Talking Dateline: Heartless

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1:02Hello everybody I'm Keith Morrison and this is Talking Date Line. Today I am joined by Josh Mecoitz to discuss his episode which is called Heartless. Interesting title for this one. It's about the disappearance of a woman in rural Oklahoma, the armchair detectives that brought attention to her case and the killer who is too close to home. But before we get into all of that if you haven't listened to the episode yet you can find it right below this one or stream it right now on peacock and then come back and we'll talk. We'll have more from Josh's interview with with Telenus Killer and later your questions and social media. All right let's talk date line. So this was an interesting way to get into a story Josh Mecoitz. You got it through our digital team when you were doing the Missy Get American. Yes I got a call several years ago when Telenus was missing before she'd been found by a friend of mine who knew Telenus I think through work and

2:05she said this woman I know is suddenly missing and nobody can find her and and you know maybe this is something that you guys could could work on. So I sent it to Veronica who's in our date line episode who who runs the Missy Get America franchise for us and so we did one of the first stories on that case. We were sort of one of the first places where that where Telenus case got some national play. Now I'd be the first to admit that I don't think that our Missy Get America thing did anything except generate a lot of tips. I do not think it played any role in solving the case but it did sort of begin to get the case out there and- Was that what prompted the the armchair detectives on social media to get involved? Well it's impossible to say sort of what prompts I mean what got everybody interested in the caron read case what got everybody interested

3:07in the Lindsay Clancy case. There's a sort of a spot or a sort of a match strikes on the internet and suddenly there's this wildfire of interest and there was some of that in the case of of Talina Gallo. You know people who had never heard her name before did know who she was had never been to Oklahoma suddenly were super invested in finding out where she was and we sort of talked to one of the leaders of that group. Yes. Yeah well it's very interesting about these kinds of groups that form sometimes spontaneously sometimes intentionally the police occasionally like to work with them. These police officers didn't seem necessarily all that enthusiastic. They were sort of ahead of them most of the time I think. It's hard to say. I mean I obviously wasn't privy to every conversation or any of the conversations between the sort of the amateur sleuths and the sheriff's investigators who were working this case. Those investigators the sheriff's

4:12department they they they solved it. They got to the bottom of it and you know were they helped along at some point by by the amateur sleuths maybe but this is certainly mostly almost almost all their work. You know the problem as they say in this in this episode is that when you get all these tips from elsewhere generated by people on the internet who unquestionably sort of you know meanwhile and in some cases come up with legitimate interesting worthy to explore avenues of investigation that can slow things down particularly if it's an investigator you already think you know what's going on. But but those tips can't be discounted. I mean our missing in America story generated a tip that that Tolena had been seen here in the distant suburbs of Los Angeles. Well not true but they have to check it out. And so that I think investigators feel like that kind of thing

5:14slows them down but there's no question that like sometimes it leads to something. I think it definitely slows them slows them down in many cases. I've only encountered one which was a case where they wasn't the person who wasn't missing she was already dead and they're trying to figure out who she was it was a missing it was a Jane Doke case. And in that case the detectives actively sought out and were happy to accept the help of this online group of sleuths and it made a big difference. But again if somebody is missing they're trying to solve a murder as a different situation. Well the wild was come back to as the Kristen Smart case in which you know Chris Lambert who was a you know podcaster not an investigator didn't know the smart family never investigated you know crimes or anything like that sort of took it upon himself to begin investigating this. And then generated a tremendous amount of information that kind of helped kickstart the case and there's other cases around the country where sort of amateur sleuths or podcasters you know made a big deal

6:17and there's also cases in which amateurs just lose and you know sort of got in the way. Generally law enforcement happy to have tips. I think there's a point at which they sort of feel good enough staying your land. It's also a change from the way it was you know when when I started certainly was just about seven eons ago. But yeah where the officers did not want anybody interfering they didn't want anybody even talking to them about it they're doing their own investigation and stay out of it please. Cops were working with oil lamps weren't they when you started? I think that's about right. Driving driving around in their horseless carriages. I don't think people I don't think people trying to solve crimes at home. Whether they're disappearances or murders I don't think that's going away. I think the internet makes that much more possible than it was just a few years ago and it can create a community of

7:18sort of like-minded people who want to get to the bottom out which is exactly what happened in this case and just a tremendous amount of work. And you know I mean at one point investigators told her to sort of slow down because Corey their suspect was reading the where's Talina justice for Talina webpage and thinking I'm under suspicion which from those people she absolutely was. I think the cops wanted her to feel like no no you're not under suspicion you're you're it's still safe to talk with us. And so they sort of asked just like can you can you just hold down a little bit and the cops really clearly wanted to keep Corey talking because every time they spoke with her they were the shares investigators were learning a little bit more. Her past is pretty fascinating. What what kind of character emerged in your mind from that? That investigation of her past. Corey's past kind of murky not not a whole lot known in detail

8:25about sort of where she came from and and what led to that. But but you spoke to her ex-husband. Yes his story. The story he told police to about what they should be looking for. Well yeah I mean that's right that's you know that's not a story you tell somebody sort of on this for the moment you know I mean Alec her ex-husband calls police and when he hears Talina is missing and he's like look a couple things. One you're not looking for a live person or a body you're looking for body parts. And second you're looking for Ryzen which is this I mean I don't know if exotic is the right word for it but highly unusual out of the mainstream poison that is used in you know like by terrorists and in assassinations and stuff. And his story is Corey was making Ryzen when they lived together in Wisconsin and she told him that she

9:26broke into the neighbor's house and spread Ryzen to kill them. She said I'm making Ryzen to deal with our enemies. She said that's how he quotes her. Now the interesting thing about this is that the people living next door to Corey and Alec in Wisconsin hardly meet the standard of being an enemy. I mean I'm not sure they actually had any dispute with them. Corey may have believed that they were the source of the township sort of saying you have too many animals you have to do something about them. You know you're making a lot of noise and they smell bad and neighbors are complaining but the ziklers who I spoke with at length they say no that wasn't us that was one of the other neighbors anyway that everybody was upset about that. This really is killing an ant with a can. I mean Ryzen Ryzen is a pretty strong response. Yeah you get in a pretty small dispute with your neighbors and the next thing you know you're spreading a poison that's used you know to assassinate foreign leaders and things. That's kind of crazy. Now by now six years have

10:32passed it's pretty clear the ziklers didn't suffer any ill effects from that Ryzen because it turns out it was incompetently made. Thank God for that. I mean can you imagine. But because by the time that everybody realizes that was Ryzen it's like six years later and Mrs. Eagler can barely find any of it still in her house which is a good thing because they would have been killed very quickly if the Ryzen had been made properly and of course the recipe for Ryzen was found on Corey's computer one of the search awards but that's just a coincidence. Of course it's a coincidence because everybody looks for things like Ryzen then it's normal and when we come back we are going to have a listen to a bit of a conversation that Josh had with Corey you'll get an impression of just what this woman is like. Whoever says saving money is hard doesn't know that the new customers who bundle and save

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12:35from home or unlimited cashback on tickets to concerts and games. So grab a bite grab a seat and earn unlimited 3% cashback with the Savory Card Capital One. What's in your wallet? Terms apply see CapitalOne.com for details. You fully expect it in the first in the early part of this story that this strange group this in fact the defense is going after this possibility that this right people involved in this in this strange group of what would you call them? The what's the name of the audience? The audience. Yeah. You know there was a series of novels made in a movie. How many people are in that lifestyle? I don't know. It appears to involve consenting adults and it appears to involve master slave relationships between men and women.

13:38It is I'm not going to say a secret society it's just sort of something that people don't talk about except to other members of the group. It's a subculture. People might not understand. Well I mean normally homicide investigations have a nasty habit of pulling back the covers on everybody's secrets whether or not they are related to the crime itself right? No secret you're a murder investigation right? You're having an affair you're embezzling money. You you know you're a you're a you're a tax evader like all this stuff is going to come out because investigators don't know which is going to be the part that actually plays into this. However very quickly it became clear to them that they sort of weren't getting any leads in that like whatever whatever was going on it didn't really directly have anything to do with Talena's lifestyle which she had her husband had practiced and then and then he he had he had

14:43died of a stroke a couple of years earlier. So did it involve other people who were in that lifestyle possibly? I mean they they certainly looked at that guy Marty also known as Wolfie. Oh yeah and Cory points at him as the main suspect. Investigators clearly looked pretty hard of him. Here's why they thought that Marty Wolfie was not a good suspect. He was in terrible physical shape. You can see that in the interrogation video. He had a he had a drug problem. He died of an overdose. It's doubtful to investigators anyway and to others involved in this that he would have had the physical strength to move Talena around in that freezer that he would have been able to physically inflict the blows on her. But also you know when investigators are talking with with

15:46witnesses or people who are maybe persons of interest they're watching very carefully to see what they say how they say what they admit to what they hold back. And in that part of sort of the investigation Marty came across as truthful even admitting some things he'd done that maybe were not completely legal like breaking into Talena's house and taking a chainsaw which he later ended up confessing to and bringing back. Marty came across to investigators as truthful and helpful. Cory came across to investigators as shading the truth, changing her story, not telling the truth all the time and also lying about little things which always makes investigators sort of sit up a little more in the saddle. Did it surprise you that she was prepared to talk to them as much as she was and that she was prepared to sit down for an interview with you? You know when you talk with Cory like when you see Cory in this story early on talking about her friend Talena who

16:48was missing like her affect is not that of a guilty person who has been caught. She is exactly talking the way an innocent person would react. Right. If a friend of theirs were missing which is sort of what made that interview work and why we put it sort of all the way through. You also got the impression again in the first hour particularly that there would be hearing more about the relationship between Talena and Cory and that there was you know in the in the aftermath of their marriages they got together as two women and there was some sort of romantic attachment which might get stronger. So I want to play a little bit of your Q&A with her. When you asked her about that very question I thought that was pretty interesting stuff. Here it is. Two of you were just friends and roommates. Just friends. There was no other kind of romantic relationship. None ever what's so ever in fact when Talena's husband died she really disavowed interest for a long time in anything

17:50romantic or sexual and when I finished my relationship with my ex I took vows of celibacy. I was really not interested in any future relationship either. It's been suggested that you wanted more out of that relationship than Talena did. Which is which is I guess it's not unusual or unfounded for these people to think that given Talena's lifestyle. Not true. No not on any level. There are people out there in the community who knew that there was nothing between us other than a very strong platonic friendship. Right. I'm not asking whether there was anything between you. I wouldn't be afraid to admit if there was but there was nothing sexual between us. And you were not interested in that. Not interested at all. You know there were a couple of different schools of thought about motive in this case and

18:58that plays into one of them. There are people involved in this who think Corey wanted some kind of relationship with Talena didn't. I will say that we beyond the sort of anecdotal musings of people who are Talena's friends. We have no reason to believe that that is true. We have no reason to doubt Corey's word on that particular issue. Second, there are people who believe that this was about money because if she got Talena out of the way she wouldn't be able to use her credit cards and get through her bank account and then there was all the stuff in the house that she could sell. Corey was very accomplished at selling stuff online. And then there are there is a school of thought which includes the prosecutor in this case that there was some kind of fight between the two of them. And Talena was going to kick Corey out of the house and Corey didn't really have anywhere to go. And so she killed Talena sort of out of anger to prevent herself from being put out of the street. I'm not pretending to know which one of those

20:02it was. But I will say that the Corey wanted more of a relationship than Talena did appears to be the one with the sort of least foundation. But it's interesting that there would be so many possible motives and yet they didn't really zero win on anything and say that's it. That's why this happened. And it did. Yeah. It's a terrible thing that happened. You got to. Yeah. You naturally want to feel as if there is some very strong motor behind it. Well, you do. And all of us, I suspect you as well sort of tend to approach murder cases looking for a motive that we can sort of understand within our own ethical framework. Right. Like why would somebody do that? Like because it doesn't make any sense to me that it was for this reason or that reason. Right. So you know, that's usually a mistake because the only frame of reference that matters in a murder is the one of the murderer. It doesn't matter what you and I would do in that situation. It matters what they would do in that situation. Yeah. And some people, you know, had sort of,

21:08you know, lived lives without consequence. You know, if you've gotten away with a lot of things in the past, even if it's not murder, you might think, well, I can get away with this too. You know, the verdict in Wisconsin suggests that Corey, you know, believed that she had already gotten away with attempted murder. And so, you know, maybe there's nothing to fear. And it may very well be that she sort of thought, you know, these rural sheriffs investigators and this DA that actually, you know, represents multiple counties, they're not going to figure this out. Well, that's a pretty common thought. Yeah. The criminal who thinks that they're a little smarter than the people who are smarter than anyone else. Yes. Yeah. Well, you know, this case never made it to a courtroom. Right. Corey, you know, Corey pled no contest. Yeah. Original first degree murder tries was to do the first degree manslaughter. I think Corey's defense team to bring a job here. I don't think there's any question about that. I mean, her journey, Rachel, that's got a person

22:10you would hire if you were in real trouble. No question about that. This is a circumstantial case. Now, as we've discussed before, circumstantial evidence can frequently be the strongest evidence there is. Right. I need to carefully down a nice road to order inevitable conclusion. Right. So there was a circumstantial case, but I thought a pretty good one. Corey, pled no contest. This is different from what you heard many times here on Dateline and elsewhere, which is something called an Alfred play, in which in an Alfred play, you acknowledge that the evidence will convict you. But you don't admit that you did it. Yeah. Right. But when you do it without an admission of guilt, and in this case, you also don't admit guilt, but you're not admitting that the evidence will convict you. You're just saying we do not contest the charges. In the end, it doesn't make very much difference to her because she's gone to prison for, you know, effectively the rest of her life. I mean, even if you only serve a small portion of that, she's not a spring chicken particularly. No, she's not a young woman. Right. Yeah. Well, we are going to take a break.

23:11And when we come back, we will address some of your questions from social media for Mr. Macawitz here. Looking to refresh your denim lineup without breaking the bank, that's where Olnay becomes in. Their denim collection has styles for everyone with great quality starting at just $22. The arc gene features a modern silhouette with a relaxed attitude. The extra high-rise, wide leg defines the waist, visually elongates the legs and creates an effortlessly chic look. Shop Olnavy genes now at Olnavy.com or visit your nearest old Navy store. Hey there. I'm Kat. I'm a college athlete. I was diagnosed with incalosing spondylitis, which caused back pain and stiffness every day. With Cocentics, I'm able to stay active. Cocentics's Secu-Kinumab is prescribed for adults with active soreatocarthritis, incalosing spondylitis, or non-radio-graphic axial spondyl oarthritis. Available in both IV infusion and self-injection. Don't use it for allergic to Cocentics. Get checked for TB before

24:16starting. Increased risk of infections and lower the ability to fight the may occur. Like TB or other serious bacterial, fungal, or viral infections. Some are fatal. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or cough, had a vaccine or plan to, or if IBD symptoms develop or worsen. Serious allergic reactions and severe exomelike skin reactions may occur. Learn more at 1-844-Cocentics orcocentics.com. Move and feel better. Ask a rheumatologist about Cocentics. Honey, that flu keeping you up? Yeah, I don't got this. You need Nike will intense flu. Under your flu symptoms with Nike will intense flu, the nighttime sniffling aching aching fever best sleep with a flu medicine. You do got this. Use this directed Keep Out of Retip Children. Well, hello everybody and we're back and Josh now is going to answer your questions about this episode. So let's do it. Josh, there are several questions. It seems to be a popular episode.

25:22I can't imagine why. It actually was John Kavanaugh on Facebook asks, what's the accent on Rachel to Lena's best friend? She's from Great Britain. Sounds it. She said that a lot of people in that part of Oklahoma couldn't place her accent. Yeah. S. Floyd on X says, yeah. I'm guessing authorities were to dig deeper into Corey's past. They might find other instances similar to this one under pressure. She doesn't act like a beginner. Well, yes, if I may call you that. Indeed. That is something that both Talina's friends and law enforcement thought about. Because there is kind of a zero to 60 element of this. Like, like, if you believe in Corey's guilt, and I mean she now has two separate verdicts, then you got to believe that she sort of never committed any

26:29crimes before making an exotic homemade poison and trying to kill the Zieglers and then, you know, beating Talina to death as she as she slept. Although she has not been charged with anything else, and I am unaware of her even being investigated for anything else. So I mean, at the moment, this is all there is. It is not, as you say, zero to 60 though. You're right. It does make people wonder is the correct answer to that. The tip in 2026 on X asks, why isn't this person wearing prison garb in the interview with Josh? Because although she was in custody at the time, they usually have access to regular clothing because of court appearances. So that wardrobes usually there. Sometimes there are attorneys supply them with clothing, which I think might have happened in this case. Let's go to Siamo and X who asks, did anyone check Margie's system for racing? They did, and the results were

27:33negative. Also, they checked Talina and the results were negative. Margie's death officially went down as a drug overdose and given his history and his physical condition, that is 100% plausible. Gotcha. Patricia and Watkins on Facebook asks, I would like to know who the other person was in this is a very good question. Who the other person was seen dumping the freezer? The former private detective said she saw two people on the truck. This is a very interesting part of the story. Janelon, the private detective, the ex-private detective, is an observant person. And her story certainly rang true, I thought. Law enforcement was not quite as persuaded as maybe you were a Patricia or maybe I was. Law enforcement thinks there was no second person that she just got it wrong.

28:37And or that she heard somebody talking on a cell phone and mistook that for a conversation between two people who were at the scene. There's also a theory, this is not a law enforcement theory, but there's also a theory put forth by some some people Talina's friends and other people who have sort of looked at the case, that one of those people that she saw was Cory. And the other one was like some homeless person who maybe was hired for, you know, 50 bucks to help move this freezer, but who did not know what it was they were moving or why or what was inside. But the short answer to your question is law enforcement is not convinced that there was a second person and if there was a second person, that person has never been located or identified. And by the way,

29:38Cory argues that of course neither one of those people is her that that's Marty and somebody else, somebody that Marty brought along to do it. Marty's description I think doesn't match with what Janel and saw. But again, you know, I mean, I wouldn't this a cancer not always 100% reliable. Well, I believe you've answered all the questions Josh. I mean, you could answer some more except I have none for you. Oh, that's too bad. I like it when you ask me questions. That's it for talking date line this week. Remember, if you have questions about our stories, you can always DM us your audio or your video on social media at date line NBC or you can leave us a voicemail. That number is 2124135252 for a chance to be featured right here on our podcast. You answer that number, don't you? Isn't that your your dust number? That's my voice, yeah. Yeah, it's my it's my AI voice and answers that number. No, actually, that's not true.

30:41Not true at all. Don't believe that. And please don't forget to check out Leicester's brand new podcast series before and after. He talks to people whose lives are transformed in a single moment. In this latest episode, he talks to Brittany Griner, the WNB a player who is detained for six months in a Russian prison. He goes on the side of my bag and pulls out a vape pin. And as soon as I saw that my whole soul drops down to my feet. You can get that episode now wherever you get your podcasts and to get early access to future episodes, add free, just subscribe to date line premium. And of course, you can watch the video version of talking date line on YouTube, peacock or the NBC news app. And we will see you Friday his on date line on NBC. Always look forward to that. So take care of yourselves and see you later. See you. Hey there. I'm Kat. I'm a college athlete. I was diagnosed with

31:46incolosing spondylitis, which caused back pain and stiffness every day. With Cocentics, I'm able to stay active. Cocentics Secu-Kinumab is prescribed for adults with active psoriatic arthritis, incolosing spondylitis, or non-radiographic axial spondylor arthritis. Available in both IV infusion and self-injection. Don't use a for logic to Cocentics. Get checked for TB before starting. Increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur. Like TB or other serious bacterial, fungal or viral infections, some are fatal. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or cough, had a vaccine or plan to, or if IBD symptoms develop or worsen. Serious allergic reactions and severe eczema-like skin reactions may occur. Learn more at 1-844-Cocentics orCocentics.com. Move and feel better. Ask a rheumatologist about Cocentics.