The Color of Money with Chris Ryan

0:00I'm Jack with Britain and David. I'm Jack with Britain and David. Don't know what to say or to express. All you need to know is that the aim of the show is by Jack. You gotta have two things to podcast. You gotta have brains and you gotta have balls. And you got too much of one and not enough of the other. It's hard to do old Newman. It's hard to do. It's a very distinct voice. Yeah, good. Yeah, he's got that, you know, how do you do that? Come on. Because it does feel like the second he, he obviously was a man who went gray early. But there was the moment where the switch flipped and he was like, I'm elder statesman now. And he added some sort of patrician kind of affect his voice. But when it, when does old Newman begin? Is it which castes? Is it the sting? No, I'm saying later. Vertix thing. He's playing mentor.

1:01Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's what it begins. But then he's still kind of badass. I'm like, is it verdict? Is it verdict? He's old. Yes, that's for sure. No, but like abs and some malice, he's the same vibe, right? He's like that. But you know what I'm saying? The voice changes. He becomes Doc Hudson. It gets a little gravely. It gets a little, there's a little cigar. You know, vote about like slap shot. He's like, I guess you know what? He's a man who aged perfectly. He'd like every single decade. He wasn't the Tom Cruise thing of like, I'm fucking clinging on, clinging on. Yeah. And then by collateral, he's like, what if I show you a glimpse and then I'll pull that? Okay. Here's a question that I'm certain our guest can answer. And I think you can answer as well, David. I have never seen Ford Apache, Apache the Bronx absence of malice feels to me like the earliest I can identify. He is playing old man. I mean, what is the voice like? In Ford Apache. I don't remember the voice, but he's definitely like in a veteran in that like right? Like he's like the old fucking drunk at the office.

2:03Right. I mean, that precinct. Uh, and then they're going to have to shoot a bunch of I think that there's also like a, uh, a relationship to how much a character drinks in the movie that he takes the voice. Right. Like how, how gravely does he want to go? Because he, well like quintet. What's he like in that? I just never been cold. Yeah. It's a cold ass movie. I think it's a nice thing. I think it's the second hand. He enters the 80s. And as you said, he aged perfectly. And I, I think one of the things that people study about Paul Newman is how distinct his eras were without bumps where he kept adjusting to the time and, and identifying correctly, what is the best movie star I could be right now? How do I fit the culture? I think this is only our second Paul Newman film. After HUD, after the HUD sucker, brock, which HUD sucker. He's obviously doing full on old man, but also full on evil. He's playing sort of the comedic, the comedically heightened version of this guy. What's your favorite newsman? This person. Is it this? Well, I would probably say it's this or slap shot.

3:07Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, that's a really hard question because the second you asked that five movies jumped into the front of my mind. It's not 10, yeah. But it's this slap shot verdict. I, I, verdict I think is his best performance. I agree. Uh, it's the one he should have won the Oscar for, right? Not to be rude to today's film, but that's, that's who beats an ayer. Ben Kingsley. Yeah. We always come up against this. Yes. It's like, it's, it's just a lot of those Newman losses. Yeah. You're like, well, how did he lose? And then you're like, Oh, that, I guess that was a big one. We've covered a couple of these films where you go, I don't understand how it's possible Nick Nolte didn't win best actor for Prince of Tides. Oh, it was the silence of the Lamps year. Is really how like the most historic buzz saw is the only thing that could have beaten this performance? How did he lose for a HUD? He lost his Sydney, Boate. That's dark. How did he lose for cool hand Luke, which he may be like, you know, maybe that's it. He loses to Rod Steiger for in the heat of the night. Steiger's a legend. That would be what's better.

4:08Major, major film. Yeah. The major film. Yeah. But it's also like he's also up against Warren Beatty for Bonnie and Clyde and Dustin Hoffman for the graduate. So it's like there's three young stars, all in kind of the most iconic role. Yeah. But then it's interesting because he's and so the Oscars are just like Steiger. He's the older guy. You say young star, but there's like a big difference. He's older. He's older. And Beatty and Hoffman are breaking through at a whole new level. That's Newman identifying his second phase arguably. That's the whole thing is like he was the one guy who really successfully without a hitch made the transition from being a studio system star to a new Hollywood star by seeming like the cool slightly older guy who gets it. The way that he kind of treats age in a lot of his movies from like the late 60s on or early 70s on is always really interesting to me because I think in slap shot, he's supposed

5:08to be playing somebody who's like 41. Right. Who's at the absolute end of the line like as a hockey player. But is like he looks like he's 60 and then in color of money, I think he's supposed to be in his 60s, but looks kind of like a guy who could be like 45 times, you know, like the way he dresses the way he moves. And he obviously remained unbelievably handsome until his dying day. But there's a lot of power in the fact that he didn't fight it, right? That he didn't try to look younger. That he wasn't worried about seeming cool or hot. I think this is part of what made him survive was that it was like he could always play. Oh, it's surprising how much this guy is still kind of got it versus being like he's trying to act a little more. He's got it than he is. Yeah. Like all those movies that like he kind of kept his career with, I felt like he was incredibly comfortable in his own skin. He may not have been. But like when he's making like what nobody's fool and stuff like that, you're like,

6:11of course. Like I mean, it was that like metallic sheen felt so natural on him. Doc Hudson, that grill. He's right with such comfort and grace. I've never seen any cars. Well, he's the local judge of a town. He's also a car. He used to be a race car. He was the fabulous Hudson Hornet and unfortunately he made a mistake. He turned to hard. David, how did he stop this? I don't know. I'd love it to stop. Is that what it is? He turned to hard to see him. It was like he basically was, he invented drifting is kind of the tragic backstory of cars. Is he really? Yeah. Kind of like American drifting, not Tokyo drifting. Correct. Have you seen cars? I have. So it's like lightning McQueen. Lightning McQueen's like, I want to be the piston cup champion or whatever. And he's like, well, I was that and he's like, fuck you. No, you worry. He's like, I've got the trophies right here, bitch. And then he's got all these like 50s trophies. This is Doc Hollywood basically beat for beat. But the reveal is that the grumpy old man in town who's like, I force you to community

7:15service is like, actually, I used to be the best racer in the world. And then he sees him out in the desert, just fucking drifting. Right. And Owen Wilson's like, what? You're going to do that. I can't believe that. Well, and he's like, there was a fault in my tires. You know, I auditioned for nobody's fool, right? You've told the story many times. Did you really? You're only auditioned, right? I think so. Audition is too strong, but like they came to my school. You also forgot you auditioned for Elizabeth's lander. And I pierced my door. And no, for Fincher. Yeah. And Fincher was like, Rooney already did that. Yeah. I'm not impressed. But people forget just how wide that casting net was. No, nobody's fool was when you were still living in New York, right? Yeah. Cause that movie came out in 94. They came to PS87 and they just talked to a bunch of kids. I mean, I assume they were just, you know, casting a net for it. I don't even know what the kid who the kid is. Sometimes I push back and I acknowledge the privilege I have experienced in my life.

8:16But sometimes I push back on what I feel like from our listeners is an attitude of everything in New York is like dainty, little privilege bubble shit. And then I consider the fact that basically if you are a child in any school in New York City, at some point you probably get lassoed into an audition. I mean, it was just a public school. But yeah, I mean, I do think. I mean, like movies that would film in like the tri-state area, maybe it happens less now in the era of fucking self tapes and zooms and whatever. But I would say like through the 2000s, there was a kind of like New York city if they're looking for a kid and the directors like, we want someone who's not polished. Right. They would just like put up flyers at every single school. Yeah. They were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were shooting that stuff around here too. Like they, they shot like basketball diaries. I can't remember if it was at my wife's school or if it was at the like adjacent boy's school. They were, they were just Hollywood East. They were just letting a rip. The role went to Alexander Goodwin who then appeared in box of moon light and mimic.

9:18That could have been you. Could have been me. That was about it. Yeah. And you should watch cars. Okay. No. Should I like now and then we'll come back? Yeah. Yeah. Well, what is that? 85 minute movie. I mean, you know, it's long. Oh, God, it's almost two hours long. That movie is so bad. It's really bad. It's like indefensible. Well, but here's the thing. Cars two is so much worse. And then cars three isn't great, but it's so much of a rebound that I would argue that cars two makes cars three look like cars one. Do you come out of cars thinking car excellence is not about excellent driving? I mean, that, that is what the movie's about. Okay. You mean kind of the, the F one argument of like, what's the driver really doing here? Well, more just like you have to be a study of human moves, you know? That is what you know, I only seen F one one. And I didn't realize that it wasn't picking up what you were putting down. I'll say it's even more. It's a, it's about, it's about the driver. It's about the heart of the driver.

10:19It's about the character of the driver. This movie has good dialogue. Yeah. And it's movie. Yeah. Yes. And I would say the lesson of cars and the lesson of the color of money is, it's in a way that you use it. I, which to be clear is not actually a light of dialogue in the script. No, but it would be cool. It would be funny if there's just like, I got any advice and we would, one day if I curate, you know, rep screenings or whatever it, my local theater that I own in this paradise world, I imagine right where I'm like, God, David's, you know, this would be part of a series that I would like to think about of like movies where you want to live the objectively, like stressful low life of the people involved. Like you watch it and you're like, what's cooler than being a pool hustler who lives at bars? And it's like, excuse me. That's, that's not a good life.

11:19You don't want to know. No, I think I want it. I think I want to hang out with these guys all the time. I was rewatching the hustler the other night and texting you guys about it. And I said, this is just the best life possible, right? You got a perfect face and you're a piece of shit. It's your life sucks. I think that the festival could be like, I want to live inside of this. Yes. And a lot of it is, that's the key. It's like, you're watching movie stars play this. You're watching people with supernatural charisma and incredible good looks. Live through objectively the drags. Yeah, they're exchanging 20s. Like it's just like guys smoking maybe like you owe me 20. Now you owe me 40. The hustlers also a tragedy. Like I forgot how much that movie is straight up bummer. A tragedy. It's a guy whose life is broken and in trying to sort of solve himself, he experiences greater tragedy. But right. And that's all the backstory for this movie, which is so interesting that he doesn't give the big monologue,

12:20explaining what happened in the first film. Get out of the hustler. I need a lot of glory to it. Yeah. If Piper Laurie shows up in your movie, nothing goods happening. It would be funny if they did like one legacy cool. Like your next opponent is Minnesota fat. Yeah. And then you like, you know, out comes from the shadows, Gleason old, I mean, what's Gleason so? Do you know? So this is obviously in like smoking the band. There was stuff right in the, there was a, he was oh, one year from death. Yeah. Gleason dies the next year. But this is the whole backstory. Yes. Okay. Well, tell me, tell me, because I haven't looked at the best. You get through it more in depth, but there was a sequel book called the color of money. They basically only take the title from it, but the book has major Minnesota fats, which makes sense if you're going to write a sequel to the hustler. Right. Even when they start developing scripts and go like, throw all that out, start fresh, they kept writing in parts for Minnesota fats. And Newman was like, I think we should get Gleason back. And they finally were like, it only made sense to basically have like one extended scene.

13:21We couldn't justify making the bigger part, but they offered it to Gleason. He was like too small, not going to do it. Yeah. I mean, like, and Newman was like, he, he said and I agree that his like participation in the movie wouldn't really do much for the story. Yeah. It was like, of being a force ghost. You know, like it, we were, Sims and I were explaining this movie. A ball like it's just old, like I'm sitting in a chip. Yes. We were explaining this movie to your friend, Ellen Cushing, a co-host of your secret podcast. It's different. Everyone's subscribed. I have a baseball podcast. Oh, you do? It's a big secret. Yeah, I just ordered my friend's house. Yeah. But we were trying to explain what this movie is. She hadn't heard of it. And I was like, it's the original legacy, well, and David went, yeah, you're right. Like, and Minnesota fats would have been the original sort of like cheap pop. Yeah. If he showed up for one scene or showed up in the post credits, that would have been the original like, the audience applaud when it happens, but 10 minutes later, they feel gross about it. I also don't know that the hustler

14:22exists in people's like collective imaginations as like a sentimental favorite that they're like, could we bring, could we bring Minnesota fats back? Like, it's a cool, it's a cool character. Yeah. But it's like, that wouldn't hit the way, like the way we like work these, no, like legacy cameos into these new movies. No, I mean, Jackie Gleason was so iconic that maybe there's a degree of that. And movie he makes with the Jack with Richard Pire, the toy is, oh, that's, that's 82. Yeah. His final film is nothing in common, which is the Gary Marshall Tom Hanks, bad dad comedy, where they're both, they're looking at each other on the poster, going like, but Gleason's got a stoke. He's told the story many times. And cigar, but there, there was a, foundation of our friendships, and I was doing movie trivia night together at a bar called Videoology. And there was a question of what is the name of the movie, the Jackie Gleason and Tom Hanks did together. And I was like, oh, fuck, I can picture the poster

15:22and the two of them looking at each other. And it's not nothing but trouble. It's nothing, nothing, nothing. And I couldn't figure it out. And I looked at one of our teammates, whose name is K-A-M-E-N. And I went, common. I wouldn't have got it if I wasn't looking at his face and remembering what his name is. Gleason could have done it, but yeah. Why was I saying this? Oh, that you, it's like, does Minnesota Fats hold the same sort of like cultural memory as Yoda? You did discover Sims that there was a licensed but not connected to the movies licensed off the books only Sega Genesis game. Genesis and Saturn. Okay. Called Minnesota Fats Pool Legend. Did you check it out? Did you buy a Saturn maybe? No, I think you left for the story. I do is going to go get even by a Saturn. It's just so funny. I was seeing that it's technically the sequel to a different Billiards game. Yeah. And clearly they were just like, we need our Madden S-Cook.

16:23What's the name that moves units? We're not going to pay the Jackie Gleason likeness rights. But can we just get the name of the character from the book and put some other fat guy on the cover? Yeah, they have some full motion video of just a Minnesota Fats type. Mostly it's, you know, pool. Mostly you're playing pool. So that looks like basically like a bar blackjack machine version of it. It does. Yeah. I can't remember if I've ever played a pool of video game. It never really came into the rotation. Doesn't feel like a good translation. I would also say the fact that Billiards is a tabletop game. Yeah. I like to play video games of things I can't do. Right. Yeah. Right. You're playing Sega Genesis in like a rompis room in your dad's basement. There's like one of my pool. There's a 20 percent fan. I say there's already a Billiards table next to the Genesis. No, no, no, no, just over here. It's even better. But it's on the TV. All right. What is our podcast, Griffith? Our podcast is called blank check with Gurfing and David.

17:25I am Gurfing. I'm David. And it's in the way that we use it. That's right. It's a podcast about filmography's directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. Maybe this is the film that is derisively thought of as his purest paycheck gig. That is sort of the weird legacy of this movie within his career. We were both arguing that's kind of bullshit. But it certainly got hit with that at the time. Must admit though, it is the guarantor that allows him to immediately then make last temptation of Christ into his business. And it's either those movies career happen in that way if not for this. It's table versus careers. The right way to play it. It just it right. His career is in trouble. And he takes a gig. He does a fucking great job with it. It doesn't feel just asking. It wins Oscar. It makes my life down the middle. Right. And it's so well. I was in the lexicon of blank check. This would be that you say stabilizer. It's like the guarantor like guarantor is the term we usually use

18:29that that's like the thing that gets you. It's the hit that let's them give you the blank check. Right. You can't call last temptation of blank check. Because that's him being like, I'm going to spend every penny. Yes. Like, but I don't get that much. You know, we're going to get out of the desk and as you mortgage the house. Right. And he's like, if we put a pipe of fire, that'll back him to be safe. If I promised to make right fear, will you let me do this? But that movie was so risky and he had tried to do it for so long. Like his blank check is gangs of New York. Yes. That is his true like, I really, this nonfiction book about Bowery Gangsters. Can I have $100 million? Who knew you were going to build a new New York New York is also the first blank check. That's the first point of blank check. Right. And I would say basically post gangs in New York most of his 21st century work is blank check. He does gangs of New York is the most. Oh, no, 100%. Right. But then I think he just enters a phase where it's like, here's the deal if you want to make a Marty movie. Unless it's silence, unless he's back to last temptation, I know this is so risky that I got to make the smallest version of it possible.

19:29He's like, I want a nine month shoot and $150 million. Yeah. And then he also gets, I guess, could you, the language you use the language of it? Once the departed comes along and he does the run with decaprio, it's like, well, I have, I have this guy co-signing the lease. Exactly. But stabilizers are the term we haven't used before. And you're right. It's how to add it to the lexicon because it is a thing that's, sometimes we'll talk about a comeback film. But if you think getting his credit limit back up, that's what it does. 700. It was like 492. Like Raiders of the Lost Ark as a comeback post 1941 is a pure like, he bottomed out and then he struck gold as hard as you possibly could. This is just like everything is kind of safe again. You know, he still has to like put a lot on the line to make last temptation. But notably, this was his one movie where he was like, I'm coming in under schedule, under budget to prove a point.

20:32You know, I looked on Reddit. Color of money is generally agreed to be the first legacy sequel. Some people are like, just return to Oz Count. It's the year before. I'm like, not really like because it's not, I mean, yes, it has the characters, but like, it's too weird and it's too weird. You're not repeating the same designs. Obviously not right in the same cast. Some people are like, they seem like an algorithm. The dawn of the dead kind of counts because it was a long like, wait, between movies that like they don't have the same characters. It's just a sequel. Yeah. Yeah. And this like the tagline for this movie was the hustler, capital A, hustler, right? He's not what he used to be, but he has the next best thing a kid who is. So it's very much like the hustlers here, their friend, the rejected tagline for this movie was nine ball is rotation pool. Who's our guest? Our guest today in person in studio for the first time. Very excited and so excited. Chris Ryan off of well, not by the time this comes out,

21:33but you're you're still kind of coasting off of CR month. Yeah, CR month is extending into see your I was going to say it might be a CR decade now. I hope. I mean, yeah, I guess why not me, right? Why not you everybody else getting to be back kind of a CR month. But I got to be there. Yeah, to be there. And they got to beat the shelter. Yes, which was great. And we salute them and thank them for doing that. I salute them and thank them for doing that. And and thank you to Darryl Mori, who as of this recording, had just lost his job. That he's putting together that team. So will he like have another NBA job or is this it? I wonder whether or not this is two minutes. This is like, did we say the team name? All allow the sixers. The fellow Duffies 76ers. And this is their general manager, president who got fired after the season. Right. And I kind of a king of NBA doorkdom who has maybe, you know, become a little bit of a fossil. I think he could do like a very successful podcast if he wanted to do. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Can do that. Yeah. But like does he want to run him into the, I don't know. I will call out that this is a mini series on the films of March.

22:35Gorsese, it's called podcast fellas. Today we're talking about the color of money. We were originally trying to it felt obvious to get you on master and commander the far side of the world. And we were like, last time we did over zoom, it'd be really nice to do it in person. Schedules weren't lining up. And around the time where it was like, do we just do master and commander of zoom? Is there a chance you end up coming here? We're like, we're in the middle of our March madness thing. And it looks like it's probably going to shake out to be Tony Scott versus Martin Scorsese. And you said, well, if that happens, I'm moving to New York. And I'm on every episode. It did kind of feel like you know what? Let's save it because between those two guys, you're going to have a pick your passion about. And then when it landed on Marty, we said, what are your, you know, and you said like, obviously I do any of them, but these five are the big ones. Immediately felt like color of money just sort of jumps out as being correct, the best possible episode in a lot of ways. There is a rewatchable color of money up to this. There is. I listen to it. Yes. You Bill and Sean, the big three, you know,

23:35it's great. I don't remember all this specifically. I'm just not done talking about it. You know, it's like I was kind of like with master and commander. I was like, oh, this would be fun because I have never actually done it. I've never actually like, what was that? I'm not going to worry what I guess. I guess maybe eventually it would be and that could have been one because like during the arm month, I had, I would say, 85% curatorial power, you know, or I would, I would be making the suggestions and then, or Bill would be making the suggestions and I would pick or I would. As Chris for Nolan always says, it's never truly a blank track. It's collaborative. You know what I mean? We all have boss. They're always conditions. But what were some of the picks? For the arm month, it was cicareo, uh, uh, sick, Fargo, sick, cardio, Fargo to live in Dianna LA, LA, confidential. And I feel like I've got nice guys, guys, which I feel like this was weirdly like a bunch of LA movies, which I didn't intention intentionally do. Yeah, it's true. You didn't do like an East Coast movie, but it was a very cool month to be able to just be like, fuck, they shot that right there. Right. This is awesome. You know, it's become a less frequent occurrence

24:36as the years have gone on just because our schedule is, has as too many masters to serve. But Ben, we, we a lot of Ben's choice. Oh, every one of them. A lot of it used to be sort of a palette cleanser between us. Serious, but kind of our closest equivalent. But that if you want to just tell Chris some of the Ben's choice can. And here it blatch. Bang under siege to yes, has never seen under siege. What oh, now I have. I have. At the time hadn't not like like a sea sequel. No, really. Clifford. Okay. Not the dog. What's what is it then the Martin true movie? Oh, okay. Yeah. Have you not seen it? I have not. Oh, I'll check it out. Yeah. It's worth it. Okay. It's basically the most evil for two or like child 12 year old. For a child to turn in. So I remember this. Yeah, I never saw it. But I do remember it. It's sort of like the omen. If it's not supernatural, but the child is played by an adult. Yeah. Yeah. It's really fun. It feels like he possesses a cosmic evil, but he doesn't actually have powers.

25:37Sure. Right. Assassin's Creed. Yep. Fast-bender one. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not aware of another. Yeah. Similarly, a movie Ben loves despite the time he's a Danish. He's a Danish. Assassin's Creed. The original one. Okay. No. Not the old one. David, just don't talk for a while. Similarly, Ben had never played a second of any Assassin's Creed game before. Interesting. Choosing a foreign episode, having watched the movie 20 times. Sure. And then most recently, Edge of Tomorrow. Yeah. Edge of Tomorrow is great. But anyway, I had not talked about Master Commander before, but I obviously have spoken about color money on rewatchables and then in various forms of the big picture. But I still feel like there's chalk on the stick. I try to be like 15 fucking episodes on the Muppet movie while still every year pushing David to be like, can we do the proper Hanson Oz combo series? And I question, have I just shot my load on this? Have I shared the takes I ever relced? I'm like, every time I watch that movie, I got new thoughts. Yeah. It's an endless well.

26:38I'm never going to run out of stuff to say. And they're very similar movies. I'm going up at movies. I'm going to spring a little hammock right under the desk for those. David's fucking rude joke. He says he's going to go on vacation. Just fucking leave me in a room along to monologue. You won't even notice. It's my swammy to Cambodia. Another thing about the Swedish chef. Honestly. He's not, I wouldn't have much to say. He's not a bit of a huffing spoil. Yeah, fucking right. Yeah, that's right. Oh, we went to, we went to baseball yesterday. I was so happy. We went to baseball as they say. We went to see the mats defeat the tigers and going to night too. You're going to night? Yeah. Subway series. Got a scene. Oh, the subway series is starting. Yeah, I mean, the Matty Yankees. I liked that as a kid. Sure. It's very rare as a kid. Rare. Good luck. Yeah. Now, in case listeners were wondering, you know, was this just a regular sort of night or day, I should say out at the the baseball. Why, why was I so interested in going? It was funny that, right. Griffin was like, should we go like a baseball game, David's son of the mats?

27:39We could do it as a team. One second later, just text like, Star Wars Day, I found this. We're going to this one. Yeah. Free bobblehead, we got to go. Oh, you have the bobblehead to show up. Great. I think we should also be on this. Unfail this. No one can. Wow. Very cool. Yeah. I do think we should leave some of this for the Mandalorian. Yeah, we'll talk about this. Yeah, we'll have happened. We're just telling Chris. Yeah. Okay, cool. David. Yes. If your daughter designed her own credit card, what would it have on it? Um, probably like rainbows and unicorns and stuff. Are those the most popular right now? I mean, I got another question. If you got a notification every time your kid spent money, what do you think it would be for? Look, she's not quite there yet, but Cash App now offers managed accounts for eight kids. Oh, ages six to 12 that grow with them all the way to adulthood, all with no subscription fees because building money habits shouldn't cost extra.

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29:43When did you first see this one? This is some kind of VHS rental in like just like $889. Right. And 86 how old are you? Nine. Yeah. So a little, but I wouldn't put it past my dad to have that. And I could see nine year old being you being obsessed with this movie immediately. And I have very early memories because it was the 80s that like I would spend Sundays not in pool halls, but in bars with my dad where he would be like, here are some quarters to go play video games in the corner. And I'm going to sit here for five hours and watch football. And that's how we both need to go back. Exactly. How close or far are you from being able to do that with your children? Pretty far. Yeah. Pretty far. Pretty far. I mean, and also, and I wouldn't like, you know, it's not like it, but like I, especially in Britain, when I moved there and you would like hang out with your friends, dads, they'd be like, we're going to the pub.

30:44Yeah. I don't want to look like I will be seen. Try not to inhale too much second hand smoke. You kids run around. Like, sometimes you go to like a pub that had like a backyard and be like, just fucking get out of here. If you want some chips, I'll get you some chips. But like the, the, when I saw the movie, even before I understood any of what I was watching, I understood the, the accuracy in which it captured like a certain feeling of those places. I was going to say I, when I tried to imagine the cartoon child diversion of you, I, I imagine you were a little similar to my brother, who, if a movie was about sports in any way, he was 1000% locked in, especially if it's about like the actual, the psychology, the milieu, the world, the business, any of those things, it didn't matter how mature it was, how dry it was. He was just like, I, this is a portal into a world I want to understand.

31:44As I've said before in the show, his ninth birthday party was making all of his friends at school, watch a VHS of Michael Mann's Ali. And it was his seventh time watching. He's nine. So it was like his assassin's screwed. Yeah, and he's like, it's interesting politically what he's like, you know, it was just like, if there's some prism of sports through this, that's then like an understanding of how adults function or history or talking about this with somebody else, because I was talking about Excalibur with Paul who works at Radiance and Transmission, the DVD label. And we did a pot of his podcast called Old Movies. We were talking about Excalibur and I was like, man, that time in your life where you're actually just watching movies entirely based on your own personal passions, but not movies. You're like, so if this movie is about a thing that I love, like King Arthur or Baseball or whatever, then I'll watch the movie no matter how good or bad it is. And I'll watch the movie 45 times.

32:46But then eventually that turns into I love movies. So I want the movie itself to be successful in some aesthetic way. And it's like this, this is right at a turning of the page for me, like whenever I actually watched it. And then I've just returned to it over and over again, just because at any given point in my life, I'm deeply fascinated by some aspect of it, whether it's Richard Price or Saisy or Newman or Cruz or whatever. So it's just always been there. Is this, do you think this would have been the first Corsese you saw? Or say, you know, if you're like 10, 11 years old, like it's like, you know, that's a great question. Like taxi driver or raging bull yet, like probably not. No, and if I did, because like my parents would watch movies while I was like kind of like upstairs and I would come to the landing and sort of peek down the stairs to see what they're watching. This is why I remember Miami Vice always the TV show. So vividly is that that was like, I was not allowed to be there. To grown up, but but I would watch it from like 30 feet away on a down angle.

33:47It was my mom with ER and Seinfeld. And only two TV shows she was. I'm also ER was like the double barrel. ER and NYP blue were the big two. I was like, all right, out of the room. And then pretty quickly with the ER, I got to stay in the room because she was like, I guess it's medical. It's not it's like you're learning lessons. Yeah, it's not that lurking. Like, I'm a doctor. Is it a 30 film critic? Then instead I watched Ali McBeal with her and was like, I want to be a lawyer. They all hang out in a fun office and do songs. Well, that was baby. That was Ed for us. We were we were into the bowling alley. Not the sexy lawyer. Did your dad take you to screenings? Yeah. Well, this was my other question just of the era. Was your dad ever getting screeners for reviews or was he always going to have like a pretty robust like the Philadelphia critics would go see and it would be inquire in the daily news and the TV critics and you know, the why critic and the NPR person. When fucking things were correct, there was like a robust local journalism. I mean, I was the my my sort of earliest most crystal clear memory of this of being with him

34:52is Veraki for at a real palace on Chestnut Street in Philly. And this is the year before Rocky for 85 right? Yeah. And him snapping at someone for talking during Rocky for the premiere of it and you'd be late. Touch. Yeah, please. Like this is Rocky for me. Are in Philadelphia. There might be some crowd. Just go in the rough and it's just like, I'm watching this. It's like, can't you put it together? What's happening here? I'm watching here. I was always fascinated by like, especially I feel like talk shows in the 90s where the host would talk about like, hey, I saw I saw your movie. The studio sent me a screener. And I would be like, right, so like David Letterman is watching a new release movie before it's come out on VHS in bed. Yeah, you think he's watching color of money and then just like, newman's here tonight. That would always be the implication. And I was always curious about like, what percentage of film critics are being sent these screeners versus their tongue? They have to go to the theater. I don't ever remember they're being in advance tape at my dad's house.

35:54I think it was just a lazy fucking talk show host thing. Yeah. I probably didn't see this movie until I was in college and was sort of like embarking on being like a Scorsese completist or whatever. I was like, oh, I should watch that one. I definitely saw the hustler when I was a teenager because my dad loved that. I saw the hustler in high school as sort of my self-imposed film education. I had never seen this movie in full. I had basically, whoa, this was like a Cloverfield monster like watching it. I was like, I have seen almost every scene of this. Yeah. But it was a, I'm watching 20 minutes on cable. I'm seeing scenes on YouTube kind of thing. And this is like a big cable move. Yeah, right? Like this is all of it. But I had never truly like sat down watch it from beginning to end. Very little of it felt totally new to me. But the experience of watching it as a whole was. Yeah. And I rewatched the hustler and then watched this straight through. And I would say probably in there's a long period of time where I watched the first hour

36:55of this a lot. The first hour of this is like better than Citizen Kane. And then and then it goes into the kind of twilight of middle age. Like, yeah, which is really good. There was a little throw it. Yeah, drop off for me. We've been talking about this because some of the weird movies have this as well where we were like a movie that remains excellent. But the first 45 minutes to an hour feels like hypnotic, like supernaturally powerful. This is dancing on the edge of a pin. Like this is the best thing I've ever seen. Right. And then right. And then the third actor kind of like, I guess that makes sense that they did that. But I'm a little less. Do you feel a hustler by the way sort of has that too where like the opening Minnesota fats like challenge is half an hour. There's basically a monocene that is like there's a little cold open of seeing do one hustle. And then there's basically half an hour of like one endless night.

37:55That is transfixing. It's hypnotic. So the other thing that immediately grabbed me about this movie when I was young, even if I couldn't finish it or found the second half of it to be like incomprehensible just because of like what emotional pain is this guy going through as he gets manipulated by forest Whitaker and stuff like it was the language. And immediately, immediately responding in a way like with price and with manate when I was young, I was like, nobody's taught like, I've never heard people talk like this, but this is how people talk. And that's that was always the thing and continues to grab me about it. I think similarly any movie that introduces its own vocabulary immediately has me leaning in. If it's a vocabulary that is real, I get the sense of this is giving me a look into a world where people talk this way rather than just making up fake like planet names or whatever, especially the vocabulary of con artists, scams, crimes, it's just cracked to me.

39:00Yeah. And and pool hustlers. And I mean, I just I still remember her her saying on the snap. Vincent, you're like, what? Well, we'll say on the snap. Do or did you ever play a lot of pool? I did play a fair amount of pool. I was never that good, although I was what you say. Yeah. I was just pretending you're drunk. It's crazy. I've never done this before. I I'll take any old cubes, but weird luck. But I got I got I think enough of a run in a time in American history where it was pretty routine to have a pool table in a bar. And now it is increasingly rare. That is true. I can't remember the last time I was at a bar that had so a billier to stable. So I used to it's so funny. You keep saying billiards table to me because I'm very classy. I'm a classy man. I used to hang out at two bars that still have pool tables. Basically for all my 20s, my best friend was in a band. And every Saturday, band would rehearse. Then I would hang out with them at the bar. You should just say Jared let with the greatest I can tomorrow.

40:02You don't need to be taking it. The best for Molly is the bassist in an art rock band called Thrillington. I went to some of those concerts with that. Yeah, great thing. I was always at a and full full circle bar in Williamsburg, which I think is still there where you get free drinks in your birthday. And buttermilk in Park Slope, which is still there and has a pool table on a, you know, slight slant, but you know, it's there. And I would play pool all night. I'm terrible. I think objectively. But what's better than fucking rack and some balls with your bro's? There's also like for most of those bar pool tables, they're like, you know what? The other side of this is right against the wall. So don't put yourself in any kind of position where you have to shoot from that side. Yeah, love it whenever that's when it's like a Friday night. And like, you know, someone is trying to play pool, but it's so packed that you're like just getting hit by a stick when you're on your way to the bathroom. You don't must say the circumstances, the setup, the equipment is not ideal, but it's in the way that you use it. There's also I live near a pool hall.

41:03Like not that far. Like in Park Slope, there's O.C. Oh, yes, yes. Yes, right. Which is like a class by Gary Ross. Yes, a classic dingy ass like basement with like 20 pool tables. And like, I've not been there in years. I, the guys who are there are a certain kind of guy. And I'm not up to playing pool with any of them. They abide by the assassin's greed. Yeah. They face the way. But what's the one near aster place? I'm on university. Uh, it's, I think it might be university billiards or something like that. Sounds right. And that is the classic architecture of up, up a relatively narrow staircase. Amsterdam billiards. Yeah, Amsterdam. And then you're like, how we, when I'm on their side, I'm just putting pool tables underneath. It's just a store front. And when you go inside, it's like, did Charlie Kaufman direct direct this? How did you guys find like a full city block of pool tables that go back to

42:03this place? It's like Disney World where the rides are never actually in the building. They pretend the ride isn't. Yeah. It's in some weird warehouse to the frame to get to the pool tables. They lower you down underground. It's also one of those places where like it does not matter what time of day it is. If you walk up those stairs and look out the window, it's night now. Yeah. Yeah. It's like they basically have poker room lighting where it's just like, yeah, man, like whatever it's okay if you're here at 11 am. It's, it's, it's 9 pm. I can't say, I don't think I've ever played 9 ball. I always played 8 ball. Obviously, like what any idiot knows how to play. I played Snooker in Britain sometimes, but Snooker is incredibly different. So I was going to ask, yeah, please. They have a different name for pool hall. Like do they call it like a, I don't know, like a fucking snooker parlor? You know what I think they spelled with a you. A snookerie? You ever call it a snookerie? Do they have snookeries? Like, or is it just there's a snooker table? Okay. So this, you guys are doing something that is what Americans say, which is they say snooker. I remember my mom would say snooker.

43:04Like I moved to England where they televised snooker on primetime television. Like you turn on, I would turn on the TV and she'd be like, are you watching someone play pool? And I'm like, it's snooker. Like it's like, it's fun. It's, it's cool. The one has the, is it where they have the little wood, like things on the table or is that something else? I have no idea with that. Snooker, you just have a bockered. No, there's like a version of pool. They have little like things on the table top. I remember my uncle had it growing up. I'll look, don't know. I mean, in Britain, you call it a pool parlor, a billiard hall, whatever, like, you know, but you know snooker, sure. I do know snooker, but snooker and cricket remain like, I could watch this for 300 years and not know the rules. There's nothing like just Google, like, Raniosell have been doing like a perfect break in cigarettes. So cool. But it's like, it's nine reds and then six or seven colored balls and you have to do red than color, red than color, red than color. And then you have to pocket all of the colors in a specific order. It's like very complex and it's all about like, snookering someone is putting the ball where the other players going to be fucked.

44:07This sounds like some vanhemer's lead to, by billiards bullshit. To invoke one of my favorite comedy sketches. I think one of the most ingenious parts of color of buddy is actually like, Scorsese, he sets up nine ball pretty well. You're like, yeah, you know what? I get it. You know, I broadly understand. What do I understand? Maybe. Yeah. And then it's four TV and that they move fast and they play a lot of games and you can get lucky. No, it's true. He's so good at not bothering you at all with like, details about it without, right? Like, ignoring it. I mean, he's also the second anyone's like, yeah, that's like, Scorsese picking up a paycheck. You're like, do you think he's anything less than thrilled by the potential of how to shoot this game? Because this is not just like, flash, style over substance shit. He's got like, you know, Paul Newman and a Richard Price script, but I feel he is as cinematic, recupricated first script. That's wild. You know, kind of like, hey, this celebrated novelist is writing a screenplay. Like, yeah, it was like a big deal. But you just feel him like rubbing his hands together and going like, oh, shit.

45:09On the impact of the cue hitting the ball, I could move the camera from here to here. And it's all like, you have found a way to make this game feel aesthetic. The, I mean, we'll talk about the movie, but like the crash zoom when like, when Newman breaks and you're just like, oh, Martin Scorsese loves cocaine. Like, you know, like, it's just like, Martin Scorsese, who I don't even know where he, but like, he's like, he understands. Like, you're just like, Newman's like, oh, shit. I think this is the greatest feeling in the world I forgot. Like, with the way it like just jumps on his face when he finally picks up a cue again. I think he's kicked it by this point. Yeah, but it's, of course, he's like, I know how I would feel if someone like gave me a line. He's basically making a movie as he's just pulled his Vince to bed. And just trying to be in his fast Eddie. I just sell liquor. I'm going to open the dossier. Martin Scorsese, and I tell you guys a little bit. I do want to tell you the right before this movie, he did direct to an episode of Steven Spielberg's amazing stories called Mirror Mirror.

46:12We will be covering that on Patreon. I don't know much about it. Have you seen? I've only seen the title card that says directed by Martin Scorsese and people being like, we used to do great things with television. I mean, I was going to say pretty good title card. Yeah. To put on on anything. A sign of quality. Ben has just kind of like a horror thing. He texted us a photo of a billiards table. It's called bumper pool. Bumper pool. Oh, that's a funny thing. It looks like a fucking pinball table. Yeah, this looks very complicated, I will say. And it was like a thing where I like, I would have loved to have played when I was at my own ghost house, but I was like, I don't know what this is. I don't know how to play this. But that's what I thought Snooker was. I anyway. It's 24 minute television film six day shoot. He didn't have final cut. So I don't know that he really enjoyed it. But it was his first ever horror movie or horror thing. And he loves like, you know, Val Lutin. He loves like Mario Bava. Obviously he's very into like, run and burgl. Like he's into horror.

47:13It's funny that he never. Shuttar Island. Shuttar Island is the closest. Shuttar Island is his cape fierce, pretty hard. Yeah, both of those I would, I would still fundamentally call thriller. Shuttar Island is definitely the closest. Shuttar Island. He's really using the horror imagery of those. The touchstones of these guys, right? And it kind of sounds like this new thing. And the air as well. Yeah. This new, what's it called? It happened at night. Yeah, it sounds like you have a touch of that. Right? I hope so. That means it's going to be a little rebexated here or whatever. Right. Yeah. The only time he ever works with Michael came in. I don't know why I'm talking about this. It's not important. We will have to cover it on Patreon. Right. Exactly. Or we'll cover it right after this. In 86. He's in a film that I watched relatively recently because I'm watching a lot of 1986 movies for a big picture draft that may or may not ever happen. Yes. And on a day, the big picture. He is kind of like the third or fourth most important character in round midnight. The, uh, oh yeah. Yeah. He is like when Dexter Gordon comes to New York, the fast-talking like guy who's like, okay, let me take you to the bars. You know, like I'll take you to your concept, Mr.

48:14Mr. Dexter Gordon. Chris, we saw the Mandalorian and Grogu last night. We just went to meet up with him at a bar and how is Dexter Gordon in it? Yeah. Scorsese is so good in it. It's in. It actually is crazy. How suited he is to it. But he came in and told me that Scorsese is in it. And for like a full minute, I was like, so Martin Scorsese just walks into the bar in the Mandalorian and starts doing Martin Scorsese. I didn't know he was doing the voice of like, of an alien. Yes. And I don't know if it's Mocap. I don't think they do much Mocap in these movies, but I will say the creature, they really got his mannerisms down. Okay. You do feel like you're seeing it through representation Scorsese on screen. And the performance is so good. And I would say basically everyone else in the movie is so wouldn't. And so it's so out of it. Dripping our armrests being like, holy shit, he's so fucking locked. The other one is good as Stephen McKinley Henderson. He is. He's also great as another alien. Yes. But it is this thing.

49:15And I felt the same way watching his arc on the studio last season where I'm like, look, he's, he's arguably the greatest living American filmmaker. I want to make as many movies as he can with his remaining years, which hopefully are decades ahead of us. I would love if he got some more acting roles in there as well. I am always so happy anytime he is acting in something. He is always so fucking good. I don't want him to be like, you know what? It's fun being on the frinking. I'll just do that. No. Making films. You know what I mean? But I love him to do more one, two scene things. Yeah. Well, around midnight's example, that he had been in Paris. He was scouting locations for last temptation, like, you know, a prior version of it. And like was like hanging out with Bertrand Tevelle, the guy, you know, the director, links him with Erwin Winkler, his producer. Of course, his and his basically like, you know, he wants to make a film set in New York, of a bar and Bertrand is like, you will have to play

50:18the owner of the club, you know, like when I do this. And so that is why he's in that film. He's very good. Last temptation obviously is Corsese's 80s mountain. That he's trying to climb, you know, and he's trying to do it in the early 80s. It fails. And so he makes after hours as a sort of pivot out of that of like, I'll just do something. After hours is kind of an interesting. It's like a partial reset movie where he just needed to show that he could make something that wasn't a disaster. And he needs to like get back on the horse. Yes. And not just like curl up in a bottle movie. Right. It's rules. Yes. But it was a cheap movie. It was made independently. Warner Brothers releases it. It does okay. He sort of back in like a safety zone without necessarily the studio is trusting that they could give him a lot of resources and that he would use it responsibly. That is also another movie which is somehow not made on cocaine. Yeah. Where it's just, but it is, it is the sense memory of cocaine for me.

51:18It's it's it's both of these movies feel like. If I if I'm going to truly not touch that shittany more, it will be the central preoccupation of my art. I need to like work through one of these five guys of every thing I do. I would say like through good fellas. Right. Like the last temptation is the interruption. But he's like, I need to cinematically say goodbye to this. Yeah, it really culminates with the helicopters above every right. And then it's like goodbye to cocaine. No, I think I'm good. Yeah. Casino's got got some cocaine. It's blood. Yeah. Some but I would not say casino is like a movie where you know cocaine is a main character in the same way. For sure. It's don't I think for sure. Yeah, I think you're going to you're going to remember when you rewatch. Yeah. Casino some other movies he was linked to around them. Dick Tracy. Right. We'll talk about this whenever we do Warren Baydie, but he was a contender to direct with Warren starring I believe. Right. Right. Right. Winter's tale, which has eventually turned into one of the oddest movies

52:21every made. But at the time, the time, yes, yeah, at the time is like a hot new book. He's attached to that. But Mark, help her in I believe is the novelist. A bio a biopic of Gershwin ring by Paul Schrader, which has never come to pass. And an adaptation. I can you imagine. I mean, can you imagine an adaptation of the Elmore Leonard novel La Brava that Dustin Hoffman wanted to make. I've never read La Brava. I think that's one of the Detroit ones. So I think that's a Detroit crime one. No, no, I'm not. I'm not. No, it's like Joe La Brava, former Secret Service agent. Oh, is he in Florida taking pictures? He gets involved with a former movie star. Yes, yeah, that's for I've never, yeah. Hoffman, you know, who's famously like the most gigantic painting in the Asuna world is trying to make an into movie for years. It ends up at Canon. Yeah, it never happens.

53:21Life's too short to work with Dustin Hoffman was a off-prepided phrase in Hollywood for decades. Now, color money. Michael Ovitz, guys heard of him. Speaking of guys with normal energy, Super Agent who founded CAA, one of his biggest clients is Paul Newman. And he's, you know, trying to win his guy in Oscar, Paul Newman watches Raging Bull on, I guess, Ovitz's recommendation and says like, that's one of the best things I've ever seen. I know if it's just like, why don't you fucking make a movie with Marty? Like, let's call out another connection. Jake Lamata is in the hustler as a bartender. Oh, shit. Sure, the real Jake Lamata. Right. Yeah. So that's a one of the reasons the Paul Newman is leaning in and watching that movie is like, you know, oh, I'm interested. I knew Jake Lamata. I interface with this fucking guy. And he's seeing like, man, Squarespace, he got him right. And as connecting those dots, there's also, you know, Ovitz was Squarespace, he's neighbor for a long time. I think he lived under. He, and he shared an office with Harry Oflin

54:24who was, Squarespace, he's agent back in the 70s. Yeah. So he's always been into him. But, but, I think Ovitz lived near Squarespace, he during Squarespace and Robbie Robertson staying up all night, watching horror movies when they're. Yes, I know. It's just had like a big funnel and he would suck the coke fumes from the next door window. I don't know if it's in the dossier here, but it sounds like Ovitz when he was like, young and getting started. Yeah. Right. Like, was living adjacent to Squarespacey in that time. And that Squarespacey would like, loan him movies, show him movies, bring him upstairs to show him a VHS that there was a little bit of cinematic education. This is an example of what Ovitz was sort of smart about. It's like, Newman's like, I'd like to work with Marty Scher. And Ovitz is like, right him a letter. It's going to mean a lot. And Paul Newman's like, what? And he's like, right, just trust me. Like, right him a letter saying you admire him. He envires you. Paul Newman's like, he does. And he's like, yeah, sure. Like, you know, like convinced him to do this. Drops the letter personally to Marty. Like, gives him a pur, and he says like, Squarespacey like,

55:24opens the letter and like, it lights up even though it is a, it is addressed to Michael Squarespace. But he forgives that. Yeah. He's still charmed. And you know, like, you know, my guess is it's sort of like, Ovitz is like, I know he's an artist. He's probably not going to want to do like a commercial thing. So I'm going to try and like, nudge him towards something commercial. Can I do a minute or two on Ovitz quickly? Because we talked about him before. But I think this movie is a good, this is a big Ovitz project. Right. So for people who don't know, Michael Ovitz was one of the founders of CAA, right? And he basically becomes the archetype of the modern agent. And part of that is sort of being an agent who also functions a little bit more like a manager. And I think the genius of what he did. And you know, normal guy in our parlance. But to give credit to what he did successfully, and it had certain negative entail effects on the industry, it was sort of like, he recognized a gulf in the collapse of the studio system

56:27that used to be invested in people's careers. It would have a director or an actor under contract. And they would be managing them long term. Not just thinking about how do I get him a gig. But like, what's the arc we're building here? What's the next era we want to go into? That falls apart, artists get their own independence. But suddenly it's like, if you're Warren Beatty and you've got really good taste and you're smart and you're driving everything and you have that level of power, you're fine. You just need an agent to fucking make your contracts. Close your deals. But some people don't have the same kind of vision. And Ovid's is like, this is what we're going to build our business on. Is that we are thinking long term. It is a career business. It's not a gig-to-gig business. And the other part of it is the beginning of like, super packaging, right? And that's what this movie is a great example of. Of just like, oh fuck, if I can put like three insane elements together on paper and then go to the studios and say like, fuck you, you have five minutes to decide. This is a bidding war.

57:27It starts to change how much. Fuck you, it's about pool. Nobody's happy. Right. Fuck you. Five minutes to decide. His famous example of this is that he puts together like, Ghostbusters and goes to all of the studios and is like, like, it's on everyone's table. You know, like, start bidding. Here's everything. It's like the two funniest men in America from the director of Stripes and the other guy from Stripes is co-writing it. And he's in it. And we're going to have special effects. And Slimeer. Right. Slimeer's a board. Because Slimeer's tough to get. Yeah, Slimeer's tough to get. Slimeer's off for only. He was a CAA client. Yeah. Slimeer also a huge code problem. It's funny. It's funny that you said that that huge Slime problem. There was this ovid stance of him knowing that Scorsese was such an artistically driven man to drop my one story I have of working on vinyl where I had this incredible extent to conversation with Scorsese. I sort of lucked into where he was talking fairly vulnerably

58:27about the criticism of him becoming a paycheck guy. That he was still very sensitive about the criticisms of his later period and the idea that he doesn't care dust things for money now. And he was like, I very earnestly like every movie I've made I deeply care about. And like some of them I made more money on and some of them are more passionate to me and some things I developed in this and that. But I like never made a movie just for money. And he said to me, I remember Michael Ovid's coming up to me at a party. I'm trying to think what the timeline of this would have been. It must have been pre-after hours, right? It's post-raising bull, but I don't know. Sometime in this, there are raging bull, king of comedy. Michael Ovid's comes up to him at a post-screening party or post-premier party for one of his movies and says, you know, Marty, there is a way to make money doing this.

59:27I mean, look, we're going to get there. That was a line he used to lure him into color of money. And there was sort of the dance of him being like, I'm not going to do something just for money. And he's like, but there's a way to do both. There is a way to make a movie the way you want to with like incredible assets like Paul Newman and also get paid, not lose your house trying to get it made and have it be commercially successful, which will ultimately speaking to this long-term career vision help you get shit like last-temptation or gangs in New York made. They're not going to give you that if you keep making shit like king of comedy. Yeah, I'm sure also. I mean, it appeals to two sides of his sensibility. He's at once like, I have archived a Neo-realist Serbian movie that eight people have seen. And he's also like, Humphrey Bogart, love him. Like, let's make like movie stars are awesome and Dollywood is great. It's the best about him. Yeah. And so many of the filmmakers he grew up loving had careers like that.

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1:03:37sequel to his novel The Hustler. He dies a lung cancer just a year later. Paul Newman is into it because he's, he feels differently about fast eddy, basically, than any other party's played. And he's like, Eddie's not complete at the end of the hustler. It's not like Butch Cassidy or whatever. Like I often wondered about what he would be doing now. Like it's not like a thing where like his story just, because obviously the hustler ends with him basically like, in a hole. I don't know if this is controversial to say, but upon rewatching it, I think this is the best of the young Newman performances. I know he's incredible in Butch Cassidy and Cool Handlewik and whatever, but like it does feel like the hustler gets something very unique. Yeah, my favorite's HUD. It's HUD. I mean, it's like 100%. Yes, HUD. That's like the best screen performance of all time. He's really fucking astonishing in hustlers. Yeah, he's awesome. He's so awesome. Yes. But yeah, it's great because he's so hot and he's so charming.

1:04:38And he plays such assholes in these movies. And sure does. You know, it's like he actually like whatever he saw when he looked in the mirror. Yeah, so divorced from what everybody sees when they look on screen. It's fascinating because it does feel like there are actors like him who want to play unlikable because they feel burdened by their charisma, you know, or the accessibility they have to people's interests. Right. Ugly me up or make me scarier. Yeah. And it feels performative and it feels hollow or it feels kind of like self-punished. So punchy. Yeah. Yeah. And with him, it feels like a genuine, not like a genuine reflection of a self-hatred. But there is a very honest probing into the darkest sides of the psyche that don't feel stunty. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And in some ways, maybe a perfect foil or a perfect partner for Scorsese because their newman's like look like I flash the baby blues

1:05:43and everybody comes to the movie but then they get confronted with like the drags of the human's condition. And Scorsese is like I make camera move fast. But we're going to we're going to actually get in yeah, to some pretty dark stuff here. So it's like it's the perfect medicine and sugar, right? Yeah. That's the other thing that like newman's seeing and raging bowl of like man, this guy's really good at dissecting what makes men terrible. He really gets it. He's not trying away from that. Okay. So the novel right he's into it. Tevis is given a shot at writing a screenplay. He writes a draft another writer does another draft. No name for that one. I've never read any I didn't I didn't read color of money the novel the tevis novel. I don't think I don't know if the screenplay is around anywhere but the reporting on the screenplay is like it's basically a two-hander with that's in any more going by the book. Right. It's like Rocky too. Yeah. It's just like it's like we're old now and it's Florida

1:06:43but like we're doing cable TV like exhibitions but then we're also hustling each other. It's more like Creed too. Newman still remembers Scorsese. Love raging bowl. Scorsese has just done just finished on after hours and Paul calls him and is like do you want to do a sequel to the hustler? Obviously like Scorsese is like my taste is not in sequels but I do love Paul Newman. Like I mean how do you it's like the president calling you being like I need you to be the secretary of state or whatever. Also it's fucking Paul Newman. This held the record for a long time of the biggest gap between sequel and original film. As you said there was the return to Oz thing that doesn't really count. And now we get more and more like your your Sean legacy is in your top gun Mavericks where it's just casually. Keep you. Right. 37 40 years later whatever the fuck it is. You know Blade Runner obviously the Star Wars sequels. At this time I think that already sounded novel

1:07:45and different novel. It's novel for sure. But there's also back then sequels are so yes right. Right Godfather to the only one that basically is taken seriously. So Newman sits down with him and he's like Eddie reminds me of you know characters you've dealt with I feel like we should hear more from him. I've got a script. Scorsese is intrigued. He does not like the script because it is a literal sequel like you know basically it even had like it was supposed to start with like stuff from the hustle. I think it starts with like a 10 or 12 minute like or 12 page like this is from the hustler. Yeah right. And so you know they let the writer who wrote this script the unnamed writer one more draft that still doesn't they don't like it. He doesn't really like the novel either. So then he's basically like can we just drop the novel. We'll keep the title but otherwise can we just like do something. This is the power of the package is you don't go like well sorry

1:08:47you don't like the script thanks for considering this film let's find a new director. You go no the selling point here is Scorsese makes the hustler sequel. Yes so let's figure out the version he wants to make. So Richard Price who had written these books like the Wanderers and Blood Brothers and seeing are like prices sort of like Western early-ish in his career but yeah just selling like four books and then this marks his departure from novels to do screenplays until he comes back to right clockers which clockers is so good. Lush life is like the one right here. I think that's a good book. Yeah and he worked on the wire later in life and all that you know he became such a luminary. He'd never written a screenplay that had been produced. He'd done some you know he'd done some stuff in Hollywood. He was like a little hung up on a novel I guess and obviously you make a lot more money writing movies than you do writing novels that may or may not get published. Yeah I mean it's I rewatch Barton think again recently because it was playing at the Paris with Tattaro doing a Q&A and I you know it's it just made me think about like right that's how Hollywood

1:09:52used to run is they would just go to all great novelists and playwrights and go like look if sitting in office you're gonna pay a lot more and then you can go back and write your little things and now it feels like they are the exceptions to the role. There are the couple you can call out where you're like that guy kind of successfully made the lead. Yeah who's like the most recent person I mean Gillian Flynn kind of did that yeah that's a good example for sure. I mean like uh Benny off is that yeah he did like two novels and was like forget it. Yeah so Newman's course as he impressed sit down in Cal in Malibu this is how price describes it. Me and Marty the two New York guys were on the beach Marty sitting there with his jacket in his nasal spray. I'm smoking a cigarette hunched over coughing. Newman comes out all turned up Mr. Cien ski eating a grapefruit. We were two clowns with the Hollywood platinum and then we just hammered out a plot line like you know in one day essentially like what's fucking Eddie doing now the novel he like hooks up with a professor. It's like a Roman weird like they open an antique store right seriously

1:10:58and the antique store gets burned down sorry for spoiling this novel that yeah uh so like so Scorsese is basically like it's not like he's just been doing nothing. He's just gotten like tougher and meaner to survive or whatever like that's kind of you know um but he needs to sort of reeducate himself to play again like that's that's you know the age of 52 he's you know blah blah blah and uh first time in Nepal Newman I asked him why this guy would start playing pool again in these 50s I said to Paul why do you race if you don't win every time he's talking with loves a fucking you know race car right and uh Newman just sort of looks at him and goes like that's the picture and like the fucking great stuff you know because I mean that it's like Paul you're the hottest man alive everybody loves your lemonade right why do you also go to like limon and drive a car for it right right like are you not satisfied and he's like I don't know there's something in me got

1:12:01a happy marriage you basically have an uninterrupted decades long like minted movie star streak you still keep on getting in these crazy cars right yeah uh the first draft comes in too dark um uh Newman's like I think this is too uh you did you have made him a nightmare piece yeah it's like he fell sitting dragged up to Golgotha wait a second uh so they're like look we're making a star vehicle the way uh score system puts is like we're making a suit for the man you know it's got to come out of Paul Newman like you can't just like right like all this like piece of shit dialogue like you have to imagine like Paul Newman will be saying like there needs to be like class yeah um and so you know they calibrate it and all that and it's interesting that like crews is not mentioned for a while it's like the most fascinating thing about reading about the making of this movie is this guy's in top gun the same like it comes out what four or five months earlier yeah uh so they hit the lottery in that sense right he is not in any way doing Tom Cruise things where he's like it's important that

1:13:05this happens to my character and it's important like that's all right which is all you hear might be the last movie where that happened and it's funny because like his rep is like after this is like oh he wants to work with uh verse do you have all these big right he wants to work with big and you figure he's the one who's like Paul let's get Marty you know or whatever like he's not he comes in later obviously uh you know risky business was big and predated this but it is fascinating that I think of this movie in his arc as being like this is him grabbing the torch and being like I'm on the run now here we go I'm I'm I'm I'm racing towards the fucking Olympics and uh this felt like the last time he was just like hired to do something I watched he was on Graham Norton during the pandemic like because I watched the clip and they were all sitting very far apart and so uh he told this story about doing what sounds like the aftermath of the werewolves of London scene where he's outside of the car and he's freezing the coat anecdote and the way he tells it it's not like

1:14:10and then of course Paul and I became best friends after I mean I know that they were close but it sounds like newbins like that kid you know like hey but it's just like you're the supporting actor in the Tom Cruise the most controlled man in the world has 10 anecdotes he will share there are 10 personal things he will say right and one of them which I feel like he only started sharing in the last 10 years because I've seen him do in a couple other places I know he did it on the fucking nervous podcast but the anecdotes that they're filming this thing outside and they call cut and immediately Paul Newman has like a pa come over and put a really warm coat he's gonna electrocute her yeah right and and Tom Cruise is like rubbing his arms and like freezing and Paul Newman says something like 54 pictures kid basically implying like I've learned how to make movies I know what I need and that Tom Cruise looks at it as this moment of like that's what I'm working towards not just the quality of the movies and the consistency of the run but to understand how to do this as a job

1:15:11you know and know every angle of what I need to be on top of yeah because he does his uh wardrobe fitting in the summer so he's like it'll be cool if I'm wearing a leather jacket and a t-shirt and it's like they're shooting in Chicago January. It's gonna be so hot. The story is that Paul Newman has the level of experience where he can do the math on every one of these things he's not just thinking creatively he's also going like well wait when is the scene gonna film and that's an exterior and this and that and I feel like Richard I think it would be good if I was inside the Cadillac for that night. chronologically that feels like the last story he shares in which there is anything aspirational in the Tom Cruise persona when he talks about anything he worked on after that it is just like I sat at the table and I said this is what we need to do right he tells the stories that are like I was a little boy and I would repeat movie dialogue while staring at the ceiling while my family life was depressing and then there's I look at Paul Newman and I go this is the guy I want to be and after that he is self-actualized it is fascinating that I I was saying to you he must have shot

1:16:16this before Top Gun because he still looks kind of funky in this but he shoots Top Gun first then shoots this and then has to go back and do reshoots for Top Gun there's the scene where he's coming out of the shower in Top Gun and that's because they had to wet his hair because he had grown it out the way he's like yeah yeah yeah and they shoot the loves scene in like total shadow for the same reason exactly like there's something like that but it's like he doesn't seem to know what Top Gun is about to do for him no no the way score says he puts it is like we're getting a little bit of money because of risky business like he's not an unfamous person this casting is closer to hiring miles teller for Top Gun because you're like he was good in whiplash right yeah not like this is clearly the guy Fox they get cruise aboard Fox turns it down Columbia turns it down this kind of crazy given the like the package or whatever Katzenberg and Eisner Disney grab it put it on you know it's gonna be a touch right this they've just taken over there after leaving Paramount but they make a Newman salary insurance against Corsese going over budget so like Corsese has such a reputation

1:17:20post New York New York and such that they're like even with all this you know even with hours being right yeah yeah um so he's got the big stars it's his first time he says working with a movie star like it's not like De Niro where like it's his friend like right it's different when it's a movie star you like forward she's like your brain what he puts is like right like I'm looking at a face that I've been looking at since I was 12 there's a thousand movies on his face uh Newman loves Corsese says he's got an incredible eye he's on you like a hawk you can't do like your mannerisms with around him you know what I mean like he he's like uh he's immediately like don't do that you know like or whatever and Newman's like right can't be lazy or what I can't like do whatever the the usual shit is I also say the best directions Corsese gave him was uh don't try to be funny right sure yeah as an overall and he was just like that's like a really smart mature direction um another right cruise connection you know Michael Chapman who is of course as he's cinematographer

1:18:22for like raging bull and stuff directed all the right moves so there's another reason stress as he had his eye on cruise yeah um and obviously everyone does their own pool playing you know because you know they they got to do it and obviously cruise gets so into it I was gonna say it is part of the cruise mythology is I feel like this is the first time you hear about him going turbo on rap though though the the jump fall shot is the one that an ex-curse does because that's the one that he was like I'm sure you could make this take days but it'll be like nine days to get one shot but also feels like that's the thing he regrets for the rest of his career that I couldn't I couldn't done it I couldn't figure it out I had more in me I could done it um you know uh Marty's parents are with him I don't really the Marty's parents just kind of travel around with them and he's obviously in Chicago yeah but I guess they're just they're yeah uh cruise like has dinner with them every night you know he really loves Marty yeah I mean that's just what he's like sauce good and they rehearsed the whole thing like newman's very into

1:19:28rehearsals they block all the scenes out they do like tons and tons of rehearsals basically like word for word so they're incredibly prepared uh and so they shot for like 10 weeks and they did it like you know no problem they didn't go over budget or time it was under it was under on both and it's the only 13 million under 14.5 it's the only time he did that in his career and it felt like he needed to do that to prove a point right um they wanted to shoot in New York but all the kind of classic interesting foolholes were kind of gone uh Toronto you know cheap city obviously but like way too clean is basically how they put it um and so they end up in Chicago uh they use uh St. Paul's Billiards Chris's Billiards Chris's Billiards Chicago's finest the North Center Bowl uh this famous old barf its Gerald's which I feel like is like still kind of a classic place that they they turned that into a pool room there's so many I mean there's that place what's it that storefront that's like Lincoln what you know like that's still there

1:20:32um they and they they do go to Atlantic City for one day uh to shoot the big tournament with all the uh you know did they shoot any of this tournament stuff on stages or was that all okay they staged most of it in Chicago's navy pier like like like but they did some you know kind of like establishing there's a uh strange relationship because this movie is kind of a road movie yeah because they're shooting it all in Chicago you're kind of like are they traveling traveling from the north side of Chicago to the south side of Chicago like driving um but I always just in my mind imagine it being like Cleveland Detroit you know Chicago one more stop at Atlantic City like Philly Atlantic City or something like that this is the second ballhouse movie ballhouse shot after hours JJ editorializing here our researcher says best best DP that of course has he ever worked with I think that's probably true yeah but also JJ your fire we don't pay you for your opinions um but uh you know there's a lot of stuff here about you know the kind of bounce lights he used I'm not going to go into all this come on now what do they call the um the when

1:21:35they the cameras that could go right behind a uh cue ball or a pool ball I I mean they I don't know but I love all that cameras oh yeah great name there you go uh they move the camera a lot like ballhouse is like I think out of every like seven out of every ten shots the cameras moving like is a tracking shot or moving shot or something like Marty loves to move the camera I love to move the camera and you're playing pool which is just it is a game where you just think about people just kind of like rotating around the table constantly right you know what I mean like there is a movement to it but they he's doing like all the Spielberg uh like coverage with camera movement so it'll be like push in Vince pan mozel back to Vince tilt down to the pool cue tilt up to mozel it's and you know what I mean it's like oh that's like seven shots but you just did it with movement which I think that's part of the under schedule under budget thing right that's always been a famous uh Spielberg thing that he's so forged in the failure of 1941 right that he adopts

1:22:41prepare so of style right for Raiders of just like I'm going to figure out on the day what's the quickest cleanest smartest way to do this um and then he holds himself to that standard for the rest of his career Scorsese obviously does not but it does feel like he strategically knows I got to figure out a way to compress this to to make everyone trust me again but those more thing kind of master shots are just exquisite it also we've talked about maybe it has been since Ali but how there's such a disproportionate amount of great boxing movies to other sports it's such a cinematic it part of it is that it's so contained and there's so few things you have to track and it's in such a manageable visual space a thing I'm sure we've talked about extensively on a raging bull episode but billiards is like an even tinier version of that you know it's basically a wide screen frame and you're just like it's bright colors it's crazy that actually the hustler works

1:23:46as well as it does in black and white it's such a strange sports movie this one because first of all I think I take it for granted that you know people would unnecessarily grasp at any given moment where they are in terms of the the scale the scales of who's winning and who's losing in a match because for one thing some of the times they're intentionally losing sometimes they're winning to set up the fact that they might lose it's rotation pool so it's like sometimes they're kicking ass but then a guy is like it's my turn you know like I I get to come in boxing is so simple it's like you can have never seen boxing before and be like I get it they punch each other until one guy falls down right and it's and it's like pool and the way he shoots pool it's like there are oftentimes where I'm like I wonder if this is the fifth rack yeah is it the ninth rack and like how like how it's so interesting that he can pull it off without ever being like I have to stop and explain everything that's happening here it's very relying on the actress performances in that way because you need to look to them as a guide of them playing what's the status of the

1:24:48game right now and are they working someone or not but it also means that basically you just need to depict trekk shots you just need to show us things that look impressive overlook unimpressive in a basic binary way and then it's helpful that like you can do these fucking crazy camera moves but actually you're just moving the camera two feet because you're tracking a very small ball in a very contained space and a shiny ball moving on felt is really cool it's really fucking cool and aren't the rules of nine ball pretty straightforward they are I think there's something to that versus it being a ball yeah where it's just like it's very simple if you get on a run and then you're able to be the one to get the nine ball in you win like it's just yeah I think a ball is also pretty simple a ball is just solid stripes I like to play one ball that feels like feeling the cleanest attract of just take one ball even leave the cue to the side but they say you just pick it up with your hand you drop it into the pocket game over they say in the movie that like nine ball is more action based yes it's faster it's like Texas hold them it's like they it's

1:25:53like the thing you created to make it feel more like a real sport not that it's not a real sport I'm not arguable but yeah I mean I've watched like I said I've watched televised snooge I've never really seen televised pool like I'm not really aware of like you clearly are not watching ESPN 2 late enough in the night yeah two and 90s yeah I feel like they were built on that yeah yeah like I don't know what what's the like state of professional pool playing these days I don't know actually like there was a I'm not being funny like there was a run there where there was being had less stuff and when they were just it's bowling and pool after sports centers like that's what we got but I don't remember the last time I I was like this is the most famous pool I was about to say like who right who's the best pool player whereas like in I can I can to run around yourself and baby like Stephen Hendry I can name like the greats nuker players of my childhood but I don't know who's good at pool like once in a while you'll see a bowling clip

1:26:55which is always fun like you know some guy me like that's why I'm the goat and you're like I guess that guy's the goat and those guys now all wear like Thanos gloves to bowl like just wait isn't that just like a cybernetic arm that's that loud obviously there's like the a britain has darts which is the funniest televised sport because everyone is morbidly obese and it's in a giant bar where every like the whole crowd is just hammered honestly though it's like maybe the greatest televised it's so good it's watching guys and it's like they're all named Ronnie you know and and like people are losing their mind 180 there's the guy who yells and the other god the crazy thing about snooker is it's always like best of 33 gay where you're like what's the score and he's like he's up 11 to 7 and I'm like and what does he need they're like I don't know 18 yeah it's like it's such a I don't understand who's going to see

1:27:56it in person you go to Sheffield it's called the Crucible the the place where they and it's it's crazy there's a packed crowd watching it it can't be a real country no I was gonna say also why does it feel like so many British sports are like durational to prove a point like people can play in about American baseball but like that's what you know what you know what we have enough listeners someone explain this because I don't know the answer is probably like what do you mean like a snooker game is 20 minutes like it has to be that I have no idea like I don't know all I know is I used to watch when I was a kid the game show the big break hosted by Jim Davidson who later became one of Britain's more prominent pro Brexit celebrities back in the day a hilarious light entertainer that was like a snooker game show that's how popular stucar wasn't Britain anyway okay I looked it up Carlo Biotto of the Philippines won the 2025 world pool association nine ball championship he he kind of looks like a badass I kind of like his maybe if we ever get

1:28:58a color of money where Vince is the old man Carlo couldn't be the vets like do you need to be in good shape to believe good at pool uh it needs to stand a lot you gotta back over you get good back need a good back do you need like you know some shoulder strength for sure right you got the professional video game players like get worse when they're older and you're like really and it's like yeah man like being young like your brain works better you know where it's like the thumbs fail even fuck this like you it is better when you're younger like I know we need to dig into the movie proper I just need to pick up this thread that's the artist dropped because I was thinking this while watching like if digger doesn't work just cruise go it's time to make the Vince legacy cool watching this it felt really obvious to me that if he didn't have new men no but he's the guy I don't understand it would just be like cool to have new men have the one scene where he's like kid you got it who would be the young then casting I don't know young

1:30:00young teller and Maverick yeah who who is it now I don't know I don't know who it is but I just was like of all the legacy he's talking about doing that days of thunder three you're talking about doing that really shouldn't do days of I agree that's not as huge miss especially post F1 there's no room for you here in your two old yep is there yeah is there another cruise like a sequel that yeah the other part of that is the cruise does genuinely love erasing and he said the Paul Newman's the one who got him into it on while filming this movie sounds like the kind of bullshit he'd say have you read the script for rain men yet let's get off the back now it's just also like a bunch of yeah many many yeah oh he's right he's he's had a lot of kids yeah they have to go collect all the rain men it's just such an obvious thing where like the color of money Oscar feels like shorthand for a kind of gold watch performance you know it becomes the representation for even what what true grit is of like what's the obvious kind of elder statesmen you are looking back on

1:31:05your legacy and sort of like your movie start um we got to give it to this guy Oscar when well to your point about him obviously taking a supporting role in being like in in some ways third chair on on this movie compared to Newman and Scorsese it's you not maybe not unique in his films but it is very it's it's very clear that like Vince is almost the villain of the end of this movie in some ways and that the movie frames it as like this is the problem with this is what we lost culturally yeah yes look at how unseemly these guys are and then it's like for the first two thirds of the movies he's just like regarding Newman yeah he gets mad at him a couple times but for the most part he's just like Eddie you're the you're the man like just show me the ways of the force you know like and it's it's so different from the way he now is so in touch with I want people to think this

1:32:06about me at this moment in the movie you know and then they have to think this is going to happen but they know I'm going to prevail you know so the fact that crews keeps making baton past movies where he refuses to pass the baton you know obviously there's the whole runner thing with mission impossible but then it's also what's fascinating about Maverick is that it's like no I'm not going to die I'm going to save Miles Teller the movie ends with me being like and I'm still fucking you like it yeah Maverick you did right it's not about me elevating the other guy yeah it does feel like I don't know if they announced tomorrow like he's got Benny Safdie or Josh Josh Safdie I guess is the more exciting pick right working on a Vince movie right do people get interested if it's the right chapter if it's the right writer yeah sure I mean this is the one where you're like well I could buy him playing pool yeah like versus days of thunder where it's like get out of the car Tom like you know like I'm trying I'm looking at his 80s it's funny it's like he's good in this movie right

1:33:13after this cocktail is an 88 so he doesn't make a movie in 87 yeah so cocktails his next film feels like what you're saying of the first time where he's like no I'm the best bartender right the arc of that movie is guy stumbles into a thing immediately comes better and everyone else in the world his challenges that no one will give him that credit basically yeah and then a woman dies but like so cocktail is apologies to Bill Simmons a terrible movie yeah uh man just a man of fun it's a good fun it's a dog shit move for the idiots stupid stupid I love it but it's fun yeah but he you know he's got that 80 80 balances it with rainman where it's like once again I'm working with a big director I'm opposite a bigger actor he in my opinion he steals rainman out from Hoffman I feel like that's sort of become the majority opinion of that's that's the performance at the time but obviously that's not the case didn't even get nominated how do people feel about rainman now we did as a rewatchable recently if you guys done it in a we never done levinson because he's one

1:34:14of those classic guys of like the latter half of his career you be like watching the day which I kind of like but but you'd be like okay if you want to rock the cash box yeah yeah I mean I don't know what like the one where Ben Foster is a boxer right that's an HBO on maybe we could skip that it's just a it's a really what's given weird movie yeah it's a very very watchable movie for sure but it's just like you're like us it's about a car salesman who has a little bit of money trouble and then finds out he has a brother right you the stakes of it are oddly low it's the thing about it is this obviously you could never do a movie like that today the Hoffman performances would now be seen as insensitive or whatever it's an incredibly moving movie just like you know just the gut you know the way it works I think most of the crews also oh it's good script but it's a good script it is crazy it's not a movie I've seen a lot I've seen like no it's crazy when you look at it and you're like everyone wanted to make that script there were so many versions of that movie with different a list actors and different directors where you're like you know the uh

1:35:16Spielberg almost makes it with Bill Murray in the Hoffman part like people were like tripping over themselves to get the chance to make this film and then it sweeps the Oscars and it's the highest grossing film of its year it sure was and so like I guess that's part of the cruise touch at that point and then the next year he does born on the 4th of July which I feel like is the moment where it's like okay you're a certified great actor but then he follows it with like days of thunder far and away if you could mend the firm interview with the vampire mission impossible all out of like very sort of sort of crowd forward movies like he doesn't make another really like I mean I guess far and away is trying to be a serious movie yeah and I think all those movies sorry I was just I got excited a few good men like a sequel the last bunch a bunch of great people well you're going more yeah well there's a lot of great people in the military yeah that's the argument for the movie nothing excites me more than the sound of a uh look nickels

1:36:17and still alive yeah here's the retired Guantanamo you know it's gone through a couple of iterations and I was gonna stame you know rebound it like you know I was gonna say sorkin legacy are the scariest words currently plaguing the modern movie landscape he's up to no good but then I'm realizing that's that's another example of it's not fincher doing the legacy well with an entirely different cast but it is sorkin making his own legacy to do the punch on that yeah yeah oh right we were talking about that off mic we're saying how weird it is that he too is the same guy making a movie with new cast uh as the same characters recasting every role yeah a few good men obviously Rob Rhiner recently died that is tragic that probably makes a few good men like a sequel even less likely uh also what would it be about also what are you what what are we doing here apparently there are still lawyers do the judge checks yeah the truth social fear and sees what

1:37:21Trump has said and makes his decision like I mean by the time this episode comes out maybe the social reckoning trailer is out there almost definitely that movie is by all accounts like 90% courtroom it sounds like that the the just of it he's really good at that stuff you know or like he knows how to but that might be what if you're a few good men legacy will might be a few bad wedges listen Tom Cruise is a Jack Tom Cruise is a judge advocate general in a few good men yes Jack as we all know NCIS is based on Jack is a spin-off technically spin-off for the TV show Jack we all know this the like a sequel is them on tangle the media rights of NCIS in a court oh that would be fun and it's just kind of like wait and this counts to like a little cool J's testifying for some reason right you know just like digging into all of this now there's the NCIS spin-off that's young Mark Harmon that's created by Mark Harmon's son but Mark Harmon's son doesn't play he was recast young Mark Harmon even though he played young Mark Harmon on and sad flat neck that's all I'm saying is Chris O'Donnell gonna play the key for Sutherland roll have like

1:38:26you're really like Maga kind of like like somewhat coded right where you're like we're you what were you doing uh no uh that's um let's talk about the color money let's talk about the color money oh my god it opens like many great films do with Martin Scorsese the director doing voice over yeah he's not a character in the film yeah just being like let me explain the thing to you uh the most grotesque and also the most beautiful image of a cigarette where you're like I gotta have that immediately I'm just also like want to smoke and drink so bad look at that ash falling off of it that's what goes to your lungs this is the worst thing that we've ever done as a former smorko that this is triggering you want to go to me and need me want to drink in smoke so bad I never smoke to cigarette my life movies like this I'm just again I'm like I need to move into a pool hall I need to become addicted to brown liquid that makes my head smell I was too paxed it was like this needs to be a mandatory road trip thing we're like I like some old head

1:39:29and like a 20 something have to like be linked up and it doesn't even have to be like that I need to learn how to be a pool hustler but they have to learn some but I just want to like scum apprenticeship yeah scum apprentice would be a great franchise yeah interesting interesting a band has a franchise who's been trying to launch for children called scumbed friends yes okay mm-hmm look it's a big 10 you know we could have g-rated stuff but we could also then scumbed apprentice is like we're going in and we're learning about hustling and friends and scumbed friends is sort of that's metaphorically what it's about that we should not cast judgment on the s comedy out in society but it's literally a physical manifestations of like I'm a professional new Chris would get this I'm a professional pool player I say to a woman in a bar yeah and she's like oh so you're like a low life then below that is like I'm a professional pool player who often pretends to be bad and so I can score money off of people and maybe I'm gonna get night outside

1:40:34where it's like wait you found a scumnier version of professional pool player to be what were you not satisfied just being in pool all the other thing about how appealing the world of this movie is to us my friend Alejandra had a joke he used to tell about where he would refer to liquor as magic water that makes you sick and for how much this movie is about drinking it's a liquor salesman and it makes it look fucking awesome you're just like like putting glasses into people's mouths being like taste that sweet sweet whiskey but it's also this isn't like madman drinking this is like you see like oh right the magic water makes you sick this guy looks bad he's depressed I don't like East Coast for five days I haven't had a vegetable and it's not even like focused romantic like self-punishing bookowski drinking it's actually just like no but I can feel my body slowly dying just doing like three days of this and that's what he does every morning like he'd probably are no mornings because all he does is get up at 4 p.m. you feel this movie in your time

1:41:36and meets with a woman who's inexplicably wearing a kimono and is like try this old McDowell it's like I mean he's bonded magical water is like you said in your lips it's the the Mulaney joke of like the bathroom is a sterling Cooper I'm not watching this movie being like I wonder what kind of shit Paul Newman takes but like the second you start thinking about it like right you're like right we're not watching six hours of the guy on the john with a paper like which is must be built they're eating at diners and white cow's balls and they and they smoke and drink all day yes the hottest any man has ever been but in that way same as slap shot yeah he is he's correctly depicted as like as a like battered piece of shit and yet he's still the hottest thing you've ever seen in the verdict like this air in the verdict you're like oh no like I mean and like he is so fucked up yeah and in the verdict he's also like I'm an ambulance

1:42:37he's like I got my apartment which is also my office that would be really nice one it's like you're like air pool player that's cool in the verdict you're like wow you you suck there's like the first time you said you're gonna put out like cool glasses you know the good first time you see the first oh no you first watch it you're just like boy are there gals out there like Charlotte ramping would go for guys like this because that can open up a lot of windows for me and then you realize it's a scam but he's doing things right she's the hustler in that movie I think on on the the big pic legal draft I call that the greatest burnished wood movie of all time this one has a but this is in on the podium with that it's in there yeah yeah I I asked for and did not receive one of the most unique creations in furniture history which is the pool hall chair okay you wanted to podcast from oh yes yes yes you sent us a photo it's this the screen shot elevated wouldn't throne yeah that overlooks so that you get like a good angle on that technically known as a spectator chair

1:43:42it I was gonna say it almost looks like a lifeguard chair or like a fucking or ten or like a director's chair in a weird time yeah and it also looks a little bit like a shoe shine chair but like the way that in that opening sequence uh when Vince is playing Julian Carman's there we're meeting all the main characters he kind of just saddles up there and is like I'm gonna stretch my legs out and put my arm out over like the other side of the chair but I'm looking down on Carman and I like where did you fucking find this stuff I mean I guess it's still this was made at a time when they just still had those places look like they did I think so they just in frozen in amber also man Newman just fucking knew how to strike a pose and he could do it in a way where felt natural it wasn't like he was doing some overly expressive John Wayne thing but that guy could just fucking sit and hold the frame and just know like if I just lean like 10% of my weight over to this side um the king he is retired uh he's a liquor salesman he lives in

1:44:43Chicago yeah um but he still hangs out of pool halls all the time and he's a day younger player he wants to watch yeah he likes to watch yeah he's got a definitely not at all long suffering girlfriend played by Helen Shaver no who becomes like one of TVs yeah she's got a greatest driver yeah yeah that oh I didn't really yeah wow she has a huge directing like she directed like trips to the penguin like she's still to this day uh one of the most awarded TV directors yeah she's yeah she's working hard uh but yes no tough break for her uh yeah dating him sure yes um and he's the player he's staking is uh John Tataroh who raised calm cool collected uh just uncooking and getting just back to where he's like a guy who likes to play video game when the phone when the phone rang yeah John Tataroh says it's like hey we want you to play a little rat piece of

1:45:43shit he's playing us wiggle is what it's like do you like my character cool traits he's like yeah you have a rock a coke in your nose he looks like fear from inside out so goodness he's great he's great he's always good in these movies like incredible I know it's in his career it's insane how he's already shorthand casting yeah in a way that is so good the audience is just like boom oh don't have to try to type conic Tom Cruise immediately I think the first time I saw him was Miller's crossing it I was like you fucking piece of shit fucking it's just like this Miller's crossing quiz show that kind of trifecta yeah just being like there's something I don't like about you I I rewatch quiz show I guess after Redford died it does feel like a movie I watched once a year and every time I watch it I just don't understand how he didn't like win the Oscar that year let alone get nominated but because it's the medishextual one where it's just like even if you're the best we just kind

1:46:48of there's something about you I feel like he's he's settled into his own interesting elder statesman mode to own yeah I mean like what's he no longer has that energy like him in the Batman where it's like I can play like an icy mob boss right with like you know shaded glasses and people like yeah of course you're you are an elder statesman like you fit and he's like hot now too you're also like all tutorials hot uh he's got a he directed a film is coming out soon right like the only pick pocket New York or something no no no a Seagun directed that he directed but he's sure as it is but I've heard it to tourism credible on that like a friend of mine who saw that movie was like this the movie is good this is like the tutorial career lifetime achievement obviously he has directed many a great film such as the Jesus rolls are you aware so I because I I brought this up to someone else recently who was astonished by this news the Jesus rolls which of course was the Jesus uh sentana uh sidequel to big Lebowski that he made without the participation of the uh the coen brothers with their blessing the passive bless if we don't have to show up you could do whatever you want that

1:47:55movie is a remake in addition to being a sidequel to big Lebowski it is him transposing that character onto a straight remake of going places the movie hitmaker recently called out the depard to know Bertrand billiard yep 100 percent it is like it's a sex challenge road trip movie it is credited as like based on going places okay yeah I want to remind everyone that the character of the Jesus in the big Lebowski is a sexual predator yeah convicted child molest yes yeah and John Tuturo was like you know it'd be good make a whole movie out of that guy and have morning on the road is it his redemption no it's like him and his friend like daring each other to do weird sex stuff just one of the weirdest things ever made people were like why aren't you guys covering that on patreon I'm like I don't know I want to be able to sleep it so you're staking Vincent Laurier right no sorry no Vincent is Thomas Tom Cruise at what's taking Julian right

1:48:58Vincent kicks his ass and what's the video game he's obsessed stalker is that is that a real video it apparently influenced the the actual video game doom uh but I it to me it just looks like spy hunter like pole position or some 80s you know car racing game and now where would you guys rank this in the the tron franchise I think I like the original tron more than this but this one's better than aries or legacy what was the video game in last starfighter was it just called last starfighter it's called starfighter starfighter yeah that was always pretty sick to me but yeah stalker seems pretty yeah it's weird that he's like my my like motor skills are so elevated because of stalker like that doesn't really that's not how it happens but I'm sure it's a Disney thing but I just genuinely love that there's a tron cabinet in this and obviously the tron cabinet was like real and was more successful than the movie and stay in our kids for years but it does make it feel like this is a movie that takes place in the world of tron that would be so incredible yeah uh so he

1:49:59you know Vincent uh he's he's got charisma he's got a hot girlfriend in Carmen played by Mary Elizabeth master Antonio I don't know where she was in her career at this point like right it's her second movie she's in Scarface yeah yeah okay so Scarface is her first she apparently is an extra in the king of comedy but I doubt like Marty from that no it must have been just from from Scarface she's I'm just gonna say it uh total spoke show she is she's so good in this movie she's she's an actress I like a lot uh generally but I feel like she is attractive in this she's activating things in me watching this that I don't usually feel from her performances she fucking rules in the abyss yeah when she comes back when he gives him the balabushka uh but then like newman's like drive him crazy like go go be be really remote and then she comes back in packing her pack of cigarettes I was just like well just take my life like fascinating because it's like I was gonna say it's

1:51:03take my life it's fascinating because it feels like he's having a love at first sight moment with them with just their dynamic witnessing the whole kind of operation of what's happening the energy around them the potential I think there's also like not not too hidden like there's a longing for sexual vitality uh because he's talking omelets and these guys are are are just like she's she's talking about like the loudness of his break you know and he's watching him you know with the stick in his hands and dancing around the table and doing his samurai sword stuff but in your point there's also like a relapse element yeah right like watching torter to turro play bilgares is is safe for him it's like drinking a non-alcoholic beer right it's sort of just like you know what this was such a structure of my life that I need a version of this for the routine for the habit that isn't actually harmful to me and habit forming and then he witnesses like the uncut shit it's it's right there

1:52:11and he's just like oh fuck I remember being that guy what if I was her what if I was managing someone like him like every angle of it is so activating to him isn't it also it's like because they're a package he's like you guys just hustle so well together right yeah because you guys are so good which is part of what he misses is the symbiotic nature of it you know in the hustler the original film is so much about that dynamic the sort of tragedy of him fucking up the partner he had who he valued and felt safe with and then getting fucked by the new flashier partner who like destroys his life and that pushed him away from all of it right and it's like yeah part of him you know having this long term stake in Tatarou is like how extreme is that ever going to get well I say the the economics of it are also kind of interesting because inflation aside like they're they're passing 20s back and forth right like I don't know yeah he's like if I when they talk about going

1:53:11on the road he's like we could make five grand you know which is a lot of money in 1986 but it's I don't know if it's down payment money yeah that's not my one last score yeah so it's kind of like this is it's a grind like and it's just like you're trying to find fun in the grind but I don't also he seemingly has money he's like seemingly well enough off yeah yeah like do you have like a bank account yeah exactly so what happens I mean they pretty quickly go to he's like I got to take a dinner he goes yeah brother there's a whole dinner and he does that whole like kind of scam basically yeah like I'm gonna take this girl she's gonna reject him in 30 seconds I walk I hear muscle like the hustler like this opening scene the whole like Helen Shaver trying to sell the liquor the Tatarou noticing them starting to talk to master Antonio like button holding her

1:54:14all of that is basically a sustained like 20 minute chunk of the movie much like the hustler where you're just really staying in this space and the dynamics of all of it there's also like that's where you start to get the rhythms and the intonations of the script and I do love all of the lore about them working price to the bone and sending him back and back and back to just tighten it and tighten it and price is talked about like I you know you I would write this stuff and I would be like this sounds incredible in my head and then they would say like it's too written it's too written and so there is this like feels like the classic novelist screenplay problem yeah but a lot of that opening sequence that you're talking about so much of it is just them giving each other looks so like when when Vincent is like let's just play play let's just play for play no because I think the money's getting in in your head and Newman just like looks up and he's like what the fuck did he just say but he doesn't say like no one's ever talks like that in the pool hall you know it's just a look but it tells you everything and when Vincent is asking

1:55:16that Carmen is like Vincent because she's like we do this as a job like this is how we make money you can't be throwing away games against Julian here because he's $20 rack it's just like such a perfect setup for that world you can just know without knowing what you're dealing with it's also the classic movie star thing you know insecure actors in sort of leading positions you always hear more dialogue more jokes more awesome moments and the guys and gals who are just completely minted are like take all this out I can sell that in a look I don't need this paragraph to explain it give me the three line the three word version of that line or let me truly just do it in a glance and like Newman knows that yeah I wonder what the longest stretch of uninterrupted speaking from Felsen is in this movie it can't be is there a monologue in this movie really I mean there's him in the car with cruise but that's pretty sure I would say it's after four switterker that's that's when it is right where he's been brought low right but yeah I love that this movie doesn't translate

1:56:22at all to that point that you feel like the worst version of this movie even though it would have a kind of trashy joy to it is one where Newman's like get I'm gonna teach you the ropes and then he breaks down every single thing even just the way he starts saying at this dinner scene which to your point is very sexually charged the whole thing feels like is he sexually coveting cruise is he trying to cut cruise is he trying to be the third he's also sort of like trying to show his sexual prowess through the scam of him pretending he's picking up the woman like all that stuff but and that's Lorraine Bronco's sister hey hey yeah so Bronco yeah huh who knew and she's Vito's wife in the sopranos I don't think I knew that I am realizing we're finally making good on our promise that we have to cover good fellas on this podcast because this podcast has been so damaging to Lorraine Bronco where we have only covered her worst performance wait apart from

1:57:23medicine man what's the other one no keyo forgot about that Chris how how recently have you watched Roberts and make us this Pinocchio when was I actually have never seen you did a rewatch once I never said one out you mean you haven't seen it yet this hell but I was listening to um today I was just to fearless yeah and I just wanted to say Zemeckis wise I I will sometimes watch flight on a flight that's absolute I'm I'm like because the action is the gym I'm like you do you like navigate to it on the Instagram equipment I have saved on my phone I was doing down there like they're like we don't have that movie you maniac and I like fine let's crack the iPad open you hold on to an iPod video just to have flight in your pocket at all time but I do I roll it so I walk it upside down you're right when he's rolling it um no she she plays a seagull in the Zemeckis Pinocchio that's an added character that is horrendous yeah it sounds like she is dying she's a great actor but it's her being like the fuck is going on I mean there was all

1:58:30the money we had Pinocchio and we've like maybe there's a third one I'm forgetting but she's probably so thrilling unpleasant in that and in medicine man yeah both of which are just horrible miscastings in Ilbegotten films yeah where we've had to be so rude to her and we've said like I think we must do Marty at some point just to put some respect on the main broadcast man yeah I'm glad we'll get to do I don't know how many other movies we'll even ever like hit with her she doesn't have that we do got span sand we'll get even cowgirls get the blues yeah that's that might be it like I mean we're not yeah maybe we do Richard Donner radio fire oh sure yeah she didn't make a ton of oh you know what we'll do Penny Marshall we will a penny for that one was she's like get pregnant like I didn't see that movie since it's a guy I can cause with boys ride on bicycles along they look at a find it but it's like he's it that good fellas broke her a little bit of like you can

1:59:35scream your head off yeah moving it makes sense just put a revolver in your underwear she's funny because she rarely ever raises her voice in the sopranos like at all no she's also quiet for long stretches of good fellas he uses that as a super power yeah and she has good reason to scream in good fellas stressful yes and also everyone's fucking screaming except for D'Aire. At the dinner scene and I just like even the the sexual energy of him propositioning her for dinner and being like what do you mean you want to take us out like she clearly at first views it as this old man is hitting on me and I don't know if I'm interested or not but then doesn't understand what he wants out of the two of them together uh he's like he's a thoroughbred like you make him run you make him feel good I teach him a right play because I think to her she's like if it's about the pool then why is he even bothering with me right and if it's about me then why is because he wants because he has to construct this entire like she's getting bored of you working

2:00:39at Toys or Us or Child World or Child World of course I'm thinking of reviving child world by the way what do you guys think that's where the third jesus antenna movie happened oh no you see something like this and you're like what child wants to go in there like private equity before there was private equity like we just get a kid world or a child world even could you imagine the fucking field a fox news would have a child world yeah the conspiracy is just like yourself camped outside yeah yeah I just the only other thing on the dinner is um shout out to whoever was the uh like the food food art person in this because it's because it's like the chocolate mousse the cup of coffee the after the digest if it's all like a raid there at the perfect level of like I had three bites of that I had a sip of this I had a sip of that like it's the we've had a big long steakhouse dinner and like Paul Newman 50 pictures kid shit like he knows exactly how

2:01:43to eat on camera what to eat when to take the bites for emphasis to the point of the movie not feeling the need to hold your hand or translate things the way he talks about like you're quite a character kid and cruises like yeah right and he's like no I mean a negative way you're a flake but if it's hard to be a flake in this and that and you're just like great I know enough I don't need you to spell this out to me I understand what you're saying I understand there's more to it if I dug deeper it to this lingo but let's just we're off to the races this guy knows everything uh-huh and they just want to be next to him and my not constant is like you know raw putty like he's going to get molded but we're not going to watch him do like training montages with that there's one montage in the film it's well deployed yes it's much later like yes there is no point in he's like an you know he got to pop the balls one to nine as we all remember or whatever um okay so they go to a lantic city right the next the next chunk is the lantic city right well it's leading up to no yeah they do a whole road yeah right they're on the road they're ending up in a lantic city right but

2:02:46that's um it's like hey why don't we go on the road couple weeks we're gonna make a couple grand and then we're gonna go to a lantic city and all the games outside of the tournament or where you make all your money right we'll get in my caddy i get how much does he get like 60% of their weddings or something but he's but he's hanging for the lodging and food yeah and and by the way in the hustler it's 75 that's George C Scott's deal with him right i do think it's important that he's offering a better deal than the one he was given yeah they should have gotten George C Scott back they should he's so alive at this point right yeah uh yeah because his last or oh no i'm sorry he was federally barred from entering any pool halls the drunken man in the world that's right his last film was uh angus i think which is like 96 right yeah heaven seem you as Marshall's full him out of any of angers he goes in right well no it's just more like they're like George C Scott went in a bar filming his spindle eight days like it's just i mean that was like

2:03:47the vibe back to George C Scott went best actor once or twice just one okay just for patten yeah he was nominated for the hustler yes it's i think it's part of why gleeson doesn't win is there's two hustlers supporting actors yes we were because we were talking about this the other day i was calling out crazy it is that gleeson also never won an Emmy and your point was well the honeymoon is only ran for one season right i mean like he was nominated twice before for i did research on this yeah like Jackie Gleason show which of course had like the Ralph crampton sketches in it like the originator producing nominations writing nominations acting on the universe ran for one year and also the right i always thought honeymooners was like 500 episodes that's what everyone thinks like it was like one of those like i love lucy types show yes but yeah it 30 episodes for one year whatever um the other thing is he was nominated i think in 1952 for best comedian which was just a category it was a comedy special actors no for the Emmy it was like best host and best comedian and i think he lost to the ranteem maybe i wouldn't put it past the asker i mean what about best comedian they say that yeah

2:04:50yeah i think it's kind of what the quote when it's fried to do right you know i'd like it to work um the thing i was going to say is just to tell Ben because i think you would appreciate this for she's got most ordinary man in the world uh uh from the hustler that's his first nomination his first nomination is for anatomy of a murder oh he's second is for the hustler refuses the nominee this is the thing there's a big note on the Oscars for that year which is George C Scott refuse the nomination he refused to accept it as valid George C Scott was very anti award show he was just like it's acting shouldn't be a competition and this is ridiculous never showed up anytime they nominated to him he was like fuck off so he just publicly was like fuck that but he wasn't like i'm i'm not gonna show up he was like i call bullshit on your whole so he would tell you we reject the nomination and they would then give it to like the next alternate no no they just were like well you're nominated he's like well i refuse they're like too bad go on a Wikipedia and i db it always has like parenthetical George C Scott didn't show up refused

2:05:54the nomination right and then he wins for patent in 70 and obviously does not show up and then he was nominated once more for the hospital that's i couldn't remember if he also wanted for the hospital but yeah no you know you know you make it maybe the attitude of the one type of patent where they're like look you're one of the greatest actors ever and you just were in this movie that's winning best picture and you're so good in it and he was like i refuse and they were giving it to anyway George C how funny would it be if he showed up for the hospital Oscars and was sitting there like really nervous with his like he's fucking good I regret not going and giving a speech so all right color money come on the first pool he tries to take them to is now just like a furniture like that's the only place there's something to that i've just showing that he's like an old man now you're an artifact yeah now you when you watch the tap room that's what's called right and then when you watch it you're kind of like at what point do these people start playing one another right like at what point is Mary Elizabeth master so it's Carmen starting to think about well how

2:06:59will we get out how are the wheels right why are we giving him this percentage and what point is he like i'm using vinson as a mechanism to like get myself back into this long play exactly but like I don't think that the the pool hall that never opened but that leads to I believe the next place is the he's playing the old man with the old man with the trac and it's like kind of a shitty almost like vf w and that's the fight where he's just like family god damn it yeah in a place this pretends to be his dad yeah who's disappointed yeah when does he lecture master in tonia i feel like that's pretty early on when she's kind of like sitting around brawl is that is they've arrived already at bill cobs house of house of the holy after cruises gotten the shit kicked out of him yeah and he goes in and they this is the most kind of like um i think legible like pool hall where they walk in and they're like that's the best guy but that's the richest guy and if you beat the best guy the richest guy won't

2:08:02want to play you but if you fumble around for a while the richest guy might get curious and then we're working with thousands of dollars but moselle you're just playing this guy for 20 bucks a throw and uh it's got i got cops the fuck up so goodness i know he also just basically doing a paragraph of dialogue with a look yeah in this yes i mean that that man could really sell a a hundred years of life with a just like a glance uh he's the he's the owner of the owner it's said he has fucking hand in the world yeah and he's he's also the um the magical janitor in Hudson Croxie but he's in eight thousand things but this is the senior referring to is when Newman goes into the motel room and she's in her underwear and a flannel shirt tied around her stomach and he goes keep the shirt nice touch yeah and he says you know where's the ball of bush good yeah and she's like well you went out like and you let him and he has to go out the other

2:09:08the other thing with the the scene uh bend you know a lot of the hustler which I assume you haven't seen the original you probably like you would love it I just I've rent I didn't get time no I know I'm just saying like you'd probably dig a lot of it's five yeah the movie is basically equally a very tragic love story it's got a very very very dark romantic hyper hyperloreous sort of a very broken woman they're two kind of broken people who find each other in their dysfunction and uh the the way he's talking to Mary Elizabeth master Antonio in the scene where he's clearly attracted to her but he's also saying like and would you dress like this if any man walked in here and what if it was a guy like this it's all kind of like fascinating not overstated echoes of him uh still struggling to process the tragedy of uh the original phone yes there there is a whole situation in that movie of men and sexual violence and you kind of this is the first time where

2:10:10Cobb mentions that you get at least it just a little bit of sense of the legacy of this guy and they they I think that's the first time where they refer to him by his nickname yeah and there's this is also the first time he plays pool in the movie is when he's playing with Vincent just to just to hit the ball hits balls and to like draw a little bit of the crash and yeah um welcome alive the uh which I guess kind of brings us to where wolves and I wanted to ask you guys about this I think I've I this is an idea that like I I I'm obsessed with is the the flight of the Valkyrie's problem in a movie when it peaks to or when you peak it yeah minute 55 yep and when if if anything was better than this it would be like the greatest movie of all time yeah I will say this this film has an incredible ending yes like literally like the last two minutes of this film you're like hell yeah but yes

2:11:14this is tough to talk this moment here it's also interesting because I fly the Valkyrie's problem is the exact right way to put it yes there are movies where it's like I love apocalypse now I of course always stop watching about it's not like all movies usually great films peak at the ending you go through history and you're like what's the best scenes sometimes it's the opening sometimes it's the middle sometimes it's here or whatever it is a distinct thing of a movie hitting a level of transcendence where you're just like this is as good as shit gets I wouldn't rather be anywhere else in the world right now I could watch this forever and you feel them sort of like not fully successfully dismount off of that the movie doesn't comfortably transition you from that high into something that feels equally satisfying or even if the movie store remains excellent you're just like I am thinking about how much better I felt 20 minutes ago though he has um I'm sure

2:12:15you guys will talk about all of them throughout the series a series of moments in his movies that remain transcendent despite the level of analysis so you can watch the coke Copacabana Warner or you can watch Where Will's of London or you can watch like all these different scenes and you can just be like I can watch this and think about every single thing that has to happen for this shot to work or I can just listen to the music and watch the guys I can just five yeah and it it never the magic never goes away even once you know what the trick is good fellas is an interesting comparison point because it has like four of these and is the problem that if you have multiple scenes at that level of transcendence it evens out you have multiple tent poles that are elevating us and bringing us down versus if there's just one kind of peak moment at the middle that is so perfect but I feel like I can watch the fucking shine box scene 8,000 times never get tired of it but when that scene ends and the movie continues if I'm watching good fellas

2:13:17and full I'm not disappointed I'm not like can we rewind back to shine I was rewinding this I was literally just kind of like going like let me go back to the beginning of this one more time just when he hits though the line his hair is perfect and you realize that Tom Cruise is like it's not just being played over the scene he's in it like the song is being played in the room there's also early Robbie Robertson like dub master stuff going on here where the Robbie stuff in the show the score is excellent it goes from first of all like they're playing but well first of all in the script it's James Brown so that's it's supposed to be James Brown wow was a lot of well I was wondering is the perfect choice I know like like that's the mario you're the difference between Scorsese and Richard Price Richard Price like hey he's listening to fucking James Brown and then Mark Scorsese like what have we did but the he's brown song would it like the big payback no it's faster it was I can't remember what it is I have the script on the laptop I look for it but the uh die it's like diagenics so it's like

2:14:20playing through a PA system at the pool hall and they're playing Clapton and then when they cut to werewolves it's Paul Newman driving down to the pool hall to meet them and in the opposite lanes or whatever whatever sound design choice they made the car horns are in time to the beat of the song and you're like who thinks of this that's the like with the fucking song yes I'm a huge foreign Z-Bong guy I don't know if I ever talked about this I don't think so are you a you guys pro warren's I think it's that one album his that I really the second album the self titled yes yeah that is the greatest rock album like he's just such a unusual guy there is nobody like this career so weird uh wait excitable boy is the album you're talking about right excited boy's his third album which has werewolves have landed on it which is a good album his second album Warren Z-Bong is the greatest rock album of the 70s it is the best the one that begins with

2:15:22Frank and Jesse James ends with Desperado some of the eaves it's basically like hanging out all night in an L.A. bar the last song it's four in the morning and you're like we should all kill ourselves it'll be so great what are they be his first album then his first album is called one a dead or alive okay and it's like you know it's got some stuff but like Warren's even he never topped it like the second album like he made music for another 50 years well yeah I kind of became the werewolves of London guy the last album when he the wind which is really good and his and his letter in the line of like captain yeah enjoy every sandwich stuff and all that which like I you know that was all very profound I'm not like shitting on it have you guys ever heard or seen Adam Sandler doing werewolves of London no no so they you know what I can imagine it he's going oh but he like crushes it there's that thing with Sandler where he's an incredible singer yeah but it feels like he's almost embarrassed by how beautiful a voice he has so even when especially when does this comedy music he kind of like does a comedy voice on top of it uh and and other

2:16:28things where he's sung but then there were like the scenes and wedding singer where people are like this is dubbed right he's not this good of a crooner and all of it's real when uh Zeevan died they did a tribute album called uh enjoy every sandwich which was his quote from his final letterman interview and Sandler did werewolves of London as a recording but also performed it live on letterman and it's incredible wow I think you're sort of like oh what he's having fun I can imagine yeah yeah but typical doing like werewolves of London but he just sings the shit out of it uh it's also my highly recommended uh the song is awesome it I also love that cocktail is the beginning of and I guess it starts in Top Gun but it's only after the success of Top Gun that crews identifies this in Top Gun it feels more reflective of the Brookheimer Simpson worldview and then crews takes it with him until the couch jump roughly early 2000s let's say late 90s uh Tom Cruise movies are

2:17:31primarily about a guy who is the fucking best at something either he's always been the best or he's been immediately coming to be a guy he becomes the best so quickly right and people doubt him they're like hey hot shot too fast too much you're feeling yourself like take it down a peg and he's like fuck you I'm actually I'm the only one who can save us I'm better than you think I am and I'm gonna prove you wrong there's like a distinct lack of learning in in a kind of like peak Tom Cruise movie star movie and part of what's so electrifying of the werewolves of London scene is you're like this guy is going to crash you're watching a guy who's just like feeling himself way too hard when he starts doing the fucking karate moves you know him singing along as you said that he's like making the lyrics about himself in a way and you're watching Newman watch him and be like this guy doesn't understand how much suffering he has ahead of him in his life he also but like he's so bad at

2:18:31it's the flake thing it's like he's so bad at throwing or at like sandbagging so that they can entice this guy because he's beating Mozel one handed he's like I'm I'm just fucking dancing around the table and Mozel sits down like he's like I know I'm not gonna hit again you know like and like that's where he chooses amount of like you're losing us money right like you're yeah if you if you're this good no one wants to play or no one wants to you're losing you're making money on this game we're losing money on the next five games right everyone else who's standing around watching you is never gonna fucking get off the way he does the good it's the it's the incredible like paternal figure thing where he'll he yells at him and then he's like Vincent getting the car you're like a high school girl got felt up at a drive in you know like Ben the hustler is like very existential and the main thing in the movie is this guy is really good even the elder statesman are kind of acknowledging like like and like a year he might be the best in the world but there's this early scene where George C Scott calls him a loser after he's like

2:19:35one and is just sort of like fundamentally you're a loser like you have the mentality of a loser and what he's calling out is a certain vulnerability of this guy so badly needing to be seen as the best and that desperation even though he doesn't do this kind of peacocking even though he is good at like throwing people off there's he wants it a little too badly that's what undoes him when the force winner character and color of money beats him is he's like basically like I've uncovered the old wound of where you're just like you're you're a dupe because without fully spoiling it where the hustler ends is he experiences this like tremendous tragedy and at the end he shows up and he's like I'm a winner you're a loser basically because I've lost everything and I'm hollowed out now inside like I don't feel the stakes of losing I have nothing left to lose which makes me invincible and you see the Jackie Gleason character who is the best in the world look at him and be like fuck this guy's dangerous now you know he doesn't even try to step up to him and so there is this whole

2:20:35feeling of Newman lashing out at him being like this guy doesn't understand that like eventually something in his life will humble him that he is going to be hollowed out and he is peacocking so much more than I did at my peak that like this fall is going to be fucking brutal and it's it's yes the the force wittaker thing is it hits him so hard because he Newman thinks he is decades past being able to care that much right it's not just that he got hustled it's it's how it hurts well he gets hustled at the thing that he says he's the expert right exactly he gets he says like pool excellence it's not about excellent pool it's about being a student of human moves and he just misses the forest wittaker's plan you know he thinks he's just he's got another guy that he's going to take 40 bucks off of or eight bucks off I can't see the first on the trees I mean it's kind of vital literally he literally can't see the forest through the tree well that is so true and but like it is kind of vital in a way to me because I am like how does this economy work like how can there be this many people who you can hustle

2:21:39enough to continue eating food but for sure and it's like you know what fucking sometimes this shit happens even to supposedly like wise guy force but it also has an entirely different style yeah totally yeah that he he would be duped by him because he's not like I used to be like I was working at a medical school like participating in lab experiments like he seems like a complete break yeah he's got a totally different backstory he's got a totally different demeanor and part of it is that forest wittaker is such a unique performer uh you're like I mean is there anyone like for us? I don't want to go before I can ask you something do you think I should lose some weight it's like you're asking for him but yes yes but it's right and like even in that moment you're like is this still some part of like some fucking mind game or is this just him spiting him to be like on top of it I'm still going to pretend like I'm just sort of an idiot savant uh or is it like a genuine moment of vulnerability being like hey now that I beaten you and I maybe

2:22:44have your respect can you tell me do you think losing weight would help my hustle like there's there's a read on it like that but he's yeah kind of like it's the Jersey swap moment after words where he's like you know yeah like can I can't hate like I know you're an expert or you're an old hand of course what a girl is just kind of like like a universal monster where you're like this guy who is so intimidating and scary and sad simultaneously just always feels so tragic and so vulnerable and is a guy who feels like he's being explosive and loud even when he's like literally whispering is this platoon year 86 is a platoon so he does he's so those are two things before this his only credits are uh fast times something called tag the assassination of the Nick Castle movie which I think is a tiny part and uh vision quest the uh Matthew Modine movie he's got a tiny part that we talked about this in the fast times episode though he gets a couple parts early on and he's like I don't know enough about acting and basically pulls himself out of TV and auditioning and is like I need to study more seriously and 86 is his

2:23:49reemergence year of like I think I I can be at the table with Martin Scorsese and Oliver Stone I can hold my own against Paul Newman yeah this is this is the moment that like really kind of defines the rest of his career right the fact that he's able to fucking nail this scene yeah because the next year he's got good morning Vietnam which is like a pretty big role like that's pretty much yeah and then the year after that is bird which is just I mean it's one of my favorite when these movies it's probably my favorite farest political reform and it's like and it's like did that make him a star no because like farest witter could like you say is so specific but it made him an enduring Hollywood figure he's like a geometry yeah where you're like this guy has a number of excellent vehicles under his belt and and force but a gravity one up leading act acting Oscar even though that's kind of supporting performance it kind of yeah but you know whatever but you're like he's primarily a character who a couple times the right project has

2:24:51met him exactly where he's at and it's the kind of movie that could only be led by he's also like ghost dog it's just like no one could have been fucking ghost dog but I'm like like ghost dog last king of Scotland the butler right you're like he has like a collection of movie star movies and then but then it's also like is there a hostage situation in a movie guess what tired is picking up the phone right now he's the guy who's being held hostage he plays or he's either please please my very effective psychic cop in species the fucking weirdest movie ever made where he walks into rooms he's like someone was hurt here and there's like 14 gallons of blood on the floor we should do species on patreon only issues only so that we can hear bends sort of if I were in this movie it end with me owning an island yeah if I would not make any mistake I'd have a bunch of good sex and still be alive be sure to recognize that I was cool I'm not gonna tear my spine out one and two uh-huh I haven't

2:25:51seen three but which I think was straight to TV I think it was said but some have told me is not bad it's still it's still hand-stridged I think hand-stridged might just be doing a little camera and it was directed by love DS right who did three three was directed of course that was written by Schrader by Brad Turner a TV okay TV guy okay hand-stridged reprises the role briefly in the opening scene it was a sci-fi channel original yes but there's an un-vd on rated correct there's like a sexier version of it that I have been told I know this because you've heard that the sexy versions the good one is that what you're saying no I know that you know I did both species one and two on the authorized novelizations podcast I picked species one kind of because I was like that's funny there's a official novelization of that and then of course it was hit with the news by over B of and don't you worry there was a novelization of species two as well both right by a woman

2:26:53yeah hey and uh so I watched one and two there's a fourth one as well there is species the awakening standalone sequel not direct follow-up yeah I'm sure fans are furious I don't know hey it's Kelly Rowland you may not know this but I have Exama so I get how it can still your time but why let Exama take over when you can talk to your doctor about epglyse epglyse lubricism ab lbkz a 250 milligram per two milliliter injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe axima also called a topic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies epglyse can be used with or without topical corticosteroids don't use if you are allergic to epglyse allergic reactions can occur that can be severe eye problems can occur tell your doctor if you have

2:27:54newer worsening eye problems you should not receive a live vaccine when treated with epglyse before starting epglyse tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection paid partnership with lily respect your time ask your doctor about epglyse and visit epglyse.com or call 1-800-LiliRx or 1-800-545-5979 I do want to call out that species 4 was a briefly titled species colon quadro was it really yeah which I'm realizing I don't know if any franchise has done that not yet right no the the never made old school sequels so it's be called old school dose yeah I just like the untapped potential here let's do it yeah I think that saying Natasha hints strange should be like part of like a president's good cognitive I noticed that you've only said Mary Elizabeth master Antonio once Mem in in entirety and it is one of the great I trip over

2:28:55the last name Mary Elizabeth master Antonio what was the tennis player in the 90s uh me yeah master no who you're talking about Sanchez Vicario oh yeah Alexis Andrew yeah I just always was I loved it no I just like this is a no it's right all right are on ta or I didn't know I don't know how you say your first name but you know I loved a meal of a name like Mary Elizabeth master Antonio feels like a roller coaster it's fun to say you feel satisfied when you you come into the landing do you think her and Stuart masterson were just in a death stare about who got the three names yeah now maristor masterson is the daughter a she a Peter masterson who was like a big actor right like she was uh she was um you know Hollywood royalty where is miss Mary Elizabeth master Antonio's father worked operating bronze foundry in Oak Park Illinois so she was how did you get Scarface I don't know man

2:29:57she was on Broadway and various musicals including as an understudy in the 1980s run of west side story that's like three years before Scarface yeah I don't know I mean she rocks she's got an interesting career in that she's made very few movies like she was in the original production of Amadeus that sounds good um but that must have led to yeah it feels like she gets cast in Scarface off of that yeah she's a very few movies I wonder if it's just like Puccino scenes are on Broadway or something like that it has to be yeah yeah because she obviously that's a humongous show and she's in the original cast but it's done at fair amount of theater but like it's just crazy that like it's like her movie credits are Scarface color of money slam dance January man the abyss that's her whole eighties she has made only three films this century and one of them's a short film yes she was in a film in 2015 called a mock she basically hasn't made a movie since the perfect she basically hasn't made a movie since the perfect storm she also her husband directed the January man is that right yes she's married to Patrick O'Connor who directed most

2:31:04of what she has made since the nineties right who made the terrible film stars and bars which I talked about on a big picture episode one yes one of the least relevant day no day Lewis movies is it fair to say the least relevant is anything really competing with that I don't think so but yeah no it's it's like Robin Hood Prince of thieves is kind of her final major movie star move yeah which she's good in that I guess she's good in that I like the movie so much you like that movie so much I really do I think I haven't seen the movies I think I'm really fucking fine I rewatched when we were doing cost and so good and then that movie so I was like we should hold this well there are also like two different versions now right all right we should just like costar goes directed this let's just do it on like the cost in a series we were debating whether or not to do it in the costar series was short but then we did a water world episode so I was like I should rewatch Prince of thieves a movie I similarly had like watched in pieces on cable maybe never sat down and watch from beginning to end and I just maybe it was the contrast between the two

2:32:08there's a lot I like in water world but it's obviously so long and it bloated and Robin Hood Prince of thieves I thought was like so much fun from beginning to end got that Kino 4k pre-ordered you know I think I have you know it's I have to fuck my talk it's so embarrassing embarrassing for you Trace is gonna fucking eat me for lunch but like Tracea just feel like like pallets arrive at his house every day and they just get added to the pile right like I have questions I'm like is he on the subscription list is he on press lists is he just pre-ordering everything all a cart one by one I don't know the methodology for he was very open about his AV man he was very open on the big picture of physical media episode out when he reached he watches movies but he was a little bit weird respect about like where does it all come where's it all come from which you know it's the real question of life I mean it's the essential question we all grapple with

2:33:12when he read off the AV man's text a I could not believe probably the peak of podcasting I truly yeah truly truly truly beyond that maybe the peak of human language I was like I could not believe how well written this text was I think you called out you were like is this how he kited out because it felt like the part nanny hall where he brings McClure now from behind the posters like in fact I have my AV man right here I was like did you know that we were gonna ask you this and had him pre-write it it was insane how good it was and how thorough it was and just if I were reading that out in text I think it would give me goosebumps have Tracea be the one to give it a dramatic he's a good reader I mean he he can lend a lot of gravitas to something the highest grade in British silicone marriage acoustics to the excellence and German engineering for Morence sounds just think how to lock you into where you live yeah you're like fuck I can't leave now I don't think he's playing a two no I think we get tense about he's got the daddy's got the movie my

2:34:15question is like how do I become the next man yeah exactly like how do I move in there do we need a court jester like what what what roles are still open in that household I think yeah I don't know what is Tracy eat I could I could cook I could have Tracy very convincingly could have appeared in this film yeah especially as the guy who loses to Eddie and then is like can I buy you a drink and Eddie's like let me buy you a drink I don't know who that guy is he's probably like an actual pool hall denzy in the thing that I mean like the Kevin McCready is in this film who is a real life hustlers Brady seasons or is he somebody else he is a Brady seasons he is a real hustler who plays under the name earthquake who has an unusual like side form which I think is part of his hustle it's very poetic right right like he doesn't look like a sort of like traditional pool pro or whatever that's what mentioning I guess Iggy pop I was gonna say yeah we got a

2:35:16fantastic Iggy pop as credited as skinny player on road yep who I wish there had been a couple of more like two brothers and a stranger style cons in halls because I also wanted to interrogate the fact that Newman's like it's that if you were done two brothers and a stranger and it's like it involves me grabbing your girlfriend's ass and I was like where's the two brothers like if we were doing two brothers would we also be like grab asking or what like I don't need them to explain them to me but I do want to see multiple types of hustles yeah yeah I love any kind of like you can put on and stuff yeah you know I also want to shout out um uh Paul Herman whose he's being z in the sopranos is he's another of the pool he's the guy at Atlantic City yeah it's just like I'm gonna give you 1500 you give me 800 and I have to beat you eight times but you have to beat me netta yes yes yeah love that I was like why does he just play pool for money okay I think a

2:36:18talk lowly yeah right yeah why doesn't it just be like whoever wins wins the money right feels easy enough right he's an Irishman yeah he's in a ton of like that way recently but I always think he and the gun dealer from Pittsburgh and good fellas he's like he's also he's um deniro's main Eagles buddy in silver line to playbook yes he's in silver linings right yes which is sort of like a gangster movie of that gangster and then everyone in that movie is kind of a low life right Eagle yeah that's what that's what I that's one I have not had the courage to rewatch that movie and I really want her how it would go down right now I even in all like is it problematic way but just like were we all drunk what was the fucking thing I didn't love that shit at the time yes so like I don't know like I was not uh like my opinion of all the I liked um the fighter a lot the fighter fighter really nailed the whole kind of like dirt bag yeah I have that I just felt like he was kind

2:37:23of losing it more and more with every movie all three of those worked for me until joy where it fell apart so hard and I have not rewatch any of that the vacuum yes and in my mind's eye I'm like well the fighter still is legitimately pretty great right and then the real linings it's like the performances are good it's kind of an over robbed movie American hustle which I loved at the time I'm just like I know I would you know I I remember being so hyped for American hustle and midway through it you wanted to get over on all these guys you didn't want to get over on these ever done yeah got me best we won that movie I mean I hated at the time I know we thought we thought about it yeah and I was like it's fun and now when I like replace scenes in my mind I'm embarrassed but the fighter I wonder if it if it is actually the last good one or if we watched it now we'd be like only see the signs of where this is going probably a little bit it also was just more of a novelty it was like oh the I heard how could these guys made this like you know low Massachusetts like yeah but Oscar bait fan right right it's like yeah it's got some grit to his good movie Adam's

2:38:26so good that he made me out of yeah amazing in that one yes yes um it's it's I mean what this conversation is irrelevant because obviously he rebounded and hit his peak form in Amsterdam I mean we figured the whole thing out and now is is upcoming out out Davis movie should be pretty solid Christ I fucking forgot I'm a god that was I'm a little excited I just Bales dedication to him is kind of impressive Bales dedication like God to be one of the greatest homies ever to be like whatever you want to do this I mean it's my beef with it is that Bales Road Amsterdam yeah my beef with it is that Bale doesn't make a ton of movies that is my beef wasted a lot of time making David O'Rossel movies and where I'm like he could have worked as a other guy it is a sad I love to repeat which is Christian Bale one of our greatest living actors in my opinion one of the great screen actors great actors and we think of us being such a dramatic intense actor all of his Oscar nominations are either for Adam McKay or David O'Rossel movies

2:39:27correct there is two guys now it's and you know it's tough but like the idea of Bale being like I've studied Al Davis tape for two years I'm going to occupy Al Davis in a way no one ever has and cage is like get that wig on me I think I can do mad in five minutes I saw Madden in 1903 who is Al Davis Al Davis was the I mean he was the owner of Los Angeles and Oakland of the Raiders it wasn't he also kind of a GM or what like yeah he was an old school like I'm king like I get I'm the owner I'm the GM I also am the offensive coordinator right and everybody runs fast and the quarterback just win baby he was just win his famous mama but he was like a genuinely transformational figure football who like helped bring down color barriers and like right he was like he was a force for good by and large but then this is Madden a David O'Rossel phone coming out this was John Madden who even at the time was a living cartoon character before he then literally became one Nicholas Cage is playing him basically in like the suit from the whale on loan yeah

2:40:32giving like what looks like a mad TV performance and I love Cage right this movie is by all accounts primarily about the video game about how he licensed his name and likeness to the video everything I've heard is that like that is the main story a big part of the movie and like Gemelania is playing trip Hawkins who's like like the guy from 3DO who like bitches him on the day are you kidding me I thought this was like this is how they won the 70s I think that will be some of it I do think I have from reliable people I believe there was a radio lab episode about how that game came into being right it's an interesting story and I have heard that is the primary text that this movie was this is incredible and yes it has right John Malini playing the founder of electronic arts yeah Shane Gillis and Miller pattern on just the most obvious cast in the oral it was going to be will Farrell will Farrell is going to be right yeah which makes it on a sense yes it's just the thing with Cage is it's just like you're handing him lit firecrackers you know what I mean like it's like he's a

2:41:35good actor but now we're just kind of back to post long legs these directors being like do you want to cut loose and he's like sure you know I do that doing like a long legs prequel or long legs is a mortal yeah it's fast-eddy long legs I love long legs I was I was into long legs I don't know if you want to get an announcement it struck terror in my heart yeah I don't think there's any need to replace fan I was I saw it it was somewhat impacted by the fact that I watched it and the second I came out Trump got shot at in Pennsylvania and I was just like holy shit and I immediately forgot all of long legs long legs just like photocopy over or I was like this will be the most memorable movie I've ever seen because it's the day that truck got shot but instead it was like neither were I I was at a wedding my my dear friends Pat May and Ashley Warren to the best people I know and had me Pat May Patrick May my dear friends bad man and again my dear friends Pad Man and

2:42:38Anakin I'm with the secret wedding all the best robot army recently lost it's nothing bad will happen but I was after reading speeches don't worry about it was really as a beef of sand was at their wedding a lot of our taxes this one someone ran up and and just in like one burst went like Trump was shot there was a shooter at the White House Corp. Sponinstead of a Trump is safe. Oh, that's more recent. Right. You cannot give me that. Don't do that. That much information that quick in one sentence. I understand wanting to get all the information. No emotional roller coaster. Yeah. Yeah. So uh, cover of money. Yeah. We left off kind of where Eddie Carmen and Vincent Partways. Yes. Right. Eddie gets hustled. It shatters his image. I feel like he basically half fires them. Yeah. Half. Yeah, it's like a soft dump. Don't be free. Yes. Right. Right. You actually don't need me anymore. I'm doing you a favor. But you have the money.

2:43:39I'm disgusting. You have the money. Go to a Linux city. But right. That's exactly. I feel like he's all confidence and now it's gone. And the other part of it is him being like I I fucked up. I need to pull the eject lever like as quickly as I can. I need to get out of here. This thing has gotten its hooks into me more deeply than I thought. And then this movie turns into a sort of an advertisement for optometry because it turns out that a lot of his brothers were just that he needed a prescription glass. He needed to get the coolest prescription sunglasses in the world. Yeah. Fucking cool. He is kind of like getting his eyes tested. He really does. He makes it all work for him. It is like a Thanos getting a power glove. Yeah. He's like you don't understand. I can read the news paper now. I wonder like how long he's been like I have no idea who's president. I haven't seen an actual pool ball in clarity. Do you think fast-eddy votes?

2:44:40I feel like he probably doesn't vote too much. No. I don't know how many things he does. He would have asked if he was just like I was all in on Stevenson and went that to nap and checked out on the political president. Honest liberalism. Yeah. And then he kind of, it's just a bit of a wander. It's a bit of a wander. Yeah. It's really a bunch of like you mentioned. It's a great montage of him getting his game back. But it is. I feel like actually without Cruz, like a little like the energy's gone a little bit. Well, this is where it should be a sports movie and the sport movie should end with Game 7 of the World Series or like the game that they and. Right. The new one has in the other like this is not on like slap shot. Where the movie's culmination is I'm going to take all my clothes off and skater on the circles, you know, like rather than we beat these guys. And and color of money is sort of like, well, there's the tournament. There's fast eddies kind of. We've resorted. He, you know, because he beats, no, Tom Cruise beats Grady. Fast eddy gets to the semi finals against Vince or the finals against Vince.

2:45:41And the the craneshot of the pool, the stadium, I was going to say pool hall, but this like stadium with like fucking 40 tables. And then cringing down to from behind fast eddies head, just looking at like his Valhalla. Yeah. And then all the like the behind the scenes stills, the production stills of this movie where it's like a track that goes around like goddamn big thunder mountain. And then there will be like, you know, the pool tables are all up against one side and then everything else is is Dolly track. I was recently in the Lanx City. For what? My birthday. You went to Atlantic City for your birthday. Yeah, baby. I don't think you were relaying this to us. No, he told me really. Yeah. Where's this gambling tax? Dorada ocean. Okay. Forgotta was fully booked. Interesting. Jerry's time for was playing. Oh, I have a boy. So went to the ocean got recommend the ocean really nice time. I mean, Lanx City, however, not in the best. David is making two thumbs up smile.

2:46:41Everything's good. I haven't been to Atlantic City since Sean's Fennessey's bachelor party. And tell me everything about Sean Fennessey's bachelor. That was where I discovered Gasolina, which is Tequila and Red Bull. Or and we got one of Sean's family members to get bottle service at an eggplant. Now, I've only met Sean's family once, which was at the live show we did. It is crazy when they all show up and you're like, why does Sean not have a thick long hair? You know what I mean? Like, right? Do you remember this Griffin from the Yes, sorry, my grandmother's sending very insane emails right now in a classic Griffin situation? Yeah. Anyway, like, it's just funny that this movie is like, we're going to make it to Atlantic City. Having been to Atlantic City, I'm like, you don't want to make it there. You need to leave Atlantic City. Like, you can spend a night maybe too. But I guess it was, it's like, like Atlantic City, I think it was ruined by like, plane travel basically, right? And like Indian casinos. Yeah. Where it's basically now, it just became, it's like, well, why would you want to go there?

2:47:42You can go somewhere else. Well, it's the same and now Vegas is being decimated by the fact that you don't have to go there and depend on sports. Among other things. Yeah. Yeah. So what's going to happen to these places? I mean, I guess what's happening to Atlantic City might happen to other places. Possibly. Is good old-fashioned American gambling about to collapse? Like, are these prediction markets just like, to your point, I just hadn't considered this, but like, do people even bother to learn how to play poker? Not to be to be whacking poker in their hands and like to study another man and be like, okay, because it's sort of what this movie is about of like needing to basically like elevate these things to an arc form and a psychological sort of exploration, you know, a game of people reading and everything. And just as much of that, I think it's like, I know this is going to sound really corny, but it is a celebration of a certain kind of American third space that is disappearing. Yes. Chris, 100%. And it is like, I hate, we're talking about physical media, video stores.

2:48:43Yeah. There's another one, you know. And I don't think in 20 or 30 years, people are going to care that this is what American bars looked like in 1986. Right. And you're just like, okay, so I go like, but I care, you're sitting at home doing an IG live, like betting $50 that Lady Gaga's going to fart at the ground. Yeah, it's like, what are we now? Right. Chris, that got me $4,000. I know. I paid for my rent. Congrats to you in your sample. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, right. Yes, let's get rid of phone gambling and have more real gambling. That's my take. Yeah. Right? No more phone. Right. Phone gambling bad. Really bad. Real gambling. Let me ask David loves. Do you actually, are you a fan? Yes. Yeah. But it's very good that I don't get to do it. Yeah, I only, because you know, I really, only play Blackjack and it's just over really fast. I, not to brag, I had an incredible night. I made like 600 bucks. Wait, don't, man. I'm going to say something on Mike that I really just knowing we,

2:49:43you know, record this podcast a bit in advance. I hope these are not famous last words. I am so relieved that my father has not gotten into the prediction markets. Oh, boy. My father, because like, your former gambling addict, who is on the good side of that? I'd say right. It's a long time. It's in the right, it's in the rear view, his gambling day. And like growing up, we would go to a fucking, you know, a super ball party or an Oscar party where you could like fill out a form. And I didn't see it break him. He didn't start sweating and going like a fuck. I'm remembering. But I just feel like the, the low bar for entry on the phone shit. Beyond just the prediction markets, what they call a, you know, frictionless gambler, which sports betting was this whole fucking thing. Yeah. That's right. The other thing is I love gambling. I don't care about sports gambling. It never does much for me. I love like his, the absolute coke rush of. I put chips on numbers and maybe I want. Yes. Like, I'm just like, what? You know, like I just, it does something for me that drinking.

2:50:46I don't know. One of the other, you know, drugs, these things have never done. You know, Ben, you've seen me. I have. Yeah. You just get very govery. You're a different mode. Yeah. We should have someone on who I was basically was like, it was, because my wife was like, just do your bachelor party. I turned 40. Yeah. She was like, just do your bachelor party. Like, you were going to do it with your friends, Alex Nairick. But just fucking go, go gamble for a night. One of them, you never got to do your bachelor party. Most incredible pod things I've ever, podcasting moments have ever witnessed in person was when we would go to Caesars in Vegas for NBA Summer League, which is where the NBA teams go and let their newly drafted players play in a competition. It's basically, it's also just an opportunity for everybody to gamble. So I believe you're all chat and a source is and all that shit. Bill Simmons, his longtime podcast co-host on Sunday night, Cousin Sal. Great cousin Sal. Super chef Dave Chang and Bill Simmons buddy Joe House. It's a great, the great Joe House. On the back end of like the fumes of what was like basically an all night gambling run,

2:51:49all night blackjack run, where House and Chang had only left the blackjack table to go get off strip gumbo in Vegas and then came back at like strip gumbo. It's not 10 or 11 a.m. to do like a long, long podcast about the layers of gambling that they participated in last night that involved like Chang winning a bone white chip that needed like his social security number to cash out. Oh, no white. And they're all betting an Alabama. Not only on their cards made of bone, but they're betting on other guys at the table where they're like, yeah, I'm I'm doing like layered that time. I'm essentially staking this guy's next thing. Even though he's not asking right, right, right, right, but he's hot. Yeah. So yes, I like when you can do that in crap. So I like when you start making bets for the, you know, the, the, the, the group of years, pit bosses, whatever, you know, like that's fine. No, I, but I play every blackjack crap. Like those are, yeah, you like it go. He's like it fast. You do not like long poker nights.

2:52:50No, I enjoy poker, but right. You're impatient. Is that fair to say? I guess so. I think I also have a good metronome that's at least what everyone was, who was watching me that night was saying of like, I'm pretty good at being like, I think I'm done. And like, you know, like, you're an incredible flake. Yeah, that's what you're incredible. That's me. Yeah, I'm the flakey one. All right, let's close out. Yes. Talk really rude things to throw at Ben. I can't. I'm joking. I'm just a dare you imply that Ben is flakey and later records. Fills the office with too many toys. I just think this is like he, no one fills the office with too many toys. Ben, by the way, has built a star destroyer size cabinet behind him. I'm a insulation. Wait, is that part of the argument? This has been new. I remember bringing a bunch of like random crap into the office. Is that it? In pop. Yeah, or the same. I need to once again remind you, we have very few funco pops in the office. I know. It is not. I know. I love saying funco pops.

2:53:51I know it gets your goat. You know, think they're low quality. Sure, sure. In every sense, I've never owned one. The plastic tolerance is terrible. The designs are uninspired. Right. Right. They kind of they kind of pump those out. But it's so made a funco pop of you. You would want it. Well, maybe that's why I just like them because it feels sometimes like they have notably made an effort to not make one of me feel like we could get some podcaster funco pops made. Really? I don't because I mean, no, you're forgetting that the peak of the tick I was on like fucking phone calls with like Sony like, where's the pop? Where's the pop? And they were making bullshit excuses to me. All right. Okay. We got to wrap this up. So the end of this movie is it's interesting because like it's what you were saying about slap shot. It's like there is the triumph is. It's fake. Yeah. Eddie beats Vince. But Vincent basically throwing it because he was laying bets against himself. Comes to the hotel room afterwards. It's like, here's your cut. Like I dumped that game. Like, but I'm going to win a bunch.

2:54:51You know, I'm going to win a bunch of money later. Eddie forefits the game like the next game. Right. Because it just fucks with this confidence again. Like, and gives Vince the money back and it's like, you know, let's do it's like Rocky versus Apollo Creed and private. Like, let's just face off for real. It's beautiful. I'm back. It's the best. Yeah. It's I mean, like everyone's walking out happy, right? I think everybody's walking out happy. But I think a lot of people are walking out be like, what just happened? Sure. You think like maybe the movie needs the triumphant final game or something? Or I think that it's part of it becoming a little bit of a solo album in the back half of the movie and less about like his his relate like there's so much potential in his relationships to Vince and Carmen and even with Janelle and even with these other background characters that you're I think in another kind of movie you'd probably want. If not resolution like development or deepening with that. I think you're right that it is it is an excellent ending taken on its own, but it undercuts the movie a little bit in that it does start to make you feel like all of

2:55:54that was just a distraction. And it's not like I only want this to be a mentor mentee movie, but it does sort of deflate that having been so much of the engine up until that point. Yeah. And it's where you know, you can watch this and you kind of walk out of it and you have maybe like a thousand different interpretations of what it means. But because it is a little bit of like I can do this with a look or I can do this with two words, there isn't like a feeling of and then Eddie Philseman onto in ten championships or like became the most respected liquor salesman on the eastern seaboard, you know, there is no there is there is there is a kind of it's a vibe not a resolution. Yeah. And in a way I respect I like that the ending at the ending is a little bit haunted and that it's like, is it good that this guy's playing ball again? Where does this go? It feels about is good as it's going to get for him. Yeah. And then we're going to try to further this movie was as good as it gets. That's good to get for him. Yeah. I mean like look when you compare the ending of this movie to the hustler,

2:56:57you're like, hey, this is a bouncy ending. Well, yes, but the ending of the hustler is the absolute, it is them making good on the promise of the setup, right? The entire movie is this existential journey of this guy trying to figure himself out. And he doesn't like the answer he finds, but the movie is an answer to the question that it poses. Well, it's like there's this weird like it's not a one last job movie. It's a I'm getting back into bank robbing movie. And none of the people in this movie are saying what I'd love to do is get the hell out of pool halls. They're like I have found my preferred environment. That's why I like it. And it's not a hector movie about like this is a bad life. I'm like, I know it's a bad life. I don't care. I mean, your parlance, David, this is this is an imperfect movie, but it is like drugs. It is unbelievable to watch. Yes. Yeah. I think that's Marty. Like I think a different filmmaker would insert a more moral slant to it or insist on a more

2:57:59maybe like conventional. Yeah. To it or so. I think that that's a nice like button at the end for Newman. It's like such an easy like and give this guy the Oscar moment. But the last 30 minutes of the movie is if the first hour of it feels like coke, it's the last 30 minutes are kind of a come down. And the last 30 minutes are a little jittery and you don't know who to trust and you don't know if life's going to work out. And it's kind of like a it's more of a feeling than it is like a statement, but I like the feeling a lot. Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. Now here's your coming down and the screenplay for scum apprentice. Feel like yeah, necessarily going in the right direction. Yeah. Here's the question for you guys to run through this exercise. This is kind of one of the most famous Gold Watch Oscar wins, right? They give it to him the year after they give in the Lifetime Achievement Award. He doesn't throw up to the ceremony. There's a lot of sliding doors of like obviously they should have given it to him for the verdict. When they don't do that, it feels like they give him the lifetime because they know they kind of

2:59:01fucked up even though Gandhi was undeniable. And then this feels like it's served to them on a platter. It is fascinating to look at the fact that I think he won the National Board of Review for Best Actor and zero other precursors. He doesn't win the Golden Globe this year. Obviously there were less things in 86. Huh. Who won the Golden Globe? I believe it was. Did Hoskins win? I think he did. I think Hoskins really kind of ran the table. Yeah, because Hoskins is certainly right. The critical favorite that year. Yes. For Mona Lisa. Yeah, he won the Golden Globe. That's what's fascinating is he always talked about like I love. Now head Newman maybe like already won Golden Globes. I can look that up. Like you know, it's possible the globes didn't care. But it does when you look at it feel like it must have been a little surprising on Oscar night. Right. Because the momentum was not clearly behind him even though he's Hollywood royalty and this thing was ahead. I know I would need to read more about it of like what was the press drum beat at that point

3:00:02of kind of like guys. Newman's up again. You're not going to fucking do this again. Are you? You know, like he showed up to the ceremony for the lifetime achievement year when that was still part of the main broadcast. And I think there was a fulfillment moment there. Even if it's like this is embarrassing that we've never given this guy a competitive. Totally. Hoskins and Mona Lisa is the better performance, right? Uh, again, on a time. Incredibly good performance. So sure. But I do love this performance. I do too. Yeah. Beats in the nobody's full year. Oh, that's a good question. This is my question. So like imagine we wait that long. Okay. So because it's also less embarrassing that it's, but then it becomes dire. If it's if you're waiting till nobody's full, you're like, it doesn't matter if Daniel D Lewis. Tom Hanks beat him for parts. I bet that is the second. I don't think but there was a recent time. There was no universe in which he wasn't going to win. I mean, I think that wouldn't be good in nobody's full, but that's not a movie where you're like, well, that's one of Newman's best either.

3:01:02I mean, he's good. I love that performance. Yeah. He's good. Yeah. I mean, like he's incredible in road to tradition, which is his last nom. And that's Chris Cooper beating him. Sure. But that would have been the true gold watch of like you old guy, like, you know, you did 15 great minutes in a supporting role. Like here's your Oscar. I mean, like, I don't know. I mean, like he should have won earlier. Like I said, he lost like, you know, he loses for the hustler to Maximilian Shell for judgment at Nuremberg. It's a pretty good movie and Shell's amazing in it. Obviously, Paul Newman back then is young. Like he, he, his first nom is for Canada Hot 10 Roof. He loses to David Niven for separate tables. I'm not going to litigate that right now. Like, I don't know. Like, I'd be like, not right now. I can't do that. We're at three hours. I also think his brick is interesting, but maybe not entirely successful. Is that a wild pig? That movie stinks. Yeah. That movie is like a neutered, you know, version of the movie. Like, maybe he's on the plane. Yeah. Of the place.

3:02:03And then like, yeah, he loses to Pwade, he loses to Stiger. Those are pretty, you know, and then he loses for absence of malice the year, like a few years before this, to Henry Fonda for an on Golden Pond. But like, was he not nominated for Luke? I know. He's not made for Luke. He loses to Stiger. That's the style. That's the style. Okay. Was he nominated for a hug or no? No, I made for a hug lost to Sydney, Pwati. And he's not nominated for Butch Cassidy or Sting. Redford gets the Sting nomination. Redford gets the Sting nomination. Redford's only acting nom, which is wild. And like, you know, I mean, obviously, Newman's great in those movies, but they're not like demanding in the same, I don't know, whatever. The not oscarie performances, I guess. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, he's one of the best. So he should have an Oscar. He got an Oscar for a good movie. It's funny that then Scorsese wins an Oscar for the departed. And also that has the gold watch sort of asterix put on it, even though the departed is incredible.

3:03:03And it kind of kicks off like a whole new late period for him. Right. But like that, that is a narrative around Scorsese a lot. I mean, and like, doesn't he direct Ellen Burst into a win right after the exercise? Yeah. Right, which is another one where it's kind of like, damn, does she rock? Like, did we fuck up not giving it to her for the, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. What do you look at? I feel like you're trying to find something. No, no, I was just like, I said the Redford thing. And I was like, did I just say something that's false? But it's true. Is insane that Redford's only acting nominations for the Sting. When you consider that like out of Africa one best picture, and they didn't even nominate him, that like, neither of them got nominated for a few good men, or not few good men, all the presidents men. Did he get nominated for candidate? No. No, no. No, that's the wild one. Best actor in a leading role, that is it. His first nomination is 1974 for the Sting. And then it's two best director nominations, best picture nomination for Quidd Show, and an honorary award in 2000. Okay. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, he didn't attend.

3:04:04So there's no speech. So yeah, I have no, like, right? There's no big, uh, I think it was filming something or did he just probably? Was he like, I went last year, I don't need to go again. Yeah. And he's, you know, continues to make good movies. Robert Wise, right? Robert Wise accepts on his behalf. And then I think it's like Betty Davis is also on this day. It's just Marie was sending us the clip yesterday where you said, like, God, we really did use to let people just be so fucking old. And I wise looks, but I looked it up and Betty Davis was 79 in that clip. And then I texted everyone a photo of Susan Sarandon today. And they're the same age. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like old people used to be very different. Bruce as old now as Newman was when he did color of money, it has to be older, right? Yeah. I can, well, the Oscars have transcripts of every speech. Robert Wise saying, like, Paul wanted everyone to know that after coming here for seven

3:05:06other occasions like this, and then Betty Davis goes, Robert, for two minutes, let me say something about you then starts talking about Robert Wise's career. And she's like, Robert Wise is the winner of two Oscars himself for the sound of music in West Side story. And Robert Wise goes, thank you. And she says, that's right. And the speech is over. They do not mention Paul Newman. Would they play people off? I mean, yeah, they would. And I think also they think the producers probably like this is not going to go in a good direction. Tom Cruise is in fact older today than Paul Newman was when they filmed the color of money by like a year or two. Pretty cool. Yeah. I mean, it's one of my favorite moments in television history is when they had Mickey Rooney present best supporting actress at the Sag Awards. And he got up there and treated it as if he was receiving a lifetime achievement award. He like made his seventh wife stand up in the crowd and made everyone applaud her. He like went through like it's a 15 minute.

3:06:07And the nominees are Judy Denjian Trollkel. Let's play the box office game. Yeah. October 17 1986. This movie's opening number two. Okay. $6.3 million. It makes 52 domestic, which is pretty good. Sure. He doesn't have a movie hit 100 million domestic until the aviator. But this is certainly the most. Yeah. Straight forward conventional hit. He has had since taxi traffic. It gets four Oscar numbs supporting actress for Mary-Lis with master. And Troney who is very good. She loses to Diane Weas for Hannah or sisters. That's a pretty deserved one. Great win. Adapted screenplay arc direction, which is kind of a cool nom. Because it's such a trash. And I also fully agree with it. Yeah. Because like, yeah, there's just like they get like the tile floors right. It's perfect. It gets pretty good reviews. Ebert was kind of soft on it. He gave a two and a half stars. I mean, I think a lot of people were basically like, you know, smarty, you can do better. You know, I was interesting going back and reading how

3:07:09Tepid people were. I was going to know what Pauline Kale. Yeah, all over it. But Pauline Kale was a bachelor by the ladies. It feels it feels very akin to the untouchables to me where you read those reviews and you're like, it's more summer popcorn fluff. And I'm like, this thing is directed by Brian DePolma. It has costumes by like our money. It has a more coin a score. I recently got found out. Mammoth dialogue. We didn't know how fucking good we had it. I recently found out that my dad, I don't know. I don't think it was when it was released. I think it was in a video guide. And this is an opinion that he never shared with me. Or I blocked out. It's like Godfather to cash grab. This is the thing. I'm like, even even something like untouchables, which I'm not arguing is one of the great American movies. You're like, if this is what popcorn movies were, we'd be living in a perpetual golden age. No one could complain about anything. We would not be gambling on sports on our phones. Right. I would guess that part of the energy of the reviews at the time were, is this now the turning point

3:08:10and Scorsese's career? Does Scorsese become just a studio system, hired gone? Is he movie stars just want him to land a little credibility to their passion projects? And so once he follows this up with like two of his most personal movies and two of his purest artistic statements, it does feel like almost immediately the retrospective view of this film gets better. I love this part about his career is that talking about it in the moment of when, like looking at it in the moment of when it happened versus as part of a series of films about decaying masculinity, it just completely changes the sort of circumstances or the context in which you do it. Well, and also to invoke this like one conversation I had with him on set where he was around all of the time. But there was a moment where I responded to a thing he said and he clearly was like, you know, ball, you know movies. And his assistant was like, Marty, I think we have like 40 minutes

3:09:10before the next shot if you want to go back. And he's like, no, no, I want to talk to this kid and then just talk to me for 20 minutes. It was one of the greatest experiences of my life. Oh my god, it was unbelievable. But what was fascinating about it was he was just sort of talking about this of like the narratives around me were this and this is how I felt. You know, like I was being discussed in this way and everyone was sort of like pocket watching my career moves and like I was a guy struggling. And he even called out like, you know, amongst the movie brats, I never had the seismic hit early on that all of those guys had that minted them for ad American graffiti. Right. He was like, I'm doing color of money. I'm doing Cape Fear and these guys are like Marty's selling out. And it's like, right, I didn't even have Carrie, you know? I didn't have Godfather. Like not only did I not have an Oscar win but I didn't have a straight down the middle blockbuster that made me a safe bet for studios. Right. I can always default back to what if I gave you another one of those?

3:10:13And it was fascinating to be like this guy really doesn't seem to still, I mean, I say to this day, this was 10 years ago, view himself as obviously I'm minted and I'm undeniable. And you especially think about him in the 80s when it was this weird battle between people being like, obviously Martin Scorsese is the greatest filmmaker alive and also he kind of can't catch a break. And we give him a hard time every time. Well, I think even with some of the more recent efforts where it's like, yeah, he did, like he got to make Irishman and flower moon but had to do them for tech companies and had to like, you know, like there wasn't, there hasn't always been just like a Nolan in a studio and they're just like whatever you need, brother. No, even his last couple of movies have all been like 10 nominations, zero wins. Yes. And three and a half hours and people are like, I loved it, but it's like, did you finish it? Like, yeah, I mean, I, we did. But like, yeah, he's the best. Number one of the box office script is if we're covered one of the biggest hits of 1986, we covered it on our

3:11:16Patreon. We covered on our Patreon. It's one of the biggest hits of 1986. We'd love to know what Chris thinks of it. It's how many. Oh, oh, it's crocodile dundee. Right. The first one. The first. Okay. I literally may not have seen this since 1987. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Would you like it then? I did. It kind of rolls. Got a big knife. Yeah. Uh, number two is color money. Number three is a film we will cover one day. If we cover this director, I think it's her directorial debut. Is it a spurious? Nope. It's not a penny marshal. It is. It's jump in jackflash. Jump in jackflash. We will. Let's say we will cover this. We'll do penny marshal. Barring. Patastrophe. Have you seen what you go, Bergdjumpen jackflash? A hacker. Don't think I saw jump through jackflash. I saw Eddie. But jump into. Well, Eddie's good. That's sports. Jumping jackflash. Very strange film. You haven't seen. Haven't seen. Very odd. Yeah. Excited to watch him. Sure. Jonathan Price. Big Jonathan Price part. Right. That was the whole thing where they got him to do a screening at Metrograph. Yes. He was coming to do a screening for

3:12:18Listen Up Phillip with R. And they were like, we're fucking show and jump in jackflash. Perlin was like, we're in buy. Yeah. Let's get a print and put it on the other screen and make him do an intro for that one as well on the same. And he's like, I guess I'm in this. I don't remember. Number four is a film from a great otur who's you just invoked one of his movies. Your dad thought his movie was a cash grab. This is a later effort from him. Is this Tucker? No. Tucker, great and correct director. Is this Peggy Sue? Peggy Sue got married. A movie I like a lot. Not a bad movie. I used to bump on and it's really kind of warmed to twander hard. We're Tucker ever sniffed top 10 boxes. Yeah. Tucker was such a bomb. That's a good movie. That's a good thing. But that's also a movie where it bombing only helps its legacy. Like it feels like in the text of the movie that the movie itself also can't work. Now number five is for my don't know. It's an old guy comedy. Like I've heard of it, but like I've never seen it. It's not a lemon math app. No. Is it like it's an old guy? Is it a team?

3:13:19It's not? No, it's just a couple of really famous old actors. I mean, they've made movies together, I guess. But a huge cronon. No, no, no. It's a really great actor. Like these are big famous Hollywood actors. They're old now. Old as fuck. Well, I guess they're still making it. What's the milieu? What are these old guys doing? They're being gangsters. They got hats on and they got guys. Guys. It's called tough guys and it's Kirk Douglas. And the other one is Bert Landcaster. Yes. Okay. And I guess like they were like they made a lot of Westerns together and then they made like seven days in May. Yeah. But I mean, I don't know if audiences in the 80s were like Kirk and Bert. Yeah, together. Yeah. Directed that. Let's find out. Have you seen Jeff Canoe? It's Jeff Canoe. Yeah. Wow. What a hole. That is crazy. The director of Revenge of the Nerds. That's why I was just like it was a weird kind of like does he want to level up? Did Kirk Douglas go to Canoe and just say, I love what you did with the nerds. I love Bunker. I love what they stole those pants.

3:14:21Ogre really. What a what a villain. Hey, RIP Ogre. He just passed away. So great. Yeah. Number six is children of our lesser god. I feel my watch recently because I'm trying to watch 86 movies. That is kind of, I mean, like it's kind of what you think it is. The Marley Malin is pretty darn great. Yeah. Number seven top gun. So Cruz has got two two movies up here. Number eight is a deadly friend, the insane West Graven movie. Oh sure. Someone throws a basketball through a woman's whole head. That's right. It's like a movie where he like he kind of made like a paranoid like kind of like romantic, you know, Tia. And they were like, why do no basketballs get thrown through anyone's head in this movie? And he was like, what? They were like, do we were filming some pickups? Not a great movie. Number nine is stand by me. A film I've never loved, but obviously, classic, I don't know if you care. I'm too young for it maybe like it was not. Yeah, perfect time for me. It was like, yeah, like nine, ten,

3:15:21I've seen it like one and a half times. But I think it totally works. Like kind of undeniably. Yeah. And the number ten is, that's life. What's that again? That's life. That's that. No, no, no, Blake Edwards. Blake Edwards. So yeah, yeah, it's Jack Lemon and Julie Andrews made independently by Edwards using his own money. You guys are going to blank check, Blake Edwards. So we had him on a bracket once. We discouraged listeners from voting. He's made like 35 movies. And the last 15 are rough. Yeah. We basically, we had one year, the great, I had the conceptual idea. What if we did a March Manus bracket where one side is all Oscar winners for Best Director. And one side is all Razi winners for Worcester. Uh-huh. Because you got like, costner in there, prints. There's weird razors. But moving. Oh, right. There were interesting people in there. Yeah. And But to fill it out, we had Blake Edwards. It truly, we could not fill out the bracket

3:16:21unless Blake Edwards was in there. And so we basically messaged to people. By technicality, we had to put him in here. Don't vote for that. Don't break the game. It would be, it will end the show. Yeah, we'll reject this. Yes. Yeah, for a movie called Sunset. The Bruce Willis James Garner movie is what he won his Razi for. Like, it's just insane that Blake Edwards directed fully. Three pink Panther movies after Sellers died. Yes. People forget that he took three stabs at that. That's like species quadril. Right. You're like pink Panther. What if the movie was Sunset of the Pink Panther, which was the Canadian one? Yeah. But then there's like, there's the clip show ones where they're like, he, uh, Clousseau, he's around the corner. There's a clip show one. And then there's a Ted Was one, like Ted Was from Soap was, you revealed to also be a son of Clousseau at the end, I think. Uh-huh. Is that cursed, I think? Yeah. Yeah. And Trail is the clip show. Trail is the clip show one. Trail is like, he's here somewhere and they open a door and they show you outtakes from one of the earlier movies.

3:17:23You know, people used to stuck to it. It's so weird. It's like, repressed by the eye, but like, that's totally fine. Yeah, that was great. So dead. I mean, like, it's true. Like, we're like, God, shit used to be so much better. We used to make TV and then you like would watch TV shows where they're like, I'm having memories of my, and they would just do a clip show. Like, there's, there's the Star Trek where Riker has like memory syndrome. Right. And like, it's just like, they're cutting to like, we have to operate on him. And then you just remember as a mission they did. Also like Bruce Lee died and they would just like pick some guy and be like, your name is now Bruce Lee too. Yeah. We've taken too much of Chris. We have Chris. Thank you for this. Thank you for having me. Thank you for everything. Sorry. We went so long. I'm so excited that I got to do this with you guys. I'm such a pleasure. Open range. It felt like we were a great movie. But we like, I was reaching across the void. I know. So I'm really just not to be in person. They're just not the same. Hopefully we can all we drafted together last year on stage. Hopefully we'll draft together on the big picture. Yeah. At the watch. The watch people should listen to watch. Yeah. Anything else we want to plug?

3:18:24No, I think the watch, the big picture of the rewatchables. I make appearances on Wait a second where I discuss the news. Is that Jason's show? Yeah. Yeah. Enjoying that. And we got to get Jason on again. Yeah, we should have been too long. Yeah. He left the basketball text thread. I'm in and in fury because of God to be pissed in the space. Did it really? I thought you left that thread or did you just mute? I take breaks from it. Yeah, I take mental health breaks from it. There's too many people in it. But Jason, you know, he was just like, see me fucking pissed in space. Yeah. We never were not even playing the pisses. Yeah. Yeah. But uh, thank you. So you are. Thank you, Rob. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Next week is the last temptation of Christ. Assuming new releases don't move into the slots. Yeah. Correct. Yes. Yes. Jamel Buie. Yes. Also, we should mention today over on our Patreon, releasing an episode where we're pairing New York stories and amazing stories. Oh, so yeah, as teed up in this.

3:19:24Yes. The story's fun. Yes. Are you guys going to do bad? We're definitely going to do a music video. Yeah. Okay. We're so much kind of in silery, this course, the stuff that's actually worth talking about. They were still strategizing how to do it. But I think yes. Uh, but we have a special guest that maybe we shouldn't announce because it isn't locked in. Pretty exciting. Yeah. And if it is locked in, then we'll drop the name in here. Barack Obama. Perfect. Wow. Can't believe that worked out. Um, so yeah, tune in next week for that. And as always, I feel like I didn't hit it. I, uh, oh, oh, oh, guys, that was awesome. Lankcheck with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me Ben Hossley. Our creative producer is Marie Bardy Salinas and our associate producer is AJ McKeein.

3:20:26This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeein and Alan Smithy. Research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Oli Moss and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon, blankcheck special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at blankcheckpod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by blankcheck productions.