk about dynamite. Yeah, what the heck was that? Yeah, well, it's like a thing going around the other day and it was like who had the more impactful like career and WCW or something and it was like disco and Ferno and it was like some other Disco in Ferno level WCW. I forget who it was But it was like I imagine just like this being like a real sport like who had a more impactful MBA career like Will Purdue or

52:46Scott Williams like Scott Williams for sure Oh, sorry, I don't know what I chose sorry. I chose two backup Chicago bullseye Yeah, but I got a lot of Scott Williams saying he was an important player, so Yeah, but you know, I mean it's like just to like all the world for good did give us I did get Dennis Rodman for will Purdue. I don't know. There's some thoughts there. All right. So what do you think? What are your thoughts on Scott Williams? will Purdue Well, you know, give these hypothetical You did this on the discord not not to remember you do these hypotheticals about like random MBA players And I love that idea of yes, I forget you talked about something the other day and I was like I would love to talk about pop-I Jones Oh, yeah, that was the example. It was pop-I Jones and uh Oh Who's the other guy I don't remember when I was like I love the career So is it like her back? It was Othella Harrington and a pop-I Jones Yeah, I mean that discussion but Scott Williams were pretty right at my alley, but I suit your thoughts will Purdue versus Scott Williams I would just saying isn't this just the over and back pot kind of is yeah

53:46Yeah, what do you think about Bob Peta pass away? That's a pretty honestly offensive that I've never been on the over in the back podcast and I don't really really do it anymore It's all really dangerous question just because I have a lot of we don't want your boss and Celtic ass on our show get out of here I have a lot of thoughts on Bob Peta passing away that then we could do It could make it would make the Terry funk episode of this It would if we do over the back about Bob Peta or if I can't do it maybe I'll bring you on to you and I can talk about About Bob Peta His name Yeah, named after that one Wow It was the time The 5758 Different time 5758 Hawks who I think that I think that was the year they won are the last all-white NBA champion Do you think that will be a record that will be broken one day? Oh no

54:46Okay, hold on You got the snow time lakers getting together all A single not a single person of color on the team. Okay, so no mix and no mixed race. It has to be are we talking like 100% white or European how do you repeat? You have like a Turkish guy does that count? Yeah, it's a little bit like self-identifying thing. I mean We've talked about this rich white people are kind of back in the NBA. They're in a big way. Yeah, there was a period where It was looking pretty bleak for us. I think there is at one point there was like nine American born And now we've got like every team's got like four of them Yeah, too much actually too many like they come off the bench, you know who the fuck's this guy and then he just He's a sharp shooter and you're like, oh wow The pace and space errors really Yeah, it's all connected things of that nature. It's like what the hell? But is it what are we doing here? Yeah, the South like suddenly have like four Like it's like didn't have a single white guy like the entire time I was like growing up like except like Brian Scalik Reenie

55:51And now they have like an entire lineup back to the the good old days of Picking Richard Bailer-Charming Really? That's really bad. You shouldn't say that to me rich I actually got in a huge argument with a philosophy professor in college in office because he's told me that the South Exorcist were known as being a racist organization and I said that is not true the South Exorcist were actually a groundbreaking Defeat integration the NBA Yeah, Bill Russell We had one of the oh because we had a couple good white guys Since the vinyl put you out over back Yeah, no there's too much of a asshole. I can't have you on this show with this Um, what was I gonna say oh um There was a great I got sent a video it's it was a Greg Pah it was back when Kauai Leonard was still on the spurs and it's like I don't even know how this came up on my it was like on my YouTube or I got on a Facebook or whatever and it speaks to your point Jesse about how few white guys were in the NBA at a certain time It's Kauai Leonard on their dude the spurs are running some play. It's like 2010 or 2011 or whatever

56:53And the play is designed to get David Bertad's like wide open From three and he gets very open like they're double teaming Kauai They're help comms and like Bertad's just wide fucking open wide open and Kauai like passes it to the other side of the court And it just goes out of bounds or whatever and you hear pop of it shoot and he goes the play The play man You're supposed to get it to him and you hear Kauai go to who and he goes no white guy Greg Pahch goes no white guy The bench is laughing and like you know, everyone else just laughing because like he had one white guy And he's like the freaking that guy come out he missed some Yeah, there is at the nadir of the white guy in the NBA. There's like a it was like a like a oral It was an oral history, but it was like a Q&A with something said forget where it was like on like the athletic or something like that And it was talking to these guys and it was like Doug McDermott and Doug McDermott was like Talking about how he when you would play like high level AAU right you go to these big AAU tournaments and things like that And just like as soon as he checked into the game Everyone in the court would just be shooter shooter shooter shooter because they just like if you're white

57:56You should be a shooter Well, they're wrong No, they're like But you don't get like that you know, you know, we were talking about this last time I was on the podcast You get that free look when you when people go I love it. Yeah, I'm just like I'll just see if this guy can make a free Like Doug McDermott was not getting that benefit of the doubt and high level AAU They're just like yeah, I get a lot of reason this guy a lot of white privilege on the court these days It's like that old like guy. There's no way he's can play ball at all And so I get like five points before that guy maybe you can play a little bit Which is nice. I love it You ever like make a basket and sometimes like usually it's like teen air shot teenagers like like they can't believe that the ball in him Yes, every time whoa no way And then they just make fun of their friends for allowing their friend dude like he's like oh man He's that dude's oldest hell and he scored on you like okay, hold on a minute. I'm 39 let's wait that in a little bit Older guy, I'm gonna say older guys we talked about being old heads soon. I don't think you're quite old head status yet I think you got a little he's getting pretty close. I'm 29. I'm not old. He's getting out you're you're right there close

59:02When's that one? I think real? When's that three oh coming? I? Think 34 would be around when like It depends where you're running. I'm just telling you that I'm an old I'm an old head now playing pick up. There's no doubt about it but Like if you see an old head like and they're out there playing with like teenagers and stuff like that The smart thing would just assume like all right this guy must be pretty serious because he's like not out He didn't he's not out here with just his friends climbing right still playing ball He's like that's why I try to say like I have a guy who I can't play with doing another basketball discussion here in the lecture But here we are that's what I bring you on the guy. I have a guy to play with that's like 50 and and they're always like Oh damn he's good and I'm like well, yeah, he's like 52 years old. He's out here playing ball on this like lunch hour Of course, he's pretty good like he would have not he wouldn't be playing anymore not of my friends play anymore Very few people I know play anymore that are this age if he's still out here at he's 52 He's probably not just like you know, I wonder if I should go play basketball like he didn't wake up one day It's say you know instead of going to you know Get McDonald's on my lunch hour. I'm gonna go to the basketball gym and play basketball. Let me see about

1:00:05I'm like he's out here. He's of course. He's a baller. He couldn't Yeah, like the 16 year old kid that's there because his friends are playing and he doesn't really want to play That's persons way likely to be good basketball But like the guy with little gray is beard like okay that guy serious Yeah, boy See I gotta hop in here the cat is shocked that I'm 29 years old. They thought I was older I think every I'm assumes that the people that are online are older than they are Unless they're like notably really old. I think one of the big things is that a lot of people and suit you probably fit into this as well Similar to like caselo like people still can't believe he's like stolen as 20s or whatever Is that unfortunately voice wrestling we employed a lot of like 19 year olds and it's since it's love that child labor I guess yeah, in cases he was like 12 I didn't know that He was like writing these incredible reviews and I'm like all right. Yeah, whatever. He's like I'm 16 years old And I'm like oh, I thought you were much older than that So like one time he asked me to like write his college entrance and I was like oh, I didn't realize you were such a young person

1:01:07So okay, I think that's the suit thing you've been around for I mean god You've been writing on the website and around the the space since what 18 17 18 19 somewhere in that range If about a debt I remember that I was I wrote For a pw ponderings that was my first kind of like gig and I wrote Did a progress reviews if you needed to know how long ago this was people were viewing progress Yes And enjoying it. Oh, I would qualify it just but it just allowed you were just allowed to write about it They were the hot India time, you know think uh Think this was around the Jimmy Havoc title. Yeah, you know people were memory hold I remember I put that um I Applied for pw ponderings. I did like my first review in the lobby In like the student union center at ls u the day I was leaving campus because I had flunked out

1:02:14Say and that was like It was like 2017 I want to say Maybe Yeah 2017 that's not your flunk out of ls u because you were watching too much progress As one does yeah I gotta say it didn't know You didn't know like I can't go to class this Mark haskins on my screen. I can't leave now I was in I talking with the last one I was going to show how I wasted my my my my 20s like watching for wrestling But like I was literally when I was in college out of your way to your 30s doing it too I was in college. I was being paid um Took to to do live recaps for of t&a wrestling for for wrestling So I was like watching like risk uh bish off and russo era T&A like instead of like going out and like partying with my college friends I was like guys come on. No, I gotta watch magnus versus Gunner on tonight's episode of t&a impact um

1:03:15And then eventually it was just like this isn't worth it My quick so soon I looked it up may may 21st 2017 was your first voices wrestling article best of the super juniors night three Result in reviews and you followed that with a night seven review and then you got into what culture pro wrestling You were big in the Brit wrestling there. Yeah, here's uh, yeah Hendry for the what culture pro wrestling championship Joe Hendry versus uh, what was this fucker's name Kirby? What was it? Kirby yeah, yeah, you did not like that patch believe it or not so Oh robin read ribbing me sticking me on the what culture feed Yeah, Hendry made it was not a show where it's seeking out speedball versus legaro and kid versus Williams We're good matches every other match was passable at best Ellen and that was gay kid that was Gabriel kid who was probably what nine years old at that time I think Yeah, that was my first Look at Gabe kid Yeah, this was before he spent the two years in the dojo. Yeah, but

1:04:15literal kid to keep good. Yes, literal kid um Yeah, so it would have been so I would have started writing like a year before because I would have had a little experience under my belt before I uh started a Vio W so that would have been 2016 and then I started so Vio W like a round decade Vio W just doesn't accept anybody No, no, no, only the best only the best so I've been covering I've been running my wrestling online for 17 years It's more than half my life which is alarming. I think this is the last time Jesse will ever figure out this show was And Jesse realizes I'm gonna move to New Hampshire go off the grid stop watching this stupid shit I do think that I do kind of like honestly like my life my dream is I think I should start writing like nonfiction books And if I have to give up wrestling to do that Like I have to like anything I do towards wrestling content

1:05:15I would have to do to like book research and things like that and I think about it sometimes. Yeah, but wrestling kind of rocks though That sucks Now I have to come on and talk about things like this. I don't know. Okay, you know what? Before you depart how about this The PWI 500 came out today Number 500 Sydney Bakabalus, so we'll just go we'll go 500 I always like to see who the lowest person Ranked that I recognize is and this year it's 500 because he is a good difference a new England Indie staple So they backabella in fact he tried to once sell me tying this holding together He wants try to sell me a picture of him and Vincent Mann from 1980s at a gimmick table He's a photo me and Vince Jr Yeah Yeah, that's a great gimmick. Yeah, he's always been a fairly fun gimmick. So yeah, well we'll do this. How about yeah? Well, let's go through all 500 right. Let's do it. All right

1:06:18Soon I thought that's any backabella. Oh, we got a go to 499. I'm obviously joking I can see a lot worse if I'm not griffin action wrestling promoter Matt Griffin death man I got pretty good up until I don't know who mullet man is number 498 That could be a many people, but I don't know who who mullet they had like four main you weekend booking There's been that's bad many weekend bookings on number 484 97 Reese Maddox. Yeah, it was gets those DG USA bookings so that he kind of doesn't deserve 496 old man young boy suit thoughts How long we going with this bit? Mr. I know I know We got this we're good Oh, remember him for worth gimmick of the year. Heligan's burning There's 486 is just a man named Jay or a woman just named Jay. It just says Jay. Jay. Why just Jay

1:07:21Just Jay could be anybody. Sometimes when I'm like Or for pickup at like a donkey donut or something like that I'll just say my name is Jay because I sometimes people struggle to Are you number 487 in the uh No, how many matches would I have to work to get in the pw i 500 because I could grease more the Roman Reigns I think the threshold He didn't qualify I didn't see that That he didn't wrestle enough matches That fucking fraud There it is see this pw i 500 got his got his nose. Let's go I don't know how you got me number one for the pw i 500 man 10 says all you just 10 singles matches 10 matches I think you need 10 matches man. I'm gonna show you someone told me that like his average Meltzer start ratings this year like four and three quarter stars or something like that Well, they're great. I'll tell you that

1:08:24I'm all pleased. I'm gonna have a wrestler of the year or most outstanding wrestler case if that's Well every match you just delivers a classic. Oh, yeah He's having a better year than normal. Yes, and I say that having rage quit one of his main So you don't know maybe that maybe that was we're good. Yeah Yeah, they're better than normal. I guess the the The normal go to for the last five years has been like a very very boring match and then interference ending And then he wins This will worry that we can uh, Jesse will let you have the rest of your night What do you think about my man cruise Montana Number 13 Uh, will osprey number 16 thoughts Jesse go Who's cruise Montana is that um Santana yes, I was about to ask No, Stan was the name fake NXT watchers

1:09:24As many issues with the pw 500 but I did glance at the top 100 Because I was doing a sport quiz on it about 20 minutes before this bot guest started um and And this is actually a broader point beyond pw i but a lot of these Like media wrestling media companies and these aggregation sites fall right into the trap They give so much credence and attention to things like TNA and mlw in gcw And these wrestlers like will end up ranking like higher than like the pw 500 because of it and they get like news headlines And nobody gives a fuck about any of these people Like how much media attention does tna get Compared to how many people that are watching that show right now Well, I go into those shows live even when they were They were talking to he's the big tna guy that's showing them but and I actually know they're on a MC now So that's one thing like I actually have like an update on that Jesse if you remember

1:10:24I had a bound for glory a surprise segment at the top of the hill that I teased Would you gentlemen like to guess how many tickets are out for a bound for glory on my silver 11? I think I saw it early like I'll just take his first step because I think I saw it But I don't know if I need to have the exact number so I'll just say I'll say 1100 Uh definitely are running the game 7 7 50 or something like that right Lower Oh is it lower? They are running the yingling center in Tampa at 9500 cedar The current setup is 2444 So barely a quarter of it Tickets distributed for tna's biggest show of the year 734 That's one of those number that's one of those like big house bombs that you usually cover rich Yeah, when like a when like a lucha show does like a mask mania all that one

1:11:26Looking South Dakota that's got like 10 tickets out for like a 8000 cb When I think of this with great Of course, yeah, you think of breaking South Dakota and Dubuque, Iowa. Yeah, these these Bastions Yeah, when I think of American places that lucha would draw well, I think like Laredo, Texas, San Diego, California and Broken South Dakota. It's like those are the big three So So I close it down but someone brings up a good point that jay. A. Y. May have been Jacob Austin young on each fan superstar Jacob Austin young and that is possible that is possible Yeah, that's about where he's like that's about where I Seven like I don't understand it. Yeah, like I like at Cpw 500 I don't understand I like come up with these rankings and like they're based on k-fei but the some some of them sometimes sometimes they're Like who cares? I didn't notice like the guys who hold belts since the ml are like ranked higher Maybe than they should be but it's because like

1:12:28PWI recognizes the belts in a way that's him hell really doesn't yeah, that was a while there were whoever had the world and now they actually do care about the world championship because like that's what American wrestling companies do before Why the world championship didn't matter at all yeah, and Like the way like El Tejano, Jr would be ranked like eighth in the PWI Right There was some old cml world champion that that he had a title for like 800 days and the he ranked like 11th one year and it's like okay No, but they don't actually care about him guys like they don't uh, uh, who was it? Let me find the name I'll remember we're immediately because it was so hilarious. Oh, great. Oh, grand Guerrero. Grand Guerrero was like Yeah, it's the whole thing is kind of like a insult to people that like Really really care about yeah, it's one of right on And like PWI 500's like tried to rebrand itself a little bit I think in recent years But and I understand that people work at like if I was on the panel for the PWI 500 I don't think I'd be able to make a difference on it like I think it's just kind of a broken concept in a lot of ways

1:13:33I find it fun. I mean, it's just kind of fun to look at yeah Yeah, like you said my favorite genre is I don't care about the PWI 500 Here and then like people just tweet about it for you know weeks on end or wrestlers You're like I mean who gives a shit about the PWI 500 but I should be higher than yeah And then the people that they also equally uh You know, I really is like people that are like thank you PWI number four 12 and it's like yeah You're a indie if you're an indie wrestler and you're looking to break in like again I'm gonna put up 500 is something it might be the first time you've ever heard like kind of Some type of media entity you know showing you out um I think it's possible to get an PWI 500 without ever actually wrestling a match if you just put pretend it to be a wrestler in like Contact it some people and be like yeah, you know, I've been working these shows here there and you could probably get it right up Oh, yeah, 99 like are we sure? We're in a busy business shop. Maybe we can see what he's been doing that That's true Uh, David Bixeman of the chairman does bring up a great point

1:14:35Other was the year they confused Rochitana Hashian and he reo she tens on Tenza right There wasn't where were they just forgot This happens every year they just forget like someone really important yeah, yeah Oh, you're like they don't have an overlooking that's like oh man like we just forgot like Oka da this year like he just not on purpose Well, you know, qualify We got the look we got the fsm 50 coming up At the end of the year here on this site Um, we got the 30 under 30. Yep I know Griffin has talked about like a 40 over 40. I think that's viable as a concept. Oh these days. Yeah much more viable We might get some WWE representation of a 40 over 40 After frickin event scene. Yeah, Nito was the one they forgot about a couple uh Yeah, they just like forgot Nito

1:15:37Yeah, they're like scroll through you're like oh like I'm in the 200s. I don't think I've seen that see an item Yeah, I feel like you had a pretty good year and you know Well, that's just like one of those things where it's like anyone that's in WWE gets to rank in like the top 200 Like kind of regardless like whether they like anything Like Ricky Saints is like 30 at this year and it's like yeah I should look it up. Where's the miss the miss? Oh, no, you're looking please look that out. I would love to know So how are you guys celebrating 20 years of the miss? What are you guys doing this weekend? Do Or this year, I guess I mean I've been celebrating it every week So when's that series coming right? I know you know you've been watching old CM Punk when are you gonna watch the miss's career And review it don't do that. Please don't do that for god's sakes don't do that Rich, I think he's had the worst I think he had the worst WrestleMania mate of match Not involving like Bray Wyatt shenanigans or old men Like I think his I think he's had the worst WrestleMania match the one with Cena. Yeah, uh the main event of WrestleMania

1:16:39the worst It it it's not the worst WrestleMania match ever It is very easily the worst WrestleMania made of no sit sit versus Hogan is worse than that trust me. Hmm sit Hogan Sid versus Hogan is fucking is the fucking shenanigan's Hope like it's like sit working on your hold for five minutes and that's it It's not joking Well, that's a dangerous thing in the hood. It's a city. I mean I'm not saying it was good, but it wasn't but Missed scene is I think I like the working standards of what that era. I mean like we We should have progressed to the point where and the miss was immediately like outclass And then you also you like I think he got hurt like two seconds into the match too. It was the disaster No, he got concussed at the end of all was it at the end? Okay, we didn't remember it Yeah, it's like there's like the there's also like the 33-minute Triple H Roman Reigns match

1:17:40Like the crash Well, no, no, that one was really bad my least favorite match of all time was that Roman Reigns Undertaker main event where Roman Just like punched the Undertaker for Like 45 minutes. I remember it as well because I had gotten like finally ill during that WrestleMania So I remember watching that match and throwing up and then going back and watching that match and throwing up And I'm sure it wasn't the match that made me throw up in my head It's like I just watched this like repulsive terrible Roman Reigns Undertaker match and I just had to throw up and I think it was probably something I ate but I Um that match wasn't as bad as like there's like a run of like matches like in that like mid 2000s WrestleMania mid 2010s WrestleMania is going too long like Network era where you like you go back and watch him and it's like well actually that wasn't that bad Like Roman takers like I think like two and a half like I But it was also like a nine hour show You don't get the context of like you're just sitting there all night for this show this show

1:18:44I'll close by saying my favorite my favorite mids moment. I think all time is Yeah, the match against Kofi Kingston where he comes off the he's coming off the ropes He's hitting hit with trouble and paradise and you just kind of cut Kofi's a little it's actually Kofi's falling so too close to the Miz so the Miz comes off the ropes he doesn't have time to get his hands up and Kofi and Kofi kicks him right in the face and chaos I'm like shoot KO It's insane. It's so great Like I hope you have like lifelong brain trauma for it, but it is one of the sickest like They should have just done the thing where like the referee rings the bell like a knockout finish like they would do in like Noah Like runs in like her dean But it is awesome. It's incredible. That's my favorite mids moment. You were about to say awesome and then stop Oh, it was awesome My favorite mids moment is when he was he's when Shane McMahon came back at the rest of baby in LA

1:19:46Indomitially towards quad And Snoop Dogg is there Down he looks down at Shane and goes you are right cuss Yeah, that and like I think the Miz has had some memorable appearances in the NLB Celebrity softball game that they play after the oh he always is there Yeah, they got rid of that this year and I am actually very upset because I actually enjoyed like earnestly enjoy I also earnestly enjoy the NBA One that they do yeah the softball one they actually would get like some decent celebrities Yeah, they get some decent celebrities and then also like old baseball So like Tim Reigns would come out there and just fucking hit judge just these dingers like these Jenny Finch would always come in and just fucking Yes, right out this side and it like Yeah, the MLB the MBS start game is like kind of shredded towards towards like a bunch of influencers

1:20:46Yeah, it's lost. It's it's lost. It's It's the softball game they would get like a real like actors that were on like TV shows and movies that you've seen before and like you said like MLB people and like it was like a good time Yeah, I Used to love the the NBA one because you'd have like this Some a couple people would take it way too seriously like I remember the the freaking arcade fire guy would go in there And he would just be like out there like he's actually playing a game and it's like brother It's very well Chris ball wind butler was like a young like he was like Kelly Olinik out there, dude He yeah wind butler could play like he put his head he put like a headband on and was like stretching And he was out there like boxing guys out. It's like brother It's a celebrity game calm down and then the bucks owner. I forget Mark Lurie or whatever was his name Mark Lazare Or like you would go out there like you'd be like every Lauren screens and doing like you know good Yeah, he's he's out there and then he got the MVP one time and he was like Yeah, I was like dude, it's a celebrity game like I would love I would love

1:21:47I would love to be forever I would like forever sure I would love to become a minor enough celebrity to play in the NBA to go out there and then like work your ass off And then win the MVP. Yeah, just like if I could come in there and just like hit like five threes And then like the next day people are just like yeah this guy that I mean this guy from blank blank like I'd have to get some sort of weird 15 minutes of fame thing. Yeah, now that would this be Uh, normally, it was these be rufflers uh four point shots or uh what What? I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm just just gonna this is gonna sound arrogant my normal shots if I'm the ruffle Four point shot. Wow listen to this. Oh look out and people that play pickup with me will We'll test. Oh look at this guy. I think I'm going over here. That's just how I shoot. K-Lin Clark plays like me. I was doing it before K-Lin Clark. I was doing it before Steph Curry. I was doing it before Damien Lillard. Like 2009 Jesse Collins like like this Because like like like I cannot create my own shot at all So I will never get open to people actually gardening. So my only

1:22:48Path to getting open shots was to get better at shooting from further away where people wouldn't gardening All right, Jesse anything else before we uh we'll let you have the rest of your night No, I mean I've got the gentleman's wrestling podcast of course my podcast um I did a micro episode Uh on this on this very topic the aggregator topic not my three point shooting uh But uh, people can check that out wherever they find their podcast of another episode coming up this weekend recording on Saturday morning Have a really interesting topic that we'll get to you can check that out um But yeah, that's that's what I'm focused on there. There you go gentleman's wrestling podcast here on the voice wrestling podcast network Find it on your podcast app of choice as well is on YouTube as well of our podcast are available On youtube youtube.com slash voices of wrestling all right Jesse Thank you so much for coming on here and I'll talk about the subject and again you guys I would also recommend still listening to that we we touched on a little bit I think you did a fantastic in what 17 minutes or however long that was

1:23:50I think you want to hear me like yelling about it. Yeah getting very mad I love the I love the build up to then you just getting very like at 11 minutes. You're just like all right You know what? Fuck this I'm mad now, so uh it's good stuff. So the gentleman's wrestling podcast Uh, the voice wrestling podcast network on your podcast app of choice as well as on YouTube so I'm happy you had me on because the end of the day Rich this is important because no one else is gonna talk about this stuff. No, no, this is the only show that of of Any amount of consequence that's gonna talk about this topic which is uh for real like I'd like to talk about wrestling meeting and things like that. I mean Joe I always say me rich mean Joe want we should do a wrestling media podcast, but it would get so many people so mad so fast Yeah, don't don't do that It's not worth I would have to deal with That I was that I don't want to deal with uh would be numerous so um take care guys. Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks so much I have a good one. Thank you. Jesse All right, it's just you and me and then there were two suits

1:24:51All right, let's uh, let's we got a couple other things to talk about here. Let's go quickly uh with these no one gets it The all-out preview here in a moment. Let's talk about the paramount wbd. Oh, no, oh, I forgot. Do you have a bonus topic here? I have a second Bonus topic is it tna related because I don't want it to be It is not okay. He is not okay. Good. Go on all right So the last time I hosted the flagship was all the way back in 2022 Was it really in that long time ago? It was yeah according to me searching my name in the podcast Maybe you're uncredited where you uncredited at one point I don't think so that's a long time ago man time moves fast Um, but one thing we did as I watch uh the Atlanta Falcons are kicking the shit out of the packers right now That is surprising but um One thing we did we were talking about WrestleMania in the buildup to um that year's WrestleMania how stone cold was

1:25:51Kind of coming back but not um, but one thing we did that's kind of haunted me for a while was We did a banter segment About the pro wrestling t's venture power bomb pizza Do you have any recollection my god power bomb pizza sort of yeah, I kind of do Oh, what do you remember all that that many details about our remember it existing very briefly But I don't know if I remember all the ins and outs of it Well power bomb pizza was Essentially a ghost kitchen that was open in Vegas and Huntington Beach, California Maybe Tito or T's was able to enjoy him some I get a small bomb pizza at the time um You talk this I remember this segment because I did some self-scouting and I I tanked it. I was not ready to banter. I was just kind of

1:26:51I was like Greg Valentine. I needed a few minutes to get me on that before I was able to uh Before I was really able like get it going So uh Well, hey, I'm on the flagship again. I'm getting a mulligan baby. We are redoing the segment Power bomb pizza. All right, let's go on power bomb pizza. I listen to the show I know that okay, cuz I don't remember about it all I got all the apps I got all the pizzas that were Promoted at the time. This is a credible I went to power bomb pizza.com. Yeah, but When I did firefox warned me that the site might steal my credit card So maybe don't just These just certificate expired Like you know, that might be worth the movie. You're doing it anyway. You're doing it anyway for the best I did You did I did This and the site is just a picture of the power bomb pizza logo. There is nothing else there

1:27:53So I went back I listened to that flagship. I don't know if you See whenever a show gets downloaded or if you notice from all the downloads we get on the voices of wrestling podcast network But um Yes, I downloaded the show back in 2022. I listen to it and we are going to Properly banter about this now. All right, let's do it. Yeah, well, you're gonna have to lead the way There we go. I got it all written down. So we start with the apps and And uh We have the first one was Eddie Guerrero's Latino heat wings. Yeah, what a shock boring. Yes. I mean you can find like Viva You can do Viva La Raza. I mean come on Latino heat wings That's literally the same comp literally the same comments we had four years And my bomb again, we'll see It's just I'm a little more lively and ready

1:28:56Eddie Guerrero's Latino heat. Yeah, I mean it's still easy What if they did like breadsticks in the shape of like a lasso and called it like the lasso from El Paso Something. Yeah, it's something and Latino heat wings come on We're getting in the weeds here. Do we know what kind of flavor what the flavor profile of the Latino heat wings were Probably some like buffalo. Yes, and that doesn't like if you're gonna call the Tino heat It should be more of like a yeah like a some sort of dish inspired by But it probably wasn't it was like you said it was probably just some buffalo wings that were kind of hot So they were called Latino heat wings get out here rich. This is ghost kitchen wings like well Like you aren't getting like this go truck with with a bottle of You know, not named brand Frank's hot, you know buffalo hot sauce Smothered all over it. Yeah, okay Um The other app which

1:29:56What were we supposed to do here? Why was this like a goat why would anybody order these things ever Good question. Okay, I don't know question. Shelton They were they were I think the money went to The wrestlers and they were like soup like they were very high price like Ghost kitchen like pizza items and like the wrestlers would get like you know a cut off it. So I don't know People just like just money Money to an organization if you care rich the certificate for the website died in 2014 Nobody did So the next appetizer the last one Was one we both had issue with because it doesn't make sense logically is a gangrel's fantastic garlic breadsticks. I mean the obvious there is garlic and a vampire. I mean he should

1:30:57Want no garlic on the on the breadsticks He should want nothing to do with them Maybe for me don't mind the other Christian Maybe Andrew Christian would be there would be better for because they will stop being vampires right right Like maybe this cure their vampirism right right the hardy boys after their brief for way and Into a gang girlness and then they discovered after winning the tit That maybe that they should hang around with Terry instead of gang girl instead of this creepy fat vampire guy They should hang around with the Terry Rennels in 1999 and they did so yeah, maybe they maybe they too Had some garlics, you know the garlic breadsticks and said what are we doing with with this weirdo? What do we know we're done with this we're going we are winners of the tit. We are gonna be managed by Terry It was forbidden The Undertaken awful promo the brood saw the brood always yeah you got the

1:31:58Theme song of that entrance did so much work for those guys, but yeah, they fucking stunk all the time I was thought about that when game was spit all that blood all I imagine being in the front row and just Being doused by this dude's red fucking fake blood spit red viscous liquid. Yeah, I can't that fuck. I mean so mad You came over remember what W you remember the WCW when they would drop the new blood from the seal Yeah, I would miss all the time miss half the time yeah, just in the The front row yeah, you'd see the front row go oh Right because now you're filled with that you are filled with that shit and I'm actually like pulled over afterwards Like you're driving and like maybe you forgot the turn signal on the highway. It's 11.05. You know You're the only person on the road You don't you just stop you and they're like Sir, you're like all right look The new the new blood which is Vince rear-side Eric Bay is like step out of the car sir

1:32:58You got to stop out of the car like you know you're filled with fake blood you can't get that what are you gonna do you can't you're gonna drive shirtless That's not gonna work out for you either like you gotta you have to be a bad gold burn shirt I maybe that was a Very smart idea by W7 to get some merch sales you're right not a bad idea I swear I swear AW did it once with like edge and somebody with copen I think it was malb- malbla That's about right. Yeah, and they did the brood stuff and it's like oh stop Yeah, brood is stop oh yeah, right cuz edge came back and it was like that's brood edge or whatever It's like fuck off. Oh, dummy. Yeah, they did that remember darn me. He was literally announced as brood edge Yes, I was fit now with the judgment day um I was gonna say the fracture of the judgment day, but it was only there's still fucking kidding Is it One of like the nine duds I've ever given out at WrestleMania was that cage match and he color coded weapons

1:34:00Oh my god, well see it wasn't the title card didn't it say brood edge on it? It said brood edge Yes Remember edge did that cave man we broke his leg. I do Now that yeah, that was against malbla. Yeah, so I got did they do brood I don't know they did blood stuff. I don't even they did because game growl like popped out from under the rain all that remember Yeah, you're right. They did Bring For some sick 1998 like a couple months in 1998 nostalgia for the fucking brood on believable Gas leak season anyway Now to the pizzas. Okay, we just run through the east all right We had the four cheeses of Foley pretty good. All right. I'll get that's not bad. That's not bad So I look enough a godfather's pimping pepperoni Vaters mastered on meatlover pizza. Okay

1:35:01Again, those aren't bad those aren't bad. It's fine. A second the thought god put him. Yeah. Yeah, the massed on meatlovers I like that. That's a nice one RVDs that's a lot of veggies pizza Which I guess it's just a joke of hey, that's a lot of green Grass Smoke them Yeah, RVD didn't I was gonna say RVD in the rascal, but I think TNA did that once That's That would be pitched in a room and and sent to a raw van Dan that sounds that sounds like a TNA on like twitch error idea How have they not Anyway, we're getting side track the bunch LOD Chicago Street fight pizza. Yeah, no see that style that stinks. That's low effort. Let's call it LOD Chicago style

1:36:03Yeah, just LOD Chicago style it or yeah, so there's there's a many different ways you go Yeah, Chicago street you're adding too many qualifiers there. We don't need Chicago Street fight. Just just Chicago style. Yeah Kevin Nash is big sexy sausage pizza Um dig Joe. Yeah, okay. All right. Yeah, I was gonna say this should work with like a diesel powered one But then I don't know if you want a gas connotation when you're giving somebody a pizza like it's gonna taste like gasoline or whatever And then you also need big sexy to talk about his dick a lot. So yeah, that actually works that works That's probably he probably pitched that one. He's like, I may have you can be doing pizza man I don't want about my dick fucking huge man. All right Did I talk about him sipping his wine? Throw it in his hair back and be like man if I'm gonna have a pizza and he's be asked for my big fucking dick All right Kevin All right big sexy great

1:37:06I hate how people like him I always I'm sorry I did this rant in 2022 as well, but like I just hate that that guy skates by In wrestling history even though he was as destructive as many other people and nobody gives him shit because he's vaguely liberal And he's just like yeah, man. I'm fucking known fucking marks. Yeah, bullshit. Bill go over. He couldn't work You're like you're Kevin Nash dude. I got paid Yeah, hey man, we're all just getting paid you know Just get out there you work in You remember the you You remember that who killed WCW thing we're at the end all these people are talking about like how they lost their jobs And they lost like they're these friendships that they made over the years and Nash is just like Oh, yeah, I got paid Yeah, worked out well for my deposit worked every two weeks man It's like it Which I appreciate that to some extent, but it's also like you booked it in 1999 when it was on its fucking tailspin brother Like I'm not letting you off the hook and you also beat Bill Goldberg, but anyway

1:38:08Well working yourself to do so. Yes, right and he always pretends that he wasn't the booker even though he absolute 100% was A part of the booking team at that time Did he have to win all the time to get over? I mean, it doesn't sound like he's very over Yeah, well And then Piper's barbecue pit pizza though Piper pit Barbecue I was trying to think if you could do a better barbecue Um or a better Piper thing, but I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if there's anything else. That's I had the Piper's pit Barbecue pit I all right. I'll let him have it For their generic acid barbecue chicken pizza. That's chewy garbage Cisco You know chopped up chicken with some generic barbecue sauce on it. Yeah. All right, whatever I got the Thursday night football on rich there are a lot of surrender cobras in the Lambo field right now Oh, it's in Lambo. Oh wow. Yeah, yeah, it is It is getting laterally for the pack. Well, they're like uh, there are no like a six-game losing sugar at this point, right?

1:39:12Well, no, they uh, they hadn't won a game since a micaparstance got hurt last year But then they beat the jets last week. Oh, okay. All right. Yes. Yeah, beating the jets as counts Yeah, and now they are getting their ass is kicked by the Falcons who have looked Who in the past two weeks have looked as incompetent as any football team I've ever seen it is currently 27 to 7 So uh, that's not great Matt LaFlore Bad days first start looking for uh, I'd start making calls. Hey Need a need not think of assistant over there. I got a great playbook. Look at my playbook. It's big Yeah And then uh, Bret Hart's best there ever was Supreme pizza which Not very good. I would have called it the Hart family supreme pizza because there's so many toppings Just like there's so many brothers That's a good one or like a Canadian bacon like a heart foundation Canadian bacon like a supreme's kind of lame like supreme's just yeah

1:40:14or um What's like something with like Calgary Bret Hart's Calgary crust supreme yeah, yeah, what would that entail? Like a routine style uh pizza or something but that's that's we're asking a lot of a ghost kitchen That's just ripping open white Cisco boxes the white sprozen Cisco boxes to Sell like ten thirty dollar pizzas. Yeah, this cannot. Yeah, was it did anybody? I don't I wouldn't we probably Post this question in 2022 and asked if anybody had ever purchased a power bomb pizza I think it was available in Chicago as well. Remember correctly. I never Never engaged in the power bomb pizza. Yeah, what the hell um Aircruel says is the Bret pizza super self-righteous. Yeah, so of course it had to be right I saw did you see on youtube they released a every billgover lost in WCW a compilation video and I you know He cleared whatever he had planned for tonight gone That's on the big screen big bull upon porn

1:41:16Bill Goldberg Say in the words bill well he wouldn't like it because one of the macers was him getting kicked in the ad Oh, that's true. Yeah, I'd have to shut it off at that time too. It doesn't know how to work Or maybe just telling the whoever's way through the low key doesn't know how to work can't fucking work With that can't right there can't work at all There's one thing him and hunter could get along about it would be gold Bill Gold would not be able to work. Yeah Yeah Oh god, all right well All right, can we get in the you know one of the things that were on the list Of like things to talk about Pay reviews weekend. Yeah, yeah, massive a wp review. I had to head with ww running a head to head show Also successful in the same week. I mean, let's let's real quickly Paramount merger sales slash merger whatever So obviously California lawmakers caved to a ridiculous degree to this merger and now it's happening So paramount wbd sales slash merger whatever you want to call it As far as it relates to pro wrestling though a w president Tony con because there's a lot of doom being about like oh well there if there this happens

1:42:20Like WWE is gonna tell paramount they can't have you know They w on the TV anymore. So iw president Tony con he went live on twitter on wednesday and he is excited about the merged company The new company says quote. I've made it no secret dozens and dozens of times I've gone on the record instead. I look forward to a time when hopefully it will be paramount and Warner Brothers together I think it will make a w stronger what a fantastic announcement for a w and our fans to have the leadership of the great David Ellison leave that alone Coming in this is somebody who loves professional wrestling and loves sports is somebody who I've worked with in the NFL This is a great tv producer a great film producer and somebody who I think is gonna be a great leader for Warner Brothers Just like he is now for paramount and I'm excited about what is happening in the world of media Well, I'm glad you are And you should too if you're an a w fam because ladies and gentlemen This is a great time for us now first off suit Of course he's not gonna come on and say oh my god. We're doomed. Oh my god. We're fucked but I also I believe that he thinks that this is a good merger for you know for him and for you know He has a relationship with David Ellison and he's a billionaire himself

1:43:22So i'm sure that will certainly help things as well But yeah, what do you make of Tony cons optimism about this sales slash merger Well, Tony seems like Very excited about this like getty like absolutely getty about this thing and like look he would be like Because he's an NFL owner. He's a primarily You know Premier League owner ownership like he would be in the same rooms as like a David Ellison So maybe they have had you like and that's what I think people a lot of people don't like Like even a lot of like Tony's like like fans don't like Really understand like how rich he is and like the rooms that he's in right right because of like what he does outside of wrestling like i I think there's a shot like that they've had conversations and that they've been positive and that's why he's so Because if you remember he was very like Gungho about this thing going through beforehand like it sounded like he was very like

1:44:25I Willing to push it through or like wanting the what to have been pushed through Before like when it was getting held up and now that it seems to be going through He seems very like confident in a way that Signals something, you know the same way he feels kind of confident about Whatever's coming around in April next year Yeah, they're playing this game at chicken. I think where WWE is just not gonna announce when russamania is gonna be Tony's probably waiting for that. No, there's also There's all the king of Saudi Arabia gestures towards Saudi Arabia. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll just you're there Yeah, it might not even happen and in the kingdom of Saudi Arabia this year. Hey, that was show coming up What month or so crown jewel? We'll see but yeah, I think that's it's important thing that you bring up is that A W exists because Tony Khan was in Social circles that you and I are not in he was there with Kevin Riley, you know

1:45:28He was at a party with Kevin right. I'm guessing it wasn't at a chillies. I'm guessing it wasn't at like you know A VFW hall and they were having like a pancake breakfast or what I'm sure it was a very exclusive party with very exclusive people That Tony was there with because he is a man whose father owns a yacht that you can park a yacht in you know what I mean like again The and I always always always always bring this up to wrestling fans because a lot of wrestling fans Just cannot comprehend this because in their they go close back to discussion we had earlier in the show about like the vince McMahon is their universe Vince McMahon's don't be as their universe. Vince McMahon is is is he took down billionaire tatton He rules the wrestling industry and he's a millionaire and honestly Like Vince McMahon that his wealth as a drop in the bucket to Shad Khan and Tony Khan. It is they are multitudes richer That's the man is there here's hot here's how I compare it Vince Use Ted D. Biasi to make fun of people like Tony Khan. Yes, because he couldn't get in those rooms because he was a little

1:46:33Little rassling promoter That's that's the type of wealth we're talking about the wealth that Vince Mocked with Ted D. Biasi because he was so insecure about well Not wealth not at he's wealthy to a norm to like us. Yeah, of course. He's not like He's the poor guy in those rooms Hey guys is rich from the voice wrestling podcast network letting you know that we've once again partnered with an old friend My bookie football is finally back everyone and whether you've been betting on football for years You're just looking to put a little action on the game this season My bookie is where we're all playing here on the voice wrestling podcast network now I'm far from an expert on sports betting especially college and pro football But you don't need to be an expert on my bookie they make it easy to figure out and find a play you like and take That shot and that's what I love about my bookie you can find the action you want bet on it wherever you are when the game kicks off And that's very important whether you're on your phone you're at a bar even at an apple orchard

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1:48:42It's easy to spend plenty of time behind the wheel whether you're commuting from OC or heading to Santa Barbara for the weekend Going farther between fuel stops is something everyone can appreciate That's exactly what Kia's hybrid lineup is built for Kia offers five hybrid models that combine turbocharged power with hybrid efficiency with some delivering more than 600 miles of driving range on a single tank one model that really stands out is the all new 2027 Kia tell you ride hybrid it offers seating for up to seven passengers the confidence and capability of a three row SUV And a turbocharged hybrid powertrain that delivers impressive efficiency for fewer stops at the gas station It's ready for weekday errands weekend getaways and everything in between if a hybrid fits the way you drive Kia has a model designed to fit your needs learn more at Kia.com or visit your Southern California Kia dealer Yeah, and that's why he always wanted to diversify ww wanted to make money in hotels and and and restaurants and real estate and buying all these different things

1:49:48And he was always on success lead and And the only thing he was ever successful at is pro wrestling and an eats at him every fucking day And we always see you know Joe and I always talk about how if you want to take some solace In vincex man's you know, you don't like the guy and you're like god How is he always so successful? How does he always get away from everything? Just remember that that guy's head hits the pillow and he Hates that his legacy is tied to Pro wrestling and so much so he wanted it to be called sports entertainment and nobody fucking calls a sports entertainment besides his employees That are told you have to call it sports entertainment But not one human being on earth has ever earnestly used the term sports entertainment So think about that did you see did you see that clip of cofee on whatever sit down and was with Renee And he was talking about he like slipped and said wrestlers And then like Austin like tapped them on the shoulder. He's like, hey, you don't you can say brother You could say it like you're okay. Yeah, they're getting deep program. Yeah, yeah, you can see like the wait fall off of cofee Shoulders he's like right I can say I don't have to stop myself and say superstar or sports entertainment or

1:50:51You know championship you can say belt, you know, I can say belt. It's okay. Yeah, there was great I'm one of the triple manias Cory Graves said belt and JBL who is still pro and I was like, I Cory a belt hold your pants up That's a champion chip and I was like let it go man come on like the guy's not around anymore He's not gonna yell at he's not gonna yell in your headset. It's okay. You can just call it a belt And he was like I'm going any no belt. That's jamming to your belt hold your pants up And it's like exactly the line that Vince would use in their heads at anytime they would say belt. It's ridiculous, but um No, Tony you're talking about multitude of things more wealth like just multitudes more wealth and I always bring this up with Whatever happens with this paramount wbd thing obviously AW will be better off it if it's on a television network and if it's getting paid millions of dollars to be on a television network Of course we all understand that Tony's gonna Tony's not gonna like if if something happens He's not just gonna give up and say I fuck it. It's over man. I truly believe that like I this guy loves professional wrestling

1:51:54He will find a way to make it work whether they have to do you know time buys with it whatever and I'm just I'm giving like the worst possible case scenario Where where for some reason David Ellison who's been having you know, Tony thinks he's having good conversations with the guy He's excited about it and then he turns out to be a total Rad even for for most of the reasons he already is but um he turned out to be a rat to Tony and just says no You're off the air. You're not gonna be on any of your networks like people don't understand that this guy will He will probably find a way this is what he wants to do This is what he's always wanted to do he has a ton of wealth He doesn't have to operate a w as much like a business as he does and that's the biggest fallacy the lot of dumb people have About Tony Khan is that they're like he's just spending his dad's money and it's like Some of us wish he was because he doesn't do he runs like a very fiscally conservative company and he he does things to make sure that they make money And he does things that will you know in some cases probably Stunt the growth of the company, but he wants to you know see it as like he doesn't want to go out there and just blow a billion Dollars every single year on this this this venture that he does so when people call him like a money mark and all this or say like you completely off

1:53:00Face of of what this guy is but with that said if he wanted to just wake up one day and say you know what I'm just gonna I could use half my wealth over the next 20 years to just keep this Rick and wrestling thing alive like he could and Look if NFL teams I bring this up all the time with the cons When car stop having bumpers and NFL teams and Premier League teams stop being valuable Then we can get concerned about the cons and their money until then I think we're okay. I think they're gonna There One of those three things makes more money than most people will would ever even dream of Whether it be the bumper company the premier league team and then Tony has other ventures as well that is out there So it's just so funny that that gets bought up and and you know real quick and then then I'll let you have the floor here I always think that we're gonna talk about this when we talk about somebody you made of it You know this actually works out perfectly. Let's uh do you have anything else on this merger? And I'm gonna I'm gonna talk about rumble here What you're very sure to rumble

1:54:00I Don't answer the thing is about like Tony like Not only is this like Tony's like Dream to be running a pro wrestling company He also now he's also a poster and he also does not want to lose to these people now Like I'm sure like he never I'm sure like he never did but like He's very much like What what was the quote I got a lot more money than Jim Crockett and I'm not taking this shit. Yeah, yeah, I'm a lot more Fuckin' money than Jim Crockett. Yeah, basically, you know, I'll get the exact quote there But I've got a lot more fucking money than Jim Crockett and I'm you know basically when it's and the sound was all fucked up because something happened and that One of the many things and that all outpresser. Oh, that was that one too right? Yeah, same one Oh What a night I'm sitting in an iHop listening to you and Joe here. There's about it. Well, you're getting live off the show

1:55:04But yeah, by the way folks Tony can't lose um, I don't know how much money people think Tony's spending on like his roster or he thinks he like What they think that they're losing more money on like Talent than they're making with the television deal right like they think Tony's running this team like he's running Like a a mid-level baseball team like what do you think the payroll is brother? like But uh if you lost five million dollars every year for ten years like How long would it take him to run out of money? Like five million dollars a year. Oh take how many years be one like 30 Like you wait more than that because you know, it's like that then that's that's assuming that he makes no other money in any other venture That is him giving up every other venture all of his investments everything and only spending five million dollars And I still think it would take like Like a hundred years Because the guy's a billionaire right isn't quite literally a billionaire

1:56:05Yes, it's I mean we saw him he tried to he put a bid in for the wwe could buy them yeah, and that that is exactly Why I was gonna bring up okay, and this relates to you know, WWE made event has is moving to rumble don't I Oh Terrible, ridiculous This brings up a point Jesse made on the discord. I wish he was still here to like make it but If you look at which one of these come like if you looked at these companies blind And you like looked at who's like chasing every dollar and running it like a tighter budget tighter purse rings Who looks like the company going out of business? Yeah, it's not AW They're sticking with you know, they're on a TBS T and T H. B. O max they're fine Like it's WWE where they're chasing every penny they can get god knows you like if they're going to rumble for main event which

1:57:05Why is main event still a thing but If they're doing that for main event what are they gonna do for fucking triple A like Where like what dollars what pennies are they chasing now? It's like It's ridiculous. They had the the little Twitter deal with the speed belts everything anything anything and anywhere to be a rumble they they will take anything and That that that that brings up my larger point that I wanted to get to is that for all this you know Handering about while you know if David Elson decides this then you know You might not exist and it's like of all the companies that I am more I'm always more I always look at it and say the company I would Not bad on existing much longer would be dar to be and I think dar to be is going to this as well But like if gun to my head if you had to say which of these two companies is gonna go away sooner The reason I would say WWE is because it's currently run by people that don't give a fuck about the company They don't care. This is not the family business anymore. This isn't vincex man

1:58:06Inheriting his father's business. It's not Stephanie inheriting her father and her grandfather's business It's not Paul Avec running his father-in-law's business. It's not Shane McMahon running his dad's business It's none of those people. It's just fucking sharks. It's just guys that that are just this is their job right now And all they're trying to do with with all these little deals is just Maximize the profits as much as they possibly can maximize maximize maximize we have to put main event on rumble sure whatever We have to you know put raw on Netflix great whatever we have to pay while this and pay while that and ESPN unlimited and all these sort of things They don't care they don't care because it's like I don't give a shit if it's harder for wrestling fans to watch I don't give a shit of long term like people always bring up like well That's gonna really hurt like you know I became wrestling fan because they were free it was like free on peacock and I believe that was a huge huge thing for people You know, I knew several people I worked with people who you know they were watching yeah watching it on Fox And then watching on peacock like it was so accessible and that kind of I think was a big part of What's spurred their that that boom period that we had relatively recently was that it was just so easy and accessible to watch this

1:59:08So it was you know, you could watch it for free you can watch it on Fox you can watch on peacock for free And now they just keep putting paywall after paywall after paywall and people are like well That's gonna really hurt like young fans are gonna have trouble watching this they don't fucking care You think area manual gives a shit about some 11 year old perspective wrestling fan. He doesn't care in 10 years He's gonna be doing something else Mark Shapiro will be doing something else in 10 years. There is no way that these people are our WWE lifers This is their job right now. Whereas Tony Khan. I don't think Tony's gonna wake up one day and go you know wrestling It's kind of I don't really give a fuck about wrestling and just stop like this is a kid I say a kid But you know he grew up loving wrestling. This is somebody who has loved wrestling his entire life I don't think he's gonna wake up one day and just say ass isn't worth the effort. Fuck it. I don't care anymore And just you know, it's over It's like oh, I don't get you know this X amount of millions of dollars from you know Warner Brothers Ah fuck it. I don't care anymore. I'm done. I'm gonna move on to just doing this or that this is his This is him running to him his family business to him. This is his life. We heard this is what Vince McMahon was it would be what Shane McMahon was would Paul Leveck was with Stephanie

2:00:11If man was what all those people were this is their this life's work Mark Shapiro and area manual and all in and and and and and and Nikon these guys don't care. This is just their current job Yeah, it is It's a bunch of people just On one ship and once it sinks they will hop to the other one of course back Yeah, they they they are sharks they they whatever wherever they can go they'll go and yeah If you think that they're gonna go down with this ship if you really think that they're gonna sit there and be like Okay, well, we have to downsize this and down. They'll just leave. They'll just leave and get another job Oh, I and look these guys can easily get hired by any other company They could say oh, I well, I was a part of this and I did this TV deal and we did this and we did this and the people go Okay, great. Yeah, and they would hire Mark Shapiro again. I mean the guy has been hired a thousand times and there's There's some skeletons in the closet does not matter because it's Mark Shapiro and he's got that name These guys will always have those names. So yeah that that I always find that the fallacy of People assuming that AW is the one that's on shaky ground and Derby is just ever present whereas like a TKO could just decide one day

2:01:19Yeah, this is fucking. I don't need this shit like it just sell it and gone We'll put these efforts in the boxing. Yeah, put in these efforts in the UFC Yeah, we're done with you right and I don't think that's gonna happen I'm not predicting that like in these yeah, I'm not predicting it's gonna happen like tomorrow or whatever But I think of of of the companies that have The most volatile volatility it's it's it's way more volatility and like you said you look at the two companies and you in a vacuum And you got one company that's like very you know secure and and and you know how is under one family of networks and then you have whatever This is where it's like to watch this show you need 17 different apps and all these different paywalls and they're just chasing every less penny To try to you know, it's just it's crazy, but I don't know Yeah, all right We'll see who Accurator's I was working this week. Accurator's I went home to us

2:02:22Versus whatever PC trainees there. Yeah, yeah, Ryan Bay Ricky Saints those things of that nature, but oh no She hasn't worked you know she hasn't worked yet on the main roster. She hasn't had her first match yet. Wow Someone brought it up her entire AW run happened in the time between her Signing with NXT and having her first main roster match. Wow. Yeah the entire run All of it Chat with the debut championship blow off all of it. Yeah, I still think that that's like the perfect like modern wrestling run I wish more people would do those sort of things they have like their year and they'd like what a run I mean you have your year and you do it. I was always like he I'm sorry. I'm distracted. He would author blank on the sideline that fucking super villain Falcon down. Not super villainy With a little pencil mustache like he looks like a cartoon villain. It's so good

2:03:23But yeah more like I always say like Mariah may play everything right up to like the end where she was in like a bidding We're like she got in the bidding war and it's like Oh well actually, it's my dream. So I will take this deal. Yeah Don't say that Oh man, she stumbled at the last hurdle. Yeah, he just It's her dream. Okay. Well, cool. Enjoy your dream Um, all right, let's talk about all I'm excited. Do you have anything more on rumble? I may have had an rumble I never watched made event and I certainly will not be tuning on a rumble But it'll be fun to watch like wrestling reviewers that have to sign up for rumble to review made I got some troubling ads When I signed up for this thing Yeah, a lot of men. Yeah What is this? Oh My yeah

2:04:23Yeah, all right. That's that's pretty low. I mean before we saw I mean Putting your show in rumble is like that's the intention and right For people who don't know rumble is like So whenever like people get kicked off of Yes, yes For being like you know Several istes They end up on kick right Well, when you get kicked off of kick Then you end up on rumble right that's where they are They've stuck main event on the place where you are the second tier of twitch When you're too racist for kick You move to rumble Boy, that's that's a level I mean, this is like in a pantheon of like two of these one thing like a valve on two be is one thing But a wd like a presumably WWE roster show on something as low as rumble is like humiliating like

2:05:26Imagine I'm just saying that press release out to people imagine like Going to a room like going to it like the lawyers in WWE and being like all right You need to like look through this paperwork. We're gonna put main event on rumble It's like what that's like pop TV destination America shit like what are you doing about to say and that's even It's worse than that because those are at least like That's like pursuit channel Yeah, that level right right what is like what's happening here like how did it get this low and this is WWE You need this money for main event that much you need that of a percentage point on your stocks or whatever like It's nice I don't get it and I it's I would love to see the numbers on that Yeah, I had nobody's they haven't said anything right which that's how you know it's like almost nothing Right, well, I was thinking like viewership. Oh, you like I can't imagine yeah

2:06:28It's probably more than we would like to think then are watching those because they're probably like Yeah, it sucks that you can't say that that word on kick what a bullshit liberals have taken over kick too. This is bullshit like Yeah, that's Okay, I thought Jordan loved through another pick then the game, but It got dropped now game over anyway. Okay. All right. Let's lock in for let's yeah, let's let's dig wrestling weekend in Chicago Yeah, huge wrestling weekend in Chicago. Yeah, our to the beginning of our three. Let's actually talk about the major wrestling shows Going on this and that's the flagship experience whether whether it's me and Joe or suit Jesse and me It does not matter that is the experience. Oh, yeah, Simmel has a 93rd anniversary show. We'll get to that at some point Let's start with all outs. Let's start with all out running on Saturday night of course from the now arena I'm lovely off in the States. You've been there. You know how beautiful it is this time of year

2:07:29The highway The parking lot that looks out to the Cabela's. I mean, it's gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous The holiday in next to the main event. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh beautiful. Yeah. How was the continental breakfast at the holiday in next to the arena? You never did you ever stay there? I forget No, but I was stranded there after that first all I hope all that's the one where we got a frantic text from you at like yeah There was a frantic like slack message from you at like 145 a.m. And you're like hi. Is anybody still awake? I'm stranded. Please help me and I think Tyler helped you right Tyler for us Yes, yes, it was uh, it was Tyler and uh, what funny was They were at the iHop that was next to my hotel So how they changed the They drove And they didn't know that So they drove there and then they drove back and like we were just there like Dan housing was over there like in full gimmick

2:08:31I'm like wow about that Never mind to be of a time. I was in uh, I was in grand tita national park and we saw some kids that they had like They're on the side of the road. These guys like 18 years old or whatever I said kids But I guess I'm old so the 18-year-olds are kids or whatever And they were like next to a bike and the bike was like clearly mangled and like the tire was all jacked up or whatever So you know, we stop and we're like hey you guys need some help or whatever and they're like oh yeah our bikes fucked like can you drive us to like our hotel or whatever Uh, and we're like I mean if these kids are fine with it like we'll do it or whatever so I was like yeah, all right You know, I felt bad these kids they look stranded They're like sweaty. They looked like they were just to shoveled and I was like we should probably just do this They look fine and whatever so we put them in the car we put with we put their bike in the car I'm like all right, so where are you guys staying and they were like oh like you know this Resorts or whatever and I'm like okay, you know Fine so I put it into Google Maps and it's like 55 minutes. We had to go through the entire and I'm like man Did you guys ride this long and they're like oh yeah, I think so yeah, I don't know I don't really remember but yeah, I think yeah, we were riding for a while. I'm like okay, whatever

2:09:32So we drive like the whole 55 minutes And I realized as we're pulling up to the resort that that is like two minutes away from where I picked these kids up But because it was like a one-way street Google Maps was like no you can't just simply you turn you have to go So we drove these kids around the entire national park to get them back to this resort and we pulled up I was like I thought you guys said you rode for a while and they're like oh Yeah, I guess it wasn't that long and I'm like why would you at some point during the 55 minute drive would you have said Like first off where they just scare and they're like these people are gonna kill us They're driving so far away from where our hotel is like no Never thought the thought never occurred to them to say you know our resort's like literally right back there guys Nothing so we drove 55 minutes of these kids and dropped them off two minutes from where we were before and I couldn't believe God damn it. Yeah, that's totally fucked us here Like It could that I say this with my entire being that could not be me

2:10:35Oh to pick them up right would just do it. Do you ever buy no not like I'd like to think I'd like you're like hey you guys need a little help. I'd like to think I would do that I probably wouldn't you're you're the ah somebody will help him guy. I do These days you see like somebody have a sign of the road changing its higher like yeah, I'm sure they have So I'm sure they've called somebody I'm sure it's okay There's a resort two minutes up the road. They'll be fine. Yeah Yeah God, but I was thinking of like the uh Be being in someone else's car for like More than five minutes not like Not knowing where I'm going right and that's what you're worried if they like it's Certain point just got silent because they're like these two people are gonna kill us like we just don't say anything Like don't like don't say like I think the resort was really I think we drove past the resort like a long time ago Don't tell them anything just just just stay quiet like I don't know. I don't know what they're gonna do And like I remember trying to like banter with them a little bit and they ended up being from like the Chicago area or whatever So we were like oh what did you know so uh yeah? I don't know if they were just terrified for their lives or what happened

2:11:38But yeah, never forget they're from further up all steps street very further Yeah, they were from in elite and that's when I dropped them off at this resort. I then now understood I was like wait a minute these kids They're they were staying at we were staying at um some very Very po-dunk hotel and they were not they were at a ski resort And they were from a town that would make sense to travel to grantees on national park and state of ski resort. So Yeah, whereas we stayed at some Fly-by-night motel or whatever, but anyway, that's not what you called let's talk about all out from Hoffman estates Now arena this Saturday we're back to the Saturday EW pay-per-views, which I am I'm very thankful for Over the Sunday ones because NFL seasons happen so we're back to Saturdays, which I appreciate and it's an interesting card It's it's it's not the most like loaded or gigantic EW pay-per-view And I kind of think that's a benefit. I think this could end up being a pretty fun show because I think every match has a pretty decent build to it Uh has gotten enough time. It does not feel like it's really rushed or thrown together

2:12:42Again, it's not the sexiest pay-per-view lineup, but sometimes those EW pay-per-views end up doing a little bit better because they're not like There was shows you know several shows that they'll do that are just so voluminous and it's like This is a ladder match and that's a false kind of newer match and this is a street fight and that's this There's yeah, there's a ladder match and the others a street fight in this one But I don't know a lot of the other matches are just like kind of straight up matches and I think that ends up usually helping EW pay-per-views all and all but what what are your big picture thoughts about all out before we kind of go match by match here Yeah, I agree they've had like They've had like the top two matches on this show have been built I've been building since like February like Osprey and Mox like the build like This part of the build started when Osprey came back The TLC build started when Copen Christian came back both that revolution and then the way W's kind of like built those matches up where They had the Osprey and the death writers thing and they kind of left that thread hanging

2:13:46So that Osprey could win the belt, but he'd have a strong first defense Like that was a very smart kind of way to be like okay We did the big thing and now we're picking up this loose thread that was That's been built up all year, but we kind of sat down for a second put it on the back burner To actually crown Osprey and now we're going to act to close this loop and move forward with them So I think that was smart TLC was the same way where I could have sworn that would have been the wembley match, but They wanted to do Copen Christian versus the bucks first I guess and So now you don't really have to build anything the story's been told with all three of them Although I did like that segment on Dynamite where they were kind of Where they were getting like snippy with each other and ever and like Copen Christian were getting like annoyed that they were being like over look

2:14:48Like oh, we're gonna be the four-time champs like no, we're We're gonna win this match because we've been in 50 of these because we're old and we're legacy guys And then you know you throw the swerving hangman fans of bone with the trio's right right right in that building Where they had you know one of their great you know great matches, so that helps Yeah, and then Another thing Because Russell dreams in three weeks real quick real quick So they have a couple like Number one contenders matches to set up for that show that's very like That's like w that's like some stuff wcw like in the nitro era would do Which I like but you know the bishoff people would forget that he did but Yeah, I like to think he's do like hey, we're doing a number one contenders match for this next show like I like a lot like I like a lot of this card. I think the main event Like is there a bigger match than osprey mox right now like in this company. No, I mean this that's no

2:15:53I don't think so because like you said it's been it's been built up from day one of you know will ospreys return And and moxley trying to bold this guy in his image and ultimately try to take that you know To john moxley and I guess we can just go right to that main event like john moxley wanted will osprey to win that title He wanted him to be like him win that title also that he could take it from him You know, I'm gonna build you up and and mold you and then I'm gonna I'm gonna take the fucking title from you But I you know I I kind of have a different read on it. What do you have? I of the similar mindset of mox wants osprey to win the title But I think he like Because what's his whole like story bends into like he turned heel He wanted to like motivate the next generation of a w and Doing that through violence like through like he keep like he killed off danielson He's like, you know, he's feud with darby and hangman like he's trying to get these people to like Take the mantle and move forward so that it doesn't keep falling to him

2:16:58Because it always keeps falling the mox like there was that like I don't know if you remember that whole thing We're like mox couldn't take his vacation because he kept having to like yes Every time the company would fall apart. He'd be like, oh right. I have that you know You can just see the plane ticket in hand. He's got like a you know a Hawaiian shirt on he's like, oh right René this time in 24 hours will be in Maui and then it's like Tony, you know, Tony Look John I'm sorry punk fill filled I need help All right We're they six oh you know what zips are luggage all right Sorry Mox with the cooler and the truck. He's about to go fishing for a couple weeks But I see my I've seen this whole like Osprey death writer's story as mox building Osprey up to be the ace

2:18:03This is ace training that he's been going through And he he literally handed Osprey the flag to be the flag bearer of the company at all in like we saw it He passed the torch. It was a flag, but it was a torch and now It's all out and there was a line in a in one of his promos where he said like I'm not afraid I'm gonna lose I'm afraid I'm gonna win and then all of this hard work has been for nothing That's my read on it mox wants Osprey to Be the next leader of the charge the same way he was when he came in day one And I think that's what it's I think that's what's what it's gonna be I think Osprey's gonna win obviously And then I think that's going to lead to the next chapter of mox's story which is His crew turning on because you know Gabe kid is and

2:19:05Gabe kid didn't show up for no reason. He's not here to make up the numbers He's gonna be a guy that matters in this promotion for the next year if You know if Gabe can perform to that level, which I think he can You know you've had pack being all Kind of side eyeing him to yeah, yeah, he's never trusted. Yeah, he never wanted Osprey in the group And he kind of side eyes moxley What's they doing it? Yeah, very dragon gator of him because he always was like side eye and will and like Not kind of he wasn't as welcoming to him as like Daniel Garcia was kind of you know jab and with him or whatever like Pack was always kind of like, hmm. I don't want this guy here. He's not one of us. And now he's like See he was never one of us and Mox's whole thing is like Well, yeah, I didn't even really want him to be I just needed him to be like The I need him to be the guy so that I cannot be the guy anymore. Right. So I can go home

2:20:11Right, and yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, I think I think both the approaches to this match are are you know Whether it's your Like to my read on it's a little different than yours But I think we both were both kind of in the same wavelength though of of what this match. I mean it It's gonna be will and it's gonna be moxley winning and I think we're all kind of ready I don't know about you. I shouldn't speak for you, but I think I'm ready For the next chapter of the moxley story and and for the actual you know, disillusion of the of the death writers Because we kind of thought we were getting that last year after all in that that you know all in would happen hangman And all these guys would look around and be like that's our guy. That's the dude. We're following you Especially with mox especially with mox losing all those match Right, right Yeah, and then like he just like blitzed he did very well in the c2 and then it was like oh, all right Well, I guess that's not the story at all But I think he I think he lost a Claudio in the c2 And then he just won the rest of his Yes, yes, yes So they like teased it, but then it's like nope not yet

2:21:12But it could have been the exact same thing that we're talking about that even if you have the plan to stop using moxley And stop that he just he feels eternal in this company It feels like you just cannot like like when you're trying to write him off You just like I think we just have to have and win a bunch of matches and win the title right? It's like yeah, I think so and it's just kind of you can't let the guy have a break You can't like because he's been so and that's that's one thing I've always admired About John moxley where you know this company For better for worse a lot of the other guys in this company and a lot of the other EVPs They'll come and they go and they they'll be around for a little bit Canny will come around for a little bit and then he goes away for a while Then he comes around in the box They have their little times to where it's like hey where the bucks been we haven't seen them in a while Then they show up and it's like oh, yeah, the bucks are here Fucking John moxley never leaves like you know what I mean like where we talked about how we wanted to take the vacation They wouldn't let him take the vacation. I wonder if he's at a point now where he doesn't even want he like he'd love this shit so much And he's so addicted to it that because the guy shows up on Ring of Honor shows And then just like does commentary just like gets at the table he's like yeah, I'm doing commentary And they're like okay, sure like go home mox you can you don't have to be here

2:22:13And it's just like he fucking loves this shit so much That that's just foreign to him to go home and not do anything So I think it might be Difficult for them to like figure out a way to to do this But I just think this is the next chapter of John mox. I don't think he's going away. I don't think they're gonna like Do anything, but I think it makes sense like the story that I have in my head Where you have is that he loses the offspring here, of course like that first off is there what percent chance did you put moxie winning this? I put that at zero that would be one of the worst ideas they could possibly come up with right you You can't go back on like after all in you can't you can't dethrone Will like this. I don't care if you got like a good read like this would be pushing it too far. This is Oh Especially with moxley being the one that beats him. It's not like a guy who's never like John mox Maybe like At this at this paper view, you know, it would be like hogan and Bach Winkle it'd be like okay

2:23:13You went you tried too hard to like You pushed it too far and you missed the peak right right we're done now. Yeah Yes, this is our spring getting as one so we agree that so then you know Then I think that the the right path would be the rest of the death writers It's thinking that you know either this guy went soft or he you know he lost you know focus or you know You're not the ace anymore that guy's the ace that's the new leader He's got his whole little crew and he's assembling his crew and you know an empire They're getting stronger and stronger and they're adding guys so it all makes sense that you know He probably gets the freaking plastic bag right someone gives moxie the bag and and maybe moxley does go away for a little bit Now do you think that the company could handle moxley actually being away for a little bit? Do you think he can handle being away for a little bit or do you not think that that's the plan is that You know eventually he gets the bag and and and that writes him off TV for at least a little bit My thought was at the end of the show would be Gabe kid Putting the bag on mox, but he's not gonna be there. He's in Kobe for Oh, whatever new band he'll do. Yeah, yeah Him and Claudio

2:24:15So well, I mean That you can't do it pocket. I don't see like the right guy man. Yeah, I don't know Yeah, but Marina you gotta have shaffir do it Look my whole thing is because the blood and guts is coming up It's gonna be death rider Hollywood versus death rider wolf pack Like that's why that's my thought on like blood like what blood and guts is gonna be How we get there? I'm not sure, but I know there's going to be a split in the death writers Probably like all the Europeans on one side and then mox and like I think like you didn't Garcia would like follow him Do you think there's a possibility you could hold off the turn for blood and guts like so moxie loses this match They don't immediately all decide that they're done with this guy right away They they they listen to it for a little bit. They go into blood and guts They lose to to wills united empire and then that's when it's like all right

2:25:17This guy's a false prophet this guy's not what he used to be He doesn't have it anymore You know like he lost to will wants he lost to will twice like he it's over like I think that's a realistic scenario too I like your idea to of Death rider wolf pack or death rider Hollywood But I also in my brain I could also see that being like instead of doing instead of speedrunning it on this paper You especially if you don't have gay kid there To do it that you wait off you wait until blood and guts and you do it there where we're finally It's like all right this guy just doesn't have it anymore. He can't lead us into war like he wants used to Yeah, I do think that's pushing I think that's pushing this issue a little too long I think that it's gonna be this is gonna be like one of those things where it's like Where let's like man Tony kind of like We're stretching this thing out a lot, you know like I I think you also want will to move on other things I don't know about you But I think like this would be a good moment for him to hit that fucking hidden blade one two three and then will you know That's it the the story that we've been telling since the minute he came back. It's over. It's done

2:26:21He's the champion he beach on moxley That's all in the past and now we can move on to doing something else because you're right if you keep it going It's like are we still all along are we doing this will us rage on moxie thing how many times the guy have to win To finally just put this guy in the rear view. I yeah, I could see that happening too is it feel a little too long in the tooth Yeah, yeah And then just a thing about this from my business perspective I think Because the show sold out Russell takes has it at 92 16 distributed. They were saying on dynamite for the last I think he's been sold out for like two weeks two weeks. Yeah, they've been saying sold out for two weeks now Yeah, like that's excellent. I think this is gonna do I think this main event is gonna do big business pay-per-view eyes like Because all in broke the record broke the The all-time market for the company Right, I believe so I believe so yeah, we don't ever get the actual numbers We just have to take what you know Tony told Dave or whatever but it seems from the reporting that David yeah that it broke all company records

2:27:31So let me find cuz I pulled up the There's a wrestle nomics page which has all the Observer estimates on there Let me find that Yeah, so it broke the record at 220 and then The record being the punk debut at all out of 21 being 21 Double or nothing from this year did 205 which is How about that But um, yeah, I think the show's gonna I think the show's gonna be in that range like I think I think coming off of that major That major all-in show and that acclaimed of a main event And having like this main event like ready to go right after that on the dynamite after and it felt big when they put that graphic on the screen. Oh, yeah I think this is gonna do big business and if it does

2:28:33like that's the final like nail in the coffin of The argument against the whole osprey death writer thing Because it would have absolutely working getting will over as like V-top guy in the promotion if you like if it built up to his main event at all in breaking the company record for pay per use and then the big mox blow off Also doing big business like You cannot like this story that they did and there was like I didn't like the tag match they did with the box, but that was about it But as far as like its effectiveness went and like it's creative and it's a business goals of getting osprey over To the point where he's like a real like money drawing like top guy You can argue that it didn't well. No, you can't really did Yeah, he feels like he's like

2:29:34Yeah, he feels like a capitalist star right now like I know in that dynamite yesterday It was like Yeah, it was kind of a sleepy crowd at times or whatever and then will comes out and it's like fuck I mean you'd see it people just jumping up and down in the crowd and it's like yeah Whatever you want to say about will which so many people have said so many dumb things about will osprey over the years Or whatever, but it's like it's becoming pretty undeniable that the guy is is you know Whatever you don't like his work. That's one thing But it's becoming pretty undeniable that the guy is you know he is over. He's a capitalist star He's a great wrestler like we need to anybody who's got like you know Contrarian takes about will osprey these days in 2026 It's like look you cannot think he's the greatest wrestler ever that's fine. I understand that but like What we got it you can't keep your You're putting up you know you got to start Realizing what this guy is is doing and he's the world champion a company that's that's doing great business and did great business And probably will continue to do great business. So Which yeah and this is like a year that has like the rest of the year a challenger set up because yeah

2:30:34They had Rick like remember that first dynamite after the hip after the paper you they had ricochet out there Gabe kids gonna be They're gonna try and elevate him with this death rider thing He brought up an Omega rematch MJ asked gonna stick his nose back in you know once he gets some free time like I'm trying to obviously always different around there and yeah, they have such a lot of obvious obvious obvious one as well Of course. Yeah, they didn't even bring up like any of the cow's family. Yeah, so yeah, I They're they're they have set this thing up for him to be like a running top guy and if they want to do like the You know the the definitive rain like the ocarina in the uh Like Kobashi ghc rain like if they wanted to do that with little Those are high bars right here in the medium. Yeah, yeah for sure and yeah, I I think you know to also a drug like the the business is great

2:31:36You know doing that over 9,000 tickets or whatever at the same time that they're also you know a ww show across town That's got like 12,000 tickets out or whatever so it's like I would be compelling enough for like Their fans and I think that that's you know what you know I've talked a little bit about it and we're gonna talk about it here a little bit later in the show But I think what really that shows you is that AW fans like true, you know what people that would consider themselves AEW fans Are going to watch this guy or going to watch osprey and moxley. It's not just oh AW's in town I have to go or whatever right it's it's they're obviously compelled by this guy and that match and To you know to to sell out and could they put more tickets on sale? Yeah, probably and will they maybe I don't know I mean we're a couple days away from the show and they haven't yet I think they like the idea of saying sold out and it's not like they said oh fuck we sold 5,000 tickets say it sold out Don't sell anymore tickets. We'll say it sold out and they have 9,000 in that building with tickets out They'll probably end up getting I don't know they could get stuff 10,000 in there if they really wanted to they could do some comps or you know Yeah, in the sweet

2:32:38Yeah, some people in the back, you know Have a kids group come whatever you want to do you can make it 10,000 if you want to make it 10,000 But that tells me that that AEW fans like true what what what I would consider AEW fans that that are Not just pro wrestling fans that are really like died in the wool AEW fans Are seeing this guy as oh, this is that he's a camp miss guy He's he's gonna be in this main event defending this title in a match against Sean moxley I have to be there because there's really I mean you look up under up and down this card We talk about like big draws on the show. I don't think there's a lot of other what I would consider big draws on this show This is this is a show that was sold on osprey and moxley right like it just was it Just what they put that graphic up is when The second that graphic went up is when like you know like oh this is gonna be a big show Well, they were getting because of run by that world's collides show I mean that I was looking at tickets with with a few buddies and and I was like I can wait man those that AW's got like 4,000 out or whatever WWE had like 8,000 out or whatever for world's collider whatever And then osprey and moxley gets announced and boom boom boom boom boom boom and then a couple days

2:33:41Sold out. It's like, well fuck I guess we're not gonna show it Like well, let's see if tickets open up and they haven't yet And now I'm kind of resigned to the fate of just you know watching at home or whatever But yeah, I waited and I waited and like the velocity of ticket sales after that match was announced Uh, it is just yeah, it's undeniable at this point that that was the money drawing match that got people to buy and go to the show So um, it's working. You're right. The story is working and the match should be incredible I mean, I saw these guys live in Chicago as well at the odm resting piece in villa park I wanted a new Japan and USA shows and it was fucking phenomenal. So they have great chemistry together It may not be bad. I mean, yeah, really good. Oh that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah Kind mental title. The first one Yeah, so no doubt. It's gonna be a pretty spectacular match So uh, well osprey job moxley again you and I both agree uh, osprey has to with that match 100 percent Anything else on the main event before we go through the rest of the show here? Uh, not really. It's gonna be great I like if it's great. It's this is gonna be my feud to the year

2:34:41Observe-wise Like a guy. Yeah, what are those contenders? Of top of your head? Darby and JF. Yeah That was strong. I think any of the year kind of tailed off a little bit And then like the business like the double or nothing business also gives it like gives them a feather in the cap on that one Right, right. Yeah I'm not a good fused and wrestling anymore. We always talk about that. It's it's kind of harder to come up with That's probably I mean this is like oh you and you and morrow was like that was just a huge one final Yeah, I mean they could keep that going for the rest of the year maybe but yeah, that's probably one that'll pick up That's probably one where they could be like a few next year and it'll be like a It'll be their big trilogy then But Going up and down this card here. Let's let's go to the go this what I presume will be the summer main event the three way ladder match Tables ladders and chairs cage and cope defending the ta-a-w tag team titles against the young box and FTR and look I

2:35:42I am Very sick of ladder matches. I'm very sick of table match. Is I'm very sick of of of chairs I'm not betting against the young box in FTR and I'm certainly not betting against cage and cope and in this style of match So I I think this will probably fucking rock right? Look What I wrote down was this has a chance to be a standout ladder match Whatever that means in 2026 Like these guys are going to Structure this in a way where it's going to Stand head and shoulders over like whatever else anybody else is like money in the banks in a month like this is gonna stand out Right Any of those right these guys I'm pretty hopeful that these guys are not going to have like your box standard NXT ladder match with you know kendo snigs or whatever like it's it come on. I'm not that'd be ridiculous to To bet against these kinds of remembering the box

2:36:42Calling FTR the deadly boys The best part about that is and I'm sure I didn't check I'm sure it wasn't addressed like they are just begging Bagging bully Ray talk about a w on your show we dare you and you know it's just eating at bully You know I'm commercial breaks. He's like Dave. I've Don't don't I want to say something Dave. I know I can't he's like bully you. We can't bully. We can't I die No, but I really want to say something like you know, it's eating him alive and Matt and Nick who are just so good at being and they did this to punk too They just love needling and then running away. There's those fucking assholes in the school yard You know, I mean throw a rock and then run away. That's that's the young box and I love it That's now that's been them forever Just these little needles and they knew that that would get bull and I'm sure bullies live it somewhere And especially upset that he can't talk about it at all on his radio show Because he would love to be like these guys have no idea

2:37:45In this business I It's like they can't you know anything. Yeah, it's so good He would he would say you know FTR They're pretty close to doubly boys level They haven't done what we've done, but they're close like he would put over FTR But like Not as much as he would put himself over To kind of like make it less of an insult than it sounded right right he would say he would overly praise everybody else He would say add a bull for the Christian cage. We have some of the greatest matches of all time with those guys I love those guys FTR they get it Dave they understand this business like he would just Yeah, it's a not like because he he doesn't want to show that he's upset But he would just overly praise the other two teams And then not have really anything for you know the freaking young box I'm checking the serious XM app here Unless it was mixed in one of the more next Segment I don't think I don't think it was discussed on today's busted open

2:38:48So we got Cody Roman Derby effect quote some Roman Reigns and FL picks. They're coming for your territory there Ah, heart beat begins Money in the bank qualifiers and then that's it. That's all they talked about on the show Fantastic nothing's gonna change He's gonna win that ladder match I think the box because uh the uh Because both the teams in the number one contender match Have uh they had like a little history with the bugs I think plus the boxer selling it as like their last shot which I I don't Kind of silly, but you know, I think they're just selling it to like put over the wins. Yeah, I would add the box Yeah, I would see she runs by the way They were in that segment. Yeah, you popped up twice and just like They just gone poof. Yeah, they're nowhere around yeah

2:39:53Uh will a night and get on Tecla for the women's world title number one contendership match like you said a pretty fun Giving care we do a number of contenderships on this paper view. I don't care. I think that's fine. I think that Yeah, getting a title shot is an important thing and that should matter a lot So I'm telling people what's on the next paper. Yeah, right which is in three weeks I mean you need to use this show to build that you don't have that much TV. So use this show to build your next paper view I have no issue with that My I think willow wins this and my thought is it's in it's in three weeks. It's a short turn around Do you do you throw a bone and give willow and donate the main event? Hmm that'd be a good opportunity to do it if you wanted to yeah because like what could we'll do in three weeks and what you did like A time limit draw or something. Yeah, or like gay kid turns on moxley and will you know it will and and gay kid On three weeks builder whatever you could maybe do if you're always not You're gonna be in Kobe. Forget it in their mind. Yeah, yeah, so

2:40:55Yeah, I think I think they're gonna turn around because Willow brought up something on dynamite in our role promo How her a moneyor two and two now? Mm-hmm. So now they got to split it and I think Hey, we got a pico in three weeks that match was great at that match was phenomenal at all in like if Yes, the main event wasn't one of the greatest matches I've ever seen That match would be like the match of the night. Yeah, that's that's what I wrote about we had all of our technical issues that night So I wasn't able to talk about it, but I said it's like a real shame Because I think that was the best AW women's match since Tony and Jamie Hayder at full year and what whatever year that was 22 or something or whatever that was and I still think Tony and Hayder was a little bit better But it's like right neck and neck that and I have to read I'd have to really go back and rewatch them And it was that good and on any other show that would be the standoff match But then like you know an hour later Willow's big Ken O'Megger came out there and it's like that is a real tough act to follow those two guys

2:41:57Like you you shouldn't feel bad about getting overshadowed by Will Osprey and Kenny Omega the fact that you were and like I think that matches You know, it's not good now. It's pretty damn close to being as good as as Will and and Kenny was as or that That's an acro that's just an all-time great match But I really truly think Willow and and Mercedes was all-time good So the one fear I have and and maybe you can talk me down from this because they don't do this very often So I don't think they're gonna do this I live in fear of the the three-way match of the coward booking three-way match where Willow and tecla something happens And Mercedes is forced to face both of them and we talk about oh my god. She's got 33% Like I live in fear of that. Can you talk me off that ledge? I think they were gonna do that on this yo because I felt like they were building up a three-way It did it did so just Tony stick to his plan like because like Tecla needs to be in the mix that he's been great. She's undeniable. Yeah, I think she'll be fun I think you'll be fine with a loss like you know

2:42:59I Wish I could but uh Well Tony doesn't do like draws on he doesn't do that that often So yeah, that's the only that's the saving grace I have is that like I don't think it'd be like both shoulders were down and they both pinned each other at the same time Oh wait, I guess we got to have a three-way match at uh, you know Russell dream or whatever But I could see a scenario where you know tecla wins and willows like you know no I I you know and and Mercedes Just like I'll take them both out of you know, I don't know There's some like I doubt they're gonna do like some draw or some weird thing here But I do wonder if through promos they can get to a three-way match I maybe not maybe not maybe they don't do it. They just avoid that I would probably if I'm if Because I don't do I want to do tecla and money At Russell dreamer to want to wait for a bigger time for that But then I also kind of want to wait for a bigger time for willow and Mercedes again I don't know this can go a lot of different ways. I guess that's fun I would do will I would have willow win and have willow and mone main event wrestle dream Yeah, that'd be a good way to do it. Easy win. Yeah, cuz and those two would have like a in a wp from you level mean

2:44:03Yeah, and then like you know, they deserve it. I'm using the turn like not the way that you know wrestling fans Think everybody deserves everything, but like those two probably deserve like a pay-per-view main event They've worked their asses off and they've had great matches. They've had great matches with each other So that wouldn't feel like a token like oh, let's throw something to the wokes We'll put a women man of honor whatever like that would be earned You know what I mean that would be an incredible one Right I'll put it here. We'll throw some jump for the blue skies like no That's a that's an absolute like that belongs in a main event that belongs As a paper-viewing event and doesn't feel you know like like you're just yeah, you're trying to force it like that that would belong So I'm fine with that too. So I okay, we'll go with that uh world trios title I I loved this man of the segment Speaking of one for the blue sky. Yeah. Oh, yeah, Swurve and the new level Versus hangman page and brodito now what I did not like was the backstage segment with the new level and Swurve It was a little too can't be a little too the one where like the new level like wait a minute Swurve You don't have any friends and he's like, I don't know if I do. Well wait my music like that was a little too geeky

2:45:07Uh, but at least we know that like this is on an uneasy Alliance here and it puts Swerve and and hangman against each other and those guys side out each other And once they got in the ring and the promo cement they did in the ring. I was back into it Uh, so I like what they were going with there and and and this should be a I mean the new level of work There asses off so far in a w. So I'm excited to see this match I think like as a bell-to-bell match. It's gonna be really fucking good The story that comes out of it. I don't know if we're Are we speedrunning a swurve new level break up already? I don't know if we're getting there just yet But at least they're sewing the seeds of that with the new level being like wait a minute this guys This guy's kind of turned out everybody and he's really has no friends like I don't know or or are they gonna finally? Swurve's gonna find people that belong and his real true friends and they're gonna have a big hearty hug in the middle of the ring I don't know. I don't know what we're gonna do here, but well Matching the thing is that swurve was like hang man. You've done you've like yomp trios too like you're yeah You're no better than me with this. So I don't know if they're gonna do that. I do think my interest here is

2:46:09In the new level because they just feel so So full of life in a w they feel just like a breath of fresh air Which is wild for an act that was on wwe for 10 years as that act and for cofee who's who's been on wrestling television for as long as I've been a fan like For him to come in and just feel so fresh With this act. It's just it's another win for like roster movement and turn over and wrestling although You know, we brought up Mariah May earlier that may only work one way doesn't always work. Yeah. Yeah It certainly has Certainly has words in some I mean you got pentah. I mean pentah just recently made invented You know that raw or whatever. So that's that's yeah, that's one but there yeah rick there are there are a pile of Of bodies on one side that have not Fared as Royce keys leads as a weird staple of guys and stuff. So well that's actually been kind of cool

2:47:10Yeah, it's a kidnap the guy. They didn't know me cared Nobody cared I always loved that on wrestling TV. We're like like acts like true like True acts of like that should matter like I mean it was kidnapped and it's like all right So next up on the wrestling show is no this it's like Ego Yeah, Ethan paid on his way to the ring Right Uh A.W. Women's World tag team title Chicago Street fight I want to be more excited about this match than I am it feels like I the build of this they seem like they just haven't had any ideas So the ideas been like I don't know they drink tea and then they fight and then that's kind of all we've had for four weeks or whatever Which at that point just don't have a segment if you need to have a token segment where people are drinking tea backstage for no reason And then the team shows out to beat them up like I don't know I I've been I'm kind of ready for this to be done I'm kind of ready for the Brawling Burj just to be divine dominion put them in the rear view and kind of move on to something else

2:48:11Is where I'm at so hit each other with some fucking weapons A.W. Women plunder always works. So I'm sure it'll be good, but I'm ready I'm ready to move on from Brawling Burj to divine dominion They did the EW are thing where you're feuding a tag team But you don't have like any like ideas for an angle so you just have the singles matches every week So one week you did Windsor and Bane and the next week you did a cross versus hater cross versus hater. I thought was really good last week, but um Yeah, I Was done like a good job of like developing a mid card with the women lately They still need more depth pieces because like Once the Brawling Burj the win this match like What then right right what other team you got you Persephone the Embryot like yeah, yeah, hi on in my world don't feel like they're quite ready for that just yet. Yeah, it's It's a very good women's roster, but it's very top heavy like you said and and

2:49:13And once you get past it can go it can go south real fast where you're like oh, it's Julia Harton sky blue time Like that's not good. We should be there already like oh no, you know Harley call Harley like when you're calling Harley It's it's it's it's getting rough here pretty quick so Um, I think I think they I'm pretty sure they're gonna get some def later in this in this show that she'll talk about Yeah, I know O'Connor versus champa Uh EW international title match Pretty simple build uh champa making up dream matches that nobody ever asked for I mean like I was around a 2018 man. I don't know anybody that was like I wonder if tamasa champa and the suture go Got a face off with each other. I'll be out. I mean I don't know. I wasn't in every circle But at least the circle I was in I had nobody but that was his whole point of his promo on the go home show was like everybody It's 2018 said what would happen if us can we got in the ring and it's like he's taken like He's taking like P.W.I. articles from like 1992 where it's like what if uh rick flair faced You know this guy I never it's like that never happened buddy like nobody said that but I mean the matches

2:50:14Those were two different like planets you were on right were different islands. They were different planets like no one was No one was thinking of jumping. Oh god. Now it's an awesome man. Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna. It's gonna probably rock. Yeah Like I want to see champa challenge. I was praying this title run like he's Champa's like completely turned my opinion of them around like I was sick of the guy Mostly because he was anchored with gargano for You know happy decade If it's not longer But I want to see him figure it out in the like some top line stuff Uh that champa But he's a great like TV title like a TV TV title challenger with a lot of space between TV and title charity He's a perfect guy to have like main event enough if you want to have will Not even it doesn't have to necessarily be a themed you know dynamite just be an episode of dynamite words I will defend the eight of me world title against him also champa on and and they have a good you know 18-minute match or whatever will obviously win champa works as off

2:51:15You have a couple of hope spots here and there but yeah, that'll be yeah, that's kind of what I envision He's not gonna win this match. They like to have okaada have a title. He likes to wear suit and wear a title They really have no other ideas for the guy except for he has a suit. He has a title so You know uh win this match and they'll have a suit and he'll have a title I want to have a bit of a discussion about okaada because You're kind of you've been down on how like AW presented okaada I have since he's come in I want to ask do you think in okaada world title challenge like on Pete like Let's say he loses this match and they build him up for a world title shot in like December Do you think that would feel like a big deal okaada versus osprey? I Not right now. I don't think so. I think you can do some work on it If you told me that like Say he lost this match here and they're gonna do it at wrestle dream or whatever It wouldn't feel like a big deal because I think

2:52:16He's felt kind of There's been a tinge of of humor and wink wink nudge nudge and comedy through all this I think I need a little bit more serious okaada before we get you know guy that I can plausibly believe should be in the main event going for the world title See I'm a little conch I look at okaada kind of like I came up with this when I was like thinking of this I look at okaada's like cany omega like cleaner cany omega Run it through the juniors when he was like sticking the broom up to gookie's ass or whatever like He like the company knows this guy's a top guy and the fans know this guy's main evented And he's like a big deal But he just hasn't like he hasn't been in that spot yet because they've been doing like very specific things with the world title like He comes in their building up Swarve then they do the big moct the like they do the Daniels and thing into the mox thing which is to set up Darby

2:53:24You know, they're doing a lot of like specific things with the world title This feels like the first time or okaada like wouldn't be a challenge or the month he could like If you built them up he could win the title. I'm like run with it because Osprey was the endgame and now it's like okay What like what's next like what's next is like osprey runs with the belt but like If you wanted okaada like have one of those like Quick switches where he gets like a defense or two in like you know like he had with like Nito or whatever in like 2016 You could do that with okaada now because like the lane feels clear They've booked him with respect like as far as they have those does what I looked it up He's lost seven singles matches in two years Like and I could go through the names

2:54:25He lost a Swarve by dq on a dynamite He lost a Daniels in an o world title match on tv He lost a fletcher in the 2024 c2 Then his next singles loss was to fletcher in the 2025 c2 He went a whole year without getting pinned in the singles match Kevin Knight beat him in the c2 John mockley beat him in the final and then to catch the double or nothing That's it like he's not like Like they're booking him with respect as a singles like star as a singles champion He's had a belt forever like you said like And there's been like there's been little spots where they like put him like either in main events or in semi main events at like Do good business like do you remember that um that match he had with a bouchy on dynamite It was like dynamite 300 I want to say it was like a big name dynamite or something

2:55:25Do you remember that I don't yeah, I don't it's not my head I don't remember like I know it happened I just don't remember any like if you had to make me recall anything that happened in the match. I don't remember much I remember it because it was good. It was it was like the first time a bouchy felt like a bouchy in a while Because he was coming off all the old injuries before the latest one And then I remember that clearly because this was before the rate that like Nielsen ratings went like Crazy and out of whack and they were still useful They drew they pop like a huge quarter hour with that match To the point where I was like do we have to like put a belt on a bouchy like We have to like do we have to like hurry up and like put the gold lovers the tag belts like but um I just I feel like there's like little spots where he's like In like semi-main events or like big marquee matches like underneath like main events on pay-per-views

2:56:27Where the pay-per-views do good business and it's like Most of the credit goes like the people main eventing like double or nothing the credit goes the Darby and Max for their main event But like the second draw and match on that card was like I think O'Cottah to cash do Right I think Unless like something else is on I think the Copen Krish in FTR. Yeah, yeah that's right They were like one of the big three, but he was up like strong support there And I say all this to say like I do think if you put O'Cottah in like Pay-per-view main event like serious spot I do think this AEW fan base is still like Well, I gotta see that Like that's gonna be great Like I still think they're gonna feel that way And I still think they buy him as a big deal That's yeah, I just like to see it. I mean, I think that's where I'm at with O'Cottah is I know they clearly

2:57:27You know, they're careful about how they book them. They still book him with a lot of reverence They still book him with a lot of respect or whatever because I think they still know that it's O'Cottah I just it just feels like that switch like They just seem so cautious and so you know to flip that switch and do anything with him And I understand why there's a lot of other stories they're telling but It's just like you got this guy. I just think there's so much more there's And then he's obviously like Taken it easy because yeah, the first time in years He's not carrying a company on the right right so it's kind of like and I've written about this too Is it a chicken or egg thing? And I know I got a lot of people The blue skies did not like that article at all about O'Cottah And it's like you know, it's it's I called it a relationship of convenience and not passion because it just feels like O'Cottah's cash in his checks and and and god bless him The guy works as a software decade. I was one of the greatest wrestlers ever before even turns 30 I mean like he had an incredible incredible career And this American company was gonna pay him millions of dollars and he doesn't need to be the man He doesn't have to go out every single night and and work as a software 20 minutes. That's a great

2:58:29That's a great thing to get and you get Didn't have like the money anymore. You're right right and a w had an opportunity to sign you know one of the top Japanese wrestlers of all time like that Yeah, of course you try doing a guy who you know can translate to American television in a lot of ways So it all makes sense But it just feels like once that that they put pen to paper. It's just they were like well now what do we do? You know, I mean like and he's kind of like what do you want me to do and I can I play an American wrestling character? And they're like yeah, sure so he's kind of leaned into that a lot where I I just think I don't know if it's chicken and I don't know if like he Doesn't have it in him anymore and they realize that or he's like give me something to put sink my teeth into and then you're gonna get Classic Ocata because we've seen it and that's the thing we've seen little bits and pieces We've seen during the C2 that he is still capable of going out there and having incredible matches. There's no doubt about that This year we saw what's a catch that he's really yeah, yeah, he's got the opportunity to do it. I have no I have no doubt in his ability Oh, yeah, yeah, no, no, it is just the the effort level because You know he's not the top guy and he's not really like doing anything where it leads to him being the top guy at least as of yet

2:59:37Yeah, so just I mean I think you could build them you could I don't think it's impossible. I don't think it's like Sticker fork in him. He's never gonna be a star again You can but I think a lot of stuff has to change about his presentation. It's just general tenor Around the company because a lot of it is just it's all smiley. It's all weak-wink nudge nudge. It's all that sort of stuff I don't buy this version of okada as a pay-per-view main event challenger But you can flip that I mean I've no doubt in my mind that in a couple weeks you could make that guy a fucking killer You know what I mean like and do you remember when he debuted? He had I loved what they did when he debuted because he would do like the bitch and smile or whatever But then he would get in the ring and he would fucking kill guys remember that he would just 90 seconds Yes, and just decimate them and be like don't don't don't take my guy No, I'm you know, I'm wearing suits and I'm coming out of limos and I'm I'll fucking murder you man I'm cuz you should go kind of the fucking rainmaker like I'm not here to not here to play like I love and they kind of more and more Leaned into them here to play part of his character, but once that bell rings I have no doubt about him

3:00:38So yeah, I'd like to see them try it I don't want I don't know if I necessarily need this guy to have the title for like a year straight or whatever But I would like to see them say okay at blank pay-per-view We're gonna build up Ocata versus I mean Ocata versus Osprey at you know the December pay-per-view That sounds fucking awesome. Let's let's let's do that. That sounds great But I don't know if they I don't know if the company wants to do that. I don't know if he wants like I just don't know I want to see it happen before Before we truly reach a point where I can't I think you're still there you can still do it now if you want to if you wait another year or two I don't know that we can we like Everybody thinks the end point of the Osprey title Brain is kind of Fletcher right yes. Yeah Ocata's been building a few to Fletcher two like and Ocata's put over Fletcher like more than anybody in this company. So what if like What if that year go between and then like

3:01:39Fletcher and Osprey is like further down the road What if Ocata's the transition from Osprey to Fletcher And then you can get back to Osprey down the line as the as like chasing again Because I talking through it I think there's a strong chance that Ocata could be the guy who dethrones Osprey I like it. I don't hate it. Yeah, I don't hate it Yeah, I think I know I mind the end point We are really I think he beats shopper here But Be interested in trying something different with Ocata but they For now We're suit hold the title. That's what they got for him On Dreda versus AW national title match on Dreda versus Pock I mean that as far as an in ring bell the bell I mean It'll be sick. That'll be pretty great

3:02:41I mean, when I was pocket I delivered on paper you he's one of those underrated like Great pay-per-view workers in this company Well, I'll tell you when where we're in the building Watching him on the pre show with fucking Kip Sabian Yeah, I guess you found the one Kip Sabian Yeah, I think on Dreda we'll be able to do a little something more interesting here I agree with your point that That's right is a better wrestler than Kip Sabian. It's bold, but I agree suit. I agree I think it's very interesting that a guy has a money in the bank ask title shot And the company isn't booking him into the ground because he'll win the world title Like I think it's I think it's a good idea. I don't know like I might be on an island here. I don't know I think it's a good idea to have like a number one contender Win a lot of matches before each challenges Hold on a minute let me write this down so I can

3:03:42You think it's a good idea to have a man who holds a future title shot and and is potentially a number one contender Win a lot of matches ahead of that title matches. I suppose he'll lose them all Oh All right, well, I get the idea is that oh, he'll just he'll be the world champion, but right you know Having a guy win going into the hat, you know Makes them feel a little more like a world champion Yeah, well very interesting one of those places that one of the places that books like that is a star making machine that has made so many stars recently That suit I don't know. I think you're off the reservation here because uh, I'm not gonna doubt the star making machine that has Yeah, I don't know all the stars All my characters you know them all I'm not on rumble And now from my favorite tag team in a w right now Darby Ellen and Steven Borden versus Kevin Knight Kyle Fletcher. This is interesting here. This is interesting because you There's a lot of momentum like okay of all the guys that I would pin in this match

3:04:47Darby is like the first guy I bring up right like I'm not being Steven right now I'm not pin in Kevin Knight and I'm for sure not pin in Kyle Fletcher because I still think that you need to protect the hell out of Kyle Fletcher So does Darby take the pin here like who takes the pin here? Who wins this match? I have no idea what how to call this one. This is crazy Because here the some forward thinking like TV booking that they did was Both of these teams have pinned as like not pinned but beaten teams in the uh tag title match Because Knight and Fletcher beat the bucks in that table match because they had some interference And then Darby and Steven BFTR and like the eight man on uh Dynamite a couple weeks ago So there is like Directions and then they had Darby and Christian get in each other's face to remind people that they've had issues and then Cop got in their faces this week. It's like They've done a good job of like weaving a lot of things in here to where it could be like

3:05:49I could see any outcome here like it doesn't feel like It doesn't feel like certain outcome which is which I like um gosh and like bucks because I think the bucks are winning The tag title yeah, yeah for sure You could do the flip of Stings retirement match with them versus Darby and Steven. Oh no Don't tell Darby that he's gonna go through the glass again. He's like I got it. They're like Just Darby you don't have to go through the glass again. He's like I do All right fine you want to go through the fucking glass again. Go through the fucking glass again Get argue with Darby, but yeah, that's for Darby's own health. I hope But yeah, they're running that match back at some point for sure Yeah, but then I can this night and flexor team where they're like starting to get along Yeah, but it seems a little like it seems like they're getting along too well, right I think it could be like a hangman Kenny thing where it's like This like it's gonna lead to them fighting for the world title

3:06:51But the tag titles are like a diversion for them and Tony likes to do that with the tag titles where he's like where it's like You know two guys who he's like focused on and then he pushes them as singles like after that Towards like the title we saw it with hangman and Kenny we saw it with who else Like use like the titles like try and push scorpio sky early on You know all the attempts number three of of nine to push That was number one and it was kind of working Yeah, for that time and place look it's point like it was a long time ago But if so like maybe and then it didn't You know, you know swerve in our glory whatever happened the keybly and uh Yeah, I think this could be another one of those with night and flexor and I do think them Them running with the tag titles does feel like That's like an interesting thing to do. Yeah, I think what's good about that was then you can you give them something to do to kind of hide the fact that it's like

3:07:56Godfluch is like undeniable. I was like I can't I can't I can't a world title shadow whatever you know So I think yeah, that it makes sense because I think having names. I think having names very close to flatcher. Oh, I do yeah, I wrote this And it's it's gonna It's gonna kick some horn. It's nests But like those two like together feels a little like Rock and Austin in 97 Where it's like both of these guys are like Set yeah, but it's like who's going to get their first? Who's gonna like peak higher like it feels like Because these are like two like guys that like Any promotion in wrestling history would like kill the have And eight of you've got them both at the same time. Yeah, and they're both like hitting their potential at the same time too, so it just feels It feels very interesting and I think a tag one would be very like

3:08:57Would be good in like weaving their history together Yeah, I that works for me because I think like ultimately in my brain I have either one of these guys whichever one you're gonna do I think how flatcher but if you want to say Kevin Knight, that's fine too But one of those two guys winning the C2 and and kind of going from there So I I think this would be a good way to maybe divert them over the the fall to you know Have osprey do some other stuff and then make it pretty obvious in 2027 that both these guys like you said and that's then They're 1998 of the rock and Austin like that's the okay. You can't keep denying these guys and Maybe they'll take a Maybe it's maybe it's only kind of screw John Moxley and Send them over to do it because you need you need to you know like you got too many men of vendors Gotta get rid of some of them and that makes it a little bit easier when Brad Hartley's and Shawn Michaels get dirt or whatever So I guess you need that but no Yeah, I'm fascinated by this match. I guess I guess there's a way where you could have Night and flatcher lose and then get upset at one another or whatever if you want to start speedrunning that breakup I don't know. This is a fascinating match where I can't really call it. I don't know

3:10:01Yeah, I think it feels early for that because like neither of them have like a bell and like Send in one after Darby feels like going backwards. I think night and flatcher win this We found that and then open challenge persephone TBS title open challenge. I'm of the mindset that this is Danny Luna. Where are you at? There's been whispers because there were whispers of Kyrie as well There was a little martyr shot a action But that is not a bad one. There's no whispers Yeah, there are whispers It feels a little too soon for it to lose the title for Persephone because he just wanted it all in But it's the TBS title it can bounce back and forth and it could be like the start of a feud and give both Both of women something to like sink their teeth into

3:11:03Yeah, I've heard the Kyrie same thing as well. I think Danny Luna would be perfect I think that's the depth that what I'm talking about that you add like a Danny Luna to this roster And it's just immediately it's like oh, yeah, we're adding just another You know because she fits in that The vein of like the Alex Windsor Jamie Hader Even even Lane Across in Megan Bane where it's like this is just an ask a woman like you know I mean, it's not Kyrie saying yeah that it would be good to have like a high flyer at woman Yeah, I don't know if she's quite got it anymore Danny Luna Kyrie works like he's underwater. Yeah, it's very That's over Danny Luna would be my pick and think of what And it was better than anybody else. It's like women's plunder and Danny Luna would like I mean Loves to believe loves to you know do these freaking chain matches and stuff would be she's a perfect fit for this roster And I hope this is her and I hope she you know if she comes in I'd be Persephone because he's like you said it's a TBS title Who cares? It's fine? It can bounce back and yeah Like the TV titles can move around a little more. Yeah, I've no problem with that. I mean you can even speedrun the the Brit Baker

3:12:09Persephone thing because nobody really needs to see that all that much so I guess they're They're facing off in Pittsburgh their team, but you can have like Brent not quite be able to help Persephone He win the match or whatever and cause some tension there or something like that. I don't know you can do whatever But I would have Danny would come in and win because yeah Kyrie is just that's whatever visions that people have of Kyrie saying you haven't watched her I'll tell you that you haven't watched her in 10 years because it's very it's very last decade. Yeah, you're very may young classic That generation yeah, she had that anymore. She is not that. Yeah, so Uh, that is all I got to tell you bro. Oh god, the tailgate bro. What do we have on the tailgate bro? I forget about that Uh, we've got a tailgate brawl. It is the bang bang gang versus the deathwriters and the dogs. Oh I mean, you know what? Don't here's the thing this be done Yes I'm so glad that the dogs are not gonna be on the main show to have a fucking 18-minute stinker in like the

3:13:14You know like three from the top like I'm so put them in the fucking tailgate brawl and just have yeah Whatever fine great put them on the pre show and then jungle jack versus Ketsuori Shabata Actually to cry just saying that like saying those that matchup is just incredible jack Perry versus Ketsuori Shabata You know, I mean like imagine to get like a time machine Like right after his his brain bleeds or whatever and you're like, you know what in 2026 He's gonna be in an American wrestling company Facing the son of Luke Perry On a pre show and you're like what we talking about like weirdo yet Yeah Yeah, he's do the Perry's doing this thing where he's wrestling former chick world champs because he wants to He wants to level up. I don't know how well that's gonna go, but you know He wants some o'joe and they said how about you wrestle him out of How would you wrestle the big mouth loud? How would you start there chief and work your way up?

3:14:15Um, I like that some people thought that they would do Perry versus Joe on this show as like a Shot at CM punk across the bow It's like You know that meme where it's like there's a Japanese soldier still fighting the world war after 29 years. Yeah That's Guys let's move on and like I know punk is and no punks across the street, but like yeah, nobody cares We're good. You know, it would also nobody absolutely not care about that whatsoever Who if you pitch that to him would say that's dumb as fuck I'm not doing that He's like no if you got it when you have a good story call me until that I'm good Like I'm good call me when you got a real story. I'm not doing that Because he doesn't go fuck it. He would find that absolutely stupid That's my favorite story about all of the punk stuff is that Joe saw that happened. It was just like listen bud Get over here You're gonna go on there. We're gonna wrestle our match that we had planned You're gonna play we're gonna do everything exactly how we did you can come back here and do whatever the fuck you want But when you're out there you're gonna be a professional. We're gonna work our match and punk is yes sir

3:15:20Yes, sir, I will do that and it goes out there and they work their match and Joe just goes to the back Goes to his locker room probably doesn't care at all takes the wrist tape off takes the deep doesn't care about anything else going on Doesn't care about the fight. He's just packing his bags like whatever dude. I don't care You know he hears that punk got fired when we did right right? Oh Whatever Yeah, I thought I was working on my yeah, yeah Oh well, no, he did that was Ricky that was Ricky starts Yes, that all out the when they did the pay-per-views, you know back-to-back weekends or whatever Yes, I was in Chicago when uh I was in Chicago for that yo and they They replaced them with Daniel Simmons and then uh him and Ricky's uh Starks for C2 have An incredible strap match. That's one of my favorite matches the watch live. I was watching live with you right you were in the You in the yeah sweet with us one of the greatest live matches I've ever seen just like the slaps The just strap the noise. I mean I it was just like little by little people were like ooh

3:16:24Ah, oh Just every new hit was just like oh Like everybody in the crowd like in unison just like living and dying by this poor Ricky Stark's is getting just a dial in the strap it was Between that and the uh second time I'm bringing them up on the hill Swurve in our glory in a claim match from the brawl outro. Oh, yeah, yeah like Chicago gets a lot of like live Like incredible like live matches. Yeah, but like nobody saw coming Remember we got a final countdown because Danielson like they bought it for Wembley, but Danielson was hurt So it's like well We we got it we know I would like to think that he got it for like 30 days and was like we're just gonna you because I think you You said I'm like a dynamite I think it must have been something where it's like all right you have it for you know 21 days know like all right great danielson you're coming out all the fucking time because we are you getting our money's worth

3:17:26We paid a lot of money for this fucking thing. So you're coming out. Yeah, that was great Well that I forget that that's also another reason why that I adored that match is having the united center You know stopping along to uh to final countdown as danielson comes out was pretty uh pretty special Yeah, yeah being live at a Chicago wrestling show is pretty great and I I'm regretting in some ways that I'm not going to the show it becomes a lot harder now with the baby and doing the interaction lives or whatever And then it sold out so that kind of took it out of me But uh I am I'm getting a lot of FOMO for sure as we are getting closer and closer That's the show but that's where I'm set about that one. Yeah So that is all outs I'll be going live immediately after the show with Warren Hayes We're going to have special guest Uh Warren Hayes of the mr. Warren Hayes show he will be doing the instant reaction live with us all out review show Life Saturday night immediately found the show at flagship patreon.com The $10 tier to unlock the instant reaction live again I'm immediately found the show since I'm not going so I will be able to do it right after the show concludes with myself Uh mr. Warren Hayes I assume suit you'll have a review up at suit Williams.com correct

3:18:29Um, maybe not that night. I like to like I like to kind of like go through like Let it sit in my head. Yeah, well, I don't want to like you're writing that we should note that like if you'll Have never read suits writing like you're not doing like and then this move happened and that move happened like it's it's It's narrative driven you know, and it's it's big pictures narrative driven. It's Yeah, it's less played by playing more like narrative driven So I do like to take my time with that but it'll be like Either Saturday night Sunday morning. It'll be you'll get one within like 12 hours of the heroine day. So suit Williams.com. That's suit Williams.com. All right Real quickly. Let's go over the last two times here a little over time, but that's all right You get you good you get to get another half hour in you yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's run through this Let's do it. So uh world's collide happening across town. Uh the most successful. I keep calling it the most successful lame duck show of all time like WWE does this how show

3:19:30Quote unquote to hurt AW and to hope that oh well, we're gonna run this thing you know across town and then people aren't gonna buy tickets AEW and then they do and a w sells 9000 plus tickets sells out they sell out This show does well too, but they don't really want it like because people are like We're gonna put this on TV right and they're like I mean it was kind of a house show like we have to put it on TV Like what are you talking about? I think it was because they I think the initial setup was like a house show setup Because I think they just literally wanted to take people away from from all out But then all out sold well and now it's just this like lame it's like a lame duck show. It just exists They don't really want it to exist. They didn't really want to do it It was just like we have to do this because we're gonna hurt them and it didn't really hurt them And now it's like okay, I want to fuck we do with this thing and there's like this big question of will this thing stream What beyond YouTube what beyond maybe it'll be on rumble who knows? World's club maybe on club W have you maybe they'll be on club They haven't said anything so who knows I think the latest you sent me was like JBL being like I mean I don't think we're doing it live like no way knows we're we're two days away from the show and nobody fucking knows

3:20:34If you could watch the show live if we're available on demand and for beyond club to be YouTube Netflix rumble who the fuck knows So it's a it's just a show Kind of a house show kind of a lame duck show But it's like they have 12,000 tickets out for this show that It's like but they don't want to put it. It's so weird. It's just such a strange show They they they took yet another attempt at going ahead to head with a w and it did not work They never work and they don't seem to have learned from their lessons. So Well Bradshaw said that there would be commentary voiced over next week So is this a TV taping like is this and that's what some people have theorized that Later there's not a lot that triple A on on You know Fox Latin America it's slash YouTube. They don't have a whole lot for this so they can maybe chop this up for that show but It's got a more stacked card than that But maybe they do segments in between and so because it doesn't feel like it feels like a house showing it I don't know I have no earthly idea what they're gonna do with this thing. It's very strange Well, yeah, I mean to your point

3:21:37They sold 12,000 tickets to this thing, but if that was their goal We'd know where the show was there right like they wanted the show to exist They would tell us it's gonna be on blank we sold 12,000 they don't seem proud of this show at all. They seem like Yeah, fucking worlds collide god damn it. All right. Here you go like it's just you know It just it exists. It's a lame duck show. That's immensely successful Well, I mean They sold a lot of tickets. I don't know about Successful depends on the goal and if the goal was the That's what they eat you It is unsuccessful. It is a successful failure. Yeah, there we go. It was a very successful failure of a lame duck show That doesn't need to exist, but gosh darn it it exists. Uh CM Punk L Grande Americano and Ray Mysterio versus almost Dominic Mysterio and JD McDonough is your name of that

3:22:39When you see him punk working triple A and he is working the judgment day Almost there you go Uh, Penta Ray Phoenix versus uh, Berkto and Daga I can't believe they chose Berkto and Daga over on Helen Berto, but uh, they did so they chose the worst of the team, but um There you go, lucha brothers in Chicago. Yeah Yeah There's that I've always been big druss in Chicago. I'll tell you that Uh JBL's favorite team lost toxicas I'll be facing fell in Henley JC J and Laney Reed of fatal influence lost toxicas fatal influence I'm made of that nanny building in the world except for the LC Joe Holbert will be locked in Uh, Dragon Lee and Jack Carwell that will probably be really cool That will probably be a lot of flippy-dews and a lot of big big spots And that should probably be a lot of fun with a bet the crowd will enjoy that match a lot So they put Dragon Lee in the il you dragon of Carmelo Hayes You'll work hard on TV spot. Yep

3:23:39You look at us a good match right? It's like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so he will There you go. Uh, lock Catalina defending the uh Ray Durena's title against Roxanne Perez Prodigy the prodigy Roxanne Perez He's been a prodigy for like eight years. Yeah, it's been a while. Yeah, she doesn't have it on her tights anymore I don't know if she's but she still calls herself that sometimes so It's not her point anymore. She doesn't come to the ring and point at it and say hey progies does it on my ass So that means on the prodigy, but uh Still at it. Yeah, still working a whip ladder. I won't comment. Yep Uh, AW world cruiserweight title number one contendership fatal four-way axiom e.k. prosper Javon avatar remember Javon Evans and many Viking will do it I saw Javon Evans on an episode of raw the hood and they haven't so gimmicked up Into a degree that no like I'm like this poor man. You got him wearing like a uh uh A six seven shirt. He had like arm bands on it looks like Michael Hayes describing like I saw these like

3:24:39I don't want to say what word Michael Hayes would probably use in private about these guys, but um It's like what Michael Hayes thinks like 19 year old black men wear when they're out like at the high school And he's like, yeah, they have had bands out they got arm man. They got six seven shirts And it's like this poor guy just let Javon Evans wear which Javon Evans is gonna wear Javon Evans is a young man. He could probably figure it out. I'm sure he's a pretty stylish guy Have you looked at what he looks like recently On dollar telemower and it's absurd It's absurd. I saw him wearing that Funko pophead of uh old or devlin Like what have they done to my poor man? He's in these backstands. I mean, it looks ridiculous He's in money in the bank. So they'll uh, like people talk themselves and then Him getting put over there when uh, he's just gonna. He's in the copie spot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, which was the Shelton Benjamin spot And I started to sense a trend here soon. Hold on a minute once that coffee king's been Shelton, but okay, hold on a minute. If look if there was a white guy doing that spot like Evan born was never in enough of these

3:25:45It would have been his spot. Yeah You know You're the guy who does the spots off the ladder. They're right. Yeah Yeah, he's got he has no destined to be royal rumble elimination guy You know, I mean handstands and chairs and that's him forever. He was always gonna be that like that That's his ceiling in this company not because I wanted to be but Like people talking themselves up in the javon being like a Like a top guy like what company you watch? Yeah, he's never wrong Especially at 22. They're not gonna push that guy at 22 Yeah, he was a real prodigy and of course they weren't gonna do that Like I'm not happy about that, but you know Is what it is yeah It's where he works. Yeah, yeah, you could see the ceiling from a from a mile away um, and then we have uh mini abysmo negro and the vanity project a breadbiller Micah Lockwood and Ricky smokes these are all real people

3:26:45versus Adelicious LaParca Masquerida Sagrada and mr. iguana so Remember mr. iguana. I do remember iguana. Yeah, that was a name. I didn't Dan how to eat that guy's lunch. Yep Yeah, Henry like mr. iguana came and then like I'm trying to figure out who what was the lineage was it Henry that then he got eaten alive by mr. iguana who then got eaten alive by Dan Howeson or am I missing It was Henry after mr. iguana. I Think that's the order because Henry was doing like he was in when he was like TNA Then they buy triple A and see mr. iguana and then Dan Howeson's contract comes up and he comes over so yeah who's next you want to let's see fantasy book the next uh What he could be next trying to thank I Think the outrunners got too much time on their deals. Yeah, and that that's not the right gimmick for what they would put over I know like some people mentioned like max caster when he comes do like he's he's good to be like oh yeah

3:27:47The geeky like do geeky wraps or whatever and well they're just gonna do the acclaim began over there. Yeah, for sure And that's gonna get over yeah, that that's the next one the acclaim right because both their deals are up And you can have like a smart guy's they look around they're like Yeah, we're It ain't working separately, so let's wink it up. Let's do it again That's going on it's our me brother. Yeah, yep Also of vanity projects. I watched the uh One of the last NXT heroes these guys are actually like decent. I like I've always been a vanity project guy I saw Brad if you remember I was watching a flagship or we're doing a flagship once I was watching a episode of Beyond wrestling they had their show that was used to be live on Thursday nights and I'm watching bread bailer off the side of my eyes And I'm like that is a dude like man that is a major league guy that you could sign tomorrow To the ID program and he'd be ready to go and then he finishes his match it and then after it

3:28:47They bring him into the ring a guy gets a microphone I'm like what is happening and all of a sudden the anime time you might need contract like no Already I just saw this guy for the first time. What the hell did this already happen? Like were they listening and they're like get out there go go get my ID contract go go go go Because I was like man like no, I think vanny project kind of rocks. Yeah, I'm a big proponent of them. It's it's projectable you can project them Not a they may have any WrestleMania no, but you could project them on the main roster Having jobs for like 15 years. They all got a protein shakes They're a little young at the skinny guy. Yeah, yeah, they're all very young so they haven't quite gotten that yet Maybe they talk to talk to uh mr. Punkin See what's up. Maybe at this maybe this locker room punk in uh Give him his chicken recipe that he's been he's been utilizing lately. So Now that's a locker room leader right there Mm-hmm Have you seen like his head like his head's doing like the kumail not a jianny thing. Yeah, where it's like changing shape

3:29:49That's just chicken brother. I know what you're talking about the berry bonds. Yeah. Oh my god. They're very bond It's not quite the yeah the berry is the one of the most egregious exactly Look you was he was great before that. Yeah, look at that fucking forehead like anybody There used to be like there was a brief period of like I think everyone's now resided that fate or whatever There was a brief period during that time. I you might not have been Uh old enough to know, but there was like legitimately people that were like I don't know I mean he was really good before so it's like look at his fucking head Like that's not what his head looked like before his voice is different and his head is seven times bigger than it used to be What are you talking about look at the bolt on his forehead where did that come from He was a normal looking human being forever now looking up. He's not normal anymore. What are you talking about? Maybe that's why punk's hair looks like that because his head He's hate differently. Yeah, yeah, he's uh it is hair like pomp towards that. I don't like the accusations You're putting up your suits and uh, that's not a bad idea

3:30:52If I were you soon I wouldn't cross that man. It wouldn't be the first one last time Phil's been looking for some suits Oh, you better be careful. That's that is chicken. That is and now maybe that maybe uh, maybe the chicken is genetically modified I don't know if he's getting pure uh chicken, but um It's possibly something to that, but that's as far as I'm gonna go. It's just What's he eating horse and eat like fador and something He's a healthy looking man a lot of effort going on in uh in the the the Brooks household I'll tell you that with them is your punk, but uh there you go. That is uh words collide I think it's really cool that Chicago's got two wrestling shows that I talked about this last week on the flagship It's cool. It's fuck I mean it's very rare that you have two shows in the same city 20 minutes apart from each other Basically that are just you know in the in the main in the same major metro area That are drawing this well on the same night. I mean head to head you got a 12,000 12,000 wrestling fans at one arena and 9,000 plus maybe 10,000 in another arena. That's cool. It's fuck. I mean that that I think that's really cool. So

3:31:57It's great like it's like it's cool for everybody Because it's gonna be like two like very lively shows and then people have been bringing it up on the discord But like the fact that all the WWE fans are like over there Is gonna make the AEW crowd like A little more lively and a lot stronger and you're not gonna have like Like the fed fans are going to be served. They're gonna be over there And the AEW fans are gonna be Served and they're gonna be loud and rowdy and kind of it'll be kind of like uh hey like fuck those guys. We're like This is the show to be at right gonna kind of want to like They're gonna be amped up to like make this show like Feel big and so it'll feel even bigger Yeah, and I feel like that's gonna be felt in the locker room too But particularly the AEW locker room and I would do if I'm Tony I would say you know I'm not doing the Paul Heyman speech in front of everybody, but I would be like like these guys tried to run

3:32:58You know against us and they you know, I couldn't stop us. We sold this we sold this bitch out You know, I mean like so we should be proud of what we've done here and proud of the fact that you know 20,000 wrestling fans in Chicago are coming to watch wrestling, you know and in on the same night in two different places Like it's pretty fucking cool. So yeah, I'm Excited to maybe watch World's Collide whenever it shows up on whatever Means it shows up on all right before we go I we were gonna talk about these cml and 93rd anniversary show if when Joe was gonna Be able to do the show, but of course that could not happen. So I Don't know how much of the cml show you watched. I can run down the show really quickly. I think did you catch the main event I know you said you were gonna try to catch the main event. Did you end up getting there? I Saw the main event I watched a t-ton and commander, okay, and then I watched Soberano and bandito, okay, I wanted to watch um the Andrade Volador match, but I just didn't have the time. Okay. Well, that's actually okay. That gives us a decent

3:33:59I'll just run down the entire show then you can jump in on the matches that you saw because that's actually the You picked a good selection of matches to watch so the opener was horrible Really really bad the women's three-way the most notable thing that happened in this match is Akira Had a little bit of a wardrobe man-funk malfunction like seconds into this match and it was there was a lot out there I'll tell you didn't seem to know how to fix it either Apparently this also happened to her when she was in stardom as well. So hopefully she can figure out how to Get some different gear or something because it seemed to throw her off in this match And it was just no good at all and does not need to be watched at all. So you should probably skip it Blue Panther and Jeff Jarrett now I I don't want to say that I love this match, but god, I love this match Because Jeff came out And did what he would do on a triple mania show now. It's a similar 93rd anniversary show He shouldn't do what he does on triple mania, but he did so he came out my world blaring on the screens in arena, Mexico Jaw jack with the Mexican fans

3:34:59Talking about how Mexico stinks like just classic, you know, babies first heel shit out of Jeff Jarrett Working like a total rudo the entire time and guess what this crowd was fucking living and dying by blue Panther And they were going nuts for blue Panther to beat this fucker This fucking American asshole Jeff Jarrett and then he did and the crowd went nuts and they loved it So it was just classic pro wrestling was it good? It wasn't that good, but was it fun? It was absolutely fun It was a blast. It was exactly what you think blue Panther Jeff Jarrett would be So was it traditional lucha Libre? No, was it fun? Yes, I enjoyed it as much as I hate to admit it, but That doesn't surprise me at all just like that Like I understand why every like why the like Why like CML like Pure fans would be like very annoyed by it of course, yeah, and they are justified in that But I wouldn't like I had no like Doubt that Jarrett would like get the heat and on the night against like against old like blue Panther

3:36:07Who's out there like you're happy to see blue Panther and then he's up against this asshole like yeah like Of course, that'll work to a certain extent, you know, of course Yeah, just class is like pro wrestling 101 like Jarrett came out. He was a total asshole Blue Panther came out. He's a he's a hero and then Jarrett's like stewging all the time or whatever and yeah It was like crowd was molten hot cheering for blue Panther and booing the fuck out of Jeff Jarrett and then blue Panther beat Jeff Jarrett Maybe one thing of Jarrett won you know with a roll-up and he grabbed the tights or whatever one My world my world like that would suck. Yes, I agree But he didn't he'd stooge and then blue Panther beat him and then the crowd went nuts and it's like all right no harm No foul, you know, that's fine. So um God that song just blaring in arena, Mexico Just like immediately the fans are like, oh, what is this like What is this asshole doing here that worked? CML World Tag Team title fatal four-way. Oh, it's got it called it a fatal four-way match It may as well then a four-way match the chavez brothers Vianos Sky team and Hermanos Kavallera uh eight minutes

3:37:07They it was clunky and weird and they did a bunch of brawling outside and on the ramp This is it wasn't good. They had eight minutes to shove in all this stuff that they wanted to do and they tried to do a four-way Match and these A lot of these CMO guys aren't good at doing these multi-person matches But they must do them because that's what American wrestling promotions do and this was a big miss and the chavez brothers win And you are better off just never watching it. So Now we go to t-time commander which was worth your time CMO World Walter Waite title match a t-time versus commander These guys had a 20-minute match in mind. They told them they had 11 and they said yeah We're just gonna do that match in 11 minutes then because they just did everything that did every move you can ever do in 11 minutes And uh, yeah, I mean what more would you want out of a t-time commander match than what you got here Yeah, these are two of my guys Commander's gotten good enough We're starting to get annoyed that he never wins anything It's like he's like really improved a lot like his like his big spots hit really big and he's hitting them clean

3:38:09Like yeah, we're well-passed like the commander can't hit spots clean thing that was prevalent like a year ago Like he hits him every single time now. So it's like all right. Maybe we're ready to mature on the booking with him and start Kind of maybe giving him some of something to sink his teeth into Yeah, beat him like a drum anyway, but the ring of honor title like yeah, it's you know But yeah t-tons like t-tons like one of my favorites ever since that a super junior run with t-tons versus master Watto is like We're gonna look back on And then be like man that was a weird ass super junior file, but it rot But yeah, uh fun sprint here with commander I went three and a half on it. I know you enjoy of elevated paths and need to put the last risk that the idea He's people just can't be normal about him. So that's kind of another reason too. It's like Well, people start arguing about like the big reason why is like if you're like I like four stars like I

3:39:11Not four and a half I think it's a four and a half and it's who cares? Who cares? It's like whatever, you know Look, I did a lot of writing to get to those like you want me to explain my rating There's like 200 words above it. Yes Yes, yeah as long as like yeah if if people are willing and able to like read or listen about your ratings And not just get mad about the rate because that's why like every At what I hate Fridays Because you get the like the aggregation of like here's a dirty pay-per-view and here's the rundown of all of Dave's ratings And then it's just a day and two days and three days of people arguing that's like who fucking cares? God It's just so much like the I thought that was friar tapestore and call it a day right right Just let's let's let's move on now. I there's certain Dave ratings recently that I've gotten me a little upset But um it is what it's like the idea of just like spending every waking moment like waiting for Friday to be like I can't wait to see what he writes it wait that's wrong. No, what are you rated that way for it? Just like it's crazy, but uh Now we move on to

3:40:14Yes, I did okay this match fucking rock this is my match of the night By far hate and heat in this one man They they the bell rang the crowd was hot and then they just started kicking the shadow of each other and ripping each other's masks And I was in and they kept the same energy the entire 12 minutes. I mean this was a Brutal in the best way match like brutal in a positive way complimentary and brutal complimentary Because you're thinking oh subarano and bandito it'll be a lot of like you know that no teetan and commander was your gaga high flyer match This was hating heat now they were there they did a little bit of flying of course But this was two guys just they don't fucking like each other and they're just going to add it and fucking beat in the show of each other Man, this was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed subarano bandito Yeah, the student like um if you read the uh Cubs fan preview Soberano had been calling bandito like in interloper and like a traitor to CMLL So you know griffin pelte was shouting like you tell him so Brother you get that guy out of here

3:41:16But but yeah, they hate like it this was just heated and violent and angry like this was good energy like he tore like soberano tore bandito's mask Bandito tore soberano's mask so much that he needed another one back on the mask. Yeah, I was loved that when it slide the backup mask in And then he wore the original one like like a hood around his neck That was cool that look cool and it's like these two worked this like it was a main event. Yeah, it was This was only 12 and a half minutes, but it felt like a A satisfying big-time match and then that finish with soberano just drop in bandito on the top buckle with that driver Oh, yeah, I was like he'll again Just like man awesome awesome match. I was Four and a quarter on it. Why'd you hate it? I went four and a half not Just excellent stuff. Yeah, this is like must be watched. Yeah

3:42:17Have a bigger these two have a bigger one in them. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure Like you said it was worth like a main event like you could have had this match have an extra six minutes or whatever And put it in the main event. It would have been perfectly fine would have fit in perfectly Uh for that right but we did here would have been great in the main event. Yeah. Oh, yeah You don't have to add much time. You could just yeah have this match It's it with all this hate and all this and they and they got right down to it too It was no feeling. I'll process in this match. It was like get in here motherfucker. I got something to say to you And then they just yeah, be sure they're different masks. I mean it's classic Good old lucha bra where you rip a mask. I mean it never gets old. It'll always work and a crowd was into that too, which is really cool Oh the CMLO world women's four-way match Persephone Minasher Akawa star like head and Tessa blanchored you are so lucky you did not watch this match The first like five or six minutes. I was like this is actually pretty okay Like they try to do some creative moves. They try to you know in they get everybody involved and and and do like We don't want to have the thing where two people squit like We you know, we send two people out of the ring and and and the it just becomes a singles match for like five minutes

3:43:22Like the classic WWE faked all four-way style match where that happens They didn't do that for like the first five minutes and then they did and then they were like all right Actually, we got to do that now so then like you know Persephone and Tessa blanchored would stare at each other and the mean of sheer Akawa would stare off with Tessa blanchored And then it just is like oh, it's just never ending and then the finish was absolutely preposterous have you did you see this finish? I read about it ridiculous Tessa blanchored and Persephone are squaring off now Tessa blanchored had brought totally came to the ring with Tessa So everybody assumed that since Holy was gonna be the test was gonna win so How over was Tully in or Unfortunately as sad as that one Yeah, oh for sure for sure, but Persephone gets in the ring she's got the title She Throws it to test a blanchor she does the eddie Guerrero thing That you've seen a thousand times where Tessa's holding the title Persephone is on the ground what she was a really crisp worker who uh, you know Got flanderized like three spots. Yeah exactly. How sad is that that the Guerrero's entire career is

3:44:28Taking the boot off giving someone the title and falling down and the three amigos and the frocks blash I guess he's got four things. You can watch any other eddie Guerrero Yeah, I've done it dying for you to watch editing, but No way out if there's one thing That disappears on the flagship leaves watch more eddie Guerrero Yes, a phenomenal worker that did a lot of really great things more so in those four things that are repeated in every single match to the chance of Anyway, Persephone does that she throws the title to test so she falls down The referee turns around Persephone's got the title or our test has got the title Persephone is on the ground And usually this works with like you know, Tessa being like no, no, I didn't do that in the referee being like get your ass off That's that you know no the referee turns around and goes okay ding ding ding ding ding ding ding which is like I guess Not perfectly little hole in a four way. I guess there's DQ's There you go. How about that so

3:45:29I guess but The crowd did not like that That does not sound like a finish that a lucha crowd would Even like understand like because like Eddie did that on WWE team correct Yeah, he did on Smackdown like you know episodes of Smackdown in 2005 doesn't for whatever yeah, not not Yeah, doesn't for it didn't do too many Smackdowns in 2005 unfortunately, but um yeah, that's Like August of 10th. Yeah, I got okay. I guess you had a couple months of But yeah terrible match no good and a finish that the entire crowd was just like it wasn't like booze like Oh, we're booing Persephone because she's the heel. It was like get this shit out of here get out of our ring go away Like kind of that reaction. So not great not great. That sounds bad was not very good On draw to invulner now you watch this this was a little bit of a turn back the clock moment for VoloDor because I thought he works as Assof here and he doesn't you know I always get full effort out of all of you. You got it here

3:46:31I wanted to why all that's right. Yeah, you didn't get this one. Yeah, it was actually pretty good for for a VoloDor junior match in 2026 was pretty good on dry day He resisted the temptation that I was worried he was gonna do this was more I'm working in arena, Mexico. I'm working in CMLL. I can I don't have to do the How you I don't have to do the selfie and the how you know and all the tropes or whatever I can just be the worker that these people know I am and he was and it was really good actually So they ended up having a pretty fun match VoloDor is not that good anymore, but he definitely turned back the clock a little bit here on dry day gets the win But yeah, it ended up being a lot of fun. I actually really enjoyed it. They had 18 minutes and 50 seconds There's probably more than they needed Of it they used it pretty effectively and yeah, I'd if you're going through this man I would definitely recommend this match as well. I'd recommend Teton and Commander I'd recommend Silverado and Bandito and I would recommend Andrade versus VoloDor as well. So How was how was Andrade back in uh pretty over? Yeah, he was still pretty over and there was a lot of like references to like You know, LaSombra and his old fudes with VoloDor like he did that he played to that crowd

3:47:31He didn't do the I'm gonna be an A.W. Character in CMLL, which would I was worried about He was like no you guys know who I am and it's just you know Cheeky at times, but but was more of himself in as opposed to you know The A.W. Character that he plays on on TV every week. So he knows like he knows like what's he he's smart to know like What crowd he's playing. Yeah Like he found his he he got he's so smart guy. He knows what works in front of American audiences And he knows what works in front of these audiences. So Yeah What did not work in front of this audience was a Hedgesero Claudio and Zach Saber Jr. for the CML world title three way match They tried to do a very grapple heavy now this I'll give them credit. They were like We're not gonna do the WWE style match We're not gonna do Claudio and Hedgesero, you know grab Zax Saber Jr.'s head and toss him out of the ring Go, all right, you and me let's go then they wrestle for eight minutes and then Claudio, you know Zach tosses Claudio out and he goes, no you and me like they didn't do that But instead they decided to just like grapple around while also like another guy was kind of standing

3:48:33Well two guys were grappling and occasionally the third guy would kind of grab a headlock and grab like a leg And it was just very clunky the crowd didn't really care and Yeah, just no good. I was pretty disappointed by this match. I had high hopes for These three guys these are sir, but here's the thing Any any combination of these guys in a singles match is gonna be better than the three way and we saw that play out exactly here So very disappointing I match but well, I cannot recommend that one cannot recommend that at all I know we had the elimination four way match here So this is the gimmick where you are teaming with your mortal enemy and you want to win the match Because you want to go to the main event and you want to either take your mortal enemies mask or his hair So that's the gimmick here. I love it classic just Because like it's the main event of the anniversary kill that's an honor. Yeah, it's not going to the biggest loser of a match It's going to the winner of them right in America would be the opposite in America be like oh no

3:49:33Someone's gonna lose their mask her hair and in here. It's like yeah, not me. I'm not losing that match That guy's losing that match or whatever like that's great That's a great gimmick and it works that perfectly The match itself did you watch did you watch the four way or just the just the main event? I watched the whole thing. Okay The four way was just okay They kind of they really quickly got like dragon rojo out of there. They're like don't worry about it It's not gonna be dragon rojo and Kevin are you don't worry. We're gonna we're gonna move right past those guys Uh, he did get the dive in yep. Yep. Yep. He did get the dive in Are they really quickly eliminated everybody until basically it was obvious to the crowd? Okay, you're gonna get a vernal and mystical in the main event Don't worry. We're that's what we're gonna do. So I didn't think much of the four way. Did you have any strong thoughts on the four way? Good action. There wasn't any like can they coexist like everybody was working together to get their main event So yeah, that's another important distinction too if this happened in America would be like a vernal and mystical would like

3:50:33Try to do a move together and then look at each other and shove each other. There's none of that. It's like no For the next 10 minutes We're the best of friends, but then after that. Fuck you You know, and that's I just love I adore that it it it it treats these people like this is how like real Elogical human beings would act, you know You know, you see what I'm saying like this is a circus. These are professional wrestlers They're not logical normal human beings. They're fucking idiots. They're morons. They're weirdos. They're crazy They're they're maniacs. So that's what would happen. They would say you know what no here. I don't like you You don't like me for the next 15 minutes We got to work together because then you and I can kill each other In the main event of arena mexico at the anniversary show That's how a rational wrestlers should act, you know, not like You're not doing what I told you to do. I don't like you anymore, you know They're like in and pushing and shoving or whatever. No none of that Yeah, I like these steps that aren't like plunder based You know, I like I personally wanted American wrestling to steal from luchin piro

3:51:36And unfortunately, it's been the other way around So like I want more like captains fall and elimination and three ball matches like but I will I will Maybe next billionaire maybe the next billionaire loves wrestling will do it so Anyway, uh, the main event Masters hair mystical versus a verano the match that they probably had to do I mean there was a couple other scenarios that you could play out here But it pretty much had to be mystic on a verano And they went out there a big time 18-minute match now the problem with this match was They had the idea of we're gonna have mystico as the the big time day phase in a verano as the big time heel This anniversary crowd was not playing along with that at all. They were like Fuck that the mystical work because it's a little more smarty crowd So they're like now so they didn't they did not they didn't give mystico anything. They booed him They cheered a verano Mystico played it up a little bit. He like you know hump. He gave like the hump gesture to the crowd like fuck you type of thing But the problem was the match structure was all like

3:52:39Mystico as a baby phase like he got hurt and they brought the the ringside doctors out and he has to say no No, no, I'm going back in there whatever But the reaction to that was So it's like it didn't like that style of match didn't quite work This is a match that if you listen to it with the sound off you would probably think it's a little bit better than it was with the sound on Now I still enjoyed it. It's just like it was really hard because they were really trying to build up to like Big-time heel spots by a verano and big-time baby-face spots by Mystico But the crowd just cheered every heel spot and booed every baby-face spots It was a little crowd Bizarre world vincex man would have called this a bizarre world crowd But it ended up being a lot of fun when it was all said and done But probably not the the reaction that they necessarily wanted in this and they didn't I will say the wrestlers didn't seem to like Realize or they didn't know how to deviate from that and say all right look Maybe we should change up this match a little bit there We're just gonna do the match that they had ready to go crowd be damned so it was a little clunky from that standpoint, but I thought it was a lot of fun though Yeah, I enjoyed it uh Mystico wins a lot, I guess yeah

3:53:43But um, yeah, I thought they uh plan I thought there was like a good like I'm not aging thing Well like sequencing because a verano got the last elimination in the Tag portion of the match with the uh But the angels wings And then he got a big near fall hitting the angels wings off the ropes. Yes Semistico for a big near fall. So I thought that was like a good uh Good like set up and then after that mystico got the mystica the boobbirds were out The rest just took a bump for no reason I guess to like sell the tap Like oh my god, he got them. I can't believe it. Mystico is not gonna lose his mask Yeah, and I think that's a part of the crowd was just like we know I mean come on We know at in 18 minutes This guy is gonna hit this fucking submission. It's he's gonna win this match So let's just have a little bit of fun Uh, and cheer on a verano and maybe maybe uh Maybe the similar offices maybe backstage. They're gonna get in the headset and go

3:54:44You know what actually fuck that mystico you're losing your mask buddy, but I of course not gonna happen So uh, mystico gets the win and and yeah, you do the headshave afterwards a verano he looks good bald looks like a good sh He looks like even more of a shitbag Balled so that'll work well for him for a while and uh, yeah, it was it was a lot of fun You know what I'll say more than I need to guess was there were your dynamics And then he did yeah, right right he did the I got his heat back right away because he did Yeah, I forgot after the match Mystico and absolutely fucking geek is like a verano's like come on raise my hand You know, I'll raise your hand and and mr. Goes like that seems that seems like something that I'll have in my mortal enemy Well, what you do yeah, we're raising hands were gentlemen out here right and then uh, it didn't work very well Verano said fuck you beat him up stole his mask and uh This feud must continue suit Yeah No, I think it's the last we're gonna see of uh mystico in a verano, but uh, yeah, it was uh, it was a lot of fun I mean the crowd was hot for it. It didn't match like this whole show didn't quite match last year was awesome last year because he had the MJF and mystical match, which is like one of the most perfect wrestling matches of all time

3:55:47Just nailed the dynamic of of great pro wrestling and the in the in the simplicity of pro wrestling in the best way possible Is gonna be a tough act to follow here and I was a lot of fun, but yeah, I don't know the show itself I really can recommend tea time commander. I can recommend soberano and bandito. I can recommend and on drata and voldor And of course, I can recommend the main event cuz it's the big it's the main event to Hair versus mask match and Main event of an anniversary show you gotta watch that, but uh, yeah, ultimately I think it was it's just an okay show Just an okay show overall, but um, yeah a breezy watch nonetheless Yeah, yeah if you can If you're short on time soberano and bandito in the main event um if you can I would I would recommend from what you know I would recommend tea time and commander as well Yeah, yeah, a soberano and bandito probably has to be a must-watch I'd probably upgrade that to like must-watch like You want to skip them in event you can but I would not skip soberano and bandito. I don't under any circumstances

3:56:48You should watch that match for sure, so Uh, there you go. That is the cml 93rd anniversary show and that has been in your four-hour flagship suit You have anything else to say before we get out of here No, okay. Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. Sorry to keep you up late Uh But uh really do appreciate it. It's a flagship Right right suit Williams.com by the way suit Williams.com look for the bound for glory review coming your way in whatever amount of weeks it is that bound for glory is gonna come I think it's two three weeks I don't know what it is, but uh I was not going to do great work there, so uh many people need to uh to read it and follow you on At suit Williams and all the various socials on the twitters on the blue skies So Williams.com, but uh, yeah, make sure you support good wrestling writing. There's not a lot of good wrestling writing out there But you're doing tremendous work there at suit Williams.com, so Thank you suit Williams uh on all relevant social media, so not mastered on Are you on rumble? Whatever

3:57:49Not rumble not on rumble whatever uh Whatever other splinter twitters popped up when uh everybody was leaving. Yeah, the reds are you on threads? There might be a suit Williams Remember like everybody had to get one to like keep you in Instagram. Yes. Yes. I think I have You probably do yeah everyone's got a thread. Yeah, it reminded me of uh I don't know how old you were when Google Plus got released. Do you remember Google Plus? Uh yeah I remember and it's like everybody had a Gmail. They're like well you have to go to Google Plus now And then they're like eight trillion people have signed up for Google Plus and it's like yeah, but nobody is using Google Plus It's like you just made everybody with the Gmail get a Google Plus nobody wants this thing And then you to album that was on everybody's on Yeah, yeah, stop. I mean, I didn't have a knife phone, so I wasn't you know, I wasn't subjected to that but What a time that was great because it was a collective like no matter what splinted us Whatever splinter we have you know politically socially what a demographic we whatever

3:58:52Fucking nobody wanted you to's album to be planned on iPhone even if you're a YouTube fan you're like all right Let me download that out don't just put it on my iPhone like what are you doing? Like that was an envy like everybody decided It was so good everyone's like no no stop especially that group too It's like now fuck those guys, we're not don't even Stop, please don't put that on our phone nobody wants this so that that was great. I was to watch everybody unify as one um Certain times in history 9-11 you know world war two You two The world collectively decided you know what no hold on a minute hold on a fucking minute here But suit great great work as always also on voices resting that project 434 what's the next one of those coming out Well, I After the last one I kind of took a break because I don't know if you remember rich 2012 WWE is ass. I remember well We were covering we were covering that shit live on the show

3:59:53I mean some of the early days of the show people wonder when we got like our narrative of like hating WWE It's watching 2012 WWE. I mean it's horrible So I was gonna say if you've learned anything but would you've learned as 2012? WWE is the shits So much So much People power and all this bullshit get the fuck out of here the next ones raw 1000. I'll get on that That's fucking ass too I gotta get back onto the 97 project too. I'm almost done with the next one the as good as it gets Cuz I got the g1 final. There's a hogan and luger I'm uh all that's in the next uh The next volume of that at two Williams.com too So I'm gonna put that out then I'm gonna do the project 434 then I'll show on cedar or review from my 50,000 view So I didn't forget about that. I just been busy. So Yeah, I'm reviewing um the tna race car gimmick. Oh nice. Yeah of course of course

4:01:02And that one so That I'm sure he wrote like a very nice like and you're like ah the tna race car gimmick thing I don't know I'm sure he wrote a very detail. I'd like to you to review the dada dada you're like yeah race car gimmick all wheels all wheels wrestling right That's it. Yeah, it's an hour like I had some people suggesting like A full king of trios. Yeah, it's a come on man. I'm not I'm not watching heroes are wrestling I was gonna do again. I was gonna do I was like surprised gimmick Where I reviewed all of them But there was like some stuff like John Carroll suggested to me like that FIP everything burn show That like famous one and like the like grasshouse Like all the john's friends and like Darby Allen. Yeah, yeah, I can't find that show anywhere And I'm not buying it off like Well, I'm not buying it from ww. Yeah, don't even lie probably right. I can get it from

4:02:04Is that site still can you buy it? I'm ww and live.com or is that site also succumb to the power bump pizza? Uh issue. Oh, it has yeah, W. Yeah, you it's still alive you can oh there it is loaded, but I I was hoping for like an easier way to do it. I'm not we like three weeks for sal to send me that DVD so I'm just still up still updated, but it looks exactly the same that it looks in 2008. I love it It's so good It's got like gifts and shit. Oh, this is so good. The whole thing. Yeah, they probably still run the uh paid the DVD sale Oh, yeah, for sure I was gonna say sell stills me money, but I think he's you know, I think he eventually paid me so we're good That's good I think you did I don't know one day randomly like seven years after uh, double in life stop doing uh, I just got a random like $400 deposit from some random company out of Florida in my checking account. I was like what the fuck is this?

4:03:09Had to be don't ask questions. No, I just said you know what? I mess it just to Joe Joe's like $400 and $400 just put it in the pocket move on. I'm like all right sure whatever You know like what is this thing should I contact the number? I'm like nah they gave me $400 they gave me $400 so I'm just gonna move on with my life. So Ah, thank you sell. I think I don't know. Uh, anyway, so Williams.com at St. Williams and all the relevant social media's uh suit. Thank you so much for coming on the flagship helping us talk All these great topics here today. I believe Joe will be back next week But uh, we'll obviously see what happens and obviously our sympathies are with him on thoughts Go to him as well as he deals with the the death in the family. So uh He will not be around for the Instagram live on Saturday as well So that'd be myself and Warren Hayes on the $10 tier Uh, flagship patreon.com so make sure you sign up there so you don't miss a minute of that show and then uh We'll play it by your I don't know what's gonna happen next week. I don't feel be back I don't know if he'll be in the right mood or whatever, but we'll see Uh, either way that has been the flagship podcast. Thank you as always to uh Jesse Collins as well. gentleman's wrestling podcasts are coming on the first part of the show

4:04:10And thank you so much suit. Jesse Collins has been freed from I know he is waking up in a few hours I am too and he might be as well, but anyway, that is suit Williams That has been the flagship podcast. Thank you so much for listening take care. Bye Hi, I'm K slow co-host of the Open the Voice Gate podcast the one question I'm constantly asked when it comes to drag gate is how do I get into the promotion We'll stop asking and start listening to the Open the Voice Gate podcast released every Wednesday On the voices of wrestling podcasting network for exclusive news and show reviews look no further than the leader and drag gate coverage Open the voice gate Sensational news in the heart of South Coast Skyline OC orange counties tallest residents Is now selling from the 600s to 3 million Experience sun-filled modern residences with stunning views Resort inspired amenities and a prestigious address celebrating the quintessential OC lifestyle Unlock priority access to new condo inventory and limited time buyer incentives

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