Shostakovich Symphony No. 6

0:00Hello and welcome to Sticky Nuts, the Classical Music Podcast. My name is Joshua Weilerstein, I'm a conductor, and I'm the Music Director of the Orchist Roneschino de Lille and the Chief Conductor of the All-Borx Symphony. This podcast is for anyone who loves classical music, works in the field, or is just getting ready to dive in to this amazing world of incredible music. Before we get started, I want to thank my new Patreon sponsors, Marilyn Ross, Amber, Nijinga, Kathleen, Christian, Sarah Christen, Thomas, and Sean, and all of my other Patreon sponsors for making season 10 possible. If you'd like to support the show, please head over to patreon.com slash Sticky Nuts Podcast. And if you are a fan of the show, please take a moment to give us a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It is greatly appreciated. I am in North Shaping Sweden this week doing a really exciting program that I've wanted to do for a long time.

1:00The first half is Prokofi of Symphonia Concert Hunt with Andreas Brantelid, the fantastic cellist. And then the second half is a program that I've come up with that is a bit tied to my obsession with history. And it is a program that basically goes from before World War I to after. We start with Strauss's Emperor Waltz's, and then we play a piece by the English composer Frederick Septimus Kelly who was killed during World War I. It's a piece for strings called in Memorium Rupert Brook, in Memorium of the Poet, Rupert Brook, who also was killed during the war. And it's a really incredibly touching, beautiful piece. And then we finish the program with Lavalz. So it's a very kind of dark program, but one that I've been wanting to do for a really long time, I love to kind of tell these stories a little bit like we do on the show during my concerts. So I really am looking forward to that concert, which is on Saturday. For this week's episode, I want to thank Sheldon for sponsoring it on Patreon, on Shostakovich's

2:01sixth symphony piece. Probably you're not that familiar with. Here we go. Demetri Shostakovich, quote, I have set myself a task, fraught with tremendous responsibility, to express and sound the immortal image of Lenin, as a great son of the Russian people and as a leader of the masses. I have received numerous letters from all over the Soviet Union with regard to my future symphony. The most important advice contained therein was to make considerable use of musical folklore. In the massively consequential year of 1939, Shostakovich used these words to launch his sixth symphony. The piece was meant to have soloists and a chorus along with the orchestra, perhaps a nod, to his second and third symphonies which were essentially propaganda pieces. Shostakovich even promised to use the poem Vladimir Liyich Lenin by Vladimir Mayakovsky as

3:02a basis for his choral text. The Soviet public eagerly awaited this new symphony, which was inevitably going to be compared with his fifth symphony. The piece that had brought Shostakovich back into good graces with the Soviet government and which remains one of Shostakovich's most popular works. But is also one of his most complex and nuanced pieces underneath its relatively conservative surface. But whether Shostakovich ever actually planned to write this gigantic Lenin symphony during this period is highly doubtful, as no sketches have ever turned up of that symphony. Instead, Shostakovich pivoted publicly to describing his new symphony this way, quote, the musical character of the sixth symphony will differ from the mood and emotional tone of the fifth symphony, in which moments of tragedy and tension were characteristic. In my latest symphony, music of a contemplative and lyrical order predominates. I wanted to convey in it the moods of spring, joy, youth.

4:05As you can see there, Shostakovich wasn't actually saying much there about the content of the symphony, if anything at all. He was leaving things deliberately ambiguous and actually ambiguous as a pretty good description of this highly enigmatic symphony. Everything about this symphony is slightly off. It is in three movements, not the typical four, and it starts with a massive slow movement. The two remaining movements are fast and significantly shorter, lasting combined, not even as long as the first movement. It was written in 1939, supposedly a year of military triumph for the Soviet Union, considering the Stalin packed with Hitler, which allowed Hitler to invade Poland and to launch World War II. And yet there is not a hint of military triumphalism in it. In short, this symphony confused a lot of people and has always received mixed reviews. Whether from musicologists trying to fit the symphony into the traditional, everything in Shostakovich is about Stalin narrative, or from Soviet critics of the time trying

5:08to fit the symphony into socialist, realist aesthetics. In short, descriptions about Shostakovich always attempt to put him into a box, silent dissident, or Soviet stooge, hero, or coward, etc. The truth is of course complicated, and this symphony is a great example of the eternal enigma that is Shostakovich. Today on this Patreon-sponsored episode, I'll take you through this wonderful symphony from a musical perspective. Trying to parse its unusual form, its lyrical first movement, and the wild madcap dash of the final two movements. All this and more is coming right up on Sticky Notes. I want to quickly recap where Shostakovich was in his musical life before we get into the

6:25sixth symphony. But I also highly recommend listening to my episodes about Shostakovich's fourth and fifth symphonies as well if you want the full picture, since the historical context and political context of Shostakovich's music is always so important to understand. But the short version of it is this. Shostakovich had regained his favor with the Soviet authorities in 1937 with his fifth symphony, a piece that was drastically different in style than the music he had been writing just prior. A style that had gotten him into very hot water with the Soviet government. In 1936, his opera Lady Macbeth of Mityensk had been condemned as bourgeois formalism, and his life was very much in danger for the period in between this denunciation and the premiere of the fifth symphony. He withdrew his already completed fourth symphony from publication due to its dense, innovative and sometimes radical style, and quickly wrote a fifth symphony that was much more harmonically conservative, and which also featured the mandated happy ending

7:31that would end the symphony in a blaze of triumphant glory. Now whether that ending is actually triumphant or not has been the subject of questions and fierce debates since the premiere, and the answer like everything was Shostakovich is ambiguous and highly complex. Again, check out my show on the fifth symphony for a lot more about that ending. But whatever the ending was in reality, it passed muster with the Stalin government, and Shostakovich was enjoying renewed success and adulation from the public, though he would never recover fully personally from this period of cultural exile and physical danger. As he began the sixth symphony, Shostakovich was enjoying some calm in his personal life, and as I said, had some breathing room from the government, which perhaps accounts for the unusual form of the sixth symphony. Shostakovich clearly had gone back at least somewhat to the experimental ideas he was throwing around with such glee in his fourth symphony which would not actually be performed

8:32for decades. Let's go into this sixth symphony now which begins with this huge first movement, which is being around 20 minutes in most performances. Leonard Bernstein calls this movement a hypnotizing meditation, and also talks about how it is not a movement that follows any sort of typical form. Instead, we are launched into something that feels more like a fantasy than anything else. The symphony begins as you just heard with a long theme played by the violas, cellos, English horn, clarinets, and bassoons.

9:33This low and middle register color is a Shostakovich favorite and is highly expressive, featuring huge leaps of register like octaves that are actually fairly unusual for Shostakovich, who usually prefers smaller intervals in his themes. But those leaps are serving a purpose. They make the occurrences where Shostakovich does use smaller intervals, even more painfully expressive. Listen to the entrance now of the elaboration of this melody. At first, harmonically and orchestrationally, it sounds almost like subalias. But soon those half steps start creeping in, and we hear that unmistakable Shostakovich intensity coming to the fore. This is followed by a highly important motive, a falling seventh that is punctuated with a screeching trill.

11:03Bernstein compares this to Bach in the sense of using that dissonant interval for such expressive means, and I can definitely hear it. These two elements that expressive octave and the diminished seventh trill form the core of the opening theme. And the intensity at the opening of the symphony continues to grow, as Shostakovich brings in nearly the entire orchestra minus the percussion for another version of this lament. Clearly, the proportions of this movement are going to be massive. The models in this movement seem to be a bit of Bach and a lot of Tchaikovsky and Mahler.

12:29Why those two masters? Well, as Bernstein again points out, there's another sixth symphony in B minor that's pretty well known, and that's Tchaikovsky's Pathetic Symphony, which was the first symphony to end with a slow movement. Well, Bernstein posits that Shostakovich picks up where Tchaikovsky left off, with a sixth symphony in B minor that begins with a long slow movement, which is the central emotional component of the piece. And why Mahler? Well, with Shostakovich, Mahler is always lurking around, and there are many Mahler references in this movement. But the first is here, the sense of collapse. We've reached an emotional fever pitch less than two minutes into this symphony, but Shostakovich turns away and allows the music to collapse into itself, a typical Mahler trait. And it leads to an exploration of the seventh slash trail theme, played expressively again in a naked and plain way that really emphasizes the Bach connection.

13:52This theme seems to have a lot of profound emotion line beneath its surface, but that surface is a little bit more opaque than we are used to with Shostakovich. There is less defined tonal harmony, less obvious emotionality. And I think this has a lot to do with this piece's lack of popularity. Even though the music is clearly expressive, it's also enigmatic, like a wall is being put up around it. But Shostakovich inexorably builds its intensity, almost willing it into being, encouraged along by rolling triplets, the winds take the theme over from the strings, and Shostakovich begins to widen the emotional palette. Having the high winds play the theme while the low strings play the triplet accompaniment. It's like that wall is being built higher and higher

14:54while the theme tries to break through wherever it can. What's really interesting about this first section is that it doesn't really correspond to any form that one would normally recognize. It's definitely not sent out a form as these two ideas, the octave theme and the trill theme, just keep alternating back and forth. It's not a rondo, it's really a fantasy where these two themes appear in different guises, taking us wherever

16:00Shostakovich wants to go. The violins enter with a powerfully expressive version of the trill theme until a lonely piccolo, accompanied by the harp as well as by the lowest instrument in the wind section, the contrabassoon, there's the high low thing again, another very mallar-like idea, and that piccolo takes up the octave theme. Yet another mallarian trait here is the use of extremely small groupings of instruments, despite the large orchestra being available on stage. At this moment we hear only the piccolo, the harp, and the second violins, maybe 14 of the 90 people on stage.

17:06One of the most stunning appearances of the theme now appears. The cellos play the octave theme over an ostinato, repeated accompaniment in the second violins and violas, and a counter melody in the first violins. But the key here is the harmony. After quite a while of dissonance and a lack of hermatic clarity, suddenly we hear Bb major quickly followed by Bb minor, tragic, but tonal. It gives this theme a new level of expressive intensity. Something astonishing, nearly six minutes into this 20 minute movement, is that we have had

18:21almost no development of these two themes, just simple repetitions. With instrumentation changes galore, but no changes to the themes themselves. This will finally begin to change here as the violins take the beginning of the trill theme and start to cycle it again and again until a huge outburst of trills marks the first major climax of the movement.

19:33Now if you're a Schuss de Kovic fan, you know that climactic moments are part and parcel of a Schuss de Kovic symphony. But this one doesn't quite reach the pinnacle of those famous Schuss de Kovic moments, and it's intentional. Once again, we have that molar idea of collapse. If we're talking structurally, this marks the end of the first section of the piece. And if you think things have been spare and chamber music like before, you haven't heard anything yet. As over an eerie trail in the violas, the English horn begins what seems like it should be a funeral march, but something is off about it.

20:39Bernstein claims that this is another homage to Moller and his love of funeral marches, and that dotted rhythm idea is going to be pervasive in this following section. The march idea fades away quite quickly and it turns into a lamenting winding line, again with just the English horn and the violas and cellos, the loneliness, the stillness, it's all palpable here. The fluting clarinet now play enigmatic wandering solos. These solos remind me a bit of the slow

21:41movement of the fifth symphony, but the key is that the music is much less harmonically stable than in the fifth. It's a brave choice for Schuss de Kovic who knew that harmonic complexity was something that the authorities were not a fan of, but he embraces it anyway. The strings begin something that feels like it's building to a trademark Schuss de Kovic developmental climax where everything plus the kitchen sink is thrown at an emotional

22:43outpouring of epic proportions. Think the developments of the first movements of the fifth and the eighth symphonies, for example. In some ways this is one of those moments, but it is very much an expressive one, rather than one based on volume alone. It is based on the dotted rhythm melody that the English horn introduced, and it builds to an expressive climax, but yet not one that feels at all, like we've reached the true emotional peak of the movement. And yet it collapses right away and is answered by more dotted rhythms.

23:44The we hear more lonely wind solos soon taken over by the first violinists, playing that molar march rhythm again. This leads to a slow rise in register.

25:09all in B flat minor and then to one of the scariest surprises and all of Shostakovich's music. But it is not a whipcrack percussion note or a sudden fortissimo, this is a quiet surprise. The B flat minor is suddenly turned into an E, a tritone. We hear the percussion for the first time with a ghostly Tam Tam entrance. This shift of harmony should create a feeling of dread in you. And the only response from the orchestra is a true fantasy,

26:10a dream from the flute. The two flutes play in tandem for this minute's long solo, where nothing happens. It's as if we're watching a lonely bird alone on stage. We're 13 minutes into this 20 minute movement and I think it's now clear that we are never really going anywhere at all. This stasis has defined this movement and it continues here in its most profound way.

27:13None of this feels symphonic. As Bernstein says, it feels almost like a personal confession. There is one thread that has continued throughout the movement and that is the trills. The trills are heavily present throughout this static section and as the violins take over the lonely flute theme, it seems once again that we might be at the beginning of a build-up. This impression is heightened by two things, the return of the actual trill theme in the violins and the reappearance of the timpani playing the march rhythm.

28:27But that lonely flute will not go away. It's lament, it's fantasy, it's dream continues. Until one of those Shostakovich orchestration moments that really makes you realize just how good of a technician Shostakovich was. One of the things that I always find frustrating about Shostakovich commentary is that in the obsession with finding a connection to Stalin in every note he ever wrote, we sometimes lose the time to talk about just what a wonderful composer Shostakovich was. Think about where we are in this movement. 15 minutes have gone by, so little has happened and yet we are hooked by this enigmatic music. That's compositional skill and then here is the flute

29:30finally does fade away. Shostakovich goes back to his trill motive, but in a way that you can barely perceive until it happens. Shostakovich has the trill come in on three different octaves, offset by a couple of beats. The effect is chilling. And then the biggest surprise of all. Yes, E major. It's a moment where one quietly gasps and it's all because of the harmonic

30:50instability Shostakovich has been playing with for practically the entire movement. What the first horn ends up playing is a version of the trill theme, but it's transformed to the point where you don't really realize it's happening. It leads us back to a kind of recapitulation of the opening octave theme, though as I've been saying, form is not really the way to follow this movement. The way to follow it is to look out for the three themes, the octave theme, the trill theme, and the march rhythm. But honestly, the best way to follow it is to not consciously follow it at all. Just let it lead you on its winding road. This is not a clear recapitulation because remember, this isn't Sonata form.

32:01And Shostakovich is now transforming the octave theme in two distinct ways. One, it is more harmonically stable, and two, it has more dotted rhythms, a callback to the march rhythm. It also seamlessly transitions into the trill theme, though interestingly, this is one time where the actual trill doesn't appear. We're coming to the end of this movement, and Shostakovich does not stray from his course. The trills return and the first violins play a hopeless and tragic version of the march theme

33:05in B minor. As it slowly fades away, Shostakovich marks the strings to play morendo, literally. Dying away.

34:13What is one to make of this movement? 20 minutes long, no real actual climax, music that never really reaches a fortissimo dynamic, harmonically unstable, formally unclear, it's unique, in every sense. And yet I find it intoxicating. It's Shostakovich's greatest talent that he writes music that you find yourself unable to stop listening to. He grabs you and holds on, whether it's the lyricism of the octave melody, the strange Bachian quality of the trill theme, or the lamenting march, as forbidding and tragic as anything in Moller. It's a remarkable movement, but one that I can completely understand being taken aback by when you first listen to it. And if you're ready to continue to be surprised, check out the second and third movements to come.

35:36The second movement as you've just heard couldn't be more of a contrast to any of the music we have heard so far. We hear an E flat clarinet solo, Shostakovich loves these auxiliary instruments, and we'll get a huge example of this in this movement. There's something very weird about this movement, like a waltz, but off. There's tons of strange harmonic ideas as well, as if Shostakovich is throwing the kitchen sink at us in a different way than we expect. The

36:56strings take over, but again, this whole movement emphasizes the chamber textures, chamber music textures in the music. There's lots of nervous energy as well. We know of Shostakovich's character as very nervous. He apparently was always shaking a little bit. He talked very fast. He had a very ironic and brittle sense of humor. His daughter talked about how nervous Shostakovich was all the time, and I think one can hear a little bit of that character in this music. There are also outbursts of borderline violence in the strings, but still, everything is under wraps. Now we have the first entrance of the percussion, xylophone, with violins. This is a color that

37:59sassons inaugurated with his dance macabre, so immediately one thinks of skeletons bouncing around. Then the piccolo and E flat clarinet dominate the wind instrument themes, those auxiliary instruments again, instruments with a sound that is a little bit more unique. There's a relic energy here, but there's nothing really positive or joyful about it. In fact, it's kind of hard to pin down the character of this music. Is it satire, is it ironic, is it genuine, is it just a little strange? Curious what you think. Then there is a huge contrast of using the lowest instruments in the orchestra like the bassoons, to begin a new buildup with a rumbling bass clarinet and the basses. This is then picked up by

39:05the highest instruments like the E flat clarinet. Shostakovich is using register and orchestration again to continue our interest in this very unstable music. We just don't know where we're going. Finally, we get a real Shostakovich climax with some of his characteristic melodic work, a huge fanfare that feels like film music. We know of course also that Shostakovich loved writing film music and was a fantastic film composer. At some point I'll take you through Shostakovich's music for the film Hamlet. This is a little bit of that kind of music here.

40:07But as soon as it arrives, it leaves. This moment is in that way similar to the first moment. Collapse is everything. And now the harmonies are even stranger, they are borderline A tonal, which is very unusual for Shostakovich of this period. Now we have more orchestration gains that piccolo and flute play together over the harp, playing in ostinato Waltz rhythm. Things are a little bit more tonal now and they seem like they're winding down.

41:12Only for a new idea to begin in the clarinet's bass clarinet and bassoons, over a driving rhythm in the cellos and basses, this feels more threatening, more bitter, more violent. And he starts to add more instruments as this violent theme is passed from the cellos to the violins and the brass start to take over the driving rhythm. This is an immensely powerful and thrilling buildup, again a little bit like his film music.

42:16Shostakovich writes an epic climax here in triple 4 T-Semal. You know that a climactic moment is coming when Shostakovich writes for T-Semal a sparse evil. He gives this to the horns, which means he wants a sound that is very intense, but not exactly aggressive yet. He's finding new lenses to prolong the arrival. And finally we get there. The snare drum and timpani take over the driving rhythm

43:16and the entire orchestra plays a terrifying dance of death in unison. The timpani seems to be blasting away until it just collapses. And we begin again, like nothing has happened. Another climax, another collapse. Now we hear a flute and bass clarinet duo, another unusual combination. The driving rhythm returns, but it's much less threatening now, as a huge piccolo solo appears.

44:24Everything is off in this movement. It's like looking at a scared soul through a looking glass. We hear wind outbursts over Pini's Semos strings. We hear beautiful wind solos that end always with huge accents like they can't even take themselves fully seriously. And just like the first movement, this enigmatic, strange winding down music

45:35never gets wound back up again. It just dances away and it's strange way until it arrives in D Major, the parallel major of B minor, and with a chromatic scale, the music just evaporates. The movement is barely seven minutes long and throughout there is a feeling of eerie discomfort, like something is wrong with this music and we can't figure out what it is. As the third movement begins, we have been truly thrown off balanced by this point. A long, confessional enigmatic slow movement followed by a short, fast, and emotionally ambiguous

46:38scared soul. Where are we headed now? This movement is the only movement of the three to have a somewhat clear form. Though again, I wouldn't necessarily listen to it that way. The form is a kind of rondo, with one theme coming back again and again. You can see that theme is a kind of grounding device, but I don't think Shusta Kobach meant for this movement to be really taken that seriously. The beginning of the theme is clearly a reference to Rossini's William Tellovercher. This is a reference Shusta Kobach would come back to extensively in his 15th Symphony,

47:44and it's not the last time Shusta Kobach will quote preempt one of his symphonies in this movement. This music is full of surprises, whip crack interruptions, and a kind of explosive character, but all underneath the surface. The B theme is very funny, full of huge intervalic leaps and offbeat accents that make it sound genuinely silly, and full of Shusta Kobach irony.

48:55There's also a reference here, I think, to Mozart's 40th Symphony. Listen to the beginning of the last movement of that symphony. And now to Shusta Kobach. I'm pretty sure that's a little homage to Mozart right there, but maybe I'm crazy. Whatever it is, it's full of that ironic humor that Shusta Kobach was famous for in his personal life,

49:56and also in his music. We now hear a return to that William Tell music, and Shusta Kobach now starts to develop it. He even references a theme that would become much more famous than this symphony. Shusta Kobach connoisseurs listening to this will recognize it right away. To me, this is a reference to the festive overture. A piece Shusta Kobach famously wrote in about 45 minutes, and is full of some of his most bombastic and cliched music. This kind of forced cheer is present in this music, whether or not Shusta Kobach was once again

51:04preemptively using a motive that he would later exploit. But these ironic references to other pieces or to motives that he would later use is a hallmark of later Shusta Kobach, and it brings me to the next reference as well. This is a reference to Shusta Kobach's soon-to-come 9th symphony. These are kind of Shusta Kobach light motifs, and this strange symphonies position between

52:06the legendary 5th and 7th symphonies leads me to a theory about this symphony which I'll get to at the end of the show today. The next interlude is pure Shusta Kobach dark humor. A lumbering bassoon, contrabassooning a bass, hop around in a Waltz rhythm like a thundering herd of elephants. It's awkward, funny, and a little unsettling. In other words, it's Shusta Kobach. The Waltz music becomes progressively more violent and out of control. The brass start to intrude and then come in with an almost comically major key fanfare, which Shusta Kobach immediately runs away from as fast as possible to more dissonant music.

53:26Finally, we arrive at the big Shusta Kobach climax we've been waiting for during the entire piece, a raucous and ironic celebration featuring pounding timpani percussion and brass fanfares. The relentless energy though makes it not feel celebratory, only breathless and even forced. And then again, collapse into a strange bassoon solo which is the first moment of lyricism in a while.

54:37Soon taken over by the Piccolo Enflute who play a bit in the enigmatic character of the second movement. The music is always threatening to be a theme of its own, but it feels like a transition rather than something new. And in fact, it was a transition, because a solo violin finally takes over from the winds and winds its way to the recapitulation of the William Tell theme.

55:45The second theme comes back even more ironic than before. Listen for those offbeat accents. Again, its placement after the violence of the middle section changes its character. It's like we heard the William Tell music distorted through the pain and weight of history, and now we're hearing the second theme in the same way. The festive overture music returns now accompanied by a cheerful triangle.

56:47Is this cheerful music? It's certainly enthusiastic, but just like in the second movement, it feels like something is a bit off about it. Like it's happy, but almost too happy, and at the same time, slightly too dissonant. It's a very strange combination, but it's palpable here. Hypertonality followed by dissonance, sometimes milliseconds apart. The horns and then the trombones then come in with music that is truly clownish.

58:03The irony and the satire is deepening with every passing measure. The romp begins to get going ever more rockously as we start the kota, and in this way this music reminds me of Chekhovsky's fourth symphony. In that symphony, Chekhovsky famously wrote this about the last movement. If within yourself you find no reasons for joy, then look at others. Go among the people, see how they can enjoy themselves, surrendering themselves wholeheartedly to joyful feelings. I think there's an element of that here. This is full-gish music, almost like the socialist realist music that was demanded of Chekhovsky, but with his own acidic touch.

59:04Now he begins to bring everything together, clownish brass, William Tell Violins, wild wind interjections and irony on top of irony, all until the tympani hammers us into B major for an absurd, rembunctious and wild ending. The second part of Chekhovsky's text describing the last movement of his fourth symphony is this quote, No sooner have you managed to forget yourself and to be carried away by the spectacle of the joys of others, then irrepressible fate again appears and reminds you of yourself.

1:00:09This is a powerful image for me with this symphony. As I said, the sixths position between the famous fifth and seventh makes this symphony even more of an outlier. It almost doesn't feel like a symphony at all, and yet in many ways its character is much more similar to music that Chustokovic would write both earlier in his life during his radical avant-garde phase and his much later music, which was much more spare, empty and bleak. Chustokovic is most famous for the works he wrote in a slightly more populous style, the fifth and seventh symphonies for sure, but also the tenth and the cello concerto among many others. But these pieces might have been farther away from Chustokovic's character than we might think. Perhaps this sixth symphony is closer to Chustokovic, with all of its ironic references, its humor, and its enigmatic emptiness, especially in the first movement. This is a symphony I didn't know that well before I was asked to do this show, and I'm really glad I got to know it, because I think to know it is to know an

1:01:12essential thing about Chustokovic. Not all of his music is about Stalin, and not all of his music is like the fifth and seventh symphonies. The irony and subtle sarcasm here, along with the genuine pathos of some of this music, is perhaps the real Chustokovic, enigmatic, complex, resisting any interpretation. Essentially, the way Chustokovic liked it. Thanks so much to Sheldon for sponsoring today's show on Chustokovic 6, and thank you to Charlie Kozela, who mixed today's episode. And thank you for listening to Sticking Nuts today. We'll have some more exciting stuff for you in a couple of weeks, so don't miss our next episode. If you like what you heard today, please feel free to rate and review the show on Apple podcasts or Spotify, and really helps the show gain more visibility. Please send any questions to Sticking Nuts podcast at gmail.com, and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. And if you'd like to

1:02:15support the podcast monetarily, just head over to patreon.com slash Sticking Nuts podcast. Thanks, and I'll talk to you again after a while.