Sam Short reacts to breaking Grant Hackett & Ian Thorpe's Records

0:00Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Propulsion Swimming Podcast. I hope you're keeping well. We are right in the thick of some crazy, crazy racing that's going over on in Asian games. We are going to have a review of that meet coming very, very soon. But this is a podcast that if you listen to Propulsion Swimming Podcast, you will know I've wanted for a little while now because I've been a huge fan of this swimmer over the course of. As soon as we last spoke to him on the podcast, which was like four years ago, massive fan of his attitude towards racing, attitude towards training and this summer he was all conquering in the 4, 8 and 1500. So it makes some of the fastest times we have ever seen and yeah, I cannot wait to finally chat again with the great Australian Sam Shaw. Yeah, after breaking records such as thoughts and hackets, massive Australian names or even swimming names I suppose because they all glow wall names and begin a smarter summer because last time we had him on, he was very much training all guns blazing.

1:02He still does off sea, but now, you know, rest recuperation, nutrition, he'll talk about that for a little bit as well, comes into play now and is very insightful actually. And so yeah, it was a very good episode as it always is when Sam comes on. Yeah, and if you can tell, it's dark here. That's big. Not because we're recording later night, we're recording at like five, six in the morning because of Aussie time zones. It's always fun when we're in the UK trying to get these under our belt, but I'm very glad we got up early to have this conversation. The eyes are quite heavy, you know, but just a little bit of it. I've not managed to make a coffee yet. I need one. Sit back, enjoy and listen to one of the world's fastest free-starlers in Sam Shaw. 75% of women who seek menopause care don't receive it. The lying awake at 3am, wondering what's happening to your body, ends now. Midi is virtual care built for women in perimenopause and menopause, with clinicians who specialize in women's health.

2:03Plus, it's covered by most major insurances. Getting started is easy. You can book your first visit with a clinician right away. Midlife needs midi. Visit joinmidi.com to book your first visit today. That's joinmidi.com. Insurance coverage varies. Your plan for coverage. Your call has been forwarded to an automatic voice message system. A missed call doesn't feel like anything. No red flag, no notification screaming at you. It just disappears into your call log. And nine times out of ten, that was someone ready to hand you money. That's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo. Spelled QUO. The business phone system built so you never miss a call. Here's what I like about it. All your calls, texts and voice mails live in one place. So anyone on your team can pick up a conversation, see the full history and respond fast. No more, wait, who talked to this customer last? And if you're worried about after hours leads slipping through, Quo's optional built-in AI agent can answer questions and even book appointments while your team's offline.

3:04It's the number one rated business phone system on G2, and over 90,000 businesses already trusted to stay reachable. Money is on the line. Always say hello with Quo. Try Quo for free. Let's get 20% off your first six months when you go to Quo.com slash tech. That's QUO.com slash tech. Hello, I'm Monica Reinagle, host of the Nutrition Diva podcast. Summer is here and with it, the hot and sticky weather. A morning working in the garden, or maybe on the golf course, can leave you more depleted than you realize. And plain water isn't always the most efficient way to restore the balance. That's where liquid IV comes in. This science-backed formula is clinically proven to hydrate faster than water alone. Whether you're exercising, playing outside, or simply surviving a summer heatwave, it's an easy way to stay hydrated. Shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquidiv, hydration that goes wherever life takes you. Please welcome on to the podcast this week, all conquering this summer.

4:05Sam, Sam, how are you doing over in Australia right now? I'm sure it's not quite so early for you. No, it's actually beautiful time of the day right now. 2 p.m. So, no, thank you for having me on the course. Yeah, no massive congratulations this summer. You'd essentially won everything. Could you have hoped for a better summer? No, results wise, it's been everything I wanted. I won all my main events everywhere. So super, super positive. And I've had a lot of fun the whole year. As well as winning events then, the times. The times have stood out. It's gone beyond just getting a gold at points. Because obviously, Commonwealth Games, you... I'm not saying you didn't need to swim as fast to win the golds, but it felt like there was a little bit more to the swims than just I'm going to win the gold in this event. Yeah, definitely. I have one on my races and I do always push myself because I have big goals in my head and times I want to achieve.

5:06And I've found myself probably racing just myself most of the time at a lot of these big races. So, I'm not complaining. You know, I want the gold medal. But yeah, I do have some targets and Asian Games being swum right now. So, seeing a lot of times being swum and I'm like, holy moly, that's insane. And yeah, it just makes me want to get back into the water and race them all. I haven't been someone who's race so much to summer obviously at Commonwealth Games and Pampax. Is it easy seeing other times being swam or other meets? Nah, I hate it. Okay. Well, I love swimming. I love watching swimming and good swimming. But when I've competed throughout the year, I'm a competitive guy. I want to get in there and race as well, like see how I match up against the best. That's why I do it. So, I always pay attention. I can't help myself. Just because I'm a fan of the sport. Yeah, sometimes I'm here just like slogging out boring sessions. People are over there taping racing fast.

6:06You know, get a bit of pho-mo. Is it then sort of frustrating from your point of view that there's not worlds every year? For example, whether the best can't race the best every year. We spoke about this on a live stream. So, obviously we had Communist Pampax, Asian Games, all those sort of continental events. But the best aren't racing the best at a single meet. So, that frustrates you. Yeah, it does. A lot. I wish there was a world championship every year to be honest. I went for every four years. So, that can't come quick enough. I've had race-fantastic people all year, but I've made a race any of the Germans. You know, a lot of the Chinese won't tell me, I don't think, what tapered with Pampax. And, you know, it'd be cool to race more of the people from Asia. But typically those Europeans, I really want to race more. And coming from Australia, I don't really have the opportunity to race too many people. And it's a travel a long way away. So, it's quite cool when a lot of people have to travel a long way away, because the nowadays, you know, what I'm doing all the time. Yeah. How was that travel this summer then, as we start to reflect on racing that happened this

7:10year? It was a lot like, I think we did it really well. We trapped for Commonwealth Games. We had trials a couple of weeks at home, still training. And then we traveled to Germany for a stage in camp. And it's like rear just, I think we're there for just done on two weeks and then we went to Glasgow. I still don't think that's probably enough to fully get over the jet lake, because the time zone is still, you know, three quarters of a day. Yeah, it's a long time. And then we had Glasgow and then we flew from Glasgow all the way to San Diego for a staging camp. That's where we'll be doing our pre-limpic staging camp, which was awesome. So it was pretty much a big rehearsal for that. So I always just love in every bit. And the facility there is unbelievable. We stayed at the college there and then we went from there, it's like an hour, an hour, two hour bus ride to Irvine. So we went there and raced and then flew home and yeah, a lot of time on a plane. You know, getting back into the US is just one big 50-hour flight. And until Europe is even worse, we've got to go like 12 hours, not eight hours, and

8:13until like a 14 or 12, 13 hours. Budapest next year will be hard. Budapest is hard to get through in the first show. Okay. So how do you, as your self-analysis training team, deal with that? Is that then maybe two days of just not swimming and just fully recovering on sleep and catching up on that? Some people do that. I love just getting into moving. I feel better when I move. Like, it doesn't have to be hard swim, but I prefer to touch the water as quick as possible. But I've also learned if I can't, or don't have access to a pool, I don't have free care. Like, pretty much by two weeks, week before a competition, it works pretty much done. So like, just give it to the blocks at that point. I'll be out of perform regardless. But yeah, it's mainly about getting your sleep right, to be honest. You say the work's done. What was that work this year that hadn't into the major competition? What does that look like? It's been a lot. It's been awesome. You know, after Singapore, you know, I got really, I was still pretty sick in Singapore

9:13and I was just super frustrated. I was ready to go on Singapore and I did get sick with a couple of things. And then I just kept training all the way through and then I went to had a big block of work from like October and November to December. Like, I just did tons of volume and then I started the year off with Open Morning Nationals just because I wanted to get some long reps in. And then we had altitude in February, March and then I raced in Westmore and I cracked out some very fast swims for March. I think I was like 740 and 343 and 1452 off like no race pace training. And then we went, came back and did more hard work into Nationals, raced a bit faster there. And then after that we did a massive race pace block all the way through our trials. And I was doing some of the stuff I've never done before. If I was really, really proud of some of the sets I was throwing around and I was very confident going into trials and Sydney. And then, yeah, ended up performing very good. And then, yeah, I went to Glasgow and Lairway and the rest of history.

10:15Yeah. Seriously impressive. You mentioned about struggling with illnesses for example for Olympic campaign and Singapore worlds as well. How much of those experiences kind of changed you mentally made you stronger? Yeah, they definitely do make you stronger. What made me stronger. I don't think that I'm completely necessary for my career but I have learnt a lot. I've learnt a lot from them. I don't know my body, how I approach things. Also that hiccups do come along the way regardless. So I've had a massive focus this last eight, no, a year pretty much on my nutrition, like diet, nutrition, body weight, body calm, all that sort of stuff and way more aware of leading into competition. I've been working really closely with my dietitian on that. So just to stop me getting sick, so in the day your body is, you know, you've got to treat your body like a forming a one car, you know. So I've always been alright but just taken that up a notch and I've really been really robust through the season. A lot of travel, a lot of hard work and your body is very susceptible when you're doing

11:15the kind of work that distance some is or middle distance some does do. So it has been pretty hard getting sick. For me, like whenever I get off the back of a flight I always feel like, ugh. So the amount of travel that you have, like Australians have to do no matter what it is for a competition unless it's Brisbane 2032 when it's in your backyard, it's, you're kind of just, you're exposed to a little bit more, in my opinion. Yeah, 100% you know, we're like the long haul flights is just a bit of germs, you know, you always got kids and someone in the plane has always got some illness from somewhere. So you're just going to, it is hard, you've got to manage it. That's just the fact of the sport, you know, which got to get on with it. Yeah, you never feel 100% coming off those long haul flights and sometimes I wear an order ring most of the time for tracking that sort of stuff. But honestly, I remember getting off the plane in Chicago because I did the Westmont Pro series and then went into altitude and we like, I was so jet lagged, I was getting maybe

12:20two hours, three hours of sleep, it's around there about four days before that meet and my ring was saying like 30% ready, like staying a bit like sick and then I ended up swimming really fast, like really fast. So from that point onwards, I've kind of taken the poor rings scores with a grand assault because I know I can really fast regardless. Yeah. It sounds like you're a man who doesn't need a huge amount of rest. Like because you've just said off the back of Singapore, you've trained flat out till Aussie trials and we've just spoken to you before we went live and you still have trained through given that short-core season is starting so soon. Is there a part of you that just doesn't like a day off? I feel happy when I train and like exercise in the morning, if I could run well or look good running, I would do that more instead of training all the time in the off season but I prefer swimming. I feel better swimming, I'm more confident after I swim in the morning, you know, you fit healthy but also just sets me up for the year ahead, you know, I'll break our few

13:22Olympics but I hate starting from scratch like no worse feeling than being so unfit and then everyone's just smoking and training. Sorry, the sirens going on ass. Sorry, I hope it's not on our end. Yeah. No. But if I said Brisbane, that's actually going to be like one kilometer away from my house, the Olympics. Oh nice. Oh wow. I'm getting built right now. But yeah, I prefer to train the whole time. I just feel better for it more in shape and then I can kind of lift off from there. Are you a swimmer that has a coach that has to tell you to slow down or even stop training sometimes because you're so excited, I guess, to get in the water and train all the time? Yeah, I was really bad at that actually when I was like probably 19-20. I learned to feel in Olympics, I can't go hard all the time. I've got to recover, go hard when I've been told to go hard. Sooner the prescribed levels like low aerobic swimming, I get blood lactates all the time, heart rate, mothering all the time. But if it was up to me, when I was young, just stubborn wise, I would want to flock myself

14:27every session. That's just how I was, as I said. I think that's when we had you on the podcast last year. Yeah. When I last saw my zone here, I would go crazy every session. I would just want to get out of the water every session and be smashed. You know, it can get you to a certain point, but your body will break eventually. And you know, it did for me. And then I now am a much smarter athlete. And we have lots of physiologists and people much smarter than me, you know, guiding our sessions. So yeah, I listen to the professionals and then when I'm told to go hard, I make sure I make it worth it. Let's focus a bit on Glasgow this, some of them. So for us over here, it was, it's a fairly major meat. But for Australians, it felt like the bigger of the two, just from across the board looking at the squad that went to Glasgow and the results that came out. And Australian men's women actually swept the freestyle events. Is that something you use as squad targeted heading in? Yeah, we knew our girls could definitely sweep the events because our girls are, you

15:31know, insane. But yeah, we're joking around like if the men do it, because obviously, you know, the Brits and the Two Free are so strong. I didn't, I think if there wasn't an event, we wouldn't win the Two Free and then in the end, Kaita, or one which is great. But for the general public in Australia, they know the Commonwealth Games, I don't know, Wain more than the Pan Pax. No one really knows that the Pan Pax are, but a lot of people know what Commonwealth Games are. So in that respect, it's probably draws more athletes in to race there. And plus we're getting a bit of, Gina Reinhardt put on some prize money incentive for it as well. There was nothing for Pan Pax, so that could have been a motivator for some of the other athletes. But yeah, we did send a very big team like McAvoy and Carl Charm is just chose to do that one, for example. Yeah. I mean, you did the sweep of the four in 15 and actually the grand hack it was the last Australian man to do that back in 20 or 2005, everything it was. How much of that piece of history did that mean to you? Oh, a lot.

16:32Hockey was my hero growing up. It's like I looked up to him in the way he trained and approached his races and I could just know it out about all his splits and his times and his great aerobics, if you want, but don't avoid you. But it meant a lot. You know, I was definitely tired of not going in, but just one race of a time for me. And then when I've achieved it, it probably silvers and sunk in properly yet. What I've achieved this year. You know, I just got all my medals and trophies just shoved in a draw somewhere in here. But yeah, it was really a cool moment. Was it easy to race as much as you did? Like, because the program was, I'm thinking about the final day. It was especially brutal. Like you had the 2, 3M, 1500 in the same section. Yeah, that was hard. I don't know who designed the program schedule. If it was a world's Olympics, I wouldn't have done both at all. But just because it was common games, I knew I only had to worry about Dan Wiffen and maybe Ben Goenemanns from Australia in the 15s.

17:33So I didn't have to get up and race. You know, those Germans or Bob Fink, for example, I would have to be prepared to go crazy. But I was actually really frustrated after my 2 and 3 individual. I had a good heat swim. I was 145 on the heats. And then I just didn't do my own race. I got to probably out-scike because I was next to two Olympic champions and James Guy and Matt Richards. I think everyone watched it over in that race. Yeah, and then all of a sudden, as you always, I was a car tailor out in my 0 just back to itself and wins it. He's done that so many times here at our trials and stuff. But I just got sucked into racing. James Guy and Matt Richards, and I was a bit frustrated after that because I was much faster at trials. And then I ended up doing a very good 1500 for me at that time, like 1442, straight after a 145. That was how I think I was at that. I was in a lot of pain. I was just hoping, like, I mean, when I put a gap on Dan Wiffen in that race, I was like, just, just please don't back end the crap out of this race.

18:34Like I really just want to, just want to cruise away. He stuck with you for a little longer, I think, than maybe some expected given his 8th at the start beat, came into form at the back end of the meet. Yeah, I would say he's 1444. Like that's a tiny swim. Like that's no slouch of a swim. So don't let the 1426 fill you from your harness. 1444, so a good swim. So I think I could have been in some of the season, to be honest. I know he'll improve from there next year or short course for sure, but yeah, he stuck with me a lot. I wasn't expecting him to be that close, but again, the days and all the big champions are always going to be prepared. You do seemingly have much the same tactic for whatever race you do, whether it's two or eight, fifteen. Is there a ratio of joy racing the most with that tactic? I love the 400. Well, 400. I love the 800. Sorry, I really, I do love the 800. Like knowing that I've got a great 400 behind me and now I can go to 1433. I feel like the 800 is just the middle and I can really hold a very hard tempo the whole

19:38way. I still think from Pampax, like I'll 737 zero. But with 50 to go, I was right on track for a 735. I'm now 735 is right there. It's just about one day at a little click and I think I'll go a very good time in that 800. But still improving the tactics around the 800, but to do a really fast 800, you have to be brave. You can only exploit it by so much if you were to go down that route. And I'm not an expert swimmer. I do love attacking at 800 and you can make it really hard and try and burn out. And I can tell you, I'm a competitive if that's what you want to do. And I love racing. So just preparing for the big, big races that are coming up in the next two years. Yeah, I was going to say I'm looking forward to you next to Johannes and even Juadhi and just seeing what can be done in terms of that super suit record because it's the one outlaying one that right now feels like there's some momentum building towards it.

20:39Yeah, definitely. I think that, well, the second best time of Malooly, I think 735, that won't take long to go. I think that'll go in the next 12 months. I think that'll come down for sure. If not, in Asian games, who knows what drum, drum, drum, drum. What about drum? What about drum? So he races. That's a night, I think. But yeah, he's about two heads taller than me. So he does look really long in the waters. I think I had a quick look. He's six six, so he's tall. He was at PanPax and I beat him. He went 730. I've 345, which is not a shabby 400. He'll smash that in a couple days. But he was on the second podium, on the second step and I was on the top and he'll still talk with me. I'm not super tall, but I'm not sure either. So he's very two free swims were pretty special this last week that we've seen so far. Four free World Recorders on on notice.

21:41Yes, I think he'll go very good 400. So yeah, it'll be interesting. I think it is, I think now it's a good opportunity for me to do it because it'll be very hard, I think, doing it in a Olympic or World schedule because honestly, I think it'll be a 344 load and make that final 740, like low 740s to make the final. 1500 is going to be a ridiculous tonight final. And when you add and when you double up all the hard swims, it just doubles the fatigue on the body. I think that was one thing. Was it the four free commies that everyone struggled with because you swam it really late in the morning session and then it was first up in the evening session. It was quite a tight, I remember Jimmy Geiss and it was such a tight turn around. It was really tough to actually rest and recover in between. Yeah, you had maybe time to get one meal in. Definitely no time for it now. Yeah, we were the last event day two program. Was it maybe it was day one program?

22:42Yeah, it was one of the other. Yeah, and then the last event there and then the first event for finals. So I don't know why, but completely flipped for us. So yeah, I just have to go back and fuel up. I didn't actually really know that that was that thing till the morning. I woke up for the race. I'm at the final. I'm first up for the final and then he was definitely preparing for the final. But usually I'm just one thing at a time. So yeah, that was a big day. Very taxing on the body. Some harsh scheduling at commies for free starters it seems. With that two and fifteen and a four hundred thing as well. It must have been really quite a hard. Very, very hard. Yeah, I mean it was hard. There's always hard schedule events everywhere, but yeah, I don't know why. They just didn't put a free style event each day. Because it was enough days. Yeah, I think we're looking at the Asian games schedule on just going to that's how you do a six day meet no semi finals. I think it's really nicely spread out for them over there.

23:43Yeah, like a four by two is not on the same day as a just a vendor or not a free style event. So yeah, it's a bit kind of for them. Yeah. Your call has been forwarded to an automatic voice message system. A missed call doesn't feel like anything. No red flag, no notification screaming at you. It just disappears into your call log. And nine times out of ten that was someone ready to hand you money. That's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo. Spelled QUO. The business phone system built so you never miss a call. Here's what I like about it. All your calls, texts and voice mails live in one place. So anyone on your team can pick up a conversation, see the full history and respond fast. No more wait, who talked to this customer last? And if you're worried about after hours lead slipping through, Quo's optional built in AI agent can answer questions and even book appointments while your team's offline. It's the number one rated business phone system on G2 and over 90,000 businesses already

24:43trusted to stay reachable. Money is on the line. Always say hello with Quo. Try Quo for free. Plus get 20% off your first six months when you go to Quo.com slash tech. Most women have been there. Something feels off. You don't feel like yourself. Yet your doctor says everything looks fine. Spoiler, it's your hormones. Midi is a virtual care platform built for women by women and offers specialized hormone care from trained clinicians. Plus, it's covered by most major insurances. Getting started is easy. You can book your first visit with a clinician right away. It's not you. It's your hormones. Visit joinmitty.com to book your first visit. Join midi.com. Insurance coverage varies. Check with your plan for coverage. Yeah. If we moved to Pampax, then obviously that's an even tighter schedule. That's a four day meet turn around. Some pretty big records fell when you were over there breaking the thoughts Pampax record.

25:43What does it mean? I mean, me and Dan actually grew up watching thought like he was our idol growing up rather than felt like rather than felt before felt. He was the one that actually got me and Dan into the water. What's it like having him as an Australian to inspire you, especially being a four free starler? It's really cool. He was one of, I looked up to him as well. I couldn't actually watch him live, but I watched all these rates videos. He's age group records through the age group rankings. Just ridiculous, like three seconds faster. Two seconds faster than a junior-old record when he was 16, but he was two-old to set the junior-old record, stuff like that. He's just ridiculous in that sense, but he's got a big presence in the team now, like leading through to LA and Brisbane. I think he's a key figurehead for us, and I love having him there. He's been thought all is, he's given some great advice. I'm just having him there, I kind of live to everyone, aren't I? Everyone in the general public here, most people know thought or thought he or had it from that Sydney Olympics and onwards, and they don't know many students about thought and

26:45had it, people know. That's pretty cool to have him there. So he was actually in the VIP section behind the blocks, watching my 1500, and he flew like from LA to Brisbane for a big meeting or event or something, and then straight back to LA, of course the race. So that's, if you think of one way to do it twice, it's pretty brilliant. I'm sure. Maybe business class makes it a bit easier. Maybe. I'll just guess it. Oh, yeah, I reckon he could have got a little business class ticket, which would have been good to him. But yeah, it's awesome having him there and to perform really well in front of him and also, I'm pretty cool. You say he's a big public figure like him and a hacker everyone knows in Australia. What do you think it's going to take for the wider Australian public to recognise the names that are currently in the sport heading into, let's say, Brisbane and LA, what needs to be almost achieved, because some of their feats were massive, but you're, you're

27:48on the cusp of them. Yeah, I'd say, I am no means near that level, but they achieved so much at an Olympic level and it's a harsh reality of our sport at the moment where if you've got to perform at the Olympics, really a piece to the general public, everyone will turn into an Olympics and they love it here in Australia and Olympics and then Brisbane 2032 is a massive opportunity for that as well to bring swimming into the general public's eye again in Australia, like after Sydney, it was massive. I can say it's Sydney helped them. Yeah, Sydney was amazing for them, their two careers as well as just making them a household name and then Brisbane could be that opportunity for a lot of amazing talent here and myself included maybe. But yeah, LA Olympics will be a great opportunity to be honest, but I think more and more people are maybe just because I'm constantly surrounded by servants and my friends are now all pay attention because I do it, but I've got a lot of people to catch on. You know, like Ariat, Sydney, the calendar, the Cueners, Melio, Calahann, those names are

28:52pretty well known around here. I mean, I live in Brisbane, the Elwism or the Brisbane, southeast Queensland, everyone's aware of those names. The after-which-year down lot to get there. Yeah, well, when you look at Marcion doing it in a home Olympics, I think a home Olympics does make a massive difference. You see what happened at London 2012 with some of our athletes not consuming unfortunately, I think it makes a massive deal. But going back to Ian's thought, obviously, you've watched all of his races. Is there something you've taken from his races and put into yours? Yeah, I think when I first went 340 in 2023, like I remember watching the 2021 Olympics, was a relatively slow 400 final. 2022 World Championships are large, I wanted 341 low, but I feel like I was probably one of the first people again to start going out kind of close to the time. So thought he was turning in, thought he was going out in 148 highs, 149 lows and going those 340s. Yeah, when he said he's best time ever, I think he next split or even split it.

29:56But a lot of his 340 swims, he was aggressive and held all the way through. And I kind of weren't that in 2023 and that's when I went my 340 for the first time. Yeah, probably being brave and being aggressive in races, to be honest. But then also he's a beast at the back end. So I can't come back anyone here as fast as him. But yeah, maybe one day, still working on things. But yeah, probably being attacking a race is what I've learnt from him. I think it's still Madda. His, I mean, I know it's gone now in terms of World Record, but it's mad how long ago that swim was to whether the whole world is still playing catch up to it. Still relevant, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, it's a very big mark. I think 340 I think is, I'm trying everything I possibly can to get in the 340. And I'm still, I've just gone so many 340s and 340s now. I'm just, please just give me a 339.

30:57I think that's out of the World Record. I just want a 339, 999. But yeah, it's a big mark. You have to do a lot of work to get there and, you know, myself, Thorpe, Lucas Marns has done it. For example, and you know, there could be another one to do it tomorrow, maybe. So it's all happening. But, you know, it's going to be a good race when all of us can't guys are in the same pool racing again because I wish I had that this year. You did say it, Pampax. You felt like you were going on the 339 pace and you felt like you maybe had more left. What does that tell you about where your 400 could potentially go next time you race at all and next major meet? Yeah, I, because I was expecting, because at Pampax, I knew John would, was going to go very fast. Like 342 is great, but I thought he was honestly going to go 340, 341. That was what I was prepared for. And I had a big gap on him, like two seconds or more. So I was like, I'm, I'm out here. It's like, let's, this could be really good.

31:58And I was, you know, PB, but 340.5, but, you know, it's not, not quite that world record. And I look back at my world champion swim against half-now in 23 and that was a massive battle to the wall, every single stroke. And I do think I do get this best out of myself. When I'm in one of those massive races and just get to the wall, like I did, was very proud of my 800 that year as well, 737. You know, I've beat those times now, but I'm been training way better now than I was back then. I am a much better world round than athlete now than I was back then, but I still went those times. So I really think when I'm in a race against people that are better than me or even, you know, the same as me, I think I can get more out of myself if they're right there, for sure. Oh, it's nice to hear a racer as well, because Lucas Martin's tight, like his fastest time came over in Stockholm when there was no one around him. And then I don't know. I feel like it's got a different level to it when it's that head to head.

32:59Like there's a different vibe of race and you take more away from it. Personally, as a fan of the sport of swimming, watching a monumental head to head rather than I think it's better for the sport than a time trial in a way. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I remember at PanPaks leading into the meat, a lot of the American girls were doing, you know, time trial, the nationals, you know, doing world records, swims or like 23 low, 51 mid swims. And you know, my eye trained with Meg Harris, for example, and she's a beast and she's a racer. And I just remember, Dameo, my coach telling her like, you know, they're doing all these fastest swims in a time trial. Let's just wait till after they do 100 freestyle next to everyone else and make one that. And she did not like against like correctional option a couple other girls like she, she ended up winning 100 free and no one was expecting because everyone's doing these great time trial swims. And it is a different game when you're on this block set of big, big meat or in a very strong field.

34:00You have to want to stick to yourself and then by the end of it, for me, for example, I just want to race and you know, I'm not going to let someone get away on this hunt, completely blown up. So that's the beauty of sport and that's what I love doing it for. This is what I think Aussies do it kind of right. So you look at like Kyle, for example, not the fastest time in terms of PB compared to your pop of it, but actually gets the medals when it really matters. Molleo is much the same time wise, not as fast as Anna Moosh, Marrastein, Burgund, etc. But stick on her race and she'll no doubt kind of win because of the back end and kind of things like that. What do Aussies have mentally to be able to sort of bring that out of them? It seems. I don't know. I think it's just part of our culture. I think we love sport here. Everything is sport mad. We're just such a fit nation in general and then I think just winning. It's just so addictive here and we really do show respect to winners here in any aspects. And you know, like Kyle Chalmers, for example, yet doesn't have the fastest PB yet.

35:02You know, he's won Rio, second in Tokyo, second in Paris and by no means at the fastest PB, it's just an insane resume. And that Molleo, for example, the best back end in the world, you would never back against her if she's within a body length of my last 50. So I think just how we train as well, we've got a very good training, you know, culture here. Everyone really does work hard and they know even the people that aren't at the top yet, they know what it's going to take to get to the top. And I think that's kind of drives a lot of success and hunger to win. It's interesting. We're sort of here as women norzers talking about chasing times and going sub-thracking 340 for the first time. And actually, it kind of does feel like for a general audience to be recognized and known in just general achievement. It's not actually the time that matters. It's the gold medal, presumably like most of all at the Olympics. No one's going to remember, like I can't remember off to my head, Kyle's time, that he won

36:04in Rio. But I know he won in Rio. It's like that. When it comes to the Olympic Games, the time kind of goes out the way. The window slightly, it doesn't really matter. We can hype it up as much as we want as swimming fans, but actually for the general audience, that's timing, not much, unless you really, really know the sport. And it's the gold that actually will almost cement legacy more than time I feel. Yeah, definitely. If I like the swimming diehard fans and I'm one of them as well, I can remember times. Times from a long time ago that I go, that is insane. But yeah, people do remember the medals more so. I think the people don't, it's weird. The pressure of those big meets, I think, has more effect than people let on or. Because like, in Olympic Games more often isn't necessarily one in the fastest time. You know, take out the outliers of like Leon Marshal and Pan Gently. It definitely is a different, different sort of game.

37:07And I didn't click for me in Paris, I hope, in LA. But I've just done as many racing reps as possible to try and kind of chase that feeling again. And I think I've got a pretty down pat. And I'm a very consistent racer as well. So I think consistency is a big thing leading into those big sort of meets. As much as we're talking accolades and medals, let's go back to Times, funnily enough. But you know, the 1500 you did at Pan Pax, getting packets Australian record after 20 odd years, 25 years, how long it was. Take us through that moment, obviously, it's a pretty big deal for you. Yeah, massive deal. I wasn't expecting it through the year to get that. I don't actually really train for the 1500 specifically anymore. I kind of, I do a lot of zooming for my 8 and 15. And then I kind of just do the 1500 race at the end of the meet, because it doesn't usually affect anything else. But yeah, I definitely can't drop in as a man now after that swim. I do love, I do love the 1500. Australia's race, really. A lot of Australian legends have done it.

38:09I did say to my coach, I felt amazing at Pan Pax, assuming the whole week, even leading up to the meet off the back of the comedies. I don't know why, maybe it was a bit of the extended rest. But that's best I felt was at Pan Pax, and I just got better and better through that meet as well. And I remember saying to my coach at the start of the week, I reckon I can break hackies record in the 1500 if I feel like this on the last day. And then on the last day, I was like, I reckon I can break Hackett's record. And in the morning, when I said that, it would have looked way better, because I remember on the way back on the bus, Johannes just went 1426. We were watching him on the way back up. Morning session, I did my little swim through, went back. Johannes went 1426, and I'm like, yeah, wow, okay, that's insane. I was still thinking about 1433, which would have looked at my luck better next to a 1430, but I just tried to like ignore that for the time being. And then ended up, yeah, 1433, it was awesome. I'm knocking off my hero's famous record in Australia. He did that 25 years ago, like older than myself.

39:10It was very good. Does it feel sort of strange or surreal that you know how that mark that belonged to one of your childhood heroes? Yeah, it does. It hasn't really sunk in yet. I can't wait to kind of look in the program, add like a national or something. And so it's the grand hack, a challenge record, 1434. It'll save me. And that'll be pretty cool. And I know I can knock off more time on that, for sure. That was the one I best put together, to get the swims at 1500, you know, was 450, 453, 450 for the 500 splits on that. And that's, I've never swam it as well as that. And I know I can get more out of myself. I don't, I think sub 1430 is on the cards, potentially in the future. 1426 is insane. I'm not even looking at that. Is that hell of a drop that happened? Yeah, I'm not even looking at that at the moment, but I'm looking forward to the future. That's kind of why I didn't really want to have too much of a break, like it's just exciting. I've got a lot of racing opportunities coming up in the next 12 months and it's going to be good. How'd you target this short course season

40:10that literally starts, while the World Cup is in like a week, I think. I presume you're not going to the Silk Road World Cup, but World Short Course in Beijing is more of a target for you. Yeah, it is a target. I got, actually, yeah. I can't go to the World Cup because it is the exact same time as our trials for that. So a lot of the big guns aren't really tight and it's summer and myself included. And you do have to make a team as any old trials. So it is short course. I can probably get away with being a little bit underdone compared to a big long course. I just kind of want to tick the box and not really necessarily dominate at these trials, but I really do want to go to Short Course World Shaps in Beijing, one because I want to race in China. I think it's going to be, I've never been to China. I want to race there and experience China. And then I'm also planning on doing China Open in March. So I want to go there before I go there and race. I won't really do a massive race pace training block into it. I was just going to be big, me, potatoes,

41:11just a aerobic training, getting my base set up for the year ahead, because I know that works for me, doing a big, big block of work before December and then start training for that long season ahead. But I'll still race fast regardless. I can race very fast off big feet. And then Worlds later on this, well, next year. It's a little bit earlier as well. So you say a longer season, it is more condensed. I think it's like three, four weeks earlier than usual. Yeah, I am boot of pests as well. I love that pool. It is fast, it is awesome. And the atmosphere in boot of pests is insane. So I can't wait to get back there. And then, yeah, a couple weeks earlier, it'll probably be good practice, because I think our Olympic year, actually, no, I'm thinking of Olympics two. I've been talking Brisbane 2032 for way too long, but I know Brisbane 2032 will be earlier as well. OK. It's been gone. There's so much happening here for Brisbane 2032 at the moment. But yeah, boot of pests will be sick. I've seen a lot of amazing swims in that pool,

42:11so pretty cool to me back. With it being short-course season, does training change for you at all? Do you put more meters in the short-course pool, or is it still kind of staying much the same? I try to. I do a couple more sets in the short-course pool. I am much better at long-course than short-course. I just feel like I get better after I cross the halfway point, the 50 pool, like I carry my momentum through to the wall and just keep going. So the short-course, I'm in no need to specialise that, but I still think I can challenge for medals, podiums, maybe a win, who knows. But yeah, definitely, I'll be doing more reps in the short-course pool. I haven't really been knowing too much leading to this trials, just because I mean, everyone's on holidays, but around here, everyone will be coming back from holidays next week when I'm away. So hopefully after the trials, everyone will be back on deck the whole team and all lift off from there. You've got to be one of the only countries I think that has a short-course trials. I think it's just America takes whoever puts their hands up. Over here, we take long-course swimmers who put their hands up.

43:13We don't actually take short-course specialists. I wish it was a lot of that, because it is hard to readjust, read focus after the long-course season. I think it was actually our having a trials for their first time ever. This year, they're actually having a short-course meet as trials in Westmont. So they'll be sending a legit team. They're very good at short-course. I'm doing the World Cup last year against them all. Clues in America was just seven out of the eight guys and a lot of the finals are just American. So they'll be very good at it. So yeah, the talent will be there in December, and I think some of the races will be pretty cool. And some nations actually haven't really had a target meet this year. So it'll be interesting to see what the Tunisian guys do. The almond half now in the other armoured. I'm a joy. Yeah, almond and almonds. See if they target short-course worlds. I know they're both very good at it. So yeah, it's all happening. So if we sort of round out then, you've broken Hackett's record. You're getting forps records, all of a sudden.

44:14What's the, what's, what are you chasing now? World records, I guess? Yeah, my target times are for the 400, 400 fashion world record, like I am training for that. And then 800 free, like 735, I know I can achieve. And then 1500 just put me in a good race and just let me see how much I can get out of myself. So I'm really excited for the next 12 months. So like I've knocked off some big names, and I just want to keep doing that. You know, it's an addictive feeling. I love racing and racing well. And I just, I love racing good people. Like racing the best in the world, there's no better feeling. So I'm just, yeah, if you can't tell, I'm just itching to get back in there. I know, I know. It's been a weird year that there's been so many good races, so many good meets, so many good swims. Like fresh Europeans over here was just rapid. It was so much fun to watch. But you're still left with that feeling of, we haven't seen the best head to head. Like in all honesty, we haven't.

45:14We need that culmination of everyone coming. And we've got to wait a year, and it sucks. That we've got to wait a year for Budapest for it all to come together. And hopefully everyone's still in form and everyone's ill. Or whatever, not ill, everyone's healthy. And yeah, we actually finally get a crescendo off. It almost feels like a two year season, because there hasn't been that head to head of all parties at once. Yeah, definitely. I think Budapest, they do always do a great well championship. I think that'll be very exciting. And then the culture over there is great too. I don't see it much, even the spreading there. It definitely does feel like a two year season, for sure. I've been traveling. I've made a point over the last two seasons to try and travel around the world and do out through to America, race a lot in America. Just race the best more often, because getting those kind of race reps with good competition, I think, really pays dividends in the end of the season. So that's why I'm going to go to Australia again in America,

46:15be come home, and then I've got the opportunity to go to China Open, I believe. So I'll be able to go there and hopefully get to race some of the best in the world there. And actually, no, I definitely will be racing the best in the world there. So it's going to be good. As a shame we can't get more Aussies over for the big meets over here as well, because there's a big one that sits at the end of March, at no end of May, and the Germans do always come to it. Yeah, these are the Aussie and us. Yeah, AP racing, it's just an awkward point for you guys traveling over before worlds to then travel back to then. Yeah, bounce and try. It's kind of the same as like, bare nozzles for us as well. Like I've always wanted to do the bare nozzles tour as well, but it's literally like two weeks before our trials. Yeah. Maybe on an off year, I kind of risk it and do that the bare nozzles and lots of stuff, but at the moment, that can't really risk it. Get the 10k payday. You've got to fight some strong submersion, like obviously you're a harness. Yeah, you're a harness one last time. No, he didn't, and a moosh one, it would go enough.

47:16Oh, that's right, one hundred. For the other one, free. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, I did tune in for a lot of other races at AP race like, yeah, they all do do it. And I think Ryan Erisman also did it, try America. Yeah, it was weird for the US team. A lot of the, because they selected their team a year in advance for the Pampax, or from last season, they didn't have a trials for it. A lot of their best swims, weren't actually on the team. Yeah, we didn't get that. Strange, really strange. I mean, I wasn't complaining, because I was just racing, but yeah, he was weird in any way. Yeah, no, we've spoken about it a few times like, why? I just don't understand, like you're not bringing your most recent fastest submers to what is considered as Pampax, like a pretty big me. Surely that'll be changed at some point, but who knows? Yeah, I think that, I think they weren't as happy with their Pampax results as they could have been. So I think they'll probably be changing some stuff. They won't make any mistakes in the next two years, leading into LA.

48:16Like, that's where they come in a play. That would be a big target for them. Let's round out this podcast and then talk LA for you. What would walking away from those games have looked like for you to achieve what you want to achieve? Ooh, tough question. I mean, I would, everyone wants an Olympic gold medal, like everybody that's going to want an Olympic gold medal. But I haven't got an Olympic medal. So I've got three really strong events, individual events. So getting on the podium in three events would be awesome. Give me a gold medal, I said, cherry on top. But I would love to be in the final, get on the podium in three events, and then just really be in the hunt for a gold medal. If I push myself and do an amazing swim and come second in Olympic games in front of everyone, like I would be a little bit disappointed, but that's nothing to be sad about. Like I really want to be in what's on some big moments and really be at my best at LA

49:17in front of everyone. So challenge for wins there and get come being in my best shape. That's what I want to do. I mean, you spent many years chasing records of the people you grew up watching. Are you now starting to think that the possibility that some kids now growing up is watching you rather than forping a hacker from before? Yeah, well, that's kind of, I've been getting a bit more of that. It's just due to this season because I've had a very good season for me, knocking off some big names. And it is possible some more young kids would be looking up to seeing what I do. And I think that's awesome, because I always want to start a little kid, just noting out, studying, I'm just replicating what I see on YouTube, studying their times, their splits, some guy could be doing that. And I think it's awesome. That's why I kind of pride myself on being a very hard trainer, a humble and victory, but also humble and defeat a lot of the time, I think. But also not afraid to race really hard and want to destroy your competitors. I think that's really cool. So just all of it, that's what I've taken from some of my heroes.

50:21So if some young kid takes that away as well, that'd be awesome. And then maybe one day I'd race them in eight years time of trials, and what an old man. They beat me. So if they're watching this, this is this now. What training set would you give them? If they're saying, OK, I want to be like, Sam, short, what are they going to need to do in training to mix it with you? I've had some good ones this season, but I know it was like two weeks after our trials, we just got back in some good race pace training leading in the come games. And our set was like a 500 best pace. 4-1 ZZ, 400 best pace, 4-1 ZZ, all the way down to 100. And we saw love in our long course, and I went like, it was 4-43 from a push. And it's very easy. And then I went 3-45 from a push. So I'm easy, 247 or 247, and then 148, and then 52.

51:23So that was one of the best sets I've done. And then the rest of the off that was, I mean, the 100 is like 1-31-21 or something, but your heart rate came down before your effort. But that was a very big set. And didn't think that was possible for myself at the time. But then afterwards, that was pretty cool. Good luck, kids. Yeah, I mean, three-43 in a training session. I know you suit it up, but that's Olympic finals at the standards, obviously. Yeah, I can swim very fast in training. Like in those race pace, I've done like a roadic sets from next to like some of the Koreans, for example, they come and do some training camps with us, they can move in and stuff, and they can train, like I've never seen. It is insane. Some of the stuff they can do, just in normal training tols, no race suit. I think it emits out when you put a race suit on, like a lot of them are like 60-something kilos, like just tiny guys, and they are flying. But then yeah, give me a race pace set, and all like a push 400 or a time trial and training.

52:25I'm pretty set to go. Like I remember five weeks before trials, we did like a race simulation thing in training, like time trials, and I think I dove a 341-4 or something, five weeks out, so I knew I was ready to go after that. It's got to build some confidence going in. It's just for me having no year able to do that. Thanks. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And like my coach knows how I react to certain training, and like he just tries to push me and push me and see what's possible and get to my breaking point, not break me, but just just before I break. So he just tries to find that point, which is pretty cool. So we've got a good working relationship right now. And yeah, this season, like I've done some stuff that will be pretty hard to do again. So hopefully next season we'll get to the race pace training. I'm doing that as well. I can say you're saying this in September, but there's still a whole training here to come. Yeah, so maybe in a couple months' time, I'm doing that again. But yeah, you can only hit that sort of training for a, you know, a great month.

53:26So I reckon not long-term. I mean, that's like at the point of the season, you do that sort of stuff. So that's the fun, that's the fun time of the season. When you're fit ready to go, and you can start throwing down some crazy stuff and training. Well, we'll bring you back on in a month, what, maybe a year or so of the time, and actually compare what you've just done. So what you're doing, I say, do your time. That'll be quite interesting. Yeah, let's do it. Hopefully he's better. Or I've just crashed and burnt. Not. Well, see, thank you so much for giving up some of your time this afternoon, because it feels weird saying that. Five and a half. Yeah, it's absolutely me. Best of luck for the short-course season and can't wait to see what you do in Budapest. It's a fastball, and I've just buzzed in to exceed the best in the world ahead to head now for once. It felt like a very long time since we've seen that ahead to come to fruition. Yeah, thanks, guys. Yeah, and I can't wait as well. You've been listening to the Propulsion Swimming podcast with Scott and Dan. We want to thank you for joining us

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