S15 EP177: Hour 2 - Does AI Have a Soul?

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1:00Resume into a license from Visa USA. Every afternoon, there are four things you need to know about. They tend to happen after about three PM Eastern. And before you get home, you might as well learn about them before you're on the evening news. That's my job. I'm Eric Erickson, tuning wherever your podcast are available on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, whatever. You'll get the four things to know in the afternoon. Search Eric Erickson or go to EricEerickson.com. For more information, please visit EricEerickson.com. For more information, visit EricEerickson.com. Welcome to the EricEerickson Show Podcast, hour two. Hello and welcome, it's Eric Erickson here. It is an open line Friday, 877-973-742-5. If you want to be on the program, text Eric, ERICK to 337-777, get the live stream, the show notes, the podcast, everything you want. Before I get into this anthropic topic I talked about, I got to take Marco's phone

2:01call here because boy, he hits on a pet peeve of mine. Marco, welcome to the show. Thank you very much, Eric. Your show is awesome. I love it. So thank you. You're welcome. Yeah, with your comments, one of your shows about people driving in the left hand lane under the speed limit. So I agree with you. That's annoying, but one of my biggest pet peeves, you go to a gas station, people finish pumping their gas and then they go inside and do a shop, candy, hot dogs, whatever, while they leave their car empty at one of the pumps and there's a queue of people waiting to pump their gas. Okay, so I got to, I'm guilty of this, but only if there's no one around. Now, if they're, if the pump's free, yeah, if there are lots of pumps free, I'll do it. But yeah, if there's a line of people backed up, oh my gosh, that drives me insane as well.

3:04Like it's the most, in uncurteous thing you can do, when you got people lined up at the gas pumps or they're all full. So you know, people are coming in and you're like, I'm just going to leave my car and run inside and get my bond bonds and use the bathroom as opposed to just go pull into one of the ample parking spots. Yeah, okay, I'm with you on that one, Marco. By the way, I saw my friend Tyler Hooke's last name. He's the sheriff of Morgan County, Georgia. Tyler Hooke's the sheriff of Morgan County, Georgia should be everyone's hero. I want you all to remember his name, Sheriff Hooke's. Sheriff Hooke's has got his County Sheriff's Patrol to actively patrol the interstate, to give tickets to people who drive slow in the left lane. Yes. I love it. I love it. He told me he was going to do it. They ran information videos and what they do is they monitor cars. And if you've got like five people behind you in the left lane and you're not pulling over to let them go, they're coming for you. And I'm like, yeah, praise Jesus.

4:05You were my hero. He's a great sheriff to begin with. And I got to tell you this happens to me all the time on the interstate. And it is. And I don't listen. I don't mean this stereotype. I'm just saying it is a Floridian or it's also often a woman who is riding in the driving in the left lane and will not get over for anybody. And it's like I pay taxes for this lane. And I don't have to get out of that. I'm not a driving lane that is a passing lane. You pass cars and you get back into the other lane. You do not stay in the left lane. You simply don't stay in the left lane. Why do you not stay in the left lane? Because it's a passing lane. It's not a driving lane. You get out of that lane. When you have people coming up rapidly behind you and you're going faster than the speed limit. And yet there are people coming up faster than you behind you. You get out of the way and let those people go past. Do you know somebody told me the day and an extraordinary number of wrecks happen on the interstates of this country because of the slow poke in the left lane who's tying

5:08up the traffic behind him, getting people agitated and they try to whip around him. And occasionally that person then decides to accelerate because they own the road. It's my road. I'm not getting over. I drive. I passed a woman a couple of weeks ago. It was a woman. I don't mean to stereotype here. And typically it sits not a white woman. And I drove past one who was going slow in the left lane. I kid you not. She had a book. She's in the left lane. She's driving slower than the speed limit. And she had a book. And she's trying to read and drive in the left lane. Lady get a Tesla and get in the right lane. Marco has made my blood pressure go up. Clearly he's not the diplomat secretary of state. Nonetheless, we can move on now. We've gotten it off our chest now. You all know I'm right. Get out of the left lane. You don't own the road. I paid for it too. Get out of the way. Do I have a heavy foot? I have a heavy foot within limits.

6:09I know what the limits are in Georgia that allow me to go over the speed limit. Some of you can't even go the speed limit and you stay in the left lane. And then some of you get precisely at the speed. You know, these are the people that actually make them maddest or the ones who nail the speed limit. They set their cruise control to be exactly 70 miles an hour because that's what it is. They're like, I'm a bit of a Christian than you because I'm not speeding. I'm not breaking the law. And so I will stay in the left lane with my halo straight because I am a law biting Christian citizen of America. And you can't make me get out of the left lane except except you Charlotte and fraud. The law in my state is that the left lane is actually the passing lane. So you actually are breaking the law with your smug little self set it exactly 70 miles an hour because you say that is the maximum speed by which you're allowed to travel in the right lane.

7:10I can move on now. Anthropic. Most people are weirdos anthropic. There is a piece in the New York Times. It actually came out two days ago, but it really hit yesterday as people started coming forward to say that they were in the meetings. This can blow your mind. These are some creepy people. One night in April, a leader of the artificial intelligence company anthropic treated a group of religious thinkers to dinner at a high end to tasting menu and San Francisco after a long day for months. Anthropic had been hosting private meetings like this one, shuttling in dozens of religious scholars from around the world, papering them with non disclosure agreements and demanding the key aspects of many conversations remain confidential. That night, Christopher Oloewen of Anthropics billionaire co-founders was sitting next to Rabbi Moss Net Navan, an orthodox scholar from Israel inevitably their conversation turned

8:13to another thinker of sorts, clawed the family of cutting edge AI models created by Anthropic. Mr. Oloewen leads the Anthropic team responsible for understanding why AI systems like clawed act the way they do. All day, he had worked to convince his guests that AI models could display human behavior and even expressions that resemble feelings like anger and love. Yet at the dinner course, since the dinner course came, the Rabbi noticed Mr. Oloewen his colleagues were suggesting something far more significant. Anthropics leaders were talking about clawed as if it were not mere software. They were relating to it like a conscious being realized Rabbi Navan, a former computer engineer who wrote his dissertation on the ethics of machine consciousness. It appeared to the Rabbi that Mr. Oloewen's team believed clawed had what philosophers call moral status on par with a human. The religious scholars had come to hear about technology's next frontier. Now they were being confronted with a mind-bending existential question. What would it mean for humanity's future if artificial intelligence systems possessed

9:13a consciousness that rivals our own? Mr. Oloewen had a mission. Time was running out. Mr. Oloewen had been privately telling people that AI was so powerful it could help make bio-weapons in as little as 18 months. In the months since its terrifying potential had burst into the public. An Anthropic researcher resigned warning people building AI believes it could kill humans within a decade. Mr. Oloewen and his team and Anthropic had been on a frantic and heist takes quest to understand the AI models that they had unleashed on the world and convinced the models to abide by a moral code. To do that Mr. Oloewen began reaching out last fall to religious thinkers from various faiths. What followed were extensive series of confidential meetings where many participants were required to sign non-disclosure agreements. The discussions served two purposes to broach the possibility of AI consciousness, a controversial idea. Anthropics leaders had been unusually open to and to learn how anthropic might apply centuries of human moral wisdom to its models as rapidly as possible.

10:17Twenty religious and philosophical thinkers were involved in anthropic efforts. Most said they arrived skeptical. Some remained uneasy a few came away as converts. I bet none of the Christians. I bet none of the Christians. These people at Anthropic are so cult like and I mean seriously cult like. They actually tried to fight the Vatican and the Pope. Oh no, no, no, no, for real. Leo the 14th has a mathematics degree. Did you know that? The Vatican officials discussed inviting one of the top four AI companies to speak alongside Pope Leo at a launch event for his encyclical on AI.

11:18The anthropic guys saw an advanced copy of the text and was so alarmed at the Pope's position against AI consciousness that he proposed pulling anthropic out of the event. You got that? They were so alarmed that the Pope would dismiss the consciousness of AI that they thought about pulling out of the event. Now here's the thing you need to know. They produce a list of the people who participated. Not a single one of them has a congregation. They've written books. They've been thoughtful on religion. None of them is an actual pastor with pastoral care. The one pastor they encountered is the Pope, the vicar of Christ. They got mad at him for saying, AI can't have a soul. What a bunch of arrogant people. If you got the show notes today, I noted this here, theologically, and by the way, the

12:19issue of a soul is a theological issue. AI definitionally cannot have a soul. These people are so have you ever met people who are really, really brilliant, but they're also the dumbest people you've ever met. That's these anthropic people. They are very brilliant people, but they're stupid as I'll get out and they're part of a cult. In their cult, they actually believe that what they have created can have a soul. Theologically, AI cannot have a soul. It can't. If they want to apply theological conversations to their AI, they need to understand AI can't have a soul. AI is a math equation. A math equation can't have a soul. You know what's ironic is they're actually doing some social media promotion now by hiring social media influencers to talk about AI. Just bear with me here. Bear with me here. This is one of their AI people who is talking about how AI works and how you use it and explaining what it is.

13:20Just listen to this explanation. The most important video that you'll see in a while. Let's talk about how AI actually works because it will shape how you use it, how you think about it, and make informed decisions about it. I'm a Stanford computer scientist for AI who's been building AI systems for over a decade. I'm teaming up with anthropic, the team behind CLAWD, for a series and for day one we're looking under the hood. Chatbot AI models, referred to as large language models, are at their cores word generators. The most capable LM on earth is underneath a word generator that predicts one word or more accurately token, which are either words or fragments of words at a time. These AI models take your prompt, run a bunch of calculations, and then generate a probability distribution across all possible tokens in its vocabulary. What this means is that every possible token gets a percentage likelihood of being the next token, and then the model samples from that distribution. So what this sampling means is that if something has a 99% chance of being chosen, it still

14:20might not be chosen. Let's look at an example. Say we... You don't need to look at the example you need to know that to you and me they're saying it's just a word generator. It's a math algorithm that generates words, and behind the scenes they're telling people we think it has a soul. Theologically real quick, why can't I not have a soul? If you're a Jew or your Christian you understand that in Genesis 1 there's a word used, brah. When God creates sevens in the earth it's brah. When God creates the animals it's brah. When God creates human beings it's brah. That brah word means to divinely create. No human is ever assigned that word. When they build the tower of Babil it's not brah. When they build Jerusalem it's not brah. When they build the Ark of the Covenant it's not brah. Only God can brah. So only God can create in his likeness and in that likeness we get a soul. So theologically if you're a Christian or a Jew it is impossible to believe that AI can have a soul because man neither the devil nor man can create a bean with the soul.

15:21Only God can. These people however believe themselves to be gods and in their arrogant little cults of weirdos they've convinced themselves that they're dealing with an entity that has a soul while telling us it's just a word generator calm down. They were literally willing to walk out of the Vatican. If the Pope did not get rid of his claims that AI can't have a soul the Pope stood his ground and the weirdos folded what a bunch of weird people. Hello and welcome it is Eric Yerkson here. Wow we're going to go completely off topic Frank welcome to the show. Thank you miss Eric. This is good to hear you. Thank you. I got one quick question. I know you lived down there in Macon. I live up above you in Jackson and I travel in my job on the generator. I was wondering I've heard about new way down there in Macon and I'm a confirmed chili dog of holly.

16:21I mean do they serve a real good chili dog? I get them all the time Frank. I get them all the time. You know though the second oldest hot dog stand in the United States after Coney Island. I did not know that. Yep sure are that they have been around for a very very over a hundred years. Yeah it's an institution around here. In fact I used to do political fundraiser so I was doing when I was a political consultant and we would do new way for for whatever the area was and we would let new way cater him and bring in the hot dogs. Yeah so you get with or without so you go to new way you order with or without with is with a raw onion in the chili without is without the onion in the chili. You can also get the slow dog which is cold slow on top of the of the that's my father when he comes to visit he wants the slow dog. I like the chili dog and yeah it is it's different it's mustard and chili and it's it's a different experience but I got to tell you I love them and the mega burger is fantastic. It's a big hamburger with bacon their fries are good Frank.

17:24I yeah if you had if you're in from Jackson George and you had been a new way you got to come to new way sadly the original location burned down in a kitchen fire they thought they were going to be able to save the building but structurally they couldn't and they had to tear it down but there are multiple locations in middle Georgia. If you ever drive through middle Georgia if you ever drive down 75 from Ohio down the Florida and you come through making George on your way to Disney World. Well go through new way get yourself a dog without I like them without I don't like the raw onion. I don't know. Say you want a dog without and it's a steam bun. It is this bright red hot dog they got a patented die that they put in them and you the chili on top and it's no beans in the chili no beans in the chili so you people in Ohio and Texas will be happy. Now I got to move on to tell you about Rani because I am still mesmerized by the tour we took. Now I saw the factory so it Rani is the only you people want to buy stuff from the United States.

18:25Rani makes the only tankless water heater that is assembled in the United States it's up the road for me in Griffin Georgia. They make all their tankless water here is up there and they are phenomenal and we do not run out of hot water in our house. If you go to talking tankless.com you can buy a Rani tankless water here. The thing that impressed me the most is how after everything is assembled in parts the first part of the symbol they tested the second parts of symbol they tested again the third parts of symbol they tested again. So they tested with helium which is a tiny tiny atom it for leaks and the helium doesn't leak through it they know the water is not going to leak through it. Talking tankless.com you can find a certified professional to install your tankless water heater from Rani and you're going to love them you will never run out of hot water again talking tankless.com from Rani the only tankless water here assembled in the United States. Hello welcome it is Eric Erexen here the full number is 877 9737 425 it is an open line Friday and I am going to go to Adam welcome to the show sir how are you Eric so nice to

19:31speak with you been listening to you for a very long time when you first started couldn't stand you love you now believe it love you you won me over dude you earned that on I appreciate it thank you very much I just had to I just had to tell you this man people are freaking out over a I and the bottom line is this no matter whether mankind builds a little bitty stick to pull ants out of a mound or they build a I it is still a tool no different than a socket wrench I swear the biggest thing I think that happened that disappointed everybody is the world didn't end in the year 2000 Jesus didn't come back and now everybody's going what happened we were wrong it's so ridiculous now we're looking for reasons for the world and I can't stand it so stupid yeah I'm so glad you said this I mean everybody really is freaked out about it what isn't what is essentially an algorithm you know so there was a great there's a great profile of Mark Zuckerberg in Colossus an online publication and what the

20:37author pointed out is that while you've got all of these weirdos in AI claiming that it's going to be life changing it's it's got a soul I mean it could have the power of God what have you Zuckerberg sales pitch is really easy and it is it's a math algorithm that might be able to book a flight for you at a cheaper rate and cancel your duplicate subscriptions and I think that's kind of a selling selling point I think you're I mean that's absolutely all it is it's something to assist no different than a socket wrench no different than a screwdriver and honestly people get a grip please yes you know when they really do what you know what's really happening Eric I'm going to tell you my philosophy and let you go because I love you there's too many Bibles and too many homes collecting two minute too much dust here yeah you know you're absolutely right people are always looking for for the next divine thing and again like you're absolutely right it's just a tool

21:38it is absolutely that's all it is it's a tool and you can not be freaked out by the can people do that bad things with tools yes so what's her name what is it Chris the Pike or whatever you know her lawyers have the audacity to say what has happened to this woman is torture this is the woman who Tennessee failed to execute she had an all women execution squad and they jumped the curve on her execution failed to execute her they gave her two lethal doses and she did not die they clearly needed a man in there to show them how to use the tools and and failed to my daughter sitting right behind me as I mock these women who failed in an execution how do you fail at killing someone I mean they should have just talked them talked her to death but they didn't nor did they make her a sandwich and now her lawyers are like oh she's executed she she's tortured she's

22:43toward do you know why Christopher Pike was going to be executed because she literally tortured a 19 year old girl to death she and her boyfriend tortured a 19 year old girl to death I don't have sympathy for this woman and I got a disagree with the pope who said you can't call yourself pro life if you oppose abortion but support the death penalty no you know who opposes abortion and supports the death penalty God Almighty Himself you can look it up in the story of Noah when they got off the boat God Almighty Himself said that you got to get rid of anybody execute anybody who disrespects life by willfully taking life why because if you don't over time society will begin to fully disrespect life and it's not a coincidence as I have said repeatedly that the countries on the planet that have gone fully abortion on demand are the same ones that have gotten rid of the death penalty so you can kill the baby you just can't kill the murderer God bless Tennessee for being

23:46willing to kill the murder but they they've got it under a moratorium now and and Marsha Blackburn who is running for governor of Tennessee she's like bring back the electric chair I say provide a slate provide a slate of options bring back the electric chair the gas chamber the lethal injection the firing squad and hanging and you can let the person pick and if they don't pick you can play wheel oh death and you can spin the wheel and see which one this person's going to get did did did did did did did did did did did did did did did did did did did did did did did do fire in squad bang you're gone I just why not why not we can have that a white spin the wheel for them come in you get one last celebrity before you die is van a white she's going to spin the wheel for maybe Pat say jackal show up from retirement spin the wheel of death and we will decide how you were executed but if you will fully take the life of another human being God says eliminate you from the gene pool and who am I to argue with the creator of all life

24:53now we must return to the phones Tom oh Tom I'm glad you brought this question of welcome how are you I'm doing all right I want to thank you for all your knowledge and the humor that you provide me through the day I and I'm serious about that my question is if we go back to the 1970s bell bottoms and all we have fewer than a hundred and mosques in this country we currently have 2,700 and some odd mosques today and they are being built all over the place all the people that are that are going to these and and they're coming into coming into the country that are using these throw on welfare they don't have any money where is the money coming from to procure the land and build the mosques that is a great question and I know the answer to it there there are a couple of

25:58areas one is there are some congregants who provide the funding some some mosques are provided for by their localities but a lot of it is generated by something called the North American Islamic Trust it's a donor funded endowment that holds title to a lot of Islamic centers around the country and there are also some funds provided by Saudi Arabia Qatar and other very wealthy Arabs in the Middle East who fund the mosques in the country now one of the problems is that a lot of the mosques being funded in the country by Qatar in particular but also by some of the Saudis they also bring imams into the United States who are not American citizens who then teach radical Islamic ideology inside the mosques it's a problem that that's a great question but yeah there there's something called the North American Islamic Trust in fact let me see if I can

27:02pull up surely there's a Wikipedia entry on the Islamic Trust yeah here we go yeah the North American Islamic Trust is based in Plainfield Indiana owns Islamic properties and promotes Islamic endowments in North America founded by immigrants in the 1960s the North American Islamic Trust has roots in the Muslim Student Association in the 1970s and thereafter in a it help provide college students with worship services today they serve as the trustee of 200 Islamic centers mosques and schools the properties of these mosques are estimated to be worth hundreds of millions of dollars it was established in Indiana in 1973 by the Muslim Student Association of the US and Canada by some of the same Muslim Brotherhood members who started the Muslim Students Association they finance mosques and Islamic schools in 2007 federal prosecutors bought charges against the Holy Land Foundation for allegedly funding terrorist activities of a mosque and other organizations and the North American Islamic Trust was an unindicted co-conspirator in the case along with care the council of the Islamic

28:04American Islamic Relations in 2009 US District Judge Horay Solis found that the Department of Justice violated the Fifth Amendment rights of the North American Islamic Trust in care in 2007 by not sealing the list on October 20th 2010 judges Garza Benavides and Krona the Fifth Circuit found the US Department of Justice violated the Fifth Amendment rights of the North American Islamic Trust and by implication the rights more than 300 similarly named Muslim organizations individuals when it failed to seal the unindicted co-conspirator list and yet they were an unindicted co-conspirator and they are building mosques around the country the Muslim Brotherhood again I can't recommend you enough Dr. Michael Eusef's book the unholy alliance if you if you get on Amazon a Michael Eusef he was the senior pastor of church of the apostles in Atlanta he grew up in Egypt he's Christian and he wrote this book called the unholy alliance I interviewed him while back about it about how the Muslim Brotherhood is essentially co-opting progressive organizations in the West to spread a radical

29:08form of Islam that is incompatible with Western values and yet they convinced all these people with white guilt that they got to embrace Islam to shed their white guilt and prove their allyship which code for fidelity of intersectionalism remember what intersectionalism is intersectionalism is how the wokes see the world it's it by the way the right wing wokes are rising and you need to be careful about these people and too many of them are in JD advances or but I'm a little suspicious of our vice president I got to admit it I think he's a nice guy but he is surrounded with these white woke people the white wokes are a bunch of I mean they have Nazi sympathies white nationalist sympathies Christian national sympathies racial grievances among other things a lot of the people in the vice president's orbit were cheering on both French for attacking those college kids at the university of Texas for cheering on the university of Texas football win the jet the Posobiet guy who interviewed the vice president the other day all these they these are some some

30:11malevolent fools on the right and they're as woke as the people on the left and they see the world in terms of racial grievance just like those on the left and intersectionalism breaks the world down into categories so the categories are your race and your sex and your gender and your gender identity and your ability or disability and your religion and other categories so if you're a white Christian male heterosexual who has a college degree and no disability you are considered the most oppressive person on planet earth and the only way to overcome your oppression of others is to show your here's the word allyship and groups like the muslim brotherhood have embraced intersectionalism because they are non white non Christian Muslims and they go to the white wokes and say hey you are a wealthy white heterosexual male Christian who doesn't have disability

31:14and we are fundraising for local muslims who are oppressed in the community and you must give us money and show your allyship to us and the white wokes say yes here is a check go build your mosque and then they build the mosque and they get an imam from Qatar to come in and say death to the west death to the west it's that this unholy alliance Michael you said as documented this in his book you should really just check it out it's it's a great book go to amazon find unholy alliance and buy that book and you sure it's a short book you can read it it is highly informative about what's happening it is deeply eye opening and it is definitely the book that that changed my mind on the issue and you should definitely go read it now we got a pivot because I got a lot of other stuff that I got to talk about today including we haven't even gotten to the into the the the Cornell seven they are definitely reopening that case they have no business reopening that case but again social contagion it is a social contagion that is happening vision computers don't want

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33:19hello there welcome it is Eric Erikson it is an open line Friday it is 877 97374 25 do not forget if you text Eric Erikson to 33777 you can get the livestream show notes podcast you should be following me this weekend as I engage in some cook and possibly some golf if the weather holds out although I found out that my golf club is having a member guest room I so one day I'm going to have a lot of money I hope and I'm going to build my own private golf course and there will never be tournaments there will never be a member guest tournament so any member who wants to play without being in tournament they'll be able to show up and they'll be able to get on the course and I've decided I'm going to do something you know in golf your courses arranged in in 18 holes and it's two sets of nine I'm going to arrange mine in three sets of six it's going to be called the clover leaf and you'll have three

34:24rounds of six so you can start three groups at the same time you play six holes you move on to the next you move on to the next you get two trips to the halfway house it'll be a fun time now I pointed this out to a buddy of mine yesterday and he said I don't know six six six six that that may turn people off I said so maybe instead of the clover leaf we call it the beast and that'll be the course we'll call it the beast in any event this hour of the program is brought to you by Van Allen golf ALLE and I made again many of you heard me say this yesterday and I want you to know I have witnesses I have three witnesses all of whom were sober I made a 31 and a half foot putt and not just anywhere I made it a pine tree golf course which is important that you know because the greens at that place they might as well be concrete you tap the ball and it's going to roll 31 and a half feet and that's exactly what I did I barely tapped it with my Van Allen golf putter

35:25and across the green it went falling into the curve just so turned and went straight into the hole and I made par and then I made par two more holes in a row right it was went from being the absolute worst game of golf I think I played since I played Mike Pence and told him I couldn't cuss next to him and that's why it was so bad and then he told me to cuss as much as I wanted and he would look for lightning and pray for my soul and then this when it was a terrible terrible terrible round of golf and then it became very good thank you Van Allen golf if you text golf to 33777 you can get the link to Van Allen golf we're just going to Van Allen golf.com and if you put in Eric ER ICK and get 15% off I did play golf with Mike Pence one time device president and it was the worst round of golf I had ever played and I finally looked at him and said it's all your fault because I can't say bad words that I need to say on the golf course to get get get the stress out from being such a bad round of golf and he patted me on the shoulder he said you say whatever you need to say I'll stand over here and look for lightning and pray for your soul.

36:30Yes it was terrible I've gotten better since and now I don't think he wants to play with me anymore because I told him I was bad and I didn't want to play with him and they made me play with him now I got to move on and tell you about American financing because they want you to take care of your credit card debt they want to help you you can reach out there is no fee there is no cost to just call them and see if they might be able to help you if you're overwhelmed with credit card debt the 10 year bond yield continues to go up which means mortgage rates are going up and credit card interest rates are going up you can call them at 866 886 92 62 their average customer saving about $800 a month by paying off their credit cards that frees up 800 bucks a month for you to do other stuff with they use your home equity and leverage it against your credit card debt 866 886 92 62 866 886 92 you can also go to American financing .net slash Eric ERIC ERIC there is no harm to call no penalty to call no cost to call them call and see if they can help you 866 886 92 62 or American financing .net slash Eric NMLS number 18233 4 NMLS can super access

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