‘Resident Evil’ and the Tightrope of Relaunching Old IP

0:00It is Thursday, September 10th. The plight of the International Film Studio can be a tough one these days, especially with the US Studios consolidating, getting bigger, the global streaming services sucking up audiences and attention, but it helps if you control intellectual property. That's certainly true of Constantine Film, the largest and one of the oldest German film TV studios. Thanks to a right steel in the 90s, Constantine controls Resident Evil based on the Capcom game from Japan. First movie came out in 2002 and there have been seven of them, most of them hits. The next one arriving next Friday via Sony and directed by the very hot filmmakers at Kregger of Weapons and Barbarian fame. Get into how that happened. Resident Evil will now have eight live action movies, four animated films, two TV series, a stage play and dozens of novels and comics that's in addition to a still very popular

1:01game. It's a perfect example of how even relatively non flashy IP can still have a really long life. And if this movie works, be reinvigorated potentially. The International Film Business is super interesting right now, so it's a good time to have the CEO Constantine on the show. Oliver Bourbon, he's been with the company in various capacities for 30 years now. He's been running it since 2024, it's owned by the Swiss media conglomerate highlight communications. We're going to get into the franchise management business, especially on Resident Evil, how Kregger got involved, Constantine's unique participation in the Marvel movies and how a European studio stays relevant to Hollywood. From the regard pocket, I'm Matt Bellany and this is the town. Okay, we are here with Oliver Bourbon, who is CEO of Constantine Film and an executive producer of the new Resident Evil movie. Welcome Oliver. Hello Matt, thank you very much for having me. All right, this is one of our education episodes.

2:04I like doing these occasionally because I don't think we do enough about the international business and different aspects that people feel it, people the business feel like they know everything there is to know about the international film business and I don't think they do. I want to have someone who actually does know a lot about the international film business like yourself on the show to just kind of discuss the role that you guys play in the larger ecosystem, especially when it comes to US movies and especially when it comes to franchise management. And Resident Evil is a perfect example because we're going on what, 24 years of this franchise. 1997, I think we bought the rights from Japan, some Capcom, yeah. So yeah, let's get into this because let's go right into Resident Evil. Let's skip the whole background. Give us like, why does a German film distributor own the rights to a Japanese game that has now been adapted into eight live action movies?

3:07A good question. So when Bernd Eichinger, who founded the company in the early 90s, was, excuse me, in the early 80s, was still alive. He basically, his mission, his idea was to produce movies brought in the US and he did so. And I think in the mid 90s, our co-president of the LA branch, Robert Coulser, came into contact with Resident Evil as a video game. And he introduced it to Bernd. And so they were amazed by it. They took a plane flight to Japan to meet the Capcom guys, making business with Japan as a long business takes a long time. You got to drink sake and go in the sauna with them. Well, yeah, that also, I wasn't there at that time, but it was there a couple of times now in the last two years. So long story short, they bought the rights and we started the first movie, the first endeavor

4:08in the beginning of the 2000s. And the first international English language production of Resident Evil was actually shot in Germany in Berlin, even though it was an international production. And it was released globally by, well, except Germany and France. It was released by Sony already. So Sony's with us as a partner since day one. No, are they attached to it perpetually? No, they're not. Or is every movie has to be redone the rights? Yes, of course. And of course we always, you know, go to them first and introduce it to them. And as you said before, it's the eighth movie now. There's six movies that has been done throughout the time by the same director. Paul W. S. Anderson. Exactly, together with Milayovovic as the main actress, which was an amazing journey. And there was a single movie, number seven. And now this is like entering a complete new universe, a complete new set of the whole

5:10DNA of Resident Evil. So in each of these movies, we again went back to Sony and started discussions with them if they wanted or not. And I have heard that Sony initially was not interested in this one. And you confirm or deny that? Well, let me say, there were multiple people interested in this version. And that was not only because of Resident Evil, which was really nice, but most of all, of course, of Zekrega. Yeah. So give us the timeline here because it feels like you almost, I don't want to say lucked out, but you are the beneficiary of the fact that one of the hottest filmmakers out there happens to be a huge fan of this video game and really wanted to do a Resident Evil movie when he could probably do anything he wants right now. Exactly. Well, at that time, it wasn't that short. So let me get back. Let me take you back. Yeah.

6:11So the 2021 movie doesn't work. And you as the franchise manager, you say, okay, we're going to leave this alone for a little bit. Do TV, do whatever. And then when did you say, okay, it's time? That was basically exactly the fact since the other movies didn't work that well, I said, well, we have to wait a little longer to see where we can, and how we can, you know, re-manage this whole IP completely. So more or less by accident in that time, that is 23 to 24. Bebarians was out. Weapons was not out. Yeah, that was that Craig was first big movie. Exactly. Weapons was not out at that time. That Craig actually approached us together with Roy Lee. Roy Lee is the producer he works with. Exactly. He basically came to us to Robert and asked if this franchise, if this IP was available. And it was really strange because at that time, first of all, we were in that situation

7:13and we said, okay, we're going to leave it alone. We're going to need to find a completely new way on how to adapt this for the future. On the other hand, Zach just only came out of Bebarians. So it wasn't at all that everybody was jumping on it immediately. Yeah. Well, he was pretty hot after Barbarian. Exactly. And what was the real issue, the real point where we said, okay, we got to do this was actually his pitch. He came to the table and he had this idea in front of his head. He knew exactly what he wanted and he presented it to Robert in a cafe in Beverly Hills. And he knew the whole movie. He knew everything that he wanted to do. And it was so different from everything that we have done so far that we started digging into it. It was more moody, more like the game, more first person, less, you know, actress kicking ass. Well, it was more like he's a gamer.

8:15He loved playing the games. So he came to this from a completely new direction. He also didn't, at least he said that. He didn't saw any of the movies. He was probably into the games. So he said, okay, I have this idea of basically bringing this guy, this, you know, random normal guy that has no skills into the situation. Have them, you know, have him go throughout the story, get, you know, as in a video game, get better, get weapons, get more skills, whatever it is, and have him and the audience feel what they'd like to play that game. That was his take, basically, so a completely different, as he said before, from the action takes of the former movies. So you guys say we like this and then you shop the property with him attached to various studios. And what was the response? Well, it started a little different.

9:16So we said we liked it. And then we, we had the incredible chance of bringing PlayStation in to develop the script. So we started developing the scripts together with PlayStation, we're a fantastic partner from the one on this one. It was the first time that they came on board. So only from this one. So the first draft came in. We really loved it. That's surprising, if that's a Sony company. Well, I'm not going to get into that too far because obviously there's a lot of companies belonging to Sony and they're not, you know, always close attached. But here was the case that we started developing. The script also Zach knew from the very beginning that Austin should play that part. It wasn't, it was something that he had in his head. He knew him from weapons before. So he had him in his head. We really liked it. Then obviously because of Zach's former work and then weapons came out and you, you know, it went through the roof and everybody was really excited.

10:19Suddenly there was a lot of traction from many other studios at that point. Yeah, amazing. You hit everybody wants the next movie, but you had not signed yet with the distributor. No, of course we were talking to Sony. Oh, that's great leverage for you. Well, yeah, and we were talking to Sony at that point and at that point it was still unclear if we're going to do it or not. Yeah, because that's where I had heard the day initially pass. Well, I leave that to you. Okay. But I had an incredible great meeting when I started my CEO or internship of Constantine film. I had the first introductory meeting with Tom Rothman because we had a long term relationship between the companies already. And Sony pictures. Exactly. In that conversation, also, you know, obviously at the end, Resident Evil came up and I told him that we're pretty far long and he jumped immediately into it. All right. So he overruled his own people and said, we're doing this.

11:22I'm not saying that. I'm saying that. You're not saying that. I just said that we had a great creative communication about this. Also in general about Constantine having even being a much smaller European studio, having similar ties like Sony, not having an on-streamer being independent. So there was a lot of parallel discussions, very IP-driven from an IP standpoint that also incredibly great directors and writers can be IP. So through that conversation, we got to that point and he said, well, he definitely loves that Greg. He wants to do it. From that point on, it was clear. So how does the deal work on a movie like this? Do you, do you guys put up any part of the budget for a Resident Evil movie? So yes, we do. And we have another great partner since day one of that franchise, which is Metropolitan is a very big French distributor and producer Victor Hadidas, his name he's running to show.

12:30He's a partner with us since day one. So he's your money man and helps? No, for that reason, the two territories, France and Germany are carved out and of course they're financing partners of the whole show. Always has been. It's not a different situation now. So you put up how much of the budget? So we put up a decent amount of the budget. Like half? And like a third? No, no, no. You have to take it into account. Look at the whole world at all territories. And then you have two, then you have two major territories in Europe that are strong, the most strongest one. Okay, so it's a portioned to where you are releasing the film. Exactly. And by the way, that goes not only to that movie, it's because you were asking how we going to do this in the international business. This is basically how we do it. We have an IP, we produce it. We sell, if you do it on a market like TIFF now, you sell different territories here. We sold it completely to Sony, who became our partner, took taking over the whole world,

13:36must amassed it, excluding these two territories. So that's basically how it works. Okay, so it's a version of the international sales model, except Sony bought you out, except for the two territories that you guys are putting up money to release the movie in those territories. Exactly. How well do American romcoms and thrillers and horror movies perform in Germany? It's interesting, because it's, I mean, you mentioned different genres. Let me start with horror. So horror, unlike in the US, is not as big, especially when it gets to gory. If it's too gory, people are more afraid of it. If it gets more towards a directional thriller, they love it. So it's totally different if you compare it to the domestic, to the US. Yeah, Americans love the gory. They love it. It cannot be hard enough. I mean, I have to say that what you can see even in the past and now within Sidious and also some other titles last year, it is changing a little bit.

14:39So the younger, the very young audience, they adapt it. But if you look in general, I would still stay with my statement that the more gory you get, the more difficult it gets in Germany. On a romcom base, because you mentioned that as an example, it's different. Yeah, not that regretting you as a romcom. I do not, I know it's not. No, I know. But I know that's not what you mean. Could be. With like practical magic too. Let's, that is actually, that's not a romcom either. But no, I mean, let's say everything that's connected to comedy, German love that. And if it's American, if it's local, they're really in it. I know that the Germany is not known for its humor, but it's just the case. It's very Americanized. So really, that travels well. Everything towards that direction. Comedy is in David Hasselhoff. Oh, yeah, you bet. Especially when he's singing. Oh, yeah, that's right. Is that still a thing? Does he still have a singing career there? Well, I don't, well, the song is still, as you know, it was played up and down when

15:44the world came down. But there's a lot of historical influence together with David Hasselhoff and Germany. And it still stays that way. All right. Enough about David Hasselhoff. Let's get back to the IP management question. When you own or control this IP, how much influence do you have over the creative and the marketing plans and everything that the traditional studio typically handles? Well, it's, if I can answer, it's two things. One of it, let's take President Evil as an example. It's an IP. We own it. But it is an original IP as a game, franchise by Capcom. So you have to be true to that direction as well. You have to be actually true to all that. Do they have input? Not in a sense that they control, but of course you want to be true to it. Right. You don't want to piss off the fans. Exactly. You don't want to do that to the fans, but also you don't want to, you know, jeopardize a longstanding relationship. They have, as you know, other, other very good IPs.

16:45We did Monster Hunter, for example, with them together, also very big gaming IP. So to answer your question, that's the one thing you have to manage. Constantly, I'm traveling to Japan at least once or twice a year to talk to them, to explain them what we're doing. Not because I have to, but I think it's really important to keep them in the loop. And also, we want them, when the movies come out, they bring out new games. We want the correlation of both. So that's one thing. The fans is the other thing you said that. And the third part is that you said, of course, when Sony, you know, brings out this movie, releases this movie, their power of marketing press is huge and is amazing. And the very good thing is here, this specific case is, they know the IP. They know it for many years already. It's an advantage on the one hand. But it also can be a challenge because now, as you can see with Zeg Raga, you know, doing this completely new take on, on Resident Evil, you have to also change your whole,

17:52you know, direction of marketing and how to market a movie like that. Because there's no relationship to anything that has been with the IP so far. Well, but that's sort of my question, because when you are the controller of the IP and you are trying to do something new and interesting, I wonder if you have any guardrails or if you have any control, you know, the characters cannot do this or the marketing cannot go this direction. And whether, whether, or whether you just hand it off to the studio and the creative partner. No, it didn't. Well, first of all, when we hand it off, it's not like a one way street. They're always there. It's a very good, you know, collaboration constantly. But it's not just between us and you wanted to talk about the brand management idea. The management in my ideas, not so much of us as the producers just telling what we want, what we don't want. I think the more, you know, modern way of managing these IPs is bringing creative in.

18:53In this case, Zach, who really had an explicit idea of what he wants to tell and also not only on the movie side, but also when it gets to marketing. So even Sony heavily involved Zach in all the marketing ideas, not so much because of who he is, but more because he had this very unique, specific creative idea of how he wants to tell that story. So to answer your question, it was not just handed over in that. It was a great collaboration between Zach and his team, between the the constant marketing team and the marketing team in the US. Just to give you an example, the German marketing team of Constantine, film brought in the whole TikTok collaboration that we're doing with this show. You know, tons of other things are coming from the Sony side. So it's a really good collaboration on all different ends. And again, the good thing here is that we know the brand. We know the IP for a long time already. Do you have Craig or Sein for another one?

19:55If this works. I would love to have him two more movies with us, but he's not. But it's the one off. No, no, he's not signed, but maybe he'll get EP credits on follow ups, royally getting EP credits on follow ups. Again, before you get into that, the much more important question would be, does he has a great idea for follow ups? And to be honest, I think he does. Oh, trilogy. What do I know? I, of course, you're not, you're not going to shoot that down. Give me the overall picture of a company like Constantine. So your, your core business is exploiting these properties that you control and being a studio partner in the territories that you are expert in releasing films in, investing into certain movies to get those rights. And what else? What's the core? The modern European studio model these days.

20:56Plus what you just mentioned, also investing in the production itself, not just in the IP. So for us as Constantine films, the, the great thing here is that we have a local market in Europe that is a strong market compared to the rest of the world. I think it's number four. I'm not quite sure anymore. We are number one in that market already. So we have a strong market attached to everything that we're doing. And the core business model is basically divided into two pieces. One is the one that we're just talking about, the international part, where we have, you know, international IPs that we're working in on the US side, but also let's say on other European countries in, in, in the UK or in France. And then in addition to this, we have the local side, which is really strong. And if you compare it by percentage, I would say it's run about 60, 40 between European German domestic and US domestic. And the model is so far divided in these two chapters that you have a very strong footprint

22:01in your local market with local production. So the most important point for us is that we are, and we're trying to, we always number one in our local markets. And then with own production, with local language productions, it doesn't necessarily like in streaming, take streaming, for example, where you have, I don't know, local flow global, you have a local show that can exploit, that can over spill into other markets. On the cinematic side for us, we are focusing on our market on Germany, Austria, Switzerland, heavily, and just want the local and domestic productions to work there exceptionally well. And these days, if you can find a global audience on a streamer, all the better. Yeah, absolutely. But that enables us this, you know, the revenues that are coming in for these production on the, on the feature side, they enable us to invest internationally and domestically. But you have an Netflix deal, don't you? No, we have an output deal, though one is we had an Netflix deal, that's two.

23:01We have an output deal this, that started this year with HBO on the paved side. And on the, yeah, I know HBO just, just advertise some German show that they're bringing to the US for HBO Max. The reason for that is, and I'm pretty sure you know that, that HBO only in January went into other, a couple of other territories worldwide. Yeah, they're spreading HBO Max across the world, switching from the licensing model. And I imagine having local language stuff to promote. It's very important for them. Very big for them. Yes, so you guys probably want to, want a piece of that. It's, it's the same thing in the cinema market. If you look into the market, let's take Germany as an example, as an international market, the share of the local production there, if you take the whole 900 million euros, it was last year, close to 1.1 billion US dollars, 25 to 30% is local. So what's success for you? Like what is, what is the goal for a company like Constantine? How is your business changed and, and how are you adapting and what is like, what is,

24:05what is the future for you? Oh, well, that's a couple of questions and one. I know it is. I'm sorry. No, no, no, I'm fine. So to answer your first one, the success for us is to be able, as the only German company, having success on the international market in the future business. And that's a success we've, we're trying to do for the last 30 years and it's, it's doing well. And I hope we will have a chance to see it with residents. That's a number one goal. The other number one goal I would say is to stay put and keep the number one position on the domestic side. To answer your question here. Then the second part of your question was much more difficult because you were asking where's the, where's the whole business heading for? And I think that's, that's a much more difficult question. And I think what you can see what's happening in the US with the consolidation, that's something that for sure happens in Europe too now. It's always a little later. It's always mostly two to three years later. The merger is consolidation all that stuff. And obviously the, the local TV model is probably being upended there by the streamers

25:05too. I don't, I don't think there's a TV model anymore at some point. It's just streaming. There's no TV model anymore. But look at, for example, we talked about RTL, the merger between Sky and, and RTL in Germany is huge and Sky used to have all the HBO programs. So that goes over now to a taken away from Sky to HBO. But then again, with RTL and Sky being together, they're on the same heights kind of the same height than Netflix is. They're all for Disney already. It's a local streamer. So there's a lot of changes going on. Yeah. How is Netflix viewed in Germany? Big. No, I know they're big. But how are they viewed? What are producers like you and what do the audience think of Netflix? Well, it's different. I think it's a, it's a, for the audience, it's great. And it's big. And it's pivoting from the very young and mid-young audience more towards the older audience. You can see that also in Germany, heavily. For the producers, I think they're really heavily important.

26:08And I can tell you the reason. The problem that you have coming out of the discussion that we had about TV business is that the whole TV business is going down. You still have public television in Germany. That's something that is, and it's heavy. It's strong. Yeah, I just did a talk at the Edinburgh Film Festival, TV Festival about the impact on the BBC and the local commissions and all of that. And there's a version of that in Germany. Exactly. It's the same thing. ZDF is basically the BBC in Germany. So there's still partners there to produce. But if you look into the private sector at Pro7Cetyon or RTL, they are doing stuff but on a much lower level. So for the producers, it's essential having a player like Netflix on the local market being a strong partner. And they are. So for us, as partners, they're really strong. The same goes for Amazon. Amazon has the most subscribers, then it's Netflix, then it's RTL Sky and then it's Disney. So what is God's Deans relationship with the Marvel movies?

27:11I saw you have credits on Fantastic Four and some of the others. Is that just you release them in your territories and get a credit? But what's the relationship? We used to. No, not anymore. So the relationship is that we are partners on the Fantastic Four universe with Marvel. And the reason for that is that in the 80s, we bought the rights for the whole Fantastic Four universe and the Silver Square. And it's altogether, I think it's about more than 500 characters that are involved out of the Marvel. And the nice band from Disney hasn't shown up on your doorstep and said, we would like those rights back here and I have a sledgehammer in my car if you don't give them to us. Well, they didn't sledgehammer us yet, but they made a deal with us. And the reason for that is that we did three movies that we co-produced and called developed, but with Fox. When these movies were, these rights were still at Fox. So that were the times before Fox got bought by Disney. So we did three movies and then later on, of course, when Fox got bought by Disney, the whole Marvel universe was reunited.

28:14And then, of course, we were able to do a deal with Marvel to bring these rights back to them as well, because they're really doing a great job. Oh, so you now, you're out. They have acquired the rights back to you. Kind of. Yeah. I can go into the details. Oh, you have schmuck insurance. And you get a small piece. We cannot talk about the deal explicitly, but we're still working together with Disney. Okay. So you're rooting for Doomsday? Oh, yeah, we are, because Doom is one of the characters out of the Fantastic Four universe. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. Yeah, it's going to get flame for not knowing that. One of the villains. Okay. So Doom is a villain associated with Fantastic Four and falls under your right steel for that property. Talk to Doom is, yeah. Yeah. And obviously the Fantastic Four are in Doomsday. Of course, and they're in as well. Yes.

29:14So your rights go via that. Oh, well, congratulations. So you are like me. You are rooting for Avengers Doomsday. I have it in our box office draft. I'm so happy, man. I hope you will exceed your expectations that you put in your box office draft. Also why is the Berlin Film Festival in February? Like Jesus Christ. I know Germans are masochists, but I'm just not going to go to Berlin in February. Well, I'm trying to lure you to Berlin to show you the wonderful city. I just would prefer. Oh, I'm into Berlin. It's beautiful, but not in February. Have you been to Berlin in February? I have not. Because at Hollywood Reporter, I always had people that I could assign to go there when it's 10 degrees and you're standing in line for a premiere. I know. And you did, hopefully, because there's like minus 20 degrees. So it's really, really cold. I'm just saying, make it a little more accessible. And maybe I will go. I know. So here's the thing. I'm going to invite you. I'm going to try next, but now that we invite you and I can give you a reason because

30:15we have three. You were mentioning parties in Ken. I give you three parties that we're doing in Berlin. And you can choose. You can choose all three or just one of them. And I can promise you these are the best. OK. Wow. You've got my interest. I'm sure they've got the number one techno death DJs in the world. You don't have to go home. You just stay. All right. Well, Oliver, thanks for coming out. And good luck with the movie. Appreciate you being here. Thank you very much, Matt. Bye. We are back with the call sheet. Craig, have you ever seen the original practical magic? I have. Yes. Oh, you have. See, I have not. Oh, wow. I think this is more of a younger person thing. Came out in 98. Weirdly, did not do huge business. 46 domestic, 94 worldwide. No, this was a cult classic that was a DVD-blood movie by women at home. I watched it with my wife in like the last two years. It's a movie that she liked growing up. And it gets a bump every Halloween.

31:17It's one of those like the Hocus Pocus movies that get a huge lift on the streaming services around Halloween. This movie's tracking for 40 million this weekend. I was a little surprised by that. I know the star power, Sandra Bullock, Nicole Kibman, but I don't know. Seems hefty. And it's been there for weeks. They've been at that 40 number on NRG for like three or four weeks. Yeah. Sandra Bullock's first starring role since 2022 with the Lost City. Is that true? What about Bird Box? Was that before Bird Box before? That was before. And that was also Netflix. This is her first theatrical movie since 2022. Huh. And that movie did pretty well. It did do pretty well. She's still got a man. She's in that category of stars that matter. And unlike Nicole Kibman, she's not ubiquitous. Yeah. Lost City opened to 31 domestic in 2022. This movie feels like, I don't know, the concert to me, it's like freaky or Friday, but more elevated because it's bigger stars, but it's like legacy sequels from like a late

32:1890s. They hope it's devil wears Prada 2 that it comes like an event for women. Yeah, that's like the high end, but like early, it's late 90s female led in this like legacy sequel. Yes. So does that mean you're taking the over on 40? 40 feels kind of high. I think I'm going to I think I'm going to take the under two dudes talking about it. I think about this movie probably not ideal. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I still think that this movie opens to 35 million. I feel like that's still a huge win and it'll still do really well. It's an interesting one for Warner Brothers because this was a, the original was a village road show movie financed co-finance by village road show, which recently went through bankruptcy and Alcon and other film finance company bought the rights from village road show. So Alcon had the right to invest co-finance this movie. So Warner's even in success isn't going to get the full freight of this movie on the balance sheet, but I think this is going to work. I'm going to take the over on 40.

33:18The over on 40. My only fear is like this just feels, I wonder if this feels like a wait and see it at home type movie, but maybe we'll have a big opening weekend and all the fans will come out and it won't have as many legs. But 40 just feels a little high. So I think I'll take the under. Yeah, and the timing of the release suggests they're going to tee it up to put it on the service on Halloween. Yeah. But that would be because that would be about 45, 50 days. Yeah. So we'll see. All right. That's the show for today. I want to thank my guest Oliver Burbin, producer Craig Horbeck, Art of the Riz Jesse Lopez and stuff from the Sanchez. And I want to thank you. We'll see you next week from the Toronto Film Festival.